ChrisWeigant.com

The Second Wave's Political Effects

[ Posted Thursday, June 25th, 2020 – 16:48 UTC ]

What is the second wave of the coronavirus pandemic going to do right in the midst of an election season? That may sound like a rather crass question to be asking right now, so let me clearly state that this is undoubtedly going to involve a whole lot of deaths that probably could have been prevented -- which is an ongoing tragedy for all. We're already north of 120,000 deaths, and the total we eventually reach is going to depend in large part on how big the second wave turns out to be. That represents widespread human suffering on a massive scale. But it's also going to affect the politics of the 2020 election, one way or another, which is what I'm choosing to focus on today.

Many are now quibbling over the terminology, which is kind of pointless. Is it a truly a second wave or merely a second part of the first? Is it "Wave 1.5" or "Wave 2.0," in other words? My answer is a resounding: "Who cares what you call it -- just acknowledge that it exists!" Epidemiologists can split these hairs later, when they look back at all the data. For now, it's obviously a second spike in the caseload no matter what you ultimately decide it should be called. So for simplicity's sake, as far as I'm concerned, it is a second wave plain and simple.

Looking at the seven-day average for the number of new cases reported each day shows this second wave developing in the past week or so. When the pandemic started, we saw a sharp spike up to over 30,000 new cases per day, in February and March. Eventually this started slowly shrinking, until it reached a plateau of around 20,000 cases per day last month. But last month is when many governors decided to reopen their economies. What we're seeing now is -- after accounting for the built-in lag time -- a direct result of all this reopening in May. The problem with that built-in lag time, though, is that we're really only measuring the spread of the virus roughly three weeks ago. And those three weeks have already happened -- meaning nothing anybody does now will have the slightest effect on the numbers for the next two or three weeks. The likelihood is that the spike we're currently experiencing -- as cases rise beyond 30,000 per day once again -- will get even worse for the foreseeable future. And nobody knows where it'll top out. It could just stay where it is now, or it could climb to 35,000 or even 40,000 new cases per day. Nobody really knows.

The really alarming thing about the numbers is the slope of the graph (look at any of the "seven-day average" graphs to see what I'm talking about). The caseload did not gradually creep back up to where it was at the peak of the first wave, instead it shot up within a week's time. That's very concerning since (again) nobody now knows where it'll peak. The curve is bending, but in precisely the wrong direction.

There's a political argument going on about how concerning all this should be, which mostly centers around an argument that the new cases we're seeing now is only a function of the widespread testing we are finally doing. To put it another way, if we had been testing at the level we now are back in March, April, and May, the numbers would have been worse back then, too. There aren't a huge number of new cases beyond what it was before, we're just identifying more of them, that's all.

This argument doesn't hold water for a few reasons. The most obvious to see is that increased testing nationwide has not shown a uniform rise in cases in all states. In roughly half the states, the numbers are actually going down, while they're going up in the others. If increased caseload was merely a function of increased testing, this would not be true -- we'd be seeing more cases everywhere.

The other rather concerning thing about the current spike is that it runs counter to one big prediction that some (most definitely including Donald Trump) have been making: that the virus would recede in the summertime because viruses in general don't like hot weather. But the spike we're now seeing is mostly centered in the Sun Belt states -- the states where the temperatures are the highest, right as we head into summer. There has been no general abatement, and COVID-19 seems to spread just fine in hot climates.

So what does all this mean politically? Well, that too is kind of unknowable, due to all the unique circumstances we're all now in. We've never had a president (or many governors, for that matter) who seem to think if they clap their hands real hard that the virus will just quietly go away. We haven't experienced this kind of pandemic for 100 years, so how it will affect today's politics is anyone's guess, too.

Governors -- even ones from ruby-red states that reopened as early as they possibly could -- are now announcing they are "pausing" their reopening plans. But pausing isn't reinstituting stricter controls on society. If things get worse -- if hospitals in entire cities become overwhelmed the way they were in New York City during the first wave -- then some of these governors are going to have to bite the bullet and announce they're moving backwards. Call it "reclosing" their economies. I should mention in all fairness that this is likely going to happen in both blue states and red, so that should at least spread the political blame game around a bit.

State politics aside, though, how will it all affect the presidential race? For the past month, Donald Trump has decided to focus his campaign efforts on announcing "the great American comeback." President Trump bravely faced down all the scientific weenies who didn't know what they were talking about and threw the doors of the mighty American economy wide open again, and everyone lived happily ever after. That was the plan, at any rate. Trump gambled on there being no second wave, or a second wave only developing in the fall (after seeing some very positive economic numbers throughout the summer). That plan is fast becoming inoperable, obviously.

Trump gambled big, and he might just be about to lose this bet in an enormous way. Because if the viewpoint that Trump actually caused the second wave by forcing reopening to happen too early, then he's going to look like the villain rather than the savior by most of the public. And this will only serve to reinforce the image of Trump's pandemic response that has already set in. Trump gets very low marks for his handling of the crisis, with some polls now showing the public disapproves at the level of 2-to-1 against those who think Trump has done a good job. And that was before the second wave appeared. How many more people are going to decide Trump bungled his response if the economy has to shutter back up again?

For the past few weeks, Trump and his administration and his campaign team have all decided that they are bored with the pandemic, and would really rather talk about something (anything!) else. Trump speaks as if the crisis is fading into the past. His advisors echo this head-in-the-sand viewpoint. The coronavirus daily White House briefings were abandoned weeks ago. Astonishingly, just when Texas is experiencing its biggest spike yet, the Trump administration now wants to close down the handful of drive-through testing sites they've been paying for in Texas. Trump himself complained at a rally that he is begging his scientists to slow down all the testing, so that the numbers look better for him. Trump's campaign team mocks Joe Biden for still practicing social distancing while Trump boldly strides before cheering audiences, in two states where caseloads are going through the roof.

This is beyond a risky political strategy, it is fast becoming a downright insane one. It goes beyond being seen as "out of touch." Trump is teetering on inhabiting an alternate universe of facts, which isn't generally a good way to get elected.

What is Trump going to do if it becomes painfully apparent that not just the pandemic but the economy as a whole is now entering the halfway point through a "W-shaped" recovery? If we're in the middle of a "W," then we're about to head right back down the hill we just climbed back up. That is going to absolutely destroy Trump's remaining campaign theme. It's pretty hard to campaign on "the great American recovery" when the economy is collapsing for a second time, in other words.

It's hard to see what Trump will have left to shift to, if we do reach this point (which could come very rapidly, if the current slope of the pandemic chart is any indication). What will he have left to fall back on? The public already (by a 2-to-1 margin) thinks Trump bungled his initial response to the crisis. If people start thinking: "Boy, if we had just waited another month, maybe this wouldn't have happened," then they're also going to start blaming Trump for the second wave as well. If all Trump has left in his bag of tricks is to try to crack down on people pulling down Confederate statues, that's simply not going to be seen as relevant to most voters. Which is more worrisome, after all, that your parents or grandparents may die, or whether Robert E. Lee will still tower over the town square?

All Trump has done this week to address the question is to throw one of his patented hand grenades into the media conversation, in a desperate attempt to distract everyone from reality. But no matter how many times he calls it the "Kung Flu" (and no matter how many pundits take this bait and get outraged in response), this doesn't address the second wave's reality one tiny bit. Picking an unnecessary racist fight isn't exactly going to calm voters' worries in any way, to state the obvious.

Trump gambled on reopening the economy too early. His administration issued guidelines for states to use to measure when they could move through the phases of reopening, and then Trump and his team not only flat-out ignored all the guidelines, but they actively pushed governors to ignore them too. Virtually every state that relaxed its restrictions (both red states and blue) did so before meeting the appropriate guideline. Now we're beginning to pay the price of those decisions. Trump is on the brink of losing this gamble, and losing it in a way that makes him look even worse for recklessly gambling with thousands of American lives.

Sooner or later, Trump is going to be forced to face the reality of the second wave. He has not done so yet. He still ridicules the pandemic and speaks of it in the past tense. He pats himself on the back for his perfect response, in fact, and treats it as a crossed-out "to-do list" item. The virus, of course, doesn't care about any of that. It's going to spread whether it helps Donald Trump or hurts him. But once Trump is forced to face the new reality, he's going to have to then come up with a whole new theme for his political campaign, because leading the "great American recovery" just isn't going to work any more.

-- Chris Weigant

 

Follow Chris on Twitter: @ChrisWeigant

 

114 Comments on “The Second Wave's Political Effects”

  1. [1] 
    Elizabeth Miller wrote:

    I think by the time the presidential election rolls around, the US will still be in the midst of the first wave, with a horrific number of peaks.

  2. [2] 
    Elizabeth Miller wrote:

    One of the things that we don't know about this virus is how it will behave over time. Will it behave like the seasonal flu? We just don't know but, based on all I've learned so far during Pandemic I, I don't think it will.

    Waves usually refer to seasonality. And, this novel coronavirus doesn't seem to care whether human behavior tends toward the indoors in the winter months or towards the outside during the summer months - this virus doesn't really seem to care much what season it happens to be spreading in.

  3. [3] 
    Elizabeth Miller wrote:

    I think we just need to resign ourselves to the likelihood that this virus is going to be with us for a very, very long time in one most foul and lengthy wave.

  4. [4] 
    Elizabeth Miller wrote:

    "Who cares what you call it -- just acknowledge that it exists!"

    I do, obviously. :)

  5. [5] 
    Elizabeth Miller wrote:

    So for simplicity's sake, as far as I'm concerned, it is a second wave plain and simple.

    Well, the thing is, once the actual wavy flu season begins, it's going to get very complicated, very fast.

    Though, I understand that there may be a bi-viral test that will actually test for both the seasonal flu and COVID-19.

  6. [6] 
    Elizabeth Miller wrote:

    Okay, I finally disagree with Bill Gates. I just heard him say that this virus seems to be seasonal.

    That is just not true. Or, at the very least, we don't know if that is true. We're only still into the early stages of this pandemic or any epidemic.

  7. [7] 
    Elizabeth Miller wrote:

    How all of this will affect the presidential election is an interesting question.

    More interesting, still, if a significant number in Trump's base become very personally impacted by COVID-19, either becoming quite ill themselves or loved ones becoming ill or worse.

    That sort of growing impact on the base may be one of the biggest factors that will hamper a Trump re-election.

  8. [8] 
    Elizabeth Miller wrote:

    The reason I am so obsessed with what we call this phase of the epidemic in the US is that what it is called will impact the response.

    People will think that this virus will act like the seasonal flu. In other words, a downward trend in transmission of this virus may be quite mistakenly attributed to natural suppression - as in the seasonal flu being suppressed by people spending more time in the outdoors during the summer months with consequently lower levels of transmission.

    People will think that they don't need to practice hand-washing, respiratory etiquette, physical distancing and wearing face coverings when physical distancing is difficult.

    But, we don't know that this virus acts in seasonal waves based on human behavior during certain times of the year. And, so we need to keep vigilant and practice all of the behaviors that will suppress transmission throughout the year.

    Any downward trend of transmission of this virus can't be attributed to seasonal variations. It can be attributed to the severe public health and social/economic measures that brought transmission down by the middle of May and the lack of those measures is what spiked the number of positive cases.

