ChrisWeigant.com

The Iron 'Stache Wins His Primary

[ Posted Wednesday, August 15th, 2018 – 16:45 PDT ]

Randy "Iron 'Stache" Bryce won his primary last night in Wisconsin, meaning he is now the Democratic nominee who will attempt to flip Paul Ryan's House district in November. It'll be a tough race, but an interesting one to watch no matter the outcome. Partly this is due to Bryce's charisma and personality, and partly it is because of the issues he chose to run on. Because he just may become the prime example of how blue-collar working-class Democrats can win elections in today's political climate.

Bryce is a former iron worker (with a pronounced mustache, hence the nickname) and Union member. This used to be a pretty perfect résumé for a Democratic candidate, a few decades back. But the old predictors of political leanings have been shaken up, first by Ronald Reagan (the so-called "Reagan Democrats," most of whom never really returned to the Democratic Party afterwards) and then by Donald Trump's bizarre "billionaire populism." Working-class voters haven't been a solid Democratic voting bloc for a long time, in other words, but Bryce hopes to change that, at least in his district.

Only a few weeks ago, I asked a few professional election-watchers (at Netroots Nation) what they thought Bryce's chances were. I was surprised to hear that none of them even thought he'd make it through the primary. It seems his Democratic opponent had uncovered some dirt on Bryce, and was using it effectively in ads and on the campaign trail. Bryce was seen as flawed, and therefore the voters weren't going to give him a chance. This made his victory last night surprising, to some.

Bryce's transgressions, however, were pretty mundane (at least, these days). He had been arrested nine times (although two of those were recent, for protesting against Republicans). Almost 30 years ago, he had been arrested for marijuana possession. Twenty years ago, he was popped for drunk driving. He hadn't paid all his child support, although he did so when he decided to run for office. Stacked up against what politicians from Trump on down get away with on a regular basis these days, none of it seems particularly disqualifying. Last night, Wisconsin voters proved this, even though his Democratic opponent tried to make as much political hay over Bryce's past as possible. This may actually serve to inoculate him somewhat from having the same charges hurled against him in the general election.

Bryce, of course, has a much better chance now of flipping the district to blue in November, after Paul Ryan announced his retirement. Ryan was either sick of trying to herd the cats of the Republican House caucus, or he could see the blue wave coming, or he just got tired of trying to be a different kind of Republican in the Trump era. Take your pick, but for whatever reason, Ryan threw in the towel early -- and it's always easier to pick up an open seat than to dislodge an incumbent.

The district he's running in isn't as red as you might think. They did reliably elect Ryan to the House for two decades, but during that same time period they voted for (in order): Al Gore (2000), George W. Bush (2004), Barack Obama (2008), Mitt Romney (2012), and then Donald Trump (2016). That's actually pretty purple, although they did go for Trump over Hillary Clinton by 11 points. Still, you can see how the district swings back and forth, at least in presidential races. So it's not completely out of reach for a Democrat to win a House seat there.

Seeing the Iron 'Stache flip the district would be heartening for other Democrats, although not as much so as if he had dethroned Paul Ryan from his speakership. I have no idea what Bryce's chances are right now, but I will be watching the race closely from now on. Bryce is a very dynamic speaker (I heard him speak at last year's Netroots Nation), and an excellent storyteller. He was inspired to run on the issue of healthcare, after caring for a mother with multiple sclerosis and personally surviving cancer. He spent time without health insurance, and has vowed to fight Republican attacks on Obamacare and to move towards single-payer health insurance for all. These used to be seen as far-left issues, but not so much anymore. Now they are pretty mainstream Democratic issues, in fact, in part because of the combined efforts of candidates like Bryce all across the country to drag the Democratic Party back to its roots.

There is no magic all-encompassing way for Democrats to win back blue-collar voters, of course. The inside-the-Beltway crowd fervently believes that there is, but what it is going to take is picking candidates that match their district's makeup, plain and simple. In other words: want to get blue-collar votes? Then maybe running a blue-collar worker as a candidate might help. Also, what works in Kenosha and Racine might not work in Albuquerque or Augusta -- different House districts care about different issues, so matching the candidate to the district is the real key. Picking charismatic candidates who excel at public speaking couldn't hurt, either.

If Bryce wins, much political hay will be made over his victory, which will be endlessly analyzed under the political microscopes. Democratic presidential candidates will doubtlessly want to know how Bryce managed to get working-class voters enthused enough to vote for him, in the hopes of duplicating this effort nationwide. From seeing him speak a year ago, however, I don't believe there is any secret about how Bryce is running his campaign. He was inspired to run on a few issues near and dear to his own heart, and he is genuine and authentic about his beliefs. He is for a $15-an-hour minimum wage because he's been a Union worker and wants all working families to be able to have a decent house and make a decent life for themselves. The other issues he has been championing are just as personal. That's the sort of thing that can't be cut-and-pasted on to other candidates, to put it another way. It has to come from within, so a candidate either has it or doesn't -- it can't really be taught.

Of course, I personally would love to see Bryce win in November. I think the Democratic Party would be a lot stronger with more politicians like him within their ranks. And, sure, I'd love to see Paul Ryan's district flip just to watch Republican heads explode on election night. Beyond cheap thrills, though, I see Bryce as someone destined for political stardom if he does manage to flip the district. Much attention is now being paid to Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, but my guess is that Bryce will also become a go-to guest for the political shows on television, on the strength of his speaking ability alone. It would be good to hear what he has to say on the issues of the day, no matter what they are, since he brings a perspective that is now sadly lacking within the Democratic Party. For that reason alone, I'll be rooting for the Iron 'Stache to win in November.

 

[Editorial Note: While news organizations now seem to have multiple ways to parse Randy Bryce's nickname, including "IronStache" and "Ironstache," we are pedantically clinging to our own interpretation, which we've been using all along. When part of a proper word has been condensed, we feel a leading apostrophe is appropriate (e.g.: "We waited 'til the cows came home at eight o'clock"), hence Mr. Bryce will remain the "Iron 'Stache" in these pages.]

-- Chris Weigant

 

Follow Chris on Twitter: @ChrisWeigant

 

93 Comments on “The Iron 'Stache Wins His Primary”

  1. [1] 
    Elizabeth Miller wrote:

    Stacked up against what politicians from Trump on down get away with on a regular basis these days, none of it seems particularly disqualifying. Last night, Wisconsin voters proved this …

    And, this is precisely what a Trump presidency has done for America - lowered the bar to what are acceptable credentials for running for public office.

    How low can the bar go? After four years or eight years?

    This is what so discourages those of us who still cling to the belief in the promise of America.

  2. [2] 
    Elizabeth Miller wrote:

    Btw, is Senator Biden making any headway through his America Promise Tour?

  3. [3] 
    Kick wrote:

    CW: The district he's running in isn't as red as you might think. They did reliably elect Ryan to the House for two decades, but during that same time period they voted for (in order): Al Gore (2000), George W. Bush (2004), Barack Obama (2008), Mitt Romney (2012), and then Donald Trump (2016). That's actually pretty purple, although they did go for Trump over Hillary Clinton by 11 points.

    Hmmmmm… 11 points!? The numbers sound very similar to OH-12, with the exception of Bryce's district being way less gerrymandered, and that should make for a very interesting race.

    How motivated the Democratic versus the Republican voters in WI-1 should be a large factor, as per usual, making curious what yesterday's voting figures show.

