ChrisWeigant.com

Post-Trump Does Not Mean Trump-Free

[ Posted Thursday, November 7th, 2019 – 17:41 UTC ]

I realize that the 2020 election is still almost a full year away, but today I'm going to take an even longer view than that. Because it's worth pondering what a post-Trump world will look like, and from what I see so far many Democrats have completely unrealistic expectations for what that world will look like. I say this because a post-Trump world does not automatically equate to a Trump-free world.

Some definition of terms is necessary to explain that statement, of course. A post-Trump world, to me, means what happens in the American political system after Trump leaves office. This could happen in various ways, but it will happen eventually. But this has led many Democrats to assume some sort of "return to normalcy," where the entire Trump experience is like a tumor on the body politic -- once it's removed, we can all breathe easy again and prepare for a healthier future. This may prove to be wildly optimistic, for a number of reasons. The biggest is that Trump will likely still be around for years to come, so removing him from the Oval Office isn't just going to magically erase his existence. A post-Trump world will most decidedly not be completely Trump-free.

Does anyone really think Trump is going to "go gentle into that good night"? As Dylan Thomas so aptly put it, what Trump will instead most likely opt for is to "rage, rage against the dying of the light." In fact, there's a lesser-well-known line in that poem that comes between those two that is even more appropriate for predicting Trump's post-office behavior: "old age should burn and rave at close of day." That sounds like it was specifically written as a playbook for Trump, doesn't it?

There are really only four ways Trump could leave office. The first is death -- he could die before his term is up. The second is impeachment and removal, or resignation -- Trump could fail to complete his first term in either fashion. The third is winning a second term and then eventually being replaced by either a Democrat or a Republican. And the last is getting beaten by whichever Democrat wins the 2020 nomination.

Let's take those one at a time, in decreasing order of how much each would enrage Trump. The worst outcome for Trump would, obviously, be either being impeached and removed from office or being forced to resign by his fellow Republicans. This is not very likely to happen, as many have pointed out, but it is a remote possibility. What would Trump do in such a situation? He would spend every waking moment of the rest of his life denouncing the "coup" against him. His go-to emotion has always been loudly declaring his own victimhood at the hands of those who would destroy him, and this would kick into overdrive. Trump loves to whine about those who aren't sufficiently full of praise for his wonderfulness, and if he were kicked out of office he would see it as "the swamp" or "the deep state" unfairly taking him down. He already whips up his followers into a frenzy over all the perceived slights, and this would only get worse if he were removed from office.

Assuming Trump finishes his first term, though, if he is beaten at the ballot box next year, the level of his rage may be a function of how badly he does get beat. Will Joe Biden or Elizabeth Warren (or whomever) top Hillary Clinton's popular vote margin of roughly three million votes? Will it be an absolute landslide in the Electoral College, or will it be close? The answers to those questions will likely influence Trump's response. If the election is even mildly close, Trump is going to begin claiming that it was rigged and illegitimate and should not be counted. You just know he will do so, at this point. He will likely start with the same excuse he gave for Hillary topping his vote total: "Millions of illegal immigrants voted illegally, and that's why they say I lost. If those millions of votes weren't counted, I win." Trump may demand recounts and file court cases, and we could even have a repeat of the 2000 election fiasco where the Supreme Court gets involved. And that may just be the best case scenario. The worst case would be that Trump informs his supporters that he is declaring the election results null and void, and will therefore not give up the office. You can just imagine where that road will quickly lead, although hopefully it would end with the Secret Service frogmarching Trump out of the White House on January 20, 2021.

Of course, if Trump wins in 2020, he'll be around for four more years no matter what, and his outrageous Twitter behavior will almost certainly only get worse. To say nothing of his actual official behavior, which (if he survives impeachment) will be completely out of control.

Each of these only really addresses the shorter term, however. What about the longer term? Let's say Trump is defeated next year, and doesn't pull a hissy fit and refuse to leave the Oval Office. Perhaps the Democrat (as Joe Biden likes to say) "beats Trump like a drum," leaving no possible "It was the illegals!" defense for Trump. What are Trump and his followers going to do next? They're still going to paint the incoming president as somehow illegitimate and they're going to lionize every perceived Trump success to the skies. In fact, I wrote about this over a year and a half ago, in a Presidents' Day column, by pointing out what had happened to Ronald Reagan after he left office:

The mythmaking efforts surrounding Reagan's legacy were astoundingly successful. He was built up to Republican demigod status, to the point where he now is seen as some sort of Titan who strode the Earth. There was a concerted effort to rename all sorts of things after Reagan, which included wanting such a monument in all 50 states, as well as possibly carving his face onto Mount Rushmore. That last one, thankfully, failed, although plenty of buildings and one notable airport now bear Reagan's name.

This entire story is much better told in the book Tear Down This Myth: The Right-Wing Distortion Of The Reagan Legacy, by Will Bunch. It shows how the Reagan myth did not spring fully-formed in Republicans' minds, but instead was the result of a concerted effort by those who wanted to define conservatism in their own way.

Later on in this column, though, I pointed out the difference in what happened to the Reagan myth as opposed to what will happen when Trump leaves office:

But a key point is that Reagan himself wasn't involved much in all this mythmaking. His ego wasn't driving the effort. Instead, others were building him up to mythic proportions to serve their own ends.

That's what is going to be different about the legacy Trump leaves behind him. In Trump's case, he will quite likely bankroll the effort to boost his presidency to mythic proportions. Trump's entire life has been about protecting his brand, after all, so why should anyone expect him to do any differently after he leaves the White House?

Liberals now expect Donald Trump to be nothing short of a laughingstock in future history books. At some point, they believe, the country will come to its senses and the Trump era will come to a crashing halt. After this point, history will reset itself and heap scorn on Trump for all the idiocies he produces seemingly on a daily basis. He will doubtlessly go down in history as one of the worst presidents ever, if not at the absolute bottom of the list.

This all seems pretty reasonable, sitting as we do in 2018. How could any sane person consider Trump's presidency a success, after all? He's gotten fewer things done than almost all the rest, and his bumbling and tweeting is nothing short of legendary.

But legends can change, over time.

And Trump will dedicate the remainder of his life to building up his own legend, and from what we've already seen, all his followers will likely buy into this mythmaking without a shadow of a doubt. And a big part of this will be reverting to how Trump addressed politics before he decided to become a politician: by tearing into whatever Democrats are currently doing, with a passion. Remember Trump's birtherism efforts? That is how he's going to amuse himself after he leaves office. By burning and raving at the close of day.

Even his eventual death won't stop this, in fact. His children are already eagerly anticipating building a Trump political dynasty, and since they've spent their entire lives cashing in on their father's name it's doubtful that's going to change after he's gone. Donald Trump Junior will likely lead this effort, from all indications. In Trump's best-case scenario, he wins a second term, then Mike Pence might succeed him while Donald Junior gets ready for his own presidential run. If that comes to pass, then the rest of this article is kind of pointless, though.

If any other outcome happens, we will have to endure Trump tweeting like crazy (literally) from Florida or New York or wherever else he chooses to slink off to. Trump could try to convince Fox News to give him his own show, or even launch his own news network (something that was rumored to be Trump's Plan B if he had been beaten by Hillary). The one thing that seems certain is that Trump isn't going to delete his Twitter account and follow in the footsteps of Barack Obama and George W. Bush, who both largely bowed out of the entire political scene after their presidencies. He'll instead be the loudest political gadfly on the scene, and without the constraints of actually being president, his rhetoric will likely get much more vicious and extreme over time.

