ChrisWeigant.com

Two Presidents, On Treason

[ Posted Tuesday, February 6th, 2018 – 17:42 PST ]

Senator Tammy Duckworth, a woman who lost her legs in service to her country (as a military helicopter pilot, in Iraq), just taught everyone an important history lesson.

She did so in reaction to remarks by President Donald Trump, where he expressed his disappointment that Democrats in Congress didn't applaud and give him standing ovations at his recent State Of The Union speech. Of course, Trump has always been severely confused by the concept that loyalty to the country doesn't necessarily mean blind loyalty to him, personally, but this time he went further that he's ever gone before. Here he is, whining about Democrats not applauding:

Even on positive news like that, really positive news like that, they were like death, and un-American. Somebody said "treasonous." I mean, yeah, I guess, why not? Shall we call that treason? Why not? I mean, they certainly didn't seem to love our country very much.

It's right there for anyone to see: not applauding him personally means Democrats don't "seem to love our country very much." Which, according to Trump -- because "Why not?" -- is actually treason, a crime punishable by death.

This is what prompted Senator Duckworth to make her attempt to school Trump on what loyalty actually means in this country:

We don't live in a dictatorship or monarchy. I swore an oath -- in the military and in the Senate -- to preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States, not to mindlessly cater to the whims of Cadet Bone Spurs and clap when he demands I clap.

Well said, Senator, well said. When Trump acts like a tinpot dictator -- which he does with alarming frequency -- the best thing to do is to call him on it, immediately and forcefully. The White House lamely tried to explain that Trump was "just kidding," but jokes about treason really should never pass the lips of a United States president -- unless he's specifically doing a comedy/roast routine, which Trump decidedly wasn't. According to the White House (and our taxpayer dollars which funded it), this speech wasn't even technically a political speech. It was supposed to be a presidential speech touting Trump's tax cuts and the economy (given on the day the Dow dropped 1,175 points, ironically). But then, as he is wont to do, Trump started ad-libbing and just enjoying himself. He went into campaign rally mode, in other words. Because he quite obviously felt he hadn't gotten enough applause for the week.

Senator Duckworth had an even more poignant point to make. She quoted another Republican president -- Teddy Roosevelt -- from a letter he wrote during World War I. Roosevelt had been writing opinion articles for the Kansas City Star, heavily criticizing Woodrow Wilson's handling of the war effort. Roosevelt was on the hawkish side of the argument, so he wasn't exactly writing anti-war screeds or anything. But many people took exception to the fact that he was criticizing Wilson so publicly. Roosevelt wrote back the following, a small piece of which was excerpted by Duckworth:

The President is merely the most important among a large number of public servants. He should be supported or opposed exactly to the degree which is warranted by his good conduct or bad conduct, his efficiency or inefficiency in rendering loyal, able, and disinterested service to the Nation as a whole. Therefore it is absolutely necessary that there should be full liberty to tell the truth about his acts, and this means that it is exactly necessary to blame him when he does wrong as to praise him when he does right. Any other attitude in an American citizen is both base and servile. To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public. Nothing but the truth should be spoken about him or any one else. But it is even more important to tell the truth, pleasant or unpleasant, about him than about any one else. [The Kansas City Star, 7 May 1918]

Teddy got it exactly right. What is "morally treasonable to the American public" is demanding fealty to the president. And calling the failure to do so treason. That is what is truly un-American here.

Other than tinpot dictatorships and despotic governments, there is one form of government where such loyalty is indeed demanded. It is called "monarchy." This is what is truly confused in Trump's worldview, because time and time again he reveals that he really does see himself as a kinglike figure, whom all must bow and curtsy to at every possible occasion. Maybe he missed that part of American history where we fought a war to get rid of a king? With his lack of depth and understanding, it's certainly possible he forgot that whole Revolutionary War chapter in the book. But the rest of us shouldn't ever forget it. Self-government, free speech, and a free press demand that every citizen gets to make up their own mind over what is worth applauding and what isn't. Or who is worth applauding, for that matter. To even suggest otherwise is to directly attack American freedom, in fact.

Republicans have gone from defending a guy who screamed "You lie!" during a presidential address to Congress to demanding unquestioning loyalty and applause from their political opponents during such a speech. That's quite a turnaround, isn't it? If you want to see some congressmen not applauding during a speech, check out the GOP during any of Obama's speeches, as they sit in stony silence. Did Obama ever call such behavior treasonous? Of course he didn't, because unlike Trump he understands what true freedom means.