    U.S. House District 1
    100% reporting (352 of 352 precincts)

    61,087 Democratic Voters
    59,870 Republican Voters

    Well, looky there. While past performance is certainly no guarantee of future results, based on these figures, this district certainly does not appear to be an automatic victory for the GOP. :)

  4. [4] 
    Kick wrote:

    Elizabeth Miller
    1

    And, this is precisely what a Trump presidency has done for America - lowered the bar to what are acceptable credentials for running for public office.

    Please keep in mind that people have been saying pretty much the same thing since the sitting Vice President of the United States fatally wounded the former Secretary of the Treasury on 07/11/1804.

    How low can the bar go?

    Murder, treason, adultery/children out of wedlock, etc.

    This is what so discourages those of us who still cling to the belief in the promise of America.

    Nah. America has a long history of similar such things; although, I believe Treasonous Trump [props to Neil] will definitely go down in history right at the top of the list with the worst of them. There's a reason I have always called him Benedict Donald. :)

  5. [5] 
    Elizabeth Miller wrote:

    Kick,

    As indicated in italics at the top of [1] - a key part of Chris's piece that prompted comment - the increasingly lower bar I was referring to was directed at political analysts of our time and their inclination in the Trump era to accept lower standards for politicians.

    That is a dangerous path to follow, at any time.

  6. [6] 
    Balthasar wrote:

    Hooray for the 'Stache! We need more macho Dems.

  7. [7] 
    Michale wrote:

    Of course, I personally would love to see Bryce win in November. I think the Democratic Party would be a lot stronger with more politicians like him within their ranks. And, sure, I'd love to see Paul Ryan's district flip just to watch Republican heads explode on election night. Beyond cheap thrills, though, I see Bryce as someone destined for political stardom if he does manage to flip the district. Much attention is now being paid to Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, but my guess is that Bryce will also become a go-to guest for the political shows on television, on the strength of his speaking ability alone. It would be good to hear what he has to say on the issues of the day, no matter what they are, since he brings a perspective that is now sadly lacking within the Democratic Party. For that reason alone, I'll be rooting for the Iron 'Stache to win in November.

    So, basically, Democrats are turning to politicians of President Trump's caliber.. Or at least, as DEMOCRATS see President Trump's caliber..

    If ya can't beat 'em, join 'em eh? :D

    I saw a lot of photons giving to IS's transgressions, but not a lot going to his qualifications..

    Welcome to the Dark Side.. :D

  8. [8] 
    Michale wrote:

    Hooray for the 'Stache! We need more macho Dems.

    Yea?? You mean like the Vermont GOV candidate?? :D

  9. [9] 
    Kick wrote:

    EM
    5

    As indicated in italics at the top of [1] - a key part of Chris's piece that prompted comment - the increasingly lower bar I was referring to was directed at political analysts of our time and their inclination in the Trump era to accept lower standards for politicians.

    Yes, ma'am, and I understand exactly what Chris meant and what prompted your comment, and my point was that the voters of America indeed have a long history of accepting lower standards that goes way back since inception.

    "Political analysts of our time" or any other time in United States history do not define what are acceptable credentials for running for public office, the voters do, and there are opportunists, scalawags, carpetbaggers, and rogues like Trump littered across the pages of our history who've served in office at the local/precinct, district, and state levels and all the way up to the pinnacle of the seat of power in America. They come and go with the ebb and flow and always have. So for those like yourself "who still cling to the belief in the promise of America," history provides a more reasonable assurance:

    He isn't the first and won't be the last, but
    Trump too shall pass.
    ~ Kick

  10. [10] 
    Michale wrote:

    "We’re not going to make America great again. It was never that great."
    -Democrat Presidential Candidate Contender Andrew Cuomo

    Typical America-Hating Democrat...

    And you think American voters will vote for this guy?? Only those who ALSO hate America...

  11. [11] 
    Michale wrote:

    Interesting to note..

    Ya'all supported Senator Graham to the hilt when he made comments opposing President Trump...

    Graham calls for special counsel to investigate FBI's handling of Clinton emails, FISA warrant

    Claiming that FBI investigations into Hillary Clinton's emails and the Carter Page FISA warrant were "corrupt to the core," U.S. Sen. Lindsey Graham on Wednesday called for the appointment of a special prosecutor to handle both probes.

    Graham, a South Carolina Republican, said FBI investigators were “in the tank” for Clinton and the FISA warrant process was abused -- possibly in a criminal fashion.

    “What do you think Democrats would be saying if a Republican — if the RNC [Republican National Committee] -- hired a former British agent to go to Russia to get dirt on [Hillary] Clinton?” Graham asked Fox News' Laura Ingraham, host of “The Ingraham Angle.”
    http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2018/08/16/graham-calls-for-special-counsel-to-investigate-fbis-handling-clinton-emails-fisa-warrant.html

    So, NOW... I am suuuurrreeeee ya'all will support Senator Graham to the hilt in his latest endeavor, right??

    What???? NO!???

    Hmmmmmmmmm Shocking.. :^/

  12. [12] 
    Michale wrote:

    And, of course, there are numerous successes in the Foreign Policy department that ya'all Democrats and propagandists in the MSM ignore..

    Opinion: Mainstream media ignores Trump’s success on world stage
    https://www.detroitnews.com/story/opinion/2018/08/14/mainstream-media-ignore-trumps-success-world-stage/980330002/

    In 2024, the US is going to be in a really REALLY good place, thanx to the leadership of President Trump..

    Democrats?? They'll still be whining and crying hysterically about RUSSIA!!! and COLLUSION!!! and not stand for a single thing.. Democrat's message is and always will be AMERICA WAS NEVER THAT GREAT

  13. [13] 
    Michale wrote:

    illegal immigration is wrong — plain and simple. When we use phrases like “undocumented workers,” we convey a message to the American people that their Government is not serious about combating illegal immigration, which the American people overwhelmingly oppose.
    -President Donald Trump

    Call a spade a spade, people.. They aren't "undocumented workers".. They are ILLEGALS.. CRIMINALS...

  14. [14] 
    John M wrote:

    [8] Michale

    "Hooray for the 'Stache! We need more macho Dems.

    Yea?? You mean like the Vermont GOV candidate?? :D"

    That was not only an uncalled for very cheap shot, but full of barely disguised prejudice as well.

    [10] Michale

    "Democrat Presidential Candidate Contender Andrew Cuomo

    Typical America-Hating Democrat...

    And you think American voters will vote for this guy?? Only those who ALSO hate America..."

    As opposed to who, comrade Trump? Who actually sells America out to the Russians...

    [12] Michale

    "And, of course, there are numerous successes in the Foreign Policy department that ya'all Democrats and propagandists in the MSM ignore..

    Opinion: Mainstream media ignores Trump’s success on world stage"

    Bullshit. The ONLY major success the guy in the article can point to, are remains returned by North Korea, something that A) had happened BEFORE under OTHER presidents and B) Has more to do with the diplomatic efforts of South Korea's president and NOT Trump.

    He also points to things like more American sanctions on Iran, while failing to mention at the same time that they are far MORE MEANINGLESS now that we have lost the support of not ONLY Russia and China on sanctions, but also ALL of our European allies as well. Yeah, some success, NOT!

  15. [15] 
    John M wrote:

    But I really do understand your slavery to your own brand of ideology Michale, I really do. It may not be partisan, either Democratic or Republican, but it is still an ideology that blinds you anyway.

