ChrisWeigant.com

Two Women Won The Debates

[ Posted Monday, July 1st, 2019 – 17:18 UTC ]

The poll numbers are starting to trickle in, and what is becoming apparent is that women won both nights of last week's first round of 2020 Democratic presidential debates. The first night belonged to Elizabeth Warren (which was exactly as expected), and Kamala Harris won the second night (which came as much more of a surprise). In the first presidential debates in history with multiple women onstage, these two ladies outperformed the gentlemen, hands down. It wasn't even close.

That is good news for the two candidates, but it is also good news for the overall state of American politics and good news for the Democratic Party. Women -- both suburban women and women of color -- provided the decisive edge in the 2018 midterm victory, meaning currently they are the most important demographic in the Democratic coalition. Having two women emerge victorious from the first debates means those voters are being represented quite well, which bodes well for the 2020 general election and beyond.

Snap polls taken right after the debates showed that Harris and Warren were both surging in the electability and favorability categories, much more so than anyone else sharing the stage with them. Two other major polls just out show that Joe Biden is losing ground while Kamala Harris is gaining a lot of ground, probably at his expense. The results were more mixed for the other two candidates polling in the double digits, Elizabeth Warren and Bernie Sanders. But what has become clear that for roughly the next month (until the next debates happen, that is), this group of four can now all be considered the frontrunners.

The poll which showed the most dramatic movement came from CNN/SRSS. In it, Joe Biden leads the pack with 22 percent, but second and third place has been claimed by the women, with Harris at 17 percent and Warren at 15 percent. Bernie Sanders brings up the back of this pack of four, at 14 percent. These results were more astonishing when compared with the previous poll run by CNN, which took place at the end of May. A month before the debates, the numbers stood at Biden (32 percent), Sanders (18), Harris (8), and Warren (7). This means that both women more than doubled their support in one month's time, while the men fell back -- in Biden's case, by a whopping 10 points.

This may be overly dramatic in some respects, because there was already a lot of movement leading up to the debates last week, which happened after that previous CNN poll's results had been announced. Warren had been enjoying a mini-surge even before the debates began, so her rise of 8 points was likely not all (or even mostly) influenced by her debate performance. But Harris had been stagnant all month, so her rise of 9 points is even more impressive in comparison, because virtually all of it can be chalked up to her decisive debate performance. Both Biden and Bernie had also seen their poll numbers slip a bit in advance of the debate, although Biden's debate performance almost certainly influenced his steep dropoff (of roughly one-third of his support -- a huge proportion).

This poll may turn out to be an outlier, however. A Morning Consult poll showed a less-dramatic shift in the race, which was still very good news for Kamala Harris. The poll had Biden at the top with 33 percent, Bernie with 19 percent, and Harris and Warren tied for third with 12 percent each. The change in each candidate's numbers was less dramatic, since the previous poll was more recent. Biden lost 5 points, falling from 38 percent. Bernie Sanders didn't budge an inch from the 19 percent he had previously. Harris, however, again doubled her support, from 6 percent to 12, while Warren actually fell a point from 13 percent.

The only other numbers even worth mentioning from either poll were for Pete Buttigieg, who didn't exactly have a breakout moment but then again didn't do any real damage during the debate. In the CNN poll, Mayor Pete has only 4 percent, but he does better in the Morning Consult poll with 6 percent. These rather tepid numbers give him clear control of fifth place though, as three others struggle to even break 5 percent in the CNN poll -- Cory Booker (3 percent), Beto O'Rourke (3 percent), and Amy Klobuchar (2 percent). No other candidate -- meaning "none of the other 17 of them" -- had more than a single percent support.

As things stand, these eight -- Biden, Sanders, Harris, Warren, Buttigieg, Booker, O'Rourke, and Klobuchar -- are the only ones who would qualify for the third round of debates, which would mean a much more manageable crowd on a single night's stage. That's a brutal winnowing of the field, but it has to happen at some point. Barring any enormous breakout moments in the second round of debates, these eight candidates will be the ones who have shown the minimal support needed to be considered even viable.

Of the four frontrunners, Biden is noticeably bleeding support. He's in full damage-control mode, because his team knows that if they lose their decisive edge with African-American voters, then he's nowhere near as inevitable as everyone has so far believed. Biden's record also leaves him open to attacks on more than just the question of busing in the 1970s, as well. Nobody has really hit Biden over his support for the bankruptcy law he was instrumental in getting passed, or his likewise-instrumental role in the 1994 crime bill. Just think -- if a fight about a 1970s racial issue caused this much disruption in the Democratic race, what could a fight about the 1990s do to Biden? Biden's biggest risk is appearing unapologetic for what is seen today as being on the wrong side of some very key issues. And so far, Biden is refusing to apologize for anything he's ever done. Perhaps Barack Obama should sit him down and remind him of the concept of "evolving" your own political positions when the country changes its mind about some things?

