ChrisWeigant.com

The Life Of The Mother

[ Posted Monday, July 18th, 2022 – 15:10 UTC ]

Since the Supreme Court declared a free-for-all on laws which restrict abortion, Republicans have been in a race to see which state can produce the most extreme forced-birth laws possible. Idaho Republicans seem to have won the award for "most extreme idea yet," as their party convention just rejected an amendment to their party platform which would have allowed for an exception to the state's ban on abortions if the mother was in "lethal danger." The vote wasn't even close: 412-164. So that's where the GOP race to the extremes will inevitably end up, one assumes. If they had their way, Idaho Republicans would condemn all women with ectopic pregnancies to needless death, plain and simple. The fact that if the mother dies the baby will also die doesn't seem to concern them in the least.

The Idaho GOP is out in front of the rest of the Republican Party, but not by much. Before the Dobbs decision was handed down, the big push by anti-abortion politicians was to limit the weeks covered. Abortions would be allowable up to 15 weeks, or 13, or even just six. After that point, abortions would not be allowed. But now that they've achieved their goal at the Supreme Court, the forced-birth contingent is freed from any semblance of rationality. Right now the arguments being fought politically mostly center on the other two exceptions commonly included in laws (up to this point, at any rate) -- allowing abortions in cases of rape and/or incest. The 10-year-old rape victim in Ohio will just be the first such tragic case in the national news, as more and more of these dire situations will be faced by more and more women. It's a lot easier to pontificate about the number of weeks in a political setting than it is to try to explain forcing a fourth-grader to carry her rapist's baby to term.

But sooner or later the debate is going to shift from rape and incest victims to the life of the mother. And much like all the other subjects dealing with abortion, it is not as simple as some might now think. The only truly simplistic stance for Republicans to take is the one taken in Idaho -- no abortion, even if the mother has to die. That doesn't leave any room for confusion, at least. Granted, it is a law even the famed Athenian Draco might have cautioned: "Don't you think this is a little harsh, guys?" But it at least is easy to understand because it leaves no wiggle room at all.

As I said, this debate hasn't even really started yet. But I know full well where it will eventually end up. Common sense would dictate that abortions be allowed if the mother's life is at risk, after all. And even most Republicans will still include that exception (even as they are slowly dropping their support for the rape and incest exceptions). But there's one big situation that nobody's really addressed yet.

Consider what could be a typical case. A woman in a red state -- with a forced-birth law that has a "life of the mother" exception -- gets pregnant. Her pregnancy is medically normal and unthreatening with no complications at all, dangerous or otherwise. But she desperately does not want the baby, for whatever reason. Too poor to travel to a state where abortion is available, she instead visits her doctor. She tells the doctor she is going to commit suicide rather than go through with her pregnancy.

What happens next? The woman's life is at risk, according to her. The only way her life will not be at risk is if she has an abortion. So what does the doctor do? If the doctor does not perform the abortion and the woman does indeed kill herself, what happens? If the doctor does perform the abortion, what happens then? What would the state do?

As I said, this is not as easy as it first seems. The fact that the mother can threaten her own life is not usually considered when politicians grant a "life of the mother" exception. So there is likely not going to be explicit language in the law defining what should happen in that circumstance. What would most likely happen is that the courts would decide the case. Perhaps the doctor is held liable for performing an abortion when there was no actual medical threat to the pregnancy. Or perhaps the doctor is exonerated even after the woman kills herself, for strictly following the forced-birth law. Or the courts could decide that a suicide threat was indeed a serious threat to the woman's life, and allow for abortions to be performed under such circumstances even with a strong forced-birth law on the books.

If you think that is farfetched, there was an actual legal case where this happened. Not here in America -- in the Republic of Ireland, which until recently had one of the most strict abortion laws imaginable, not just "on the books," but actually enshrined within their constitution. But in 1992 the Irish Supreme Court ruled (in the case of Attorney General v. X, or just "the X case") that there was indeed a "real and substantial risk" to the life of the anonymous 14-year-old known as "X," because she admitted she had been having suicidal thoughts.

It is impossible to predict how courts here will handle such decisions, of course, when such a case gets to any state court, federal court, or the Supreme Court. To me, however, it seems almost inevitable that they're going to have to consider the issue sooner or later. And even if the courts do rule that suicide is a valid threat to the life of the mother, Republicans will almost certainly then try to respond legislatively. The laws will change from reading: "if the life of the mother is at risk" to: "if the life of the mother is at risk from serious medical complications with the pregnancy," most likely.

