ChrisWeigant.com

Biden, Trump, And The Fonz

[ Posted Wednesday, September 4th, 2019 – 16:56 UTC ]

I'm going to begin today's column with an extremely dated pop culture reference, just to warn everyone. The show Happy Days was historic for many reasons, but the only one anyone really remembers today is the contribution of a metaphor for "going on longer than it really should have." When faced with something that fits this description (a television show, a politician, just about any fad, etc.), the go-to phrase has now become "it has jumped the shark." I have no idea how many people who use this phrase saw the original Happy Days episode where Fonzie did actually jump over a shark on water skis, but the phrase now lives independently of its television origin in American idiom. But there's one other Happy Days theme that should worry us all, because the two politicians leading the race for president both seem to be afflicted by it. I speak of the inability of the Fonz to ever use the word "wrong" when applied to himself. He just couldn't say "I was wrong," no matter how hard he tried. This was played as a comedy bit, but while it was funny on television it's not such a laughing matter in the real world of politics.

President Donald Trump, who will almost surely be nominated by the Republican Party for a second term, obviously has the same problem Fonzie did. He cannot ever admit that he was wrong about anything, even when the obvious evidence shows that he was, in fact, incorrect. Since Trump is incorrect about so many things (on an hourly basis, at times), we keep seeing this play out over and over again. Trump will say or tweet something monstrously stupid or laughably wrong, and then when his error is pointed out to him he insists that he was in fact right, and that everyone else and all the contradictory facts and data are what is actually wrong.

He tried to gaslight the country once again today, this time on whether Hurricane Dorian had ever threatened Alabama. It didn't, but Trump said it did so he's now in full-on gaslighting mode. After Trump tweeted this error out, the federal departments responsible for providing real facts to the public about the weather immediately corrected him by pointing out that Alabama is not in danger of being hit by the hurricane, and indeed never was.

This obviously enraged Trump, who set out to prove that he was right, by altering reality. Or attempting to, at any rate. Trump gave a briefing in the Oval Office and hauled out a chart showing a very early prediction of where the hurricane could go. You can tell it's a very early chart because it shows the "cone" of possible movement hitting Florida square-on. Such predictions were altered many days ago, when the meteorologists changed their prediction to show the hurricane not hitting Florida at all, and instead skirting the southeastern coast up to the Carolinas.

But the truly laughable part was that someone -- either Trump or some Trump toady trying to bend reality to Our Dear Leader's proclamations -- had taken a Sharpie pen to the map and drawn in an extra loop onto the cone of possible storm tracks, so that a tiny slice of Alabama was included. The alteration was so poorly done that it was hilarious to think Trump thought he could pull this wool over anyone's eyes. The map wasn't altered by computer. This was no hastily Photoshopped image. It only took five seconds for someone (someone with tiny hands, perhaps?) to draw the extra loop directly onto the printed-out map.

Journalists immediately noticed the alteration, and have been trying to get N.O.A.A., who produced the original map, to comment. Eerily, it has referred all such queries to the White House. These are supposed to be scientists, and they are knuckling under to politics. That is downright shameful. Especially since there's an actual federal law making it illegal to alter any official weather map and present this false information to the public.

To review the timeline: Trump tweeted something that just wasn't true. Instead of immediately correcting it ("Turns out I was wrong, Alabama won't be hit by Dorian at all"), Trump then doubled down on his gaffe. He then tried to alter everyone's reality by drawing (or having someone draw) a fake storm track on an old map so that Alabama was indeed threatened at some point by Dorian. The White House continues to cover up for Trump, by strongarming the weather services into staying silent on Trump's lie. Fonzie would be so proud!

That's just one tiny example out of hundreds and hundreds to choose from, even just from the past few months. Trump cannot ever admit he's wrong, even when all the evidence shows that he's just making things up out of whole cloth. That's a dangerous and worrisome trait in a national leader.

Which brings me to the man currently leading the race to replace Trump, Joe Biden. Now, much has been made about Biden's gaffes, but what concerns me isn't so much Biden's misstatements ("Biden being Biden"), but rather his insistence that he was never wrong in the first place. Biden has almost as hard a time admitting error as Trump. Even when the evidence of such errors is presented to him. That is also worrisome, or it should be. Much more than the gaffes themselves.

I don't buy the storyline that Biden's gaffes are signs that he's aging and somehow (to some degree or another) losing his mind. I say this because of Biden's long track record of such gaffes, which stretches decades into the past. In other words, Biden's always done this, even when he was a lot younger than he now is. So I just don't buy that it is now a sign of mental deterioration. Again, it's really just Biden being Biden, and so far that's precisely what the voters think too. None of his gaffes has caused his poll numbers to sag one tiny bit, no matter how many breathless stories run in the mainstream media about them.

I also don't have too much problem with the current gaffe Biden is being raked over the coals for. He told a war story, and while he got literally almost every detail wrong, the core message at the heart of the story was indeed correct -- Biden pinned a medal on a soldier who really didn't want it because he thought he didn't deserve being decorated for trying to save another soldier who died. That part is absolutely true, and the soldier in question backed up Biden's version of the story. This was the heart of the story itself, and not the guy's rank, the medal he received, or any of the other details Biden got wrong. So Biden got all the minor stuff wrong but the major point of the story is just as valid and just as emotionally poignant.

But when Biden was confronted by the errors, he refused to take the graceful way out by just admitting he had creatively edited a few things in the telling of the story. He could have easily done so ("Look, I may have misspoke about some meaningless details, but that is a true story and I think it deserves being heard"), but instead he refused to, and asked: "What did I say that was wrong?"

This isn't the only time Biden has refused to just issue a mea culpa and move on. Biden's chummy remarks about working with segregationists and his stance on busing school children also led to Biden insisting that his version of reality was the only one anyone should accept. Biden even gets rather testy about such denials, just like Trump does.