As for the other frontrunners, Bernie Sanders is showing that his floor and his ceiling are pretty close together -- he's convinced his core of supporters, but hasn't expanded much beyond them. And he's going to have to fight for even dominating the progressive vote, because Elizabeth Warren is going to give him a real run for the money for that slice of the Democratic base. The matchup between the two could become just as interesting as the jockeying between Harris and Biden, in fact, but that would almost require them to draw the same debate night in the second round.

Harris faces her own risks, heading into the second debate. She genuinely looked like a Democrat worthy of taking on Donald Trump on the first debate stage, and that's what the primary election may come down to -- who the voters believe can best "prosecute the case" (to borrow her words) against Trump and everything he's done. The voters are definitely looking for a fighter, and Harris more than proved worthy of that label in the first debate.

However, due to her rise in the polls, Harris is now going to become just as much a target as Biden in the next round. All the minor candidates are going to be looking to score points off her, and she's already shown vulnerability in waffling on the question of how much she supports the "Medicare For All" concept. Look for this -- as well as some of the more questionable things she has done as California's attorney general -- to become focal points for those attacking her next time. This will become even more pronounced if Harris and Biden don't draw the same night again next time, since that way there won't be the tension between them on display.

Barring any other surprising poll results -- by which I mean some other candidate suddenly surging into the double digits -- there is one clear choice that the Democratic National Committee needs to make, as soon as possible. In the first debates, they tried to avoid the "kiddie table / adult table" division by holding two separate drawings to randomize who appeared on which night. The candidates polling at two percent or better all drew together, to mix them up in an attempt to avoid frontloading one single night. The random result, however, was that four of the top five candidates all appeared on the same stage.

Next time around, they should limit it even further, so that the top-tier draw only includes those polling at five percent or better. Or they should just flat-out limit the top-tier draw to: "the four candidates doing best in the polling." Right now, this would mean two first-tier candidates from the grouping of Biden, Sanders, Warren, and Harris on each of the two nights -- which would mean more balance on both nights.

Whether they adopt this change or not, the next round of debates is going to be even livelier than the first, that much seems certain. For some reason, the D.N.C. is skipping August, so the third debate won't happen for two long months after the second. And please remember that the third debate will have much more stringent entry qualifications. This means that the second debate may be the last chance for almost a dozen-and-a-half candidates in the field to make their mark. If they don't have a breakthrough moment on stage next time around, their campaigns will be functionally over at that point. Whether they officially drop out or continue some sort of vanity campaign after that point, they're not going to get much attention at all -- the mainstream media will completely sideline them. In fact, if the second-quarter fundraising numbers are particularly bad, some of them might not even make it to the second debate at all.

Setting future predictions aside, though, it was pretty clear that the first round of Democratic debates crowned two clear victors. Elizabeth Warren won the first night, as was expected after the draw pitted her against candidates doing far worse than her in the polls. And Kamala Harris won the second night, which was a breakout surprise to many. The polls are going to take another week or so to settle down and accurately reflect what the voters are thinking now about all the candidates, but it is worth pointing out that in the first presidential contest in American history with multiple women candidates fighting for one party's nomination, two women dominated all the men onstage at the first debate. That, in and of itself, is a historic achievement.

-- Chris Weigant

 

Follow Chris on Twitter: @ChrisWeigant

 

56 Comments on “Two Women Won The Debates”

  1. [1] 
    neilm wrote:

    QAnon just leaked that the Trump 2020 campaign donated $1M to Biden 2020 10 minutes after the debate.

  2. [2] 
    neilm wrote:

    Kamala's got it. She is the one with the iron balls needed to whip Trump without even trying.

    A bloodbath. I'd feel sorry if he hadn't, with more stupidity than malice, humiliated America. Not a permanent stain, but worse than Bush 2.

    Time for all the decent people I've met everywhere in America to stand up and be counted. Time to stand up and tell America and the World that we are to be respected and trusted to lead again.

    Time to make America great again after 4 years of ignorance and stupidity.

  3. [3] 
    ListenWhenYouHear wrote:

    Nobody has really hit Biden over his support for the bankruptcy law he was instrumental in getting passed, or his likewise-instrumental role in the 1994 crime bill. Just think -- if a fight about a 1970s racial issue caused this much disruption in the Democratic race, what could a fight about the 1990s do to Biden?

    I thought that the Crime Bill was supported by many of the African American leaders of the time in the hopes that it might end some of the inner city violence that had infected most large cities?

    It’s one thing to have supported legislation that was clearly known to be bad for society if it passed, but I have a problem blaming folks for supporting what was at the time, viewed as “good legislation” and only decades later do we know better. I cannot fault someone for trying to do good decades ago, even if it had some unforeseen negative results.

  4. [4] 
    Michale wrote:

    Of the four frontrunners, Biden is noticeably bleeding support. He's in full damage-control mode,

    Yep.. As the old adage goes.. If yer explaining, yer losing..

    Whether they adopt this change or not, the next round of debates is going to be even livelier than the first, that much seems certain. For some reason, the D.N.C. is skipping August, so the third debate won't happen for two long months after the second. And please remember that the third debate will have much more stringent entry qualifications. This means that the second debate may be the last chance for almost a dozen-and-a-half candidates in the field to make their mark. If they don't have a breakthrough moment on stage next time around, their campaigns will be functionally over at that point.