It is not un-American to refuse to applaud a political speech you don't agree with. It is, in fact, un-American to demand such applause as your given due. It is not treason, here in America, to fail to offer up the adulation that rulers such as Kim Jong Un get every time they speak. As Teddy Roosevelt pointed out, what is morally treasonous is to suggest that somehow the president is ever above such reproach. He is not Pope. He is not our King. He is a civil servant, and one of the bedrock tenets of the American faith is to be able to criticize the government freely -- with speech, in print, or by refusing to applaud a president.

I'd like to thank Senator Tammy Duckworth not only for her service to this country, both on the battlefield and in the Senate, but also for drawing this important lesson from history. Because Teddy Roosevelt's words ring just as true today as the day he wrote them, a century ago.

-- Chris Weigant

 

Follow Chris on Twitter: @ChrisWeigant

 

64 Comments on “Two Presidents, On Treason”

  1. [1] 
    Paula wrote:

    Very.Good.Column.

  2. [2] 
    neilm wrote:

    Yeah, and demanding that Senator Duckworth stand otherwise she is a traitor is a bit cruel, surely?

    I mean, even his subjects can agree to that.

  3. [3] 
    Don Harris wrote:

    Cruel, but not unusual- for Trump. So it's OK because it's not cruel AND unusual.

  4. [4] 
    ListenWhenYouHear wrote:

    Trump has made it clear that he believes he is a king who can do whatever he wants and we must bow and applaud his every move as being wonderful. Besides displaying almost all of the textbook characteristics of a narcissistic sociopath, Trump is hitting all of the characteristics of an autocrat.

    His attacks on anyone who criticizes him or disagrees with his version of reality is constant. “Fake news” should cause people to associate whatever Trump is referring to when he uses that phrase as being “the truth” by now. Trump believes the government agencies should be protecting him from being investigated — an odd concern for someone with nothing to hide.

    Behavior like this treason comment are damaging and constantly being displayed by Trump; and we should not accept this from any elected official! Remember when Trump stood in front of the nation asking the Russians to find Clinton’s missing emails and release them! He claims it was a joke, but when he told it none of us were aware that he had just met with the Russians regarding that very topic...so we were not truly “in” on that joke; nor do we find it even remotely funny!

  5. [5] 
    Kick wrote:

    CW: Self-government, free speech, and a free press demand that every citizen gets to make up their own mind over what is worth applauding and what isn't. Or who is worth applauding, for that matter. To even suggest otherwise is to directly attack American freedom, in fact.

    Yes, exactly this. :)

    I'd like to thank Senator Tammy Duckworth not only for her service to this country, both on the battlefield and in the Senate, but also for drawing this important lesson from history. Because Teddy Roosevelt's words ring just as true today as the day he wrote them, a century ago.

    There are so many others with decades of service to America who are tasked with protecting our country who President Twitter Bully denigrates on a near daily basis because he needs the sycophants to believe his lies since the facts are not in his favor. Do not allow them to dismantle your freedoms a piece at a time in service to a want-to-be dictator seeking fame and adulation.

    While Republicans in Congress sit down and turn a blind eye, complicit and afraid... stand up, make noise, be heard, and remember that Mueller's team has obtained multiple indictments and as the noose tightens, the distractions will grow louder from Benedict Donald, the serial fabricator who defines "treasonous" as those who won't clap for a speech while referring to a conspiracy with Russian adversaries to obtain dirt on a political opponent as "smart politics."

    Not on our watch. :)

  6. [6] 
    TheStig wrote:

    CW-One of your best! Pitch perfect.

  7. [7] 
    Mezzomamma wrote:

    Hear, hear!

  8. [8] 
    Michale wrote:

    Teddy got it exactly right. What is "morally treasonable to the American public" is demanding fealty to the president. And calling the failure to do so treason. That is what is truly un-American here.

    And yet, the Hysterical Left Wingery demanded ALL Americans give fealty to Obama..

    How come ya'all didn't have a problem with that then??

    Oh, yes.. That's right. Because Obama had a -D after his name and fealty to a DEMOCRAT POTUS is rightfully demanded...

    :^/

  9. [9] 
    Michale wrote:

    Neil,

    Yeah, and demanding that Senator Duckworth stand otherwise she is a traitor is a bit cruel, surely?

    Surely???

    I seem to recall a certain well known Democrat told a guy in a wheelchair to stand...

    Wasn't that "cruel"...

    Oh wait.. Don't tell me... I know! I know!!