Some Democratic presidential candidates seem to be willfully ignoring all of this, though. Pete Buttigieg begins his stump speeches by inviting the audience to imagine America on "the day after Trump leaves office," and then goes on to paint a picture of the return of bipartisanship and a new era of getting things done across the aisle in Washington. Joe Biden isn't quite as explicit, but his entire campaign is based on the concept of returning to normalcy. Biden really has no excuse for such a rosy-tinted viewpoint, because he personally saw what Republicans did to Barack Obama.

Trump, as many have already pointed out, is not the disease, he's merely the biggest symptom. There is really no "normalcy" to return to, to put this another way. Republicans spent eight years doing everything possible to limit Obama's power or to tear him down. And all that was before Trump rode down that elevator. Does anyone really think Republicans in Congress are going to be any different if a Democrat beats Trump? They will return to being the party of obstruction, plain and simple. If Democrats win control of the Senate, even that won't be enough, because they'll likely have to jettison the legislative filibuster to get anything at all done.

The lesson Republicans are going to learn from Trump isn't the one that Democrats hope for, to be as blunt as possible. Democrats hope that Republicans will suddenly come to their senses after Trump is gone and admit that creating a cult of personality was a bad idea, never to be repeated. But that's pretty doubtful. What is much more likely to happen is one of two things, and both of them should terrify Democrats. First, because post-Trump is not the same thing as Trump-free, Donald Trump will still command his legions of Twitter followers, and they will shift from being his presidential support to merely being the largest faction within the Republican Party. Whatever Trump tells them to support or to fight against will be exactly what they will believe, no matter what any other Republican says. They will turn their anger on such Republicans just as fiercely as they do now. Most congressional Republicans already live in terror of being attacked in a Trump tweet, and that is not likely to change. Even out of office, Trump will wield power within the GOP just as effectively as he does now. His followers are definitely not looking forward to some mythical "return to normalcy" -- they are proud of "the new normal" they have built, in fact. So even with Trump gone from the official stage, he will still be dominating the party from behind the scenes.

That's a pretty scary thing for Democrats to contemplate, but the second possible outcome is even worse. What will happen if the lesson Republicans learn from Trump is not that supporting him was some sort of historic fluke that now needs to be denounced, but rather that Trump's style is a winning one? What if Trump is eclipsed by someone who is even Trumpier than Trump? His playbook worked, after all. He ignored all the advice from all the political professionals and just said whatever he thought on the campaign trail -- and his followers loved it. They still do, in fact. So what happens if some other ambitious Republican decides to use Trump's playbook without changing a thing? And what if -- the truly frightening thought for Democrats -- the next Trump is smarter and more competent than Trump? Trump has certainly done a lot of damage to American democracy, but things could have been far, far worse if the Trump administration didn't spend so much time shooting itself in the foot. What happens if some truly brilliant Republican follows in Trump's footsteps, but then actually knows what to do when they do win the presidency?

Thinking about all of this leads to the conclusion that both Biden and Buttigieg are way too optimistic about the day after Trump leaves office. Trump's not going to go gentle into the good night, he's instead going to be at the helm of a new industry touting his own legacy. At the very least, he'll be sniping from the sidelines at the media, Democrats, and even those Republicans who dare to offer him insufficient praise or openly break with him. That's going to color the political scene for a long time to come, no matter what form it actually takes (a new "Trump TV" channel?). Republicans aren't suddenly going to break with Trump and Trumpism, because the same thing keeping them in line now is still going to exist: Trump's army of Twitter followers, to whom he can do no wrong.

Which brings me right back to where I started. Sure, it's a lot of fun to picture a post-Trump world with a Democratic president and (hopefully) a Democratic Senate. Sure, there are all kinds of progressive things that need to get done and it will be a breath of fresh air even to see Democrats make the attempt. But post-Trump simply does not mean Trump-free. Just because he won't be in the White House anymore, no one should expect Donald Trump to just fade quietly away. Far from it.

-- Chris Weigant

 

Follow Chris on Twitter: @ChrisWeigant

 

75 Comments on “Post-Trump Does Not Mean Trump-Free”

  1. [1] 
    andygaus wrote:

    Trump's tweets won't have the same effect if the news organizations stop reporting them as a regular thing.

  2. [2] 
    Balthasar wrote:

    Sure, just look a Bevin in KY for an example. If we don't beat him, it'll be a nightmare for Democrats, but if we do beat him we have at least months of him claiming that we didn't. For all we know, he won't ever surrender.

    But I do think that it would be WAY worse if he gets another term. We can "Jimmy Carter" him out after just one term, but after two it would be impossible to get rid of his memory, and his "legacy" would last for decades.

  3. [3] 
    Kick wrote:

    CW: There are really only four ways Trump could leave office. The first is death -- he could die before his term is up. The second is impeachment and removal, or resignation -- Trump could fail to complete his first term in either fashion. The third is winning a second term and then eventually being replaced by either a Democrat or a Republican. And the last is getting beaten by whichever Democrat wins the 2020 nomination.

    What? No love for being removed by the majority of cabinet members and vice president as unfit for office via the 25th Amendment of the United States Constitution? Just because it's unlikely as hell doesn't mean it's out of the realm of possibility. ;)

  4. [4] 
    Kick wrote:

    CW: Of course, if Trump wins in 2020, he'll be around for four more years no matter what,

    Not if he dies in office prior to the end of his second term or any of those other ways you listed plus the 25th Amendment to the U.S. Constitution. What're you smoking today? ;)

    and his outrageous Twitter behavior will almost certainly only get worse. To say nothing of his actual official behavior, which (if he survives impeachment) will be completely out of control.

    Trump has dementia. Full stop. It will get worse.

  5. [5] 
    Kick wrote:

    CW: So what happens if some other ambitious Republican decides to use Trump's playbook without changing a thing?

    Ask Matt Bevin. :)

  6. [6] 
    Elizabeth Miller wrote:

    Chris,

    If Democrats don't already get the gist of what you're saying in this piece, then they've already lost to Trump.

    And, if Biden can't escape the pull of Trump and break out with a persuasive vision for the future, then the post-Trump America may not ever come close to achieving its promise.

  7. [7] 
    Elizabeth Miller wrote:

    Andygaus[1],

    Indeed.

    And, that's another part of the problem and why America's devolving media and political culture will accelerate its decline, especially without the requisite political leadership to successfully manage it.

  8. [8] 
    Elizabeth Miller wrote:

    And, if Biden can't escape the pull of Trump and break out with a persuasive vision for the future, then the post-Trump America may not ever come close to achieving its promise.

    Old and tired phrases like "taking America back and leading the world again", as much as I yearn for a world with real and progressive American leadership, is not going to get Biden the nomination or elected.

    Maybe there is a place for Mayor Bloomberg, certainly more so than Mayor Buttigieg. In my view, if Bloomberg feels the necessity to enter the race, then the Democrats are already doomed.

    We've seen a lack-luster, Trump-fixated Democratic presidential campaign before and it doesn't end well.

  9. [9] 
    Elizabeth Miller wrote:

    We've seen a lack-luster, Trump-fixated Democratic presidential campaign before and it doesn't end well.

    Unless, of course, satisfaction comes when the popular vote is won.