Again, though, this discussion hasn't even really begun. And if the Idaho Republicans are any indication, maybe the debate won't even be allowed to take place -- if they have their way any serious pregnancy complication will become a death sentence for women. But even if the GOP as a whole takes a step back from such unforgiving (and, frankly, homicidal) laws, they're still going to have to face the "pro-life" question of whether they're in favor of just condoning suicide rather than saving a woman's life by giving her an abortion.

"Life of the mother" exceptions may sound non-controversial at first, but when all the other exceptions are removed, it will become of paramount importance. Sooner or later this discussion will have to happen. What does saving the "life of the mother" actually mean?

-- Chris Weigant

 

Follow Chris on Twitter: @ChrisWeigant

 

51 Comments on “The Life Of The Mother”

  1. [1] 
    Elizabeth Miller wrote:

    What does control over your own freakin' body mean?

  2. [2] 
    Elizabeth Miller wrote:

    Exceptions is not where this discussion should go, in other words.

  3. [3] 
    Elizabeth Miller wrote:

    Any man - or woman, for that matter - who believes that abortion should be a legal issue with the state having control over a woman's body deserves to be called out for who and what they really are.

    That's where the discussion should go!

  4. [4] 
    MtnCaddy wrote:

    Beau's take on the newly issued Uvalde report. (7:40)

    I summarize:

    Yes, Virginia, there was systemic failure at Uvalde ... and this report is part of that systemic failure. Because it diffuses responsibility and that diffuses accountability. And that means nothing will change.

    [That's why Civilian control of both our military and law enforcement are so critical. We the People are the ultimate consumers here.-MC]


    SCOTUS factoid:

    Did you know that 1981's Warren v. DC and 1989's Deschanel v. Winnebago County limited law enforcement's duty to protect the public only includes the public ... if they're in custody?

    That's why going home every night is more important to our law enforcement than to serve and protect.


    Thank you Repug SCOTUS -- may I have another?

  5. [5] 
    MtnCaddy wrote:

    DeShaney v. Winnebago County

  6. [6] 
    Mezzomamma wrote:

    The case that finally enabled a change in Ireland (not the only such case by any means) was a young woman dying needlessly while suffering a miscarriage because doctors were afraid to intervene in time to save her life. (So-called heartbeat rules generally take effect before there is an actual heart.) To emphasize: this young woman had an early miscarriage and sought prompt medical help, but the miscarriage couldn't be stopped and it was much too early for her wanted baby to be viable. The doctors didn't intervene and remove the no-longer living contents of her womb until the resulting sepsis was beyond treating.

    An earlier scandalous case in Ireland, partially analogous to the Ohio case, saw a young girl prohibited by a court from leaving the country, while the middle-aged man who raped her received no punishment because the child was too traumatized to testify in court. Eventually a higher court allowed her to go to the UK for an abortion.

    This will happen in forced-birth states--I fear many will change their laws only after suitably photogenic cases. Women who wanted their babies will die from being denied timely treatment; other raped children will be told they must suffer the physical damage pregnancy and childbirth inflict on immature bodies.

    My youngest is expecting, half-way along and everything healthy so far. If something should, god forbid, go drastically wrong, I want the doctors to save my daughter's life, even if they can't save the baby as well.

  7. [7] 
    MtnCaddy wrote:

    [3]

    I'll bite.

    Who and what are they really?

  8. [8] 
    Elizabeth Miller wrote:

    Haven't I already explained that?

  9. [9] 
    Elizabeth Miller wrote:

    You're not one of them, are you, Caddy?

  10. [10] 
    Michale wrote:

    MC,

    In a rational political environment this would also lay to rest the notion that all you need to stop a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun foolishness.

    Really???

    OK... So using YOUR reasoning...

    The reasoning that ONE single instance is representative of ALL instances of this kind...

    Then the good guy with a gun who stopped the mall shooting "lays to rest the notion" that that bad guys with guns can't be stopped by good guys with guns..

    Do you see how utterly ridiculous you sound, MC??

    This was ONE instance where good guys with guns didn't stop the bad guy with a gun soon enough..

