ChrisWeigant.com

Sanders Surging? Expect Incoming

[ Posted Thursday, January 23rd, 2020 – 18:21 UTC ]

Once again, today I prefer to focus on the Democratic primary race rather than on the Senate impeachment trial of President Donald Trump. I'm saving up all my impeachment commentary for Friday, so you'll have to wait another day for that. Just wanted to be clear about this, up front.

Over the past two weeks, I've been watching the Democratic presidential polls to see if any significant changes could be ascertained after the most recent debate. It's still too early to draw firm conclusions, but at this point in time it seems that Bernie Sanders had a great debate, Joe Biden's was pretty good, and nobody else moved the needle -- except Michael Bloomberg, who wasn't even at the debate. As I said, it is still too early to tell if this "Bernie bump" (or maybe "Sanders surge"?) is going to be real or wind up being just a few outliers which happened to arrive at the same time.

But before we get to analyzing the numbers, the reason why this is interesting even if it proves to be illusory is that ours will not be the only eyes taking note of this trend indicator. You can bet your bottom dollar that everyone on all the other Democratic campaigns is also paying close attention. Which is why the conclusion we're going to draw will probably prove to be true even if the Sanders surge never actually manifests itself fully. Because there's not a lot of time before Iowa and New Hampshire vote, meaning the other campaigns are going to react by painting as big a target on Bernie as they possibly can. Nothing terrifies a campaign like the news that one of your competitors is experiencing that sought-after "late-breaking surge." Such surges can turn into wildly unexpected results on Election Day, even though there's no guarantee of it happening. Which is why I fully expect the anti-Bernie onslaught to begin in earnest very soon now. But more on the implications for the next few weeks in a moment. Let's first take a look at the three points of data that recently came out.

The biggest news for Team Bernie came from a national CNN poll, which showed (for the first time since this poll began) that Bernie Sanders was leading all the other candidates. Bernie chalked up an impressive 27 percent in support, while Joe Biden only managed 24 percent -- a three-point lead. Elizabeth Warren was back at 14 percent, Pete Buttigieg pulled in 11 percent, Michael Bloomberg managed 5 percent, and Amy Klobuchar trailed with only 4 points.

If this proves to be true -- that is to say, if further polling reflects this new trend -- then it will be the biggest news of the race so far. Joe Biden has only truly been challenged for the lead once, by Elizabeth Warren (at the height of her surge), and it didn't last very long. If Bernie is suddenly doing better in multiple national polls, that is going to be a big blow to Biden's "electability" argument. In the end, of course, electability means being able to get elected -- and if someone else is beating you, then they are by definition more electable.

Then there was a new Survey/USA poll out in Newsweek. This was a national poll -- one with a very large sample of respondents, mind you -- which asked head-to-head questions about certain Democrats versus Donald Trump, to preview the general election prospects of each. And once again, Bernie led the pack. If the election were held today (and if this poll were perfectly predictive), Sanders would get 52 percent to Trump's 43 percent -- a whopping nine-point victory. Two other Democrats managed seven-point victories -- Joe Biden (50 percent to Trump's 43) and Michael Bloomberg (49/42). Elizabeth Warren, Pete Buttigieg, and Andrew Yang would all beat Trump by either two or three points, while Tom Steyer would tie Trump at 44 percent. Interestingly, one of the candidates leaning heavily on the electability argument actually scores worse than Trump -- Amy Klobuchar's 43 percent to Trump's 45 percent. The only one further down the list was Tulsi Gabbard, who would lose to Trump by five points,

Thirdly, there was a new state poll out of New Hampshire which showed Bernie essentially doubling his support in one month's time, while the other candidates moved three points or less. The WBUR poll showed Sanders dominating the field with 29 percent, compared to Buttigieg's 17 percent, Biden's 14 percent, and Warren's 13 percent. Last month the numbers were: Bernie (15), Buttigieg (18), Biden (17), and Warren (12). In other words, Buttigieg and Warren stayed pretty flat, Biden dropped three points, and Bernie added a whopping 14 points.

Taken together, these do paint a rather dire picture for the other campaigns. Bernie leading nationally, beating Trump by more than any other Democrat, and dominating the field in one of the first two states to vote would seem to equal that late-breaking surge that candidates always crave, heading into the actual voting. Which is why I fully expect the other campaigns (and perhaps the Democratic Party establishment and the media) to begin deluging Bernie with attacks. But again, more on that in a moment.

Because it is worth pausing here to note that while these signs all seem pretty good for the Sanders camp, they may in fact prove to be a mere blip in the data, and no more. In the post-debate time frame, there have been four national polls released that I am aware of. In three of them, Biden beat Sanders pretty handily -- by margins of 5, 7, and 10 percent, in fact. In one of them Sanders actually places third. Which puts the CNN poll as an outlier for the week. More polling is required to see if what the CNN poll shows may actually be happening -- a true shift from Biden to Sanders in the Democratic primary electorate. So far, there's no other evidence on the national level that this is true. There are likewise other head-to-head polls showing Biden still doing the best against Trump, which he almost always has since such polling began. State polling is notoriously fickle, and although the other two recent New Hampshire polls both show Sanders with a lead, it is a smaller lead -- nine points in one, and only one point in the other. So while Sanders may go on to win the state, he may not dominate it to the extent that one poll is now showing.

