ChrisWeigant.com

Will We Know Who Won On Election Night?

[ Posted Monday, June 8th, 2020 – 16:58 UTC ]

I know we all have plenty to worry about these days, so I apologize in advance for adding another possible item to the list. But we could be heading for a very worrisome situation indeed, because contrary to how Americans have experienced past presidential elections (well... other than in the year 2000...), we may not actually know who won on the night of the election. There are a combination of factors which have set up this rather unique situation, and it may not even come to pass if a few of these variables change by November. But the possibility now exists that we won't know for days -- or even weeks -- who won the Electoral College and thus the presidency. Which, obviously, could lead to chaos, especially considering what Donald Trump will be saying and tweeting in the meantime.

What is especially worrisome is what is happening now in Pennsylvania. The state held its primary election last Tuesday, but as of this writing several of the races have not been called yet, due to the overwhelming increase in the number of voters casting their ballots by mail.

From a Politico article posted Friday:

Three days have passed since Election Day, and races for auditor general, state senate and state representative are still up in the air in Pennsylvania.

Election officials haven't finished counting the vote because they are grappling with an influx of more than 1.4 million mail ballots after the state implemented no-excuse absentee voting for the first time ever amid a pandemic, widespread protests and riots. In Philadelphia, the biggest city in the state, only about 14,000 of nearly 160,000 mail and absentee ballots had been tallied as of Friday afternoon.

. . .

Gov. Tom Wolf's administration said it did not have the total number of uncounted mail ballots throughout the state. But Wanda Murren, spokeswoman for the Department of State, said 49 of the state's 67 counties had finished tallying their mail ballots.

From the Philadelphia Inquirer, also on Friday:

Philadelphia election officials stopped counting mail ballots Thursday and may not start again for days, warning that the outcomes of a number of races in Tuesday's primary won't be known for several weeks and that the city may miss a legal deadline for certifying the results.

The delay is due to the large number of mail ballots voters requested in the last week before the deadline, Deputy City Commissioner Nick Custodio said. He said the commissioners, who run Philadelphia elections, stopped counting them so workers can check poll books to ensure nobody voted twice.

Almost half of the votes cast Tuesday in Pennsylvania's largest city will remain uncounted until next week.

"The outcomes of some races will not be known for weeks, and the candidates and campaigns should be prepared for that," Custodio said Friday during a meeting of the city commissioners.

As noted, this election was rather unique. Not only are we only now beginning to emerge from the coronavirus lockdown, but protests were still raging in the streets. But the real reason for the delay is that Pennsylvania just is not used to such a high volume of mail-in ballots. And they're not the only state facing this problem.

As I noted a while ago, state laws dealing with elections don't really divide up along partisan lines. It's more of an "old/new" geographical divide, with the newer states in the West embracing mail-in voting (now including Utah, a very red state) while the older states still cling to a 19th-century notion of how elections should be held (including plenty of East Coast blue states).

This election, however, has forced almost all of the reluctant states to facilitate mail-in voting for everyone who wants it, to some degree or another. The problem is that unlike states which have gradually transitioned into mail-in-only elections (like Oregon and Colorado), the states who were forced into accepting it simply are not prepared for the volume. Which means that multiple states -- including some battleground states -- might, in November, face the same situation Pennsylvania is now grappling with.

Imagine what might happen if a dozen or more states cannot report their election totals on Election Day in November. If neither candidate can show a clear win in the Electoral College, then we will be in for a very tense period of time while all the votes are accurately tallied up. Which could end up making Bush v. Gore look like Sunday school picnic. Especially considering that the very counties who are likely going to have problems counting their votes in a timely manner are precisely where a whole lot of Democrats live. Rural counties are, by definition, sparsely populated. Counting fewer ballots takes less time, to state the obvious. So we could see the lion's share of the red votes reported very quickly while the blue votes continue to trickle in.

Which the Politico article pointed out:

The fact that Philadelphia, a Democratic stronghold, is still counting mail ballots is particularly nerve-wracking for Democrats. They fear that President Donald Trump could use delays there in the fall to discredit the results -- or declare victory after rural areas where he is strongest have finished tallying mail ballots, but before Philly is done.

"The volume of votes in November will be much higher and Trump will use any opportunity he gets to question and undermine the validity of the election in November," said Amanda McIllmurray, a Philadelphia-based Democratic strategist, "which will disproportionately and intentionally disenfranchise Black, brown and white working-class voters."

Said one high-ranking Democratic elected official in the state: "It could, under the right circumstances lead to a constitutional crisis. Can you imagine what Donald Trump would say when they're still counting ballots in 'crooked, dirty, Democratic' Philadelphia three days after the election?"

Multiply that times a few more battleground states, and the potential for chaos becomes painfully apparent.

This is not, however, a certainty. The situation may have dramatically changed by November. Perhaps the coronavirus pandemic will not reappear in the fall. Perhaps people will be a lot more comfortable being in crowds by then. If that's the case, then fewer people (especially in states where it is a fairly new concept) will wind up voting by mail. Perhaps states will learn their lesson from the primary, as the article goes on to point out:

Still, [Wanda Murren] said, there are lessons to be learned from the election officials who were able to count the mail ballots more quickly than others. "Allegheny County was able to accomplish this because they are using the highest speed, highest capacity ballot-handling and scanning equipment available. The department is encouraging other counties to use their recent federal subgrants to acquire equipment of similar capacity before November."

Perhaps the states who lag won't matter in the grand scheme of things. If, for instance, California takes a few extra days to report their election results, nobody's going to be predicting that Trump won the state. Conversely, if Arkansas takes a while, few are going to be saying Joe Biden won it. The only place it'll even really matter is in the swing states where the outcome is not all but preordained. If enough of them do a good enough job counting ballots on Election Day, then one candidate or the other may have amassed the 270 Electoral College votes necessary, meaning waiting for Pennsylvania's total will become a mere footnote to the election. There are a lot of ways things could go "go right," in other words, instead of devolving into a constitutional crisis. Even in the battleground states, if one candidate or the other has a sufficiently overwhelming lead (one bigger than the remaining uncounted ballots, in other words), that will be enough for a victor to be declared (even if it takes days to find out the precise margin of that victory). So there's no guarantee a few hiccups will stop us all from knowing who actually won on election night.

However, if "Election Day" stretches into "Election Week," then things are almost guaranteed to get very ugly very quickly. Trump will tweet his rage, but more important will be the legal challenges both he and the Republican Party start filing in all of these states. Again, please remember Bush v. Gore. Trump has spent his entire lifetime refining the use of lawsuits into an artform. And the GOP will be more than happy to foot the bill for as many lawyers as it takes to challenge the results, no matter how many states or jurisdictions they have to file suit in.

It's already almost a certainty that if Trump loses he will spend the rest of his life pushing conspiracy theories about how the election was "stolen from him." That's pretty much a given, knowing Trump. But if we don't know the full results on the night of the election, Trump is going to shift that effort into overdrive before the sun even rises the next morning.

Which is why I sincerely hope that Pennsylvania and all the other states who are unused to high volumes of mail-in ballots will use the intervening months to get their act together in a major way. Because the scenario of waiting days to find out who won is a worry that none of us really needs, at this point.

-- Chris Weigant

 

Follow Chris on Twitter: @ChrisWeigant

 

81 Comments on “Will We Know Who Won On Election Night?”

  1. [1] 
    Kick wrote:

    Will We Know Who Won On Election Night?

    If the election were held today we dang sure would! :)

  2. [2] 
    Elizabeth Miller wrote:

    Indeed.

  3. [3] 
    Kick wrote:

    CW: Again, please remember Bush v. Gore. Trump has spent his entire lifetime refining the use of lawsuits into an artform. And the GOP will be more than happy to foot the bill for as many lawyers as it takes to challenge the results, no matter how many states or jurisdictions they have to file suit in.

    A more likely scenario is Trump losing one, two, even three of the states he won in 2016 on election night and the "handwriting being on the wall"... say Trump were to lose Michigan and Wisconsin and then Arizona because "the astronaut." It'd be your "handwriting on the proverbial wall" scenario.

    I see no evidence in the data whatsoever to date that Trump is winning back the 'burbs that were lost in the midterms. On the contrary, Trump's support is further eroding with the continued loss of educated men, older voters, and the "woman gap" is growing ever larger.

  4. [4] 
    Kick wrote:

    Chris Weigant

    US Army open to considering removal of Confederate leaders' names from bases

    Mon June 8, 2020

    https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/08/politics/us-army-considering-renaming-bases/index.html

  5. [5] 
    MtnCaddy wrote:

    I lifted this quote from an article in The Atlantic. Summarizing what's so bad about our fake President is difficult because there's so much awfulness to choose from. This little ditty is as good as I've yet heard. Trump is
    a man who can whine about journalists while seated at the feet of Abraham Lincoln’s statue, disclaim responsibility for anything and everything, bully and abuse subordinates who are infinitely more valuable to public health than he, muse about injecting bleach, and generally disgrace himself and his country with his antics.

    Enjoy!