    And YOU (and Russ as well, apparently (not surprising)) think that THAT ONE INSTANCE of failure means that the bad guy/good guy with guns concept isn't accurate??

    WHY am I not surprised at how shallow and obtuse ya'all's thinking is??

    :eyeroll:

  11. [11] 
    Michale wrote:

    Any man - or woman, for that matter - who believes that abortion should be a legal issue

    You didn't seem to mind abortion being a legal issue when the legal issue was in your favor??

    NOW, all of the sudden, because the courts ruled in a manner YOU don't like, all of the sudden you are AGAINST abortion being a legal issue..

    Do you know what that is called, Liz???

  12. [12] 
    Michale wrote:


    END OF WATCH

    Police Officer Brian Olliff
    Natchitoches Police Department, Louisiana
    End of Watch: Sunday, July 17, 2022


    And remind the few...
    When ill of us they speak..
    That we are all that stands between..
    The monsters and the weak...

  13. [13] 
    Michale wrote:

    Interesting new development on the Good Guy With A Gun in Indiana...

    Seems that the mall was a GUN FREE ZONE...

    It's a good thing that this good samaritan ignored the mall's rules, eh??

    Obviously the scumbag mass shooter ignored the rules..

    Using MC's & Russ' reasoning, this is proof positive that gun free zones don't work and just lead to MORE deaths...

  14. [14] 
    Michale wrote:

    Using MC/Russ reasoning...

    Since the good guy with a gun parable has been absolutely proven beyond any doubt as to be factually accurate...

    Anti gun nuts are freaking out, wishing that the good guy with a gun had followed the rules of the mall and therefore MANY MORE would have been killed, allowing the anti gun nuts to politicize more tragic deaths..

    :eyeroll:

    Gun control advocates stunned man who allegedly shot Indiana mall shooter labeled 'Good Samaritan'

    Critics argued the term 'Good Samaritan' did not apply to killing in self-defense
    https://www.foxnews.com/us/gun-control-advocates-stunned-man-allegedly-shot-indiana-mall-shooter-labeled-good-samaritan

    Get that????

    If you use your legally carried firearm and save innocent lives, that doesn't make you a good samaritan.. At least, according to anti gun nuts...

    What IS it with anti gun nuts that they are so hysterically bat shit crazy???

  15. [15] 
    Michale wrote:

    Woke is crashing and burning..

    Thank the gods!! :D

    Nervous media warns the wokesters

    Megan McArdle at the Washington Post was the first to sound the alarm, writing, “Unlike a Rorschach test, however, this one has a right answer, and the progressives have it wrong. Moreover, the fact that they can’t see just how badly this exchange went for their side shows what a big mistake it was to let academia and media institutions turn into left-wing monocultures.” This went over on Twitter about as well as expected.

    CNN host and analyst Fareed Zakaria then warned at the Washington Post that the Democratic Party was heading for ruin by obsessing over things like pronouns. Zakaria said that instead, “Democrats need to become the party of building things.” He’s right, but in the insular world of Twitter, it didn’t matter. The Post changed the headline of the piece, caving to an outraged hoard of wokesters, which in turn, kind of proved Zakaria’s point.

    Democrats are facing a bloodbath in the November midterms, yet these warnings seem to be falling on deaf ears. That’s true even with polling staring them in the face. Per Axios, more Hispanics and minorities are drifting away from the Democratic Party, while more educated white and coastal elites are embracing the new campus hegemony. 2022 and 2024 could thus become elections at least in part about basic human biology.
    https://spectatorworld.com/topic/nervous-media-warns-the-wokesters/

    I would implore Democrats to please, by all means, continue on this ignorant path of WOKE and follow that path to it's ONLY logical and rational conclusion..

    The decimation of the Democrat Party as a meaningful factor in American politics..

    Stay the course, Democrats.. Please.. Stay the course.. :D

  16. [16] 
    Michale wrote:

    One of the BEST indictments of Democrats possible..

    https://images.newrepublic.com/d2f1ebc1a1e400298033b6910557c0dab2f98567.jpeg?auto=compress&ar=3%3A2&fit=crop&crop=faces&fm=jpg&ixlib=react-9.0.2&w=958&q=65&dpr=1

    What a terrible thing it is when a community boasts to newcomers about how quick and easy it is to kill your baby there.. :eyeroll:

    A PERFECT microcosm of how Democrats and their way of thinking are completely and utterly despicable.