    I am confused.. You talk about the "second debate" as if it hasn't happened yet.. ????

  5. [5] 
    Michale wrote:

    ‘Her ambition got it wrong about Joe’: Harris faces debate backlash
    Biden supporters lash out against Kamala Harris.

    SAN FRANCISCO — Kamala Harris might be reveling in her sudden burst of attention after roasting Joe Biden over racial issues on the debate stage last week, but a backlash is already brewing.

    Biden supporters and Democrats who have attended the former vice president’s events in the days after the first nationally televised debate, are describing Harris’ assault on Biden as an all-too-calculated overreach after she knocked him on his heels in a grilling over busing and his remarks on segregationist senators.

    “She played low ball, which was out of character. And he didn’t expect it, nor did I,” said Lee White, a Biden supporter who attended his remarks at the Jesse Jackson Rainbow PUSH Coalition. “She should not have gone that route. She’s much too intelligent, she’s been able to be successful thus far, why do you have to do that.”

    One major Biden supporter from California who declined to be named for publication said Harris’ direct attack on Biden was a mistake that would haunt her.

    “It’s going to bite her in the ass,” the supporter noted. “Very early on there was buzz … Biden-Kamala is the dream ticket, the best of both worlds.’’
    https://www.politico.com/story/2019/06/30/kamala-harris-joe-biden-2020-1391212

    I had thought that Harris was going to be the Dem nominee.. Now I am not so sure... She sure lost Biden supporters..

  6. [6] 
    Michale wrote:

    Raging AOC says border agents make detainees drink from TOILETS but officials DENY that as Democrat says CBP wages 'psychological warfare' on women and laughed at her during tour
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7201939/Border-patrol-agents-shared-Photoshopped-images-AOC-performing-oral-sex-secret-Facebook-group.html/

    Awwwwwww po' widdle Occasional Cortex gots her panties all up in a bunch because she was laughed at..

    If she wouldn't be so damn comical, no one would laugh at her..

    :eyeroll:

  7. [7] 
    Michale wrote:

    Hay.. If the illegal immigrant criminals are treated so badly, then they should stay in Mexico while their asylum claims are adjudicated, right??

    They are committing crimes to BE here.... It's THEIR choice...

    Now, I don't believe for a second what Occasional Cortex says about the detention facilities.. She is a proven liar and malcontent..

    I am sure it's not pleasant for the detained illegal immigrant criminals..

    But it's THEIR choice to be there... They could have stayed in Mexico instead of illegally crossing into our country..

    They do the crime, they do the time..

    It's THAT simple...

  8. [8] 
    Michale wrote:

    Antifa Members Have Repeatedly Attacked Journalists Who Cover Them

    Members of the violent left-wing movement Antifa have repeatedly harassed and attacked members of the media who cover them.

    Masked individuals at an Antifa rally Saturday violently attacked Portland journalist Andy Ngo, sending him to the hospital.

    While some members of the national media — including CNN hosts Don Lemon and Chris Cuomo — have been sympathetic toward Antifa in the past, that hasn’t kept Antifa members from attacking the journalists actually covering them on the ground.

    The U.S. Press Freedom Tracker, a collaboration led by the Freedom of the Press Foundation and the Committee to Protect Journalists, includes numerous instances of “anti-fascist” agitators harassing and assaulting journalists since Trump took office.

    Protesters at an Antifa rally in Charlottesville, Virginia, harassed and attacked an NBC crew in August 2018. NBC reporter Cal Perry tweeted out a video of the attack.
    https://dailycaller.com/2019/07/01/andy-ngo-antifa-attack-journalists-list/

    And yet.. Democrats still call AntiFa the good guys and "courageous Americans".. :eyeroll:

    Which proves Democrats are no better than what they accuse Trump supporters of..

  9. [9] 
    Michale wrote:

    "If you cheat trying to get into college, you go to jail.
    But, if you cheat trying to get into America, you get free college. This is where we are going as a country."

    That is Democrat Party "logic" at work...

  10. [10] 
    Michale wrote:

    Lurching left: Are Democrats blowing their chance to beat Trump?

    It's standard practice in presidential politics: Candidates move to the left (or right) to win the nomination, then tack toward the center in the general election.

    But the Democrats are in danger of marching so far left that they go over a cliff.

    That's not just my view. Mainstream reporters, who tend to be less sensitive to liberal positions that match their personal views, are openly acknowledging and debating the dramatic shift. It was even on the front page of The New York Times.

    For those whose most fervent desire is to evict Donald Trump from the White House, there's growing concern that the Democrats are blowing it.
    https://www.foxnews.com/politics/lurching-left-are-democrats-blowing-their-chance-to-beat-trump

    Are Democrats lurching to far Left?? Are Democrats blowing their chance to beat President Trump?

    Why yes... Yes they are...

    How does the Democrat Candidate come back to the center from the far Left position they have staked out??

    Answer: They can't...

  11. [11] 
    Michale wrote:

    Dems, Please Don’t Drive Me Away
    The dynamic pulling the party leftward.

