ChrisWeigant.com

Friday Talking Points -- Say It Ain't So, Joe!

[ Posted Friday, July 15th, 2022 – 17:51 UTC ]

And so, once again, we find ourselves in a very familiar place. Senator Joe Manchin has just yanked the rug out from under the lion's share of what he was supposedly negotiating in good faith with Senate Majority Leader Chuck Schumer (and the entire rest of the Democratic Party). Manchin let it be known that two of the biggest things he himself had said he was going to strongly support (in the pared-down version of President Joe Biden's Build Back Better plan) were suddenly verboten and off the table. In other words, Joe Manchin successfully wasted everyone's time -- once again -- for months on end.

Of course, he holds the power. With only 50 Democratic senators, he has proclaimed himself gatekeeper for any bill the Democrats wish to pass by reconciliation, and there's just no getting around it -- without his vote, nothing is going to pass, period. He cares not one whit for the Americans any of this would benefit, or for the political fortunes of the rest of his political party. All he seems to care about is being the center of attention, as many times as he can. And the rest of the Democrats don't have any choice but to allow him to play this egotistical game as many times as he wishes.

Manchin, previously, seemed not only on board with some of what was being discussed for the bill but actually gung-ho for such things as: rolling back the Trump tax cuts on the wealthiest taxpayers and giant corporations and actually doing something to combat climate change. That last one was always a little suspect, since Manchin actually makes tons of money off of coal mining and does represent West Virginia, but Manchin swore he was just concerned about little pieces of the plan -- like the plan to subsidize the purchase of electric cars, for instance. But now he's drawn a big line in the sand for both ideas, saying he cannot support any tax increases for anyone, and furthermore he can't support any action at all on climate change. Both of these are monstrous betrayals of what Manchin had previously said were his own priorities for the stripped-down bill.

What's left on table is a healthcare bill, and a limited one at that. Manchin now says (subject to change at the drop of a hat, of course) that he supports two things from the original list of Democratic priorities just on healthcare alone -- a small step towards letting Medicare negotiate lower drug prices, and a two-year continuation of the increased Obamacare subsidies (which, as we wrote earlier this week, are scheduled to disappear at the end of this year). Left off the table are other proposals to: close the Medicaid coverage gap (to cover those still left in the states that never expanded Medicaid coverage under Obamacare), subsidize home care for seniors and those with disabilities, and Bernie Sanders's idea to allow Medicare to cover vision, dental, and hearing aids. All of those will have to wait.

Granted, the two things Manchin still says he supports would be solid victories. Allowing Medicare to negotiate drug prices (even in very limited ways, to start) is something progressives have been fighting for -- for a very long time now. And extending the subsidies might mean 13 million Americans won't get letters in the mail in the upcoming weeks (before the midterm election) saying their health insurance is going to cost them hundreds of dollars more per month next year. Those are both worthy goals.

But it's hard not to wistfully think about what might have been. Universal pre-K schooling. Universal child care. Paid family leave. Tuition-free community college. The permanent expansion of the Child Tax Credit -- which, for the short time it existed, dropped child poverty to the tune of forty percent. To which we can now add: doing something meaningful about climate change, and taxing the uber-wealthy to pay for it all.

Other Democrats are furious with Manchin, as they have every right to be. But we'll save that for the awards portion of the program.

The other big political news of the week was the seventh episode of the public hearings of the House Select Committee investigating the January 6th insurrection attempt, which was just as riveting as all the rest of them have been. Liz Cheney, as usual, skewered Donald Trump both in her opening remarks and in her closing. She pointed out (for the assumed benefit of the Department of Justice) that Trump was not some impressionable child but instead a 76-year-old man, and that "willful blindness" of the law was no legal excuse at all. In her closing statement, she warned Trump about his attempts at witness intimidation (if not downright witness tampering) -- just like a prosecutor would, you know, to a mob boss.

The hearing then went about offering more proof that the events of that dark day were not some spontaneous thing, but instead were all premeditated and planned out by Trump and all his henchmen. We saw the first testimony from Pat Cipollone, heard about the "craziest meeting ever" in Trump's White House (which really is saying a lot, considering), heard how Trump's "be there will be wild" tweet was seen as a call to arms by all the rightwing militias, and heard from both a former high-ranking member of the Oath Keepers and an average guy who got swept up in Trump's Big Lie and blindly followed what Trump was asking him to do.

In other fallout from the investigation, Steve Bannon suddenly decided that it'd be fine for him to testify before the committee, after he got Trump to write him a letter withdrawing the non-existent "executive privilege" Bannon's been claiming. This was mostly seen as a desperation move to avoid going to trial on his contempt of Congress charge -- but the judge wasn't having any of it and jury selection will begin on Monday. Also, an old tape of Bannon surfaced where he fully admits -- days before the election -- that Trump intends to just declare himself the winner no matter what the results say:

What Trump's gonna do is just declare victory, right? He's gonna declare victory. But that doesn't mean he's a winner. He's just gonna say he's a winner. As it sits here today, at 10 or 11 o'clock, Trump's gonna walk in the Oval, tweet out, "I'm the winner. Game over. Suck on that."... More of our people vote early, [in] that [early-evening] count; theirs [are] vote-in mail. And so they're going to have a natural disadvantage. And Trump's going to take advantage of that. That's our strategy. He's going to declare himself a winner. We're going to have Antifa crazy, the media crazy, the courts are crazy. And Trump's gonna be sitting there mocking, tweeting shit out: "You lose. I'm the winner. I'm the king."... Also, if Trump is losing by 10 or 11 o'clock at night, it's gonna be even crazier.

He predicted this would all set off a "firestorm." This tape was recorded on October 31st (fittingly, the night ghouls supposedly walk the Earth), mere days before the election.

Other fallout: the Secret Service reportedly deleted a bunch of text messages from January 5th and 6th, but we'll deal with that one in the talking points. A former federal prosecutor with lots of experience in huge investigations and court cases took Merrick Garland to task for not being more aggressive in his approach to January 6th. And to top it all off, Trump leaked out that he's already made up his mind about running for president again, and that he is strongly considering making his official announcement before the midterms -- which most people assume is because he is getting more and more frightened that he's going to have to actually pay a legal price for his many crimes against the country.

There was other political news this week, but none of it rose to the level of the hearing or what Manchin just announced.

President Joe Biden is in Saudi Arabia, after visiting Israel on a Middle East trip. Jill Biden had a gaffe of her own, and immediately apologized.

Biden scored a victory this week, as his nominee for the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives was confirmed by the Senate, only the second one to make it through since the position became Senate-confirmable.

John Bolton admitted this week that he helped plan a few coups d'état -- "not here but, you know, other places" while he was in government. When asked, he mentioned an attempted coup in Venezuela that failed and hinted at more.

A mile-long convoy of 52 yellow school buses with 4,368 empty seats -- the number of children who have died from gun violence in just the past two years alone drove by the house of Senator Ted Cruz in protest. It was organized by the gun-control group Change The Ref, and billed itself the "N.R.A. Children's Museum" project.

And we're going to end by spacing out a little bit, because it has been that kind of a week. First, the House of Representatives just passed a bill which would create an official federal government channel for reporting U.F.O. sightings. No word on whether Fox Mulder will be hired to be the first director, however.

And finally, some news that doesn't concern politics at all, but which is amazing and astounding for all humankind and thus deserves pointing out. If you haven't done so already, take the time to check out the first-ever photos from the new Webb space telescope. They will make your jaw drop in amazement. They are far better than even the Hubble photos. The telescope is now safely parked in an extended orbit a million miles from Earth (four times the distance to the moon) and will start providing mind-blowing images like the first ones on a regular basis from now on. So there's that to look forward to!

 

Most Impressive Democrat Of The Week

Our awards choices this week were kind of lopsided, since we had an absolute plethora to choose from for the Most Impressive Democrat Of The Week award, but only one lone candidate for the Most Disappointing Democrat Of The Week.

As a result, we've got quite a few Honorable Mention awards to hand out before we get to this week's MIDOTW.

First, an amusing one. The Democratic Senate candidate in Pennsylvania, John Fetterman, has already been having lots of fun at his opponent's expense. Over the July 4th weekend, he hired a plane to tow a banner reading: "Hey Dr. Oz: Welcome Home To N.J.! [heart icon] John." He hired the plane to fly over New Jersey beaches, in what he boasted was "aerial trolling!!!!" [A lot of people in Pennsylvania head to the New Jersey beaches for holidays, it is worth mentioning.]

Then he released an ad featuring Jersey Shore star Snooki, who records paid Cameo videos (reportedly for $3,500 a pop), wishing "Mehmet" good luck in job hunting in Pennsylvania, but that "it's only temporary" and "you'll be back home in Jersey soon!" It is unclear, from the video, whether Snooki was... well, snookered into cutting a political ad without realizing it. Maybe she was in on the joke, maybe she wasn't, but the video is still hilarious and continues to hammer Mehmet "Dr." Oz on his weakest point: he truly is a New Jersey resident who just carpetbagged his way across the Delaware River. Look for Fetterman to come up with all sorts of amusing ways to point this out in his campaign, but so far he's off to a pretty good start.

Two groups in the state of Michigan deserve a nod here. The first is the organizers behind getting a referendum on November's ballot which would codify some commonsense voting rules. The new measure would: guarantee at least nine days of early voting, expand the use of drop boxes, allow people who forgot their IDs to vote by signing an affidavit, allow early voters to feed their ballots into voting machines themselves, prevent lawmakers from enacting voting limits or interfering with the right to vote, bar voter intimidation, allow a voter to permanently request absentee ballots for all elections, allow voters to track their ballots electronically, give absentee ballot envelopes pre-paid postage, only allow election officials to audit the vote, and require election officials to certify results based only on election results. That is beyond impressive, you have to admit. Don't just solve one or two problems, solve them all in one fell swoop! The group turned in almost 670,000 signatures, and they only need 425,000, so there's a pretty good chance it'll make it on November's ballot. And four years ago, Michigan voters approved a measure (by 2-1) to let people register to vote anytime and made no-excuse absentee voting available, so there's a pretty good chance it'll pass, too.

But that's not the only ballot initiative good news from Michigan, because another group (Reproductive Freedom For All) submitted 750,000 signatures (after striking off 150,000 that seemed questionable) for a referendum on legalizing abortion in the state. It's an effort to codify Roe v. Wade at the state level, in other words. So the Michigan election may wind up being one of the most interesting in the country, come November, but both signature-collecting groups certainly deserve an Honorable Mention for their success.

Speaking of abortion rights, Pennsylvania's house minority leader, Joanna McClinton, gave a fiery speech to her chamber this week, in which she tore into those without uteruses to stop taking away rights from those who did: "We're talking about half the population not being able to make decisions when not even half of this body has a uterus!" And that's just her getting warmed up. The whole clip is only a minute long, and will make you want to stand up and cheer. Joanna McClinton tells it like it is, in a way rarely heard inside a statehouse chamber.

And one last Honorable Mention before we get to the main award. From the House Select Committee on January 6th hearing this week, Representative Stephanie Murphy deserves mention, for her closing remarks. She pointed out quite poignantly that her family fled Vietnam when a new regime seized power by using violence, and that she has now experienced a mob trying to do the same thing here, as a sitting member of Congress. Her point of view was welcome and worth hearing, since only an immigrant to America's shores would have this personal comparison to relate.