  17. [17] 
    Michale wrote:

    Although he is loathe to admit it..

    Russ and I are on the exact same page when it comes to the Uvalde shooting specifically and how Democrats hate cops in general..

    It's nice ta have some common ground on SOME things... :D

  18. [18] 
    Michale wrote:

    Opinion: Progressives are practically doing Republicans' job for them
    (CNN)The conservative-controlled Supreme Court has thrown out Roe v. Wade, rolling back women's rights a half-century. Senate Republicans are using the filibuster to block voting rights, climate legislation and President Joe Biden's sweeping plan to strengthen the middle class.

    Republican governors like Gregg Abbott of Texas are banning books, while Ron DeSantis of Florida is targeting transgender youth. Meanwhile, many Republicans are still lying about the outcome of the 2020 election -- and, in the case of Missouri Republican Senate hopeful Eric Greitens, suggesting the use of violence against their political foes (Greitens claims he was just being metaphorical).
    So, with women's and trans rights under assault, the planet on fire and democracy under assault, some Democrats are furious with... Biden.

    https://www.cnn.com/2022/07/14/opinions/progressives-mad-joe-biden-begala

    One really has to LAUGH at progressive Democrats.. :D

    They are actually the CAUSE of many of the problems plaguing the Democrat Party.. :D

    Yet they tool around searching for a scapegoat that will allow them to avoid looking at the REAL problem in a mirror.. :D

    Democrats eating their own.. I LOVE IT!! :D

  19. [19] 
    Michale wrote:

    "We need our president at this moment to step up and remind everyone that we Democrats don't believe the government should be making a decision about whether to continue a pregnancy."
    -Elizabeth Fauxchohantas

    And yet heap big Injun was perfectly happy with government making the decisions on baby killing when that decision was what Fauxchohantas wanted... :eyeroll:

    Hypocrisy is not a bug in Democrat programming. It's a feature..

  20. [20] 
    Michale wrote:

    A recent Quinnipiac University poll showed Biden's approval rating at just 25% among voters aged 18 to 34 years old and 33% among voters aged 35 to 49. In the 2020 election, younger voters were Biden's strongest age cohort; now they are his weakest. And, according to the latest New York Times/Siena College poll, 64% of Democrats now want a different leader to be the standard bearer in 2024.

    How EMBARRASSING it must be for ya'all to see Biden's poll numbers lower than President Trump's numbers!!! :D

    I mean, that's just GOTTA sting, eh?? :D

  21. [21] 
    Michale wrote:

    "The Democratic Party has been the greatest vehicle for economic justice, social justice and racial justice in the last 100 years."
    - Rep. Ro Khanna

    Well, except for that KKK and Jim Crow thing...

    AND except for fighting tooth and nail against EVERY civil rights laws of the 50s and 60s...

    Yea, except for THAT, how did you like the play, Mrs Lincoln...

    :eyeroll:

    What IS it about ya'all's Democrats that they are so completely and utterly delusional, eh??

  22. [22] 
    Michale wrote:

    And how you tried to make it work
    Did you really think it could?
    How you tried to make it last
    Did you really think it would?

    Like a guest who stayed too long
    Now it's finally time to leave
    Yes, it's finally time to leave
    Take it calmly and serene
    It's the famous final scene

    It's been coming on so long
    You were just the last to know
    It's been a long time since you've smiled
    Seems like, oh, so long ago

    Now the stage has all been set
    And the nights are growing cold
    Soon the winter will be here
    And there's no one warm to hold

    -Bob Seger, THE FAMOUS FINAL SCENE

    One hundred and eleven days, Democrats...

    Winter's Coming...

    :D

  23. [23] 
    Michale wrote:

    IS LIZ CHENEY TOAST?

    A new poll in the Casper Star-Tribune shows Republican and Jan. 6 committee star Rep. Liz Cheney losing big to challenger Harriet Hageman in the Wyoming House GOP primary. The survey has Hageman's support at 52% and Cheney's at 30%, with minor candidates or undecideds making up the rest of the total.

    A 22-point lead is pretty hard to overcome with less than a month to go before the Aug. 16 primary. And remember, the Wyoming primary is a winner-take-all affair. Whoever gets the most votes wins the Republican nomination. There won't be a runoff or any other second act. The Republican winner then goes on to certain victory in November's general election in heavily Republican Wyoming.