  10. [10] 
    ListenWhenYouHear wrote:

    CW,

    Sorry, but I do not fear Trump or his followers once he is exposed as the criminal and traitor that he truly is! Trump is not a fighter in any sense of the word — he is a coward. His biggest fear after being poor is going to prison, and he is going to do whatever it takes to avoid prison...but sadly he will not have the money he needs to avoid prison because the State of New York will be seizing all of his belongings for tax evasion.

    Please remember that Trump’s CFO/accountant made a deal with the Fed’s to avoid prison time, and we heard nothing from him in the Mueller Report, so there is a good chance he’ll make history for the first Presidential Perp Walk the second he leaves office!! Those tax returns will show how Russian money has been pumping into every Trump project over the last 15 years. The IRS will strip the Trump Organization of all profits that violated the Emoluments Clause and will then go after anything Trump managed to salvage from NY’s review of his taxes. He won’t be able to afford an iPhone or any cellular plan when the tax man is finished with him!

    And you can bet Trump is going to instantly cry that he is suffering from dementia and should not have to stand trial. Sadly, he’s got a strong argument with lots of video showing him rambling on incoherently — and that’s just from his rallies. So if he goes with the crazy defense, he’s won’t be able to stay on Twitter for fear of hurting his defense — he knows too many government secrets to allow someone as unstable as he will claim to be to remain on social media!

    I feel fairly confident that our intelligence agencies have prepared a big gift for Trump and his administration for when they leave office...and that will serve as a strong warning daring future presidents to side with foreign leaders over them!

  11. [11] 
    Elizabeth Miller wrote:

    Russ,

    Where will all of that leave your country?

  12. [12] 
    Michale wrote:

    And, once again, the stark contrast between the old reality based Weigantia and today's HHPTDS infused Weigantia is perfectly clear to those NOT gripped in the throes of HHPTDS...

    Nearly your ENTIRE commentary is built around President Trump losing in 2020..

    It's nothing but mental masturbation.. Everyone here who actually can be somewhat rational on the subject knows that President Trump will be re-elected. They only dispute among us rational ones is how big of win President Trump will get..

    In the olden days of Weigantia yore, there would have been a follow-up commentary outlining what will happen when the most likely scenario (A President Trump re-election) occurs, with as much detail as there is for the fantasy Trump 2020 loss..

    But I am betting that, with the previous rational exceptions mentioned...er.. previously, no one here can handle that reality...

    And so it goes and so it goes...

  13. [13] 
    Michale wrote:

    Russ,

    I feel fairly confident that our intelligence agencies have prepared a big gift for Trump and his administration for when they leave office...and that will serve as a strong warning daring future presidents to side with foreign leaders over them!

    Question.. Weren't you "fairly confident" that Hillary would be elected president??

    Were you not also "fairly confident" that President Trump would be removed from office over Russia Collusion???

    I mean, seriously.. You said "I feel fairly confident" as if it actually MEANS something.. As if it has ANY basis in reality...

    The plain fact is, you have felt "fairly confident" about EVERYTHING taking down President Trump.

    And you have ALWAYS been wrong..

    So, my question is..

    Considering your track record......

    (President Trump 3,743,801 Russ ZERO)

    .... Do you *REALLY* feel "fairly confident"??

    Or are you just putting on a brave face because you can't handle LOSING all the time...

    I mean, this IS (allegedly) a "reality-based" forum..

    Shouldn't you be dealing with REALITY instead of your wishcasting??

    The REALITY that ya have **ALWAYS** been wrong...

    I'm just sayin'...

  14. [14] 
    Michale wrote:

    I mean, I am not TRYING to be an arrogant prick...

    It comes naturally.. :D

    "Of course I'm arrogant!! I've EARNED it!!"
    -Q

    But the simple fact is, ya'all have been predicting Trump's demise since Jun of 2015...

    And ya'all simply IGNORE the fact that...

    "YA'ALL HAVE ALWAYS BEEN WRONG!!!"

    Thousands and thousands of times, ya'all have made predictions against President Trump and ya'all have ***ALWAYS*** been wrong..

    Balthy has been the ONLY one who has come to accept reality..

    "I just wanted to bring everyone back to reality. There isn't going to be an impeachment, because Republicants can't bring themselves to do it. We (dems) knew that this was true before we started it, but feel compelled to do it all the same.

    In the end, like a Thanksgiving turkey which has been meticulously prepped, the process is leading to a half-baked result."
    -Balthasar

    Beyond those who have already conceded the reality, Balthy has been the ONLY one here to take the small step towards reality by admitting that President Trump will not be removed from office..

    I have hope that Balthy continues his reality trek and eventually admits that President Trump will be re-elected..

    But, beyond that, all of the rest of ya'all simply ignore the reality that ya'all have ALWAYS been wrong..

    I think it's so cute that ya'all's hysterical President Trump hate-based predictions have ANY semblance of reality at all.. :D

  15. [15] 
    Michale wrote:

    In short (too late!! :D) Russ..

    When you say "I am fairly confident..." what you are REALLY saying is "I am hoping and praying and wishing and yearning and craving and lusting and hungering...."

    "Just the facts, ma'am.."
    -Sgt Joe Friday

    :D

    "THANK GOD IT'S FRIDAY!!!"
    -Tom Hanks, DRAGNET

    :D :D

  16. [16] 
    TheStig wrote:

    Dementia. By Jove, I think he's got it. Trump's language skills have declined dramatically since his early TV days. It will get worse. How do you handle an incontinent president? It Depends. Wake up and smell the feces people!

  17. [17] 
    Don Harris wrote:

    No matter what direction the Republicans go after Trump will matter less than where the Democrats go.

    Trump did not win in 2016 because of what Trump did.

    Trump won in 2016 because the Dems offered the same old corporate Hillary pretending to be what she wasn't.

    A no-bake cheesecake is not anything like a real cheesecake.

    And as long as the Dems keep offering a false alternative to the Republicans they will either "lose" the election or "lose" to the Republicans when it comes to passing legislation. (The loses are in parenthesis because the loss regarding legislation is by design as it is their job to appear to be trying. The loss regarding the election is they have to win occasionally to keep the deception of trying working with the illusion that something positive may happen by maintaining the status quo without citizens having to try to effect real change.)

    Too bad the only future (near or far down the road) that you want to speculate on is a future where the status quo is maintained and is based on your delusion that the show is reality.

    Too bad you don't have the courage or integrity to speculate on a future without big money in our political process and how citizens can take action now to achieve such a future by participating in One Demand.

    Kind of like the Republicans that are afraid to criticize Trump.

    That makes you part of the problem.

    Get Real and become part of the solution.

  18. [18] 
    Michale wrote:

    Stiggy,

    Dementia. By Jove, I think he's got it. Trump's language skills have declined dramatically since his early TV days. It will get worse. How do you handle an incontinent president? It Depends. Wake up and smell the feces people!

    Yea, you have already tried that line of bullshit.. It didn't work the first 4 times ya'all tried it..

    What makes you think it has any credibility now??

    Because you WISH it to?? :D

  19. [19] 
    Michale wrote:

    And, as an aside to JL...

    "The coup has started"
    -Democrat Plant/Stooge Attorney Mark Zaid

    So much for the claim that this is NOT a coup...

    Every action Democrats & NeverTrumpers have taken since 10 Nov 2016 has been to nullify a free, fair, legal, democratic and Constitutional election of a President..

    Now, if it walks like a coup and quacks like a coup....

    This is either a coup or a (per Benjamin Frankling) an assassination..

    Take your pick..

  20. [20] 
    TheStig wrote:

    LWYH-10

    "Trump is not a fighter in any sense of the word — he is a coward."