    I could never in a million years vote for Donald Trump. So my question to Democrats is: Will there be a candidate I can vote for?

    According to a recent Gallup poll, 35 percent of Americans call themselves conservative, 35 percent call themselves moderate and 26 percent call themselves liberal. The candidates at the debates this week fall mostly within the 26 percent. The party seems to think it can win without any of the 35 percent of us in the moderate camp, the ones who actually delivered the 2018 midterm win.
    https://www.nytimes.com/2019/06/27/opinion/democratic-debate-2020.html

    I would love to hear comments on this massive push to the Left we have seen...

    Good for the Democrat Party?? Bad for the Democrat Party??

  12. [12] 
    Michale wrote:

    The party is moving toward all sorts of positions that drive away moderates and make it more likely the nominee will be unelectable. And it’s doing it without too much dissent.

  13. [13] 
    Michale wrote:

    I would love to hear comments on this massive push to the Left we have seen...

    I am betting that many here will deny it's even occurring... :^/

  14. [14] 
    Michale wrote:

    New Florida law allows medics to carry firearms when responding to 'high-risk' operations
    https://www.foxnews.com/us/florida-law-medics-carry-firearms-high-risk-operations

    Florida leads the way in common sense... :D

  15. [15] 
    Don Harris wrote:

    Is two a larger number than 300 million?

    If not, then an article aboot two women that "won" the debate is just bullshit to try to obscure the fact that 300 million citizens lost the debate.

    Neilm is right that it's time for the decent people in America to stand up and be counted.

    He is wrong that we need to make America great again after four years of ignorance and stupidity.

    America has never been great. It may at times have been better than many or even any other country, but being great has only been a goal to strive for and not anything we have achieved.

    Greatness is not achieved by grading with a curve. That would be the equivalent of saying the big money Democrats are good because they are not as bad as the big money Republicans.

    It has been much more than four years of ignorance and stupidity. The ignorance and stupidity is not limited to Trump.

    Even CW admitted in a recent article that Trump is the symptom. And what Trump is the symptom of is the narrative that there are only two choices and citizens have to settle for not as bad because it is too risky to try for adequate which could lead to the worse choice being elected despite the fact that offering not as bad has often led to the worse choice being elected anyway and the not as bad has barely on rare occasions achieved even the not as bad level while in office that they promised while campaigning.
    (no wonder Democrats have so much trouble with clarity and explanations when that is what they have to make clear and explain)

    It's just show put on for the rubes. And if you buy it then you are one of the rubes.

    There was an interesting segment yesterday on Washington Journal aboot a survey that asked Democrats and Republicans what they thought the "other side" believed. The perception of what the other side believed did not match up well with what the other side actually believed. There was much more common ground than either side believed.

    This shows that the divide and conquer good cop/bad cop strategy is working.

    And articles like this do nothing to put a stop to this false narrative that all we can do is minimize the damage of our decline by settling for not as bad.

    It's time to grow a pair and stand up to make America better.

    Get REAL.

  16. [16] 
    Michale wrote:

    Kamala's got it. She is the one with the iron balls needed to whip Trump without even trying.

    Yea???

    Which Americans are going to vote for the candidate that promises to get rid of Health Insurance that 70% of Americans like and want to keep??

    Which Americans are going to vote for the candidate that promises to reward illegal immigrant criminals with free health care and free college??

    Maybe 10% of Americans, that's who..

    You want to hand President Trump a landslide victory??

    Nominate Kamala I SLEPT MY WAY TO MY SENATE SEAT Harris...

  17. [17] 
    Michale wrote:

    America has never been great. It may at times have been better than many or even any other country, but being great has only been a goal to strive for and not anything we have achieved.

    We'll just have to agree to disagree... :D

  18. [18] 
    Don Harris wrote:

    Michale-
    Considering the fact that the Democrats of today are to the right of Nixon and Reagan, any move to the left now is still just moving to the center.

    This is a perfect example of the false narrative and grading on a curve referred to in comment 15.

    All you have proven is that there are plenty of rubes.

    Why should we care what they think when they have proven that they can't think?

    And by validating the stupidity you are also proving that you can't think.

  19. [19] 
    Don Harris wrote:

    No, we don't have to agree to disagree.

    You believe the fantasy is real and reality says otherwise.

  20. [20] 
    Michale wrote:

    You believe the fantasy is real and reality says otherwise.

    Using my own debate strategy on me won't work..

    The facts are completely on my side.. :D

  21. [21] 
    Michale wrote:

    So let's leave it alone 'cause we can't see eye to eye
    There ain't no good guy, there ain't no bad guy...
    There's only you and me and we just disagree...

    -Dave Mason, WE JUST DISAGREE

  22. [22] 
    Don Harris wrote:

    "The facts are completely on my side. :D"

    Okay, that was funny. Oh so wrong...but funny.

  23. [23] 
    C. R. Stucki wrote:

    My experience has been that women win ALL debates!