    Hageman's lead in the poll is roughly consistent with other surveys of the race. "Polling from Wyoming is limited, but what does exist paints an ominous picture [for Cheney]," CNN's Harry Enten wrote recently in an article headlined "Why Liz Cheney is in a lot of trouble in Wyoming." The poll is just the latest confirmation of warning signs for Cheney.
    https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/is-liz-cheney-toast

    Yes... Liz Cheney is toast... :D

    And it couldn't happen to a more deserving scumbag...

    But, on the plus side, she has given me one of the most delicious moments in history...

    Democrats bending the knee and kissing the ring of Dick 'Darth Vader' Cheney...

    Humiliation-wise, THAT even eclipses the blatant pandering moment when Democrats so-called "leaders" all solemnly knelt display the kente cloth...

    THAT was hugely humiliating for Democrats.. But it was far surpassed by Democrats groveling bending the knee and kissing the ring of Darth Cheney... :D

    Thanx for THAT at least, Liz Cheney... :D

    Don't let the door hit ya on the way out, moron.. :D

  24. [24] 
    Michale wrote:

    House Democrats tout bill to add four seats to Supreme Court
    https://thehill.com/homenews/house/3564588-house-democrats-offer-bill-to-add-four-seats-to-supreme-court/

    OK, so the House passes this bill..

    It sits in the SENATE INBOX until 2025 when President Trump is re-sworn into office and the GOP holds the Senate..

    Then the Senate passes this DEMOCRAT bill and President Trump is allowed to pick **FOUR MORE** SCOTUS justices.. Creating a 10-3 Conservative SCOTUS.. :D

    YES!!!!!!!

    And Democrats prove ONCE AGAIN, that they are the KINGS of short-term ignore-the-consequences thinking....

    :D

  25. [25] 
    Michale wrote:

    Arrests in Chicago plummet to historic lows as crime rises and police admittedly pull back: 'No way'

    Traffic stops and investigative stops have also dropped in Chicago
    https://www.foxnews.com/us/arrests-chicago-plummet-historic-lows-crime-rises-police-admittedly-pull-back-no-way

    A perfect example of the ignored consequences of Democrats and their DEFUND, DEMORALIZE, DEMONIZE THE POLICE policies...

    But I have to admit.. I am a little disappointed in my LEO brethren here...

    People choose to be cops not for the glory... Definitely not for the pay...

    People choose to be cops for the sense of right and wrong and to protect and serve... And a whole host of other community service and public safety reasons...

    While I completely, utterly and unequivocally sympathize with LEOs today....

    If yer not going to do the job...

    Why put on the badge in the first place??

  26. [26] 
    Michale wrote:

    Chicago police have arrested the fewest number of suspects in at least 20 years amid a crime wave that has continued raging in the city since 2020.

    "In the past, I might see a guy with a gun in his waistband, and I’d jump out and chase him," one decorated officer said, according to the Chicago Sun-Times. "No way I’d do that now."

    Police made arrests in 12% of crime cases in 2021, which is the lowest rate since 2001, when the data was first released, the Chicago-Sun Times analysis found. The number of arrests in Chicago peaked in 2005 when arrests were made in nearly 31% of reported crimes. That number has been on the decline since, the data shows.

    The number of traffic stops and tickets have also dropped, and the number of investigative stops fell by more than 50% between 2019 and 2021. Fewer crimes are also being reported to the police department by both residents and officers on beats, according to the analysis.

    Great job, Democrats.. :eyeroll:

  27. [27] 
    Michale wrote:

    One Year Ago, Biden Predicted Inflation Would Be ‘Temporary’

    Outside economists were warning last July that high prices were a sign of coming high inflation. “But that’s not our view,” the president said a year ago today. He had consulted with his economists, and they had reviewed their charts, and Biden waved away the alarm bells.

    “Our experts believe, and the data shows,” Biden said, “that most of the price increases we’ve seen were expected and expected to be temporary.”

    The numbers the president was reading when he offered that optimistic forecast showed an annualized rate of inflation of 5.4%. The latest numbers, figures from June of 2022, show an inflation rate of 9.1% – the fastest pace in four decades and the defining challenge of an increasingly beleaguered presidency.