Plus, Iowa votes first. Bernie's not doing as well in the Iowa polling, although it is kind of a four-way tie at the top, so he could always exceed expectations in the caucuses. But placing lower than second in Iowa would blunt any surge now developing. Winning New Hampshire will likely be written off by the media as fully expected, since Bernie is from a next-door state. So even if there is a small surge, it might get overwhelmed by actual election results and the way the media interprets them.

Still, in the national polling, only four candidates have really seen their trendlines turn upwards since the debates: Bernie Sanders, Joe Biden, Pete Buttigieg, and Michael Bloomberg. Bloomberg has now caught Buttigieg and the two are now fighting for fourth place. Mayor Pete's numbers have improved slightly since the debate, ending a downward trend for him. But Bloomberg's numbers are on the rise -- which was true even before the debate and is solely due to his massive advertising spending (which has now reached $250 million). Biden's numbers have tipped up, but he's still in the center of the range he's been occupying for months. Only Bernie has shown real movement, and his average poll numbers are now solidly above 20 percent. This is the first time in the entire race that Bernie has been doing better than this benchmark. His poll numbers still jump around quite a bit, but he's now regularly hitting the mid-20s in individual polls. That's a distinct improvement, even if the CNN poll does turn out to be an outlier.

Which is why the obvious conclusion is that Bernie Sanders is now going to be taking more incoming fire than any other Democrat in the field, and that this will likely continue for the next two weeks, through the voting in Iowa and New Hampshire at the very least. The anti-Bernie forces will declare a truce among themselves to turn their heat against Sanders. As I mentioned, this will not be limited to the Democrats running for office, because the establishment of the party itself is so convinced that Bernie just can't win in November that they'll be pulling out all the stops to make this case as well. In effect they'll be begging the early voters: "Please, please don't vote for Bernie, because then Trump will win!"

My big question in all of this is how it will play in the media. The mainstream media loves to poke fun at Bernie and his campaign, and they've long treated him as no more than a very successful gadfly, at best. But if an onslaught of attacks is being levelled against Bernie by all and sundry, the media could go one of two ways. They might join in the attacks on Bernie, or they might go into "pump up the underdog" mode. It's all about selling a story, after all, and America likes nothing better than the "against-all-odds underdog" storyline. We'll have to see which they choose.

For most of the election so far, the party establishment has seen Bernie Sanders as a useful tool to blunt the prospects of Elizabeth Warren. Warren is much more respected in the establishment, and therefore was always seen as a more formidable progressive candidate. Those in the party who truly believe that a progressive simply cannot win were content to see the progressive vote split rather evenly between the two, because that diluted the opposition to someone like Joe Biden -- a centrist the party establishment loves. Sanders and Warren were supposed to split this vote effectively, denying Warren any chance at dethroning Biden.

But now Warren seems to be struggling. She had a sharp spike in support, but then it drained away almost as fast. This has left her right back where she began, at around 15 percent in the polls. However, during the same period Bernie has been improving. It used to be true, before Warren's spike, that the two were pretty evenly matched in the polls. But since then, Bernie's been doing better -- and that was before his recent spike appeared. If Warren is now seen as becoming more irrelevant while Bernie appears to have a much better chance of actually making it a two-person race against Biden, then that's a whole different picture.

Over the past two weeks, since before the debate even, Sanders has been taking a lot of incoming fire. He's been dishing some out, too, it should be mentioned. But that was before this round of polling appeared. If Bernie was really the only one to get a surge out of the debate, then that spells trouble for all the other candidates. If more polling shows that this isn't actually happening, things may calm down, but one or two polls showing similar results might just lead to the biggest incoming attack yet seen in the Democratic primary race.

-- Chris Weigant

 

Follow Chris on Twitter: @ChrisWeigant

 

49 Comments on “Sanders Surging? Expect Incoming”

  1. [1] 
    MtnCaddy wrote:

    Polls, especially at the all important State level, have their uses. But I suspect that there is going to be a surprise or two out of the first four caucases/primaries. It wouldn't surprise me íf these first four contests could have four different winners and that they act only to winnow off some of the back of the pack candidates.

  2. [2] 
    MtnCaddy wrote:

    Things are just too cray cray nowadays to prognosticate with much confidence.

  3. [3] 
    Don Harris wrote:

    Where do you get the Democratic Party establishment being convinced Bernie can't win in November from?

    They don't say to primary voters don't vote for Bernie because then Trump will win because they believe that, they just say it to scare voters from voting for Bernie in the primaries because they know he can win in November and they don't want him to win.

    The media will choose to attack as it is controlled by the same big money interests controlling the CMPs so there is no chance of Bernie getting cast in the valiant underdog role other than some alternative media outlets that already provide Bernie with positive coverage.

    Of course the attacks will be about nonsensical bullshit and not anything of real substance.

    As you will be waiting for Friday to bore me with the impeachment update (sincere thanks for the respite), Thursday seems like a good day for a follow up to today's article "How Bernie can pre-mpt the attacks".

    This article could speculate on what might happen if Bernie were to announce in the next few days that he would be running a true small donor campaign in the general election should he win the nomination.

    He could explain that just 3% of presidential election cycle voters (about 5 million voters) contributing an average of 100 dollars in contributions of 200 dollars or less would total around 500 million dollars for his general election campaign.