  16. [16] 
    Michale wrote:

    That was not only an uncalled for very cheap shot, but full of barely disguised prejudice as well.

    Hay.. It was Balthy who said that Democrats need "macho" candidates..

    I simply pointed out how full of shit he was...

    "Dood looks like a lady"
    -Dean Winchester, SUPERNATURAL

    As opposed to who, comrade Trump? Who actually sells America out to the Russians...

    Any FACTS that prove this??

    Of course you don't..

    Yet I have FACTS that *PROVE* that President Trump is sticking it to Putin and the Russians at every opportunity...

    That's EXACTLY your problem, JM.. You have NO FACTS to prove ANY of your hysterical claims..

    He also points to things like more American sanctions on Iran, while failing to mention at the same time that they are far MORE MEANINGLESS now that we have lost the support of not ONLY Russia and China on sanctions,

    NOW LOOK who is whining and crying for Russia support..

    You simply will throw ANYTHING against the wall, in hopes that it will stick.... Even if it contradicts all the OTHER bullshit you throw against the wall...

    It may not be partisan, either Democratic or Republican, but it is still an ideology that blinds you anyway.

    The ONLY ideology I have is AMERICA...

    I understand ya'all don't get that, since ya'all are America Hating Democrats...

    "America was NEVER really that great"
    -Democrat Party

  17. [17] 
    Michale wrote:

    Hay.. It was Balthy who said that Democrats need "macho" candidates..

    I simply pointed out how full of shit he was...

    "Dood looks like a lady"
    -Dean Winchester, SUPERNATURAL

    Apologies.....

    I wasn't implying that Balthy looks like a lady..

    I mean, he might.. I just wasn't saying that...

  18. [18] 
    Don Harris wrote:

    I seem to remember that back when CW first mentioned Randy Bryce that Altohone said that Bryce was refusing to debate his Democratic primary challenger and that Bryce was the Party establishment backed candidate.

    This, along with the national perception/implications of this seat, leads me to suspect that he may be running his campaign with the support of Big Money contributions.

    If he is using Big Money to run his campaign while running as a candidate with working class roots, then perhaps instead of calling him the Iron 'Stache he should be called the Ironic 'Stache.

  19. [19] 
    Michale wrote:

    If he is using Big Money to run his campaign while running as a candidate with working class roots, then perhaps instead of calling him the Iron 'Stache he should be called the Ironic 'Stache.

    Ooooo SNAP!! :D

  20. [20] 
    Michale wrote:

    I seem to remember that back when CW first mentioned Randy Bryce that Altohone said that Bryce was refusing to debate his Democratic primary challenger and that Bryce was the Party establishment backed candidate.

    ALTOHONE

    Now THERE is a blast from the past.. :D

  21. [21] 
    Don Harris wrote:

    CW-
    You are right that there is no magic to Bryce's appeal. If he is good at appearing to be genuine (as Trump is to his supporters) or actually is genuine (as Bernie was much closer to than many other politicians), it is that quality that provides the appeal.

    And while different districts have some different issues that are important to the voters in those districts there are issues that seem to have appeal all over the country.

    For example, 80% of citizens want the Big Money out of politics. It is probably safe to assume that this 80% of citizens nationwide is not concentrated in one or two districts.

    Perhaps it is time to inform citizens aboot One Demand which "...brings a perspective that is now sadly lacking in the Democratic Party."

    Isn't that alone reason enough to address this idea and inform citizens aboot this opportunity?

  22. [22] 
    Michale wrote:

    You are right that there is no magic to Bryce's appeal. If he is good at appearing to be genuine (as Trump is to his supporters

    Or as Ocasio-Cortez is to her supporters..

  23. [23] 
    Michale wrote:

    Sad to note...

    Aretha Franklin has just died....

  24. [24] 
    Balthasar wrote:

    ALTOHONE Now THERE is a blast from the past

    Yeah, I remember that one. Russian Troll.

  25. [25] 
    Balthasar wrote:

    Aretha Franklin has just died...

    S-A-D-N-E-S-S

  26. [26] 
    Kick wrote:

    Don Harris
    18

    I seem to remember that back when CW first mentioned Randy Bryce that Altohone said that Bryce was refusing to debate his Democratic primary challenger and that Bryce was the Party establishment backed candidate.

    You remember incorrectly. He didn't say anything about Bryce being "the Party establishment backed candidate." He said that CW's favorite at Netroots [last year] dodging a debate with his primary opponent wasn't very cool and posted a link.

    Your interjection of your personal obsession onto altohone's post is all your own handiwork, and you might want to work on your memory and/or your reading comprehension skills, Don. ;)

    _______________

    p.s.: Bryce did eventually agree to debate his primary challenger, and the rest is history. I would wager that WI-1 general election will be one of the more interesting races come November.

  27. [27] 
    Michale wrote:

    Yeah, I remember that one. Russian Troll.

    Oh com'on!

    Is EVERYONE who doesn't toe your line a "russian troll"???

    Is it not even CONCEIVABLE to you that someone could simply think differently than you and NOT have an ulterior motive???

    Such hysterical paranoia does not do your cause any good.. You simply come off as a tin-foil hat Alex Jones loving moron....

    Which I *KNOW* you are not...

    Aretha Franklin has just died...

    S-A-D-N-E-S-S

    Point to Balthy...

  28. [28] 
    Kick wrote:

    Michale

    “What do you think Democrats would be saying if a Republican — if the RNC [Republican National Committee] -- hired a former British agent to go to Russia to get dirt on [Hillary] Clinton?” Graham asked Fox News' Laura Ingraham, host of “The Ingraham Angle.”

    It was Republicans/conservatives from the news website "The Washington Free Beacon" that admittedly first hired the political research firm, Fusion GPS, that commissioned a former British intelligence officer Christopher Steele who reported back to Fusion GPS what he had found during his research regarding Trump and produced what is commonly referred to as the "Steele Dossier."

    I would wager that the majority of Democrats would recognize that hiring a political research firm in order to investigate your political opponent(s) has been going on in America since time immemorial.

    If Senator Graham was so taken aback about that, did he perchance discuss how he felt about the Trump campaign meeting directly with Russians who promised them documents that "would incriminate Hillary and her dealings with Russia and would be very useful to your father," and described it as "obviously very high level and sensitive information but is part of Russia and its government's support for Mr. Trump." Did the good senator perchance discuss Mr. Trump calling on Russia directly to hack his opponents? Those things located at the back of the room are cameras that record these things. I'll bet Miss Lindsey did not mention that.

    I am further guessing that the topic wasn't discussed by Mr. Graham that Russians hacked the information of Republicans as well as Democrats, and one of the Republicans whose information was obtained by the Russians was indeed Senator Graham himself.

    Go figure. :)

  29. [29] 
    Balthasar wrote:

    Is EVERYONE who doesn't toe your line a "russian troll"?

    If he wasn't a russian troll, he was a conduit of IRS (Internet Research Service) lies, so, same difference.

  30. [30] 
    Michale wrote:

    It was Republicans/conservatives from the news website "The Washington Free Beacon" that admittedly first hired the political research firm, Fusion GPS, that commissioned a former British intelligence officer Christopher Steele who reported back to Fusion GPS what he had found during his research regarding Trump and produced what is commonly referred to as the "Steele Dossier."

    And they discarded it because it was a whole big pile of NOTHING..