    From the president to his press secretary, the White House insisted that long-term inflation was unlikely. And the word they started using last summer to describe the phenomenon they hoped would be temporary was “transitory.” Inflation has instead stayed high for 13 back-to-back months. In that time, the administration blamed a number of causes from the lingering pandemic to a land war in Europe.
    https://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2022/07/19/one_year_ago_biden_predicted_inflation_would_be_temporary_147914.html

    Great call, Biden's Handlers.. :eyeroll:

  28. [28] 
    Elizabeth Miller wrote:

    Michale,

    This was ONE instance where good guys with guns didn't stop the bad guy with a gun soon enough..

    I've been following the Uvalde shooting pretty closely but there is one thing I'm wondering about.

    How many kids in those two classrooms did the LEOs end up saving?

  29. [29] 
    Elizabeth Miller wrote:

    Michale,

    Yes, you always side with the LEOs, whether they are trigger-happy, at one extreme or incompetent, at the other extreme.

    I'd love to see you (and Russ) highlight the many daily cases in which LEOs acted promptly and with a sense of urgency and exemplary competency in carrying out their duties.

    I keep thinking of that lone officer on the highway with his gun held and pleading with the potential assailant with a knife, saying that he didn't want to shoot him over and over again, all the while trying his level best to de-escalate the situation until back-up arrived. Which he did, quite successfully!

    Now THAT is the kind of police work I wish you guys would highlight and support, at least as much as the extreme examples that always put LEOs in a bad light. That would certainly be a far better used of time and energy here.

  30. [30] 
    Elizabeth Miller wrote:

    ... saying that he didn't want to shoot him, over and over again ...

    commas are important!

  31. [31] 
    Michale wrote:

    Liz,

    Yes, you always side with the LEOs, whether they are trigger-happy, at one extreme or incompetent, at the other extreme.

    Yes.. I ALWAYS side with LEOs.. Due to the nature of what they do... what they MEAN for society??

    LEOs are due the benefit of ANY and EVERY doubt possible..

    I'd love to see you (and Russ) highlight the many daily cases in which LEOs acted promptly and with a sense of urgency and exemplary competency in carrying out their duties.

    98% of interactions that LEOs have with the general public are positive and proper where most interested parties are happy..

  32. [32] 
    Michale wrote:

    Here's how much Kerry family's private jet has emitted in the two years he's been climate envoy

    John Kerry's family private jet emitted over 300 metric tons of carbon since Biden took office

    Special presidential envoy for climate John Kerry arrived in Berlin, Germany on Tuesday for the Petersberg Climate Dialogue
    https://www.foxnews.com/politics/john-kerrys-family-private-jet-emitted-300-metric-tons-carbon-biden-took-office

    This is exactly why it's IMPOSSIBLE to take Democrats seriously about climate change..

    Cuz the people who are causing the MOST pollution are the ones screaming the LOUDEST...

    Hypocrisy is not a bug in Democrat programming. It's a feature...

  33. [33] 
    Michale wrote:

    "The problem with folks like John Kerry and the climate hypocrites who run the green movement is that they want to use the coercive power of government. They want to use it internationally with groups like the UN, etc. They want to use the power of government to deny the rest of us the ability to use those fossil fuels that they take for granted.

    They refuse to voluntarily live how they want the rest of us to be forced to live. It doesn't just make them hypocrites, it makes them, quite frankly, a threat to the rights and freedoms of people around the world. When John Kerry voluntarily lives the way he wants the rest of us to be compelled to live, then we can talk about his climate goals."

    Come talk to me when hysterical global warming morons start practicing what they preach..

    When ya'all quit driving your gas guzzling and polluting POVs and when you stop using electricity to power all your IPADs and crap..

    THEN ya'all will have a moral leg to stand on..

    Not before...

  34. [34] 
    Michale wrote:

    Now THAT is the kind of police work I wish you guys would highlight and support, at least as much as the extreme examples that always put LEOs in a bad light. That would certainly be a far better used of time and energy here.

    And THAT kind of police work happens a lot more than YOU give cops credit for.. The vast majority, upwards of 98% of police/civilian interaction ends exactly like your example..

    But THAT kind of police work is not widely disseminated by the cop-hating media and cop-hating Democrats..