To me, this is the most worrisome thing. It's not the gaffes themselves, which can be excused. It's not the fact that Biden doesn't accurately remember details, or has changed his recollection of such details to make them sound better today. It's his insistence that he is right even when he is obviously not.

That is a worrisome trait in a politician. We're already living with a president who tries to forcibly alter reality to match his own delusions, and it isn't pretty. Alabama was never in danger from Hurricane Dorian, but that isn't going to stop Trump from insisting that it was, even when he has to hastily edit a map to reflect his own erroneous statement. That's downright Orwellian: "Who controls the past controls the future. Who controls the present controls the past." Trump's now got his own Ministry of Truth scrambling to prove his lies, which is absolutely frightening when you consider that these are supposed to be scientists devoted to the truth.

Joe Biden keeps saying he wants to take the country back to normalcy once again. He considers Trump an aberration in American politics, and says he can return us to a time when such things were considered abnormal. To do so fully, though, he's got to also return us to a time when the truth was the truth, and when politicians regularly admitted when they got something wrong. Doubling-down on obvious mistakes and gaslighting the public to get them to believe untruths is part and parcel of what the country needs to get away from. All it would take is for Biden to just come right out and say the words Fonzie never could: "I was wrong, and I'm sorry for my mistake."

-- Chris Weigant

 

Follow Chris on Twitter: @ChrisWeigant

 

67 Comments on “Biden, Trump, And The Fonz”

  1. [1] 
    Balthasar wrote:

    I think he'd like to, but can't. I know that sounds like a cop-out, but, honestly, once you start apologizing, when can you stop? At what point then, would they allow you to stop?

    Quoting Stephen Colbert: "Biden's got one thing going for him: he's not Donald Trump."

  2. [2] 
    Don Harris wrote:

    Isn't it time to admit that the big money two party charade is another example of jumping the shark and inform citizens aboot One Demand?

    Oh wait. Then you might have to admit you were wrong.

    But it would at least provide citizens the opportunity to say to the big money politicians and interests
    "Listen here, Bucko..."

  3. [3] 
    Elizabeth Miller wrote:

    If Biden is to be criticized. then go at it.

    But, can we please omit the ridiculous comparisons to Trump?

  4. [4] 
    Elizabeth Miller wrote:

    The next time Biden gets compared to Trump, let's take a good long look at what's in each of their hearts and minds, shall we.

  5. [5] 
    Elizabeth Miller wrote:

    Okay, I'm done here.

  6. [6] 
    Elizabeth Miller wrote:

    Oh, I'm sorry, maybe it's just not humanly possible to criticize Biden without saying he's the same as Trump ??

  7. [7] 
    dsws wrote:

    People have similarities as well as differences.
    It's ok to notice them. For example, Bidenn and Trump are both at an age where each year brings a non-trivial chance of death. So is my preferred candidate, Elizabeth Warren. That particular example jumped out at me, because the odds of Trump getting the nomination are so close to certainty that that's probably the biggest source of doubt.

  8. [8] 
    Elizabeth Miller wrote:

    My rather simple point - Trump should not be spoken about in the same sentence or paragraph or book, for God's sake, with Biden or any other Democrat in the country.

    Comparisons involve similarities and differences, of course. Me beef with this column is that it mistakenly put Biden in the universe that houses Trump.

  9. [9] 
    nypoet22 wrote:

    They're also both men in their 70s. Coincidence?

  10. [10] 
    Elizabeth Miller wrote:

    Irrelevance. But you know that.

  11. [11] 
    nypoet22 wrote:

    they both probably also watched the fonz on tv. i dunno liz, it seems pretty damning...

  12. [12] 
    Elizabeth Miller wrote:

    Let's have some pie.

  13. [13] 
    John M wrote:

    "He cannot ever admit that he was wrong about anything, even when the obvious evidence shows that he was, in fact, incorrect. Since Trump is incorrect about so many things (on an hourly basis, at times), we keep seeing this play out over and over again. Trump will say or tweet something monstrously stupid or laughably wrong, and then when his error is pointed out to him he insists that he was in fact right, and that everyone else and all the contradictory facts and data are what is actually wrong."

    Sounds EXACTLY like Michale.

    You know what they say about character. If someone will lie about the small things, then they will have no pause about lying abut the big things that really matter.

    The point, LIZ, is if they get something wrong, and then can't admit they were wrong and correct their mistake, whether they are Trump OR Biden OR ANY POLITICIAN running for PRESIDENT ( which is what they have in COMMON and CAN be COMPARED ABOUT ) then that puts the USA in a very dangerous position when it comes to life or death situations.

    Hurricane Dorian's path is LITERALLY a life or death situation for millions of Americans which DEMANDS complete accurate, truthful information from the American government at ALL times.

    This is what makes what Trump did not only ILLEGAL but so egregious. He put millions of American lives at stake for nothing more than this own ego's vanity. Is this what we want to really tolerate from a U.S. president???

  14. [14] 
    Kick wrote:

    Oh, I see the problem here.

    We're now EQUATING Biden's gaffes with Trump's:

    * Disparaging bullshit
    * Intentional deception
    * Self-serving fiction
    * Pathological lying
    * Gaslighting

  15. [15] 
    Kick wrote:

    Balthasar
    1

    I think he'd like to, but can't. I know that sounds like a cop-out, but, honestly, once you start apologizing, when can you stop?

    No, it doesn't sound like a "cop-out" at all. You're exactly right, Balthy, and stating the "sad but true."

    As an example, one of the leading Democratic candidates who has done a fair amount of apologizing and "explaining" is Elizabeth Warren. While "Lefties" generally love this type of admission and absolution, there are many "Moderates" and "Righties" who see apologies as admissions of guilt.

    Has it perchance occurred to anyone that Warren's multiple apologies regarding her past claims of Native American ancestry leaves her open to charges of dishonesty on multiple levels? They'll claim she's admitted she lied about her entire life, her heritage, and claim she invented all manner of things that they'll fabricate out of nothing but her admission/apology.