  6. [6] 
    MtnCaddy wrote:

    [4]

    Wow, that was quick, Mr. Weigant! No wonder Don Harris and Michale piggyback on your blog -- to win friends and influence people [
    that
    was sarcasm.]

  7. [7] 
    MtnCaddy wrote:

    Last FTP

    Michale wrote (in part)

    So, he had to put in a titanium plate about the size of a dinner plate to attach all the ribs..

    On the PLUS side, it can stop up to a 9mm at close range...

    Say... in case me and my 9mm ever make it down to whatever Floridian feverswamp you live in: which side of your ribcage is that plate on?

    Heh.

  8. [8] 
    MtnCaddy wrote:

    JK, Brother Michale! (No, really! Like I'd say from time to time during my real estate career, "Trust me -- I'm in Sales!")

    In fact I read the whole story and I welcome your return to our Weigantian family. Now, go [bleep] off!

    Yep, definitely missed ya.;D

  9. [9] 
    MtnCaddy wrote:

    (sound of MtnCaddy, cracking himself up on The Left Coast)

  10. [10] 
    MtnCaddy wrote:

    Sooomebody... stop me!

    Jim Carey
    The Mask

  11. [11] 
    MtnCaddy wrote:

    Last FTP

    [73]

    Michale ended with:

    am actually in a pretty good mood considering the events of the last couple days... The wonders of modern pain pills... D

    Get off those pain pills run out -- all us Lefties know that you can sling 'em for BIG BUCKS at ANY local Junior High School!

  12. [12] 
    Michale wrote:

    FPC

    Victoria,

    Wrong... and once again, your obvious dearth of the "expertise" you frequently claim has reared it ugly head and screamed loudly. You omitted "undetermined" and "pending."

    Those aren't causes of death which is what we were discussing. Those are place holders that will be replaced with the 4 types of death when the facts become available...

    Yes, that was quoted from the Hennepin County Medical Examiner's autopsy and not that complicated a cause of death. I cannot help you if you're effing illiterate.

    "Of course you can PROVE that, right!?? Oh yea, that's right.. I forgot.. You were absent the day they taught LAW and law school!!"
    -Tom Cruise, A FEW GOOD MEN

    :D

  13. [13] 
    Michale wrote:

    Let's stick with reality, shall we??

    Of the two last Presidential Candidates, WHO didn't accept the results and tried to muddy the waters and WHO DID accept the results???

    Remember.. REALITY based forum.. :D

  14. [14] 
    Michale wrote:

    Victoria,

    I see no evidence in the data whatsoever to date that Trump is winning back the 'burbs that were lost in the midterms. On the contrary, Trump's support is further eroding with the continued loss of educated men, older voters, and the "woman gap" is growing ever larger.

    It's important to note that you practically said the exact same thing in 2016 and yet, President Trump still kicked Hillary's ass..

    I would have thought ALL of ya'all would be gun shy about devoting yourselves to polls again... Once bitten and all that, eh? :D

    Ahh well, makes me no never mind.. Will just make my celebrations on the evening of 3 Nov that much sweeter.. :D

  15. [15] 
    Michale wrote:

    MC,

    Say... in case me and my 9mm ever make it down to whatever Floridian feverswamp you live in: which side of your ribcage is that plate on?

    Heh.

    Heh... :D

    In fact I read the whole story and I welcome your return to our Weigantian family. Now, go [bleep] off!

    Yep, definitely missed ya.;D

    It's nice ta be missed... With every shot! :D

    Sooomebody... stop me!

    Jim Carey
    The Mask

    And the mark I have left on this forum continues on... :D

  16. [16] 
    Michale wrote:

    Democrats Then and Now...

    http://sjfm.us/pics/ThenNow.jpg

    It's simply amazing to me... The more things change, the more they stay the same... :^/

  17. [17] 
    Michale wrote:

    Apropos of absolutely nothing...

    http://sjfm.us/pics/glider.jpg

    Who played with these as a kid.. :D

  18. [18] 
    Michale wrote:

    This was actually meant to be posted yesterday as it was the catalyst for a lot of what I said and what I was going thru yesterday..

    It's a MUST READ for those who toss around the word "racism" with reckless abandon obviously with NO IDEA what it really means and without ANY basis in fact whatsoever...

    Racism, Inc.

    Like the word “heretic” in an earlier age, “racism” is more weapon than word.

    For the last couple of months, your inbox, like mine, has been awash in nauseating communiqués from every school, club, or business you had carelessly entrusted with your email address. “Stay safe,” they urged—and stay home. A great plague is upon the land, and we must all respond with displays of ritual purification and groveling obedience. Shows of obedience were critical, as was the virtue-signaling that accompanied them. People were shamed for appearing in public without a mask or for walking too close to other people. The whole thing was an extraordinary display of communal insanity.

    Suddenly, almost overnight, those communiqués vanished, replaced by others, no less nauseating. There are new items on the menu of virtue-signaling and ritual abasement. Now the theme is not a novel respiratory virus, but a spiritual virus: the virus of supposed “systemic” or “institutional” “racism” and police brutality.

    A day or two ago Uber emailed me to announce that it “stands with the Black community”—how nice for them—and that it deplores “institutional racism, and the police violence it gives rise to.” The Yale Club of New York let it be known that it “unequivocally condemns racism, violence, and social injustice in our society.” Unequivocally! Meanwhile, the Harvard Club chimed in about its “broken” heart because of “racism, injustice, and violence.” Many politicians have signed up for this chorus, taking their cue from Minnesota Governor Tim Walz who decried the “stain . . . of fundamental, institutional racism.”

    As all the world knows, the catalyst for this emetic display of meaningless verbiage was the unfortunate death of George Floyd, a black man and career criminal, who expired while being arrested by the police in Minneapolis. Much obloquy—to say nothing of a second-degree murder charge—has been directed at Officer Derek Chauvin, one of four police officers involved with the arrest, for his rough restraint of Floyd. Chauvin, who is white, pinned a handcuffed Floyd to the ground, kneeling on his neck. Was that what killed Floyd? Maybe. But maybe he died because his serious heart condition was fatally aggravated by the Fentanyl and methamphetamine he had ingested.

    In any event, the death of Floyd, excruciatingly captured by an amateur video that went viral, was the spark that excited not only the explosion of hand-wringing about supposed “systemic racism” among the police and in American society at large, but also the nationwide wave of protests, violent riots, and even calls to defund or disband the police.

    As I have noted elsewhere, the destructive mob riots are not race riots. Rather, they are an attack on civilization itself. In essence, they are a reprise of the antinomian radicalism that swept the country in the late 1960s and early 1970s, with Antifa and Black Lives Matter standing in for the SDS, the Weather Underground, and the Black Panthers.
    https://amgreatness.com/2020/06/06/racism-inc/

    As I mentioned yesterday. This has all happened before in my lifetime.. 1968..

    History repeats itself...

  19. [19] 
    Michale wrote:

    Now as then, histrionic rhetoric ran far ahead of reality. America was not a racist country in 1968. Nor is it one now. As Heather Mac Donald has shown, the charge that the police are guilty of “systemic racism” is a divisive myth. In 2018, Blacks were responsible for 53 percent of the homicides and 60 percent of the robberies in the United States, though they represent only 13 percent of the population. “Police shootings,” Mac Donald observed, “are not the reason that blacks die of homicide at eight times the rate of whites and Hispanics combined; criminal violence is.”

    Cold objective and rational FACTS, not hysterical BS racist rhetoric...

    THAT is what this country needs right now...

  20. [20] 
    Michale wrote:

    Another oddity: Racism, Inc. manufactures only one-way ratchets. That is to say, “all animals are equal, but some are more equal than others.” I well remember a bulletin from a professor at Texas Christian University:

    At the beginning of the semester, I usually like to invite all my white students to get together and discuss the challenges they may face. . . . However, the time slipped by and I didn’t get a chance. So, I would like to ask if you are interested in a get together on Monday afternoon. We can also discuss the exam that is coming up. I don’t mind if this would turn out to be a study session for my WHITE STUDENTS ONLY.

    Are you outraged and disgusted by this blatantly racist invitation? Of course, you are. Though given that it issued from an institution with the words “Texas” and “Christian” in its name, perhaps you are not surprised. What else can you expect from so tainted a source?

    Except, that is not exactly how the bulletin read. The professor really did offer an invitation to some, and only some, of his students, and the invitation was race-based. But the original email extended the invitation not to white students, but to “STUDENTS OF COLOR ONLY.” Do you find that your feelings of outrage and disgust are noticeably diminished? Are you busy searching for an explanation, an extenuation, an excuse? Just asking.

    If holding up a sign that says WHITE LIVES MATTER is racist, then holding up a sign that says BLACK LIVES MATTER is also racist...

    For those who are steeped in and part and parcel to REALITY.... It can be no other way...

    It can't be made any simpler than that...

  21. [21] 
    Michale wrote:

    It can't be made any simpler than that...

    Although, I will spend the entire day trying to do just that..

    Make it simpler til ya'all understand the facts and reality of the here and now..