    Bottom line, if we are going to live with this virus and keep it under control, then we need to remain serious about changing our behaviors and following the respiratory pathogen rules to protect both lives and livelihoods.

  9. [9] 
    John M from Ct. wrote:

    For all the thought and experience your posts usually display, I am sometimes dismayed by your reliance on the standard "conventional wisdom" tropes when discussing this president's political style.

    "Trump gambled big, and he might just be about to lose this bet in an enormous way."
    I disagree. "Gambled" implies he made a calculation based on a consideration of the odds. That's not how he works. He goes with his gut, and here his gut told him to re-start the economy no matter what, as that was his re-election selling point in January and so that's what it has to be in June and November.

    "Trump is teetering on inhabiting an alternate universe of facts, which isn't generally a good way to get elected."
    This is absurd, if I may say so. Trump has been inhabiting an alternate universe of facts since the late 1970s, and he'd be the first to tell you it's an excellent way to get elected, because it got him elected. To imply that he is, only now, flirting with embracing unreality is to buy into the constant punditry of treating him like a rational politician, or rational human being. He's not and never has been.

    "Sooner or later, Trump is going to be forced to face the reality of the second wave."
    No, he's not. He's never faced reality before, he's just changed the topic and charged on ahead. That's what he did with the "reality of the first wave", after all (not to mention every other unpleasant reality that has ever threatened to burst his narcissistic bubble, see above).

  10. [10] 
    Don Harris wrote:

    And the Dems are gambling that people will only blame Trump and not notice that the Dems offering false alternatives is what led to Trump and the Dems are just letting Trump self-destruct and hoping to win by default without having to do anything other than the business as usual that put us here.

    No matter which side wins their gamble, they will both be responsible for the people dying and all the rest of us will be losing.

    I am already not voting for Trump. Now give me a reason to vote for Biden other than the business as usual he is not Trump.

    If we are going to live with this virus and keep it under control, then we need to get serious about changing our behaviors and eliminate the virus of big money that has been infecting our political process in a devastating and ever increasing first wave for decades.

    And Biden or any candidate is not worth voting for if they do not change their behavior and run small donor only campaigns instead of offering more of the same business as usual.

    Wake up. Wise up. Rise up.
    Get real.

    The dual virus pandemic has sure become way too real.

  11. [11] 
    ListenWhenYouHear wrote:

    Saw video of the folks waiting in line for Trump’s rally in AZ... no social distancing, no one wearing masks, and giant swamp coolers being used to keep the outdoor lines cool with chilled, Covid-19 carrying droplets of water! Seriously? How in the world can people be so ignorant?

    But then again, these are the same folks who if they do take the virus seriously believe that using Clorox as a mouthwash or enema are good ways to prevent catching it.

    And while viruses might not like the heat, they thrive in moisture! While the summer months are associated with Americans spending more time outdoors, in the southern parts of our country people want to be inside as much as possible because of how humid the air is. Humidity makes for the perfect breeding grounds for this virus. This is only going to continue getting worse.

  12. [12] 
    Elizabeth Miller wrote:

    I really hope that this is a virus whose transmission naturally suppresses in seasonal waves because I think Russ is right and that it's all going to get a lot worse in the US before it starts getting better and having Mother Nature on your side like she is with seasonal flu can't hurt.

  13. [13] 
    Elizabeth Miller wrote:

    Increasing humidity.

    Good point, Russ. Maybe, in a year or so, we'll find out how this virus will behave over time.

  14. [14] 
    nypoet22 wrote:

    In the immortal words of lily Tomlin, things are going to get a lot worse before they get worse.

  15. [15] 
    Elizabeth Miller wrote:

    Don,

    Stop trashing Biden or I will have to throw something at you.

    Duck and cover ...

  16. [16] 
    John From Censornati wrote:

    Keep on rockin' in the free world.

  17. [17] 
    Elizabeth Miller wrote:

    Great song, great Canadian artist … waiting for his latest CD, back to the future, err, ahead to the past ...

  18. [18] 
    Elizabeth Miller wrote:

    How could I forget to do this …

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=klLniWq-edQ

  19. [19] 
    Chris Weigant wrote:

    LizM [2] -

    I seem to remember something from the earliest days... wasn't there news from Australia in like February that the whole "summer slump" thing wasn't going to happen (since, of course, their summer is our winter...)?

    [3] -

    Unitl we get a vaccine, that's for sure...

    [7] -

    Tulsa, for sure, will be closely watched for the next few weeks. Also significant is how many Trump supporters will refuse to use mail-in ballots? That could be a game-changer as well...

    [8] -

    I actually think it's more basic than that: Americans get bored easily. No matter what you call it, after two or three months of precautions, a whole lot of idiots are just "sick of it" and have decided to act like everything's normal no matter what the reality is. With Trump egging them on, they're going to prove that they're invincible.

    Sigh.

    John M. from Ct [9] -

    That's a little harsh. Your second paragraph splits hairs on the definition of "gambling" that I don't think need to be split. Trump has gambled his whole life. It's who he is. He threw the dice on this one, figuring his own redefinition of reality would win the day, but what I am saying is that it might not -- in a big way. And it couldn't have been his re-election strategy in January, because back then it was "the economy's great, better than ever!" which obviously had to change after the crash.

    As for your other comments, well Trump insisting "there's no second wave" while a second wave consumes the country is indeed a new level of denial, at least in my mind. But late today, I see that:

    https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/504648-white-house-coronavirus-task-force-to-hold-first-briefing-in-nearly

    Trump is going to revive the COVID-19 task force briefings. Will he lead them? Stay tuned!

    Don Harris [10] -

    I am already not voting for Trump. Now give me a reason to vote for Biden other than the business as usual he is not Trump.

    Here's a reason: Joe Biden is now the only person who can defeat Trump and avoid 4 more years of this. How's that? Which would be better, in your mind?

    John From Censornati [16] -

    Man, that song has one of the most brutal lyrics ever recorded in rock contained within it:

    I see a woman in the night
    With a baby in her hand
    Under an old street light
    Near a garbage can
    Now she puts the kid away,
    and she's gone to get a hit
    She hates her life,
    and what she's done to it
    There's one more kid
    that will never go to school
    Never get to fall in love,
    never get to be cool.

    Neil Young never minced words, that much is for sure...

    -CW

  20. [20] 
    Michale wrote:

    FPC

    MyVoice.

    You made up some kind of party that doesn't exist in this dimension.

    Which Party would that be?? And what facts do you have to support I 'made it up'??

    Since all your non-facts come from that one first non fact, the rest of your comment is meaningless..

    Come talk to me when I have REAL facts, k snookums??

    :D

  21. [21] 
    Michale wrote:

    I can just see ya'all licking your chops gleefully at the thought of many more dead Americans.

    Russ was practically orgasmic thinking of all the Trump supporters that were going to die..

    But... yunno what?? We're gonna be just fine..

    Even The Democrat/AntiFa/BLM Party is gonna get slapped down and it's failure will be obvious to all patriotic Americans come Nov..

    I mean, ya'all should REALLY be worried about Biden..

    Joe Biden 'greeted' by Trump supporters outside Pennsylvania campaign stop

    Pro-Trump supporters were out in force in Lancaster, holding Trump signs and chanting "Four more years!" and "U-S-A!" as they gathered roughly 100 yards from where Biden would be unveiling his proposals on health care.

    At one point, a large semi-truck, bearing photos of Trump and Vice President Mike Pence, pulled up outside a local recreational center where a pro-Trump crowd was assembled.

    The truck drove in between the Trump supporters and another group nearby that declared their support for the Black Lives Matter movement.

    Biden traveled to the battleground state to meet with families who said they've benefited from the Affordable Care Act, the health care legislation also known as ObamaCare that was passed when Biden was former President Barack Obama's vice president. The campaign stop came on the same day the Trump administration was expected to urge the Supreme Court to invalidate the national health care law.
    https://www.foxnews.com/politics/joe-biden-greeted-by-trump-supporters-outside-pennsylvania-campaign-stop

    It's funny how ya'all predict gloom and doom and President Trump's huge rally, but it's perfectly A-oh-K for Biden to have his rally...

    This is why it's impossible to take anything ya'all seriously... Because you'll say one thing and then contradict it with the next thing depending on which way the political wind is blowing...

    At least ya'all are consistent in that inconsistency... :D

    Easy to predict..

    So, let's take count..

    Who actually HONESTLY believes that Joe YouAin'tBlack Biden is going to win in Nov??

    Anyone??? Anyone at all???

    :D Com'on.. Don't be shy... It's not as if you'll get a huge gloat-fest from me when ya'all are wrong.. Eh?? :D

  22. [22] 
    Michale wrote:

    Biden slammed after wrongly saying ‘we have over 120 million dead from COVID’
    https://www.foxnews.com/politics/biden-wrongly-says-we-have-over-120-million-dead-from-covid

    This is what is know in the parlance of psychiatry as a "Freudian Slip"...

    Joe YouAin'tBlack Biden feverishly wishes for hundreds of Americans dead from Covid, so he can blame President Trump for them..

    Never mind that fact on BIDEN's watch, over 12,000 Americans were killed on Odumbo/Biden's watch and Biden never said boo..

    Biden only cares about American dead if he can get an political boost from it..

    That is Biden will lose in Nov... And everyone here knows it...

  23. [23] 
    Michale wrote:

    Carp!!!!!

    Reposted for clarity...

    Biden slammed after wrongly saying ‘we have over 120 million dead from COVID’
    https://www.foxnews.com/politics/biden-wrongly-says-we-have-over-120-million-dead-from-covid

    This is what is know in the parlance of psychiatry as a "Freudian Slip"...

    Joe YouAin'tBlack Biden feverishly wishes for hundreds of Americans dead from Covid, so he can blame President Trump for them..

    Never mind that fact on BIDEN's watch, over 12,000 Americans were killed on Odumbo/Biden's watch and Biden never said boo..

    Biden only cares about American dead if he can get an political boost from it..

    That is Biden will lose in Nov... And everyone here knows it...

  24. [24] 
    Don Harris wrote:

    Liz-
    I will stop trashing Biden when he earns it by running a small donor only campaign.

    He can do it- so why doesn't he do it?

    Until then trashing is all he deserves.

  25. [25] 
    Michale wrote:

    Riddle me this....

    Chicago activist calls on Black Lives Matter to help stem city's gun violence: 'We are losing too many kids'
    https://www.foxnews.com/media/chicago-black-lives-matter-gun-violence-cities

    If black American lives matter to The Democrat/AntiFa/BlackLivesMatter Party, why is it that the biggest cause of death amongst black Americans are other black Americans??

    Why is it that 96% of black American deaths in any given year are caused by other Black Americans??

    And, since only .08% of deaths of black Americans in any given year come from Law Enforcement (virtually all justified) it seems to any LOGICAL or RATIONAL person that the efforts of Black Lives Matter should be put towards bring down the number of black American deaths from other black Americans..

    I mean, if the goal is to really save black American lives and black American lives DO matter to Black Lives Matter members, then the ONLY logical course of action is to address the black on black violence and death....

    Doesn't that make the most sense???