But our Most Impressive Democrat Of The Week will be awarded posthumously. Because for the first time in American history, the U.S. Capitol's National Statuary Hall now has an official, state-sponsored statue of a Black person. That's right -- up until now, there haven't been any. Rosa Parks did get a statue, but it wasn't one of the ones from the states.

Civil rights leader Mary McLeod Bethune replaced a statue of one of the last Confederate generals to surrender after the Civil War -- a man who fled to Mexico fearing treason charges. Here is her story:

[Mary McLeod] Bethune was born in South Carolina in 1875, seven years after the ratification of the 14th Amendment, with its guarantee of equal protection under the law for all in the United States. She died in 1955, having helped to lay the groundwork for the civil rights movement.

"To have her statue here is quite phenomenal, absolutely, as a reminder of what our democracy is about," said granddaughter Evelyn Bethune.

Mary McLeod Bethune is perhaps most remembered for founding the school now known as Bethune-Cookman University in Daytona Beach, Florida, which she started as a girls school in 1904. She also was one of the founders of the United Negro College Fund, which became a financial backbone for predominantly Black higher institutions nationwide.

After forming a strong friendship with Eleanor Roosevelt, Bethune became director of the Negro Affairs Division for the National Youth Administration, a New Deal-era program.

Bethune led the "Black Cabinet" of President Franklin D. Roosevelt as the highest-ranking Black government official, pushing him to diversify the defense industry and later helping draft President Harry Truman's executive order desegregating the armed forces, said Ashley Robertson Preston at Howard University, a Bethune biographer.

"She was the Oprah of her time. She was the Booker T. Washington of her time. She was the Martin Luther King of her time," Preston said.

. . .

The white marble statue shows Bethune in academic robes, holding a black rose. She endearingly called her students "black roses," Preston said, after visiting a garden in Europe where she saw black roses growing among the yellows and reds.

Books stacked at the statue's feet are inscribed with some of the core values from her last will and testament: love, hope, faith, racial dignity, a thirst for education, courage and peace.

That's all pretty impressive, you've got to admit. It's also impressive that Florida (of all places!) became the first state in the Union to sponsor a statue of a Black person for the National Statuary Hall Collection. What we find inexcusable is that it took until the year 2022 for a Black person to be so honored.

[Since this is what we believe is our first posthumous award, we should state the obvious: there is no contact information for Mary McLeod Bethune, but we would encourage everyone to do an internet search on her name, just to learn how impressive an individual she truly was.]

 

Most Disappointing Democrat Of The Week

There can be only one. Senator Joe "Say It Ain't So, Joe" Manchin is without a shadow of a doubt the Most Disappointing Democrat Of The Week. We find that we cannot improve on the words of one of Manchin's congressional colleagues, Representative Jared Huffman of California. Upon hearing the news of Manchin's evisceration of the already-eviscerated reconciliation bill, Huffman had this to say:

It is a gut punch but not a surprise. Anyone who understands who Mr. Manchin is, where he gets his wealth, what he actually cares about, can't really be surprised. It's nevertheless a huge blow to climate activists, to the majority of Americans who are demanding bold action on the most important existential issue of our time. And I hope they understand that this is one man. This is not the Democratic Party. This is one very corrupted, compromised man who was probably never going to be part of the solution, despite this tease that we've all been exposed to, on and off, for the better part of a year.

That pretty much says it all.

Thanks for nothing, Joe.

[Contact Senator Joe Manchin on his Senate contact page, to let him know what you think of his actions.]

 

Friday Talking Points

Volume 669 (7/15/22)

These cover a couple of different subjects this week, with one towards the end that got a little out of hand (but we felt it was necessary to include all the quotes).

In any case, as usual, enjoy and use responsibly.

 

1
   The party of forced birth for 10-year-old girls

This is already causing the Republicans some consternation, apparently because many of them just fail to admit the reality of what they are doing. Democrats need to make it crystal clear.

"The Republican Party is now the party of forced birth. Forced birth for all pregnant women, no matter what their circumstance, no matter what they freely wish to do. That freedom is being dismantled by Republican legislatures across the country right now, in fact. The Republican Party doesn't want to admit it, but they seem to want to inhabit some fantasyland where the laws they pass don't actually have real-life consequences for innocent people. But they do. A 10-year-old girl was repeatedly raped and got pregnant as a result, in the state of Ohio. She was forced to travel to Indiana to get an abortion, because she was a few days past the six weeks that Ohio now allows. The Republican Party is now the party of forced birth for a 4th-grade student, who may have been raped when she was only nine years old. That is what their new laws are already doing. What sane person on Earth wants to force a 10-year-old girl -- a child, herself -- to give birth? Republicans do. First they lied about the existence of this victim. Then when it was proved that her story was true, they instead attacked the abortion provider for doing her legal job. Or insisted that somehow an abortion for a 10-year-old wasn't really 'an abortion' (which is patent nonsense). Or just said she should enjoy 'the benefit of having the child.' Ohio Republicans somehow insisted that the law has some magic loophole which would have allowed her to get an abortion in Ohio -- but they are lying. The law does not have such a loophole. This is the post-Roe world Republicans are bringing us. Forcing 4th-graders to give birth against their wishes. The Republican Party can try to dodge the issue however they want, but in reality they are now the party of forced birth for 10-year-old rape victims."

 

2
   Your papers, please?

Republicans aren't going to stop at their own borders, either.

"A Republican senator just blocked a bill which would have protected the right of American citizens to freely travel from state to state to do whatever they wished -- including getting an abortion -- by insisting that the law was somehow unnecessary. 'No state has banned interstate travel for adult women seeking to obtain an abortion. This seems to be just trying to inflame, to raise what-ifs,' Senator James Lankford said, while conveniently ignoring the fact that Republicans are already considering passing such laws in various states. How do they think this is going to work? Pregnancy tests for all women at their state borders? Internal passports, just like the Soviet Union used to have? The bill proposed would have guaranteed none of that ever happens, but Republicans blocked it -- because they are already trying to figure out how to make it happen."

 

3
   Abortion becoming more important to voters

Have some polling numbers ready, to more effectively scare Republican politicians.

"Abortion rights are popular with the majority of the American public. A full 74 percent of the public does not support banning all abortions -- 61 percent of them 'strongly.' Only 17 percent support the idea. And 60 percent of voters oppose bans even when they include an exception for the life of the mother. FiveThirtyEight just showed that this issue is the fastest-growing issue to voters, too. It now ranks as voters' fourthmost concern, and up 10 points since the Dobbs decision was handed down. Thirdmost was the 'political extremism or polarization' of the parties, which is another aspect of the Draconian laws Republicans are proposing or have already enacted. Democrats everywhere need to stand up strong for abortion rights, and make the Republicans pay at the ballot box this November!"

 

4
   Kavanaugh wants right to privacy after all

Speaking of the right to privacy....

"Supreme Court Justice Brett 'Fratboy' Kavanaugh went to dinner at a steakhouse. A bunch of citizens showed up outside (not even inside) to protest. Even though he reportedly couldn't even see or hear the protesters, Kavanaugh snuck out the back alley (bitter pun intended). Some on the right began immediately whining about his supposed right to eat dinner in peace. This right is not actually enumerated in the Constitution, however. And Kavanaugh is on record as not believing a right to privacy exists, either, as many were happy to point out online. And as Pete Buttigieg also pointed out, on Fox News:"

As long as I've been alive, settled case law in the United States has been that the Constitution protected the right to privacy. And that has now been thrown out the window by justices, including Justice Kavanaugh, who as I recall swore up and down in front of God and everyone, including the United States Congress, that they were going to leave settled case law alone.... Protesting peacefully outside in a public space -- sure. Look, I can't even tell you the number of spaces, venues, and scenarios where I've been protested.

 

5
   Just makin' stuff up

Burning down (your own) house?

"A man in Minnesota was just charged with federal wire fraud, filing fake insurance claims, and using online fundraisers to fleece people of their money, after an incident in September of 2020. The man said someone set his camper on fire, and that he had seen three people running from his house. He said it was because he was flying a pro-Trump flag, and his garage was spray-painted with 'Biden 2020' and 'BLM' and an anarchy symbol. The fire spread to the garage and burned it down too, totalling three vehicles inside it. He then not only filed a $300,000 claim on his insurance, but he also raked in $17,000 from a GoFundMe plea. But he was charged this week with making the entire thing up and committing the arson himself, to defraud as much money as he could from both the insurance company and random strangers. You can kind of excuse him for thinking: 'With all the grifting Trump does to his fanbase, why not dip into that moneypot myself?' Seems about par for the course, really."

 

6
   No laughing matter

While some of what happens on the right is amusing, much of it is deadly serious. This one is really too long for a talking point, we will admit, but it was so important that we had to include all the quotes.

"When the former Oath Keeper media director testified to the House Select Committee on January 6th earlier this week, he raised the alarm as clearly as he could. He warned us all that the capacity for violence is out there and probably going to happen again. He said, quote: 'We need to stop mincing words and just talk about truths and what it was going to be was an armed revolution.... There was a gallows set up in front of the Capitol.' An expert who has studied political violence in other countries also had some stark warnings, in an interview with the Washington Post this week. She did not mince words either:"

We know from other countries that have descended into really serious political violence that this is a trajectory, and we're on it. We're actually pretty far advanced on it.

"When asked what the House Select Committee needed to show the country, she responded:"

They need to show how the GOP is using organized militias. They also need to show that political violence is much more mainstream now. The types of people committing political violence on the right are no longer criminal demographics.

The kinds of violence we’re seeing at political events -- Jan. 6 and so on -- the majority of people are older men, they're married, they have children, they have jobs. Often white-collar jobs.

Americans need to realize that paramilitary groups could become a normal part of our political life. We could start seeing it becoming vastly less safe to exercise freedom of speech and assembly. It's already much less safe than just a handful of years ago.

The fact that political violence is going to start affecting everyday people's lives needs to get demonstrated. Americans need to understand that you can't just keep your head down, stay out of politics and avoid what's happening.

You're not going to be able to hide from it.

 

7
   Time for the U.S.S.S. to testify!

If proven true, this is flat-out unforgivable. People should be fired, in other words.

"It was revealed this week that the United States Secret Service was asked by the Department of Homeland Security's inspector general to preserve all communications surrounding the January 6th insurrection. But even after this had been requested, they went ahead and deleted a whole bunch of text messages sent on both January 5th and January 6th. The inspector general noted that the erasures were part of a pattern of resistance to January 6th inquiries. The Secret Service denied the charge -- just like they denied the incident in the presidential car where Donald Trump reportedly lunged for the steering wheel. I would say that it's high time the House Select Committee call in all the Secret Service agents and higher-ups and ask them quite a few pointed questions, because we obviously need some answers from them."

-- Chris Weigant

 

Follow Chris on Twitter: @ChrisWeigant

Cross-posted at: Democratic Underground

 

145 Comments on “Friday Talking Points -- Say It Ain't So, Joe!”

  1. [1] 
    Elizabeth Miller wrote:

    When will Dems understand who Manchin is?

  2. [2] 
    MtnCaddy wrote:

    The J6C, DoJ (and just how many Repug Congresscritters will be implicated) hasn't played out. We don't know what inflation will be like in the months. This is why I haven't been sweating inflation and Joe's low numbers.

    Sports fans, we're only in the 4th inning -- there's a lot of baseball left to play!

  3. [3] 
    ListenWhenYouHear wrote:

    If proven true, this is flat-out unforgivable. People should be fired, in other words.

    Yes, they should be fired...and then immediately arrested for destruction of evidence and obstruction of justice.