  22. [22] 
    Michale wrote:

    Back in 1970, Daniel Patrick Moynihan, then serving as a domestic advisor to President Nixon, wrote a memorandum about race relations in the United States. “[A] great deal of the crime, the fire setting, the rampant school violence, and other such phenomenon in the black community have become quasi­ politicized,” Moynihan noted. “Hatred—revenge—against whites is now an acceptable excuse for doing what might have been done anyway.” Noting the great economic and social strides that blacks had made in recent decades, Moynihan suggested that

    The time may have come when the issue of race could benefit from a period of “benign neglect.” The subject has been too much talked about. The forum has been too much taken over to hysterics, paranoids, and boodlers on all sides. We may need a period in which Negro progress continues and racial rhetoric fades. The administration can help bring this about by paying close attention to such progress—as we are doing—while seeking to avoid situations in which extremists of either race are given opportunities for martyr­dom, heroics, histrionics or whatever.

    Moynihan was a liberal who came to despair of what had become of liberalism. Much to his chagrin, the gargantuan—and gargantuanly expensive—social programs enacted to end poverty and lift blacks into the middle class and self-sufficiency had backfired by creating an enormous apparatus of government dependency.

    As James Q. Wilson observed, the War on Poverty did not end poverty, it institutionalized it by providing incentives for infantilization. Commenting on Moynihan’s legacy, the social critic Fred Siegel noted that Moynihan’s advocacy of liberal openness “was blocked by an architecture of indignation built not on evidence, as Moynihan understood it, but rather on what Shelby Steele calls ‘poetic truths,’ which insist, among other things, on the persistence of racial repression. The new shape-shifting structures of micro-oppression (and microaggression) guarantee explanations for why blacks are still held back by white subjugation, even as the symbols of that oppression—such as ‘hands up, don’t shoot’—have to be manufactured out of whole cloth.”

    And there is the reality of today's alleged "racism".. It is borne of a lie.. A complete fabrication of events and intents that simply did not occur...

    "It's a lie. A fantasy we create about people and places as we'd like them to be.."
    -Charlene I'VE NEVER BEEN TO ME

    "Hands Up! Don't Shoot!!"

    A lie...

    "I can't breathe"

    A lie...

    EVERY thing that is prompting the crooks and the terrorists and the scumbags and the cop killers and the murderers and the looters to kill and destroy???

    IT'S ALL A LIE!!! IT DID NOT HAPPEN!!!

    As I am wont to do, I must once again point out that this is a REALITY based forum...

    And the reality of all of what is occurring in the here and now is based on a lie... On several lies..

    Once again, it almost can't be made any simpler....

    If there is a flaw in my logic or my facts...???

    "Well, I am all ears."
    -Ross Perot, 1992 Presidential Debates

    Just bring facts to yer rebuttal... That's all I ask...

  23. [23] 
    Michale wrote:

    How it is that racism got installed as the crime of crimes is a deep question which is unanswerable not least because we cannot even pose it seriously as a question, at least not in any of those institutions supposedly devoted to ferreting out the truth. Nevertheless, the noxious activities of Racism, Inc.—from the shake-down tactics of Black Lives Matter and Antifa to the academic sport of manufacturing racist incidents on campus—remind us of a profound observation made by the philosopher Sidney Hook.

    “As morally offensive as is the expression of racism wherever it is found,” Hook wrote,

    a false charge of racism is equally offensive, perhaps even more so, because the consequences of a false charge of racism enable an authentic racist to conceal his racism by exploiting the loose way the term is used to cover up his actions. The same is true of a false charge of sexism or anti-Semitism. This is the lesson we should all have learned from the days of Senator Joseph McCarthy. Because of his false and irresponsible charges of communism against liberals, socialists, and others among his critics, many communists and agents of communist influence sought to pass themselves off as Jeffersonian democrats or merely idealistic tenured radicals reformers.

    Hook wrote that several decades ago. We have yet to catch up to it.

    Yep.. A false charge of racism is more insidious because it undermines the very fabric of what makes "racism" such a bad thing and a thing to be avoided..

    "Death, destruction, disease, horror. That's what war is all about, Anan. That's what makes it a thing to be avoided. You've made it neat and painless. So neat and painless, you've had no reason to stop it. And you've had it for five hundred years."
    -Captain James T Kirk, STAR TREK A Taste Of Armageddon

    False claims of racism cheapens actual racism. It de-sensitizes the masses to the claim of racism... The horror and societal destruction of REAL racism is ripped away to be replaced with a sense of status quo or indifference when REAL racism actually occurs..

    For every Jussie Smollet or Tawana Brawley or Trayvon Martin or Michael Brown or Sam Duboes or Eric Garner or George Floyd or Journo-List, there are real incidents of racism that might now be overlooked or not believed.. Simply lumped in with the Smollets or the Martins or the Floyds or the Journo-List.

    "Ho hum, another false claim of racism.. YYYAAAWWWNNNNNN What's for dinner??"

    Today's racism is the classic Aesop Fable of the boy who cried wolf...

    Again, if there is a flaw in my logic or my facts, by all means.. Bring it...

    But come with facts.. Not hysterical emotionalizm or Party bigotry...

    "I'm done with THIS guy...."
    -Joe Pesci, MY COUSIN VINNY

  24. [24] 
    Michale wrote:

    An open letter to a protester from a Baltimore County police officer | COMMENTARY

    We might sit down over coffee, and I would start by telling you that I have done a lot of good things in my short 5-year career. I was the first officer on the scene for a call at a college campus where a delusional person was wandering the halls of a dormitory with a gun. In that incident, we found the person responsible just as he was about to commit a sexual assault.

    A few months ago, I went to a call for shots fired, ran after an armed person in the dark, and caught him with the help of my partners. A few weeks ago, I was part of a group of officers that caught an “armed and dangerous” murderer after a high-speed pursuit. In all of these incidents, no one was hurt. And none of them were on the news.

    My interest is not to criticize the media, but simply to point out that for every negative news story involving the police, there are thousands of positive stories that proceed normally, without incident, and without recognition.
    https://www.baltimoresun.com/opinion/op-ed/bs-ed-op-0603-letter-cop-protester-20200603-vzznpesjw5fu3p3fwrkxhja3cq-story.html

    This is exactly the problem with the current state of the Media and those who blindly, pavlovian follow the Media...

    At BEST, they pick and choose the facts they will report on.. The facts that further their agenda...

    At worst, they simply make shit up...

    Unfortunately, we have seen a LOT more "worse" from the Media in the past 4+ years....

  25. [25] 
    Michale wrote:

    My interest is not to criticize the media, but simply to point out that for every negative news story involving the police, there are thousands of positive stories that proceed normally, without incident, and without recognition.

    This bears repeating.. It actually needs to be shouted from all the rooftops of the world..

    And then think about what your world would be like if you couldn't call the cops to assist you??

    Your crazy ex-boyfriend is trying to kick down your door and he has a gun..

    Your options??? Make an appointment with a social worker or phone a friend..

    What kind of frak'ed up choice is that!!

    CW, it is my fervent hope and desire that you do a commentary on this Defund The Police BS emanating from the Democrat Party... I know, I know.. By asking for it, I probably made it LESS likely.. heh

    But I am willing to risk it, as if this movement grows any more and the Democrat Party SERIOUSLY gets on board the DEFUND THE COPS train and Democrats actually win in Nov??

    You can kiss this country goodbye...

    It'll be a day in Gotham and The Joker has just rolled into town...

    And it won't be the Ceaser Romero Joker or the Jared Leto Joker..

    It will be the Joaquin Phoenix Joker or the Heath Ledger Joker...

  26. [26] 
    Michale wrote:

    I would tell you my stories of doing good deeds. I have saved one life directly, and many others indirectly. I have given out many, many warnings when I could have given out citations. I have let people go home when I could have taken them to jail. Every year, I spend hundreds of dollars of my own money buying food for the hungry, transportation for the stranded and shelter for the homeless.

    I might tell you about the time I paid the towing fee to get a DUI suspect’s car out of the tow yard after discovering that his impairment was mostly due to an undiagnosed brain injury. There have been a handful of times where I nearly shot someone, but didn’t, and mere milliseconds made the difference. I have never been accused of excessive force or brutality, and I make an effort to stay composed, even when people spit in my face or worse. More recently, even after someone coughed on me repeatedly while telling me that he wanted me to die from coronavirus, I stayed composed.

    I would explain to you that not losing my temper is one small part of my job, as is the ideal of being superhuman. For any personality trait, I’m expected to know the exact range between two extremes, and I’m expected to know exactly how much of it to apply, and exactly when.

    I would offer to take you on a ride-along and show you that my job is incredibly difficult. I have to record every single thing I do on camera, thereby subjecting myself to criticism from anyone and everyone, including myself. I have to be everywhere, all the time, and I have to be everything to everyone, immediately and perfectly.

    I would tell you these things not to garner sympathy, but to provide you with insight into that which you might not see. I would do this to illustrate that most police officers are good people like me. I would explain how part of me cringes at the comment that I’m “one of the good ones,” as if I’m the exception to the rule. Because the truth is, I represent the norm.

    And there are the facts... 99.99% of all cops are good decent public servants who would lay down their lives to save those that would just turn around and spit on them or worse.. Kill them...