    So, this only leaves us with ONE logical conclusion..

    Black American lives DON'T really matter to Black Lives Matter.. The goal is not to save black lives.. The goal is to abolish police and obtain political power..

    THAT is the goal of The Democrat/AntiFa/BlackLives Matter Party...

    If anyone sees a flaw in the logical, speak up.. Because as ya'all established in Charlottesville, SILENCE GIVES ASSENT...

    I'll be here all day if anyone wants to speak up..

    Betting 20,000 quatloos that no one will.. :D

    Easy Quatloos :D

  26. [26] 
    Michale wrote:

    I will stop trashing Biden when he earns it by running a small donor only campaign.

    And *I* will stop trashing Biden when he earns it.. And quits with the looney tunes/dementia personality...

    You have my word.. :D

  27. [27] 
    Don Harris wrote:

    CW-
    What? He is the only one that can beat Trump and avoid four more years of this IS the business as usual he is not Trump.

    Which would be better? Neither.

    Not as bad is not better.

    Things would get worse faster under four more years of Trump, but things would just get worse slower with Biden. Neither will make things better.

    The only way to make things better and avoid four more years of this good cop/bad cop deception by the Dems and Republicans is to demand that candidates be better and not keep settling for not as bad out of fear.

  28. [28] 
    Michale wrote:

    CW,

    Here's a reason: Joe Biden is now the only person who can defeat Trump and avoid 4 more years of this. How's that? Which would be better, in your mind?

    It's funny.. You say Joe Biden, but I hear Hillary Clinton.. :D

    Personally, I think you have it backwards..

    Like Hillary, Biden is the only candidate who CAN'T win against President Trump..

    Your Democrat/AntiFa/BlackLives Matter Party sure knows how to pick 'em...

    They pick the ONLY Democrat on the face of the planet who CAN'T beat President Trump...

    TWICE... ;D

  29. [29] 
    Michale wrote:

    Here's what so funny about ya'all's Covid THE SKY IS FALLING HYSTERIA!!

    There are more cases, this is true..

    But the **ONLY** stat that is important is how many people are DYING from it..

    And THAT stat is in sharp decline..

    So ya'all can satisfy ya'all politically motivated fear mongering itch..

    But the only fact that matters, the number of actual deaths, is emphasizing how much ya'all are playing politics with Covid..

    What ya expect??? This "pandemic" has ove a 99% survival rate...

    Ya'all are just dialing up the fear-mongering to 11 in an attempt to attack President Trump.. And yet, President Trump is still standing..

    Ya'all simply CAN'T bring him down...

    No matter HOW hard ya'all try, President Trump beats ya'all at EVERY turn..

    Amazing how that is, eh?? :D

  30. [30] 
    Don Harris wrote:

    Keep on rocking in the free world is also one of my favorite parodies.

    "There's a condom on the street
    and it's filled with goo
    someone took it off their meat
    now it's stuck upon my shoe
    There's a warning sign
    and somebody said
    don't touch it with your hand
    or you could end up dead
    don't look like latex
    think it's made of lamb
    so I try to remove it
    any way I can
    Icky condom from a street girl...."

  31. [31] 
    Michale wrote:

    JL,

    In the immortal words of lily Tomlin, things are going to get a lot worse before they get worse.

    Agreed.. Things ARE going to get a lot worse.. For The Democrat/AntiFa/BLM Party...

    But for America and Americans?

    Things are getting much MUCH better..

    Mainly because the American people are finally seeing the true face of the Democrat/AntiFa/BLM Party...

    In Seattle, in Tampa Bay, in Minneapolis...

    The REAL Party is being exposed for the hateful, bigoted and criminal Party it is..

    And Americans are noticing...

    If you see any flaw in my facts.. You know what to do.. :D

  32. [32] 
    Don Harris wrote:

    Come to think of it, Icky condoms are not as bad as Icky Woods. So the Dems and Biden are Icky condoms.

    And I don't want to spend the next four years dealing with an icky condom teeming with the big money virus that will kill me stuck on my shoe.

  33. [33] 
    TheStig wrote:

    Trump wagered the lives of citizens to save the economy and his chance at a 2nd term. It looks like he is going to lose his bet. A surprising number of the suckers being wagered were openly in favor of the bet. If you are one of them, and are out of work - and/or sick - please, no whining. You trusted your gut when you should of, could have, used your head...for something other than a MAGA cap hat rack.

  34. [34] 
    Michale wrote:

    Trump wagered the lives of citizens to save the economy and his chance at a 2nd term.

    Except of course, the FACT that the number of dead is actually going down, not up..

    Other than that, yer totally wrong.. :D

    It looks like he is going to lose his bet.

    Facts to support?? None?? Figures.. I have given you PLENTY of facts to indicate Joe Biden can't win..

    But I understand how you simply cannot accept the reality of the here and now..

    What I don't get is you have already been burned once..

    Why do you want to heap so much more humiliation on yerself?? :D

    I'll ask you that question on 4 Nov 2020.. We'll see what you have to say then...

    I am sure you are going to want to stick around and take yer medicine like a big boy, right?? :D

  35. [35] 
    Michale wrote:

    Frederick Douglass Begs to Differ

    As I noted in today’s Morning Jolt — which I’m writing this week while the inestimable Jim Geraghty is on vacation — the latest “anti-racist” campaign targeting statues for forcible erasure is being directed at the Emancipation Memorial, also known as the Freedmen’s Memorial.

    This effort, announced publicly by a mob that intends to tear down the monument tomorrow evening, is also being backed by D.C.’s non-voting congresswoman, Eleanor Holmes Norton, who has raised several ill-founded objections to the memorial’s continued presence in Lincoln Park on Capitol Hill.

    The memorial, Holmes Norton avers, is no longer a fitting monument for our times because it failed to “take into account the views of African Americans.” The memorial, it is worth noting, was underwritten by freed slaves; this is, apparently, insufficient evidence that African-American perspectives were consulted in its construction.

    Holmes Norton went on to invoke Frederick Douglass himself as a supporter of her cause, insisting that the abolitionist had “in his keynote address at the unveiling of this statue . . . expressed his displeasure with the statue.” The National Parks Service website asserts, too, that Douglass believed the statue perpetuated negative stereotypes, although it offers no citation to clarify what this claim refers to.

    The congresswoman appears either to have misread or entirely failed to read the keynote oration that Douglass delivered at the unveiling of the memorial, which was dedicated on the eleventh anniversary of Lincoln’s assassination. Or, perhaps, Holmes Norton simply prefers to ignore the substance and complexity of Douglass’s message in favor of twisting his meaning to suit her purposes.
    https://tinyurl.com/yb3g4veh

    Get that?? The Democrat/AntiFa/BlackLivesMatter Party wants to tear down a monument that was paid for and put into place by freed slaves.. Black Americans..

    Is there ANYONE that has any doubt of the agenda of The Democrat/AntiFa/BlackLivesMatter Party???

    Simply destroy everything that makes this country decent and a leader of the free world...

    :eyeroll:

  36. [36] 
    Don Harris wrote:

    The Icky Shuffle is getting old- but it is a marvelous night for a moondance.

    So let's shoot for the moon. As Biden says there is nothing we can't do if we do it together so let's make Biden EARN our votes as he says he must do by running a small donor only campaign.

  37. [37] 
    Michale wrote:

    "Let it be told in every part of the Republic; let men of all parties and opinions hear it; let those who despise us, not less than those who respect us, know that now and here, in the spirit of liberty, loyalty, and gratitude, let it be known everywhere, and by everybody who takes an interest in human progress and in the amelioration of the condition of mankind, that . . . we, the colored people, newly emancipated and rejoicing in our blood-bought freedom, near the close of the first century in the life of this Republic, have now and here unveiled, set apart, and dedicated a monument of enduring granite and bronze, in every line, feature, and figure of which the men of this generation may read, and those of after-coming generations may read, something of the exalted character and great works of Abraham Lincoln, the first martyr President of the United States. . . .

    Fellow-citizens, ours is no new-born zeal and devotion — merely a thing of this moment. The name of Abraham Lincoln was near and dear to our hearts in the darkest and most perilous hours of the Republic. We were no more ashamed of him when shrouded in clouds of darkness, of doubt, and defeat than when we saw him crowned with victory, honor, and glory. Our faith in him was often taxed and strained to the uttermost, but it never failed. . . . Despite the mist and haze that surrounded him; despite the tumult, the hurry, and confusion of the hour, we were able to take a comprehensive view of Abraham Lincoln, and to make reasonable allowance for the circumstances of his position. We saw him, measured him, and estimated him; not by stray utterances to injudicious and tedious delegations, who often tried his patience; not by isolated facts torn from their connection; not by any partial and imperfect glimpses, caught at inopportune moments; but by a broad survey, in the light of the stern logic of great events, and in view of that divinity which shapes our ends, rough hew them how we will, we came to the conclusion that the hour and the man of our redemption had somehow met in the person of Abraham Lincoln.

    When now it shall be said that the colored man is soulless, that he has no appreciation of benefits or benefactors; when the foul reproach of ingratitude is hurled at us, and it is attempted to scourge us beyond the range of human brotherhood, we may calmly point to the monument we have this day erected to the memory of Abraham Lincoln.”
    -Frederick Douglass

    Do ya'all see why I say that The Democrat/AntiFa/BlackLivesMatter Party has no interest in anything that makes America great and exceptional...

    Again, one has to wonder exactly why everyone else here (sans the few who get it) thinks that The Democrat/AntiFa/BlackLivesMatter Party can prevail in Nov...

    The Party hates everything about America and is not afraid to show it...

    The FACTS are clear...

  38. [38] 
    nypoet22 wrote:

    But for America and Americans?

    Things are getting much MUCH better..

    even if that were the case for the group as a whole - a premise i do not accept because you haven't proved it - things are most definitely not getting better for the 126,798 americans (as of this morning) who are now dead of covid-19, not to mention those who survived but now have permanent health complications.

    pandemics generally don't make things better, they just continue to kill people. therefore, things will indeed continue to get worse before they get worse.

    QED

    JL

  39. [39] 
    TheStig wrote:

    I personally know quite a few people that were gung ho for opening up the economy and The Hell with the medical consequences. They called themselves "economic soldiers." Ok, fair enough, but they were poorly led, poorly paid and ill equipped. Another name for such a soldier is "cannon fodder."

  40. [40] 
    Michale wrote:

    1 in 5 Ballots Rejected as Fraud Is Charged in N.J. Mail-In Election

    Following accusations of widespread fraud, voter intimidation, and ballot theft in the May 12 municipal elections in Paterson, N.J., state Attorney General Gurbir S. Grewal (pictured) announced Thursday he is charging four men with voter fraud – including the vice president of the City Council and a candidate for that body.

    With races still undecided, control of the council hangs in the balance. Paterson is New Jersey’s third largest city and the election will decide the fate of a municipal budget in excess of $300 million, in addition to hundreds of millions more in education spending and state aid.