  24. [24] 
    Michale wrote:

    Hispanic pastors tour border facility lambasted by AOC and say they are ‘shocked by misinformation
    https://www.foxnews.com/politics/immigration-border-facility-aoc-hispanic

    Democrats lied???

    What's so shocking about that???

  25. [25] 
    Michale wrote:

    CRS,

    So true.. :D A long time ago, my wife and I got into a debate on the subject of gas price regulation with regards to proximity...

    Back when (WAY back when) things were actually friendly here in Weigantian, I put the question to the group..

    http://www.chrisweigant.com/2012/12/31/spoiler-alert-l-s-s-u-language-gurus-double-down-on-banished-words/#comment-31763

    A very good friend David (akadjian) asked me, "Do you want to be right or do you want to be happy" I thought that was so good of a testament to married life I incorporated it into my speech during my son's wedding.. :D

    Ahhhh, those were the days....

  26. [26] 
    Michale wrote:
  27. [27] 
    Michale wrote:

    "Middle Class tax hikes... Open Borders... Slavery Reparations... Free HealthCare & College For Illegals... College Debt Cancellation... What have Democrats become??"

    "THE COMMITTEE TO RE-ELECT PRESIDENT TRUMP..."

  28. [28] 
    Michale wrote:

    Over the course of the two-night-abysmal-car-wreck on NBC networks this week they pandered in ways most Americans laughed at.

    Whether it was Julian Castro promising abortions for biological men who think they are women, Cory Booker and Beto O’Rourke racing to speak the worst Spanish, Bill DeBlasio promising to destroy the rest of the country the same way he has New York City... Whether it was Joe Biden being incapable of forming a coherent answer to nearly any question, Bernie Sanders blaming “economic hardship” (which is practically non-existent) on evil business owners, Pete Buttigieg admitting repeatedly he can’t run a tiny town (much less a large one, or a state, or a union of fifty...) Or even Kamala Harris landing her obviously rehearsed line about food fights while picking one with Joe Biden over his supposed racism of forty years ago...

    The nights were torturous as they were long.

    Yet there was a single moment each night that helped to bring clarity for the American people.

    On night one it was when the only top tier candidate on stage—Elizabeth Warren—raised her hand insisting she was good with doing away with the private health insurance for all Americans.

    On night two it was when the rest of the top tier candidates raised their hands insisting their administrations would guarantee health insurance for non-citizens.
    https://townhall.com/columnists/kevinmccullough/2019/06/30/democrats-new-strategy-campaign-for-nonamerica-n2549230

    Like I said.. It's almost as if Democrats WANT to lose the election..

  29. [29] 
    Elizabeth Miller wrote:

    Michale [27],

    Heh.

  30. [30] 
    Michale wrote:

    Liked that one, eh?? :D

    Can't take credit for it..

    https://media.townhall.com/Townhall/Car/b/sk070119dBP20190628104508.jpg

  31. [31] 
    Michale wrote:

    These Democrats seem to be obsessed with the idea that non-America is where they will win American hearts.

    And just to prove their point many of them campaigned the next day at a facility where illegals are being housed until most of their fake asylum claims are dismissed and they are returned to Mexico border towns.

    Not to be outdone, Beto O’Rourke actually campaigned in Mexico on Saturday.

    They want America to see “how much they care.”

    Ironically Americans do see.

    They see the American president obsessed with the plight of Americans. They see him holding Iran in check. They see him attempting to get North Korea to rid itself of nuclear weapons. They see him fighting to bring back and keep jobs in the U.S. And they see him recruiting Mexico to take more responsibility for the chaos at the border.

    America wants to help those who need help.

    America has an orderly process to do that.

    Democrats are siding with non-America.

    Which is why America will side against them.

  32. [32] 
    Michale wrote:

    Yes, the two women may have won the debates.. But the BIGGEST winner of the Democrat Party debates, BY FAR.....

    Is President Trump...

  33. [33] 
    Balthasar wrote:

    Michale [32] - I'd say that you've run out of material, Mike.

    No news about Trump hijacking the 4th of July celebrations, and filling it with Republicans.

    Then watch as Trump skiddaddles out of DC, back to one of his golf courses...

  34. [34] 
    Michale wrote:

    Rut Roh...

    Putin abruptly cancelled an event in Moscow and urgently called a meeting of his Defence Chiefs...

    At the same time, AIR FORCE TWO was heading to New Hampshire so VP Pence could attend a meeting... AF2 was ordered to return back to DC "post haste"....

    These two events occurred within mins of each other...

  35. [35] 
    Michale wrote:

    Then watch as Trump skiddaddles out of DC, back to one of his golf courses...

    You mean, like when Obama cut short a memorial service to go play golf???

  36. [36] 
    Michale wrote:

    I'd say that you've run out of material, Mike.

    Of course you would SAY that..

    But, as usual, you are wrong.. :D

    As long as Democrats are super-intent on turning the US into Venezuela, I will ALWAYS have plenty of material..