    In the almost 16 years here in Weigantia, in all of the police shootings that has been discussed in these pages (and there are plenty.. Hundreds, I would say) there have only been TWO times where the cops deserved to be fired and/or prosecuted.. One was a case in SC. I don't recall the specifics but the officer was caught planting a weapon. I don't really the other..

    HUNDREDS of cases and only 2 were actually legitimately bad cops.. I am sure ya'll can do the math on that...

    And, because of that .01% of bad cops, Democrats want to disband **ALL** POLICE... EVERYWHERE!!???

    Would someone please explain to me the logic of that position?? Because, from where I sit, as a person who has been there and done that for over 2 decades, the "logic" is simply non-existent....

  27. [27] 
    Michale wrote:

    I would be tempted to point out statistical realities to support this point, but numbers never seem to hold any gravity when compared to the raw footage of a bad cop making a bad decision. And the sad fact of the matter is, I am one person, and my range of control doesn’t extend very far beyond my own decisions. But I do what I can, and I try to lead by example. Still, I can’t possibly account for the actions of the 800,000 police officers in this country.

    Most, like me, strive for good. Some, being merely human, make mistakes. Others, demonstrably sociopathic, commit ugly, abhorrent crimes for which they should be imprisoned. I would point out that all institutions evolve over time, whether it’s religion, government, or law enforcement. While institutional change in the criminal justice system is needed, I would suggest that one does not need to demonize “THE” police as a whole to achieve that end. Cops are not all the same.

    Not all black people are criminals.. Not all cops are racist sociopaths...

    But it's undeniable that there are more bad black Americans than there are bad cops..

    In 2018, Blacks were responsible for 53 percent of the homicides and 60 percent of the robberies in the United States, though they represent only 13 percent of the population.

    This is not racist.. This is fact...

    Of the black Americans who die every year, 96% of them are killed by other black Americans.. .08% of those are killed by cops. And, with very very VERY few exceptions, all of those were justified use of deadly force..

    Once again.. Not racist.. FACT...

    I am actually surprised I have to explain this to everyone here...

    The ONLY reason this Hate The Cops mentality is a thing is because of rampant hysterical emotionalizm and manipulation by those who have an Anti America agenda...

  28. [28] 
    Michale wrote:

    I would ask that you judge me not by my uniform, but by the content of my character. I would point out that “us versus them” thinking is always bad, no matter which side you’re on. My patrol shift is remarkably diverse, and I am biracial. These demographic trends toward diversity in my department coincide with an overall shift in police culture, directed toward de-escalation and service to the community. I acknowledge that while my department may be ahead of the curve, my narrow experience isn’t necessarily indicative of the status quo. You and I would agree that law enforcement can be improved, and we could ponder about how things might look if there were no budgetary constraints at all. If only we could attain the selectivity and educational rigor of an Ivy League school, the yearslong training of a doctor, the insight of a cultural anthropologist and the broadened mindset of a philosopher.

    Judging by the content of their character, rather than the color of their skin or uniform..

    What a beautiful concept, eh???

    Let's take stock, shall we..

    George Floyd?? Judged by the color of his skin..

    Michael Brown?? Judged by the color of his skin..

    Eric Garner?? Judged by the color of his skin..

    Sam Duboes?? Judged by the color of his skin..

    Trayvon Martin?? Judged by the color of his skin.. George Zimmerman?? A good friend.. Made into a "White Hispanic" in a LAUGHABLE and obvious attempt to interject race into an incident that had no racial component...

    The list goes on and on...

    NONE of the afore mentioned incidents had ANYTHING to do with race..

    NONE... ZERO... ZILCH... NADA...

    Exhibit A in the case of the Democrat Party trying to create racism where none exists...

  29. [29] 
    Michale wrote:

    With a sigh, I would lament with you that progress itself never comes as quickly or as completely as it should. I would describe how disheartening and strange it is to be hated by the very people for whom I risk life and limb to protect. I could tell you about my permanent back injury, and all of the other times I’ve been assaulted and injured. I might tell you what it’s like to attend a police funeral. To fight and die for a populace who ignores you, or worse yet, hates you, engenders a lot of doubt, but it also speaks to a remarkable quality of character. This is what weighs on me most heavily, and it is an added layer of confusion that rests on top of the daily barrage of human-to-human ugliness to which I must bear witness.

    If those that hate on and spit on and KILL cops could walk a day in their shoes...

    It would be an eye-opener...

    "Being a cop.. It's not what we do, it's who we ARE!!"
    -James Woods, THE HARD WAY

  30. [30] 
    Michale wrote:

    Civilized society can’t exist without rules, and the people to enforce those rules. Someone has to take the point, and go out in front. Someone has to do it. And so if it must be done, it should be done right. Doing the job right demands a set of people with a deeply-set inscription of ideals, like integrity and personal sacrifice.

    It is evident to me that one of the ingredients that causes the arc of history to bend toward justice is sacrifice. I choose to suffer for the benefit of the whole because that is the task that best suits my disposition. I break my back by pulling the weeds and hauling the water and tilling the garden of our society, all so that plants may grow.

    I would implore you to see that we are both disgusted by bad cops. I would suggest that because we both believe in and demand things like equality and justice, you and I are not so different, and I am not your enemy. And because we both want the same things, there does not have to be so much darkness between us. We both want to see positive change for humanity, and so we look toward the light at the end of the tunnel.

    If people could talk TO each other instead of talking AT each other and not willing to forgo the hate and bigotry, everything, actual progress can be made...

    But as long as we continue along this path, people will still be fighting the law...

    And the law will continue to win...

  31. [31] 
    Michale wrote:

    Minneapolis City Council president aspires to have a 'police free society'

    The president of the Minneapolis City Council, who went viral for saying that calling the police when your home is broken into “comes from a place of privilege,” has said she wants a “police-free society.”

    Speaking on CNN’s "Cuomo Prime Time" Monday night, Lisa Bender took the idea of disbanding the police a step further.

    Host Chris Cuomo told her: “When you say you see someday being police-free that sounds aspirational, a utopian concept where nobody’s committing any crime, because as long as these communities are being preyed upon, both from within and without, there’s gonna have to be good men and women willing to step up to keep people safe.”

    She replied: “I think the idea of having a police-free future is very aspirational, and I am willing to stand with community members who are asking us to think of that as the goal.”

    During the interview, Cuomo challenged Bender on the notion of getting rid of the police, something the host said “seems ridiculous to people”.

    She replied: "We've looked at every reason that folks call 911. Why are people in Minneapolis calling for help? And we're starting to pair what's the right response to those calls. In the short term that helps our police officers focus on the work that they're trained to do, while we have a better response to people who have a mental health crisis or a physical health crisis.”
    https://www.foxnews.com/media/minneapolis-city-council-president-police-free-society

    People are calling 911 because they are being preyed upon by scumbags, murderers, thieves and rapists..

    DUH...

    Can I assume from ya'all's silence that you agree with a completely police-free society..

    Please explain to me how, exactly, that would work??

    "Anyone?? Anyone??? Beuhler???"
    -Principal, FERRIS BUEHLER'S DAY OFF

  32. [32] 
    Don Harris wrote:

    Liz- FPC (130)-
    No, no, NO?

    Why, why, WHY?

    One Demand is an idea. I have laid out in detail many reasons how it could work and why CW should inform citizens about One Demand.

    Why should citizens not be informed about One Demand?

    Why should CW not write about One Demand when I have demonstrated that it meets the same criteria that he uses to justify writing about other issues/ideas?

    We've been down the guest author path before. CW would not even confirm if he received my guest author submission.

    Why should it be a one time only thing that requires others here to agree with me to be discussed in the comments?

    Why is my opinion on this issue/idea only allowed one time or only if others agree with my opinion(s)?

    I have no positive capital with CW?

    That hasn't stopped him from writing about Trump despite Trump having no positive capital with CW.

    Don't forget that when I first got here in 2015 CW was writing about how Bernie could do what most said he could not do and how all ideas should be considered and discussed.

    That changed once Hillary won the nomination.

    How exactly am I supposed to point out when CW refuses to consider and discuss One Demand and won't tell me why in a manner that will create positive capital with CW?

    Whether or not One Demand needs to change to ultimately be effective is something to be discussed.
    You seem to think it should be scrapped altogether and replaced with a new strategy/tactics.

    I think it should be entered into the public discourse as it is and let it develop from there.

    So far the only other strategy that has been proposed is continuing to do the same things that haven't worked for decades.

    Why should we scrap an idea/approach that has not been tried or discussed in the public discourse and that recent election trends are moving in the direction of and not scrap the approach that has failed for decades?

    I am a citizen and have offered an idea that could help improve our political process.

    Why should there be anything more required for the idea to be entered into the public discourse?

    Why should CW not meet his journalistic responsibility to inform citizens about this idea?

    Why should CW be able to keep promoting the lie that there are no other choices when there is another choice?

    Why should I not be allowed to point that out?

    Rodger Goodell just released a statement that the NFL should have listened and responded to the concerns of black players sooner and promised to do better going forward.