    Then Hillary and Odumbo picked it up and ran with it...

  31. [31] 
    Michale wrote:

    If he wasn't a russian troll, he was a conduit of IRS (Internet Research Service) lies, so, same difference.

    So, you ARE saying you are a tin-foil Alex Jones type loving who simply CANNOT conceive that someone could have a a logical and rational difference of opinion with you and NOT have an ulterior motive...

    I have to be honest with you and say that I am disappointed...

    You are like one of those crazies who said that *ANY* opposition to Odumbo MUST be racism and CAN'T be a logical and rational difference of opinion...

    Thank the gods that those types are on their way out..

  32. [32] 
    Don Harris wrote:

    Kick-
    Okay, I should have put I remember Bryce was the establishment candidate and that Altohone said he was refusing to debate his opponent.

    It does appear that I am attributing the establishment candidate reference to altohone, which was not my intention. The establishment candidate is my perspective.

    It is good that Bryce did debate. And it is even possible that even being an establishment backed candidate he may have some good points and might even be an exception and do a good job if elected.

    Just because I may criticize him if he takes Big Money doesn't mean that I think he is all bad. But however good he may be, just like all candidates I think he could be even better by running a small contribution campaign.

  33. [33] 
    Balthasar wrote:

    And they discarded it because it was a whole big pile of NOTHING..

    Wrong. Steele hadn't even entered the picture yet, at that point. Look at a timeline.

    Steele was only one of GPS Fusion's sources. He was not working as an agent of any foreign government - he was freelancing at that point. Moreover, he notified the FBI about what he'd found.

    The Trump campaign, by comparison, knew that they were working with the Russian Government, and never reported any of their contacts to the FBI. On top of that, they all lied about it later.

  34. [34] 
    Balthasar wrote:

    So, you ARE saying you are a tin-foil Alex Jones type loving who simply CANNOT conceive that someone could have a a logical and rational difference of opinion with you and NOT have an ulterior motive.

    Nope. I'm saying that Altahone was pushing Russian propaganda. That was evident to me at the time, and I confronted him directly about it.

  35. [35] 
    Michale wrote:

    Nope. I'm saying that Altahone was pushing Russian propaganda. That was evident to me at the time, and I confronted him directly about it.

    No, Altohone was pushing what you THOUGHT was Russian propaganda...

  36. [36] 
    neilm wrote:

    The evidence against Manafort is rock solid - he didn't even mount a legal defense. His "hail mary" is to appeal to the Trump supporters on the jury and turn this into a mini referendum on Mueller's investigation.

    Will they put party ahead of justice?

  37. [37] 
    Michale wrote:

    Wrong. Steele hadn't even entered the picture yet, at that point.

    I never said Steele had entered the picture.. Victoria did..

    Look at a timeline.

    OK, let's look...

    FINALLY, A DEFINITIVE TIMELINE SHOWING WHEN CLINTON, DNC STARTED THE RUSSIAN DOSSIER
    http://dailycaller.com/2017/10/28/finally-a-definitive-timeline-showing-when-clinton-dnc-started-the-russian-dossier/

  38. [38] 
    neilm wrote:

    Oct. 2015: It was reported late Friday that the Washington Free Beacon, a conservative website funded by GOP mega-donor Paul Singer, hired Fusion GPS to investigate Trump.

    Yup - 6 months after anti-Trump Republicans hired Fusion GPS, Hillary's team got involved.

    Just what everybody has been saying all along. Thanks for the link confirming what we already knew. (You've been asked this several times, but do you actually read the links you post or are you just cut/paste extreme right wing talking points that are poorly researched and designed for the feelies?

  39. [39] 
    neilm wrote:

    (You've been asked this several times, but do you actually read the links you post or are you just cut/pasting extreme right wing talking points that are poorly researched and designed for the feelies?)

    One minute edit.

  40. [40] 
    Michale wrote:

    Oct. 2015: It was reported late Friday that the Washington Free Beacon, a conservative website funded by GOP mega-donor Paul Singer, hired Fusion GPS to investigate Trump.

    "You have to keep reading.."
    -Bartleby, DOGMA

    Free Beacon’s editor said Friday that the research was standard opposition research and that it was not tied to the dossier work that would follow several months later.

    March: Fusion GPS approached Perkins Coie, the law firm for the Clinton campaign and Democratic National Committee. Perkins Coie general counsel revealed this week that Fusion offered to continue Trump opposition research it had started while working for a Republican candidate.

    Of course I read my links..

    How do you think I know to trip you up on your bullshit.. :D

    But you prove once again why I don't like posting my facts..

    Because you spin and totally bullshit what the facts say...

    One minute edit.

    Maybe you should edit your brain?? :D

  41. [41] 
    Balthasar wrote:

    FINALLY, A DEFINITIVE TIMELINE SHOWING WHEN CLINTON, DNC STARTED THE RUSSIAN DOSSIER

    Great. A "definitive" timeline that's woefully out of date. Since that piece was written:

    - The head of GPS fusion testified before Congress

    - George Papadopoulis independently verified that rumours about the Russians were circulating at the time that Steele wrote his reports. George plead guilty to lying to prosecutors, has since been cooperating.

    - Carter Page plead guilty, has been providing testimony

    But simply pointing out that Clinton had some financial association with GPS doesn't negate the contents of the Dossier. While some portions of the Steele reports, which were very openly based on heresay, haven't been proven yet, the bulk of Steele's reporting has turned out to be disturbingly accurate...

  42. [42] 
    Michale wrote:

    The evidence against Manafort is rock solid - he didn't even mount a legal defense.

    He didn't need to.. Mueller's case was a joke.. Even the Judge saw that and conveyed such to the jury..

    But what else can you expect from Mueller.. He covered up a Child Porn scumbag and give the scumbag, who had tens of thousands of child porn videos and pictures, just six months house arrest..

    THAT is your champion.. A guy who let's child porn scumbags walk...

  43. [43] 
    Michale wrote:

    Wrong. Steele hadn't even entered the picture yet, at that point.

    I never said Steele had entered the picture.. Victoria did..

    It's OK, Balthy.. We both know you are wrong.. I won't force you to admit it.. :D

  44. [44] 
    Michale wrote:

    Great. A "definitive" timeline that's woefully out of date. Since that piece was written:

    Of course you would say that.. You wanted a timeline, but you want to the timeline that is bullshit and says what YOU want to hear..

    Once again... Yer proven wrong....

  45. [45] 
    Michale wrote:

    Jeezus, guys.. Ya'all have been getting ya'all's asses kicked on a DAILY basis by me..

    First, ya'all antifa love was exposed, then you try to blame Steele and the dossier on Trump and now ya got yer pee-pees whacked... AGAIN defending Child Porn Lover Mueller....

    Ya'all are REALLY off yer game...

  46. [46] 
    Balthasar wrote:

    Try this timeline. It's updated.

  47. [47] 
    Balthasar wrote:

    Ya'all are REALLY off yer game...

    Seems to me that you and your fellow BananaRepublicans are the ones running about playing whack-a-mole with revelations about Trump's collusion.

    Giuliani has gone all the way from "he didn't do it" to "it doesn't matter if he did do it".

    Even you're not arguing about the veracity of the dossier, only attempting a smear by association.

    The irony is, we don't need the Dossier, or Mueller, to conclude that Trump is dangerously ignorant to or oblivious of the Russians' con game.