    Basically Democrats attack and denigrate **ALL** cops for the actions of relatively FEW....

    So, whose in the wrong here???

    As a veteran patrol officer, I can assure you with complete confidence and authority..

    Democrats are in the wrong here...

  35. [35] 
    Elizabeth Miller wrote:

    Michale,

    Rewarding incompetence does not serve the vast majority of LEOs very well. I would think you would wish to make them the best they can be. That's what I would wish to do, at any rate.

    That is why I wish you guys would highlight the 98% more often! Of course, I am probably making myself about as clear as mud. I should really get back to those wonderfully non-brief comments I used to love making. :-)

  36. [36] 
    Elizabeth Miller wrote:

    But THAT kind of police work is not widely disseminated by the cop-hating media and cop-hating Democrats..

    That is why you and others and other Dems should be highlighting the best of the best, all the time!

  37. [37] 
    Michale wrote:

    Manhattan DA moves to drop murder charge against NYC bodega worker in deadly stabbing

    Second degree murder charge to be dropped against Jose Alba
    https://www.foxnews.com/us/manhattan-da-moves-drop-murder-charge-nyc-bodega-worker-deadly-stabbing

    He should never have been charged..

    Democrats are morons...

  38. [38] 
    Elizabeth Miller wrote:

    Democrats are in the wrong here...

    You generalize way too much ... to a dangerous fault, in fact. And, not just with this issue but, with ALL issues.

  39. [39] 
    Michale wrote:

    You generalize way too much ... to a dangerous fault, in fact. And, not just with this issue but, with ALL issues.

    Point out the facts that support the claim that I generalize too much when it comes to Democrats, excluding Weigantians..

    You can't because it just ain't so..

  40. [40] 
    Michale wrote:

    It's not just Hunter Biden: Prepare for a 2023 packed with House GOP investigations

    Republicans know they're legislatively limited even if they take the majority next year. So they plan to focus on inquiries into the border, Afghanistan, baby formula and more.
    https://www.politico.com/news/2022/07/19/hunter-biden-gop-2023-00046419

    And Impeachments.. Don't forget monthly Impeachments..

  41. [41] 
    Michale wrote:

    That is why I wish you guys would highlight the 98% more often!

    You can blame your Left Wing Media and Cop Hating Democrats for THAT...

  42. [42] 
    Elizabeth Miller wrote:

    Michale,

    Point out one example where you supported anything that Democrats did or said and actually meant it.

    You didn't so you can't. You take sweeping generalizations to new heights, every single time you make a comment. Every. Single. Comment. Period.

  43. [43] 
    Elizabeth Miller wrote:

    You can blame your Left Wing Media and Cop Hating Democrats for THAT...

    No, I can blame you. Because, you are part of the problem. Try being part of the solution for a change. You'll like it!

  44. [44] 
    Elizabeth Miller wrote:

    And, another thing, Michale, you make too many wrong-headed assumptions about people, and that goes double for Weigantians.

  45. [45] 
    ListenWhenYouHear wrote:

    Michale

    The number of traffic stops and tickets have also dropped, and the number of investigative stops fell by more than 50% between 2019 and 2021. Fewer crimes are also being reported to the police department by both residents and officers on beats, according to the analysis.

    Of course the number of investigative traffic stops fell by more than 50% between 2019 and 2021... it was the due to a little thing called THE PANDEMIC!!! Police departments limited their contact with the public as much as possible. Property crime reports and civil complaints were done over the phone or online.

    And if fewer people are calling 911 to report crime, how are the police expected to respond to those crimes that they know nothing about???

    I mean, if the authors of this report are that dumb, I wouldn't put much faith into what they are saying.

  46. [46] 
    ListenWhenYouHear wrote:

    That is why I wish you guys would highlight the 98% more often! Of course, I am probably making myself about as clear as mud. I should really get back to those wonderfully non-brief comments I used to love making. :-)

    Liz, I wish we would too. Most departments have Facebook pages and Twitter accounts that do promote the good deeds that their officers have done. Sadly, the media just aren't too motivated to report on those stories too often.

    I am still shocked that a primary school system would have their own police force. That is usually done in college towns and universities where you have an influx of outsiders moving to area for schooling. College towns can go from having 10K "local" residents in the summer time to over 50K once the fall school year begins. Primary school students already live in the area of the school that they attend. Both my parents were educators, my father being an executive for school systems in GA for 30 yrs and AL for 15 yrs. I have never heard of a school system police force prior to this shooting.