    Absolutely correct!

    "Trump Almost Always Folds. From trade deals to gun control and immigration to military deployments, the president has a consistent pattern: Talk a big game, then back down." - The Atlantic

    Delve into his business career and you find exactly the same pattern. A lot of collateral damage to small fry in his orbit is part of the pattern.

    Trump can still play his game, but he older and much slower witted (see comment 16) than he was in his prime. Trump has much more power now that he is President, but he faces a lot more scrutiny than he was used to in his real estate and TV game show careers.

  21. [21] 
    Michale wrote:

    Delve into his business career and you find exactly the same pattern. A lot of collateral damage to small fry in his orbit is part of the pattern.

    And yet, you Dumbocrats LOVED Donald Trump when he had a -D after his name..

    Yunno what you people remind me of?? A bitter divorcee...

    Yer all in love and singing the praises of yer spouse when yer married.. Ya'all go on and on ad nasuem on how awesome yer spouse is, how smart and brave yer spouse is, how they can do NO wrong..

    Then divorce rolls around and, all of the sudden, your brave and smart and awesome spouse is now the heel of the century.. Ya'all go on and on how your ex-spouse is scum of the earth and everything they touch turn to shit and you can't stand to be on the same planet with them..

    It's all nothing but complete and utter emotionalism.. HYSTERICAL emotionalism that borders on... no.. that CROSSES the border into fanaticism..

    That is EXACTLY how ya'all act...

    It's HILARIOUS to watch.. Made even MORE SO by the fact that ya'all are completely and utterly OBLIVIOUS to the reality of ya'all's fanaticism..

    They only sad part is what that fanaticism has done to this formerly great and awesome "reality based" forum..

  22. [22] 
    Michale wrote:

    Stiggy blusters and whines and "ignores" Michale in 3...2....1...

    :D

  23. [23] 
    nypoet22 wrote:

    And, as an aside to JL...
    "The coup has started"

    not a coup.

    jason: girl!
    janet: not a girl
    ~the good place

  24. [24] 
    nypoet22 wrote:

    @ts,

    i think you and the author of the article fundamentally misunderstand donald's modus operandi. yes, when somebody stands up to him and makes his position inconvenient, he folds in PRIVATE. because in his world, anything that doesn't happen in full public view doesn't count. but in a situation like impeachment where he is backed into a very PUBLIC corner, he'll keep fighting until he's in jail or dead.

    JL

  25. [25] 
    Michale wrote:

    not a coup.

    By definition, an illegitimate impeachment is a coup..

    And, since we have a plethora of Democrats pointing out that this is an illegitimate impeachment.....

    "If the boooooot... fiitttssssss"
    -Woody, Toy Story II

    Regardless, it's the Democrat plant/stooge's position. Argue with him about it.. :D

    i think you and the author of the article fundamentally misunderstand donald's modus operandi.

    That's putting it mildly..

    "Oh com'on Arthur!! 'Dangerously irresponsible'??? That sounds almost gentlemanly.. She's a fucking lunatic!!"
    -General Ira Potter, THE FINAL OPTION

    But you are factually accurate.. Hatred and bigotry blind normally rational and logical people..

    yes, when somebody stands up to him and makes his position inconvenient, he folds in PRIVATE. because in his world, anything that doesn't happen in full public view doesn't count.

    I would point out that THAT is not an issue SOLELY attributed to President Trump..

    “If everybody’s watching, you know, all of the backroom discussions and the deals, you know, then people get a little nervous, to say the least. So you need both a public and a private position. You just have to sort of figure out how to — getting back to that word, ‘balance’ - how to balance the public and the private efforts that are necessary to be successful, politically, and that’s not just a comment about today.”
    -Hillary Clinton

    but in a situation like impeachment where he is backed into a very PUBLIC corner, he'll keep fighting until he's in jail or dead.

    Especially in the instances where President Trump is morally, legally and ethically in the right..

    jason: girl!
    janet: not a girl
    ~the good place

    Is the new season back on???

  26. [26] 
    Michale wrote:

    "There is an election coming up. Why do you Democrats let the people decide President Trump's fate??"
    -Trump Voter

    "Because we don't like what they decided last time."
    -Democrats and NeverTrumpers

    https://www.realclearpolitics.com/cartoons/images/2019/11/06/chip_bok_chip_bok_for_nov_06_2019_5_.jpg

    That says it all....

  27. [27] 
    C. R. Stucki wrote:

    Michale

    Often overlooked in the feverish Weigantian run-up to 2020, is the fact that there is a considerable possibility that Trump never was actually 'elected' president. There is a very real and often ignored possibility that in reality, what happened in Nov of 2016 was that Clinton was UN-elected.

    If that was what actually happened, and the Dems manage to come up with somebody who is actually capable of BEING elected, Trumps chances for 2020 would diminish.

  28. [28] 
    Kick wrote:

    Elizabeth Miller
    6

    If Democrats don't already get the gist of what you're saying in this piece, then they've already lost to Trump.

    No one has "already lost to Trump," Canada. *laughs*

  29. [29] 
    Kick wrote:

    Elizabeth Miller
    8

    Maybe there is a place for Mayor Bloomberg, certainly more so than Mayor Buttigieg. In my view, if Bloomberg feels the necessity to enter the race, then the Democrats are already doomed.

    No one is "already doomed" just because another candidate might enter the race, Canada. *laughs*

    We've seen a lack-luster, Trump-fixated Democratic presidential campaign before and it doesn't end well.

  30. [30] 
    Kick wrote:

    EDIT 29

    Elizabeth Miller
    8

    Maybe there is a place for Mayor Bloomberg, certainly more so than Mayor Buttigieg. In my view, if Bloomberg feels the necessity to enter the race, then the Democrats are already doomed.

    No one is "already doomed" just because another candidate might enter the race, Canada. *laughs*

    We've seen a lack-luster, Trump-fixated Democratic presidential campaign before and it doesn't end well.

    Past performance is no guarantee of future results. :)

  31. [31] 
    SF Bear wrote:

    OMG I thought Halloween was over. This is much scarier than any of your Halloween scenarios.

  32. [32] 
    Balthasar wrote:

    I have hope that Balthy continues his reality trek and eventually admits that President Trump will be re-elected..

    That's right - you missed the KY and Virginia elections. Charlie Cook says that Penn, WI, and MI are going the same way - suburbs, the anti-Trump kryptonite.

    And guess what? The impeachment makes no difference - except to rally Democrats!

    Trump can't 'draw to an inside straight' again. Cheating just got him into hot water.

    Hello, Russia?

  33. [33] 
    Michale wrote:

    CRS,

    Dems manage to come up with somebody who is actually capable of BEING elected

    In the wonderful world of *IFs*, THAT is likely the LARGEST "IF" of all...

  34. [34] 
    Kick wrote:

    Russ
    10

    Trump is not a fighter in any sense of the word — he is a coward.

    Exactly! Trump is a tough talking con artist who threatens people with with all manner of things and then hires lawyers and fixers who are expected to follow through on his verbal diarrhea.

    Just this morning, Trump suggested that the intelligence community whistleblower's lawyer should be "sued, maybe for treason." Somebody should notify Dumb-ass Donald treason isn't a civil action, and you can't be sued for treason!

    His biggest fear after being poor is going to prison, and he is going to do whatever it takes to avoid prison...but sadly he will not have the money he needs to avoid prison because the State of New York will be seizing all of his belongings for tax evasion.