    And then he could say that if 3% of voters will not support a candidate that makes this commitment then we don't deserve to get the big money out of our political process.

    He could even encourage citizens that can afford to give more than 200 dollars to instead give that money in contributions of 200 dollars or less to other candidates for Congress and the Senate that make this
    small donor only commitment so that he will have small donor candidates in Congress to help him as president.

    And he could say that this will end the arguments over who is taking money from fossil fuel executives or any other "group" that one or some of the candidates decide is money they shouldn't be taking because his campaign won't be taking more than 200 dollars from anyone. So much easier and 100% effective.

    You can't get more progressive than that.

    So let's challenge Bernie on something of real progressive substance and give him and the other candidates the opportunity to actually BE progressive instead of just TALK progressive.

    None of the candidates, including Bernie, will do the right thing on their own.

    The question is when will you do the right thing and inform citizens of how they can demand that Bernie or whoever the nominee is be a real progressive that will take immediate action now to get big money out of our political process instead of pretending to be progressive by promising action in the indeterminate future?

    As you said yesterday, citizens still have a choice.

    All they need now is the information to make an informed choice.

    On behalf of the citizens of America I submit this quote:

    "I think you should give it to me."
    -Vinny
    My Cousin Vinny

  4. [4] 
    ListenWhenYouHear wrote:

    Don Harris,

    Maybe I missed it if you have told everyone already, but what response have you gotten from the different campaigns when you’ve sent them information regarding One Demand?

  5. [5] 
    Michale wrote:

    CW,

    Moderation is pending... :D

  6. [6] 
    Tom Servo wrote:

    I'm saving up all my impeachment commentary for Friday, so you'll have to wait another day for that. Just wanted to be clear about this, up front.

    I am waiting on pins and needles, wondering which path you will take.. :D

  7. [7] 
    Tom Servo wrote:

    MC,

    Things are just too cray cray nowadays to prognosticate with much confidence.

    With the Dem primary, I completely agree..

    But when it comes to ultimate outcomes (both Faux Impeachment Coup and Nov 2020) the predictions are easy..

    Thanx, Democrats.. :D

  8. [8] 
    Michale wrote:

    Russ,

    I don't know how to break this to you.. You're going to be DEVASTATED....

    This is America... We don't require people, EVEN President Trump, to PROVE their innocence..

    Using your reasoning, Joe Biden is guilty, Hunter Biden is guilty and Odumbo is guilty because they refuse to prove their innocence..

    You can't win, Russ... The facts are against you, reality is against you..

    You got nothing but yer hate and bigotry..

  9. [9] 
    Michale wrote:

    And it's HILARIOUS for you to whine and cry about a "fair" trial..

    When you supported House Democrats and their back room dealings and secret Star Chambers..

    Yer a hypocrite, Russ.. Blinded by your hate and your bigotry.. You'll say anything, believe anything as long as it brings down President Trump..

    And your fantasy about Dumbocrats winning the White House and the Senate and keeping the House??

    BBBBBWWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

    Yunno, I probably shouldn't laugh about that.. I am sure you actually BELIEVE it..

    Such a deep psychosis based on hate and bigotry??

    You don't have access to any guns, do you?? You probably should be red flagged if you do... I can imagine what your reaction is going to be when President Trump is completely and utterly exonerated and vidicated in this faux impeachment coup and then President Trump goes on to win the election in a landslide and the GOP takes back the House while retaining the Senate...

    I would imagine yer going to go nutz with hate..

    Seek help, dood.. So much hate is not good for you..

  10. [10] 
    Michale wrote:

    And Democrats whining and crying about denying military aid to Ukraine??

    What frakin' hypocrites..

    Democrats voted ***AGAINST*** giving military aid to Ukraine under Odumbo..

    NOW they whine and cry about a delay in aid to Ukraine???

    And Democrats honestly believe that the American people take them seriously!!!???

    How delusional can they be... :smirk: :D

  11. [11] 
    Michale wrote:

    OK Let's get our predictions straight...

    Russ's prediction is that President Trump will be removed from office...

    Russ further predicts that Democrats will win the White House, win the Senate and retain the House...

    Of course, there is not a single shred or iota of a fact that supports Russ's predictions..

    But hay... For him, the real factual world is simply too much to bear.. I won't begrudge him his delusions and fantasies...

    Now for my predictions..

    1.. President Trump will be completely vindicated and exonerated in the Democrats' faux impeachment coup.. And, as Joe Biden points out, President Trump will "probably" be much stronger for having defeated the Democrat's nefarious and unconstitutional plans once again.. A plethora of FACTS support this prediction, not the least of which it's universally agreed by every Weigantian and every political pundit who has weighed in.. Literally NO ONE that has the brain power higher than a foot stool believes that President Trump will be removed from office...

    2.. President Trump will win re-election easily.. The only thing up in the air is will it be a HUGE Reagan-esque 49 state landslide?? Or just a milquetoast mandate landslide... There are a MULTITUDE of facts that support this prediction as well..

    3.. The GOP will retain the Senate.. The political map favors the GOP, just as it did in 2018... Given the hypocrisy and bigotry of Senate Democrats, it's likely that the GOP will increase their hold on the senate with a filibuster proof majority.. At the very least, I predict that GOP will increase their majority by at least 4, possibly 5....