    While that "apology" thing works quite well with the progressive "Left," there are a whole lot of "Moderates" who might see her as just another Harvard "elitist" who cheated the so-called "system" and now wants to raise your taxes so the other cheaters can get all kinds of socialist free stuff. Does she or does she not "have a plan for that"?

    At what point then, would they allow you to stop?

    They won't. They'll claim you've admitted whatever shit they'll make up about you regardless of whether or not it's true. They'll take a candidate's strength and turn it into a weakness; Elizabeth Warren's having a "plan for that" will be turned inside out. She'll be branded as the cheater with a plan to help cheaters cheat.

    Now, to those who believe I am picking on Elizabeth Warren, you're wrong. She's just the candidate apologizing. They'll do the exact same thing to any candidate; it's what they repeatedly do.

  16. [16] 
    Michale wrote:

    I also don't have too much problem with the current gaffe Biden is being raked over the coals for. He told a war story, and while he got literally almost every detail wrong, the core message at the heart of the story was indeed correct --

    ALL war stories are bullshit.. Even the true ones.. ESPECIALLY the true ones..

    Anyone who has served in the US military knows this..

    ALL war stories are bullshit..

  17. [17] 
    Michale wrote:

    That is a worrisome trait in a politician. We're already living with a president who tries to forcibly alter reality to match his own delusions, and it isn't pretty.

    We already lived thru a President like that..

    Barack Hussein Obama

    And yer right.. It wasn't pretty..

  18. [18] 
    Michale wrote:

    . To do so fully, though, he's got to also return us to a time when the truth was the truth,

    And Democrats are ALL about "truth".. Not facts..

    But here's the kicker.. Democrats are all about ONLY their "truth"...

    "THEIR TRUTH IS NOT YOUR TRUTH!!!"
    -Oracle of Yonada, STAR TREKK

  19. [19] 
    Michale wrote:

    I think he'd like to, but can't. I know that sounds like a cop-out, but, honestly, once you start apologizing, when can you stop? At what point then, would they allow you to stop?

    Common campaign fact..

    If yer explaining, yer losing..

  20. [20] 
    Michale wrote:

    Quoting Stephen Colbert: "Biden's got one thing going for him: he's not Donald Trump."

    The problem for you Democrats is that there are 22 (23?? 24?? 19?? Haven't been paying any attention..) other candidates who can make the exact same claim...

  21. [21] 
    Michale wrote:

    @Liz,

    If Biden is to be criticized. then go at it.

    But, can we please omit the ridiculous comparisons to Trump?

    Not as ridiculous as comparing President Trump to Hitler.. Something each and everyone here has done or condoned at one time or another in the last 4 years..

    It's my understanding that Hitler ordered the brutal murder and butchery of 6 million jews..

    If anyone think President Trump is even in the SAME GALAXY as that sort of evil??

    Well, they need their frakin' head examined...

    I'm just sayin'..

  22. [22] 
    Michale wrote:

    they both probably also watched the fonz on tv. i dunno liz, it seems pretty damning...

    NOW yer just pushing Liz's buttons.. :D

  23. [23] 
    Michale wrote:

    Did you miss me, JM?? :D

    Sounds EXACTLY like Michale.

    Yes, it does...

    If you ignore ALL facts and ALL reality, it sounds exactly like me, eh? :D

  24. [24] 
    Don Harris wrote:

    Liz-
    Why should we stop comparing Biden to Trump?

    Isn't that Biden's entire campaign?

    But let's examine what is in both their hearts and minds- working for the big money interests to secure the big money contributions.

    That is the major point that everyone seems to ignore while arguing over the meaningless differences.

    Biden wants to return us to the "normalcy" that gave us Trump in the first place.

    CW is right that we need to get away from doubling down on obvious mistakes (like voting for big money candidates) and gaslighting the public to get them to believe untruths (like the big money Dems are an opposition to the big money Republicans when it is really just a good cop/bad cop show to prevent a real opposition to the big money interests).

    And CW doesn't even have to admit he was wrong. He could just write aboot what we can do in the present to try to make it so the future is not a replay of the past.

    And what we can do to achieve that goal is to not support big money corporate Dems like Biden.

  25. [25] 
    Michale wrote:

    Why should we stop comparing Biden to Trump?

    Isn't that Biden's entire campaign?

    "Touche' salesman. Do come in"
    -Homer Simpson

  26. [26] 
    Michale wrote:

    As to President Trump never can admit he is wrong..

    My guess is, it's because he knows that Democrats will skewer him hysterically for every little faux pas...

    If you knew you would be castrated and boiled in oil every time you made the slightest mistake, YOU wouldn't want to admit you were wrong either..

    Apparently, this is a new perspective for Trump.. Because Democrats loved and honored Trump when he had a -D after his name...

    I'm just sayin'....

  27. [27] 
    nypoet22 wrote:

    yeah, that's just how politics in this country works, anyone who admits having been wrong about anything is roasted on a spit. the jerry-rigged alabama hurricane map sounds like a whole new level of it, though.

  28. [28] 
    Michale wrote:

    alabama hurricane map sounds like a whole new level of it, though.

    Not really.. It's silly President Trump tried to pull it off and it's silly that Democrats make so much of it..

    It's right up there with Voffee or whatever it was before..

    That's the problem with Democrats and their hate.. It's not nuanced or analog..

    It's ALL 1000% Fear-mongering Catastrophic Hysteria ALL the time..

    It's a caricature of insane hatred..

  29. [29] 
    nypoet22 wrote:

    dorian killed at least 20 and left a hundred thousand homeless. while not his worst, i wouldn't exactly call donald's lying about its projected path silly. the president shouldn't be telling folks they're about to get hit by a hurricane when they're not.

  30. [30] 
    Don Harris wrote:

    Nypoet-
    "...anyone who admits having been wrong about anything is roasted on a spit."

    No. They are roasted by the false opposition and forgiven by their supporters to distract citizens from paying attention to the real problems such as working for the big money interests to secure big money contributions.