    Republicans went crazy when Hillary's staff had followed department procedures and destroyed old cell phones a year BEFORE they subpoenaed to turn them over. The SS did not destroy their phones hard drives until AFTER they were told to turn them over!

  4. [4] 
    nypoet22 wrote:

    @cw,

    thank you for sharing those webb telescope images. absolutely amazing stuff, especially in the side by side comparison with the same areas taken by the hubble.

    JL

  5. [5] 
    nypoet22 wrote:

    anyone looking for conspiracy theories can consider the sudden and unexpected death of donald's first wife, ivana trump, due to a fall at home [scare-quotes removed before posting], just days before her three children were due to give depositions in a new york civil investigation into their businesses.

    i'm not saying the events are necessarily connected, but...

    That's also rather convenient, isn't it, Mr. Dufresne?

    Since I am innocent of this crime, sir, I find it decidedly inconvenient...

    ~the shawshank redemption

  6. [6] 
    MtnCaddy wrote:

    [5]

    Dunno, poet. I'm not saying a little alarm didn't sound in my head at the time I learned of Ivana's death. But I had no idea the kiddies were about to testify.

    (thinking)

    I think Don Trump may have lost his leverage over the kids if Momma's already dead beforehand, though.

  7. [7] 
    MtnCaddy wrote:

    Chalk up yet another aspect of crime that the Donald isn't very good at.

  8. [8] 
    Michale wrote:

    Russ,

    And what lasting things did President Trump accomplish?

    The American Embassy in the Israeli capitol of Jerusalem...

    The Abraham Accords..

    Just to name 2...

    Many of the things that President Trump did that was good were reversed by Biden's Handlers and Democrats.

    Which is why almost *NINETY PERCENT* of Americans (INCLUDING A MAJORITY OF DEMOCRATS) feel that Democrats are fraking up this country.. That this country is headed in the WRONG direction...

    That's what *YOUR* Democrats have accomplished, Russ..

    Things were SOOO much better during the President Trump administration..

    THIS is FACT...

  9. [9] 
    Michale wrote:

    MC,

    We don't know what inflation will be like in the months.

    BBBBWWAHAHAHAAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHA

    And yer STILL beating that poor dead equine, eh MC?? :eyeroll:

    You REALLY need to lay off the bong pipe and come to grips with reality...

  10. [10] 
    Michale wrote:

    "It was revealed this week that the United States Secret Service was asked by the Department of Homeland Security's inspector general to preserve all communications surrounding the January 6th insurrection. But even after this had been requested, they went ahead and deleted a whole bunch of text messages sent on both January 5th and January 6th. The inspector general noted that the erasures were part of a pattern of resistance to January 6th inquiries. The Secret Service denied the charge -- just like they denied the incident in the presidential car where Donald Trump reportedly lunged for the steering wheel. I would say that it's high time the House Select Committee call in all the Secret Service agents and higher-ups and ask them quite a few pointed questions, because we obviously need some answers from them."

    That's funny...

    Ya'all weren't upset when Hillary deleted 33 THOUSAND emails that she was required BY LAW to preserve...

    NOW you are upset by a few deleted text messages???

    And to believe there are SOME people (I am looking at you Speak2) who think that Democrats are not hypocritical.. :eyeroll:

    Hypocrisy... It's not a bug in Democrat programming... It's a feature.

    :eyeroll:

  11. [11] 
    Michale wrote:

    Do ya'all want to know how frak'ed yer Democrats are in the head??

    Lia Thomas nominated by University of Pennsylvania for NCAA 'Woman of the Year' award

    The NCAA award for which former University of Pennsylvania swimmer Lia Thomas is in place to recognize 'female student-athletes'
    https://www.foxnews.com/sports/lia-thomas-nominated-university-pennsylvania-ncaa-woman-year-award

    First off, Democrats don't even know what a woman is, so how can they give a woman an award??

    Secondly, Democrats actually nominate a GUY as their "Woman Of The Year"...

    BBBWWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

    Democrats are well and truly frak'ed in the head...

  12. [12] 
    Michale wrote:

    Hypocrisy, thy name is RUSS...

    Yes, they should be fired...and then immediately arrested for destruction of evidence and obstruction of justice.

    And Hillary and her deleted 33,000 emails that she was REQUIRED BY LAW to retain??

    Of course, you were PERFECTLY OK with that, eh Russ???

    :eyeroll:

    Hypocrisy... It's not a bug in Democrat programming... It's a feature.

  13. [13] 
    Michale wrote:

    Massive 21-car pileup in Montana leaves at least 6 dead: 'Mass casualty crash'

    Montana Gov. Greg Gianforte confirmed the “mass casualty crash,” encouraging people to pray for the victims
    https://www.foxnews.com/us/dead-montana-massive-car-pileup-mass-casualty-crash

    WE MUST BAN ASSAULT-CARS!!!!!

    :eyeroll:

  14. [14] 
    Michale wrote:

    who as I recall swore up and down in front of God and everyone, including the United States Congress, that they were going to leave settled case law alone....
    -Pete Buttgig

    Why is it that Democrats have to BLATANTLY LIE to make their BS point???

    Justice Kavanaugh said NOTHING of the sort....

    Democrats.. Nothing but bullshit spews from their mouths and fingers..

    :eyeroll:

  15. [15] 
    Michale wrote:

    And to believe there are SOME people (I am looking at you Speak2) who think that Democrats are not hypocritical.. :eyeroll:

    Speaking of Speak2... Where has he been??? :D

  16. [16] 
    Michale wrote:

    OK, now lets hear from a Democrat Water Carrier

    The Democrats’ Failure Is Complete

    Joe Biden once dreamed of an FDR-size domestic-reform agenda. But the collapse of negotiations in Congress on the compromise of the compromise of that agenda will ensure he achieves nothing of the sort — not Roosevelt-size, not Obama-size, nor even Clinton-size. (Bill Clinton managed to increase taxes on the rich, expand the Earned Income Tax Credit, and create a health-care benefit for poor children.) In addition to losing its chance to address any domestic social need in an enduring way, the administration is also having imperiled its global leadership on climate change and a global corporate minimum tax, two measures that hinged on Biden getting his own country’s house in order.

    At the same time, by realistic or even minimal standards of performance, this two-year term, almost certain to be the last period of Democratic-controlled government for the foreseeable future, has been a failure. The ramifications of this defeat — political, economic, and ecological — will reverberate.
    https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/opinion/the-democrats-failure-is-complete/ar-AAZCfsO?cvid=81b1813f140646e6b3c1bff40b6ecdde

    Even Democrat Water Carriers are pointing out how badly Democrats have failed..

    Democrats have a LOCK on government....

    And they FAIL at every turn...

    So typical...

  17. [17] 
    Elizabeth Miller wrote:

    Joshua,

    Would you like to reconsider the quote you used in [5]? :)

  18. [18] 
    Michale wrote:

    MBS says Saudi Arabia cannot greatly increase oil production

    Prince Mohammed bin Salman says Saudi Arabia is almost tapped out on increasing oil production.

    The Saudi prince said that they will not have the capacity to produce beyond 13 million barrels per day.

    According to the US Energy Information Administration, the country is currently producing approximately 10,211,000 barrels of crude oil per day.
    https://www.foxnews.com/live-news/biden-middle-east-trip

    Saudi Leader tells Biden's Handlers to go frak himself...

    And Biden's Handlers/Democrat FAILURE....

    Is anyone surprised at all??

    All Democrats know how to do is FAIL...

    "Failed... Failed... IMPRESSIVELY failed..."
    -NASA Doctor, ARMAGEDDON

    President Trump's Energy Independent America is looking a LOT better than the 3rd World Shithole America that Biden's Handlers and Democrats have created... :eyeroll:

  19. [19] 
    Elizabeth Miller wrote:

    In reality, the House of Saud NEEDS America.

  20. [20] 
    Elizabeth Miller wrote:

    I'd be at this all week and twice on Sundays ... ahem ... if I wanted to set the entire record straight but, that really isn't necessary, anyways, as anyone who matters can see what is going on here, number one ... and, number two ... it is a gloriously sunny day today, so ... I'm outta here! :)

  21. [21] 
    Michale wrote:

    In reality, the House of Saud NEEDS America.

    Assumes facts not in evidence...

  22. [22] 
    nypoet22 wrote:

    @liz [17],

    no.

  23. [23] 
    Elizabeth Miller wrote:

    You think innocence abounds in the Trump family, then ...

  24. [24] 
    ListenWhenYouHear wrote:

    Of course, you were PERFECTLY OK with that, eh Russ???

    I am OK with it. Hillary's staff destroyed their old hard drives per State Dept. policy when they received new phones. A year later, Republicans demanded they turn over those hard drives knowing that they no longer existed.

    Trump's people were ordered to turn over their phones and ignored that order. They then destroyed their phones to prevent the evidence from their phones from being reviewed. Criminal intent.

    That you cannot see the difference between Hillary's case and Trump's -- you clearly can see the difference, you continue to willfully ignore any thing Trump does wrong like a good cult follower -- is just further proof of your lack of law enforcement experience.

  25. [25] 
    ListenWhenYouHear wrote:

    R: And what lasting things did President Trump accomplish?

    M: The American Embassy in the Israeli capitol of Jerusalem...

    The Abraham Accords..

    Just to name 2...

    I guess I should have been clearer in my question:

    And what lasting things that benefit Americans did President Trump accomplish?

    The first one benefits Americans how exactly?

    The second one was an agreement to do what was already happening before they signed the accord. Yeah, that one really rocked the ME! Didn't do anything to help the Palestinians in Israel, but who cares about them, right?

    Thinking back to it, I guess President Trump did accomplish some things:

    Trump made it clear that the DOJ needs to rethink it's policy that a sitting President is above the law while in office.

    Trump also showed us that Impeachment should not be counted on to make sure that a President is held accountable for their actions.

    The Founding Fathers assumed that members of Congress would be loyal to the Constitution over their political party... and the GOP showed that was a huge mistake!

  26. [26] 
    nypoet22 wrote:

    @Liz[23],

    No.

  27. [27] 
    nypoet22 wrote:

    i seriously doubt any of them are so depraved that they'd kill their own mother to delay testifying. Although, i wouldn't necessarily put it past some of the less savory characters in the trump orbit to arrange an "accident" if they thought their names might come up during testimony.

  28. [28] 
    ListenWhenYouHear wrote:

    CW,

    While Joe Manchin does deserve our scorn, we shouldn't have to rely on every Democrat toeing the party line to get laws passed. There are NO Republicans that can think for themselves? None of them would have supported this legislation if Trump would have pushed for it?

    This is good legislation that benefits the majority of Americans. This single criteria is what determines whether Republicans will vote for a piece of legislation. If a Democrat is President, they will vote against it regardless of the consequences to their constituents and this nation. They seek to allow Americans to suffer as much as possible in the hope that voters will choose them in the next election in the hopes that THEY will fix things.

  29. [29] 
    ListenWhenYouHear wrote:

    That's funny...

    Ya'all weren't upset when Hillary deleted 33 THOUSAND emails that she was required BY LAW to preserve...

    NOW you are upset by a few deleted text messages???

    So then you agree with me that they should be prosecuted, is that it?

    You were so up in arms screaming bloody murder over Hillary's actions, so you are still of the belief that these actions constitute a crime, right?

    I mean, if not, you are just laughing at yourself.

  30. [30] 
    Elizabeth Miller wrote:

    of course, I was talking about innocence, generally speaking and definitely NOT about Ivana!