    4.. Due to the total and blatant incompetence of House Democrats and their many FAILED attempts at a bloodless coups, not to mention their complete and utter inability to move past their Trump/America hate, Democrats will lose the House to the GOP by a considerable margin....

    There ya'all have it. A round-up of who is predicting what... :D

    Anyone want to add their 2 cents in, feel free... Be nice to get as many people on the record so we can all see who is full of shit and who has more than 2 brain cells to rub together.. :D

  12. [12] 
    Michale wrote:

    Nadler says Dems unwilling to negotiate Hunter Biden testimony in exchange for other witnesses
    https://www.foxnews.com/politics/nadler-says-dems-unwilling-to-negotiate-hunter-biden-testimony-in-exchange-for-other-witnesses

    Obviously Dims know that Hunter & Joe Biden are guilty as sin.. Why else would they not want them on the witness stand..

    That's the Russ Rule at any rate...

    Just think.. Based on the Russ Rule, how many Dumbocrats are guilty of crimes, because they refuse to prove their innocence?? :D

  13. [13] 
    Michale wrote:

    "This whole controversy about whether there should be witnesses is really a question about does the Senate want to have a fair trial or are they part of the cover-up of the president,” Nadler said during an interview on CBS’ “Face The Nation.”

    Nadler added that “Hunter Biden has no knowledge of the accusations against the president."

    Neither did that Ambassador bimbo, Yankmebich.. She also had absolutely NO KNOWLEDGE of President Trump's phone call with President Zelensky..

    That didn't stop Dumbocrats from calling her as a witness...

    Dumbocrats.. The biggest hypocrites on the face of the planet..

  14. [14] 
    Michale wrote:

    And, in the THANKS A LOT, DEMOCRATS department...

    Miami PD suspends white officer who begins identifying as ‘black’

    “Well, I learned that there’s some people in my family that are mixed and that are black,” Ortiz said.

    “I see,” Carollo said.

    “Let’s not talk about the degree of blackness,” Hardemon said.

    “Oh, no, you’re blacker than me, that’s obvious,” Ortiz said. “And if you know anything about the one-drop rule, which started in the 20th century, which is what identifies and defines … what a black male is, or a negro, you would know that if you have one drop of black in you, you are considered black.

    “You are probably black too, Joe,” Ortiz told Carollo.
    http://www.theamericanmirror.com/miami-pd-suspends-white-officer-who-begins-identifying-as-black-male/

    This Choose-Your-Race-Choose-Your-Gender-Regardless-Of-Facts-And-Science world we live in, is a direct result of Dumbocrats and their insistence to ignore reality and facts and science and concentrate solely on "feelings"...

    It's laughably ridiculous...

    Just like Democrats....

  15. [15] 
    Michale wrote:

    And, since we haven't done so in a while, let's revisit ALL the Democrats who are explaining exactly why this faux impeachment coup is not legitimate..

    "Democrats desperation to impeach is directly and inversely proportional to their confidence that they can beat President Trump at the ballot box."
    -Weigantian Wisdom

    "Impeachment can be legitimate if and only if it emanates from a bipartisan conviction that the president has committed high crimes and misdemeanors – when people of opposing viewpoints can come together in agreement over the seriousness of the offense and the appropriateness of the sanction."
    -Joe Biden, 1998

    “Impeachment is so divisive to the country that unless there’s something so compelling and overwhelming and bipartisan, I don’t think we should go down that path because it divides the country.”
    -Nancy Pelosi, Mar 2019

    “If the evidence isn’t sufficient to win bipartisan support for this, putting the country through a failed impeachment isn’t a good idea.”
    -Adam Schiff

    It's a pretty damning and successful argument when I can use Democrats' own words against them.. :D

    It's the blogging version of Ju-Jitsu... :D

  16. [16] 
    Michale wrote:

    Obama feels Sanders is unfit to battle Trump – and he has told people he might say so publicly

    Obama could publicly rebuke Sanders as the senator’s momentum grows
    https://www.foxbusiness.com/politics/obama-feels-sanders-is-unfit-to-battle-trump-and-he-has-told-people-he-might-say-so-publicly

    NOW Odumbo is going to speak up.. :D

    Ya gotta love the irony..

    Odumbo won't join the campaign trail against President Trump.. Obviously too a'skeered..

    But Odumbo WILL join up to beat up on Bernie..

    Ya really just HAVE to laugh at Dumbocrats, eh?? :D

  17. [17] 
    Michale wrote:

    Reposted for clarity...

    Obama feels Sanders is unfit to battle Trump – and he has told people he might say so publicly

    Obama could publicly rebuke Sanders as the senator’s momentum grows
    https://www.foxbusiness.com/politics/obama-feels-sanders-is-unfit-to-battle-trump-and-he-has-told-people-he-might-say-so-publicly

    NOW Odumbo is going to speak up.. :D

    Ya gotta love the irony..

    Odumbo won't join the campaign trail against President Trump.. Obviously too a'skeered..

    But Odumbo WILL join up to beat up on Bernie..

    Ya really just HAVE to laugh at Dumbocrats, eh?? :D

  18. [18] 
    Don Harris wrote:

    Listen-
    Over the years the only response I got from campaigns is to get on their e-mail list where they send me e-mails asking for contributions telling me I can give up to the legal limit.