    And that is not how politics works in this country. That is how politics DOESN'T work in this country.

    The jerry-rigged hurricane map is not any kind of new level. It is just more of the same distraction bullshit so citizens can rationalize the irrational decision to support big money candidates from their "team" over the big money candidates from the other "team".

    And the reality is that the Dems and Republicans both do not consider ordinary citizens part of their team and both work for the same team- the big money interests. The Dems and Republicans just consider ordinary citizens to be easily to manipulate marks that will believe how beautiful the emperor's new clothes are.

  31. [31] 
    Michale wrote:

    dorian killed at least 20 and left a hundred thousand homeless. while not his worst, i wouldn't exactly call donald's lying about its projected path silly.

    All the other forecasters "lied" about the path as well.. If you define "lying" as being wrong... Which seems to be the case ONLY when talking about President Trump. :^/

    the president shouldn't be telling folks they're about to get hit by a hurricane when they're not.

    Every forecaster who said Dorian was going to hit Central Florida is guilty of the same thing..

    But they don't have an -R after their names, so .....
    :^/

    Early forecasts had Dorian moving south of FL into the Gulf Of Mexico and did indeed, have FL/MS/AL in the cross hairs..

    President Trump probably caught a glimpse that and that is what stuck with him... Simple explanation..

    No one here bat'ed an eye when Obama was that wrong and even wrong'er..er during his administration...

    That's why I can't get excited when ya'all complain about President Trump.. It just comes across as partisan white noise..

  32. [32] 
    Michale wrote:

    That's why I can't get excited when ya'all complain about President Trump.. It just comes across as partisan white noise.

    So when (if) President Trump does something that's really bad.. REALLY seriously frak'ed up.. no one cares..

    Ya'all epitomize the story of the boy who cried wolf...

  33. [33] 
    Michale wrote:

    The Dems and Republicans just consider ordinary citizens to be easily to manipulate marks that will believe how beautiful the emperor's new clothes are.

    ..... REGARDLESS of whether the Emperor has a -D or a -R after their name...

  34. [34] 
    Michale wrote:

    yeah, that's just how politics in this country works, anyone who admits having been wrong about anything is roasted on a spit.

    The hysteria surrounding Democrats and President Trump is NOT how this country had worked to date... That is NOT "politics as usual"...

    It's 20x worse than the claims Democrats made about the GOP during the Odumbo years...

  35. [35] 
    Michale wrote:

    Remember how ya'all were so hysterical that, 2 years into the Odumbo Administration, McConnell said that the GOP goal was to make Odumbo a 1 term POTUS..

    Oh how ya'all screamed to the high heavens.. Oh how ya'all went to hysterical about it..

    Then Democrats said the exact same thing about President Trump EVEN BEFORE TRUMP TOOK OFFICE.... And THAT was perfectly acceptable to everyone here..

    Like I said.. Nothing but partisan white noise..

  36. [36] 
    Paula wrote:

    Biden may have decided that apologizing looks weak & as Kick noted in [15] repubs will use apologies as fodder for their inevitable distorted dishonest attacks.

    Biden would do himself and all of us a favor if he would exercise more self-discipline and stop being inaccurate in his utterances - although one wonders if he can, even if he wants to.

    It's not good that people have to decide to overlook his mistakes or argue about whether they matter. It's divisive. It weakens him.

    OTOH, there will always be internal squabbles when there are multiple candidates that have to be winnowed down to one.

    I'd just prefer them to be substantive rather than about "character flaws" and behavioral weaknesses.

  37. [37] 
    Michale wrote:

    I'd just prefer them to be substantive rather than about "character flaws" and behavioral weaknesses.

    And yet.. For you, with President Trump, it's ONLY about "character flaws" and "behavioral weaknesses" and NOTHING "substantive"....

    Rather ironic, wouldn't ya say? :D

  38. [38] 
    Balthasar wrote:

    And yet.. For you, with President Trump, it's ONLY about "character flaws" and "behavioral weaknesses" and NOTHING "substantive"....

    Oh, I'd have to disagree with that. With Trump, there are SO MANY substantial policy disagreements that one doesn't know where to start: Gun Policy, Global Warming, Foreign policy, Labor policy, Criminal Justice, Education, just for starters. Were he a perfectly behaved boy, I'd still have issues with him and his party.

    And then on top of it all, the behavioral issues, and lack of normal civility.

    This is why ANY Democrat would be better than Trump!

  39. [39] 
    Michale wrote:

    Oh, I'd have to disagree with that. With Trump, there are SO MANY substantial policy disagreements that one doesn't know where to start:

    And yet, what is 90% of what we hear from ya'all about Trump???

    "Character Flaws" and "Behavorial Weaknesses"...

    Gun Policy,

    Really?? You mean like the Gun Policy where President Trump has suggested that Social Media be part of a background check?? You mean the Gun Policy where even CW credited President Trump with the best gun control policy change since 1994??

    You mean THOSE "gun policies"???

    Criminal Justice,

    You mean, the Criminal Justice policy that gave a second chance at a respectable life to millions of convicted felons??

    You mean THAT criminal justice policy??

    This is why ANY Democrat would be better than Trump!

    Who you kidding, Balthy.. You would vote for Ted Bundy or Charles Manson before you would vote for Trump.. :eyeroll:

  40. [40] 
    Michale wrote:

    I mean, let's face reality, dood.

    If you discarded the hysteria and the hate and the intolerance and the bigotry and really sat down and took a good long OBJECTIVE look at President Trump and his actions and policies....

    I would be willing to wager that you would find more to like than dislike...

    But who are we kidding... Discarding the hate and hysteria and intolerance and bigotry??

    Actually being objective??

    That's just NEVER gonna happen... :^/

  41. [41] 
    Don Harris wrote:

    "This is why ANY Democrat would be better than Trump."

    And getting punched, kicked and scratched is better than being hit with a baseball bat.