    In the City Council election, 16,747 vote-by-mail ballots were received, but only 13,557 votes were counted. More than 3,190 votes, 19% of the total ballots cast, were disqualified by the board of elections. Due to the pandemic, Paterson’s election was done through vote-by-mail. Community organizations, such as the city’s NAACP chapter, are calling for the entire election to be invalidated.
    https://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2020/06/26/1_in_5_ballots_rejected_as_fraud_is_charged_in_nj_mail-in_election_143551.html

    Oh yes... LET'S have a "mail in" election....

    What could POSSIBLY go wrong??? :eyeroll:

    Let's face reality here people.. If you can..

    The ONLY reason why The Democrat/AntiFa/BlackLivesMatter Party wants a mail in ballot election is because it will make it easier for the Dumbocrats to cheat...

    Guess what???

    AIN'T gonna happen.. Election Day will be a day like all other election days.. The Democrat/AntiFa/BlackLivesMatter Party will have to get off their lazy asses and go vote.. :D

    No cheating by The Democrat/AntiFa/BlackLivesMatter Party will be allowed...

  41. [41] 
    Elizabeth Miller wrote:

    Yeah, well, wait until the third and fourth waves hit, all before the end of the year!

    If you can't beat 'em, join 'em ...

  42. [42] 
    Michale wrote:

    I personally know quite a few people that were gung ho for opening up the economy and The Hell with the medical consequences. They called themselves "economic soldiers." Ok, fair enough, but they were poorly led, poorly paid and ill equipped. Another name for such a soldier is "cannon fodder."

    Facts to support???

    None???

    Of course.. :eyeroll:

  43. [43] 
    Michale wrote:

    Yeah, well, wait until the third and fourth waves hit, all before the end of the year!

    If you can't beat 'em, join 'em ...

    Wow.. I can just see yer excitement brimming over.. :^/

    You people are actually HOPING for this, ain'tcha...

  44. [44] 
    nypoet22 wrote:

    Except of course, the FACT that the number of dead is actually going down, not up..

    that's just not physically possible. even if the death RATE from new infections were slowing down (i haven't seen evidence of that either, but good news would be welcome if you have it), the number of people who have already died doesn't go backward.

    JL

  45. [45] 
    Michale wrote:

    a premise i do not accept because you haven't proved it -

    Au contraire..

    Coronavirus deaths lag behind surging infections but may catch up soon
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/coronavirus-deaths-lag-behind-surging-infections-but-may-catch-up-soon/2020/06/24/22263b50-b620-11ea-a510-55bf26485c93_story.html

    Proven..

    But I know you still won't accept it because it goes against the ideological hope..

    permanent health complications.

    pandemics generally don't make things better, they just continue to kill people. therefore, things will indeed continue to get worse before they get worse.

    As I have proven, you are wrong..

    At this point in time, things are actually getting better..

    At least for everyone NOT hoping for dead Americans, that is..

  46. [46] 
    Michale wrote:

    that's just not physically possible. even if the death RATE from new infections were slowing down (i haven't seen evidence of that either, but good news would be welcome if you have it), the number of people who have already died doesn't go backward.

    Yer right.. I should have said the death rate is going down..

    Thank you for that correction....

  47. [47] 
    Bleyd wrote:

    Don Harris [10]
    Why vote for Biden? He's a competent political leader with decades of experience. He has earned the respect of his domestic colleagues and foreign leaders alike through that public service. That respect, combined with his ethical and moral character, would allow him to immediately set to restoring America's place as a global leader and cleaning up much of the new corruption that the Trump administration has brought into the federal government.

    Biden largely represents stability, and as much as you, and many of us, would like to see more progressive changes, we have more immediate issues to fix first, issues that Biden is well equipped to deal with.

    When a person is having a heart attack, you don't immediately send them out to start exercising, you stabilize them and get their heart beating steadily again, clean out any blockages, and fix whatever damage you can fix. Trump has been a rather nasty heart attack for America, so to save the patient, we need a competent, experienced, stabilizing force like Biden to get us through the current emergency. Then, once we're out of the woods, we need to start focusing on eating better and exercising more, implementing the more progressive reforms, including your pet project of campaign finance reform, to help prevent future heart attacks.

  48. [48] 
    Michale wrote:

    And I notice something missing from ya'all's diatribes...

    You castigate and demonize President Trump and his supporters for their rallies vis a vis the covid pandemic..

    And yet ya'all give tacit approval (by your silence) of the riots and the protests and the looting and the murders and the lawlessness..

    Funny how one is condemn-able, but the other, with so much more violence and death and destruction is completely ignored..

    Ya'all condemn President Trump and his supporters for their crowds but cheer on The Democrat/AntiFa/BlackLivesMater for their crowds..

    Can any of you explain this discrepancy??? This hypocrisy???

    Anyone??? Anyone?? Beuhler???

  49. [49] 
    Michale wrote:

    Bleyd,

    Why vote for Biden? He's a competent political leader with decades of experience.

    Except the FACTS prove otherwise..

    President Trump did more for black Americans in 2 years, than Biden did in 47 years..

    This is fact..

    There is also Bidens racist comments and such that ALSO prove you wrong..

    That respect, combined with his ethical and moral character,

    Would that "moral character" also include his rape of Tara Reade???

    And remember, it was Joe YouAintBlack Biden who said "ALL WOMEN ARE TO BE BELIEVED"

    Doesn't sound like much morality, although Biden IS a character, I'll give ya that.. :D

    Biden largely represents stability, and as much as you, and many of us, would like to see more progressive changes, we have more immediate issues to fix first, issues that Biden is well equipped to deal with.

    Assumes facts not in evidence..

    Trump has been a rather nasty heart attack for America, so to save the patient, we need a competent, experienced, stabilizing force like Biden to get us through the current emergency.

    Let's face reality, Bleyd.. Lowest unemployment in decades.. Lowest unemployment for black Americans EVER... Lowest unemployment for hispanic Amreicans EVER... An economy that was and will be again unstoppable..

    The reality is that President Trump has only been a heart attack for The Democrat/Antifa/BlackLivesMatter Party..

    As is evidenced by the FACT that 40% of black Americans support President Trump..

    Joe McSniffy Biden can't afford to lose that much black American support..

    we need to start focusing on eating better and exercising more, implementing the more progressive reforms, including your pet project of campaign finance reform, to help prevent future heart attacks.

    Too bad President Trump is going to wipe the floor with Biden, just like he did with Hillary...

    Too bad for The Democrat/AntiFa/BlackLivesMatter Party, I mean..

    You going to be around on election day?? I would hate you to miss the gloating ya'all will receive.. :D

  50. [50] 
    Michale wrote:

    GRR

    Reposted for clarity...

    Bleyd,

    Why vote for Biden? He's a competent political leader with decades of experience.

    Except the FACTS prove otherwise..

    President Trump did more for black Americans in 2 years, than Biden did in 47 years..

    This is fact..

    There is also Bidens racist comments and such that ALSO prove you wrong..

    That respect, combined with his ethical and moral character,

    Would that "moral character" also include his rape of Tara Reade???

    And remember, it was Joe YouAintBlack Biden who said "ALL WOMEN ARE TO BE BELIEVED"

    Doesn't sound like much morality, although Biden IS a character, I'll give ya that.. :D

    Biden largely represents stability, and as much as you, and many of us, would like to see more progressive changes, we have more immediate issues to fix first, issues that Biden is well equipped to deal with.

    Assumes facts not in evidence..

    Trump has been a rather nasty heart attack for America, so to save the patient, we need a competent, experienced, stabilizing force like Biden to get us through the current emergency.

    Let's face reality, Bleyd.. Lowest unemployment in decades.. Lowest unemployment for black Americans EVER... Lowest unemployment for hispanic Amreicans EVER... An economy that was and will be again unstoppable..

    The reality is that President Trump has only been a heart attack for The Democrat/Antifa/BlackLivesMatter Party..

    As is evidenced by the FACT that 40% of black Americans support President Trump..

    Joe McSniffy Biden can't afford to lose that much black American support..

    we need to start focusing on eating better and exercising more, implementing the more progressive reforms, including your pet project of campaign finance reform, to help prevent future heart attacks.

    Too bad President Trump is going to wipe the floor with Biden, just like he did with Hillary...

    Too bad for The Democrat/AntiFa/BlackLivesMatter Party, I mean..

    You going to be around on election day?? I would hate you to miss the gloating ya'all will receive.. :D

  51. [51] 
    Michale wrote:

    But getting back to The Democrat/AntiFa/BlackLivesMatter Party's attempts to cheat by forcing mail in voting..

    Mail-in ballots have long been acknowledged by voting experts to be more susceptible to fraud and irregularities than in-person voting. This has raised concerns from President Trump and other Republicans about the integrity of national elections in November, which are expected to include a dramatic increase in mail-in ballots. If Paterson is any guide, it ought to concern Democrats as well.

    Over 800 ballots in Paterson were invalidated for appearing in mailboxes improperly bundled together – including a one mailbox where hundreds of ballots were in a single packet. The bundles were turned over to law enforcement to investigate potential criminal activity related to the collection of the ballots.

    The board of elections disqualified another 2,300 ballots after concluding that the signatures on them did not match the signatures on voter records.

    Reporting by NBC further uncovered citizens of Paterson who are listed as having voted, but who told the news outlet they never received a ballot and did not vote. One woman, Ramona Javier, after being shown the list of people on her block who allegedly voted, told the outlet she knew of eight family members and neighbors who were wrongly listed. “We did not receive vote-by-mail ballots and thus we did not vote,” she said. “This is corruption. This is fraud.”

    There were multiple reports that large numbers of mail-in ballots were left on the lobby floors of apartment buildings and not delivered to residents’ individual mailboxes, further casting doubt on the integrity of the election.

    Two of the election results in Paterson were particularly close. Initially, challenger Shahin Khalique defeated incumbent Mohammed Akhtaruzzaman by 1,729 votes to 1,721. After a second recount on June 19, that race is now tied 1,730-1,730. In that race, a video posted to Snapchat has surfaced that appears to show a man named Abu Razyen unlawfully handling a large stack of ballots he indicates are votes for Khalique. Khalique’s brother, Shelim, and Razyen have been charged by the state attorney general for crimes including fraud in casting mail-in votes, tampering, and unauthorized possession of ballots.

    It's easy to see why TheDemocrat/AntiFa/BlackLivesMatter Party supports Mail In Voting..

    The opportunities to cheat are prevalent and would be overwhelming in a nation wide election...

  52. [52] 
    Michale wrote:

    At the same time, dozens of lawsuits have been filed across the country contesting state requirements used to certify mail-in ballots. “Among the main targets are witness and signature requirements for absentee ballots -- such as signing the envelope, or getting a witness or notary to sign it, or making sure the voter's signature is legible,” notes an NPR report earlier this month.

    Those lawsuits seeking to expand vote-by-mail include one brought in Nevada earlier year, which aims to do away with signature verification on mail-in ballots altogether – even though ballot signatures not matching voter records was the reason Paterson disqualified over 2,300 ballots.

    Meanwhile, the president continues to be an outspoken opponent of voting by mail. He tweeted on June 22, “RIGGED 2020 ELECTION: MILLIONS OF MAIL-IN BALLOTS WILL BE PRINTED BY FOREIGN COUNTRIES, AND OTHERS. IT WILL BE THE SCANDAL OF OUR TIMES!” This and other Trump claims about vote-by-mail problems are frequently contested by the press.