  31. [31] 
    Elizabeth Miller wrote:

    but, i wasn't very clear about that, i see ...

  32. [32] 
    Elizabeth Miller wrote:

    and, who knows, the movie may be a family favourite!

  33. [33] 
    Michale wrote:

    I am OK with it. Hillary's staff destroyed their old hard drives per State Dept. policy when they received new phones. A year later, Republicans demanded they turn over those hard drives knowing that they no longer existed.

    And, if I was talking about the destruction of the HDs you would have a point.

    But I am not, so you don't..

    Why is it you always argue points I am not making??

    Is it because you can't argue the points I *AM* making??

    Yea, definitely..

    Trump's people were ordered to turn over their phones and ignored that order.

    Hillary was required by law to save ALL emails.. She ignored the law..

    They then destroyed their phones to prevent the evidence from their phones from being reviewed. Criminal intent.

    And you claim to be shacking up with a cop??

    BBWBWHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

    That you cannot see the difference between Hillary's case and Trump's -- you clearly can see the difference, you continue to willfully ignore any thing Trump does wrong like a good cult follower -- is just further proof of your lack of law enforcement experience.

    The fact that you see a difference proves you are a cop-hating hypocritical Democrat..

    :eyeroll:

    So then you agree with me that they should be prosecuted, is that it

    Are you agreeing that Hillary should be prosecuted??

    You were so up in arms screaming bloody murder over Hillary's actions, so you are still of the belief that these actions constitute a crime, right?

    If you are saying that destroying 33 THOUSAND emails required by law to be retained is the same as a few txt messages that had no bearing on anything...

    Then you are stoopider than I thought.. And you have proven that you are pretty stoopid... :D

  34. [34] 
    Michale wrote:

    If a Democrat is President, they will vote against it regardless of the consequences to their constituents and this nation.

    And Democrats did the exact same thing for the exact same reason when there was a Republican POTUS..

    So, what's yer point??

    They seek to allow Americans to suffer as much as possible in the hope that voters will choose them in the next election in the hopes that THEY will fix things.

    At least you admit that Democrats caused so much damage as to NEED fixing..

    I accept your concession..

    But yes... The American people will vote Democrats out of office and hand control of Congress over to the GOP..

    And the GOP will fix things that you concede need fixing..

    Just like the SCOTUS fixed a lot of things that needed fixing.. :D

    And the SCOTUS has a lot more fixing to do next term.. :D

    It's gonna be grand.. :D

  35. [35] 
    Michale wrote:

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FXzyOqaUYAcgSnB?format=jpg&name=small

    BBBWWAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

    Adolph Trudeau is going for the DUMB AND DUMBER look.. :D

    How fitting...

  36. [36] 
    nypoet22 wrote:

    And Democrats did the exact same thing for the exact same reason when there was a Republican POTUS..

    That's not the case, for two reasons. The first is that Republicans have much more discipline/purity in their legislation. They haven't permitted compromise, so there's nothing in their legislation that anyone left of Joe Manchin would vote for, no matter who the president was. The second reason is the Republicans just haven't seen much of the white House in recent years, And during those periods where Republicans have been president there have been wars, pandemics, financial crises and natural disasters, so they've had fewer overall chances. In Bush's first term many Dems actually did vote with him, it's just been awhile.

  37. [37] 
    ListenWhenYouHear wrote:

    If you are saying that destroying 33 THOUSAND emails required by law to be retained is the same as a few txt messages that had no bearing on anything...

    So were all of the nearly 32,000 emails (not 33,000 as Trump keeps asserting, but who’s counting?) that were supposedly deleted gone forever? Well, the FBI was able to find more than 17,000 of them and determined that a “substantial number” are duplicates of emails that had already been turned over to the State Department.

    The State Department has reviewed about 15,000 of the emails and determined that more than 9,400 were purely personal and will not be released and that another 5,600 are probably work-related and will be made public in the weeks before the election.

    As a result, we find Trump’s claim that Clinton and/or her staffers deliberately destroyed emails after they were subpoenaed to be false.

    Trump destroyed actual government documents all the time. He complained about how weak toilets are because it takes like 20 flushes to get rid of the documents he was trying to destroy. He has boxes of documents at his Mar Lardo home that he wasn't supposed to remove from the White House. Your heartfelt concern for record retention is noted.

    You say that the messages on the SS phones were nothing. So why commit the crime for "nothing"?

  38. [38] 
    Michale wrote:

    JL

    That's not the case, for two reasons.

    Bullshit...

    President Trump's administration.. Democrats did the EXACT same thing that Russ is whining about...

  39. [39] 
    Michale wrote:

    Your heartfelt concern for record retention is noted.

    As was yours when Hillary destroyed 33,000 emails..

    Face reality, Russ..

    Everything you bitch about Republicans doing you are perfectly OK with it when Democrats do it..

    Hypocrisy.. It's not a bug in Russ programming. It's a feature...

  40. [40] 
    Michale wrote:

    I guess Sunday Night Music night is cancelled in perpetuity.. :^/

  41. [41] 
    Michale wrote:

    What stops a bad guy with a gun???

    Indiana shopping mall shooter shot dead by armed 'good Samaritan,' police say

    Multiple law enforcement agencies responded to the scene
    https://www.foxnews.com/us/indiana-shopping-mall-shooting-police

    A good guy with a gun...

    Thank the gods for the 2nd Amendment, eh??

    And Democrats want to DISARM Americans...

    Democrats want to make sure that there are MORE killed in gun violence..

    :eyeroll:

  42. [42] 
    Michale wrote:

    At least four people, including the shooter, are dead and others are injured following a shooting at a shopping mall in the suburbs of Indianapolis, according to local reports.

    Greenwood Chief James Ison said "a good Samaritan with a handgun" at the scene killed the shooter. He said two others were wounded and are being treated in area hospitals.

    Statistically speaking... In Crowd Based Mass shootings where no one in the crowd is armed, the average number of casualties is 11.

    In Crowd Based Mass Shootings where one or more of the crowd is armed, the average number of casualties is 4...

    Good guys with guns save lives...

    The facts are clear.. Even Democrats' CD&GC states this as fact..

  43. [43] 
    Michale wrote:

    Glenn Greenwald explains media shift against Biden: 'Democrats are petrified' he’s going to run again

    Glenn Greenwald spoke with Fox News Digital at FreedomFest in Las Vegas
    https://www.foxnews.com/media/glenn-greenwald-explains-media-shift-against-biden-democrats-petrified

    The WORST thing that could happen to the Democrat Party is Joe Biden for President in 2024.... :D

  44. [44] 
    Michale wrote:

    "We're already now seeing the emergence of this extremely predictable narrative that 'oh, well compared to DeSantis. Trump is basically like this benign figure because he was really basically too lazy and too undisciplined to ever do any real damage. It's Ron DeSantis who's the serious threat. So now suddenly, the once-in-a-lifetime Hitler figure has been replaced by someone we're supposed to believe is even more dangerous, even though Ron DeSantis is nothing more—he's like Mike Pompeo, just somebody who's a very standard run-of-the-mill, Republican conservative who may be modified on the margin some of his rhetorical expressions to accommodate the kind of new sensibility that Donald Trump ushered in. But there's so much of the media ecosystem that depends upon the argument that the Republican Party has become this fascist dictatorial regime that no matter who Trump is replaced by in terms of leaving the Republican Party, they're just gonna immediately transfer that same narrative to that person.

    And Trump will be thought of by, you know, by 2026 the way George W. Bush is now—this sort of like nice old man who sure, we had some disagreements, but never really was quite dangerous the way this new one is. And you're already seeing that."
    -Glenn Greenwald

    And we're seeing that with George Bush here in Weigantia..

    While Bush was POTUS, BUSH was "Hitler incarnate" according to Democrats and Weigantians..

    Now, President TRUMP is "Hitler incarnate" and Bush is a nice old man...

    Democrat hysterical fear mongering... First because of hysterical PBDS. Now because of hysterical PTDS...

    It's ALL nothing but Democrat hysterical fear mongering..

    After President Trump leaves the Oval Office in 2029 for good, then Democrats will suffer from hysterical PDSDS..

    THEN DeSantis will be "Hitler Incarnate"...

    Ya'all seeing the pattern here??? :eyeroll:

  45. [45] 
    Michale wrote:

    Khamenei adviser says Tehran 'capable of building nuclear bomb'

    Tehran will also directly respond against Israel should its security be targeted, the report says citing the advisor.
    https://www.jpost.com/middle-east-news/iran-news/article-712327

    Great job, Democrats.. :eyeroll:

  46. [46] 
    Michale wrote:

    Democrats' Manchin rage

    Democrats are publicly fuming that Sen. Joe Manchin (D-W.Va.) can't be trusted and has doubled-crossed them yet again on Build Back Better. But privately, they're taking him at his word that he's still committed to working with them to lower prescription drug prices.
    https://www.axios.com/2022/07/16/democrats-manchin-rage

    It's going to be hilarious to see Manchin fool Democrats again and again and again... :D

    It's almost as if Democrats LIKE to lose... Because they are doing it so much.. :D

  47. [47] 
    Michale wrote:

    "He has sabotaged the president's agenda. No, look, if you check the record, six months ago, I made it clear that you have people like Manchin, Sinema to a lesser degree, who are intentionally sabotaging the president's agenda."
    -Bernie Sanders

    GOOD... The Democrat agenda is BAD for Americans, so it's a GOOD thing that SOMEONE is sabotaging it..

  48. [48] 
    Michale wrote:

    House to move toward vote on assault weapons ban
    https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/house-to-move-toward-vote-on-assault-weapons-ban/ar-AAZBEnq

    As I said... Democrats simply LIKE to lose.. :D

    In light of SCOTUS rulings, there will be no "assault rifle" ban..

    Because you can't ban something SOLELY on the basis that it "looks scary"... :eyeroll:

  49. [49] 
    Michale wrote:

    Democrats should use 14th Amendment insurrection clause to keep Trump off the ballot in 2024
    https://thehill.com/opinion/judiciary/3562637-democrats-should-use-14th-amendment-insurrection-clause-to-keep-trump-off-the-ballot-in-2024/

    Democrats are SOOOO scared of running against President Trump in 2024....

    Democrats are petrified by a FAIR election because they know that President Trump will WIN a *fair* election..

    Hence all this BS from the Cardassian 6JC....

    PROVEN and DOCUMENTED BS....

    Once again, Democrats are going to lose.. :D

  50. [50] 
    Michale wrote:


    END OF WATCH

    Deputy Sheriff Michael Levison
    Bernalillo County Sheriff's Office, New Mexico
    End of Watch: Saturday, July 16, 2022


    And remind the few...
    When ill of us they speak..
    That we are all that stands between..
    The monsters and the weak...

  51. [51] 
    Michale wrote:


    END OF WATCH

    Lieutenant Fred Beers
    Bernalillo County Sheriff's Office, New Mexico
    End of Watch: Saturday, July 16, 2022


    And remind the few...
    When ill of us they speak..
    That we are all that stands between..
    The monsters and the weak...

  52. [52] 
    Michale wrote:


    END OF WATCH

    Undersheriff Larry Koren
    Bernalillo County Sheriff's Office, New Mexico
    End of Watch: Saturday, July 16, 2022


    And remind the few...
    When ill of us they speak..
    That we are all that stands between..
    The monsters and the weak...

  53. [53] 
    Michale wrote:

    Neighbor of Black man in Minneapolis shot by police berates protesters: 'This is not OK!'