    Why isn't it time for CW to to do the same for One Demand? (Even if it is only doing better going forward)

  33. [33] 
    Michale wrote:

    Why isn't it time for CW to to do the same for One Demand? (Even if it is only doing better going forward)

    Oh!!! OH!!! I know!! PICK ME!!! I know!!!! OH!!! OH!!!

    :D

  34. [34] 
    Michale wrote:

    And in the FUNNY BECAUSE IT'S TRUE department...

    http://sjfm.us/pics/BuzzWoody.jpg

    :D

  35. [35] 
    Michale wrote:

    Pandering at it's most insidious..

    ‘Africans Are Not Children’: Democrats Face Backlash From Black Voices Over Political Stunt

    Democrats faced intense backlash on Monday over a political stunt that they pulled in an attempt to show solidarity with the black community over death of George Floyd.

    House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-CA), Senate Minority Leader Charles Schumer (D-NY), and other top Democrats took at knee at Capitol Hill while wearing Kente cloth, which, as noted by The Washington Post, “comes from Ghana, where people wear it to show patriotism or celebrate a special occasion.”

    The photo-op moment for Democrats quickly went viral online — but not in a good way, as numerous people from the black community mocked and criticized Democrats for their political stunt.

    Army combat veteran Jeffrey A Dove Jr., a Republican running in Virginia’s 10th Congressional District, responded: “Does wearing kente cloth and taking a knee mean you are all of a sudden ‘down with the struggle’? This is why people hate disingenuous politicians. Speaker Pelosi was there for the 94 crime bill. She is part of the problem.”
    https://www.dailywire.com/news/africans-are-not-children-democrats-face-backlash-from-blacks-over-political-stunt?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=benshapiro

    No wonder black Americans are leaving the Democrat Party by the millions...

    For decades, the Democrat Party has taken the black vote for granted.. The Party's goal was to keep black Americans down and dependent on Democrats... The plantation may have changed, but Democrats are still enslaving black Americans..

    Black Americans are waking up...

  36. [36] 
    Michale wrote:

    “I was just looking online today like most of you and what did I see? A bunch of Democrat politicians kneeling down, of which I have nothing to say about that because I am not an American, however, they were all having around their necks this colorful fabric which I’m sure they put around their necks as some kind of mark or show of unity or solidarity with black people. So, in other words, they put in for the Kente material or this colorful fabric they had around their necks as some kind of placating sign or symbol to show that they are not racist and they are together with black people.

    Excuse me, dear Democrats, in your tokenism, you didn’t wait to find out that this thing that you’re hanging around your neck is not just some African uniform, it’s actually the Kente material. The Kente belongs to the Ghanaian people, mainly the Ashanti Tribe. Excuse me, Democrats. Don’t treat Africans like we’re children. These fabrics and these colorful things that we have within our culture and tradition, they all mean something to us. I know you look at us and you say, ‘oh Africans are so cute in all your colorful dresses....’

    Well, some of those dresses and patterns and colors and fabrics actually do mean something to us. Some of them belong to ancient tribes and mean something to them. So why are you using it your own show of non-racism or your own show of virtue? Why are you using the Kente material to signal your virtue? Stop it. We are not children. Africans are not children. And leave our tradition and our culture to us and if you don’t know much about it, ask somebody. I’m sure there would have been something else you could have done to show your solidarity with black people instead of taking the Kente material and making a little show of it.”
    -Pro-life Advocate Obianuju Ekeocha

    Nothing like blatantly pandering in virtue-signaling and PROVING that Democrats don't have clue one as to what black Americans are all about...

    Democrats pander ignorantly with phony virtue-signaling...

    President Trump gives black Americans JOBS....

    The choice is clear in Nov...

  37. [37] 
    Michale wrote:

    “I know we are in unexpected times and anything is possible but listen man I did not have ‘Pelosi in Kente cloth’ on the bingo card. I was so certain that picture wasn’t real at first that I didn’t even bother to look for proof in either direction. I just mumbled ‘damn people on here are getting real good at photoshop’ and kept moving along.”
    -GEN editor Hanif Abdurraqib

    Democrats..

    Grabbing defeat from the jaws of victory once again... :D

  38. [38] 
    John M wrote:

    [104] ListenWhenYouHear wrote:

    I feel like I have to respond to this from yesterday's previous thread:

    "Wait, you disagree that Floyd could have been experiencing his heart attack prior to encountering the police and then tell us how you ignored yours and were able to go into work. Hmmmm...”clammy, sweating...shaking, having difficulty breathing and in pain”... that sounds a lot like how you might describe how George Floyd looked in the video. Questions:"

    And the amount of time between when I left for work and was laying prostrate across a table was a total of two hours or less. In fact, it was probably not even an hour. Not the hours and hours that you suggested Floyd might have experienced. Also, people who are claustrophobic or have asthma attacks, among other things, (which are triggered by external factors) have similar symptoms too, correct?

    "You experienced those things without a police officer with his knee on the back of your neck?"

    Yes, but then my question to you becomes: How much worse would my condition have been if I had experienced someone pressing their body weight on the back of my neck at the same time? Also, what would have been my outcome if they either did not realize the severity of my condition or simply decided to either delay or not render any medical assistance at all, or chose not to ameliorate my condition in any way?

    "What did you do that day that, if you had not done it, could have allowed you to avoid having your heart attack?"

    If I had gone directly to the hospital or called the paramedics immediately, instead of going to work, at the first sign of any discomfort, they might have been able to inject me with a clot dissolving medication and I could have avoided the experience of a full blown heart attack all together. Remember also, unlike most people, it took a considerable amount of time for it to show up on my EKG, which was normal when I first got to the hospital. It was my symptoms and blood chemistry that showed I was having an attack, the exact opposite of what most people experience. Most people have the wonky EKG first, then their blood work follows. I had the wonky blood work first, then an abnormal EKG followed afterwards.

    "My point was that we know his cause of death was cardiopulmonary arrest, so demonstrating how the officer’s actions were solely responsible for causing him to die is not going to be easy."

    From my understanding, it doesn't have to be the sole cause of death, correct? It only has to be a contributing factor to result in either manslaughter or murder. Just like if a person dies while a felony is taking place, you can be charged with murder, even if you were not the one who pulled the trigger yourself, right??

  39. [39] 
    Michale wrote:

    “I’m Black and I don’t even own that thing on their necks that supposedly represents Blackness. Also, I hate how Democrats always pretend that they have never had a chance to fix USA when they’ve been in government too.”
    -Bulelani Mfaco

    Person makes a good point..

    What did Democrats do for black Americans when they had total control over the government???

    President Trump did more for black Americans than Democrats have done in decades...

    This is undeniable....

    Black Americans to the Democrat Party....

    "What have you done for me lately??"
    -Janet Jackson

  40. [40] 
    Michale wrote:

    JM,

    Yes, but then my question to you becomes: How much worse would my condition have been if I had experienced someone pressing their body weight on the back of my neck at the same time?

    Honestly?? Not a darn bit worse... The exact reason these techniques are used and taught is because they are non lethal and have no lasting effects..

    From my understanding, it doesn't have to be the sole cause of death, correct? It only has to be a contributing factor to result in either manslaughter or murder. Just like if a person dies while a felony is taking place, you can be charged with murder, even if you were not the one who pulled the trigger yourself, right??

    The problem with that train of thought is that you think it's happening in a vacuum...

    It's not..

    Those techniques are taught at Police Academies nationwide...

    Why??

    Because they are: A> Effective B> Non Lethal and C> Have No Lasting Effects

    If this ever goes to trial, which it's likely it won't... There is simply no way that Chauvin can be convicted...

    This will basically follow the Darren Wilson model..

    A quick charge to appease the mob, dragged out over months to allow for cooler heads to prevail and then a quiet dismissal..

    You watch...

    That's what we're gonna see...

  41. [41] 
    John M wrote:

    For Michale:

    Defund the police does NOT mean abolish or eliminate the police all together. That is a scare tactic and total misreading of what is being advocated.

    Even the police will agree with this: Why should they be the ones to be called and used as the first response in a social worker capacity? If you call 911 for help with an overdose, or a homeless or mentally ill person on the street or wellness check, or a family domestic fight, why should your 911 call be limited to only: fire, ambulance, or a person with a gun and a badge? Is that really the best use of limited resources?

    What about dispatching a professionally trained mental health professional instead, or someone similar, as a first response instead? Especially when you KNOW you are not dealing with a break in, armed intruder, etc.?

    Local police departments in many cases eat up one third of a city's entire budget. Why not redirect a slice of that to after school programs to get wandering youth off the street? To provide more homeless shelter beds? To provide more drug rehab centers? ETC?

    That's the point that is trying to be made with the simple catchy slogan "defund the police"

    It's a cry for an alternative to let's give the police a hammer (military style equipment) and treat everything with the same response as if it were a nail.

  42. [42] 
    John M wrote:

    [40] Michale wrote:

    "Because they are: A> Effective B> Non Lethal and C> Have No Lasting Effects"

    Michale. Get real here. I am having a heart attack, laying on the ground, obviously in distress. You pin me down, and do nothing else. Just lightly hold me in place while I die. There is video evidence of this. Do you seriously think it would not be justified to charge you with at least SOME type of crime in my death???