    The only exception was in the spring of 2019 when I sent the article that I tried to send to CW for consideration as a guest column (that CW never even acknowledged receiving or never provided an e-mail address to send it to him if he didn't receive it) to Bernie's campaign.

    I got a generic thank you for contacting us postcard with what appeared to be a handwritten note that said "Thank you for the very interesting essay. It is food for thought."

    It was not clear who in the campaign wrote the note.

    The point is that one person is easy to ignore. But many people signed up making this demand together and enforcing it with our votes can make a difference and will not be ignored.

    Perhaps you've heard of this approach- it's called democracy.

  19. [19] 
    Michale wrote:

    OMFG!!!!! :D

    https://youtu.be/uQJoar17jyo

    If ya'all watch NO Videos today, ya'all just HAVE to watch that one...

    It explains PERFECTLY why President Trump is going to win the faux impeachment coup and win YYYUUUGGGGEEEEEEE in November..

  20. [20] 
    Michale wrote:

    Dems Can't Take the Chance of Voters Deciding 2020 Election

    The funny part is, it’s not a punch line. In their opening impeachment argument before the Senate, Democrats claim they believe in a "fundamental principle that Americans should decide American elections."

    The 63 million Americans whose votes they are trying to invalidate don’t believe them.

    Democrats lost an election in 2016. Rather than gracefully accept defeat, they decided to become the worst sore losers in history. Three years after President Donald Trump was sworn in, they still are incapable of calling his election legitimate.

    The Democrats accuse him of soliciting Ukraine to “bolster the perceived legitimacy of his presidency.”

    “Perceived”? Democrats need a long overdue lesson in reality: Donald Trump is your duly elected president. No amount of clamoring about “Russia” can ever change that.
    https://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2020/01/24/dems_cant_take_the_chance_of_voters_deciding_2020_election.html

    And THERE it is, ladies and gentlemen..

    THAT is exactly why we are having this faux impeachment coup..

    Because Democrats don't trust the American people to do what Democrats want them to do..

  21. [21] 
    Michale wrote:

    Like CW said before..

    I am paraphrasing...

    "Democrats desperation to impeach is directly and inversely proportional to their confidence that they can beat President Trump at the ballot box."

  22. [22] 
    Michale wrote:

    Yet that won’t stop them from trying. During the first four hours laying out their case, Democrats mentioned “Russia” 102 times. It’s as if we never had a special counsel, whose team of former Clinton Foundation attorneys and future MSNBC contributors scoured the earth looking for “collusion” for two years and never found it. It’s as if countless other congressional investigations that found “no evidence that any votes were changed” in 2016, never happened. It’s as if we are stuck in the Obama-Biden years, and Ukraine is still waiting for tank-busting Javelins, while Russia exercises its “flexibility” in Crimea.

    It’s as if millions of Americans never told Washington we were sick and tired of its corrupt ways and raised our voices loudly and clearly on Nov. 8, 2016.

    But that’s the world only Democrats live in. It’s not enough that they accuse us of stealing the last election, as they shriek about “Russia,” dredge up the Mueller report, and talk about “quid pro quos,” none of which made it into the actual articles of impeachment. Democrats are preemptively accusing us of “cheating” in the next one. The only people trying to steal elections are Democrats, through a manufactured impeachment that seeks to damage their opponents and/or take away the choice the American people have when they cast their ballots in 10 months. As Chuck Schumer says, it’s a “win-win.”

    Democrats, including Weigantians, scream RUSSIA!! RUSSIA!!! RUSSIA!!!! even though Mueller completely and utterly vindicated and exonerated President Trump on ANY connection with Russia.

    Add to that the FACT that it was OBAMA who was Putin's BFF....

    Obama was "flexible" for Putin, which allowed Putin to take The Crimea....

    It was OBAMA who refused to sanction Russia when it was apparent Russia was interfering in the 2016 election..

    And it was OBAMA who dropped sanctions after sanctions after sanctions on Russia..

    Oh, and let's not forget it was OBAMA who refused to send weapons to Ukraine so they could DEFEND their country...

    As usual, Democrats accuse President Trump of doing everything that they themselves are guilty of..

    Thank the gods, President Trump is going to be in office for another 4+ years..

    And, since Dumbocrats have totally used up all the arrows in their quiver, President Trump will be unstoppable.. :D

    The ONLY thing that Democrats have left is armed insurrection..

    Go ahead, Dims.. I DOUBLE DOG dare ya!! :D

  23. [23] 
    Michale wrote:

    Adam Schiff -- who, after playing fact witness, SCIF keeper, and “independent counsel,” is now in his fourth starring role in this impeachment sham -- couldn’t get 10 minutes into his argument as lead impeacher without slandering the president as a “cheat,” while referencing Russia, of course.

    “President Trump withheld hundreds of millions of dollars in military aid to a strategic partner at war with Russia to secure foreign help with his reelection,” he said. “In other words, to cheat.”

    For starters, President Trump has given military aid to Ukraine – three times. Ukraine did not even know the aid was withheld at the time of the phone call with President Zelensky, and it was never brought up in subsequent meetings with Vice President Mike Pence and others. Some “pressure” campaign.

    Which is EXACTLY why Democrats can't impeach any REAL crimes..

    The FACTS don't support it..