    'This is not a George Floyd situation,' the mother of two young children told the protesters
    https://www.foxnews.com/us/neighbor-black-man-minneapolis-shot-police-berates-protesters-this-is-not-ok

    Typical cop-hating moron Democrats..

    Another good shoot by LEOs and cop hating Democrats go batshit hysterical crazy...

    :eyeroll:

  54. [54] 
    Michale wrote:

    Disney World’s Reedy Creek firefighters endorse DeSantis despite district’s abolishment
    https://www.orlandosentinel.com/politics/os-ne-reedy-creek-firefighter-endorsement-20220712-6vewcaq54fcbvpnanmrja3bg4e-story.html

    Ron DeSantis... Still kicking Disney's ass!! :D

  55. [55] 
    Michale wrote:

    AP Stylebook Finally Recognizes AR-15s Aren’t Weapons of War

    The term “assault weapon” is nonsensical. Finally, the Associated Press’s highly influential Stylebook followed by the news media is recognizing that fact. As the AP now acknowledges, the term conveys “little meaning” and is “highly politicized.”
    https://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2022/07/17/ap_stylebook_finally_recognizes_ar-15s_arent_weapons_of_war_147903.html

    Even MC concedes that "assault rifle" is a media/political concoction that has NOTHING to do with reality or firearm nomenclature...

    Anyone who uses the term "assault rifle" to denote actual firearms is simply displaying their ignorance or their anti-gun agenda....

    Or likely both...

  56. [56] 
    Michale wrote:

    “An automatic rifle continuously fires rounds if the trigger is depressed and until its ammunition is exhausted. Avoid assault rifle and assault weapon, which are highly politicized terms that generally refer to AR- or AK-style rifles designed for the civilian market, but convey little meaning about the actual functions of the weapon.”
    -Associated Press Guidelines

    Democrats are always so gung-ho to change definitions to meet their hysterical anti-America agenda...

    :eyeroll:

  57. [57] 
    Michale wrote:

    Mother Nature Dissents

    With record heat in Texas that is testing the state’s power grid, a California wildfire that has threatened an ancient grove of sequoias considered a foundation stone of the national-park system, and persistent drought across the West that is forcing unprecedented cutbacks in water deliveries from the Colorado River, the summer of 2022 already is shaping up as another season of extreme and dangerous environmental conditions.
    https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/other/mother-nature-dissents/ar-AAZBpYw

    And guess what???

    There is not a DAMN thing that humans can do about...

    It's funny I have to explain this to the Party of "science"....

    Humans cannot control the planet's climate.. Humans lack the technological capabilities to control the planet's climate..

    It's really THAT simple..

    And anyone who says other is a moron or is pushing an anti-America agenda...

    For anyone who claims to follow science, this simple fact CANNOT be argued with..

    Humans cannot control the planet's climate..

    PERIOD... FULL STOP... END TRANS...

  58. [58] 
    Michale wrote:

    Entitled Democrats....

    A PLANE IS ON ITS WAY TO TORONTO , WHEN A DEMOCRAT IN ECONOMY CLASS GETS UP AND MOVES TO THE FIRST CLASS SECTION AND SITS DOWN.

    THE FLIGHT ATTENDANT WATCHES HER DO THIS AND ASKS TO SEE HER TICKET.

    SHE THEN TELLS THE DEMOCRAT THAT SHE PAID FOR ECONOMY CLASS AND THAT SHE WILL HAVE TO SIT IN THE BACK.

    THE DEMOCRAT REPLIES, "I'M DEMOCRAT, I'M BEAUTIFUL, I'M GOING TO TORONTO AND I'M STAYING RIGHT HERE."

    THE FLIGHT ATTENDANT GOES INTO THE COCKPIT AND TELLS THE PILOT AND THE CO-PILOT THAT THERE IS A DEMOCRAT BIMBO SITTING IN FIRST CLASS, THAT BELONGS IN ECONOMY AND WON'T MOVE BACK TO HER SEAT.

    THE CO-PILOT GOES BACK TO THE DEMOCRAT AND TRIES TO EXPLAIN THAT BECAUSE SHE ONLY PAID FOR ECONOMY SHE WILL HAVE TO LEAVE AND RETURN TO HER SEAT.

    THE DEMOCRAT REPLIES, "I'M DEMOCRAT, I'M BEAUTIFUL, I'M GOING TO TORONTO AND I'M STAYING RIGHT HERE."

    THE CO-PILOT TELLS THE PILOT THAT HE PROBABLY SHOULD HAVE THE POLICE WAITING WHEN THEY LAND TO ARREST THIS DEMOCRAT WOMAN WHO WON'T LISTEN TO REASON.

    THE PILOT SAYS, "YOU SAY SHE IS A DEMOCRAT? I'LL HANDLE THIS, I'M MARRIED TO A DEMOCRAT. I SPEAK DEMOCRAT."

    HE GOES BACK TO THE DEMOCRAT AND WHISPERS IN HER EAR, AND SHE SAYS, "OH, I'M SORRY." AND GETS UP AND GOES BACK TO HER SEAT IN ECONOMY.

    THE FLIGHT ATTENDANT AND CO-PILOT ARE AMAZED AND ASKED HIM WHAT HE SAID TO MAKE HER MOVE WITHOUT ANY FUSS.

    "I TOLD THE DEMOCRAT, 'FIRST CLASS ISN'T GOING TO TORONTO'."

    Hhehehehehehehehehehehehehe

  59. [59] 
    Michale wrote:

    Do Democrats Value Abortion More Than the Constitution?
    https://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2022/07/18/do_democrats_value_abortion_more_than_the_constitution_147904.html

    The REAL question is..

    Do Democrats want to keep their baby killing AKA abortions as much as Democrats wanted to keep their slaves??

    Are Democrats willing to start a civil war to keep abortion like Democrats were willing to start a civil war to keep their slaves.

    THAT is the question that is important here...

  60. [60] 
    Michale wrote:

    And let's not forget..

    It was DEMOCRATS who took away the issue of baby killing AKA abortion from the doctors and the patients and made it a COURTS issue by ruling as they did in Roe V Wade and Democrat Eugenics v Casey.......

    Once again, Democrats are to blame for this whole mess...

  61. [61] 
    Michale wrote:

    A victim of violence challenges the BLM narrative

    Last Thursday, Andrew “Tekle” Sundberg tried to kill a woman and her two children and, when they were taken to safety, he tried to kill the police. Eventually, the police killed Sundberg, at which point BLM moved in and started accusing the police of committing a racist murder. Where this predictable little show took an unexpected turn was when the woman who was almost killed along with her children challenged the protest, only to have the protesters dismiss her. Facts were irrelevant; she didn’t fit the narrative.

    Arabella Foss-Yarbrough, a Black woman (not that her race should matter), was in her apartment Wednesday night with her two children, when Sundberg, who had been harassing her for months, fired multiple bullets into her apartment. Foss-Yarbrough called 911 and police were able to move her and her children to a safe place. However, deprived of his original victim(s), Sundberg began to fire on the police. Eventually, after a six-hour standoff with a man who had shown his willingness to kill, snipers finally killed Sundberg. As for Foss-Yarbrough, she cannot get into her home and has lost her job.

    Practically within minutes, BLM was on the scene. It was the usual complaint. Sundberg wasn’t a bad guy, despite harassing Foss-Yarbrough for months, and then trying to kill her, her children, and the police. He was having a “mental health crisis.” He would never have been killed if he was a White man.
    https://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2022/07/a_victim_of_violence_challenges_the_blm_narrative.html

    What IS it about Democrats that they are so completely and utterly moronic??

    :eyeroll:

  62. [62] 
    Michale wrote:

    To their great credit, Sundberg’s parents expressed sympathy for Foss-Yarbrough’s experience, but others were less kind. The fact that an innocent woman and her children were almost murdered was of less importance than mourning the almost inevitable death of a crazed man determined to kill.

    What we do know is that the BLM protesters, and execrable ambulance chaser, Benjamin Crump, couldn’t wait for the body to get cold before they were on the move, doing what they can to turn America’s cities into hellholes, with unconstrained criminals and absent or apathetic police.

    Morons...

    Democrats are simply racist morons..

    Nothing else explains the facts...

  63. [63] 
    Michale wrote:

    For the Third Time in Three Decades, Congress Punts on Serious Climate Legislation
    https://www.newyorker.com/news/daily-comment/for-the-third-time-in-three-decades-congress-punts-on-serious-climate-legislation

    What part of *NO* do Democrats not understand???

    :eyeroll:

  64. [64] 
    Michale wrote:

    In July, 1997, the Senate voted 95–0 (led by another West Virginia Democrat, Robert Byrd) to pass a resolution stating that the United States should not be a signatory to what became the Kyoto Protocol, arguing that it asked too much of this nation and too little of developing countries. Vice-President Al Gore came back from the Kyoto Climate Change Conference that December with a treaty, but President Bill Clinton didn’t even bother sending it to the Senate, knowing that it would be rejected, and other attempts to pass climate legislation never reached the floor.

    **NO**

    In 2009, “cap-and-trade” legislation passed the House by a narrow margin—more than forty Democrats joined Republicans in siding with the fossil-fuel industry. The bill limped to the Senate, where John Kerry, of Massachusetts, and Barbara Boxer, of California, could not find a Republican co-sponsor. They didn’t even bring the bill up for a vote, knowing that it would lose; private whip counts at the time indicated that they would be lucky to get forty votes.

    **NO**

    Manchin didn’t do Biden the favor of saying no up front. Instead, he got the President to strip the sticks from the bill (the clean-energy pricing plan that would have forced utilities toward clean energy) and then he nibbled away at the carrots. He used the hope of his vote to get the more fossil-fuel-friendly Infrastructure Investment and Jobs Act passed, and he used the fear of his rejection to keep Biden from invoking executive authority to block federal oil leases and pipelines. Although the sentiments of Senator Kyrsten Sinema, of Arizona, are always hard to read, it appears that there was a solid forty-nine-vote bloc for the climate actions in the bill. But forty-nine gets you precisely nothing.

    **NO**

    Strike Three, Democrats....

    Yer outta there!!! :D

  65. [65] 
    Michale wrote:

    Adam Schiff: DOJ's Decision Not To Prosecute Trump Is "Political" Because "We've Already Seen The Evidence"

    Yea... Just like Adam Schitt had the "evidence" that proved the Russia Collusion Delusion.. :eyeroll:

    The fact is, for Democrats, the ONLY "evidence" they have is rumor, innuendo, hearsay and outright BS...

    THAT is what Democrat "evidence" is... We saw that PERFECTLY illustrated with that Hutch bimbo and her fake "bombshells"....

    :eyeroll:

  66. [66] 
    Michale wrote:

    A gunman killed 3 people at an Indiana mall before he was shot dead by an armed bystander

    (CNN)A shooting rampage that killed three people and injured two others at an Indiana mall ended after an armed witness shot and killed the assailant, police said.

    Around 6 p.m. local time Sunday, multiple people called 911 to report an active shooter at the Greenwood Park Mall, Greenwood Police Chief Jim Ison told reporters.
    Investigators believe the unidentified gunman, an adult man, was shot and killed by a lawfully armed 22-year-old man who "observed the shooting in progress," Ison said.
    Those injured or killed include one male and four females, including a 12-year-old girl whose parents brought her to a hospital with minor injuries after the shooting, the chief said.

    https://www.cnn.com/2022/07/17/us/indiana-greenwood-park-mall-shooting/index.html

    Proof positive that legally armed and trained Americans with guns SAVES LIVES....