    Putin has admitted publicly that he backed Trump in the 2016 election.

    Thing is, I don't want to see Trump impeached over this. I want to see Trump thrown unceremoniously out of office in November 2020 over this. I hope that Mueller's final report isn't even seen until November 2019.

  48. [48] 
    Balthasar wrote:

    AGAIN defending Child Porn Lover Mueller....

    I smell desperation in that slur.

  49. [49] 
    Michale wrote:

    Try this timeline. It's updated.

    TRANSLATION: It says what I want to hear...

    Sorry, ole chum... You got your timeline..

    And it proves everything I said is factual...

    Seems to me that you and your fellow BananaRepublicans are the ones running about playing whack-a-mole with revelations about Trump's collusion.

    There was no collusion.. You have NO FACTS to prove collusion..

    Even if you did, so what??? Nothing illegal about it..

    Even you're not arguing about the veracity of the dossier,

    Bullshit.. The dossier is shit and you know it.. The things that ARE factual are so mundane as to be laughable..

    That sums up your entire hysteria about the dossier..

    Laughable...

    But it came from the Russians and YA'ALL buy into it completely..

    Lenin's Useful Idiots on display.. :D

    Putin has admitted publicly that he backed Trump in the 2016 election.

    Again, total bullshit..

    Putin SAID he wanted Trump to win..

    And YOU BELIEVE him!?? Putin will SAY anything to sow strife in the US..

    And ya'all Dumbocrats let Putin lead you buy yer noses, eagerly following Putin where ever Putin leads you..

    Useful Idiots indeed..

    Thing is, I don't want to see Trump impeached over this. I want to see Trump thrown unceremoniously out of office in November 2020 over this. I hope that Mueller's final report isn't even seen until November 2019.

    Thing is, yer not gonna get ANY of that.. Least of all a credible report from Robert I-LOVE-CHILD-PORN Mueller

  50. [50] 
    ListenWhenYouHear wrote:

    https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2018/03/12/christopher-steele-the-man-behind-the-trump-dossier

    Great article that offers Steele’s side of the story.

    One thing Trumpkins keep ignoring, the intelligence agencies of I believe it was 11 other countries all reported to our CIA that they were hearing chatter about Trump from the Russians that they were monitoring well before the election.

    Mueller’s investigation will expose some of the worst corruption that this country has ever had to come to terms with. And unlike with Nixon, putting Trump’s crimes behind us won’t be what is best for healing our country’s division! Trump has destroyed so many norms, that we foolishly believed were enough to pressure someone intent on breaking all the rules from even trying, that we now have to make sure those “norms” become enforceable “rules”.

    Our country is headed for an incredibly harsh wake-up call, but it is one that we can not afford to ignore. “Heads will roll”, or heads may literally roll! Americans are sick of being subjected to a justice system that sends a person who steals $250 to prison for five years, but refuses to go after someone who steals $250 million for fear of disrupting the markets.

    Ignore the obvious truth about Trump at your own risk.

  51. [51] 
    neilm wrote:

    I smell desperation in that slur.

    I know, and the desperation in the "evidence" that Trump can't be a racist, when it is patently obvious to everybody that he is, is also hilarious.

    Michale is starting to go Qanon on us now.

    I think we need a parallel law to Godwin's law - the first person to call their political opponent a child molester loses. It reeks of desperation.

    I mean, it isn't like they have evidence to base it on, you know, something like this:

    Four women who competed in the 1997 Miss Teen USA beauty pageant said Donald Trump walked into the dressing room while contestants — some as young as 15 — were changing.

    “I remember putting on my dress really quick because I was like, ‘Oh my god, there’s a man in here,’” said Mariah Billado, the former Miss Vermont Teen USA.

    Trump, she recalled, said something like, “Don’t worry, ladies, I’ve seen it all before.”

  52. [52] 
    Michale wrote:

    Great article that offers Steele’s side of the story.

    Ahhhhh So, you don't MIND people colluding with Russians..

    As long as it serves your Hate America agenda...

    Gotcha.. :^/

  53. [53] 
    Michale wrote:

    I mean, it isn't like they have evidence to base it on, you know, something like this:

    So???

    You know.... Trump is boorish and crass.. BFD

    I mean, it's not as if he colluded with a child pornagrapher to give said scumbag a slap on the wrist, like your hero, Mueller did...

  54. [54] 
    ListenWhenYouHear wrote:

    There was no collusion.. You have NO FACTS to prove collusion..

    Even if you did, so what??? Nothing illegal about it..

    Since “collusion” isn’t actually one of criminal acts defined by our legal system that Trump’s campaign has admitted to committing, then you are correct in stating, “There was no collusion.” But if we are using “collusion” to describe meeting with foreign governments for the purpose of receiving stolen property in the hopes to interfere and alter the results of our democratic elections, then Trump has made it clear that you are WRONG!

    That sums up your entire hysteria about the dossier..

    Laughable...

    No, what’s laughable is that the only ones who gets hysterical over the subject of the dossier are you Treason Trolls! The dossier, which a large portion of has been confirmed and NONE of it has been proven false, is just part of the mountain of evidence that supported the original intel against President Wants-to-plow-his-own-daughter!

  55. [55] 
    Balthasar wrote:

    There was no collusion.. You have NO FACTS to prove collusion..Even if you did, so what??? Nothing illegal about it..

    Let me know when you tire from all the goalpost-moving you're doing.

    We have the FACT of the Trump Tower meeting, for one thing, and Don Jr. saying, "Sounds Great!" in an email. Illegal? That's for a jury to decide.

    The dossier is shit and you know it.. The things that ARE factual are so mundane as to be laughable..

    Espionage tends to be mundane. The Internet Research Service? Not mundane. And well documented.

    The computer in Trump Tower pinging Russia's Alpha Bank? Not mundane. Under investigation.

    Oligarchs buying up Trump properties? Not mundane. And also well documented. Under investigation.

    High level White House employees lying to FBI investigators? Not mundane. Several guilty pleas already. Testimony from Trump associates being assembled.

    The Trump Tower meeting? Not mundane. Getting better documented every day. The false narrative about it, dictated by Trump, also not mundane.

    Trump revealing top secret info to Russians in the Oval office? Not mundane. Unprecedented, as a matter of fact.

    Trump's secret meetings with Putin? Also unprecedented.

    Trump's denial of all of the above? Fairly mundane, standard, run-of-the-mill bullshit screen, falling somewhere between "attack the messenger" and "FU all".

  56. [56] 
    Balthasar wrote:

    You know.... Trump is boorish and crass.. BFD

    You know, that's the thing that has disappointed me the most in this whole thing - that your bananarepublicans have so little respect for this country that they would install a reprobate like that as its leader and representative to the world.

    Norman Lear said it first: Trump is the extended middle finger of the American Right to the world.

  57. [57] 
    Kick wrote:

    Michale
    30

    And they discarded it because it was a whole big pile of NOTHING..

    Incorrect. The Washington Free Beacon originally hired Fusion GPS who hired Steele to do research on Trump. Why on Earth would you read more into that statement and jump to the above conclusion? The "Steele Dossier" is a compilation of reports that were compiled at the conclusion of the research... so how do you figure The Washington Free Beacon discarded a compilation of reports that didn't exist at the outset when they were involved?

    Answer: Because you have no critical thinking skills and reasoning is not something you're accustomed to. :)

  58. [58] 
    Michale wrote:

    Since “collusion” isn’t actually one of criminal acts defined by our legal system that Trump’s campaign has admitted to committing, then you are correct in stating, “There was no collusion.”