    All Democrats have is rumor, innuendo and 2nd and 3rd hand bullshit... :D

  24. [24] 
    Michale wrote:

    I rag on Russ a lot because he's.. well, he's Russ.. :D

    But I have to give credit where credit is due..

    At least he hangs around to take his lumps.. Seems his compatriots have ran away, totally disheartened by the facts and the reality that Trump... ooops sorry.. PRESIDENT Trump is winning at every juncture..

    So, I raise my Diet Coke to you, Russ..

    At least you have the testicular fortitude to hang around as my chew toy... :D

  25. [25] 
    Michale wrote:

    So...

    Do ya'all think that this end of the world epidemic will curb Trump/America haters' hate and they will join President Trump??

    10,000 quatloos says, not a chance in hell..

  26. [26] 
    MtnCaddy wrote:

    [7] [8] [9] [10] [11] [12] [13] [14] [15] [17] [18] [19] [20] [21] [22] [23]

    Michale, don't fool yourself! Just because you crank out hundreds of words spread out over consecutive posts and you get very little feedback does NOT mean:
    (1) you are right
    (2) that you have convinced anyone
    (3) that you chase anyone off the comments section by your superior reasoning.

    I make myself plow through your posts in hopes of finding something that might give me pause to reconsider my political positions. But if I were to take the time (yes, I'm doing this on my smartphone) to shoot down your lies, spin and factual inaccuracies, it would be a waste of my time.

    This is because you, like all you Trump Derangement Syndrome sufferers in the GOP "Greed Over Patriotism" simply (1) fail to address the points raised and (2) try to change the subject, often via "Whataboutism."
    I hope you are paying CW well as he gives you a forum in which to troll. A forum you would never generate on the strength of your arguments.

  27. [27] 
    C. R. Stucki wrote:

    It's noteworthy, and revelatory, that the Democratics could not care less (or, as the marginally literate ones say, "could care less") whether the Bidens's were scamming the Ukranian gas company for $millions. In their eyes, the sin lies in Trump trying to discover whether they were!

  28. [28] 
    Michale wrote:

    (1) you are right
    (2) that you have convinced anyone
    (3) that you chase anyone off the comments section by your superior reasoning.

    1. The FACTS prove I am right.. And the fact that there is no counter facts also prove I am right..

    2. Oh I know I won't convince anyone.. Party loyalty and all that.. I really feel sorry for those who are so ensnared with Party ideology.. NPA is the way to go..

    3.(3) that you chase anyone off the comments section by your superior reasoning.

    And yet, MANY people are gone and claim I am the reason..

    It's not rocket science.. They couldn't handle the facts.. :D

    I make myself plow through your posts in hopes of finding something that might give me pause to reconsider my political positions. But if I were to take the time (yes, I'm doing this on my smartphone) to shoot down your lies, spin and factual inaccuracies, it would be a waste of my time.

    Because you can't.. I get that..

    I hope you are paying CW well as he gives you a forum in which to troll.

    Unfortunately, due to my brush with mortality, I haven't gotten back to work.. At least not where it pays.. I have sent emails to CW explaining my situation and telling I will catch up as soon as I can... But they keep bouncing.. Maybe I have the wrong email.

    A forum you would never generate on the strength of your arguments.

    Yea.. You keep saying that... And yet, the FACTS are crystal clear.. :D

    The lot of ya'all keep coming back for more?? :D

    Anywho back to reality..

    Trump is going to be exonerated and vindicated in this faux impeachment coup.. Trump is going to win re-election by a comfortable margin, if not a Reagan-esque landslide.. And Democrats are going to lose the House..

    Now, if you have any FACTS that call those predictions into question...???

    "I'm all ears.."
    -Ross Perot, 1992 Presidential Debates..

  29. [29] 
    Michale wrote:

    [7] [8] [9] [10] [11] [12] [13] [14] [15] [17] [18] [19] [20] [21] [22] [23]

    "Ahhhh Don't forget this one and this one.."
    -Joe Pesci, MY COUSIN VINNY

    :D

  30. [30] 
    Michale wrote:

    You forgot 6 and 7 and 24 and 25, MC.. :D

  31. [31] 
    James T Canuck wrote:

    Adam Schiff looks nice and clean today. Add to that his focus, you have a serious contender for MIDOTW.

  32. [32] 
    Michale wrote:

    Adam Schiff looks nice and clean today. Add to that his focus, you have a serious contender for MIDOTW.

    BBBBWWAHAHAHHAAHAHAHAHAHAHA

    Once again PROVING that ya'all don't mind liars.. As long as they are YOUR liars :D

    Hypocrisy at it's finest

  33. [33] 
    Michale wrote:

    It's noteworthy, and revelatory, that the Democratics could not care less (or, as the marginally literate ones say, "could care less") whether the Bidens's were scamming the Ukranian gas company for $millions. In their eyes, the sin lies in Trump trying to discover whether they were!

    Yep.. In essence, President Trump's ONLY crime is doing what's good and right for America and the American people..

    :D

  34. [34] 
    Michale wrote:

    Looks like American support for President Trump is moving up, up and up!! :D

    https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/other/public_approval_of_the_impeachment_and_removal_of_president_trump-6957.html

    Oh my gods, how are ya'all going to handle the SHAME of it all?? :D

  35. [35] 
    Michale wrote:

    And INDEPENDENT and NPA support for President Trump??