    Even Odumbo's CD&GC confirmed this fact..

    Guns are used defensively and saves lives 500,000 to 2 MILLION times a year...

    And moron Democrats want to DISARM these people...

    Completely and utterly moronic...

  67. [67] 
    Michale wrote:

    Cracks form in Biden’s Senate Democratic base
    https://thehill.com/homenews/senate/3561683-cracks-form-in-bidens-senate-democratic-base/

    Aww com'on.. Let's face reality..

    Democrats in the Senate were cracked on day one!!

    :eyeroll:

  68. [68] 
    Michale wrote:

    Cracks are beginning to form in President Biden’s support among Senate Democrats who are becoming less bullish about him running for re-election in 2024 after recent polling shows that most Democratic voters want a different nominee in two years.

    Senate Democrats say Biden’s unpopularity is one of their biggest challenges heading into the midterm election and are worried about data showing that young Democratic voters, whom they need to turn out in large numbers to win, are especially unenthusiastic about the 79-year-old president.

    The relatively cautious and pragmatic members of the Senate Democratic caucus represent the top ranks of the party establishment. They have been careful not to criticize Biden during months of a disappointing stalemate over his signature legislative agenda, the Build Back Better framework focused on climate change and social spending.

    Senate Majority Leader Charles Schumer (D-N.Y.) has urged his colleagues to stay unified and positive throughout the negotiations, and to avoid criticizing either Biden or centrist Sen. Joe Manchin (D-W.Va.), who on Thursday again delivered a blow to the measure.

    But the growing disaffection among Democratic voters with the president and the direction of the country are becoming impossible to ignore.

    Democrats are falling apart... Pure and simple...

    The GOP will gain the Senate... And Jean Luc will have to wear a PRO TRUMP or ANTI BIDEN T-Shirt to work.. :D

    Life is grand... :D

  69. [69] 
    Michale wrote:

    A growing number of senators aren’t promising to back Biden in 2024 no matter what — though they don’t want to speak on the matter publicly.

    One Democratic senator who requested anonymity pointed to a recent New York Times/Siena College poll showing that 94 percent of Democrats under the age of 30 would prefer another Democratic serve as the party’s standard bearer in 2024.

    NINETY FOUR PERCENT!!!! of Dems under 30 DON'T want Biden in 2024...

    94%!!!!!

  70. [70] 
    Michale wrote:

    Frustrated Democrats mull drastic step: Challenging Biden in 2024

    “Unless Biden comes to his senses and announces that he won’t run again, a contentious battle for the nomination seems very likely,” Normon Soloman, founder of the progressive network RootsAction, told The Hill.

    “The president may not realize or care that the trajectory of his policies has been taking him farther and farther from the Democratic Party base, but his distance from that base would likely be catastrophic for Biden if he tries to get nominated again,” he said.

    As Biden’s popularity dropped to the low 30s, some of his former supporters began rethinking what the next two years could look like. Even if he runs again — as he has stated publicly and privately — the tacit pact that implies others in the party will step aside for him seems to be fading.

    “The tone-deaf and self-centered thing for him to do would be to soldier on – insisting that he should be president until January 2029 – while damaging the party’s prospects in the process,” Solomon added.
    https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/3561875-frustrated-democrats-mull-drastic-step-challenging-biden-in-2024/

    There is a bunch of news for Democrats...

    And it's ALL BAD... :D

  71. [71] 
    Michale wrote:

    As Biden’s popularity dropped to the low 30s, some of his former supporters began rethinking what the next two years could look like.

    Low 30s!!!! :D

    Boy I bet ya'all are sorry ya'all voted for this luser, eh?? :D

  72. [72] 
    Michale wrote:

    You've got a problem with the way that I am
    This ain't my problem and I don't give a damn

    -Whitney Houston, QUEEN OF THE NIGHT

    :D

  73. [73] 
    Elizabeth Miller wrote:

    NINETY FOUR PERCENT!!!! of Dems under 30 DON'T want Biden in 2024...

    Let them vote for Trump, then. :)

    But, I would really like to know who they think could beat Trump ...

  74. [74] 
    Elizabeth Miller wrote:

    Maybe Manchin would like to take a stab at it? Heh.

  75. [75] 
    Elizabeth Miller wrote:

    Proof positive that legally armed and trained Americans with guns SAVES LIVES....

    Not always and not in Uvalde, Texas.

  76. [76] 
    Elizabeth Miller wrote:

    Careful, Michale ... you're projecting, again.

  77. [77] 
    Elizabeth Miller wrote:

    There is not a DAMN thing that humans can do about it...

    You may finally be right. Ahem. Because, they've already done too much to cause it. Which has always been kinda the point ... ;)

  78. [78] 
    nypoet22 wrote:

    President Trump's administration.. Democrats did the EXACT same thing that Russ is whining about...

    they did not, and I can prove it. name the last bill proposed by a republican president or republican congress that i would vote for if i were in congress. i'm fairly centrist as democrats go, so can you name one?

  79. [79] 
    Elizabeth Miller wrote:

    Michale, you have always, as long as I can remember, confused 'control' with 'cause and effect' when it comes to the dawning climate apocalypse, completely.

    Here is the first climate apocalypse song, written circa 1975 ... before Star Wars hit the big screens, even!!!

    Take Me To The Kaptin

  80. [80] 
    Michale wrote:

    Liz,

    Not always and not in Uvalde, Texas.

    No, not always..

    But enough to make at least Democrats reconsider their hate-gun agenda...

    You may finally be right. Ahem. Because, they've already done too much to cause it. Which has always been kinda the point ... ;)

    And then turning it around?? That is de-facto CONTROL..

    And humans simply CAN'T do it...

    It's NOT possible...

  81. [81] 
    Michale wrote:

    Jean Luc,

    This would require research I am not capable of doing until after 1400hrs...

  82. [82] 
    Michale wrote:

    Liz,

    Tell ya what..

    When Democrats give up their polluting ways, then I will concede that they may have a point..

    But not until then..

  83. [83] 
    Elizabeth Miller wrote:

    So, what do you think about ALL of those LEOs who were at the school in Uvalde and just let the gunman kill those kids without so much as lifting any of their fingers to stop it?

    I am just dumbfounded by it. And, if I were one of those parents, I would have lost it, completely lost it and would probably be dead now as well or sitting in a prison cell awaiting trial for murder of one or more LEOs.

    How can those guys even get up in the morning and look at themselves in the mirror??

  84. [84] 
    Elizabeth Miller wrote:

    Michale,

    Democrats and Republicans and everyone else are responsible for the dawning climate apocalypse.

  85. [85] 
    Elizabeth Miller wrote:

    This would require research I am not capable of doing until after 1400hrs...

    I, for one or two, will be waiting with bated breath!

  86. [86] 
    Elizabeth Miller wrote:

    Michale,

    If humans caused it - and, thank-you for agreeing with that assertion - then humans could have presumably un-caused it, right?

    But, it's far too late for that now. There is a much better chance that humans will just colonize other planets before they do anything of any effect to mitigate against the dawning climate apocalypse here on Earth.

    But, on the bright side, there will be music throughout the galaxies! And, most of it will be Canadian!

  87. [87] 
    Michale wrote:

    If humans caused it - and, thank-you for agreeing with that assertion - then humans could have presumably un-caused it, right?

    First off, I never conceded that humans caused the climate to change..

    Secondly, what you are describing is Climate Control..

    And humans can't control the climate..

    But, it's far too late for that now.

    So, why bother???

  88. [88] 
    Elizabeth Miller wrote:

    I would really like to know what you think about the non-action of the LEOs in Uvalde, Michale. I find their handling of that school shooting to be quite shocking. And, one of them even knew that his wife was in the classroom as the sound of gunfire rang out and they continued to just stand around only acting to sanitize their hands???

    Un-freakin'-believable!!!

  89. [89] 
    Elizabeth Miller wrote:

    What you have confused, Michale, is what humans have done to cause catastrophic climate change and that the rate of the change that is happening now will soon render increasingly more places on the planet inhabitable in our lifetime and in the lifetime of your children etc. etc.

    But, then, you don't care much for science, do ya ...

  90. [90] 
    Elizabeth Miller wrote:

    Why bother!?

    Seriously?

    Why is it a good idea to get off of fossil fuels?

    I'll give you some time to do some geopolitical research ...

  91. [91] 
    Michale wrote:

    I would really like to know what you think about the non-action of the LEOs in Uvalde, Michale. I find their handling of that school shooting to be quite shocking. And, one of them even knew that his wife was in the classroom as the sound of gunfire rang out and they continued to just stand around only acting to sanitize their hands???

    I have been waiting for someone to ask!! :D

    But again, I have to wait til 1400hrs to give it it's just due...

    Can ya hang around??

  92. [92] 
    Elizabeth Miller wrote:

    You've got a lot of research to do today ... take your time.

  93. [93] 
    Michale wrote:

    What you have confused, Michale, is what humans have done to cause catastrophic climate change and that the rate of the change that is happening now will soon render increasingly more places on the planet inhabitable in our lifetime and in the lifetime of your children etc. etc.

    Democrats have been saying that for more than FORTY YEARS..

    And NONE of it has come to pass...

    Why do you think there is ANY credibility on the part of Democrats???

  94. [94] 
    Elizabeth Miller wrote:

    These things take some time, of course ... but, just have a look around the planet today!

  95. [95] 
    Elizabeth Miller wrote:

    And NONE of it has come to pass...

    In reality, a lot of is actually coming to pass, as we write.

  96. [96] 
    Elizabeth Miller wrote:
  97. [97] 
    Elizabeth Miller wrote:

    An ode to Mother Earth!

  98. [98] 
    ListenWhenYouHear wrote:

    Humans cannot control the planet's climate..

    PERIOD... FULL STOP... END TRANS...

    You are the only person that has suggested such a thing. No one else has made such a claim. We are well aware that no one can "control" the planet's climate.

    But that does not mean that man is not capable of influencing the planet's climate -- for good or for bad.

    The pandemic showed us just how much of an influence we play when vehicle traffic world wide suddenly came to a veritable stand still. Further study is required to see if the sudden drop of CO2 into the atmosphere had any part in some of the abnormal extreme weather patterns that we had during that time.

  99. [99] 
    Michale wrote:

    Russ,

    You are the only person that has suggested such a thing.

    No one else has made such a claim.

    Not factually accurate. Liz herself just now claimed that humans can START climate change and can, therefore, STOP climate change...

    Democrats have been pushing for changes for over 40 years to STOP climate change..

    We are well aware that no one can "control" the planet's climate.

    Great.. So you concede that humans cannot control the planet's climate..

    Great.. The debate is over then..

    Since humans cannot stop and start climate change at will, there is absolutely NO REASON to wreck entire economies trying to accomplish what YOU concede cannot be done...

    I am glad you finally see things my way...

  100. [100] 
    Elizabeth Miller wrote:

    And, yet, Russ ... the pandemic slow down did NOTHING to effect any change, whatsoever ... :(

  101. [101] 
    Elizabeth Miller wrote:

    Not factually accurate. Liz herself just now claimed that humans can START climate change and can, therefore, STOP climate change...

    Wrong. And, there you go, again!

    You should be doing some indepth research!!!

  102. [102] 
    Michale wrote:

    JL,

    OK.. Just so we're clear on what exactly is being debated..

    Russ was whining and crying that Republicans are obstructing the Democrat Party agenda..