    And replacing Trump with a big money corporate Democrat is not only what led to Trump in the first place, but it will lead to a Republican even worse than Trump when (not if) the big money corporate Democrat remains consistent with the historical record of working for the big money interests.

  42. [42] 
    Michale wrote:

    Oopss.. I was wrong..

    CW gave President Trump credit for "the most impressive change in gun law since 1986" not 1994...

    My mistake..

    "That's the most impressive change in gun law since 1986, and -- again, to his credit -- it came from Donald Trump's administration."
    -CW

    I am also constrained to point out that President Trump pushed thru a ban on bump stocks.. It's ridiculous and won't have ANY effect on ANYTHING...

    But is that a gun policy you oppose Balthy?? You WANT people to have access to bump stocks???

    Yer weird...

  43. [43] 
    ListenWhenYouHear wrote:

    Michale,

    Remember how ya'all were so hysterical that, 2 years into the Odumbo Administration, McConnell said that the GOP goal was to make Odumbo a 1 term POTUS..

    Nope. The problem wasn’t what McConnell said — hell, every one says that when the opposing party wins the White House — the problem was how the GOP chose to go about their plan to get rid of Obama. The GOP chose to put getting rid of Obama before everything else — especially offensive was that they put it before the best interests of their constituents! Republicans bragged that the better a piece of legislation would be viewed by most Americans, the harder they had to work to block it from making it to Obama’s desk for him to sign into law. Stop and think about that for a bit.... they did not want Obama to get credit for legislation that THEY knew would be popular/beneficial to most Americans! Because they believed they were going to be successful, and because they wanted credit for getting Romney elected, they boasted about how far they went to get rid of Obama...only to fail at their goal!

    Democrats have at least been willing to work across the aisle to pass legislation for Trump to sign, Republicans did not do that with Obama. Look at how hard the Republicans attack the ACA as being the worst legislation ever while failing to mention that they would have rolled it out as the GOP’s crown jewel piece of legislation if McCain had won the election in 2008! It’s incredibly pathetic that Republicans still claim that the best idea that they could think of is the worst policy ever to be passed.

  44. [44] 
    Michale wrote:

    Nope. The problem wasn’t what McConnell said — hell, every one says that when the opposing party wins the White House — the problem was how the GOP chose to go about their plan to get rid of Obama.

    No, the problem was that McConnell said it and the GOP followed thru with it.

    Ya'all didn't like that and made it out to be some abhorrent policy when it was simply politics..

    Democrats have at least been willing to work across the aisle to pass legislation for Trump to sign,

    For example...???

  45. [45] 
    Michale wrote:

    JL

    We were talking about Dorian forecasters lying above..

    According to Left Wing forecasters, Dorian is inches away from making landfall in SC...

    Yet, real time satellite imagery shows the eye is far FAR off the SC coast...

    Are ya going to castigate the forecasters for "lying" as you castigate Trump for lying??

  46. [46] 
    Michale wrote:

    Don't get me wrong.. President Trump is sometimes full of shit and I condemn him for that just as ya'all do..

    But ya'all don't condemn the Left Wingers that are full of shit and THAT is why your condemnations are taken with a huge grain of salt..

    Because there is no credibility behind the condemnations..

    It's SOLELY politically based..

  47. [47] 
    ListenWhenYouHear wrote:

    But who are we kidding... Discarding the hate and hysteria and intolerance and bigotry??

    Actually being objective??

    Says the guy defending the party whose members overwhelmingly hate ObamaCare, but love the ACA! It’s this kind of “objective reasoning” that made Trump believe he’d have a better chance at getting elected if he ran as a Republican.

  48. [48] 
    ListenWhenYouHear wrote:

    Democrats have at least been willing to work across the aisle to pass legislation for Trump to sign,

    For example...???

    How about when Trump demanded a list of concessions he wanted in exchange for keeping the Dreamers program in place? Pelosi and Schumer were willing to give him what he claimed he needed for his wall, only to turn down their offer and demand more. Trump ended up getting 1/4 of what they had been willing to give him freely if he had only kept his word.

    Don't get me wrong.. President Trump is sometimes full of shit and I condemn him for that just as ya'all do..

    You DO???!!!???

    WHEN? When have you condemned any of Trump’s actions or lies? For those who were lucky enough to witness you condemning Trump, did they openly weep? Did they compare it in awesomeness to seeing their children being borne? I, myself, gave up on this dream long ago. Don’t you go and offer up hope if you know it is false!

  49. [49] 
    ListenWhenYouHear wrote:

    No, the problem was that McConnell said it and the GOP followed thru with it.

    Ya'all didn't like that and made it out to be some abhorrent policy when it was simply politics..

    Voting against the best interests of your constituents is not “some abhorrent policy”, but is “simply politics” to you?!? And it wasn’t just that, Republicans were bragging that they had to work harder to block legislation that they knew would be popular with their constituents; i.e., it benefitted their constituents! Don’t forget, this was when the recession was at its worse and people were losing their jobs, their homes, and losing hope. Try to explain it away all you want, bottom line:

    They intentionally worked to prevent legislation that they admitted to believing was good for our country from passing. They were willing to hurt the country and their constituents to get rid of Obama.

    If that doesn’t meet your definition for what is considered “abhorrent”, what would?

  50. [50] 
    Kick wrote:

    Mike
    20

    Biden's got one thing going for him: He's not Donald Trump. ~ Stephen Colbert

    The problem for you Democrats is that there are 22 (23?? 24?? 19?? Haven't been paying any attention..) other candidates who can make the exact same claim...

    That's not a problem for Democrats; it's a problem for Trump.

  51. [51] 
    ListenWhenYouHear wrote:

    Kick [15]

    Has it perchance occurred to anyone that Warren's multiple apologies regarding her past claims of Native American ancestry leaves her open to charges of dishonesty on multiple levels? They'll claim she's admitted she lied about her entire life, her heritage, and claim she invented all manner of things that they'll fabricate out of nothing but her admission/apology.