    "Well.. That's different"

    It always is when it comes to Democrats vs Republicans...

    :^/

  10. [10] 
    Michale wrote:

    The White House lamely tried to explain that Trump was "just kidding," but jokes about treason really should never pass the lips of a United States president -- unless he's specifically doing a comedy/roast routine,

    Ooooo nice equivocation, eh? :D

    You KNEW I would find it, right CW? :D

    But allow me to fix it for you..

    The White House lamely tried to explain that Trump was "just kidding," but jokes about treason really should never pass the lips of a United States president -- unless he's specifically doing a comedy/roast routine or unless it's a POTUS with a -D after his name..

    :D

  11. [11] 
    Michale wrote:

    What it all boils down to is this..

    *PRESIDENT* Trump said something ya'all didn't like so ya'all get hysterical and go off the deep end...

    Ho hum.... If it's a day ending in 'Y' then the People's Republic Of Weigantia is getting hysterical about something *PRESIDENT* Trump did or said.... yyyyaaaaaawwwwwnnnnnn

  12. [12] 
    C. R. Stucki wrote:

    Michale

    Ya gotta admit, only a weird narcissistic moron would say such a thing. Only good thing about Trump is, he ain't Hillary!

  13. [13] 
    Michale wrote:

    CRS,

    Ya gotta admit, only a weird narcissistic moron would say such a thing.

    I'll agree with everything but the 'moron' part. Trump may be many things, but the FACTS clearly show that he is not a moron...

    Irregardless...

    Trump's narcissism is not in question here..

    Nor is the fact that narcissism is not an impeachable offence...

    If it were, Odumbo would have been impeached his first month in office..

    Only good thing about Trump is, he ain't Hillary!

    I would dispute that being the "only" good thing about Trump...

    I will concede, though, that Trump not being Hillary is right up there in the top 3 best things about President Trump.. :D

  14. [14] 
    neilm wrote:

    Michale [9] - Develop a sense of humor ;)

  15. [15] 
    Michale wrote:

    Michale [9] - Develop a sense of humor ;)

    I have an EXCELLENT sense of humor...

    It's just not tied to any ideological slavery.. ;D

  16. [16] 
    Michale wrote:
  17. [17] 
    TheStig wrote:

    Since Trump recently displayed his appalling ignorance about what is treason and what is not, the Washington Post has published a number of editorials on the subject. I think the best is by Prof. Carlton F.W. Larson (UC Davis).

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/five-myths-about-treason/2017/02/17/8b9eb3a8-f460-11e6-a9b0-ecee7ce475fc_story.html?utm_term=.6423eef57b80

    There is a lot of myth busting in this editorial, but this particular nugget stands out:

    "...enemies are defined very precisely under American treason law. An enemy is a nation or an organization with which the United States is in a declared or open war . Nations with whom we are formally at peace, such as Russia, are not enemies. (Indeed, a treason prosecution naming Russia as an enemy would be tantamount to a declaration of war.)

    Trump is unburdened by facts, but they do matter in a court of law.

    While I'm on the subject of recommending things, the PBS American Experience documentary "The Gilded Age" is excellent and well worth your time. I won't provide a link (clogs the filter), but it's easy enough to Google. The parallels between the Gilded Age and now are pretty striking. The only flaw I found in the PBS production is that there wasn't single reference to Samuel Clemons, whose life sums up a lot of the cognitive dissonance of that era. You can never have too many Clemons quotes in my humble opinion.

  18. [18] 
    Michale wrote:

    Trump is unburdened by facts, but they do matter in a court of law.

    And, if *PRESIDENT* Trump was speaking in a court of law, you would have an argument..

    But he wasn't, so you don't...

  19. [19] 
    Michale wrote:

    (Indeed, a treason prosecution naming Russia as an enemy would be tantamount to a declaration of war.)

    So, when ya'all accuse President Trump of treason based on his yet unproven collusion with Russia, ya'all are full of it?? :D

  20. [20] 
    Paula wrote:

    https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2018/feb/06/sharing-fake-news-us-rightwing-study-trump-university-of-oxford?CMP=share_btn_tw

    Low-quality, extremist, sensationalist and conspiratorial news published in the US was overwhelmingly consumed and shared by rightwing social network users, according to a new study from the University of Oxford.

    Guardian Today: the headlines, the analysis, the debate - sent direct to you
    Read more
    The study, from the university’s “computational propaganda project”, looked at the most significant sources of “junk news” shared in the three months leading up to Donald Trump’s first State of the Union address this January, and tried to find out who was sharing them and why.