    "When are you people going to learn.. We are *NEVER* out gunned..."
    -Fred Ward, OFF LIMITS

  37. [37] 
    Michale wrote:

    Nike Nixes ‘Betsy Ross Flag’ Sneaker After Colin Kaepernick Intervenes

    Sneaker maker pulls Independence Day-themed shoe after NFL star raised concerns about symbolism
    https://www.wsj.com/articles/nike-nixes-betsy-ross-flag-sneaker-after-colin-kaepernick-intervenes-11562024126

    As long as this country has Trump/America hating nimrods....

    I will ALWAYS have plenty of material...

  38. [38] 
    Michale wrote:

    “She’s lost all credibility,”
    Officials push back on AOC's border station claims, say she is 'misinforming' the public

    https://www.foxnews.com/politics/officials-push-back-on-aocs-claims-say-she-is-intentionally-misinforming-the-public

    Occasional Cortex strikes again...

    I DO have to differ with the BP officials who claim that Occasional Cortex has lost all credibility..

    She's never had any credibility to begin with..

    She's a bartender fer christ's sake!! THAT is her qualification.. :eyeroll:

  39. [39] 
    Balthasar wrote:

    Gee, Mike, you missed the entire delgation. It was:

    Rep. Joaquin Castro of Texas, Rep. Veronica Escobar of Texas, Rep. Madeleine Dean of Pennsylvania, Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez of New York, and:

    Rep. Judy Chu (D-CA-27)
    Rep. Pete Aguilar (D-CA-31)
    Rep. Norma Torres (D-CA-35)
    Rep. Sylvia Garcia (D-TX-29)
    Rep. Lori Trahan (D-MA-3)
    Rep. Joe Kennedy III (D-MA-4)
    Rep. Marc Veasey (D-TX-33)
    Rep. Ayanna Pressley (D-MA-7)
    Rep. Rashida Tlaib (D-MI-13)
    Rep. Greg Stanton (D-AZ-9)

    But all you and the disgusting Facebook trolls cared about was AOC. Talk about losing credibility!

    There were some pretty disgusting things going on inside that facility, too. And that's, one poster reminds us, after it was 'cleaned' for the delegation's visit.

    Gonna keep hitting them over the head for this mess!

  40. [40] 
    Michale wrote:

    There were some pretty disgusting things going on inside that facility, too. And that's, one poster reminds us, after it was 'cleaned' for the delegation's visit.

    Yea, that's the claim.. Of course, no FACTS to support the claim...

    As for your list.. All Democrats.. So ZERO credibility...

    They all want to shut down the Border Patrol and make this country Open Borders..

    Like I said.. ZERO credibility...

  41. [41] 
    Michale wrote:

    When are you ever going to have any FACTS to support your America hatred, eh???

  42. [42] 
    Balthasar wrote:

    ZERO credibility...

    Except of course, for personal testimonials, eye witness reports, videotape...

    ZERO credibility seems to be the administration's answer to everything lately, from the border to Trump's taxes, to Jared's security clearance.

    It increasingly describes the administration itself.

    Trump's bet is that he can outrun (or outlive) the Courts, and get Pence to pardon him for the rest. It's a criminal exercise...

  43. [43] 
    Balthasar wrote:

    And what about Trump believing that when Putin said that the ideals of Western Liberal Democracies were headed for the trash heap of history, that he was talking about San Francisco.

    This is what happens when the President is just plain ignorant.

  44. [44] 
    Michale wrote:

    Except of course, for personal testimonials, eye witness reports, videotape...

    There is video tape of illegal immigrant criminals drinking out of toilets???

    Liar...

    As for the testimony and eye witnesses.. Prove it..

    All you have is a bunch of illegal immigrant criminals and Democrat America hating scumbags making unsubstantiated claims..

    You do not have a SINGLE FACT to support your claims..

    NOT..... ONE...... SINGLE...... FACT......

    Trump's bet is that he can outrun (or outlive) the Courts,

    Yea.. Howz that unredacted Mueller report coming along??

    Where is your McGhan testimony??

    Where is your Barr testimony???

    Face reality... You LOST... AGAIN and AGAIN and AGAIN... You lost..

  45. [45] 
    Balthasar wrote:

    You LOST... AGAIN and AGAIN and AGAIN...

    You poor sick puppy. D'ya call that losing? Why, we're just gettin' you used to listing the offenses.

    D'ya honestly think that wishing away your problems actually solves them? That's Trump-think: "The Power of Positive Thinking". Works great for trust-fund billionaires, not well for the rest of us.

    For our part, we're just gonna keep plugging away, working the courts. Eventually, we're gonna nail the bastard.

  46. [46] 
    Balthasar wrote:

    Say what you want about the Democratic delegation in El Paso, their words and videos now have an audience of voters...

  47. [47] 
    Michale wrote:

    You poor sick puppy. D'ya call that losing? Why, we're just gettin' you used to listing the offenses.

    Yea.. You had your shot with the Mueller Witch Hunt..

    You missed...

    Say what you want about the Democratic delegation in El Paso, their words and videos now have an audience of voters...

    And NO ONE believes them... At least no patriotic American believes them...

    Trump in a landslide in Nov of 2020...

    Better prepare yer excuses.. :D

    Yer gonna need 'em...