    Yes, there will always be some who refuse to be honest, regardless of the subject matter. But for the vast majority of Americans, Warren’s explanation and apology were enough to put the issue to rest.

    Should Obama have apologized for saying that the ACA would not cause people to lose their current plan and that they’d be able to keep their doctors? Did he not know that people like Michale would ignore his explanation and admission to being wrong and would continue to call him a “liar” for saying it? Of course Obama did, but he also knew it was the right thing to do!

    The president, through all of his actions, should be setting an example for all Americans to follow. Obama admitted that he had believed what he said was true when he said it, but then discovered that he had been wrong. Have you ever been wrong? I have; it happens. Had Obama not apologized, then Michale would be correct to call him a liar! Doing the right thing might have costs, but in the long run it is worth it. Those who claim admitting when you are wrong is a sign of weakness are simply mucking forons and should be laughed out of the room!

    People thought Warren was wrong to take the DNA test, I disagree. She knew Trump would attack her for lying about her heritage, and the DNA test proves she was not wrong. Now, she can respond the next time Trump attacks her on this that he called her a liar, so she took the test and has provided the proof that he was wrong! Then she can challenge him to do the same:

    “Trump claims he’s a great businessman who is extremely wealthy, but I think he is lying to America. Show us your tax returns and prove me wrong if you can!”

  52. [52] 
    ListenWhenYouHear wrote:

    If you discarded the hysteria and the hate and the intolerance and the bigotry and really sat down and took a good long OBJECTIVE look at President Trump and his actions and policies....

    There would be nothing to look at! Trump is the source of the hatred, the intolerance, and the bigotry.

    And do you not see how indoctrinated you’ve become to right-wing propaganda?

    I am also constrained to point out that President Trump pushed thru a ban on bump stocks.. It's ridiculous and won't have ANY effect on ANYTHING...

    You point to a gun control policy that Trump signed that people on both sides should agree is for the best, and immediately follow up with NRA “it won’t do any good” claims... diminishing the original point you were trying to make — that Trump has passed some good legislation! You are bashing Trump for passing worthless legislation, and I’m gonna tell him what you said! ;)

  53. [53] 
    Balthasar wrote:

    Michale [39]- Go ahead, put up some of the (bipartisan) bills for us to consider, then I'll put up the raft of bills that won't even make it to the Senate floor. Bump stocks? So what:

    How about we make the damn AR-15's illegal? They serve no useful civilian purpose.

    How about a bill to strengthen our elections? There's been one on Mitch McConnell's doorstep for months.

    And on and on. There's no way that you'll convince me that Republicant policies can cure our ills, much less make them worse. Worse yet, policies are side-stepped in order for nonsense, like the border wall. I've got an idea: how about a comprehensive immigration policy? That'd be unique.

  54. [54] 
    TheStig wrote:

    Kick-15,LWYH-51

    Warren fell afoul of pop culture confusion between genetics (her DNA) ancestory (her family tree) and ethnicity (her culture). If you conflate this triad - by accident or by design, you generate instant heated controversy that cannot be put back in the bottles.

    Warren's genetics support her family tree as understood by her immediate family, but her ethnicity is fundamentally middle class American out of Europe. She knows next to nothing about Native American tribal customs, including oral history, regligious beliefs etc. This is what upsets Tribal critics.

    When it comes to ethnicity, marriages, religious conversions and adoptions can dramatically overide family trees and genetic makeup. Think Moses: ethnic Hebrew to Ethnic Egyptian, and back to Ethnic Hebrew again.

  55. [55] 
    Balthasar wrote:

    She knows next to nothing about Native American tribal customs, including oral history, regligious beliefs etc. This is what upsets Tribal critics.

    Actually, no. In fact her command of tribal issues is lauded by many in the community. Of course, politics plays a role for many.

  56. [56] 
    ListenWhenYouHear wrote:

    TheStig,

    I have never understood how a non-tribal member could be allowed to claim their ethnicity is Native American. (The exception being for former tribal members who have been kicked out by the tribal elders.) Having just said this, I have to wonder what individuals whose tribes are not officially recognized by our government claim as their ethnicity. Can you claim to be a Native American if the BIA says your tribe doesn’t qualify? Your DNA may say you are full blooded Native American, but our government says that you are NOT a tribal member. The triad can get a little fuzzy it seems.

  57. [57] 
    Kick wrote:

    Michale
    21

    Not as ridiculous as comparing President Trump to Hitler.. Something each and everyone here has done or condoned at one time or another in the last 4 years..

    A con artist spewing nationalism and promising to return his country to greatness through his sheer force of will and claiming "I alone can fix it," while at the same time referring to unfavorable press as lying and demonizing the "others" and dehumanizing them by repeatedly referring to them in terms like "infestation" and "invasion" isn't exactly rhetoric the world hasn't witnessed before.

    Those who'd ignore the glaringly obvious similarities in history rather than learn from them are doomed to repeat the stupid shit.

    It's my understanding that Hitler ordered the brutal murder and butchery of 6 million jews..

    If anyone think President Trump is even in the SAME GALAXY as that sort of evil??

    Your strawman argument is an epic fail since no one here has suggested Trump has done that. However, those like yourself who endeavor to minimize/ignore the many ways in which Trump's rhetoric is repetitive of Hitler's script simply because the self-titled "Chosen One" hasn't ordered genocide are missing the big picture.

    Hitler didn't kill millions of Jews on "Day 1" when he rose to power in 1933, and he certainly didn't do it without lots of help from those who bought into his ideology of national and racial superiority. The Nazis started out by passing laws and implementing policies that stigmatized and persecuted many different groups of people that they considered to be "others" and "outsiders" and thus enemies of Germany. Violence against the "others" and their property was on the rise across Germany, and the demonizing and dehumanizing certainly wasn't limited to Jews but also extended to the press, their political opponents, dissenting clergy, homosexuals, blacks, mentally disabled, physically disabled, Gypsies, Jehovah's Witnesses, Slavic peoples, artists whose opinions/work Hitler condemned, and many others.