    “On Twitter, a network of Trump supporters consumes the largest volume of junk news, and junk news is the largest proportion of news links they share,” the researchers concluded. On Facebook, the skew was even greater. There, “extreme hard right pages – distinct from Republican pages – share more junk news than all the other audiences put together.”

  21. [21] 
    Paula wrote:

    https://talkingpointsmemo.com/edblog/the-gop-and-big-lie-politics

    This is actually quite black and white. There’s no evidence of politicized intelligence or law enforcement or counter-intelligence work at all. Actually not any. All the evidence is based on false claims, logical fallacies or intentionally misleading representations of how standard law enforcement procedures work. There’s also a high brow version of this which redirects the conversation toward longstanding and legitimate concerns about whether the FISA system is consistent with the rule of law in the first place. This is a grave error which only confuses the situation and makes general considerations about the rule of law into a tool of someone trying to trample on it.

    The FBI and its counter-intelligence branch is and long has been a generally conservative institution. That doesn’t mean it’s “biased.” The possibility that people can remain professional in spite of personal political beliefs is a cornerstone premise of democratic government. But the notion of anti-Republican or anti-Trump bias is really preposterous on its face.

    The piece concludes:

    This all brings us back to the essential point. We don’t yet know what if anything Donald Trump is guilty of. We largely know on the obstruction front. The “collusion” front is much less clear. But all the evidence we have suggests a professional and if anything quite cautious investigation, one run from first to last by Republicans and on critical fronts by Donald Trump’s own nominees and appointees. The entirety of the “Deep State” anti-Trump bias storyline is no more than fakery and lies designed to cover up Trump’s misdeeds. It’s an effort that every member of the Republican party, up to its highest leaders like Paul Ryan, have made themselves party to. Yet none of it amounts to more than a big lie, The Big Lie. It’s just something repeated over and over to give it an appearance of verisimilitude even though it’s simply a lie concocted to defend President Trump at any cost.

  22. [22] 
    neilm wrote:

    I have an EXCELLENT sense of humor...

    Everybody thinks they have an excellent sense of humor.

    Some are just more delusional than others.

  23. [23] 
    Paula wrote:

    Blotus/GOP lie and slur at the top of the foodchain. Meanwhile, at the bottom of the foodchain, Trumpers -- in Catholic School, mind you -- show who they are:

    https://www.rawstory.com/2018/02/ohio-teens-chant-slurs-black-asian-players-refs-forced-call-off-basketball-game/

    Elder High School students chanted the name of a Chinese restaurant chain at an Asian-American player, along with homophobic slurs, and singled out a black player for racist abuse, reported WLWT-TV.

    The chants reached a peak in the third quarter, when Friday’s game between Elder and St. Xavier High School was finally called off.

    Republicans own this.

  24. [24] 
    John M wrote:

    Side note on Michale's contention that Democrats won't even be able to be elected as dog catcher in the upcoming midterm elections, or some such nonsense:

    Democrats flipped a Missouri state House seat Tuesday, marking the 35th seat that has changed from red to blue since Donald Trump became president.

    Mike Revis, 27, defeated his Republican opponent in a special election Tuesday by 3 percentage points.

    The 97th District in Jefferson County went for Trump in the presidential election by 28 points.

  25. [25] 
    Paula wrote:

    [22] neilm: If you've ever seen A Fish Called Wanda, you may remember the great lines:

    Wanda says (paraphrasing): "You're an ape Otto!"

    Otto: "Apes don't read Nietzsche!"

    Wanda: "Yes they do. They just don't understand it!"

  26. [26] 
    Paula wrote:

    [24] John M: Yes, the Missouri win was great news last night!

  27. [27] 
    neilm wrote:

    LOL Paula [25] - I need to see "A Fish Called Wanda" again.

  28. [28] 
    Michale wrote:

    Democrats flipped a Missouri state House seat Tuesday, marking the 35th seat that has changed from red to blue since Donald Trump became president.

    Again, I have to comment on the HILARIOUSNESS of yer hypocrisy...

    Dumbocrats lost over ONE THOUSAND State and local seats..

    And ya'all's response was "eh".. No biggie..

    Dumbocrats gain *ONE* single seat and, all of the sudden it's a Blue Tsunami!!!!