    Knowing the limited type of calls that they would be responding to, I could see the Uvalde School System Police Department attracting a lot of older officers that want a slower pace. Again, I cannot understand how they justified creating a special purpose district police department in the first place, but they did. Is Uvalde a college town?

    Every week in this country, police respond to literally millions of calls for service without incident. Before 2020, the media loved to talk about "the epidemic of police violence" in this country. They stopped once it became clear that the police, unlike epidemics, weren't killing thousands of people on a daily basis. Most years, less than 5% of police departments have even a single officer involved shooting according to FBI data. The police just aren't as violent as the media wants you to believe.

  47. [47] 
    Mezzomamma wrote:

    As a very general comment, let me point out that the other half of the proverb 'One rotten apple' (or a few rotten apples) is 'spoils the barrel.' Good policing should be celebrated--shout-out to friend Phil who did wonderful crime prevention work locally--and the rotten apples should be removed. A lot of places need to look hard at their recruiting and training; others need to think about deployment and what is good practise.

  48. [48] 
    ListenWhenYouHear wrote:

    Republicans know they're legislatively limited even if they take the majority next year. So they plan to focus on inquiries into the border, Afghanistan, baby formula and more.
    https://www.politico.com/news/2022/07/19/hunter-biden-gop-2023-00046419

    And Impeachments.. Don't forget monthly Impeachments..

    Republicans are announcing that they plan to abuse the Impeachment process ahead of time... brilliant!

    And of course they are "legislatively limited even if they take the majority next year." When you base whether you will support a piece of legislation solely on a single factor: if it will make Biden look good to Americans, then you must oppose it! They are only limited because they choose to be! Republicans do not even attempt to argue that they stand for anything anymore. They worship at the feet of a man who doesn't give a shit about any of them.

    Nothing prevents them from working with the Democrats to actually get good legislation passed. How many Republicans have been busted taking credit for good things that the laws Congress passed last year caused to happen... forgetting to mention the fact that they voted against the legislation?

  49. [49] 
    Kick wrote:

    ListenWhenYouHear
    48

    They worship at the feet of a man who doesn't give a shit about any of them.

    Exactly right, Russ, and the vast majority of them seem far too focused on their asinine belief that they're "owning the libs" to catch on to the obvious fact that they are literally the ones being owned by a con artist who wouldn't spit on them to put them out if they were on fire.

    Hell, if Trump thought it would be beneficial to Trump, he'd light the match and set them on fire himself and then sit on his ample ass doing absolutely nothing except watching gleefully while allowing them to burn... which is exactly what Benedict Donald did.

  50. [50] 
    ListenWhenYouHear wrote:

    They refuse to voluntarily live how they want the rest of us to be forced to live. It doesn't just make them hypocrites, it makes them, quite frankly, a threat to the rights and freedoms of people around the world. When John Kerry voluntarily lives the way he wants the rest of us to be compelled to live, then we can talk about his climate goals.

    Why would Kerry need to voluntarily live how he'll be forced to live? How would you be able to tell if he is doing it voluntarily or if he is being forced to live a certain way?

    Also, "forced to live" how, exactly? What freedoms are supposedly being taken from you?

    Again, it is comical that you are against an idea based solely on the fact that liberals support it.

  51. [51] 
    Kick wrote:

    ListenWhenYouHear
    50

    They refuse to voluntarily live how they want the rest of us to be forced to live. It doesn't just make them hypocrites, it makes them, quite frankly, a threat to the rights and freedoms of people around the world.

    ~ Michale, the whining right-wingnut with no self-awareness

    OMG, Russ, did you ever notice how the whining righties are always the effing victims in almost every scenario and have almost no ability whatsoever to connect dots and absolutely zero self awareness about how their whining BS applies to themselves!? When Michale voluntarily gives birth to his rapist's child, then we can talk about his right-wing goals for forced childbirth.

    Why would Kerry need to voluntarily live how he'll be forced to live? How would you be able to tell if he is doing it voluntarily or if he is being forced to live a certain way?

    You're asking Michale to connect dots!? You do realize the Michale routine is limited to devolving every political issue into approximately two simple issues which require no critical thinking skills, right?

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