    So to recap: The beginning of the Holocaust wasn't mass genocide, and it also didn't begin in the gas chambers. The Nazis took power in 1933, and until 1941, their official policy was to encourage the "others" to leave Germany by depriving them of their human rights and making life there increasingly difficult for them via dehumanizing propaganda, the passage of laws that allowed discrimination against certain groups and the roundup, deportation, and internment of the "others." If you weren't part of the quote "master race," you were encouraged to leave the country.

    So anyone who knows the actual history and/or with their head not shoved firmly up their ass is naturally going to see the similarities.

  58. [58] 
    TheStig wrote:

    55-Balthasar

    Warren is a political ally to Native Americans, but as far as
    I know, no tribal band has formally adopted her. That's how it works, a tribe collectively adopts you according to established protocols, not the other way around. Outsiders should respect the distinction.

    56-LWYH

    You can claim it, but you wiil not be recognized as sovereign by US or state governments. It helps to have writen treaties with the United States dating back to the 19th century or earlier.

  59. [59] 
    Kick wrote:

    JL
    27

    yeah, that's just how politics in this country works, anyone who admits having been wrong about anything is roasted on a spit.

    Exactly. You'll get criticized for not apologizing, and then if you do apologize, you'll get further criticized for not doing it correctly to meet a particular "purity" test. It's ridiculous yet reality.

    the jerry-rigged alabama hurricane map sounds like a whole new level of it, though.

    Altering a weather forecast in violation of federal law and obsessing for days via a multitude of tweets and expecting your administration to cover your incorrect forecast is indeed a new level of it.

  60. [60] 
    Kick wrote:

    Don Harris
    30

    The jerry-rigged hurricane map is not any kind of new level. It is just more of the same distraction bullshit so citizens can rationalize the irrational decision to support big money candidates from their "team" over the big money candidates from the other "team".

    Once again, Don: You should divest yourself of the ridiculous notion that the world revolves around Don Harris's invented parameters when almost no one thinks in those terms.

    And the reality is that the Dems and Republicans both do not consider ordinary citizens part of their team and both work for the same team- the big money interests.

    And again you're equating the parties as the same after repeatedly stating you don't do that... and claiming to know what they think as a whole about "ordinary citizens."

    The Dems and Republicans just consider ordinary citizens to be easily to manipulate marks that will believe how beautiful the emperor's new clothes are.

    You've worn out that "emperor's new clothes" bullshit of yours, Don, and that whole lumping of "Dems and Republicans" into one category and claiming they're all out to manipulate the "ordinary citizen" unless they fit into your warped worldview.

    Did it never occur to you that there are "Dems" and "Republicans" who are "ordinary citizens." <--- rhetorical question

    With bullshit statements like that, you need never wonder why no one here spends very much of their time taking your shit seriously... least of all the author of the blog.

  61. [61] 
    Kick wrote:

    Russ
    47

    Says the guy defending the party whose members overwhelmingly hate ObamaCare, but love the ACA! It’s this kind of “objective reasoning” that made Trump believe he’d have a better chance at getting elected if he ran as a Republican.

    Exactly.

  62. [62] 
    Kick wrote:

    Russ
    51

    Yes, there will always be some who refuse to be honest, regardless of the subject matter. But for the vast majority of Americans, Warren’s explanation and apology were enough to put the issue to rest.

    Okay, first off, I'm not arguing against Warren, and I'm not someone who expects my political representatives to be superhuman or pass a purity test of my own invention while whining incessantly that no one is worthy and all elections are "the lesser of two evils." I'm one of those types that expects "humans will be humans" and who never misses a chance to exercise my right to vote for a human to represent me at the local, state, and national levels.

    Now, to answer: That tooth paste isn't going to be easy to put back into the tube. While I agree that Warren's apology was enough to put the issue to rest for the vast majority of so-called "Lefties," I see nothing that she has done to mitigate the entire issue with so-called "Moderates" and so-called "Conservatives" who might consider casting a vote for a Democrat.

    The good news:

    * It's early, and if she's the nominee, she has plenty of time to remedy that.

    * If she is the nominee, there's a high probability that her opponent will be that pathologically lying opportunist, con artist, and Putin Puppet named Donald Trump.

    * The electorate won't take anything for granted this time and will turn out like democracy depends on it... because it does.

    Should Obama have apologized for saying that the ACA would not cause people to lose their current plan and that they’d be able to keep their doctors? Did he not know that people like Michale would ignore his explanation and admission to being wrong and would continue to call him a “liar” for saying it? Of course Obama did, but he also knew it was the right thing to do!

    I'm not judging Warren or Obama or anyone else on whether it is "right or wrong" to apologize for all manner of things... just making a comment on what the "Righties" will do with the "perceived admission of wrongdoing." Remember that Warren's taking the DNA test was roundly criticized at the time by the "Left," and Warren's climb back into contention to become leader of the same Party via her policy wonkishness and multiple "plans for that" have been an exercise in restoring her standing with "Lefties."

    Might the "Moderates" and "Swing Voters" not give a hang about the perceived quality of Warren's good character based upon her detailed policy paper regarding Native Americans? Her apology for her past heritage claims leaves her open to charges of dishonesty regarding the "very core" of "who she is" no matter how you slice and dice it. She was also a conservative when she was a professor in conservative Texas and didn't become a Democrat until 1993 when she became a professor at Harvard.

    Have you ever been wrong?

    Nope... and also... "I will never lie to you." Oh, wait... I just did.

    I have; it happens.

    There goes your political career. ;)

    Had Obama not apologized, then Michale would be correct to call him a liar!

    Everybody is a liar regardless of whether they admit it or not, and trolls like Mike would call Obama a liar anyway and then whine incessantly like little bitches when Donald Trump is rightly called out on his many multiple demonstrable lies per day.