    And what is so SO pathetically sad is that ya'all ACTUALLY BELIEVE the crap you spew.. :D

    But, of course, the FACTS say different..

    washingtonpost.com/opinions/taking-back-the-house-will-be-harder-than-democrats-think/2018/02/06/ea027aca-0a93-11e8-8b0d-891602206fb7_story.html?utm_term=.e5f8e3b46f1a

    and....

    usatoday.com/story/opinion/2018/02/06/democrats-have-money-win-congress-my-night-tremors-getting-wo-jesse-ferguson-column/307072002/

    and so many other facts....

    Face reality people...

    Yer optimism is the EXACT same optimism ya'all had in the summer of 2016....

    Only to see the Dumbocrat Party UTTERLY DECIMATED in the election...

    Same song, different verse...

  29. [29] 
    Michale wrote:

    Everybody thinks they have an excellent sense of humor.

    Some are just more delusional than others.

    Yes, some are... Slavery does delude people..... :D

  30. [30] 
    Michale wrote:

    Mike Revis, 27, defeated his Republican opponent in a special election Tuesday by 3 percentage points.

    THREE WHOLE POINTS!!!!

    Well, why didn't ya say so!!!!

    Break out the champagne!! Dumbocrats got a lock on county dog catcher!!!

    BBBWWWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

  31. [31] 
    C. R. Stucki wrote:

    Michael

    You understand, when one is drowning, he"grasps for straws", as the saying goes, out of desperation. Our Dem/Lib buddies, having lost damn near everything there is to lose in the political arena in recent times, are understandably desperate enough to be "grasping for straws".

    You could cut 'em a little slack rather than deriding them mercilessly.

    The normal political cycle usually favors the "outs" in off-yr elections, if they can wait a few more months, maybe they'll finally win something tangible. If they don't, I worry we wont have anybody TO deride!!

  32. [32] 
    Michale wrote:

    You understand, when one is drowning, he"grasps for straws", as the saying goes, out of desperation. Our Dem/Lib buddies, having lost damn near everything there is to lose in the political arena in recent times, are understandably desperate enough to be "grasping for straws".

    Troo dat...

    You could cut 'em a little slack rather than deriding them mercilessly.

    Yea... I probably could.. But they troll so emphatically, so much so that I just can't resist the urge to bring them down to earth...

    This *IS* a reality-based forum after all..

    But yer right, of course.. I should cut them some slack... They are in the throes of HHPTDS and cannot help themselves...

    The normal political cycle usually favors the "outs" in off-yr elections, if they can wait a few more months, maybe they'll finally win something tangible. If they don't, I worry we wont have anybody TO deride!!

    Troo again... There was severe psychological trauma in the aftermath of 8 Nov 2016 that still continues today....

    A mini 2016 in 2018 will push a lot of these people over the edge...

    It won't be pretty....

  33. [33] 
    TheStig wrote:

    Re -17

    That's Samuel Clemens. Sam's ghost is going to get me for that for that typo.

  34. [34] 
    Paula wrote:

    [17 & 33] TS: While Blotus misuses "treason" he exemplifies "traitor", defined as "a person who betrays a friend, country, principle".

    I don't think he has any real friend to betray and it will be interesting to see if he'll push Kushner or any of his kids out of the lifeboat if it will save his skin, but he certainly has betrayed country and any number of principles.

  35. [35] 
    neilm wrote:

    Ah yes, smugness from the far right [31, 32].

    This fits in with the moral bankruptcy they are suffering from.

    The decent people of America may be in the minority, but we are also the educated and intelligent minority, and we are moving the country in our direction, for example:

    1. Gay marriage is now the law of the land
    2. Marijuana is on its way to legalization
    3. Bigots are under attack - #metoo isn't going away

    And the biggest positive for decent people is that we are motivated like I've never seen us before in America.

    We assumed that an ignorant clown like Donald Trump could never become President, but now we realize we need to get to work and take our country back. And we are, and we will.

  36. [36] 
    Paula wrote:

    https://wonkette.com/629462/white-house-hates-to-see-hope-hickss-wife-beater-boyfriend-go-but-john-kelly-loves-to-watch-him-walk-away

    One of the many stories about Rob Porter who beat up his two wives and has had to step down. Blotus knows how to pick 'em!

  37. [37] 
    Paula wrote:

    [35] We assumed that an ignorant clown like Donald Trump could never become President, but now we realize we need to get to work and take our country back. And we are, and we will.

    Yep!

  38. [38] 
    Michale wrote:

    Ah yes, smugness from the far right [31, 32].