    But COLLUSION is what ya'all have been hysterically yammering about for 2 years..

    So, for TWO YEARS I have been dead on ballz accurate and ya'all have been WRONG...

  59. [59] 
    Michale wrote:

    We have the FACT of the Trump Tower meeting, for one thing, and Don Jr. saying, "Sounds Great!" in an email. Illegal? That's for a jury to decide.

    So?? How is that criminal??

    Answer.. It's not...

  60. [60] 
    Michale wrote:

    Incorrect. The Washington Free Beacon originally hired Fusion GPS who hired Steele to do research on Trump.

    Not according to Balthasar...

    "Wrong. Steele hadn't even entered the picture yet, at that point. Look at a timeline."
    -Balthasar

    If you want to whine and cry about it, talk to Balthy..

    Get your facts straight, Victoria...

  61. [61] 
    Michale wrote:

    Funny how no one wants to talk about ya'all's hero, Mueller who also loves Child Pornographers......

    Funny....

  62. [62] 
    Kick wrote:

    Don Harris
    32

    Okay, I should have put I remember Bryce was the establishment candidate and that Altohone said he was refusing to debate his opponent.

    I wouldn't go that far, Don. Not everyone can remember everything all the time, but I work with people who are educated in the fine art of doing exactly that. Before the advent of... how shall I say... computing devices, humans with the ability to remember things were a necessity. It is a skill that can be enhanced through training.

    It does appear that I am attributing the establishment candidate reference to altohone, which was not my intention. The establishment candidate is my perspective.

    I seem to remember that back when CW first mentioned Randy Bryce that Altohone said that Bryce was refusing to debate his Democratic primary challenger and that Bryce was the Party establishment backed candidate. ~ Don Harris

    I simply interpreted it in the exact way it was written above, Don... I am not so tricky that way.

    It is good that Bryce did debate. And it is even possible that even being an establishment backed candidate he may have some good points and might even be an exception and do a good job if elected.

    Just because I may criticize him if he takes Big Money doesn't mean that I think he is all bad. But however good he may be, just like all candidates I think he could be even better by running a small contribution campaign.

    Props to Don Harris for admitting the above versus his standard boilerplate rhetoric regarding Big Money candidates. Welcome to the human race, Don. Yes, I know you are a human; that was a joke. Good on you, though, Don. I am gobsmacked. Very well done, sir. :)

  63. [63] 
    Michale wrote:

    I mean, it's hilarious...

    Ya'all hysterically scream and whine because President Trump is crass and boorish....

    Yet you support Mueller, who colluded with a child pornographer to give the scumbag a slap on the wrist for having tens of thousands of child porn videos and pictures.. No fine.. No Jail... Not even asset forfeiture...

    Mueller is scum...

    I really have to wonder how ya'all sleep at night.. :^/

  64. [64] 
    Kick wrote:

    neilm
    36

    The evidence against Manafort is rock solid - he didn't even mount a legal defense. His "hail mary" is to appeal to the Trump supporters on the jury and turn this into a mini referendum on Mueller's investigation.

    Exactly right, sir.

    Will they put party ahead of justice?

    On all 18 counts? You are the numbers man, Neil. What do you think are the odds? :)

  65. [65] 
    Don Harris wrote:

    Kick-
    I haven't changed my position on Big Money candidates. All I did was say that Bryce could be an exception to the rule- and those exceptions are extremely rare.

    I still wouldn't vote for him if he is indeed a Big Money candidate. I might consider voting for him if the main focus is small contributions as I did with Bernie.

    An exception to the rule for an exception to the rule.

  66. [66] 
    Kick wrote:

    Michale
    37

    I never said Steele had entered the picture.. Victoria did..

    Incorrect. You're either lying or you're as dumb as a rock with no reading comprehension skills and/or critical thinking or reasoning skills whatsoever.

    In other words, same spit... different day. :)

    _______________

    p.s. My sincerest apologies to rocks; I readily concede that attack was unfair to y'all. :)

  67. [67] 
    Michale wrote:

    Incorrect. You're either lying or you're as dumb as a rock with no reading comprehension skills and/or critical thinking or reasoning skills whatsoever.

    Says the crack whore who wouldn't know FACTS if they came up and slapped her on her fat ass...

    It was Republicans/conservatives from the news website "The Washington Free Beacon" that admittedly first hired the political research firm, Fusion GPS, that commissioned a former British intelligence officer Christopher Steele who reported back to Fusion GPS what he had found during his research regarding Trump and produced what is commonly referred to as the "Steele Dossier."
    -CrackWhore AKA Welfare Girl AKA Victoria MyFamilyInventedGuns Kick
    http://www.chrisweigant.com/2018/08/15/the-iron-stache-wins-his-primary/#comment-124645

    Once again.. I have facts...

    Welfare Girl has her latest John's johnson...

  68. [68] 
    Balthasar wrote:

    Yet you support Mueller, who colluded with a child pornographer

    Well, at first I was going to call you full of shit because that story is nowhere to be found on Fox News, but did a little more digging and finally found the story - on Al Jazeera!

    Turns out that the purveyor of kiddie porn is none other than George Nader, who was a met with Erik Prince in the Seychelles to establish a back-channel to the Russians.

    So he's a Trump associate. Figures.

    His only association to Mueller is as a witness to the Seychelles meeting.

    A case brought against him in 1985 was dismissed, due to problems with the warrant used to search his hotel room. A judge did that, not Mueller.

    Nader was in Trump's orbit for years, and was a frequent visitor the the Trump White House during 2017, before agreeing to testify to the Special Counsel, according to the article.

    Although Nader's creepy past was apparently of no concern to the Trump folks for all that time, now that he's testifying, it's suddenly relevant.

    Par for the course.

  69. [69] 
    Kick wrote:

    Russ
    50, 54

    These posts are a masterpiece, sir. :)

  70. [70] 
    Kick wrote:

    Michale: And they discarded it because it was a whole big pile of NOTHING..

    You are the one who stated they discarded the investigation, moron, so I repeat: Incorrect.

    The Washington Free Beacon originally hired Fusion GPS who hired Steele to do research on Trump. Why on Earth would you read more into that statement and jump to the above conclusion? The "Steele Dossier" is a compilation of reports that were compiled at the conclusion of the research... so how do you figure The Washington Free Beacon discarded a compilation of reports that didn't exist at the outset when they were involved?

    Answer: Because you have no critical thinking skills and reasoning is not something you're accustomed to.

    Balthasar is correct. Your comments are reeking with the unmistakable stench of desperation, and I would add that you are in for a huge disappointment regarding Benedict Donald.

    It's very telling indeed that it never crossed your tiny little mind that Senator Graham and the right-wing are outraged... I tell you... OUTRAGED... by the actions of the Clinton campaign regarding "collusion" because her campaign paid for the work to continue on research being done by a political consulting firm started by Republicans who hired an individual in Britain to do research on Donald Trump... meanwhile at the same time you are insisting that a direct meeting between the Trump campaign and multiple Russians with direct ties to Vladimir Putin isn't the least bit illegal because "collusion."

    It's comical to watch you twist yourself into a pretzel with all your ridiculous circular bullshit, and thank you for the additional badges of honor with all the self-loathing names you're hurling at me.