    Doing the right thing might have costs, but in the long run it is worth it.

    Define "long run." ;)

    Those who claim admitting when you are wrong is a sign of weakness are simply mucking forons and should be laughed out of the room!

    Well said, and I generally agree. But I also know that the GOP will use Warren's apology like a very large knife she gifted them herself.

    People thought Warren was wrong to take the DNA test, I disagree. She knew Trump would attack her for lying about her heritage, and the DNA test proves she was not wrong.

    * Donald Trump provided a letter from his personal physician, Dr. Harold Bornstein, stating in part: "If elected, Mr. Trump, I can state unequivocally, will be the healthiest individual ever elected to the presidency"... without so much as him ever having examined the previous 43 men who had occupied the office.

    * Dr. Ronny Jackson gave a briefing to the White House press corps about Donald Trump's health stating: "I told the President that if he had a healthier diet over the last 20 years he might live to be 200 years old."

    Now, she can respond the next time Trump attacks her on this that he called her a liar, so she took the test and has provided the proof that he was wrong!

    Like Obama's providing his long-form birth certificate because of Donald Trump's fabricated attacks on him cleared up that whole "Birther" nonsense. Of course! ;)

    Hugs ----> XXX

  63. [63] 
    Kick wrote:

    TS
    54

    Warren fell afoul of pop culture confusion between genetics (her DNA) ancestry (her family tree) and ethnicity (her culture). If you conflate this triad - by accident or by design, you generate instant heated controversy that cannot be put back in the bottles.

    Only if you're a Democrat. For instance, have you heard a single right wingnut hypocrite excoriating Donald Trump for claiming that his family is from Sweden?

    His story is classic Horatio Alger. Fred Trump was born in New Jersey in 1905. His father, who came here from Sweden as a child, owned a moderately successful restaurant, but he was also a hard liver and a hard drinker, and he died when my father was eleven years old." Donald Trump, The Art of the Deal

    In point of fact, Donald Trump's father, Frederick Trump, wasn't born in New Jersey, he was born in the Bronx, New York, and Trump's father's father arrived in New York City and is listed in immigration records as "Friedr. Trumpf." He was born in Kallstadt, Bavaria in 1869, which became a part of the newly formed German Empire in 1871 when he was a baby. The family's name was Drumpf but was changed by them, and Trump's father Fred denied his family's German heritage and claimed his father was from Karlstad, Sweden rather than Kallstadt, Germany.

    Trump's family denied their German heritage in the 1900s for quite obvious reasons, not the least of which was to deceive the Jewish tenants in the Trump-owned apartment complexes and to get ahead in business in an America where the United States and our allies were at war with the Nazis who were insisting theirs was the "master race" and killing people by the millions.

    If I were Elizabeth Warren, I wouldn't putz around with this heritage issue, I would skewer Trump in his own words from his own book and ask him to regale us all with his and his own Drumpf family's lies regarding their "Swedish" heritage that is actually straight out of Germany. It would be interesting to watch Trump and his minions flailing regarding The Donald's Drumpf family's bullshit that he repeated in writing in his book: Spin that you hypocrites. :)

  64. [64] 
    Michale wrote:

    Says the guy defending the party whose members overwhelmingly hate ObamaCare, but love the ACA!

    And here I have sat for over a decade listening to you people go on and on about how Democrats are better than the Republicans..

    I guess that was all bullshit, eh? :D

    Ya'all are saying NOW that, since the GOP was that way, ya'll get to be that way to..

    OK.. I can accept your Democrats being as silly and has hateful and as hurtful and as intolerant as they accuse Republicans of being.

    Democrats discard the moral high ground they claimed to have held..

    Nice to finally have that admitted..

  65. [65] 
    Michale wrote:

    Bump stocks? So what:

    So, you would have NOT slammed President Trump if he DIDN'T ban bump stocks???

    Com'on dood.. I was born AT night.. Not LAST night..

  66. [66] 
    TheStig wrote:

    Kick-63, 3rd paragraph:

    Everybody actually born in NYC knows Trump's revisionist family history is daft bullshit.
    Nobody is fooled, the trail of records, as you point out, is clear. Being of German extraction was bad for business in the 1930's and positively hazardous to your health after the United States joined the Allies late in World War I. My Bronx born Grandma,who rose to wealth herself (3 times!!!) considered the "Trumps" real estate trash and was not shy to say so. The clumsy Swedish fiction drew an eyeball roll from Grandma, who like most native NYers of her generation, could correctly suss your ancestry 10 seconds after you opened your mouth.

  67. [67] 
    Kick wrote:

    TS
    66

    Real estate trash! *laughs* Yes, sir.

    The clumsy Swedish fiction drew an eyeball roll from Grandma, who like most native NYers of her generation, could correctly suss your ancestry 10 seconds after you opened your mouth.

    Your "Grandma" sounds a lot like my "Grand" who also did not suffer lying poons and festering pond scum like the Friedrich Trumpf spawned "real estate trash" who knowingly and intentionally lied for decades -- and published in The Art of the Deal for all posterity -- regarding their heritage.

    What's really pathetic is just how eager Trump is to stand in front of a group of his bleating gullible sheeple and refer to another political candidate in disparaging terms knowing full well that his family and himself knowingly lied for decades about their German heritage and called themselves Swedish!

    So maybe Democrats should start referring to the hypocritical Fat Bastard as "Swedish Meatball" or something similar in order to dish up the same shit Trump and his cult of moronic minions serve up regularly; it describes him perfectly. *laughs*

Leave a Reply

[If you have questions as to how to register or log in, to be able to post comments here, or if you'd like advanced commenting and formatting tips, please visit our "Commenting Tips" page, for further details.]

You must be logged in to post a comment.
If you are a new user, please register so you can post comments here.

[The first time you post a comment (after creating your user name and logging in), it will be held for approval. Please be patient (as it may take awhile). After your first comment has been approved, you will be able to post further comments instantly and automatically.]