    Only a total dickhead would think CRS is from the far right.. :D

    Only an ignorant moron would think I was..

    Which are you, Neil?? :D

    And the biggest positive for decent people is that we are motivated like I've never seen us before in America.

    Just as you were in Sep-Oct of 2016...

    How well did THAT work out for ya'all?? :D

    We assumed that an ignorant clown like Donald Trump could never become President, but now we realize we need to get to work and take our country back. And we are, and we will.

    Yep.. And you will attempt it even if you have to nullify a free, fair and legal election...

    In other words, a coup...

    Good luck with that.. Trump supporters won't take kindly to that...

    And 99% of them are armed and trained...

  39. [39] 
    Balthasar wrote:

    CW: First, before I forget, wow, great writing today.

    Neilm: We assumed that an ignorant clown like Donald Trump could never become President, but now we realize we need to get to work and take our country back. And we are, and we will.

    100% accurate. You'd think that Republicants would understand that sort of motivation. I think that's why right-wing media is pushing the whole bogus 'deep-state' narrative: to give them something to fight against. Otherwise, they're in power and have nothing to rail against, except for their own embarrassment over the tweets of Blovious Erectus.

  40. [40] 
    Balthasar wrote:

    M [38]: And you will attempt it even if you have to nullify a free, fair and legal election...

    Aw, get off your High horse. Even if Trump goes down, you still have Pence the Lesser to step up into the Presidency, and if HE goes down, the successor is Ryan, so the top job stays safely Republicant.

    That would be a useless coup.

    But then, y'all have enabled this cowardly gangster, so maybe you should concede power out of shame for your actions, or rather inaction, in the face of such monstrously misguided politics. Sort of like the 'boycott Trump' movement that's been getting traction among never-Trump GOP, wherein they assert that their party has to lose in order to be rebuilt back into a reasonable facsimile of an opposition party. I could get behind that.

  41. [41] 
    neilm wrote:

    The primary motivator in today's politics is anger. The right got angry because Obama wasn't their sort of President, for some reason, and we say a swing to the Republicans.

    Now the decent people of America are angry because the current occupant of the White House isn't good enough for America.

    Winning elections in America isn't about winning the battle of ideas - people don't change their ideas - look at Michale who wallows in a putrid slurry of lies, innuendo and conspiracy theories (no offense Michale) - do you think a quick introduction to reality is going to wash away decades of accumulated filth (again, no offense meant)?

    Winning elections in America is getting your voters motivated by anger. (Sometimes, as in 2008 and 2012, hope win out, but anger is more effective.)

    Those of you who live in red enclaves and who haven't seen "Happy Valley, USA" go from disinterest in politics to fury at the vile ignoramus in the White House might be surprised in November.

  42. [42] 
    Balthasar wrote:

    That's right, Neil. That's why the right-wing media is spending so much time these days trying to convince their faithful that Obama and Hillary are STILL THERE, manipulating events from the wings, and planning to run against Nancy Pelosi in the fall, even though she holds no more real power at present than Trey Gowdy.

    They need villains. Hope NEVER worked for the GOP.

  43. [43] 
    neilm wrote:

    trying to convince their faithful that Obama and Hillary are STILL THERE

    I know - I mean, can they ever get over 2016?

    I expect a lot of smug wallowing in the past, with denial about the reality on the ground - I mean look at the 31% swing in Missouri - we see Michale call it a 3% win missing the other 28% part of the swing.

    CRS thinks it is just a reflection of out of cycle elections going against the party in power - correct. But it also misses that fact that these off-cycle elections tend to have low turnouts that lean right (older/retirees are usually over-represented wrt major elections), and the fact that this as a very safe right wing constituency in 2016.

  44. [44] 
    Michale wrote:

    Aw, get off your High horse. Even if Trump goes down, you still have Pence the Lesser to step up into the Presidency, and if HE goes down, the successor is Ryan, so the top job stays safely Republicant.

    Awww, get off your ignorant horse..

    Even if Pence steps up, it STILL means that ya'all nullified a free, fair and legal election...

    It's STILL a coup and it still will piss off Trump supporters and they STILL are 99% armed and trained..

  45. [45] 
    Michale wrote:

    Winning elections in America is getting your voters motivated by anger. (Sometimes, as in 2008 and 2012, hope win out, but anger is more effective.)

    Which is what ya'all did in 2016..

    HOW did that work out for ya, Neil?? :D

    BBBWWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

  46. [46] 
    neilm wrote:

    HOW did that work out for ya, Neil?? :D

    Well we got the majority of the voters to vote for Hillary.