    Through the ROOF!!! :D

    Yep, Yep, Yep.. This is NOT going to end well for Democrats and assorted Trump/America haters.. :D

  36. [36] 
    nypoet22 wrote:

    @cw,
    Looking forward to tonight's ftp. Where gop senators vote 4 times to disallow new evidence, then gripe to the press how the house managers have presented nothing new.

  37. [37] 
    ListenWhenYouHear wrote:

    This is America... We don't require people, EVEN President Trump, to PROVE their innocence..

    In criminal cases, you are correct. But in criminal cases, the defendant cannot order his employees to ignore all subpoenas for information nor can he refuse to allow his employees to provide testimony to prosecutors, can he? I realize that you’ve admitted that you never were in law enforcement, so you have no training in this matter — and we thank you for finally telling the truth, it could not have been easy, we know — but you do have enough experience as a defendant in legal proceedings that you should have realized Trump’s Impeachment is different.

    Requiring Trump to order the release of the documents and allow officials to testify is NOT making Trump “prove his innocence.” The documents are not Trump’s property. And why you think Trump’s defense admitting that he ignored the Congressional subpoenas and ordered the government to do the same isn’t going to make an acquittal look like the whole trial was rigged by the Republicans is beyond me! The public wants a fair trial. Why do Trump supporters fear them getting their wish so much? Oh yeah, because Trump is guilty.

    Democrats voted ***AGAINST*** giving military aid to Ukraine under Odumbo..

    When? What year was this? When did Congress budget no aid money going to Ukraine? Oh wait, this is one of your FACTS... which everyone here has learned to read as LIES!

  38. [38] 
    ListenWhenYouHear wrote:

    As for your ridiculous claim of Trump being tougher on Putin than Obama, let’s point out your lies in the most efficient way possible:

    Everything Michale said was a lie EXCEPT his stating that Obama did not sell javelin missiles to Ukraine immediately after Russia invaded Crimea.

    I must admit that I was surprised by what I just said...Michale actually included a true statement about what Obama did during his presidency. Granted, his reasoning for Obama’s action are way off, but he managed to tell a little bit of truth and it was beautiful! Obama refused to sell tank busting rocket launchers to the Ukraine after Crimea was invaded because he didn’t want to escalate the violence and increase the number of casualties.

    And even if Michale got the reason why wrong, he still chose to tell the truth and we cannot ignore that fact! It’s miracles like this that make me hold on to hope that maybe Trump cultists aren’t completely lost causes.

    But back to Trump’s love for Putin...Obama had Russia ousted from the G8 in response to Russia invading Crimea. Trump wants Russia to be allowed back in to the G8 even though they still hold Crimea hostage. Trump has also shown how tough he can be on Russia for its invasion of Crimea by granting Russia TWO White House visits while refusing to grant our ally, the Ukrainians, a single visit! Trump has said countless times that he does not think we should be sanctioning Russia at all.

    And let’s make something clear...the issue was not whether or not the US chose to provide aid money to the Ukraine; the issue was that Trump extorted Ukraine when he chose to withhold money that the US had budgeted in aid to the Ukrainians to force them to do Trump a personal favor! Trump knows he is going to get his ass handed to him in the next election unless he can find a way to cheat like he did in 2016.

  39. [39] 
    Michale wrote:

    JL,

    Looking forward to tonight's ftp. Where gop senators vote 4 times to disallow new evidence, then gripe to the press how the house managers have presented nothing new.

    It's not the Senate's job to do the House Democrats' work for them...

    If Dims wanted that information, they should have gotten it..

    Now Dims are begging the Senate to do their work for them...

    Lazy asses..

  40. [40] 
    Michale wrote:

    As for your ridiculous claim of Trump being tougher on Putin than Obama, let’s point out your lies in the most efficient way possible:

    It's a bona fide fact..

    Prove by the fact you have no facts to refute my facts with..

  41. [41] 
    Michale wrote:

    But, as I said.. I appreciate you sticking around to be my chew toy..

    I just love rubbing your nose in the FACT that President Trump is going to be completely and totally vindicated and exonerated from this Dumbocrat faux impeachment coup..

  42. [42] 
    Michale wrote:

    Trump knows he is going to get his ass handed to him in the next election

    Yea.. You made the same claim in 2016 in the run-up to the election..

    Remind me again..

    Who was full of shit??? And WHO called it dead on ballz accurate, even down the EC count??

    Oh yea.. That's right.

    YOU were full of shit...

    *I* called it dead on ballz accurate, even down to the EC count.. :D

    Let's also not forget how you blew the Russia Collusion delusion call and EVERY President Trump prediction you have EVER made.. :D

    So, yea.. YOU have credibility here, Russ.. NOT!!!!

    Hhehehehehehehehe

    But I am still glad you stick around.... :D

  43. [43] 
    Michale wrote:

    Four Facts that totally blow the Dumbocrats case out of the water..

    The call transcript shows zero link between aid and political investigations. (And remember, President Trump declassified and released the transcript all on his own.)

    The aid was released without any commitment to new investigations.

    Ukraine did not know aid was withheld at the time of the July 25 phone call.