    Anyone who supports Vote By Mail is looking to cheat or hoping it helps their Party cheat..

    Period..

  53. [53] 
    Michale wrote:

    Opinion: Taking time to tell a fuller story

    One of the rules of thumb for journalists has been to print what you know once you find out something, especially as you work to unravel a complicated story. And for the most part that works out in our pursuit of the first draft of history.

    But last week, we broke that rule. I believe it was the right thing to do. We had an impassioned newsroom discussion about it. We’ve faced criticism for the decision, and I thought you’d want to know what we did and why.The aftermath of the shooting of Rayshard Brooks by an Atlanta Police officer convulsed the city. The incident at a south Atlanta Wendy’s restaurant resulted in the police chief stepping down. Already boiling racial tensions grew. Protests erupted. The two officers have been charged, the shooter with felony murder.District Attorney Paul Howard faces criticism for his quick decision about the charges while he’s in a battle to be re-elected. Morale in the police department suffers.Atlanta finds itself an epicenter in the call to reform police departments across the country.READ: Rayshard Brooks’ final 41 minutesAs metro Atlantans we can’t agree on how we should feel about all of this, let alone what we should do about it.An e-mail I received last week: “Yesterday I was provided the following links to publicly available records that provide a sketch of Mr. Brooks’ criminal history dating back to 2010. Most seriously, previous charges include obstruction of an officer, battery, false imprisonment, and cruelty to children, and indicated that Mr. Brooks was on parole for some of these offenses at the time of his death.”

    “Thus far, I have read nothing in the AJC about Mr. Brooks’ background, and how it may have shaped the encounter … . Having a prior record and being on probation would probably go a long way towards explaining why Mr. Brooks reacted the way he did when the officers attempted to arrest and handcuff him.”Others felt the same way.Another note I received: “The AJC is failing to report the truth about this violent convicted felon who brutally attacked two police officers.”We must all decide how to see Brooks.As a murder victim, as prosecutors seek to prove?Or does his history explain why he fought to avoid arrest and a return to jail?Or is he “a criminal whose actions caused his death,” as another e-mailer wrote?We wrestled with these questions, and as some media outlets began to report some easily available information about Brooks’ criminal record, we didn’t. I believe we were right to do more reporting, despite the inevitable criticism and the decision to forgo our usual practice of publishing what we have as soon as we can.
    https://www.ajc.com/news/opinion/opinion-taking-time-tell-fuller-story/HC9QQyt9Z2qFUCxN5ShGxL/

    It's hard not to be jaundiced and cynical by this example of "careful" reporting..

    Had Brooks been an altar boy at Church and was studying to be a priest, one has to wonder if this media outlet would have done as much soul searching...

    But Brooks wasn't an altar boy.. He was a scumbag whose crimes include cruelty to children, kidnapping and battery on a police officer...

    Society is better off without this scumbag as part of it..

    Anyone who questions the Brooks shooting is judging Brooks by the color of his skin..

    NOT by his character or actions..

    It's really THAT simple...

  54. [54] 
    Don Harris wrote:

    Bleyd-
    That's not how I see Biden.

    I see Biden as a competent politician that is corrupted by big money so the competence is competence at working for the big money interests. This has earned the respect of other politicians corrupted by big money.

    Taking big money instead of running a small donor only campaign is not the action of someone with ethical and moral character.

    Cleaning up some/most of the new corruption from Trump will not matter if/when it is replaced by the same old corruption of the big money Dems and will only lead to more new corruption from both parties.

    Biden represents the illusion of stability. The most pressing issue we have to deal with is big money corrupting our political process. It is the reason both parties have failed to respond properly to the pandemic.

    When a person has a heart attack you don't stabilize them by feeding them deep fried foods and a quart of Jack Daniels. That will not get them out of the Icky woods.

    This is not the first heart attack.

    As for cleaning out the blockages- big money corrupting our political process is the blockage and the cause of the blockage. Someone advocating replacing the current blockage with a similar blockage as they have done previously is not competent.

    A better analogy is that electing Biden is like stopping the bleeding from a compound fracture and sending the patient home instead of to the hospital for further treatment.

  55. [55] 
    Michale wrote:

    Riots give Donald Trump a chance to rally his supporters and go after racism

    Joe Biden and his party are too weak to stand up for American culture. That's why President Trump has an opening.
    https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2020/06/25/george-floyd-protests-biden-trump-riots-column/3245351001/

    The Democrat/AntiFa/BlackLivesMatter Party better get it's affairs in order.. :D

    It's pretty much going to cease to exist soon.. :D

  56. [56] 
    Michale wrote:

    But Bleyd..

    If you are so sure of your claim that Biden will prevail, why not make a wager on it??

    Help out Weigantia..???

    :D My guess is yer NOT so sure.. You don't want to risk it..

    I can understand that considering my track record and ya'all's... :D

  57. [57] 
    Michale wrote:

    Videos of rioters pulling down statues and occupying American cities are bewildering. Why are these people allowed to do this?

    We already know the answer: politics. Urban America is largely run by liberals who have no idea how to stop the anarchists. A shocking amount of lawlessness is taking place where weak politicians are too spineless to stop it.

    The justification for this anarchy is that protesters are simply demanding an end to police brutality and systemic racism, proper demands for any society. The mob initially said it would come for the Confederate monuments sprinkled across the country (I’m no fan of Confederate monuments myself), but their targets have now become distinctly anti-American as they seek to topple statues that represent the best of America. Here are a few of the statues or monuments they have attacked and vandalized:

    Abraham Lincoln, Ulysses S. Grant and a black civil war regiment (freed the slaves, defeated the Confederacy), Winston Churchill and the World War II Memorial (saved the world from the Nazis), Matthias Baldwin and John Greenleaf Whittier (abolitionists).

    And that’s not to mention attacks and vandalism on George Washington, Francis Scott Key and other pillars of American history.

    This vandalism isn’t an attack on racism, but rather on America itself. And it is being done by people who believe America and the ideals on which it is built are fundamentally evil and should be destroyed.

    This is ya'all's Democrat/AntiFa/BlackLivesMatter Party..

    And ya'all SERIOUSLY think these actions are going to get Americans to vote ya'all's way???

    On what PLANET would that happen???

    You know what kind of people they are?? People who destroy the culture of a particular country??

    The kind of people who do that are the people who HATE the given country...

    Now, one of ya'all explain to me how expressing that hate against our American culture is going to appeal to patriotic Americans..

    Go ahead.. Someone explain it..

  58. [58] 
    Michale wrote:

    Put the shoe on the other foot: Imagine a group of red MAGA hat wearers vandalizing public property. Imagine they took over six blocks of an American city (as has happened in Seattle), including a police precinct, refusing to allow cops to investigate a killing inside their “autonomous zone?”

    Every liberal talking head would be apoplectic, demanding a complete and total shutdown of all Trump supporters until we can figure out what the hell is going on here, to borrow a phrase.

    Ya'all would be hysterically screaming to the high heavens if this were Trump supporters doing this..

    But, because it's America Hating bigots and racists and anarchists, none of ya'all say a SINGLE word against it..

    I find that fascinating what ya'all will accept in the name of Party slavery and loyalty..

    Hell, even Joe Biden raping someone doesn't even garner a condemnation...

    How deep the hate of America and President must go that The Democrat/AntiFa/BlackLivesMatter Party literally gets away with murder and no one here says a word against...

    It simply boggles the mind...

  59. [59] 
    Michale wrote:

    Instead, today’s rioters, vandals and criminal continue night after night, probing the boundaries of American culture and Western civilization, wondering what else their mob can destroy with impunity, as the American left looks the other way.

    The rampant mayhem is but the latest American upheaval, coming on the heels of the COVID-19 lockdowns and subsequent disruption to our economy. There’s a craving for leadership that can return some semblance of normalcy to our lives, where people can go to work and take their kids to school without driving past burning buildings or having a brick tossed through their windshield.

    This presidential election may turn on which candidate can deliver light at the end of this long, strange and dark tunnel. Who can Make America Normal Again?

    Grant fought for racial justice: Vandals attacking monument need fuller view of history

    Flowing underneath this question is a powerful undercurrent — the idea that there are different rules for different people. Trump exploited this theme successfully in 2016, arguing that political elites get away with stuff that would get anyone else punished.

    It seems to me that today’s demonstrations are based on a similar imbalance — one set of rules for white people, and a different set for black people when it comes to interactions with the police, which is, in many circumstances, objectively true. Trump should appeal to the peaceful protesters the way he did to the electorate at large in 2016: No matter anyone’s station in life, we should all be treated equally under the law.

    Once again, everyone here is judging black scumbags by the color of their skin and not their actions..

    In a normal world, Floyd's demise would be a welcome for a society that is based on the rule of law and the respect for rights of others...

    But in this topsy turvy Democrat/AntiFa/BlackLivesMatter world where police are the enemy and scumbags are martyred for the depravity of their crimes, killing and burning and destroying and raping are virtues to be not only condoned but encouraged by the American Left...

    And what really makes me laugh is that ya'all actually believe that THIS is the way to go about winning elections.. :D

    That just cracks me up...

  60. [60] 
    Michale wrote:

    Most Americans believe in ending racism and police brutality, they just don’t believe rioting and anarchy are ways to achieve that goal. A righteous cause has been hijacked by lawless anti-American elements, and people can see it with their own eyes.

    The miracle of our country is that when we want to change things, we do it with ballots. This generation cannot be the first to succumb to mob rule. Most Americans are fundamentally good and believe in our democracy, but the rioters destroying our cities clearly aren’t and don’t.

    Trump is undoubtedly down in his campaign right now. But there are more than four months left before Election Day, a long time for left-wing anarchists to continue to dominate the landscape, for America’s feckless, liberal politicians to encourage them, and for Trump to cut through the politically correct clutter and rally those who find the restoration of order and the ending of police brutality and racism to be wholly compatible.

    Polls are utterly useless and it's apparent that those who quote polls simply cherry pick the polls that say what they want to hear...

    2016 destroyed ANY shred of credibility polls had...

    The *ONLY* poll that's going to matter is the poll on 3 Nov 2020...

    And THAT poll's outcome is clear...

    Given the violence and the lawlessness and the America-Hate coming from The Democrat/AntiFa/BlackLivesMatter Party, there is simply no way that whoever is the Dims candidate can prevail...

    I hope ya'all are mentally prepared for what's about to happen... :D

  61. [61] 
    Michale wrote:

    Now let's visit the latest from Jussie Smollet's big brother... :D

    Someone needs to pay for the NASCAR noose fiasco.

    It was never true that a “noose” was deliberately placed, as a racist threat, in the Alabama garage stall of Bubba Wallace, the only black full-time driver on the NASCAR circuit.

    “There was no hate crime” ­NASCAR boss Steve Phelps admitted Tuesday after 48 hours of ­incendiary hysteria.

    No kidding.

    Phelps didn’t even have the grace to act embarrassed about sending a gullible media off on a “wild noose chase” during a time of heightened racial tension.

    No fewer than 15 FBI agents were summoned to investigate the false alarm.