    A weird statistical freak and an undemocratic system put a weird statistical freak into the White House.

    The anger over that miscarriage of justice is palpable - I had some friends round for dinner last night and we never talk politics, but now people don't care hurting somebody else's feelings if they are Republicans - no more Mr. and Mrs. Polite Folks until this disgusting criminal does not represent America any longer.

    You think I'm an extreme - news alert, I'm pretty easy-going-middle-of-the-road in comparison to the anger the Republicans are about to face.

  47. [47] 
    neilm wrote:

    It's STILL a coup and it still will piss off Trump supporters and they STILL are 99% armed and trained..

    And would get their asses kicked by our police and military if they tried anything.

  48. [48] 
    Michale wrote:

    Well we got the majority of the voters to vote for Hillary.

    And if the vanity vote had ANY relevance, you would have an argument..

    But it doesn't, so you don't..

    You think I'm an extreme - news alert, I'm pretty easy-going-middle-of-the-road in comparison to the anger the Republicans are about to face.

    Yea, it's always "about" to face. Always, "just wait"...

    Yaaaaaaawwwwwnnnnnn

  49. [49] 
    Michale wrote:

    And would get their asses kicked by our police and military if they tried anything.

    Silly rabbit..

    The cops and the military are pro America and pro Trump.. :D

  50. [50] 
    neilm wrote:

    The cops and the military are pro America and pro Trump.. :D

    No, they are pro-constitution - remember, 45 has been trashing law enforcement for the last couple of months.

    Now he is demanding that the military give him a parade - you think they are going to enjoy performing for him like he is their king?

  51. [51] 
    Michale wrote:

    Despite all of this bad news President Trump holds a 48% approval rating today in the Rasmussen daily tracking.

    President Trump has a stronger approval rating today than media darling Barack Obama did back in 2010 on this same day.

    Back on February 7, 2010 Barack Obama had an approval rating of 44% while 56% of likely voters disapproved of the far left president.

    BBBWWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

    :D

  52. [52] 
    Paula wrote:

    https://poll.qu.edu/national/release-detail?ReleaseID=2517

    "President Donald Trump has attempted to "derail or obstruct" the investigation into Russian interference in the 2016 presidential election, American voters say 53 - 41 percent in a Quinnipiac University National Poll released today.

    Voters are divided on whether Republicans in Congress are trying to derail or obstruct Special Counsel Robert Mueller's investigation into possible links between President Trump's 2016 campaign and the Russian government as 46 percent say there is GOP obstruction and 44 percent say there is no obstruction, the independent Quinnipiac (KWIN-uh-pe-ack) University Poll finds.

    Mueller's investigation is legitimate, 50 percent of voters say, as 42 percent say it is a "political witch hunt." In a separate question, voters say 56 - 28 percent the probe is "fair."

    While there is an obvious partisan divide on these questions, independent voters say:
    56 - 37 percent that Trump is attempting to derail the Russian investigation;
    49 - 42 percent that Republicans in Congress are trying to derail the Russian probe;
    54 - 39 percent that the investigation is legitimate rather than a witch hunt.
    American voters approve 48 - 36 percent of the way the FBI is handling its job, compared to 46 - 38 percent in a January 13, 2017, Quinnipiac University Poll.

    The FBI is not biased against Trump, voters say 55 - 33 percent."

  53. [53] 
    Balthasar wrote:

    M[48]And if the vanity vote had ANY relevance, you would have an argument..

    Confusing 'vanity' with 'majority' is something Trump does too, fairly often.

  54. [54] 
    goode trickle wrote:

    The cops and the military are pro America and pro Trump.

    You only got the Pro-America part right...

    This from military times says otherwise.

    https://tinyurl.com/y9cckac4

  55. [55] 
    goode trickle wrote:

    and if you want to talk parade....

    Army times ran a poll on what the military thought about "Trumps" parade. Guess what?

    85% against, sighting it as a waste of money and troops too busy.
    15% for...

  56. [56] 
    Kick wrote:

    Now he is demanding that the military give him a parade - you think they are going to enjoy performing for him like he is their king?

    Neil is 100% correct. As anyone who has ever been in a military parade can tell you: Parades suck. They are lots of work and very expensive. They don't just happen easily either; there are weeks of practice involving a massive consumption of resources, military manpower, ordnance, etc. that could definitely be put to much better use.