  48. [48] 
    Paula wrote:

    [3] Listen: Kevin Drum, among others, has written pieces about the Crime Bill and the fact that there was a lot of violent crime at that time and, yes, the Black Community was supportive. Broadly, I think the biggest problem with it became the mandatory minimum sentences and crack disparities, some of which should have been ameliorated a long time ago.

    I have a much bigger problem with Biden on the Bankruptcy Bill.

  49. [49] 
    Paula wrote:

    CW: Yep - the ladies won the nights and YAY for both! I like EW best, but KH is my second - it's gonna be interesting but, unfortunately probably painful - if/when they have to try to take out each other.

    But that's for the future. Right now I very much look forward to the next debate with hopefully a much smaller field.

  50. [50] 
    Michale wrote:

    Funny how Paula ONLY supports the female candidates.. :D

    It's like a white supremacist ONLY supporting white candidates... Or Samuel L. Jackson ONLY supporting Obama because Obama is black...

    Bigotry is alive and well in the Democrat Party...

  51. [51] 
    Chris Weigant wrote:

    ListenWhenYouHear [3] -

    It’s one thing to have supported legislation that was clearly known to be bad for society if it passed, but I have a problem blaming folks for supporting what was at the time, viewed as “good legislation” and only decades later do we know better. I cannot fault someone for trying to do good decades ago, even if it had some unforeseen negative results.

    That is an excellent and rational point. However, in the frenzy that is politics today, I think it may be too subtle for many.

    You're right about the crime bill, and Hillary got a pass for her "superpredator" comments at the time, in 2016. So Biden could likewise get a pass this time.

    But I think the larger point is whether Biden has evolved or not.

    Michale [4] -

    It is confusing, and I've tried to be as clear as possible, but it's still a language hurdle.

    There will be a "first round" of two debates, and then a "second round" of two debates, and then possibly just a single "third debate."

    So you could say there have already been two debates, but really there has only been the "first debate" -- although it probably should be plural (the "first debates").

    Like I said, confusing...

    Michale [5] -

    I'm surprised you didn't quote the next paragraph in that article (from memory, the guy being quoted said something like "that shit ain't happening now.").

    But I thought the Politico article was a little overblown -- it's FAR too early to say whether Biden supporters won't support Harris in the end.

    Michale [various] -

    "Too far left" is a subjective call. I read an excellent point (but forgot where) recently, where one Democrat pointed out that the media "tries to frame an issue as being 'out of left field' when it is really a solid drive to center field."

    What is "too far left"? An issue that 60-70 percent of the American people support? Is that "too far left"? Plenty of pundits paint things this way, but that doesn't make it reality.

    For you, the question to ponder would be (to make it more relevant to your own politics), "what is too far right?" When the media screams about some GOP politician being "too far right" do you agree with them? Or think the call is overblown? That's how some folks on the left see things these days.

    Think about it: if Bernie Sanders' agenda really is "too far left" then why have so many Democratic voters supported it?

    C. R. Stucki [25] -

    My experience has been that women win ALL debates!

    Hah! Best comment yet!

    :-)

    Michale [31] -

    Trump is "holding Iran in check"?!?

    Had to burst out laughing when I read that. I mean, do you really believe that?

    ...and a general comment:
    Lefties just love the way that AOC lives in every right-wing mind, rent-free. Her value is in how much she bugs the righties, plain and simple. Just like Trump and lefties, to flip it around...

    Balthasar [43] -

    Yeah, that was pretty funny.

    And don't forget how he also talked about busing as "one means of transportation" for schoolkids. Talk about clueless!

    Paula [48] -

    Excellent points. Especially about the 500-1 crack sentencing disparity.

    Paula [49] -

    (see Michale comment response, above). The second round of debates will be just as crowded as the first. It won't be until the third (round? debate?) happens that the field will shrink dramatically.

    OK, that's it for now. Peace out.

    -CW

  52. [52] 
    Kick wrote:

    Balthasar
    45

    For our part, we're just gonna keep plugging away, working the courts. Eventually, we're gonna nail the bastard.

    Yes, sir. Indeed, the bastard is already cornered.

    If a report truly totally exonerates you, why would you and your goons still be busy trying to drag its authors through the mud? Obviously, you wouldn't.

    It doesn't take a rocket scientist to connect the dots on that. :)

  53. [53] 
    Chris Weigant wrote:

    PROGRAM NOTE:

    Just posted today's (re-run) column. But everyone should check out the program note at the beginning of it, because it is an important one for this site's future over the course of the next two weeks.

    :-)

    -CW

  54. [54] 
    Michale wrote:

    There will be a "first round" of two debates, and then a "second round" of two debates, and then possibly just a single "third debate."

    So you could say there have already been two debates, but really there has only been the "first debate" -- although it probably should be plural (the "first debates").

    Ahhh That makes it a little bit clearer.. Thanx for that :D

    "Too far left" is a subjective call. I read an excellent point (but forgot where) recently, where one Democrat pointed out that the media "tries to frame an issue as being 'out of left field' when it is really a solid drive to center field."