    If you think referring to someone as fat, welfare, and whore are insults:

    * Check your pictures and multiple chins.
    * Check your trailer in the swamps in Shithole.
    * Check your posts where you brag about your life as a whore.

    Your self-loathing is obvious to anyone who reads your repetitive spew. :)

  71. [71] 
    Kick wrote:

    Don Harris
    65

    I haven't changed my position on Big Money candidates. All I did was say that Bryce could be an exception to the rule- and those exceptions are extremely rare.

    Yes, Don. If you're looking for someone with memory problems who constantly needs to have the written word explained to them, you've chosen the wrong commenter. Also, although you did comment that Bryce might be an exception, this "extremely rare" language of yours has only just now been introduced into the conversation with your statement above.

    I still wouldn't vote for him if he is indeed a Big Money candidate.

    Of course you wouldn't because you don't live in the congressional district of WI-1. State the obvious, Don.

    I might consider voting for him if the main focus is small contributions as I did with Bernie.

    Then you better pack your belongings and get moving really quickly to either Kenosha and/or Racine County or certain portions of Milwaukee, Walworth, Waukesha, and/or Rock counties that comprise WI-1 congressional district because honey badger don't care whether or not you'd vote for Iron Stache if you don't live there. :)

  72. [72] 
    Balthasar wrote:

    All I did was say that Bryce could be an exception to the rule

    And yet it's Bryce's appeal to the Right that commentators continue to focus on. The man appears to have the rare advantage of universal appeal.

    Oh, Fox is gonna hate him.

  73. [73] 
    Balthasar wrote:

    Kick: I love you, but sheath your knives, please.

    You don't need 'em, and they make others uncomfortable.

    I think Michale should do the same.

    I have no dog in this fight, but I'm asking as a friend.

  74. [74] 
    Kick wrote:

    Balthsar
    73

    Kick: I love you, but sheath your knives, please.

    I love you too, and I'm willing to do it for you.

    You don't need 'em, and they make others uncomfortable.

    Is this the "we expect that behavior from Michale" while "you should know better" speech? I'm not responsible for the spew that comes out his keyboard.

    I think Michale should do the same.

    Michale won't stop the personal insults that he claims aren't personal because they're preceded by the qualifier of "ya'all"... so then what?

    I have no dog in this fight, but I'm asking as a friend.

    "Dog," Balthy… seriously? Are you taking speech lessons from Trump University? *laughs* *grins* Like I said above, I will do it for you. I cannot make promises for how long. :)

  75. [75] 
    Balthasar wrote:

    I love you too, and I'm willing to do it for you.

    Thank you so much. You have to know that I'm not entirely comfortable interceding this way.

    And no, it's not the "we expect that behavior from Michale" while "you should know better" speech. If I could make him stop too, I really would.

    Perhaps this will work. If, in a few weeks' time, he doesn't also stop making personal attacks, well then you'll have my blessing to filet the shit out of him.

  76. [76] 
    ListenWhenYouHear wrote:

    Kick,

    While I respect your agreeing to Balthy’s request, I didn’t feel you’d crossed any lines today!

    [69] I appreciate you saying that!

    As Treasonous Trump’s day’s as a free man keep counting down, he and his trollkins will only continue to foam at the mouth in fear of what they know is to come! The dossier isn’t proof of anything, it is simply a list of the accusations of wrong doing that were uncovered by one investigator.

    If Steele, all by his lonesome, uncovered that much just by barely scratching the surface, how much more do you think a fully-funded investigation by our intelligence agencies will uncover?

    Trump may be an idiot, but he’s obviously smart enough to recognize that he is an idiot and is going down!

  77. [77] 
    Michale wrote:

    You don't need 'em, and they make others uncomfortable.

    I think Michale should do the same.

    I have never instigated anything..

    If Victoria stops, then I have nothing to respond to...

    If I could make him stop too, I really would.

    You just did.. By asking Victoria to stop.... If she abides by your request then I have nothing to respond to...

    We'll see....

  78. [78] 
    Michale wrote:

    Trump may be an idiot, but he’s obviously smart enough to recognize that he is an idiot and is going down!

    Once again, your biased opinion does not square with the FACTS...

    1. Trump is a VERY successful businessman..

    2. Trump bested 19 very qualified, very well-funded and very experienced politicos...

    3. Trump DEVASTATED the biggest, meanest, most experienced and most well funded political juggernaut in the history of the planet...

    But, thank you... You have demonstrated perfectly why President Trump is able to be so successful..

    By having political opponents underestimate him and write him off as "just an idiot"...

    Claiming President Trump is an idiot is as ridiculous as claiming Odumbo was a moron...

    It's nothing but political bigotry talking without an OUNCE of facts, reality or common sense...

    But, hay... If you want to believe President Trump is going down, I'm with you on that..

    President Trump is going down in history as the most effective President this country has ever seen...

  79. [79] 
    Michale wrote:

    BBBWWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHA

    Manafort jurors end their first day of deliberations asking the judge the definition of "reasonable doubt"....

    BBBWWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

    So much for the "strong case" that Child Porn advocate Mueller put on... :D

    It's either going to be a hung jury or Manafort is going to walk...

    You people are SO SCROOED!!! :D

  80. [80] 
    Michale wrote:

    The jury also asked asked Ellis if the indictment could be amended to show which pieces of evidence go with which charges. Ellis said no, the jury would have to rely on their own memory of the testimony.

    Child Porn lover Mueller put on such a convoluted and confusing case, the jury is hopelessly confused...

    Manafort is going to walk.....

  81. [81] 
    Michale wrote:

    "Nobody likes you. Everybody hates you. You're gonna lose. Smile, ya fuck"
    -Joe Hollenbeck, THE LAST BOY SCOUT

  82. [82] 
    Michale wrote:

    Well, bummer.... ALL OF THE SUDDEN, no one wants to talk about the Manafort case...

    "Gee! I wonder why that is!!!??"
    -Kevin Spacey, THE NEGOTIATOR

    :D heh...

    You guys are a blast...

    See ya'all in the AM.. Gonna watch the new Jeremy Renner movie TAG... :D

    Ni ni...

  83. [83] 
    Kick wrote:

    Balthasar
    75

    Thank you so much. You have to know that I'm not entirely comfortable interceding this way.

    Of course I do... because I can read and I have continuity of thought from one day to the next, and even though you were accused repeatedly of stating you were "comfortable" with corporate/company censorship, you unequivocally and without question stated exactly the opposite merely a few days ago.

    But am I comfortable with mega-companies deciding what gets discussed on the public airwaves? No. I'm against harassment, and the aforementioned 'fighting words' (narrowly defined), but not in favor of censorship. It's messy.

    Again, that's why I'm in favor of net neutrality.

    http://www.chrisweigant.com/2018/08/10/ftp495/#comment-124403

    And no, it's not the "we expect that behavior from Michale" while "you should know better" speech. If I could make him stop too, I really would.

    I don't believe you really would wish to censor language and ideas regardless, but I would wager you'd entertain the idea of a requirement that posters who routinely intentionally lied/twisted your words, invented outright fabricated fake quotes with your name attached to them, and constantly claimed to know what you and everyone else thought/believed/felt/etcetera might be limited to posting their own opinions and not allowed to invent yours. Perhaps. ;)

    Perhaps this will work. If, in a few weeks' time, he doesn't also stop making personal attacks, well then you'll have my blessing to filet the shit out of him.