    Resources, you ask? For instance, it takes approximately 10 gallons of gas just to start an M1 tank, which holds approximately 500 gallons and can go about 1/2 to .6 miles on a gallon of fuel. In good conditions, one can achieve a whopping 1-mile distance on 2 gallons of gas. Image also what a mile of city road is going to look like after a multimillion dollar machine that can plow through a house traverses over it, but special tracks could be made and utilized for a hefty price, etc. I could go on and on about tanks, but you get the drill (pun intended).

    So Trump wants a big parade like France to "honor the military." We already have several holidays that do that, but okay. I hope he gets private funding to pay for it and a whole bunch of civilians to perform for the troops as they sit on the sidelines with beers and refreshments. :)

    Seriously, though, if Trump wants to honor the military, he could raise the pay for those on active duty and stop trying to reduce veterans' pay. Enough said.

  57. [57] 
    Kick wrote:

    And if the vanity vote had ANY relevance, you would have an argument..

    Since the topic was "winning elections in America" and the popular vote has relevance in every election in America save for one, I'd say Neil has a hell of an argument then. :)

  58. [58] 
    Michale wrote:

    No, they are pro-constitution -

    Yes.. And you hysterical NeverTrumpers are shitting on the Constitution by trying to nullify a free, fair and legal election..

    remember, 45 has been trashing law enforcement for the last couple of months.

    No, President Trump has been trashing FBI leadership for being in the tank with Odumbo and all the other hysterical NeverTrumpers..

    Cops and military are solidly behind President Trump and will fight, with force of arms, this illegal coup..

  59. [59] 
    Michale wrote:

    GT

    President Donald Trump enjoys far stronger support among members of the military than the American public at large, according to the latest scientific Military Times poll.

    Yet while Trump is especially popular among enlisted troops, officers have a much lower opinion of him.

    Exactly...

    Officers are political....

    You can bet that if the hysterical NeverTrumpers continue with this soft coup, the cops and the military en masse will side with the freely, fairly and legally elected POTUS..

  60. [60] 
    Michale wrote:

    Balthy,

    Confusing 'vanity' with 'majority' is something Trump does too, fairly often.

    And confusing majority with relevance vis a vis the Presidential Election is something ya'all do ALL the time because it allows you to hold on to the delusion that President Trump isn't legitimate..

  61. [61] 
    Michale wrote:

    Neil,

    And would get their asses kicked by our police and military if they tried anything.

    Yea??

    Read INDIAN COUNTRY by Kurt Schlichter and tell me if that's factually accurate.. :D

    You simply CAN'T do it.. :D

  62. [62] 
    Michale wrote:

    Yunno the BEST reason for a grand yuge military parade??

    To watch the hysterical NeverTrumpers tear themselves to pieces over it!! :D

    That alone is worth the price of admission.. heh

  63. [63] 
    Michale wrote:

    The so-called GOP-FBI split is a Democratic fantasy

    Republicans exposing the malfeasance of Hillary Clinton supporters at the top of the FBI’s ranks has hit a nerve. Democrats are afraid it could not only diminish their hopes that the Russia investigation will bring down President Trump but also perhaps flip the investigation into questions of senior FBI leaders manipulating the legal process to pursue Trump and help Clinton. As historian Victor Davis Hanson recently wrote in National Review, “the greatest irony of all” would be “a special counsel investigating what likely did not happen while ignoring what likely did — perhaps the greatest political scandal of the modern age.”

    To me, it looks like former FBI deputy director Andrew McCabe, former FBI counterespionage section chief Peter Strzok, former associate deputy attorney general Bruce Ohr and perhaps others were anticipating a Clinton presidency. But they guessed wrong, and they got caught trying to impress Team Clinton. I’ve been in the swamp for more than 30 years. I know selfish career maneuvering when I see it.
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/post-partisan/wp/2018/02/06/the-so-called-gop-fbi-split-is-a-democratic-fantasy/?utm_term=.821235f98e35

    And it's from WaPoop so ya'all *HAVE* to accept it.. :D

  64. [64] 
    Paula wrote:

    http://thehill.com/policy/cybersecurity/372819-fbi-texts-referred-to-briefing-obama-on-russian-interference-not-clinton

    GOP traitors and the big Unfaithful Sh!thole try to construct a new fake scandal by cutting and pasting more emails between FBI agents in order to try to impugn President Obama. They screw it up, revealing not only that they're STUPID, but that they are against ending Russian interference in our elections, and indeed, like it coz they only win by cheating.

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