    I am sure you already know that no one can take "all of his belongings" because by law a person is allowed to keep a certain amount of assets owed to creditors depending on the state in which they permanently reside, and I will give you one guess as to which state in the United States has the most broadly worded protections available to debtors wishing to shelter their assets from being attached by creditors. Yes, sir: Florida. Which is likely why after being born in New York and being a lifelong resident of said state, Donald (and Melania) just recently filed a "declaration of domicile" saying that the Mar-a-Lago Club in Palm Beach, Florida will be their permanent residence.

    The primary Florida exemption is the unlimited homestead exemption where the homestead of a debtor is completely protected from attachment by an unsecured creditor regardless of its value. In addition to the homestead exemption, pensions and other 401k interests are completely exempt from attachment as well as cash value of life insurance policies. Florida also has a very broad marital exemption which makes jointly held marital property difficult for a creditor to attach if the debt is due by only one spouse. It is not at all uncommon to see those in legal debt move to Florida.

    Unfortunately for Trump, though, after being a lifelong New Yorker who suddenly changes his residence to Florida when he's owned property there for multiple decades, they can still attach his assets via the Florida Uniform Fraudulent Transfer act since he's obviously making the move to avoid paying his creditors. It'll take longer to get, but Trump has spent his entire life defrauding creditors and screwing over a multitude of people and using the courts to stall collection by making them jump through hoops to get their money back from Trump. #SSDD

  35. [35] 
    Michale wrote:

    That's right - you missed the KY and Virginia elections.

    And, of course, you think that's relevant..

    In KY, the GOP ran a shitty candidate and the Dem was almost more GOP'er than the GOP candidate was..

    An anti-Abortion and Pro-Gun Democrat.

    THAT is your Dumbocrat standard-bearer??

    BBBWWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

    And guess what? The impeachment makes no difference - except to rally Democrats!

    Yea.. The END result that leaves President Trump in office, vindicated and exonerated...

    Yea.. THAT will really rally Democrats!!!

    BBBWWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

    What color IS the sky on your planet?? :D

  36. [36] 
    Balthasar wrote:

    Dems manage to come up with somebody who is actually capable of BEING elected. In the wonderful world of *IFs*, THAT is likely the LARGEST "IF" of all...

    Not so much. Biden is still riding high. Bloomburg is trying his usual run - which is interesting because he can blow so many holes in Trump's "billionaire" status...

  37. [37] 
    Balthasar wrote:

    An anti-Abortion and Pro-Gun Democrat. THAT is your Democratic standard-bearer?

    Yep. Blows your mind, doesn't it? And he took the seat away from a Trump-loving Republicant. You have to keep away from the inclination of putting us into liddle boxes. Doesn't work.

    Then there's Virginia, where the state went all blue on you - ouch!

    And even in Mississippi, where the Democrat nearly tied the vote - in Mississippi!

    Don't forget that we need less than one percent of the vote to win...

  38. [38] 
    nypoet22 wrote:

    By definition, an illegitimate impeachment is a coup..

    not by any definition i've ever heard of.

    "What ain't no country I ever heard of. Do they speak English in What?"
    -Pulp Fiction

  39. [39] 
    Balthasar wrote:

    Yea.. THAT will really rally Democrats!!!

    Obviously you're missing the point of the impeachment. Democrats are just champing at the bit to make Trump damaged goods - and succeeding beyond their dreams.

  40. [40] 
    Michale wrote:

    Not so much. Biden is still riding high. Bloomburg is trying his usual run - which is interesting because he can blow so many holes in Trump's "billionaire" status...

    So?? DO you HONESTLY believe that Bloomberg can add to ya'all's Trump hate and bigotry???

    Yep. Blows your mind, doesn't it?

    Not really.. Your Trump hate and bigotry knows no depth.. You would embrace William Gacy or Josef Stalin as long as they could defeat Trump..

    It's called being a slave to Party..

    And even in Mississippi, where the Democrat nearly tied the vote - in Mississippi!

    OK.. So, that means you would agree that the Dims win in Kentucky doesn't mean squat because it such a close win..

    Obviously you're missing the point of the impeachment.

    Ahhh.. So it's nothing but a political partisan attack..

    So, in other words, yer FINE with attempting to assassinate the President, as long as it damages him..

    It's NOT at all about removing him from office..

    Nice of you to declare your SOLE partisan intentions, no matter HOW bad it damages the country...

    I guess I nailed it pretty good when I said you were a Trump/America hater..

  41. [41] 
    Balthasar wrote:

    the Dims win in Kentucky doesn't mean squat because it such a close win..

    Yeah, but we got rid of Bevin... so it's a win.

    So it's nothing but a political partisan attack..

    I keep saying that. The fact that he broke the law gave us an in, and we're gonna take it.

    no matter HOW bad it damages the country.

    It'd be WAY worse if we leave him in office.

    What color IS the sky on your planet?

    Blue, deep blue.

  42. [42] 
    Michale wrote:

    Yeah, but we got rid of Bevin... so it's a win.

    But it's meaningless as it pertains to 2020..

    I keep saying that. The fact that he broke the law gave us an in, and we're gonna take it.

    OK... So you don't agree with ALL the Democrats who have said that Impeachment is a solemn duty, only to be undertaken under the most EXTREME and BI-PARTISAN of circumstances. That it is brutally harmful to this country..

    You don't agree with any of that..

    You simply look at it as a run-o-the-mill political tool, to be utilized with no more thought than one might spin what a GOP'er says..

    Like I said.. It's nice to have your hatred of this country and your bigotry declared..

  43. [43] 
    Balthasar wrote:

    DO you HONESTLY believe that Bloomberg can add to ya'all's Trump hate and bigotry?

    Bloomburg has a unique perspective. For one thing, he can call out Trump on his biggest claim - billionaire.

    Bloomburg released HIS taxes (so, by the way, did Buffet). Where are Trump's? What is he afraid of?

  44. [44] 
    Michale wrote:

    So, apparently, to Democrats here..

    Impeachment is nothing but a political ploy.. To be used and wielded with no more thought than any run o the mill political campaign add..

    I wonder if ya'all can appreciate how low ya'all have sunk..

    It's really sad to see...

  45. [45] 
    Michale wrote:

    Bloomburg has a unique perspective. For one thing, he can call out Trump on his biggest claim - billionaire.

    Which has NOTHING to do with the question I asked..

    Do you HONESTLY believe you can hate President Trump and this country more???

  46. [46] 
    Balthasar wrote:

    So you don't agree with ALL the Democrats who have said that Impeachment is a solemn duty, only to be undertaken under the most EXTREME and BI-PARTISAN of circumstances.

    Nice way to set the bar as high as possible, cause the framers certainly didn't think so, and neither did the Republicants that tried to impeach Clinton.

    Trump is unique - he broke the law. You need to LOVE your country to see that of course.

  47. [47] 
    Balthasar wrote:

    Gotta go get some coffee.

    I'll leave you with this, cause you keep trying it:

    Trump does NOT equal Country. Got it?

    Trump is one person, the Country is another thing.

    We can love our country, and still hate Trump.

    Got it? Good. See you later.

  48. [48] 
    Michale wrote:

    I mean, look at it.

    Benjamin Franklin likened impeachment to assassinating the President..

    "Impeachment is the legal form of assassination"

    And BALTHASAR believes that impeachment.. the legal alternative to ASSASSINATION, should be wielded as a mere run o the mill political partisan tool...

    I mean, WOW.. Don't get me wrong.. I always believed that's how much ya'all hated President Trump and this country..