    The “noose,” they quickly discovered, was just a small loop tied to the bottom of a rope on a garage door at the Talladega Superspeedway, presumably to make it easier to raise and lower the door, and it had been there since at least last October.
    https://nypost.com/2020/06/24/someone-needs-to-own-up-to-nascars-noose-fiasco-devine/

    One thing is certain.. If The Democrat/AntiFa/BlackLivesMatter Party can't find an actual racist event....

    They'll invent one out of thin air.... :eyeroll:

  62. [62] 
    Michale wrote:

    “Although the noose is now known to have been in garage number 4 in 2019, nobody could have known Mr. Wallace would be assigned to garage number 4 last week,” the FBI said in a statement Tuesday.

    NASCAR also admitted Tuesday that the so-called “noose” was just a “garage door pull rope fashioned like a noose.”

    Images and video from 2017 and 2019, published on news websites and social media, show at least two garages side by side at Talladega with similar loops in their pull ropes. The loops are no bigger than would fit a wrist and appear to be formed by a simple slipknot.

    So there we have it. Much ado about nothing.

    Phelps seems to think that’s the end of it. He thought the worst of the people who are the heart and soul of his organization and then went out and incited hatred against them. He leaped to malicious conclusions about his fellow citizens, against all prudence and common sense, and now he thinks all is forgiven.

    Yep.. Not a single even HINT of racism.. Not an IOTA of a fact of racism..

    But of course, The Democrat/AntiFa/BlackLivesMatter Party can't exist, can't pontificate if there is no racism..

    Since there is no racism, they make it up...

    Thereby proving that the Party itself, is racist...

    Shocker, eh? :eyeroll:

  63. [63] 
    Michale wrote:

    Amid Lawlessness, Republicans Are Answering Leadership Call
    https://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2020/06/25/amid_lawlessness_republicans_are_answering_leadership_call__143531.html

    And THIS is why The Democrat/AntiFa/BlackLivesMatter Party will lose and lose big in Nov..

    The GOP will retain the White House and retain the Senate and will take the House...

    Because NO real American would EVER vote for The Democrat/AntiFa/BlackLivesMatter Party...

    And, as Russ hisself stated, The Democrat/AntiFa/BlackLivesMatter Party is united.... United around things that real and patriotic Americans cannot stomach...

  64. [64] 
    Michale wrote:

    We can probably all agree that “this is the most important election of our lifetime” is an exceedingly overused phrase in American politics. We can also probably all agree that this year, no matter which political party you belong to, it actually feels true.

    Voters in November will choose a president, which party controls Congress, governors, and thousands of state legislators, who in a majority of states will be largely responsible for redrawing the federal and state district maps that will govern voting for the next decade.

    This year is a battle for the soul of our nation. Everything is on the line – and while we don’t yet know how history will look back on the turbulent start to 2020, we do know that still-developing protests in the wake of George Floyd’s killing and several appalling police shootings of African Americans have transformed our upcoming elections from a routine decision between Republicans and Democrats into what Franklin Roosevelt and Ronald Reagan both described as “a time for choosing.” This year, it’s a fight between leadership and lawlessness.

    That's the choice facing all Americans..

    And it's undeniable that President Trump and the GOP represent law and order..

    It's just as undeniable that The Democrat/AntiFa/BlackLivesMatter Party represent lawlessness, looting, murder and destruction...

    What sane American who loves this country is going to vote with The Democrat/AntiFa/BlackLivesMatter Party???

    Answer: NONE....

    The facts are clear...

  65. [65] 
    nypoet22 wrote:

    here's the most comprehensive information i could find on first wave vs. second wave:

    https://khn.org/news/fact-check-is-a-second-wave-of-coronavirus-coming/

  66. [66] 
    Bleyd wrote:

    Don Harris [54]
    Is there any politician at all who you wouldn't consider to be corrupted by big money? I mean, if your red line is accepting money from big donors, then no candidate is ever going to be worthy of your vote.

    Honestly, absolutists like you are arguably one of the biggest blockages to reform, because you're so unwilling to play the game that you'll never have a chance to win it. You can't change things if you're unwilling to take a seat at the table, if you're so intent on achieving all your goals in one fell swoop that you can't accept the small victories that would help to get you there.

    You want to change things? Help to elect someone who would at least be willing to listen to your proposed changes. Trump sure as hell won't, Biden has at least signaled that he would. You have to work within the system you have. It can be a pain in the ass and slower than molasses, but the only other option is violent rebellion, and that's not an option I could ever imagine promoting in America.

  67. [67] 
    BashiBazouk wrote:

    So, the Trump administration has just given up on Coronavirus?

    We've tried nothing and we're all out of ideas!
    -Ned flanders (or Trump, take your pick)

    126,277 Americans dead from Coronavirus and counting...

  68. [68] 
    Michale wrote:

    While our country makes its way through a moment of deep self-reflection, the political left has hijacked rational, thoughtful discussions about racism in America for ludicrous proposals to “abolish the police.” Even the liberal media, with its reflexive reaction to help legitimize the Democrats’ agenda -- rather than provide an objective examination of it – have struggled to explain progressive activists’ aspirations for a “police-free future.”

    Just a month ago, such radical ideas would have been laughed away. Today, they are receiving serious consideration in America’s largest – and in some of our most dangerous – cities. New York, Los Angeles, and Philadelphia have each already begun to roll back police funding. The Minneapolis City Council has voted to dismantle its department.

    Our country is broken, our people are hurting. Now more than ever Americans need leadership and action, not anarchy. Republicans at every level of government are stepping up and putting leadership ahead of lawlessness.

    President Trump has already taken swift action to create positive change within America’s police force. Under an executive order signed last week, the United States attorney general will allocate grants to “law enforcement agencies that meet high standards,” including use-of-force and de-escalation training. The order also “provides incentives for law enforcement agencies to use a nationwide database to track terminations, criminal convictions, and civil judgments against law enforcement officers for excessive use-of-force.”

    Once again, if one steps back and views events from the cold objective viewpoint of logic and rational thought, it's perfectly clear that the side representing chaos and destruction and anarchy will lose and lose big in Nov..

    Unfortunately for ya'all, THAT side is The Democrat/AntiFa/BlackLivesMatter Party...

    The facts are clear... As clear as the end result is going to be..

  69. [69] 
    Michale wrote:

    So, the Trump administration has just given up on Coronavirus?

    Nope.. The Democrat/AntiFa/BlackLivesMatter Party has given up on using that as a way to take down President Trump... Since the only real stat that matters is the death rate, the fact that THAT is on the decline means that patriotic Americans will flock to President Trump..

    We already know that 40% of black Americans are supporting President Trump..

    The NPAs and Independents are all on President Trump's side as well..

    126,277 Americans dead from Coronavirus and counting...

    And I'll respond as you responded to Odumbo's incompetence killing over 12,000 Americans..

    So???

    Face reality, Blathy... You can't win.. Your Democrat/AntiFa/BlackLivesMatter Party can't win..

    I would be willing to make any wager.. The fact that you are NOT willing shows you have no faith in your position..

    Probably the only smart thing you have done recently.. :D

  70. [70] 
    Michale wrote:

    here's the most comprehensive information i could find on first wave vs. second wave:

    https://khn.org/news/fact-check-is-a-second-wave-of-coronavirus-coming/

    Democrat/AntiFa/BlackLivesMatter Party propaganda.. Worthless as actual facts..

    And, as I have pointed out recently, no one cares about covid anymore... It was a failure to oust President Trump so The Democrat/AntiFa/BlackLivesMatter Party is now moving on to faux racism and abolish the police...

    Get with the times.. :D

  71. [71] 
    Michale wrote:

    Republicans in Congress are also quickly driving legislation. South Carolina Sen. Tim Scott, who last week faced disgusting, racist mockery from the left, introduced the JUSTICE Act, which carves out a clear path for meaningful police reform that includes more body cameras and strengthening reports about incidents and shootings where the police are involved.

    Senate Democrats, of course, couldn’t bear the idea of Republicans’ good-faith legislation – so, they’ve taken to smearing it instead of debating it. First, in appallingly racist fashion, Illinois Sen. Dick Durbin labeled Scott’s bill as a “token approach.” Now, Senate Democrats are threatening to block the bill from even being considered.

    But amid our nationalized politics, meaningful criminal justice reform will primarily occur in our state capitals and seats of local government. President Obama wrote shortly after protests began that “the elected officials who matter most in reforming police departments and the criminal justice system work at the state and local levels.” He’s absolutely right. Thankfully, Republicans in the states are already leading the way.

    Once again, Republicans lead... The Democrat/AntiFa/BlackLivesMatter Party is sucking ass... :D

  72. [72] 
    MyVoice wrote:

    [20] Michale

    I cannot search inside your head. Please provide a link to the party's plank. The plank, or party platform, is how a party puts forth the opinions and viewpoints about individual topics as held by the party.

  73. [73] 
    MtnCaddy wrote:

    It's hard to see what Trump will have left to shift to, if we do reach this point (which could come very rapidly, if the current slope of the pandemic chart is any indication). What will he have left to fall back on?

    I see Trump avoiding the entire coronavirus subject as much as he can, for he has clearly and unredeemably botched the coronavirus response. I expect him to gin up tensions/start a war with Iran in October. And I'd watch to see if Putin invades the Baltic states somewhere between election day and Biden's inauguration.

  74. [74] 
    Michale wrote:

    I cannot search inside your head. Please provide a link to the party's plank. The plank, or party platform, is how a party puts forth the opinions and viewpoints about individual topics as held by the party.

    Russ said that the Democrat Party is united... This is fact..

    It's also obvious that the Democrat Party supports AntiFa and Black Lives Matter..

    Do you deny these facts?? I am not going to waste my time researching something that is not in contention..

    If you don't believe the facts, then I'll support them..

    If you already know (as I suspect you do) that these are facts then there is no reason for me to replicate what you already know..

    So... Balls in your court sunshine..

    Do you deny that the Democrat Party supports AntiFa and BLM??

    A simple yes or no is all that is necessary...

  75. [75] 
    Don Harris wrote:

    Any politician that runs a small donor only campaign could b e considered not corrupted by big money.

    No candidate is worthy of my vote if they do not run a small donor only campaign.

    There is nothing wrong with being absolute about a basic requirement.

    I am the one willing to play the game- Hardball.

    The goal cannot be accomplished through reform. Reform requires legislation which cannot accomplish the goal.

    The reason big money is a problem is that the big money legislators only pass legislation that benefits the big money interests. The big money interests have no interest in getting the big money out of politics.

    In order to pass legislation to get the big money out of politics the big money legislators have to first be replaced by small donor legislators.

    The problem has to be solved before legislation to solve the problem can be passed.

    So sitting at the table discussing reform is merely avoiding taking action now and guaranteeing the goal will never be reached.

    I never said demanding small donor only candidates would be fully effective in one fell swoop. I have always said it will take more than one election cycle.

    The only time one fell swoop has been mentioned here it was by other commenters that falsely claimed that was I was claiming it would or used the fact it could not be fully successful right away meant that was a reason not to do it.

    By only voting for small donor only candidates and registering a write in vote against big money candidates if there are no small donor candidates on the ballot to demonstrate and create demand for small donor only candidates in future elections I am creating small victories that will help me get there and help elect candidates that will listen to my proposed changes.