    What is "too far left"? An issue that 60-70 percent of the American people support? Is that "too far left"? Plenty of pundits paint things this way, but that doesn't make it reality.

    For you, the question to ponder would be (to make it more relevant to your own politics), "what is too far right?" When the media screams about some GOP politician being "too far right" do you agree with them? Or think the call is overblown? That's how some folks on the left see things these days.

    Think about it: if Bernie Sanders' agenda really is "too far left" then why have so many Democratic voters supported it?

    That's kinda my point.. And it's a point that you yourself have made, I do believe..

    Ideas that were whacked out WAY OUT in Left Field have now become "Center Field" Democrat Party..

    While I claim that the entire Democrat Party has moved way far Left, you claim that ideas that was way far Left are now becoming mainstream Democrat Party platforms.

    In essence, we're both saying the same thing, just in a different way..

    I say Mohammed is going to the Leftist Mountain.. You say the Leftist Mountain is going to Mohammed..

    Same thing really.. :D

    Lefties just love the way that AOC lives in every right-wing mind, rent-free. Her value is in how much she bugs the righties, plain and simple. Just like Trump and lefties, to flip it around...

    Yes, I would agree with that.. President Trump lives rent free in the minds of Democrats for the last 5 years.. And AOC lives rent free in the minds of GOP'ers for the last year or so..

    Yep, I completely agree.. :D

    Common ground.. TWICE! :D

  55. [55] 
    Michale wrote:

    Balthasar,

    For our part, we're just gonna keep plugging away, working the courts. Eventually, we're gonna nail the bastard.

    Here's the funny thing..

    Ya'all have been SAYING that for over 2 years now..

    And ya'all have ALWAYS been wrong..

    The GOP'ers have said the exact same thing about Hillary Clinton..

    And THEY turned out to be JUST AS WRONG as ya'all are..

    So, congrats.. You have just admitted that you are no different than the GOP...

    Except the GOP finally forced Hillary into exile.. SO they got ya'all beat on that.. :D

  56. [56] 
    Kick wrote:

    Balthasar

    Come closer and listen carefully because here's the really funny thing.

    The board troll claimed over and over that Trump's campaign manager would be fully exonerated, yet Manafort is in prison and shall remain there for years to come. Not only that, the SCOTUS has laid to rest the question of separate sovereignty and therefore Manafort... and Trump for that matter... can be tried for their crimes in courts in both State as well as Federal jurisdictions, thus rendering Trump's pardon power virtually useless. Don't take my word for it, ask Paulie Manafort who was just indicted by the State of New York for virtually the same crimes for which he's already either been convicted or confessed to committing. Tough break from the SCOTUS. How does one convince a jury you're innocent of slam dunk criminal cases for which you've already been convicted unanimously by a jury or where you've confessed your guilt to every single one of them? I don't like Paulie's chances.

    Also, Trump's attorney/fixer was equally lauded by the board troll, and Mikey Cohen too sits in prison for following the orders of his employer, Donald Trump, who is... as we speak... right now an unindicted co-conspirator in a case in the SDNY, who but for the fact that he's POTUS would have already been indicted.

    Then there is the issue of those multitude of cases that are still being "robustly" investigated by the FBI and aren't going away anytime soon. See the Mueller Report, Appendix D for a list of those cases, but be warned that it's heavily redacted. ;)

    So I'd say Balthasar... without question... wins this argument. :)

    The GOP'ers have said the exact same thing about Hillary Clinton.. ~ Michale

    Mike has said the same thing about Hillary Clinton on several occasions, sometimes while praising the integrity of James Comey and himself at the same time:

    Having an extensive LEO and investigative background AND knowing the integrity and non-political nature of FBI Director Comey, I can assure you with complete confidence that the Director will recommend Hillary and/or senior staff be indicted for their crimes..

    http://www.chrisweigant.com/2016/03/18/ftp383/#comment-72197

    When you are finished laughing, ask yourself this: Who are you going to believe? The people who told you long ago that some of the Red team were going to prison... me, Neil, Russ, yourself [Balthy], others... or the right-wing poser whom I refer to as the "board troll"?

    And THEY turned out to be JUST AS WRONG as ya'all are.. ~ Michale

    I think Mike meant to say that unless you are deaf, dumb, and blind, he's obviously a GOP/Tea Party supporter and that he himself turned out to be wrong, obviously based on his "extensive LEO background." *spew alert*

    Isn't it interesting how so many of the GOP/Tea Party and their ilk are taking steps to distance themselves of late? But I digress.

    Michale: So, congrats.. You have just admitted that you are no different than the GOP...

    I think it's more like Mike has been proving on a regular basis for years now that he is nothing more than a GOP sheeple just bleating out the right-wing talking points of the day... whatever BS their cult leader, con artist, master is spewing.

    Except the GOP finally forced Hillary into exile.. SO they got ya'all beat on that.. :D ~ Michale

    I think Mike meant to say that Trump's associates are being forced into prison like we always said they would be... while we watch the slow wheels of justice turn... but turn they will, turn they do, and turn they are. :)

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