  43. [43] 
    nypoet22 wrote:

    @m [24-30],

    i posted a link to that article a couple days ago. agree completely with the content of the article. not so much with your editorial asides.
    ;)
    JL

  44. [44] 
    Michale wrote:

    JM,

    Defund the police does NOT mean abolish or eliminate the police all together. That is a scare tactic and total misreading of what is being advocated.

    Not factually accurate.. Read all the media reports coming out of Minneapolis...

    "Defund The Police" IS exactly about abolishing and eliminating the police..

    It's unequivocal...

    Even the police will agree with this: Why should they be the ones to be called and used as the first response in a social worker capacity? If you call 911 for help with an overdose, or a homeless or mentally ill person on the street or wellness check, or a family domestic fight, why should your 911 call be limited to only: fire, ambulance, or a person with a gun and a badge? Is that really the best use of limited resources?

    Agree to disagree.. If a woman has her ex at the door with a gun, the need for police is obvious..

    It's a cry for an alternative to let's give the police a hammer (military style equipment) and treat everything with the same response as if it were a nail.

    I am sure that is what you WANT to believe by way of responding to my comments.

    But the FACTS clearly show that those people advocating to defund the police want to eliminate cops..

    To think otherwise is to ignore the facts and ignore reality...

    Do you seriously think it would not be justified to charge you with at least SOME type of crime in my death???

    Yes..

    I'll give you a real life "fer instance"..

    Rolled up on a shooting one day.. 2 people down and the gunman had two holes in his head from responding officers.. Me and one other.. The VERY first thing I did, even before checking the status of the other victims is I grabbed the dead guys arms and cuffed them behind his back..

    Standard police procedure.. Russ can back me up on that.. Do you know how many times cops have been killed by perps they thought were dead or incapacitated??

    Dozens.. if not hundreds...

    If I have a perp who looks like he is having a heart attack when I am 10-8, I am still going to cuff him..

    ANY cop would do the same..

    As I said.. SOP...

  45. [45] 
    Michale wrote:

    JL,

    i posted a link to that article a couple days ago. agree completely with the content of the article. not so much with your editorial asides.
    ;)
    JL

    THERE YOU ARE!!!

    I was getting worried that I was in some alternate reality where I loved cats and there was no JL in Weigantia!! :D

    As to the article, it's the content that is important..

    Now tell me honestly... Are there ANY Democrats you can point to (besides you, of course) who would be willing to listen to this officer and meet him halfway???

    Please... Point them out... :D

    Good ta see ya!! Don't scare me like that!! :D

  46. [46] 
    Michale wrote:

    JM,

    Gonna try to avoid being snarky... Wish me luck.. :D

    Defund the police’ wrests support from politicians coast-to-coast – and steamrolls holdouts

    In the wake of George Floyd's death, calls to "defund the police" have in a matter of days escalated from a fringe campaign to a celebrity-backed cause to part of the municipal mainstream -- and now appear primed to spur official action, to varying degrees, in cities across the country.

    The stunning momentum behind the movement has fueled Republican criticism that "radical" ideas are being readily embraced by Democrats.

    On the ground, however, there is a visible conflict between Democrats on board with "defund" and those who want to seek reforms without actually dismantling police departments. This split, and the sudden power that activists wield over local officials on the issue, was perhaps best illustrated over the weekend when Minneapolis Mayor Jacob Frey faced a crowd of protesters asking him whether he would support abolishing the city's police department.

    Frey, while promising reform to the city's "systemically racist" policing system and saying "the police union needs to be put in its place," was asked a "yes or no" question by a protester if he would "commit to defunding the Minneapolis Police Department."

    "We don't want no more police," the woman questioning him continued. "Is that clear? We don't want people with guns toting around in our communities, shooting us down."

    "I do not support the abolition" of the police department, Frey said.

    He was immediately shouted down. "Get the f--- out of here," the protester responded as others loudly booed Frey, who later reiterated his commitment to reforming the department, despite saying he would not dismantle it entirely.
    https://www.foxnews.com/politics/defund-the-police-wrests-support-from-politicians-coast-to-coast-and-steamrolls-holdouts

    You see? Democrats aren't using "DEFUND THE POLICE" as a metaphor or anything..

    They are actually talking about disbanding police forces...

    "We don't want no more police," the woman questioning him continued. "Is that clear? We don't want people with guns toting around in our communities, shooting us down."

    "Yea!!! *WE* want to be the ones with the guns and gunning down our OWN people and gunning down cops without police interference!!!!!"

    So, now that we know that "DEFUND THE POLICE" is NOT a metaphor, that it actually means disbanding PDs and SOs...

    What are your thoughts???

  47. [47] 
    Michale wrote:

    So, now that we know that "DEFUND THE POLICE" is NOT a metaphor, that it actually means disbanding PDs and SOs...

    What are your thoughts???

    Would you agree that it is moronic, totally stoopid and completely unworkable in a civilized society???

  48. [48] 
    Michale wrote:

    Would you agree that it is moronic, totally stoopid and completely unworkable in a civilized society???

    You see what I am doing here??

    I am trying to find common ground that we ALL can agree on...

    What's more noble than that?? :D

  49. [49] 
    John M wrote:

    [46] Michale wrote:

    "We don't want no more police," the woman questioning him continued. "Is that clear? We don't want people with guns toting around in our communities, shooting us down."

    I don't have a lot of time to respond right now, as I have to get to work. But this shows very starkly something that apparently should be so obvious but yet still needs pointing out to you:

    1) How much work that is on the onus of the police to do themselves in order to win back the trust, support and cooperation of the community they are supposed to serve, protect and work for, if the the police are not to become an occupying hostile force.

    2) How much it does not matter in the least whether you think the police are racist or not. The important perception is that the community at large that the police are located in thinks that they are racist. And that is on the police to solve and correct that perception of them. It's not the fault of the community, it is the fault of the police, rightly or wrongly, that is what people who support them with their tax dollars think.

  50. [50] 
    Michale wrote:

    Ignoring for the moment that this has nothing to do with defunding/disbanding police....

    1) How much work that is on the onus of the police to do themselves in order to win back the trust, support and cooperation of the community they are supposed to serve, protect and work for, if the the police are not to become an occupying hostile force.

    Absolutely none...

    Think about it..

    The **ONLY** reason that this is an issue is because Floyd is black.. If Floyd had been white, Officer Chauvin would have ended his shift, stop off at the bar on the way home for a beer with his buddies and then called it a day...

    Unless you are advocating that cops treat black people different than white people, IE with kid gloves or simply ignore the law breaking (which I am constrained to point out is blatant racism, which I understand we're supposed to be against) you simply CANNOT "plan" or "train" for something like this...

    Let me be clear.. Officer Chauvin did EVERYTHING right.. Did EVERYTHING according to the book and police SOP..

    That's the point ya'all are missing.. Unless you want to change the ENTIRE dynamic and/or process of Law Enforcement, there is NOTHING that can be done because this time around NOTHING wrong was done..

    So, if you are advocating treating black criminals different than white criminals then we can end this discussion right now and simply agree to disagree..

    If you are NOT advocating treating black criminals different, then by all means.. Clarify exactly what you are advocating..

    The important perception is that the community at large that the police are located in thinks that they are racist

    Not factually accurate. A small minority of very loud people THINK that cops are racist.. Emphasis on the "think"s because no one can offer any FACTS to support their claim..

    It's not the fault of the community, it is the fault of the police, rightly or wrongly, that is what people who support them with their tax dollars think.

    And that is where you are wrong.. It IS the fault of the community because they can't comprehend that, even though Floyd died, the cops, each and every one of them, DID NOT DO ANYTHING WRONG...

    Until and unless you can understand that simple single fact, there will never be a solution...

    And, as I have mentioned before, it's VERY EASY to **PROVE** beyond ANY doubt that I am factually accurate about the cops not doing anything wrong..

    If Floyd had been white, ***NOTHING*** would have been said.. NO ONE here would even KNOW the name George Floyd... NONE of ya'all would be pointing the finger at Officer Chauvin or any other cop...

    So, if the cops did NOTHING wrong if Floyd was white, then LOGIC and RATIONAL THOUGHT, not to mention reality, DEMANDS the verdict that the cops did NOTHING wrong when Floyd is black...

    "Simple logic"
    -Admiral James T. Kirk

    Again, if there is a flaw in my argument, by all means.. Someone jump in and point it out..

  51. [51] 
    Michale wrote:

    Citrus Heights Homes Displaying American Flags Targeted By Arsonists
    https://sacramento.cbslocal.com/2020/06/08/citrus-heights-homes-american-flags-arson/

    Is there anyone who DOESN'T believe that a real shooting civil war is in the works???

    That's why I pointed out that the vast majority of Americans do NOT think the police is racist..

    It's only a very small, yet vocal, minority of Democrat terrorists who think that cops are racist...