    The proposed change is that the candidates stop making empty promises of future action and run small donor only campaigns now.

    So any candidate that is not running a small donor only campaign is not listening.

    Biden has signaled that we would, but he hasn't.

    And he won't unless citizens let him know they will not vote for him unless he does.

    He can and he should. And if he wants to earn my vote and the votes of citizens that recognize this simple basic reality and how democracy is designed to work then he will.

    The biggest obstacle to change is settling for empty promises of future action instead of demanding action now.

  76. [76] 
    Michale wrote:

    I see Trump avoiding the entire coronavirus subject as much as he can, for he has clearly and unredeemably botched the coronavirus response. I expect him to gin up tensions/start a war with Iran in October. And I'd watch to see if Putin invades the Baltic states somewhere between election day and Biden's inauguration.

    Ahh yes.. The old STARTS A WAR BS... :D

    I think ya'all used that quite a bit during the faux impeachment coup AND the Russia Collusion delusion..

    Of course, as is obvious ya'all were wrong..

    AGAIN... :D

    It's well documented that President Trump has ENDED more wars than any other POTUS....

    I believe it was yer messiah Odumbo who started some of those.. :D

  77. [77] 
    Michale wrote:

    By the bi, MC..

    Since The Democrat/AntiFa/BlackLivesMatter Party has obstructed police reform because their Party is more important than the country, perhaps you can share your ideas now..

    Or are you conceding that you, like The The Democrat/AntiFa/BlackLivesMatter Party, don't have clue one about Police Reform..

    That you and your The Democrat/AntiFa/BlackLivesMatter Party agree with me that Police needs no reform...

  78. [78] 
    Michale wrote:

    Strong, steady, compassionate leadership from Republicans across the country is helping to heal our nation – while liberal activists stoke the flames of fear and lawlessness. Many Democrats are forcing Americans to make a false choice: law and order or meaningful police reform. That’s preposterous. We can do both. We have to do both. And Republicans are proving we will get it done.

    Now is a time for soul-searching in America -- and it’s happening in states all across the country. Let’s hope for the good of all Americans it continues. And that America remains strong, police and all.

    I am all for police 'reform'...

    But, since neither Officer Chauvin nor Officer Rolff actually did anything wrong, I am not sure that they can enact 'reform' without doing more harm than good..

    For example.. Some moronic Left Wingers want to eliminate choke-holds, chemical non-lethal weapons and tasers....

    So, basically, officers will have to go from one stage of force... presence... directly to deadly force...

    The idea is to give police more options, not take options away.. DUH.....

    It's this kind of STOOPIDITY that emanates from ignorant Left Wingers that will do more harm than good...

  79. [79] 
    Michale wrote:

    Abolish the police? Black residents in Harlem say no as white liberals push for it in video
    https://www.foxnews.com/us/police-abolish-video-black-lives-matter-new-york-city

    Once again, the complete and utter stoopidity of The Democrat/AntiFa/BlackLivesMatter Party knows no depths of moronic-ness...

    It's no wonder that 40% of black Americans are supporting President Trump...

  80. [80] 
    James T Canuck wrote:

    Trump lost the 2020 election a week into the stock market plunge, he ensured that defeat when he gurgled on endlessly in march in full denial of the approaching pandemic. People are fed up with the bullshit, lies, and ineptitude of Trump and his revolving-door of 'best people' in and out of his Oval Office-Coterie of cretins.

    Expect election night to be over by 10pm, maybe earlier.

    LL&P

  81. [81] 
    Michale wrote:

    St. Augustine Passes Mask Mandate Starting Saturday
    https://news.wjct.org/post/st-augustine-passes-mask-mandate-starting-saturday

    Well, I guess I won't be going into town any time soon..

    FL State law says I can't be wearing any kind of face covering when under arms..

    Besides..

    sjfm.us/pics/MyBody.jpg

    Right Democrats??? It's a woman's body so it's a woman's choice, right???

  82. [82] 
    Michale wrote:

    Trump lost the 2020 election a week into the stock market plunge, he ensured that defeat when he gurgled on endlessly in march in full denial of the approaching pandemic. People are fed up with the bullshit, lies, and ineptitude of Trump and his revolving-door of 'best people' in and out of his Oval Office-Coterie of cretins.

    Expect election night to be over by 10pm, maybe earlier.

    Wanna bet???

    Americans aren't going to vote for The Democrat/AntiFa/BlackLivesMatter Party..

    It's that simple...

    If yer so sure of yer prediction, why not make a wager, 'nuck???

    :D

    Com'on.. Man up.. Have the strength of your convictions...

    On one point, you are dead on ballz accurate..

    The election WILL be over by 2200hrs, likely sooner..

    And Joe Biden, if he's the candidate, can't possibly win...

    NO ONE is going to vote Democrat/AntiFa/BlackLivesMatter...

    I am willing to wager cause I am sure of my facts..

    Are you?? :D

    Of course yer not..

  83. [83] 
    Michale wrote:

    The true mark of someone who has his facts straight..

    He puts his $$$ where his facts are..

    No one else can make the claim... :D

  84. [84] 
    Michale wrote:

    I mean, seriously.. Try to step back from your ideological slavery and look at things logically..

    In the here and now, The Democrat/AntiFa/BlackLivesMatter Party is the Party of riots and looting.. The Party of ambushing & killing cops and armed take overs of neighborhoods.. The Party of arson and destruction of American culture....

    And you honestly believe that real patriotic Americans are going to vote for THAT Party???

    Com'on, people.. That defies all logic and rational thought...

  85. [85] 
    Michale wrote:

    Pelosi misspeaks, says police reform bill is worthy of ‘George Kirby’s’ name

    "I only will do that if you tell me that this legislation is worthy of George Kirby's name," the California Democrat said
    https://www.foxnews.com/politics/pelosi-misspeaks-police-reform-george-kirbys

    Ha... Pelosi... The gift to President Trump and the GOP that keeps on giving..

    "One tee meeny martoonies.."
    -Brendan Fraser, BEDAZZLED

    :D

  86. [86] 
    MyVoice wrote:

    [74] Michale
    Moving the goal posts are you? Not surprising. This is not the party you originally named.
    FACT: There is no such thing as the party you invented.
    FACT: There is no such thing as the Democrat Party.
    You should review Russ' response to your assertion of what he said. Has Russ become the mouthpiece of the party you invented? Has he been apprised of this? Perhaps he'd rather make his own choices.
    By the way, to your attempted justification that a thing is a fact because you believe some individual uttered it: opinions are not facts. Here is a an easy to understand definition of opinion for you:
    Opinion: noun
    a view or judgment formed about something, not necessarily based on fact or knowledge.

    This is probably why opinions on any given topic vary wildly and may be the basis for shrugging and saying everyone is entitled to an opinion. Many people come to a forum like this just to read others' opinions and may even choose to share their own. It's kind of cool.
    You also appear to have a problem with comprehending the difference between an individual and a group, but we'll have to leave that for a later lesson.
    Only you can possibly know the planks of parties you have invented. You have free rein with that. If, however, you can point me to an actual official position taken by an actual party, I'd be interested in reading it. Barring some documentation of your assertions, however, they are simply bushwa and I have no time for bushwa.

  87. [87] 
    Michale wrote:

    Moving the goal posts are you? Not surprising. This is not the party you originally named.

    Not at all.. I am just asking you to state your position..

    That's ALWAYS been the goalposts..

    If you can't do that or have a reason why you DON'T want to do that, then man up and say so..

    FACT: There is no such thing as the Democrat Party.

    And yet, the facts clearly PROVE that The Democrat/AntiFa/BlackLivesMatter Party exists..

    I get it.. You want to split hairs and get into the semantic weeds because you have no defense for the hate and bile of your chosen Party..

    Blaa Blaaa Blaaa Blaaa..

    I accept your concession.

    But am not surprised by it at all..

  88. [88] 
    Michale wrote:

    [74] Michale

    And for the record, that comment was #79...

    You can't even get that factually accurate... :eyeroll:

  89. [89] 
    Michale wrote:

    Yer dismissed.. Run along now and remember the spanking....

  90. [90] 
    Michale wrote:

    Remind me again how The Democrat/AntiFa/BlackLivesMatter Party is not serious about abolishing the police??

    BREAKING NEWS: Minneapolis city council votes 12-0 to abolish police department after death of George Floyd and will replace it with a 'department of community safety and violence prevention'

    Minneapolis city council unanimously approves amendment to city charter

    City charter requires that there be a police force to maintain public safety

    Amendment calls for 'department of community safety and violence prevention'

    New department would offer 'a holistic, public health-oriented approach'

    Agency head will have 'non-law-enforcement experience in community safety'

    Five city council members are trying to jam through amendment quickly

    They hope to get amendment on ballot in November so city residents can vote

    But Mayor Jacob Frey said he is opposed to abolishing the police department

    If Frey vetoes the amendment, the city council could then override his veto
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8462953/Minneapolis-council-puts-plan-abolish-police-motion.html?ito=social-facebook&fbclid=IwAR0uPfdHWAlDwgJ5dB02KFiEW7lJn2nrA67oLL0f0hy32OUE6XCz8cjRHEU&fbclid=IwAR1jbsBuRRV_Gt9cL3IKYdT4_c_ESLnyIA-A8XNpmLIS8RCRsLoEuEdRIYM&fbclid=IwAR1b7XxZliBUHuTZ4xCfR84JWybXcf8fOrd_08z-pga_0r6LBke59oMAfRc

    I seem to have forgotten what with all the FACTS to the contrary...

    :eyeroll:

  91. [91] 
    Michale wrote:

    BBBBBWWWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

    Amendment calls for 'department of community safety and violence prevention'

    New department would offer 'a holistic, public health-oriented approach'

    BBBBBWWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

    Yea... THAT's the ticket...

    THAT will work instead of police officers..

    Oh my gods!!!

    And you people HONESTLY believe that The Democrat/AntiFa/BlackLivesMatter Party actually has a chance to win ANYTHING in Nov????

    I hope none of ya'all chicken out and are here on the evening of 3 Nov 2020 to take yer medicine.. :D

    "HALT!!! We need to holistically talk about your actions that are counter to the public good!!! HALT!!! OR I'll say HALT again!!"

    BBBBWWAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

    You people HONESTLY think this is gonna work!??? :D

    That just cracks me up.... :D

  92. [92] 
    MyVoice wrote:

    [87] Michale

    It's a shame you can't figure out the Permalinks embedded in my copy-paste of your post header. Click on that and it takes you directly to your claptrap, no matter what you think the numbering should be. It's as simple as that.

    Yes, it's well past time for you to declare victory and slink off, as you clearly lack the foundation to hold a reasoned and coherent discussion. It must be very frustrating to have to rely on your rather pathetic attempts to bully. Be best.

  93. [93] 
    Michale wrote:

    It's a shame you can't figure out the Permalinks embedded in my copy-paste of your post header. Click on that and it takes you directly to your claptrap, no matter what you think the numbering should be. It's as simple as that.

    It's a shame you can't simply quote what you are referring to.. I guess it's too difficult for you to figure out..