    This "ya'all" as a qualifier directed toward the posters on this board and then followed by all manner of spewage he desires does nothing to negate the personal attack in my estimation... just so you know.
    :)

  84. [84] 
    Balthasar wrote:

    Kick: even though you were accused repeatedly of stating you were "comfortable" with corporate/company censorship, you unequivocally and without question stated exactly the opposite merely a few days ago.

    True! Thank you for noticing.

    Michale: Child Porn lover Mueller..

    Did you miss my post at [68], or is this another case of "what door"? The Kiddy Porn guy was on Trump's team, until Mueller turned him. The Trump swamp is filled with bottom feeders like this one. If Mueller only turned the angelic ones, he'd have no witnesses.

  85. [85] 
    Kick wrote:

    Russ
    76

    While I respect your agreeing to Balthy’s request, I didn’t feel you’d crossed any lines today!

    I appreciate you saying that! <--- See what I did there? ;)

    [69] I appreciate you saying that!

    I meant every word. I particularly enjoyed the very factual reference to "President Wants-to-plow-his-own-daughter." It was nice of Mikey Cohen to release a tape confirming that Trump knew about at least one of the payouts to the multiple recipients he claimed to have no knowledge, and I would wager there is a treasure trove of tapes where those came from.

    Lordy, I am loving all these tapes wherein Donald Trump and his ilk are being slowly exposed for the criminals and fabricators they are. I said it before, and I'll say it again: If Omarosa has tapes from the SITROOM, can your imagine what the former Director of the FBI turned over to Mueller? Lordy, I would wager there are tapes.

    As Treasonous Trump’s day's as a free man keep counting down, he and his trollkins will only continue to foam at the mouth in fear of what they know is to come! The dossier isn’t proof of anything, it is simply a list of the accusations of wrong doing that were uncovered by one investigator.

    Trump is actually clumsily repeating nearly all of the mistakes that Nixon made... one by one by one and increasing daily. Referring to an investigation into his actions as a "witch hunt," vilifying the press, making an enemies list, etc. with the exception that Trump is doing so much of his bullstank in plain sight. Trump's public admission of the week (so far) is that he stripped John Brennan of his security clearance because of his role in the Russia probe performed by the Department of Justice. Now where have we heard such a public admission before? Trump speaking with Lester Holt and claiming he fired Comey for the same reason... "this 'Rusher' thing."

    In. Plain. Sight.

    If Steele, all by his lonesome, uncovered that much just by barely scratching the surface, how much more do you think a fully-funded investigation by our intelligence agencies will uncover?

    I like the way you think, sir! :)

  86. [86] 
    Kick wrote:

    Balthasar
    68

    Yet you support Mueller, who colluded with a child pornographer. ~ Michale

    Balthy, Mueller didn't choose George Nader, it was Donald Trump and his ilk who chose him, so the facts actually show that it's Michale who unequivocally supports those who "colluded with a child pornographer."

    But what else can you expect from Mueller.. He covered up a Child Porn scumbag and give the scumbag, who had tens of thousands of child porn videos and pictures, just six months house arrest..

    THAT is your champion.. A guy who let's child porn scumbags walk... ~ Michale

    So Balthy… Nader plead guilty to a federal charge of child pornography in 1991 and was sentenced by a judge in Northern Virginia so Mueller had nothing whatsoever to do with Nader's sentencing.

    03/16/2018

    A Middle East expert and analyst who consulted with the Trump administration and was questioned by investigators for special counsel Robert Mueller pleaded guilty to a federal child pornography charge in 1991, court records released on Friday show.

    George Nader, 58, was involved in several foreign policy meetings during the Trump transition and at the White House last year.

    Nader received a six-month sentence from a federal court in Northern Virginia in 1991 on a felony charge of transporting sexually explicit materials in foreign commerce, according to the newly released records and to prison records POLITICO obtained under the Freedom of Information Act.

    U.S. District Court Judge Claude Hilton also imposed a $2,000 fine on Nader, the records show.

    https://www.politico.com/story/2018/03/16/george-nader-child-porn-467776

    All this recently unsealed case to add to what you found regarding Nader meeting with the Trump associates in order to set up a backchannel to Russia.

    Case closed on Trump's association with the pedophile. :)

  87. [87] 
    Balthasar wrote:

    Nice research!

  88. [88] 
    LeaningBlue wrote:

    [86]: Thanks for clearing something up for me. I've been rushing through, and somewhere and somehow michale drew a nexus between Mueller and pedophile(s) and made it a slur du jour.

    I honestly thought, "Oh, my God. The pressure on him is too much, and he's gone all Pizzagate."

    Thankfully, it's only about Nader. Most likely, he was slogging around the fever swamp, and caught a little infection. Maybe he posted a link before he started this silly little name association, but I didn't look that close.

    I'm very hopeful that he'll recover quickly.

  89. [89] 
    LeaningBlue wrote:

    I just want to mention one thing about the trial. The jury members may all have strictly adhered to the instructions to refrain from learning anything about the case from the outside. Nonetheless, they either understand, from absorbing things generally over the 18 months prior to the trial, or they must sense, from the behavior of the press in the packed courtroom, that they are part of history.

    That realization focuses ordinary people and informs their thought processes and their behavior. This is true in natural disasters such as last year's, as well as in any other situation where each is called on to perform a civic duty.

  90. [90] 
    Michale wrote:

    Nice research!

    Except Victoria is completely and utterly WRONG... :D

    You wanna give it a shot???

  91. [91] 
    Michale wrote:

    LB

    This is true in natural disasters such as last year's, as well as in any other situation where each is called on to perform a civic duty.

    Which natural disaster are you referring to??

    Nonetheless, they either understand, from absorbing things generally over the 18 months prior to the trial, or they must sense, from the behavior of the press in the packed courtroom, that they are part of history.

    Yes.. For the first time in history a political Party is trying to negate and nullify a free fair and legal election SOLELY because their total and unequivocal LUSER of a candidate lost...

    Based on the questions the jury asked, I am sure that is going thru their minds...

    It's either going to be a hung jury or Manafort is going to walk...

  92. [92] 
    Michale wrote:

    Yes.. For the first time in history a political Party is trying to negate and nullify a free fair and legal election SOLELY because their total and unequivocal LUSER of a candidate lost...

    Based on the questions the jury asked, I am sure that is going thru their minds...

    It's either going to be a hung jury or Manafort is going to walk...

    Read the novel OUTRAGE by Henry Denker and you'll see where I am coming from...

  93. [93] 
    Kick wrote:

    Michale
    90

    Except Victoria is completely and utterly WRONG... :D

    No, the research isn't WRONG. While it may not be the Pizzagate conspiracy theory-type stuff you wish to discuss in an attempt to deflect from current events and to smear Mueller for a near 2-decades old case that has nothing to do with Mueller's current investigation, the research is regarding Nader is 100% CORRECT.

    George Nader is a pedophile associate of Trump's who has attended foreign policy meetings several times at the White House and was involved in a meeting with associates of Trump who attempted to set up a back channel with Russia during the Obama administration. Trump's pedophile associate is now working with Mueller.

    Mueller as Special Counsel isn't choosing the criminals he has to work with in order to carry out his duties as ordered, he has to work with the pedophiles, tax evaders, bank fraudsters, Russian mafia money launderers, and Russian government agents that Trump and the Trump campaign have chosen to associate with.

    It's not complicated.

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