    President Trump and President Zelensky have both repeatedly said that there was no pressure. In fact, there are multiple Ukrainian officials on the record saying there was no pressure and no link between the aid and investigations.

    Democrats have NO DEFENSE for these facts..

    THAT is why they chose nebulous and smoke filled Impeachment Articles that do not exist as criminal charges... :D

  44. [44] 
    Michale wrote:

    And while Democrats have been pursuing their baseless impeachment against President Trump, he has never stopped working for the American people. He announced a historic Phase One Trade Agreement with China, the USMCA is moving forward, and evil terrorist Qassem Soleimani has been eliminated. All of this while maintaining the lowest average unemployment rate in recorded history. It is easy to tell who is really working on behalf of the American people.

    Perhaps the most telling part of this entire sham is that the crimes Democrats are alleging never even made it into the actual articles of impeachment they passed. The only abuse of power here has been from the Democrats. The Democrat party has weaponized impeachment into a political tool because they cannot accept that their own failed candidate did not win the 2016 election. So now they are rushing to impeach with another election just months away. Perhaps the Democrats should stop obstructing Congress and return to working on behalf of the American people, rather than working so hard to influence—and interfere in—the 2020 election.

    The American people know that President Trump is in their corner, working for them and for this great country..

    The American people ALSO know that Democrats are simply Trump/America haters and THAT is all they care about..

    And when President Trump is thoroughly vindicated and exonerated from this faux impeachment coup and President Trump coasts easily to re-election, ya'all will simply have NO ARGUMENT against President Trump to make.. :D

    President Trump is gonna lobotomize and sterilize ya'all, all in one fell swoop...

    And, come 4 Nov 2020, ya'all will be like... "Uh... zzzzz...blub blub... what do we do now?? zzz er.. uh.. glub glub glub..."

    I predict that come Nov, it's gonna be CW doing commentaries and me, Liz and JL posting.. :D

  45. [45] 
    Michale wrote:

    Massachusetts serial pooper arrested after police catch her defecating in parking lot: reports
    https://www.foxnews.com/us/massachusetts-serial-pooper-arrested-after-police-catch-her-defecating-in-parking-lot-reports

    Democrats... :eyeroll:

  46. [46] 
    Michale wrote:

    Awwww right.. See ya'all in the AM.. :D

  47. [47] 
    Michale wrote:

    And let me leave you with one last thought besides the Democrat public serial pooper..

    There is only ONE WAY this faux impeachment coup ends..

    With President Trump completely and utterly exonerated and vindicated... And STRONGER going into the Nov 2020 election...

    As Piers Morgan said of Democrats..

    Mind-blowingly STUPID politics....

  48. [48] 
    ListenWhenYouHear wrote:

    Yea.. You made the same claim in 2016 in the run-up to the election..

    Remind me again..

    Who was full of shit???

    I was wrong in my prediction, I have never denied that. “Full of shit”? No, I was wrong.

    Someone is “full of shit” when they knowingly say something that they know is untrue. Predict any outcome you want, you will either be right or wrong — it’s lying about things being true that can be proven to be false that make you “full of shit”

    You know, like claiming you never told me that you had shot a woman when you were an MP in the military, or that you were never in law enforcement outside of your time in the military, or you never claimed that you had been in law enforcement for 25 years... all things that I have provided you the dates for when you posted each one of them to show you that you were lying.

    You kept calling me a liar for repeating your words back to you, but it wasn’t just that you wrong for saying I had lied. — you were the one who proved to everyone here that YOU are the one full of shit by refusing to admit to the truth that we all could see for ourselves. Your word means NOTHING as you are contradicting yourself all the time. Then you deny contradicting yourself even after we show you your contradictory statements.

    Face it, Michale, you are the shit emoji come to life!

    Let's also not forget how you blew the Russia Collusion delusion call and EVERY President Trump prediction you have EVER made.. :D

    I predicted Trump would be impeached, which you predicted would not have enough votes to pass the House, so you are once again full of shit — not for being wrong in your prediction, but in saying that I have been wrong about EVERY prediction I have ever made regarding Trump!

  49. [49] 
    ListenWhenYouHear wrote:

    CRS

    It's noteworthy, and revelatory, that the Democratics could not care less (or, as the marginally literate ones say, "could care less") whether the Bidens's were scamming the Ukranian gas company for $millions.

    We’d care if there was any evidence that supported such allegations...but there are none!

    In their eyes, the sin lies in Trump trying to discover whether they were!

    What, by any of Trump’s actions, makes you believe that Trump was “trying to discover” anything? He did not request that Ukraine investigate the Biden’s actions, he simply wanted the Ukrainians to SAY that they were opening up investigations on the Biden’s.

    Volker pointed this out during his testimony; they were not asking Ukraine to do anything, they were simply demanding that Ukraine SAY that they were doing it! And why haven’t we been informed of the FBI’s/DOJ’s investigation results into this matter? That would be who would be tasked with such an investigation, but I guess that they don’t investigate claims already proven to be Russian propaganda.

    Trump asking the Ukrainians to interfere in our elections would have opened them up to facing sanctions in the future once it was clear that they never intended or had reason to conduct an investigation.

    Do what Trump wants now to get the military aid, but risk the Democrats sanctioning them in the future....or refuse to get involved in our elections and risk Trump withholding the much needed military aid they had been promised...either way, Putin is the big winner!

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