  52. [52] 
    MtnCaddy wrote:

    [15]

    Michale wrote:

    And the mark I have left on this forum continues on... :D

    Um, yeah...kinda like syphilis

  53. [53] 
    Michale wrote:

    "And then there's herpes.. You keep that shit forever. Like luggage.."
    -Eddie Murphy, DELERIOUS

    :D

  54. [54] 
    Kick wrote:

    Mike
    12

    Those aren't causes of death which is what we were discussing. Those are place holders that will be replaced with the 4 types of death when the facts become available...

    Wrong again. Thank you again so much for volunteering the ever-present and obvious dearth of your self-proclaimed "expertise." There are limitations to what an autopsy can answer and times when circumstances surrounding a death are unable to be determined by a coroner/medical examiner/forensics so the "Cause of Death" is designated "Undetermined." An "Undetermined" classification of "Cause of Death" is definitely not a "place holder." I will give you "Pending," though, which is a designator wherein an Amendment follows.

    "Of course you can PROVE that, right!?? Oh yea, that's right.. I forgot.. You were absent the day they taught LAW and law school!!"

    No, moron. I believe you were likely absent the day I already posted the findings of the Hennepin County Medical Examiner, and as per usual, you forever seem terminally incapable of actually locating information on the Internet that is splashed all over every website from here to Hell... "proof" that's readily available to those capable of not needing to be spoon-fed everything like the gullible right-wing conspiracy nut brigade who are placated with a steady diet of conspiracy theory bullshit because being that's infinitely easier than actually showing some initiative and thinking for yourself. :)

  55. [55] 
    Kick wrote:

    Mike
    14

    I see no evidence in the data whatsoever to date that Trump is winning back the 'burbs that were lost in the midterms. On the contrary, Trump's support is further eroding with the continued loss of educated men, older voters, and the "woman gap" is growing ever larger.

    It's important to note that you practically said the exact same thing in 2016 and yet, President Trump still kicked Hillary's ass..

    It's important to note that you're full of shit since I would have made no comment whatsoever about "winning back the 'burbs that were lost in the midterms" since they were the 2018 midterms that occurred multiple years thereafter. Dipshit.

    I would have thought ALL of ya'all would be gun shy about devoting yourselves to polls again... Once bitten and all that, eh? :D

    You "would have thought," but you obviously didn't think because that would actually require having a functioning brain capable of concepts like history and time.

    Ahh well, makes me no never mind.. Will just make my celebrations on the evening of 3 Nov that much sweeter.. :D

  56. [56] 
    Kick wrote:

    ^^^ EDIT ^^^

    Ahh well, makes me no never mind..

    Like I said, no mind... never did.

    Will just make my celebrations on the evening of 3 Nov that much sweeter.. :D

    In your dreams. :)

  57. [57] 
    Michale wrote:

    Regardless of all the previous discussion, JM et al are missing the actual question..

    I am not asking if the relatively few hysterical Democrats are serious about defunding/disbanding the police..

    That question is resolved as YES... It is clear that, factually speaking, Democrats are serious about defunding/disbanding the police..

    The question put before JM et al is a much simpler question..

    DO you AGREE with the actions of defunding/disbanding PDs and SOs across the country... Do you think that PDs and SOs should be defunded and/or disbanded...

    It's a simple question..

    YES or NO...

  58. [58] 
    Michale wrote:

    I see no evidence in the data whatsoever to date that Trump is winning back the 'burbs that were lost in the midterms. On the contrary, Trump's support is further eroding with the continued loss of educated men, older voters, and the "woman gap" is growing ever large

    Yea.. You said much the same thing in 2016 and the run-up to November of 2016...

    Remind me again what exactly happened next??

    Victoria, you can quote all the polls and all your gut feelings all you want, all day until the cows come home..

    But when all is said and done, you are simply repeating and regurgitating what you said in 2016 and you were wrong then and I was factually accurate..

    November 2020 is not going to be any different.. :D

  59. [59] 
    Kick wrote:

    Mike
    18|19|20

    Please stop posting these entirely lifted articles from the Right-Wing Nutosphere and publishing them on another man's forum.

    Publishing another person's work on CW's blog is just flat out rude and inconsiderate, and you've been asked repeatedly to stop doing it. Thank you.

    Not

  60. [60] 
    Michale wrote:

    Publishing another person's work on CW's blog is just flat out rude and inconsiderate, and you've been asked repeatedly to stop doing it.

    Only by you... And with the UTMOST er.. "respect".. "D

    Take a flying leap.. :D

    "I run my unit how I run my unit!!"
    -Colonel Nathan R Jessup, A FEW GOOD MEN

  61. [61] 
    Michale wrote:

    As you have told Liz so rudely so many times..

    "This blog is not yours to police"..

    So, Victoria?? Kindly stuff thyself.. :D

    "Physician, stuff thyself"
    -Captain James T Kirk, STAR TREK, My Enemy, My Ally

    I say that with all the kindness and sincerity I can muster.. :D

    "I dunno.. I can imagine quite a bit.."
    -Han Solo, STAR WARS, A New Hope

    :D

  62. [62] 
    Michale wrote:

    NFL Players Should Think Hard Before They Take A Knee

    With the George Floyd protests and riots, feelings and emotions have inevitably diverged with statistical fact more than ever. The narrative is rammed down our throats at a rapid rate, while the statistical data is inevitably more complex and requires part of an afternoon to digest. In the age of high-octane social media, part of an afternoon is no longer on the table.

    So as this battle over Floyd is fought — although in reality, it’s a unanimous agreement, not a battle at all — the sub-battles of the culture war ensue. One of these battles is our great national anthem.

    The anthem has been a topic of contention since Colin Kaepernick took a knee. Fortunately, nothing too crazy followed. Some players took knees, many did not, and most of America moved on with life.

    But now, as passions are hot, the left has decided to get some “woke contracts” signed ASAP. One of them directly asks players to declare if they too will kneel for the national anthem.

    Drew Brees recently gave one of the most eloquent answers on this topic, declaring what our anthem means to him and honoring his family. His explanation was nonpartisan and from his heart, and it was going to help pave the way for his team and many others to follow suit with pride. Less than 24 hours later, the thought police attacked him, and he released an immediate apology. His “taking a knee contract” has now been signed, and you had better believe he will be kneeling from here on out.
    https://thefederalist.com/2020/06/06/nfl-players-should-think-hard-before-they-take-a-knee/

    Despite the milquetoast "damage control" by his wife (would LOVE to be a fly on THEIR wall.. :D hehehe) Drew Brees was classy and said it perfectly..

    Anyone who disrespects the flag or the anthem has no business playing NFL Football....

  63. [63] 
    Michale wrote:

    You see conservatives like George W. Bush falling into the trap and contributing to the rhetorical nonsense of our “nation’s disturbing bigotry and exploitation.” This short-sighted strategy to gain unity and ease tension is really a long-term infliction of damage that only reinforces the false media narrative, which seems to have no end.

    The last two weeks have exhausted us emotionally. It’s easy just to capitulate and say the words that make the leftists happy. Is the anthem the hill we really want to die on? Yes, it is.

    Not only does kneeling for the anthem have its own symbolic importance for the heroes and defenders of our great nation, but another issue is at stake here: The kneeling is for police brutality-related deaths in the black community, which in 2019 resulted in exactly nine deaths of unarmed black men within a black population of 30 million.

    No matter how you feel about that number, do you ever really think it will get lower or go away, given there are 375,000 interactions with police every year? Do you think with human error and the occasional outlying bad actor that number could ever possibly drop to zero?

    Here’s a message to NFL players facing this decision: If you fear the media blowback for not declaring now that you’ll take a knee, just think how much press you will get hammered with if you declare you will take the knee and decide later you want your national anthem back. You will have signed a deal with the devil, and you will be on that knee the rest of your career. Think very hard about this decision.

    Emotions are high, and kneeling now is very tempting. We all just want to be good people, and we are being told this is the way. Just know this: Once you kneel, you will never get up again. Do not give up on our national anthem.

    Any player who kneels will have to deal with the constant demands of the hysterical Left and keep upping the ante to bigger and more utterly ridiculous and Anti-America depths...

    Better to be your own man NOW than to have to live as a slave to the Anti-America Anti-Cop hateful and bigoted whims of the Hysterical Left Wingery...

  64. [64] 
    Michale wrote:

    BRB Have ta put the burgers on the barbie.. :D

  65. [65] 
    Kick wrote:

    Mike
    58

    Yea.. You said much the same thing in 2016 and the run-up to November of 2016...

    Do you need it repeated that I wasn't talking about the 2018 midterms in 2016 or are you quite content to demonstrate your ever-present ignorance on a repetitive basis as if you can't grasp a simple concept?

    Remind me again what exactly happened next??

    Why bother? You've proven you have no concept of time.

    Victoria, you can quote all the polls and all your gut feelings all you want, all day until the cows come home..

    Okay, let's review:

    * I didn't quote any poll in that comment.
    * I didn't say anything about "gut feelings" in that comment.
    * Not all Texans are cattle ranchers.

    But when all is said and done, you are simply repeating and regurgitating what you said in 2016 and you were wrong then and I was factually accurate..