    I just never thought that ya would articulate it so openly and nonchalantly...

    Color me gabber-flasted..

  49. [49] 
    Michale wrote:

    Trump does NOT equal Country. Got it?

    Again.. Not relevant..

    Outside of war, impeachment is THE most traumatic event that this country can endure...

    And YOU are willing to put this country thru that traumatic event SOLELY on the hopes that it MIGHT score you a political point or two...

    Someone who is willing to do that to this country MUST hate this country to their very soul...

    Like I said...

    Sad...

  50. [50] 
    Elizabeth Miller wrote:

    Michale,

    Would you settle for a very strong and non-brief statement of censure of Trump by the Senate?

  51. [51] 
    Michale wrote:

    Would you settle for a very strong and non-brief statement of censure of Trump by the Senate?

    I would settle for Democrats simply accepting the will of the people and working WITH President Trump for the betterment of the country...

    But I know that THAT will never happen..

    Barring that, and given what we have going on now, I don't think that Democrats backing off and accepting censure is possible. The base would rip the Democrat Party apart..

    No, Democrats have set this country inexorably on this path of destruction..

    But, to answer your question in the manner that you likely intended, I would happy to accept such a move as a compromise and would allow Democrats to save some face by giving up on impeachment and accepting censure as the best of all the bad options Democrats have created..

    The question you have to ask Democrats (start by asking the ones here :D) is will DEMOCRATS accept censure as a proper resolution... Or, at least, as the only resolution that spares Democrats and this country...

    Because, there is simply no doubt that Democrats will be hurt a LOT MORE by impeachment than President Trump will..

  52. [52] 
    Michale wrote:

    And while Liz asks all you Democrat her question, I'll ask ya'all mine.. :D

    Do ya'all agree with Balthy.. That it's perfectly OK, nay even a GOOD idea, to use Impeachment solely as a political partisan ploy in hopes of scoring a political point or two??

    Or do you agree with Democrats such as Pelosi, Biden, Nadler, Schiff, etc etc etc who claim that Impeachment is a very traumatic step to take.. A step that should only be pursued under the most dire of circumstances and THEN only if it can be done in a COMPLETELY bi-partisan manner???

    It's rather ironic, don'tcha think?? The ONLY bi-partisanship here is from the people who OPPOSE impeachment.. :D

    The irony flows like a river.. :D

  53. [53] 
    Kick wrote:

    In KY, the GOP ran a shitty candidate

    The so-called "shitty candidate" the "GOP ran" is the current Governor of Kentucky who is an attitude clone of Trump who latched himself onto Donald like a sucking parasitic leech... yet Mike attempts to characterize him as some sort of "unfortunate choice of candidate." *laughs*

    and the Dem was almost more GOP'er than the GOP candidate was..

    No, he absolutely was not.

    An anti-Abortion and Pro-Gun Democrat.

    That's just a lie regarding abortion, and on the vast majority of issues, Beshear is your standard garden-variety Southern Democrat:

    Reproductive Rights

    I support the Supreme Court’s decision in Roe v Wade. Women should be able to make their own reproductive healthcare decisions without interference from the government. I’ve repeatedly stood up to the legislature when they’ve tried to unconstitutionally undermine women’s rights, and I’ll continue to stand with Kentucky’s women as governor.

    https://andybeshear.com/on-the-issues/

    Pro marriage equality and marrying whom you love, pro ACA/Obamacare and restoring Medicare back to Kentuckians stripped thereof, pro teachers pension rights and increasing their pay, believes in climate change, pro equal pay for equal work, pro labor and therefore anti "Right-To-Work" laws that undermine the rights of workers, pro medical marijuana, pro voting rights and automatic voter registration and will sign an executive order that will automatically restore voting rights for Kentuckians with a non-violent felony.

    Beshear is not remotely more GOP than the Trump clone who lost Kentucky in a 30-point swing from 2016, and anyone who tells you otherwise is either lying or ignorant... or both.

  54. [54] 
    Kick wrote:

    Balthasar
    43

    Bloomburg released HIS taxes (so, by the way, did Buffet). Where are Trump's? What is he afraid of?

    Penalties, interest, and criminal tax indictments. See United States v. Manafort wherein Manafort was "fully exonerated of all charges"... according to the rubes. :)

  55. [55] 
    Michale wrote:

    California Gov. Gavin Newsom blasted for skipping funeral of deputy allegedly killed by illegal immigrants
    https://www.foxnews.com/us/california-gov-gavin-newsom-funeral-deputy-killed-illegal-immigrants

    California Gov proves he supports illegal immigrants and he hates cops..

    What an unadulterated scumbag...

  56. [56] 
    Kick wrote:

    Balthasar
    47

    Gotta go get some coffee.

    Great idea! Me too suddenly now.

    Trump does NOT equal Country. Got it?

    The Obama/America haters have trouble connecting dots... so don't hold your breath expecting critical thinking skills to emerge.

    We can love our country, and still hate Trump.

    We can definitely love our country, keep our sworn oaths to our country, but remember the fact that hate requires passion that is quite simply not worth wasting over the likes of Trump. Yes, sir... save your passion for our country.

    Peace out! :)

  57. [57] 
    ListenWhenYouHear wrote:

    Liz [11]

    Russ,

    Where will all of that leave your country?

    Shocked. Angry. Embarrassed.

    Shocked
    I think that the whole world will be shocked at the volume and seriousness of the criminal charges that will be brought against members of this administration the day Trump leaves office.

    We already know that Trump is the unindicted co-conspirator named in the guilty verdict handed down to his attorney, Michale Cohen.

    Mueller outlined almost a dozen instances of Trump committing obstruction of justice — and those were all instances that had been reported on by our media prior to the report being released.

    There is one part of the Mueller testimony that really stood out to me that I feel like the media glossed over: when Mueller states that he would not say specifically if Trump had committed a criminal offense because it would be unfair to Trump since he would not have the opportunity to defend himself in court against such allegations.

    That means that Mueller’s report would not have told us if his investigation determined that Trump had broken the law.

    The Mueller Report gave us plenty of information that incriminates Trump, but it is what Mueller’s report avoided mentioning that should make Trump worried — the results of the counterintelligence investigation.

    Trump is a compromised president. His fealty to Putin and Russia’s agenda has been obvious from day ONE of his campaign. Trump is the biggest counterintelligence threat that our country has ever had to deal with. Seriously, he is far worse than any worst-case scenario they could have ever dreamt up.

    Rick Gates, Manafort’s partner and Trump’s asst. campaign director, still has not been sentenced for his crimes that he pled guilty to almost two years ago. Why the delay? They need him to testify against someone before they will recommend that he serve no time for his crimes.

    Angry

    When the evidence showing the depths of Trumps’ criminal presidency are made public, there will be a lot of anger directed at the GOP...and rightfully so!

    They will try to claim that they were just as surprised as everyone else to learn the details about Trump’s crimes. But then the press will replay that video of Paul Ryan, Kevin McCarthy, and others sitting around discussing who they thought was being paid by Russia, and everyone agreed that Trump definitely was.

    The maddest will be their base, those who stuck by Trump and wore their blinders proudly; until they finally just disintegrated under the evidence against him. There will be a few nut jobs and conspiracy theorists who will try to spin it favorably for Trump, but even they might be so disgusted with him as to keep their thoughts to theirselves.