    I asked Russ why he is whining and complaining about that when Democrats ALSO obstruct the Republican AMERICA FIRST agenda...

    Then YOU claimed that this is not accurate, that Democrats DON'T obstruct Republicans' AMERICA FIRST agenda...

    Does that some up the point of contention???

  103. [103] 
    Elizabeth Miller wrote:

    When are you going to address all of my questions, Michale?

  104. [104] 
    Michale wrote:

    If humans caused it - and, thank-you for agreeing with that assertion - then humans could have presumably un-caused it, right?
    -Elizabeth Miller

    Humans cannot control the planet's climate..

    This is universally agreed upon by people who have more than 2 brain cells to rub together.. And Russ...

    Are we agreed that humans CANNOT control the planet's climate..

    YES or NO...

  105. [105] 
    Michale wrote:

    When are you going to address all of my questions, Michale?

    I just walked in..

    Haven't even grabbed a beer yet! Gimme a break...

  106. [106] 
    Elizabeth Miller wrote:

    Take your time.

  107. [107] 
    Elizabeth Miller wrote:

    Michale,

    There are many factors to talk about in the discussion about what and who controls the climate. There is not one single controlling factor, though there are some factors that are have more impact on the climate than others.

    For me, the discussion around the dawning climate apocalypse has moved far away from the mere desire to slow the rapid rate of climate change to a more geopolitical debate about why we should be moving toward renewable energy and away from fossil fuels and how best to achieve that. Mostly, because it just makes more sense and geopolitical change is more amenable to human control than is the natural world.

  108. [108] 
    Michale wrote:

    Now, you asked what I thought of Uvalde..

    Typical Democrat cop hating bullshit..

    Yea, mistakes were made..

    It's EASY to point out mistakes when you have 20/20 hindsight...

    What *I* want to know and what NO MEDIA OUTLET has bothered reporting is WHY the cops made the decisions they made...

    The WRONG decision made for the RIGHT reasons is not a mistake.. It's simply bad luck...

    But the cop hating media ignores the WHY...

    They simply point to the mistakes ignoring the FACT that they are benefitting from 20/20 hindsight...

    So, until we can learn WHY the cops made the decisions they made, it's all nothing but cop-hate-based Monday Morning quarterbacking...

    Something Democrats and politicians excel at... :eyeroll:

  109. [109] 
    Michale wrote:

    Liz,

    For me, the discussion around the dawning climate apocalypse

    The "apocalypse" has been "dawning" for over 40 years..

    When is it actually going to happen???

    When it comes to the planet's climate, Democrats have absolutely ZERO credibility...

    This is fact...

  110. [110] 
    Elizabeth Miller wrote:

    Michale,

    The cops were standing around doing nothing, apparently not knowing what the situation was, incredulously.

    But, then, after a half hour of standing around doing nothing, not knowing what the situation was, shot ring out from the classroom. Still no action or sense of urgency for another long while.

    Are they idiots!?

  111. [111] 
    Michale wrote:

    With all the problems that this country has....

    Climate change is the LEAST serious and the MOST impossible to do anything about..

    But hay...

    Like I said.. When Democrats STOP using all the items that, according to Democrats, cause climate change like cars and jets and electricity etc etc etc..

    THEN.... AND ONLY THEN... Will Democrats have a moral or ethical leg to stand on..

    Until that happens, Democrats have absolutely NO foundation to complain...

  112. [112] 
    Michale wrote:

    Liz,

    Are they idiots!?

    ALL cops weren't doing nothing... You simply don't understand how these things work...

    We don't KNOW why the cops did the things they did because our media is not reporting that...

    So for you to claim they are idiots because they didn't do what YOU thought they should have done, with the benefit of 20/20 hindsight I might add... Is simply the epitome of ignorance..

    Take a ride along with LEOs in an inner city patrol..

    At least THEN you would have some miniscule of a foundation of knowing from whence you speak... :eyeroll:

  113. [113] 
    Michale wrote:

    Hispanic Republicans take center stage as Democrat gaffes continue

    Polling shows historic shift among Hispanics toward GOP.
    https://justthenews.com/politics-policy/elections/hispanic-republicans-take-center-stage-democrat-gaffes-continue

    The Mid Terms are going to be grand!!!! :D

  114. [114] 
    Michale wrote:

    You see, Liz..

    The problem for Democrats with their Climate Change agenda is that they want EVERYONE ELSE to tighten their belts and to give up things..

    While Democrats STILL go jet-setting all over the country and the world in their private jets and SUV convoys..

    DO you see why ANY SANE PERSON simply would ignore they Democrats hysteria??

    Do Democrats *ACT* like there is a climate apocalypse imminent???

    NO.. They still take their private jets and their SUVs and go all over the planet...

    Odumbo just bought an island... And island that will be UNDER WATER any day now..

    Is Odumbo ACTING like there is an imminent climate apocalypse???

    No...

    Even DEMOCRATS don't believe their BS...

    Why should anyone else???

  115. [115] 
    Michale wrote:

    I&I/TIPP Poll: Americans Want Their Old Fossil-Fuel Economy Back

    President Biden's climate change policies, which many blame for rising fuel prices, are unpopular with the public.
    https://tippinsights.com/i-i-tipp-poll-americans-want-their-old-fossil-fuel-economy-back/

    Democrats need to face reality..

    Their anti-America climate change agenda is going nowhere...

    Because Democrats themselves aren't willing to toe their own line...

  116. [116] 
    Michale wrote:

    Bidenomics: Nearly half of small businesses fear shutting down amid elevated inflation

    Small business concerns about closing has risen 12% since last summer.
    https://justthenews.com/nation/states/center-square/small-businesses-risk-shutting-down-droves-amid-elevated-inflation

    This is the Democrat Party legacy.... :^/

  117. [117] 
    Michale wrote:

    Democrat legacy Part II

    Murders, shootings continue to surge in Dem-led city after months of rioting over George Floyd's killing

    Portland, the site of massive George Floyd protests, has been ravaged by violent crime since

    Recent crime study examines how Portland homicides and non-fatal shootings have increased over the last three years
    https://www.foxnews.com/us/portland-the-site-massive-george-floyd-protests-been-ravaged-violent-crime-since

    Democrats have turned Portland into a 3rd world shithole...

    I almost feel sorry for Bashi having to live there...

  118. [118] 
    Elizabeth Miller wrote:

    Michale,

    So for you to claim they are idiots because they didn't do what YOU thought they should have done, with the benefit of 20/20 hindsight I might add... Is simply the epitome of ignorance..

    This ain't about 20/20 hindsight but it sure is the epitome of ignorance when cops don't know what the protocols are for an active shooter inside a school classroom on a school day.

  119. [119] 
    Elizabeth Miller wrote:

    I didn't claim they were idiots, by the way.

  120. [120] 
    Elizabeth Miller wrote:

    But, they're behavior on that day was surely idiotic, among other things.

  121. [121] 
    Elizabeth Miller wrote:

    And, so was their behavior.

  122. [122] 
    ListenWhenYouHear wrote:

    So, what do you think about ALL of those LEOs who were at the school in Uvalde and just let the gunman kill those kids without so much as lifting any of their fingers to stop it?

    Mind if I take this question as well? I think that if blame is to be laid upon the police for their response, that blame rests upon the command staff.

    I think that we forget that we have no idea what it must be like when you have so much occurring all around you and you are asked to make life and death decisions based on unclear information. And the parents showing up at the school only made the police have to shift their focus to make sure no one else enter the school.

    The shooter barricaded himself in a classroom full of students. Would you have the police rush into a classroom full of children firing at anything that moves? What if the shooter has lined up children all around him to be used as a human shield, what are officers to do? If the officers shoot a kid then the public will scream that they rushed in and should have be more careful! It really is a "can't win" situation for police no matter what they do. Until they determined exactly which room the shooter was in and what his demands were, running in guns a blazing does not sound like it was the right move.

    Active shooting events are crazy. Determining exactly where a shooter is the biggest problem. Callers tell the info that they have to a call receiver who tells the dispatcher who radios command with the info and by the time the officer on scene hears it, the shooter could have changed locations. If everyone believes that the shooter is somewhere on the east side of the building and an officer on the west side thinks that the gunfire came from near them and wasn't just echoing off the interior walls...everyone moves to the west side.

    The public seems to believe that the police are meant to be like Russian soldiers were during WWII -- charging towards their goal no matter what...as they are mowed down one after another by German machine batteries. Russian commanders knew that the Germans would run out of ammo... eventually. Then the Russians would overrun the Germans; well, they would if they still had the manpower to do so. I think if you expect police to put their own lives at such great risk, you might want to consider paying them a wage that better reflects those expectations. And let's be clear, that is EXACTLY what is being expressed by the masses. They believe the police should have given their lives trying to protect those children; regardless if that sacrifice would have changed the outcome in a positive way.

    It is so easy for us to play armchair quarterback AFTER the bullets have stopped firing and can review the information at our own pace instead of having it all coming in at the same time.

    I will say that it was surprising that this was a school system police department -- like when colleges have their own police departments. I understand why universities have their own departments... this was the first "school system department" that I have heard of. They do not take calls for service that are not on school grounds; so you would think "active school shooter" drills would be their specialty. I would have thought that they would have been MUCH better prepared for such an event.

    We so badly want to be able to blame someone other then the shooter for causing all of this pain. The shooter was a mixed up kid by most accounts, and it's hard to put too much blame on someone like that. SO we search for others to take our anger out on.

    Could the response by the police have been better? Of course it could have! It will always "could have been better" because perfection in these matters does not exist.

    I think the more important question would be:

    "Were the police doing everything they could, to the best of their abilities, in that moment to stop this shooter and to protect the children being held in that classroom?"

    There won't be an officer that isn't going to suffer emotionally from what occurred that day. Mass shooting do that even when the police do everything right.

    Police officers have a high rate of suicide amongst their ranks. Having the world blame you for not preventing something that you had no chance to prevent does nothing positive for your mental health.

  123. [123] 
    Elizabeth Miller wrote:

    Russ,

    This was not a barricade situation. How did he barricade himself? Was he barricading in place when he continued shooting kids and teachers while the police stood by just outside the room, listening to these shots and screams, and did nothing to confront and stop the shooter?

    Obviously, there was no command staff and no leadership, whatsoever.

    Police train for this very kind of active shooter incident. Hell, even I get training as a retail manager in a big store, for God's sake.

    Yes, it's hard to second guess police in cases like this when they actually do their jobs. In this case NO ONE WAS DOING THEIR JOB. Even as shots continued to ring out!!!

    I'm trying real hard to understand why they acted so incompetently. Even the kids in that classroom put their lives in harms way to call 9-1-1 and showed more courage in their tiny fingers than any of the LEOs on site!

  124. [124] 
    Elizabeth Miller wrote:

    Russ,

    It is so easy for us to play armchair quarterback AFTER the bullets have stopped firing and can review the information at our own pace instead of having it all coming in at the same time.

    It sounds as though you have not been closely following what happened here.

    Have you seent the one hour and seventeed minute video of the police doing nothing but sanitizing their hands while shots rang out from the classroom and afterward, after they had been standing around for a previous thirty minutes telling themselves it was a barricade situation?

    This is most decidedly NOT about monday morning quarterbacking or 20/20 hindsight. Not in the least!

  125. [125] 
    Elizabeth Miller wrote:

    The public seems to believe that the police are meant to be like Russian soldiers were during WWII -- charging towards their goal no matter what...as they are mowed down one after another by German machine batteries.