    My comment discussed the events that occurred in the 2018 midterms, which I definitely was not discussing in 2016. It would take a special kind of stupid to claim I was discussing data from 2018 in November 2016 that didn't exist at the time, yet you seem quite determined to volunteer your stupidity on a daily, monthly, and yearly basis.

    November 2020 is not going to be any different.. :D

    So you're terminally stuck on stupid... got it. :)

  66. [66] 
    Michale wrote:

    Welp, as they say... It's been real and it's been fun..

    Time for BBQ burgers and season 2 of the Canadian show, BURDEN OF TRUTH with my beautiful trophy wife!! :D

    See ya'all in the AM..

    "Hasta lasagna, don't get any on ya!!"
    -Emilio Estevez, MISSION IMPOSSIBLE

    :D

  67. [67] 
    Kick wrote:

    Mike
    61

    As you have told Liz so rudely so many times..

    "This blog is not yours to police"..

    Another fake quote from Mike. #SSDD

    Also, my comments to Liz are in regards to her censorship of the language of other commenters while she's posted and continues to post similar language in an entitled manner... so "epic fail" on your comparison.

    Your re-publishing of entire articles requires permission from the author and in some cases permission from the company for which the writer is employed/works freelance.

    So, Victoria?? Kindly stuff thyself.. :D

    Nah. I'll leave that behavior to dumb asses like yourself.

    I say that with all the kindness and sincerity I can muster.. :D

    Whatever.

    Your continued republishing of entire articles without permission of the author/company that owns them is a legal issue that you continue to practice on another man's blog... making him potentially liable for your continuing to do it when you've been asked by him and other commenters to stop doing it.

    Not just rude to other commenters to republish, it's a legal issue you're foisting on CW.

  68. [68] 
    Kick wrote:

    Mike

    You need it spoon-fed?

    If you'd like to post a link to another article or site, you can do so easily, just by pasting it in (on its own separate line). Say you read an article that fits in with the discussion. Rather than copying and pasting the whole text of the article in as a comment (which is technically illegal if the article is copyrighted, and is severely frowned upon here, for wasting database space), you can just post a link to the article. ~ Chris Weigant

    http://www.chrisweigant.com/commenting-tips/

    Your continued republishing of copyrighted materials on his blog is not only rude to the other commenters and against his long-posted rules, it also subjects him personally to legal liability.

  69. [69] 
    MtnCaddy wrote:

    [18]

    Michale wrote:

    A great plague is upon the land, and we must all respond with displays of ritual purification and groveling obedience.

    Yeah we wouldn't want to interfere with every Americans to do whatever the fuck they want, right?

    My bad.

  70. [70] 
    Elizabeth Miller wrote:

    Michale,

    Anyone who disrespects the flag or the anthem has no business playing NFL Football....

    Well, I love Drew Brees and he can do no wrong in my book, anything I would admit to in public, anyways …

    But, what he said about the flag in the first instance is not at all ad odds with his apology in this sense - you can respect the flag by kneeling in protest against something that the flag of the USA does not stand for, or fly for, as the case may be, no?

  71. [71] 
    MtnCaddy wrote:

    [18]

    Like the word “heretic” in an earlier age, “racism” is more weapon than word.

    From time to time I agree with you, Michale, and this is partially one of those times. My understanding of Enlish is that "racism" is, in fact, a word.

    Where I agree with you is that racism is... a weapon. A weapon used against Native Americans, blacks, Hispanics, Chinese laborers etc.

    Why the heck do you think our Nation (including lots of non racist white folk) are now rising up against this stain on America's honor? Duh.

    Has OAN somehow convinced you that this is somehow all in your imagination? If so I'd respectfully suggest that you don't make any important decisions without consulting a trusted friend for a second opinion.

  72. [72] 
    MtnCaddy wrote:

    [24]

    My interest is not to criticize the media, but simply to point out that for every negative news story involving the police, there are thousands of positive stories that proceed normally, without incident, and without recognition.

    For the record I fully agree with this statement. Furthermore I am staunchly opposed to youthfully silly calls to abolish ICE and disband local, county, statewide and national law enforcement. Without ICE we have no borders, and without law enforcement we have no civilization.

    But there are some cops that should not be cops, period. Although in past times I've had some negative experiences with these "Nazi Cowboy" types, to this day I'll wave over an officer to thank him for his critical role in my enjoyment of "life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. JSYK, Michale.

    [We now return you to our regularly scheduled disagreeing with Michale]

  73. [73] 
    MtnCaddy wrote:

    [26]

    Michale wrote:

    I would tell you my stories of doing good deeds. I have saved one life directly, and many others indirectly. I have given out many, many warnings when I could have given out citations. I have let people go home when I could have taken them to jail. Every year, I spend hundreds of dollars of my own money buying food for the hungry, transportation for the stranded and shelter for the homeless.

    I might tell you about the time I paid the towing fee to get a DUI suspect’s car out of the tow yard after discovering that his impairment was mostly due to an undiagnosed brain injury. There have been a handful of times where I nearly shot someone, but didn’t, and mere milliseconds made the difference. I have never been accused of excessive force or brutality, and I make an effort to stay composed, even when people spit in my face or worse. More recently, even after someone coughed on me repeatedly while telling me that he wanted me to die from coronavirus, I stayed composed.

    Now that's the Michale that I thought you are. So what I don't get is why a quality American public servant such as yourself could fall in love such a amoral Douche-bag such as Trump. His character (and competence) is sooo antithetical to yours!

    Oh, I forgot: otherwise upstanding folks like you suffer from Trump Derangement Syndrome. I suppose that's because he's got an "R" next to his name.

    From Vet to Vet and from Citizen to Citizen, I sincerely thank you for your (ongoing) service.

    P.S. Please don't tell my Comrades that I said this -- they'll surely take advantage of me!????

  74. [74] 
    MtnCaddy wrote:

    [30]

    I break my back by pulling the weeds and hauling the water and tilling the garden of our society, all so that plants may grow.

    Awwww. That's beautiful, man. I may disagree with your politics but I still gotta call a spade a spade when you say things like that (Duh-Oh! "Call a spade a spade?" What-just-what was I thinking? Now the PC Police will be bagging on me!)

    I am a Loud and Proud Libtard but there's two things I hate(d) about Liberalism, and that's forced school bussing (look it up, Puppydog) and especially Political Correctness.

  75. [75] 
    MtnCaddy wrote:

    As you can tell I'm reading and commenting one comment it a time, Michale, so these words are my reaction as I go along.

  76. [76] 
    MtnCaddy wrote:

    Michale I finished reading this comments and I'm too exhausted from slinging dope at the Junior High School to comment anymore tonight.

    When you've got a moment would you please tell me what your reasons are for posting here. I meant every kind word I stated above and this inquiry is entirely sincere! Trust me -- Im in sales!

    Is it to persuade? To not at all persuade but to troll/annoy? To both persuade and annoy?

    I think it would be fun to watch the election returns with you in November, to argue/chortle/laugh together over a couple brewskies and some BBQ Tri-tip. Just as long as we agree to leave the 9mms out of the picture.

    (thinking)
    Man, I can't believe I just said that...
    (shaking my head)
    Man, I've gotta stop "getting high on my own supply."

    Ciao, Baby.

  77. [77] 
    MtnCaddy wrote:

    Thanks to one and all, starting and ending with you, Mr. Weigant. I truly enjoy this place!

  78. [78] 
    nypoet22 wrote:

    @m,

    i live in the national epicenter of the pandemic and have a 2-week old infant, so my blog time is pretty limited at the moment

    ;-)

    JL

  79. [79] 
    ListenWhenYouHear wrote:

    JL,

    If I missed your announcement of your baby in an earlier, let me just wish you and your wife my most heartfelt Congratulations! I pray all of you stay healthy during these first days of your child’s life. I cannot imagine the joy that they bring you.

    Russ

  80. [80] 
    ListenWhenYouHear wrote:

    Michale,

    Much to his chagrin, the gargantuan—and gargantuanly expensive—social programs enacted to end poverty and lift blacks into the middle class and self-sufficiency had backfired by creating an enormous apparatus of government dependency.

    Except that those social programs were enacted to combat poverty that affects all races... they were not created specifically for blacks. Which is a good thing, seeing how poor whites make up the largest group of recipients.

    Fun note: military families continue to be one of the fast growing groups seeking the government’s assistance in order to feed their families. It’s a real shame that Trump was lying to the troops he visited two Xmas’ ago when he promised them that he had fought hard and had secured them huge pay increases.

    And it is a myth that government assistance has led to large numbers of people refusing to work and just living off their government assistance. Any dependency on government assistance is better explained by the federal minimum wage rate remaining unchanged despite the increase in the cost of living every year.

  81. [81] 
    Kick wrote:

    Russ is correct, of course.

    The vast majority of welfare goes to poor whites. You wouldn't know that by listening to the right-wing echo chamber because they repeatedly perpetuate their racist tropes ad nauseam to the gullible right-wing poor whites in order to keep them frothy and enraged about the "others" taking what they believe they are entitled to by virtue of their skin color.

    The perpetuation of these racist tropes regarding "black Americans" is commonly referred to as "white grievance," and it's the right-wing's bread and butter.

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