    And we will be pissed at our intelligence agencies for not stepping in sooner to put a stop to Trump’s illegal administration, but we will have to recognize that they could do nothing to stop him while he was in office. We will be pissed that our laws allowed such a criminal to rule over us and the only thing that could have stopped him was the Republicans in Congress. We, the People, will see that we can no longer trust our elected officials to put country over their Party, and we will demand laws that make the president face criminal indictments just like every other citizen would.

    FoxNews will see its numbers drop significantly as viewers realize that they trusted the wrong people to keep them informed!

    Embarrassed

    We will be embarrassed as a nation for what we have allowed to happen. And we should be. Hopefully, we will see how divided we allowed ourselves to become by listening to and accepting the lies we were being fed. I pray that honesty will become a trait that we demand from those in authority. We will be humbled...how could we not be?

  58. [58] 
    Michale wrote:

    "Amazing. Everything you just said was wrong."
    -Luke Skywalker

  59. [59] 
    Michale wrote:

    Once again.. A reality check is in order..

    After all, this is (or rather WAS) a reality-based forum..

    The *ONLY* way this faux impeachment coup ends is with President Trump still in office and Democrats demoralized BECAUSE President Trump is still in office..

    That's it. That is what ALL these efforts will amount to..

    President Trump remains in office..

    Anyone who disagrees is delusional...

  60. [60] 
    Michale wrote:

    The curious timeline for taking down Trump

    It’s three full years since President Trump was elected.

    Among those who predicted he could never win the election — or that he might have been conspiring with Hillary Clinton all along, worked for Russia’s President Vladimir Putin, would crash the U.S. stock market his first week in office, would ban all Muslims, would send illegal immigrants home en masse on buses and trains, and would start a nuclear war — there have been real concerns.

    But to others, there are different concerns that have borne out. We continue to get evidence of an orchestrated effort among government insiders and the well-connected to take down President Trump at all costs. The public evidence indicates that the effort was hatched even before he took office.

    Trump critics would argue that there was good reason to devise plots against him before he was inaugurated. His supporters would argue that the opposition has crossed the line into unlawful actions involving wiretapping and attempts to frame Trump and his associates.

    In any event, we can build an oversimplified timeline to make the point:
    https://thehill.com/opinion/white-house/469504-the-curious-timeline-for-taking-down-trump

    This is why it's so laughable that ya'all claim President Trump has done something to deserve impeachment..

    Ya'all wrote this script on 10 Nov 2016....

    To think this was not all pre-ordained is to ignore the facts and to ignore reality..

  61. [61] 
    Michale wrote:

    Balthy,

    Nice way to set the bar as high as possible, cause the framers certainly didn't think so,

    Really?? Do you have FACTS to support this?? No, of course you don't.. Yer just spewing bullshit, same as always..

    and neither did the Republicants that tried to impeach Clinton.

    So.. Yer goal is to be like Republicans...

    At least you admit it..

    Trump is unique - he broke the law.

    Yea??? And the FACTS to support this???

    NON-EXISTENT...

    Clinton broke the law as well. So, apparently, you don't mind a president who breaks the law, as long as he has a -D after his name...

    Hypocrite...

  62. [62] 
    Kick wrote:

    Russ
    57

    They will try to claim that they were just as surprised as everyone else to learn the details about Trump’s crimes. But then the press will replay that video of Paul Ryan, Kevin McCarthy, and others sitting around discussing who they thought was being paid by Russia, and everyone agreed that Trump definitely was.

    It's audio, Russ... compliments of Evan McMullin, former CIA... old habits die hard.

  63. [63] 
    ListenWhenYouHear wrote:

    Question.. Weren't you "fairly confident" that Hillary would be elected president??

    I sure was. Want to know who else was? Donald Trump!

    Were you not also "fairly confident" that President Trump would be removed from office over Russia Collusion???

    Did I believe that the Mueller report would have led to Trump being removed from office? Yes, I did. And as I explained to Liz above, I still believe that it will result in Trump being indicted — and Mueller explained why the investigation could never deliver the results that I had wanted.

    I mean, seriously.. You said "I feel fairly confident" as if it actually MEANS something.. As if it has ANY basis in reality...

    CONGRATULATIONS! You recognize that I was stating my OPINION. I know that you normally refer to them as FACTS, but they are simply OPINIONS!

    You claim Trump was a brilliantly successful businessman, and you think that anyone believes that your grasp on what constitutes “reality” should be trusted?

    I mean, you seem perfectly fine with Trump’s public admission in court that he stole over $2 million in donations meant for helping different veteran organizations and spent it on himself and his campaign!

    Kind of like when he told service members in Iraq that he had personally fought to secure them a 10% pay raise they would soon get after they had gone without a pay raise for Obama’s entire presidency! Neither of those things were true, but remind us all again how Trump is behind our service members more than Obama ever was!

    Oh wait, is this one of those times that you claim that you do not ever offer your own views of Trumps actions, you are just here to troll us — so you can avoid having to answer for your own idiotic claims?

  64. [64] 
    Balthasar wrote:

    Sharyl Attkisson (@SharylAttkisson) is an Emmy Award-winning investigative journalist, author of The New York Times best-sellers “The Smear” and “Stonewalled,” and host of Sinclair’s Sunday TV program, “Full Measure.”

    Yeah, sure. Another Trump sycophant, who starts her timeline well into the crime. Typical.

  65. [65] 
    Balthasar wrote:

    He attacks Trump regularly, at times with incorrect information.

    I wonder how she defines "incorrect" information. Probably as anything she doesn't agree with.

    :eyeroll:

  66. [66] 
    ListenWhenYouHear wrote:

    Kick,

    I did not realize Florida provided such protections from debt collectors. But does Florida have any say in what the Fed’s can go after? I am betting the Fed’s will go after Trump using RICO statutes, which will allow for the government to seize just about everything they find. Between NY state, the IRS, and the criminal prosecutor’s in the Southern District of the DOJ, I cannot image Trump being able to hold on to much. I hope that they will recognize how important it is for the public to have faith in our judicial system to see all men as created equally, and will make an example of Trump!

    Thanks for clearing up that is was an audio recording of Ryan and McCarthy saying they believed Trump was compromised. I dunno why I keep remembering it being a very rough video recording in low light that you see their faces for only a second, and then we can only see their torsos but we can hear them just fine. God knows we have had so much evidence paraded in plain view for so long as to Trump’s criminal ties that it all starts to run together after a while!

  67. [67] 
    ListenWhenYouHear wrote:

    To think this was not all pre-ordained is to ignore the facts and to ignore reality..

    How were the Democrats able to know what illegal actions Trump would commit before he went out and committed them for this to all be “pre-ordained”?

    I love how upset Trump supporters get at the idea that Trump might have had his phone calls monitored by our intelligence agencies as if it was done without cause — completely ignoring the literally hundreds of lies that Trump has been caught making regarding his relationship with Russia.

  68. [68] 
    ListenWhenYouHear wrote:

    Whoops...

    To think this was not all pre-ordained is to ignore the facts and to ignore reality..

    How were the Democrats able to know what illegal actions Trump would commit before he went out and committed them for this to all be “pre-ordained”?

    I love how upset Trump supporters get at the idea that Trump might have had his phone calls monitored by our intelligence agencies as if it was done without cause — completely ignoring the literally hundreds of lies that Trump has been caught making regarding his relationship with Russia.

  69. [69] 
    Kick wrote:

    California Gov proves he supports illegal immigrants and he hates cops..

    What an unadulterated scumbag...