    Well, this member of the public just thinks that LEOs should by now know instinctively what to do in an active shooter in a school incident. It's not like it's a rare event in your country, after all. ;)

    It's all about following protocols that should by now have been instilled in LEOs from one end of the US to the other, in small towns and big cities.

    Spin this all you want but, ALL of these LEOs and their absent commanders should be fired en masse.

  126. [126] 
    Elizabeth Miller wrote:

    This is not about blame. It is about accountability for the deaths of 21 human beings when nothing was done to mitigate the circumstances that led to those deaths.

    You and Michale are the only two LEOs that I have heard speak about this incident who take the position you two do.

  127. [127] 
    ListenWhenYouHear wrote:

    Great.. So you concede that humans cannot control the planet's climate..

    Great.. The debate is over then..

    Since humans cannot stop and start climate change at will, there is absolutely NO REASON to wreck entire economies trying to accomplish what YOU concede cannot be done...

    How is it that you CANNOT seem to grasp the fact that when you have to resort to falsely claim that we are conceding statements that we have not conceded, it just proves you are lying and cannot defend your argument???

    We cannot "control" climate change means that we are unable to push a button and have it change as we wish it to immediately. That is "control". We can influence it. We can do things that will effect it positively and we can do things that will effect it negatively... and sometimes both at once.

    And why do you keep making the oil industries bullshit lie, "there is absolutely NO REASON to wreck entire economies" by us attempting to repair what we have damaged? It's been very evident that working towards alternative energy sources provides us a much better economy across the board than just sticking with fossil fuels. Of course the oil industry won't make as great of a share that they have become used to forcing from us, but they'll live.

    Then again, it was folks like yourself that believed that the good folks at the Tobacco Institute had proven that smoking does NOT cause cancer and anyone who said otherwise was just out to destroy our economy -- so I guess I shouldn't be surprised.

  128. [128] 
    Elizabeth Miller wrote:

    Could the response by the police have been better? Of course it could have! It will always "could have been better" because perfection in these matters does not exist.

    Could the police have been better, you ask. Were they doing everything they could at any moment during that SEVENTY-SEVEN MINUTES of pure hell for those kids and teachers.

    You know the answers to those questions as well as I do.

    I suspect that the officers involved in this incompetence will indeed suffer emotionally. They should get the help they need for that. After they are all summarily fired.

    Police officers have a high rate of suicide amongst their ranks. Having the world blame you for not preventing something that you had no chance to prevent does nothing positive for your mental health.

    That is true, Russ and I couldn't agree more.

    But, in this case, your analysis just does not apply. They had every chance to save lives that day and they chose not to act. It really doesn't get any more basic than that.

  129. [129] 
    Elizabeth Miller wrote:

    Russ, this may sound crass and, it is. But, if one or two of those cops in Uvalde had just entered the classroom as soon as they first arrived instead of retreating amidst gunfire from the shooter and not regrouping and returning to kill him, then one or two LEOs may have lost their lives and far, far, far fewer kids and teachers would have been shot and killed that day.

  130. [130] 
    ListenWhenYouHear wrote:

    Well, this member of the public just thinks that LEOs should by now know instinctively what to do in an active shooter in a school incident. It's not like it's a rare event in your country, after all. ;)

    And what is it that they should instinctively know to do when an active shooting takes place? I'm curious as to what this answer is since it is instinctively clear to you. And mass shootings are increasing, but they are still more rare than we realize. The majority of police will work their entire careers without ever experiencing a mass school shooting event.

    It's all about following protocols that should by now have been instilled in LEOs from one end of the US to the other, in small towns and big cities.

    Because all school shooting have played out the same way, is that it? Columbine's shooters roamed room to room killing people. Some shooters seemed to seek out specific people that they wanted dead, leaving others alone as they roamed the halls. This guy barricaded himself in a room with a class full of human shields. Most classrooms have one point of entry. You gonna be the first one to volunteer to go through that door with an armed shooter somewhere on the other side waiting for you to be his next victim?

    Yes, there are protocols that have been created for addressing these horrible events. In most departments, Officers have a shoot to kill order for anyone they encounter with a gun that is NOT law enforcement. All those "good guys with a gun" who boast that they would try to stop the shooter if they had been there should realize that they will be seen as a "bad guy with a gun". So, happy hunting!

    Realize that those protocols are very "generalized" to cover most circumstances... but they never can cover everything. The police know that the public hates school shootings, which is why you saw the government respond with reports that said the police didn't respond the way that we, who have all of the facts, think that they should have -- ignoring that they didn't know what we do now.

    Spin this all you want but, ALL of these LEOs and their absent commanders should be fired en masse.

    NO ONE WANTED CHILDREN TO BE KILLED! Not one officer there was complacent in carrying out their duties. Were mistakes made? You betcha! But you go ahead and fire them all... then it'll be up to you to rush into the building and you can show us how it is done!

  131. [131] 
    Elizabeth Miller wrote:

    And what is it that they should instinctively know to do when an active shooting takes place? I'm curious as to what this answer is since it is instinctively clear to you. And mass shootings are increasing, but they are still more rare than we realize. The majority of police will work their entire careers without ever experiencing a mass school shooting event.

    I understand that when a LEO, any LEO, encounters an active shooter the protocols now detail how the LEO or LEOs are to run towards the gunfire and neutralize the shooter, post haste.

    Do I have that wrong?

  132. [132] 
    Elizabeth Miller wrote:

    This guy barricaded himself in a room with a class full of human shields.

    You keep saying that, Russ. Where are you getting this information from?

  133. [133] 
    Elizabeth Miller wrote:

    You gonna be the first one to volunteer to go through that door with an armed shooter somewhere on the other side waiting for you to be his next victim?

    If I was a LEO armed with a long gun, as I understand most are nowadays, or if I had any firearm for that matter, and I was the first one on the scene in a school and I heard gunfire coming from a classroom, then I would immediately assume that there was an active shooter killing kids and teachers and I would do everything in my power to enter the room and shoot to kill the assailant. Absolutely, positively, unequivocally. And, fire me if I didn't kill myself first, if I didn't respond in that fashion.

  134. [134] 
    Elizabeth Miller wrote:

    Fire them all ... AND REPLACE them with LEOs who will do their damn job!!!

  135. [135] 
    Elizabeth Miller wrote:

    Let me get this straight, Russ ... you believe the LEOs in Uvlade did everything in their power to save lives that horrible day and that they were following their training and active shooter protocols?

    If that is the case, then God help all of you, especially your children. And, I mean that sincerely ... I'm not trying to be facetious here.

  136. [136] 
    ListenWhenYouHear wrote:

    This is not about blame. It is about accountability for the deaths of 21 human beings when nothing was done to mitigate the circumstances that led to those deaths.

    The bloody hell this is "not about blame"! THIS IS ABSOL-FUKIN-UTELY ABOUT BLAME! Innocent kids are dead and the public want someone they can make pay for the pain we are feeling.

    I don't know a single person killed personally, but I cried my eyes out when I learned of their passing. I was angry. I was hurting for their loved ones and families. I did not want to think of how their last moments alive were full of terror, unfathomable fear, confusion and physical suffering. But they most certainly were... and wanting someone to pay for their pain is human nature.

    We could blame the shooter, but he was a messed up kid who we as a society failed so badly that we ended up in this situation.

    We could blame the parents of the shooter, or the school, or the friends of the shooter for not seeing the signs; but then we realize that someone we know could have done the same thing and we would never have seen it coming. And even if we did see something and reported it, it would not necessarily have prevented this event from occurring. The kid has rights. We can't just strip a person of their rights forever because of what we fear they will do.

    Bottom line, there are millions of things we, as a society and as individuals, can do to prevent mass shooting by teenagers, but we aren't doing them and the shootings are happening.

    You and Michale are the only two LEOs that I have heard speak about this incident who take the position you two do.

    Because society needs a punching bag and the police in this country are willing to be that outlet that we need. I get so frustrated when I read articles that misrepresent how police work cases and the police don't speak up to correct the journalist's claims. I have long argued that it would be better for departments to fully explain how investigations work to the public over and over than to allow the media to mislead the public. And they do it because they know the public needs someone to focus their anger at.

    But I am not law enforcement, so they do not get to determine whether I say it for them or not. I have spoken up many times locally without Devon's knowledge of my intention to do so (of course by now, it really never shocks him when I do speak out). So that's why you are hearing something from me that they won't say themselves.

  137. [137] 
    MtnCaddy wrote:

    Regarding Uvalde, it sure doesn't look like a successful LEO operation. The story keeps evolving and at the no moment we don't have the information we need to make an informed analysis.

    I must agree that decisions are hard in such a chaotic situation yet this appears to be a command failure not a courage failure, so firing every last LEO not in charge would be wrong.

    In a rational political environment this would also lay to rest the notion that all you need to stop a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun foolishness.

  138. [138] 
    MtnCaddy wrote:

    [137]

    Police as punching bag? Deserved or not, I have to agree with that.

  139. [139] 
    ListenWhenYouHear wrote:

    Russ, this may sound crass and, it is. But, if one or two of those cops in Uvalde had just entered the classroom as soon as they first arrived instead of retreating amidst gunfire from the shooter and not regrouping and returning to kill him, then one or two LEOs may have lost their lives and far, far, far fewer kids and teachers would have been shot and killed that day.

    So if the officers bust in the classroom only to find that the shooter has placed himself behind a wall of live children - using them as a human shield - that the police should have shot and killed one or two kids to give them a clear shot at the shooter? I mean sure, one or two kids may have lost their lives but far, far, far fewer kids and teachers would have been shot and killed that day. Cannot argue with that logic. So which ones should give up their lives for the group? You want to be the one to make that call?

    Liz, I do not think that the police handled that shooting event very well. There were mistakes probably made. They did not seem to have the info they needed coming to them as efficiently as possible. But they were doing the best that they could in that moment. And sometimes the moment just sucks.

    I use barricade to describe any room that you cannot see into and therefore cannot know what's on the other side awaiting you.

    That 18 yo killed those people that day using recently purchased weapons that made killing that many people quite easy. He is to blame.

  140. [140] 
    Elizabeth Miller wrote:

    Russ,

    The bloody hell this is "not about blame"! THIS IS ABSOL-FUKIN-UTELY ABOUT BLAME! Innocent kids are dead and the public want someone they can make pay for the pain we are feeling.

    Not as far as I am concerned. I've never been much about blame. Ever.

    What is very much needed here is accountability for officers who failed to do their jobs.

  141. [141] 
    ListenWhenYouHear wrote:

    MtnCaddy

    Regarding Uvalde, it sure doesn't look like a successful LEO operation. The story keeps evolving and at the no moment we don't have the information we need to make an informed analysis.

    I definitely agree that is was a failure. I also want to point out that "investigations" were started and completed in world record time by many political... I meant government agencies. Not sure how thorough those investigations were, but they said the police did bad so the public was content with them.

    In a rational political environment this would also lay to rest the notion that all you need to stop a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun foolishness.

    PREACH IT, MY BROTHER!

  142. [142] 
    Elizabeth Miller wrote:

    Well, that notion does presume that the good guy with a gun, expecially a LEO with all of the prerequisite training, will actually use it, so ...

  143. [143] 
    MtnCaddy wrote:

    [142]

    It sure does, which is why the phrase is such malarkey.

  144. [144] 
    MtnCaddy wrote:

    It's also why we'll just arm the teachers! is also so stupid.

  145. [145] 
    Elizabeth Miller wrote:

    That's for sure!

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