    Yes, it's well past time for you to declare victory and slink off,

    BBBWWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

    How many comments do you have?? 2?? 3?? PER MONTH!??

    And you accuse ME of "slinking off"???

    Seriously, dood.. ANYONE here can tell you that "slinking off" is not one of my faults.. :D

    But apparently, it IS yours.. :D

    as you clearly lack the foundation to hold a reasoned and coherent discussion.

    Says the moron who refuses to even take a stand..

    Again, NOT a problem I have... But, apparently, YOU do..

    It must be very frustrating to have to rely on your rather pathetic attempts to bully.

    Says the moron who is "slinking off"...

    Be best.

    I always am... :D

    [87] Michale

    Again.. NOT #87... #92... Why should I open up multiple browser windows when you can just state the comment???

  94. [94] 
    Michale wrote:

    Yes, it's well past time for you to declare victory and slink off,

    I mean, HONESTLY???

    Have you MET me?? :D

    BBBBWWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

    Slink off.. THAT'S funny... :D

  95. [95] 
    Elizabeth Miller wrote:

    Don,

    What about the candidate, who surely will materialize in your world, who says he is running a small donor campaign, gets elected because doing that sort of thing has become the only way to get elected but, secretly takes big money bribes which only becomes public knowledge long after he is elected and leaves office?

    What about that kind of candidate?

    You, see, this particular scenario has probably never crossed your mind, nor the widespread corruptibility of your idea.

    You know why?

    Because, you don't care - not even one bit - about the character and integrity of a candidate. In your world, a candidate with character and integrity beyond reproach but who accepts money from big donors isn't worth your spit.

    I'm sorry to say that your small thinking is tiresome.

  96. [96] 
    MyVoice wrote:

    [94] Michale

    Well, hey, Champ, I thought you'd already notched this one as a win, but here you are again. Good news! The Permalink above won't open a new tab. See if you can manage that.

    At least this gives me a chance to bring you up to speed on another vocabulary word you haven't mastered. I went to a children's dictionary for this one, as I don't want to overtax you.

    What Is Semantics?
    Semantics is the study of the meanings of words, phrases and other text. Think about your first name. Do you think you would be a different person if you'd been named something else? A name is like a label that you've been given. It's what people have agreed to call you. We also have labels for everything else in our world; these labels are called words. Words are labels for ideas, things, actions, people, places…words label everything!

    Words and Labels
    We have agreed to use certain words when we're talking about the things we label. This is important - if everyone made up their own labels, we wouldn't be able to understand each other. For example, if I call my car a 'table,' but you call it a 'car,' you won't understand what I mean when I invite you to ride in my 'table!'

    Being understood can have advantages. You could give that a try sometime.

    Time for you to get back to your puerile (get a grownup to help you look that up) drivel. Buh bye.

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D8B2oJ5UwAEkE-p.jpg

  97. [97] 
    Michale wrote:

    Joe Biden has claimed that 160 million Americans have been killed by guns..

    Joe Biden also claimed that 120 million Americans have been killed by Covid...

    So, according to Joe Biden, there are only 48 million Americans in this country..

    THIS is the guy that you people think will be POTUS??

    That's so laughable...

  98. [98] 
    Michale wrote:

    Well, hey, Champ, I thought you'd already notched this one as a win, but here you are again.

    And here you are as well.. Notching your comment count to 4.. WOW.... Impressive...

    Good news! The Permalink above won't open a new tab. See if you can manage that.

    Yea, it just erases the current page I am on.. DUH....

    Why can't you just admit you don't know how to count or you don't know how to use attributes??

    Why make yourself look MORE stoopid???

    Blaaa Blaaa Blaaaa..

    STILL afraid to take a stand??

    Why are you even here if you can't handle staking a position and standing by it???

    You really ARE a Democrat, eh?? Afraid of their own shadow...

    Let's see if ya have the balls to get to FIVE comments..

    WHOOOAAAAAAA Taxing yer skills a lot, I know... :D

  99. [99] 
    Michale wrote:

    Because, you don't care - not even one bit - about the character and integrity of a candidate.

    It's probably because we're talking about Biden who HAS no character or integrity...

    See comment #102 about Biden "math"...

    I mean, let's face reality.. Biden is senile... He's been in DC way too long and has definitely outworn his welcome...

    I mean, shit.. That's probably the one smart thing Odumbo did..

    Choose Biden as his VP thereby insuring no one would try to impeach Odumbo...

    This may come across as overly cruel, but again, let's face reality...

    Biden lost all chances of respect when he threw Tara Reade under the bus...

  100. [100] 
    Don Harris wrote:

    Liz-
    What about that rare exception?

    If the majority of small donor only candidates are not secretly corrupt, which is likely, and we reach the point when the majority of legislators are honest small donor legislators then the occasional exception will not be influencing legislation. And who would bother to bribe a legislator that can't influence legislation?

    And once the corrupt exception voted on legislation in a way that benefited the person(s) bribing the legislator the legislator would not be in office for long.

    Hopefully the media would also do their job to find out about and expose the corruption.

    So-SURPRISE! I thought of your scenario years ago. And most likely many things you never thought of.

    There is no widespread corruptability of this idea. There is widespread corruption in the big money Dems and Republicans right now. In this case the exception is the honest one.

    So the possibility of occasional corruption as a worst case scenario is far better than guaranteed widespread corruption we have now.

    So a not perfect One Demand with the corrupt individual being the exception rather than the rule of the big money Dems and Republicans is clearly much better.

    Isn't that the argument always made here that you can't demand perfect when you can have better?

    You can't say that a candidate that could finance their campaign with small donors only but still takes big money has character and integrity that is beyond reproach.

    Well, you can say it but it won't be true.

    Funny how an idea that is too big to attempt is suddenly small thinking. :D

    I think perhaps you are projecting your own small thinking on to me so you don't have to acknowledge it in yourself.

  101. [101] 
    MyVoice wrote:

    [98] Michale

    Aw, poor, poor, pitiful you. Links are hard for you, I know.

    My stance is that you are entitled to entertain yourself with whatever inanities you concoct. It seems rather a sad occupation, but your choice is your choice.

    No one else has to play in your playpen, though. Today, you'll just have to be alone with your twaddle.

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D8B2oJ5UwAEkE-p.jpg

  102. [102] 
    Elizabeth Miller wrote:

    Don, do you understand the influence of money? I would have thought that you of all people would. Or, is this just a game you are playing?

  103. [103] 
    Elizabeth Miller wrote:

    Don,

    My point, which was far to subtle to be derived, is that with someone like Biden, character and integrity trump big money donors … especially now.

    The failure to understand this point is incomprehensible to me.

  104. [104] 
    Elizabeth Miller wrote:

    I think perhaps you are projecting your own small thinking on to me so you don't have to acknowledge it in yourself.

    "Maybe yes, maybe no, anyting is posibo."

  105. [105] 
    Elizabeth Miller wrote:

    To put it another way, Don, you seem to think that any candidate who accepts or even solicits big money campaign contributions is automatically corrupt and will not work in the best interests of communities and citizens.

    That is where we two have always parted ways.

  106. [106] 
    Elizabeth Miller wrote:

    And, that goes especially for a candidate who hates fundraising and has always been an advocate for getting big money out of politics, if for no other reason that he has ALWAYS been at the shortest end of that stick.

  107. [107] 
    Don Harris wrote:

    Liz-
    I do understand your point. That is how I know it is wrong.

    My point, that is not at all subtle, is that if Biden's character and integrity trump big money donors, then he would be demonstrating that character and integrity by running a small donor only campaign.

    Especially now.

    Do you understand the influence of voting?

    The influence of money buys legislation. It is able to buy legislation because citizens give the big money politicians their votes for nothing.

    When citizens refuse to vote for candidates that take big money and demand candidates be small donor candidates to obtain their votes then the big money interests will not be able to buy legislation.

    When candidates have to choose between getting votes or taking big money they will have no choice but to choose the votes over big money if they want to get elected.

    Basic democracy.

  108. [108] 
    Elizabeth Miller wrote:

    Another argument that I have with you, Don, is that getting big money out of politics isn't going to be an easy proposition or happen over night.

    I know you answer that argument with something to the effect that One Demand takes care of that obstacle with the notion that voters will only vote for small donor candidates.

    Sounds kinda simple. Because, it is!

    It will require a massive and sustained public education campaign to change the political behavior of people. And, the funny thing is, you're not really into that. But, it is something that YOU - not anyone else - will have to decide to tackle if you want your idea to gain significant traction.

    And, even if you are a pubic educator extraordinaire, that change in political behavior ain't gonna happen before 03 November 2020.

    Why not, in the meanwhile, vote for a guy who is, at the very least, sympathetic to your cause and, in fact, is the guy that can start the public education campaign that will be needed for a complete overhaul of campaign finance, in a time when people may be ready for massive change?

  109. [109] 
    Elizabeth Miller wrote:

    OMG!!!

    Okay, Chris, dear editor, you MUST help me with the ole pubic/public dilemma in comment number 108.

    And, while you are it, get a frakking time-sensitive edit function.

    Because, the preview thingy doesn't work for me, apparently. Ahem.

  110. [110] 
    MtnCaddy wrote:

    Hey, My voice, nice smackdown of Michale. His misuse of the English language is just one more thing he does to try to get people to engage with him on his juvenile level. Hence the name calling and increasingly outrageous statements. Just trying to get somebody, anybody, to pay attention. I mean, I just don't see the appeal of trying to annoy rather than to persuade. So much braying. And what's with his obsession with making bets? Who cares how sure anyone is that Trump (or Biden) will win? November will be here soon enough.

  111. [111] 
    Don Harris wrote:

    Liz-
    The Joe Biden you describe that is sympathetic to my cause and has been an advocate for getting the big money out of politics does not exist.

    If he did exist he would be acting as a leader by running a small donor only campaign now.

    The fact that it will take time to change the public perceptions is not a reason to put off starting to change the public perceptions. That is all the more reason to start NOW.

    If it takes 4-6 years or more to achieve the goal, waiting another 2,4,6,8 (why do you procrastinate?) years to start will then mean it will not achieve the goal for 6-14 years instead of 4-6 years.

    And if 2,4,6,8 years go by without getting started because it can't be effective right away then the goal may never be achieved.

  112. [112] 
    Elizabeth Miller wrote:

    It's not about how long it's going to take. It's about whether you will get there at all, considering the self-defeating tactics being employed.

    If your goal is re-electing Trump by defeating Biden, your priorities are pretty screwed up.

    For now, I won't be wasting anymore time trying to have a cogent discussion with you.

  113. [113] 
    MtnCaddy wrote:

    [112]

    Although you know, Brother Don, that I, too, wanna get BigMoney® out of politics. But I hafta agree with Sister Elizabeth: it matters which "BigMoney® candidate wins.

    It matters to the 125,000 dead Americans, it matters to the economy, and it especially matters to OneDemand® because OD
    won't ever even be considered if the Repugs are in charge.

    The Progressives are taking over the Democratic Party so why don't you get off your absolutist high horse and pitch in?

  114. [114] 
    MtnCaddy wrote:

    (wiping the dust off my hands)

    There. I've dealt with the Troll Twins and now I can go about my day.

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