    Fox News triggers the rubes who whine incessantly about reality while spewing back Fox shit like this. Nobody tell the Fox News right-wingnut whores that Trump didn't attend the funeral either and doesn't generally attend funerals for police officers -- not unlike every other high profile public servant -- because he'd be doing nothing but attending funerals all the time and likely be accused of making a funeral about himself rather than the slain officer on which it should focus.

    If Newsom had attended the funeral instead of sending a representative in his place like he did, Fox News and the spoon-fed morons would still be whining about it regardless because same shit different day.

    I've said it before, and I'll say it again: These GOP/Tea Party constantly whining moronic asshats are not capable of connecting the dots because they have no critical thinking skills. It's pathetic really, but you can't fix the permanently stuck-on-stupid right-wingnut rubes when they are so obviously such gullible marks and so easily triggered.

  70. [70] 
    ListenWhenYouHear wrote:

    California Gov proves he supports illegal immigrants and he hates cops..

    What an unadulterated scumbag...

    About the only thing worse is someone who lies about their over 25 years working in law enforcement!

  71. [71] 
    ListenWhenYouHear wrote:

    Kick,

    Did ya hear in Donald Trump Jr.’s new book he discusses how while driving by the Arlington National Cemetery thinking of the sacrifice that all those individuals made for their country, he started getting emotional — at the thought of the millions of dollars he would be forced to sacrifice by not making foreign deals while his father was the president?!?!

    Seriously? He compared dying in service to our country to not being allowed to profit off his father’s position! I cannot wait to hear how “true patriots” defend this one!

    What a heroic sized douchebag!

  72. [72] 
    ListenWhenYouHear wrote:

    Do ya'all agree with Balthy.. That it's perfectly OK, nay even a GOOD idea, to use Impeachment solely as a political partisan ploy in hopes of scoring a political point or two??

    I’ll play along....

    First, thanks for starting out this whole line of questioning by asking us whether we agree with something that Balthy never actually stated! Classy as ever!

    And since Trump has openly admitted to breaking the law and his oath of office, this impeachment process is not a a political partisan ploy in hopes of scoring a political point or two??

    Or do you agree with Democrats such as Pelosi, Biden, Nadler, Schiff, etc etc etc who claim that Impeachment is a very traumatic step to take.. A step that should only be pursued under the most dire of circumstances and THEN only if it can be done in a COMPLETELY bi-partisan manner???

    I completely agree with this. And as you so nicely pointed out the other day, impeachment only occurs if the Senate votes in favor of it. The only way Trump can be impeached is if there is a bi-partisan agreement that he violated the offenses as outlined in the article’s of impeachment.

    What I find strange is that you seem to know that the Republicans in the Senate will not vote against Trump! How can a juror know how he will vote before any evidence has even been presented? Oh wait, are you suggesting that the Republican senators cannot be trusted to obey their oath to the constitution and will decide how they will vote prior to hearing the case?

    I mean, next thing you’ll try to tell me is that Republican Senators refuse to even consider any of the evidence against Trump after promising that they would if anyone could provide such evidence! I cannot believe you’d accuse Republicans of such unpatriotic offenses!

  73. [73] 
    TheStig wrote:

    I just finished watching the evening news. OMG! What skin condition is affliciting the President's head? His facial flesh looks low density foam rubber...like a Muppet's. Any High Def closeup is inherently unflattering, but I can't help thinking he might need a new kidney. According to the President he select an organ donor off the street.

    It's good to be king!

  74. [74] 
    Kick wrote:

    Russ
    66

    I did not realize Florida provided such protections from debt collectors. But does Florida have any say in what the Fed’s can go after?

    Oh, hell no, and right you are! I was referring to all Trump's other creditors and not governmental entities. You know that old saying: "Death and taxes." There's no escaping the IRS if you're a tax cheat and money launderer since fraud penalties can never be eliminated in bankruptcy, but there are limits on what the IRS can seize and statute of limitations, although there is no statute of limitations on civil tax fraud.

    I am betting the Fed’s will go after Trump using RICO statutes, which will allow for the government to seize just about everything they find.

    RICO punishment is primarily prison since the maximum fine for a single RICO charge is generally 20 years imprisonment and a $250,000 fine or twice the proceeds of the offense.

    Between NY state, the IRS, and the criminal prosecutor’s in the Southern District of the DOJ, I cannot image Trump being able to hold on to much.

    Well, he could, but that's because Trump insulates himself from the law by throwing other people under the bus... always. If they have the evidence against him dead to right, he'll tie it up in court, settle, or throw somebody else under the bus. That's what criminals do, and that's why I said... "Rudy, meet bus... bus, Rudy." I admit I could be wrong about this; perhaps it'll be Sondland meeting the bus... but someone will be driven over to defend Hair Dick Tater's abuse of power.

    I hope that they will recognize how important it is for the public to have faith in our judicial system to see all men as created equally, and will make an example of Trump!

    Don't hold your breath... and for the very reason you mentioned: Trump will claim certifiable dementia in order to avoid prison and likely settle any fines out of court in the same manner he and his spawn agreed to pay $2,000,000 for their crimes committed in New York State through their slush fund they referred to as a "foundation."

    Thanks for clearing up that is was an audio recording of Ryan and McCarthy saying they believed Trump was compromised. I dunno why I keep remembering it being a very rough video recording in low light that you see their faces for only a second, and then we can only see their torsos but we can hear them just fine. God knows we have had so much evidence paraded in plain view for so long as to Trump’s criminal ties that it all starts to run together after a while!

    I know, right!? Do you remember what else they were discussing during that exchange caught via audio? Russia hacking the DNC and their propaganda campaigns against Ukraine and Europe and the United States. The GOP isn't stupid regarding the facts; they're enablers.

    Read the verbatim transcript of the audio here:

    https://assets.documentcloud.org/documents/3726371/Read-the-transcript-of-the-conversation-among.pdf

  75. [75] 
    Kick wrote:

    Russ
    71

    Did ya hear in Donald Trump Jr.’s new book he discusses how while driving by the Arlington National Cemetery thinking of the sacrifice that all those individuals made for their country, he started getting emotional — at the thought of the millions of dollars he would be forced to sacrifice by not making foreign deals while his father was the president?!?!

    Seriously? It's like the Trump spawn are ignorant of the fact that their father did not divest from his holdings before assuming office. Hey, gullible rubes... pay no attention to Trump Towers in Greece and other countries and nearly a dozen hotels, etc., and the two dozen or so golf courses around the world. We don't launder foreign money anymore. Too risky! Oh, Ivanka's China trademarks? Pay no attention to those. Oh, our father's disclosure forms listing the continued existence of Trump properties around the world? Pay no attention to those and the fact we're still taking lots and lots of foreign money in violation of the Emoluments Clause, but the idiots and rubes will believe what they're told.

    The Trump lying spawn aren't stupid; they just know how infinitely gullible their ignorant cult rubes are.

    I cannot wait to hear how “true patriots” defend this one!

    They can't... but it won't stop their juvenile babbling and repetitive ignorance at trying and forever flailing.

    What a heroic sized douchebag!

    Not fair to douchebags! :)

Leave a Reply

[If you have questions as to how to register or log in, to be able to post comments here, or if you'd like advanced commenting and formatting tips, please visit our "Commenting Tips" page, for further details.]

You must be logged in to post a comment.
If you are a new user, please register so you can post comments here.

[The first time you post a comment (after creating your user name and logging in), it will be held for approval. Please be patient (as it may take awhile). After your first comment has been approved, you will be able to post further comments instantly and automatically.]