ChrisWeigant.com

Tea Party 1, Paul Ryan 0

[ Posted Thursday, March 23rd, 2017 – 15:22 UTC ]

The Tea Party is, once again, flexing its muscles. Little noticed in the 2016 election results was the changing ratio between Tea Partiers and the Republican caucus as a whole in the House of Representatives. Republicans lost seats, but not many of these losers were Tea Partiers. This meant the relative strength of the Tea Party increased, overall. The real power dynamic, though, is that when the Tea Partiers hang together, they've got a big enough bloc to halt any Republican-only legislation cold. Which is what they've just accomplished, on the Ryancare bill. Paul Ryan was forced to concede that there will be no vote today, which means he will be robbed of symbolically voting on Obamacare's replacement on the day Obama signed it into existence, seven years ago.

Of course, the bill could still pass. It's important to remember that, even as Democrats gleefully celebrate Paul Ryan being embarrassed by his own party. Ryan's story as I write this (things are changing fast in Washington, so this may not be true by the time you read it) is that they're going to have a big horsetrading session at the White House tonight, and then they'll have a vote tomorrow morning. Will Donald Trump prove himself to be the dealmaker he's always bragged of being? It's certainly possible. So Democrats should still remain wary -- just because Ryan doesn't get his symbolic anniversary date doesn't mean the bill's dead yet.

So far, the Tea Partiers don't seem all that persuadable. Trump locking them in a room for hours may not change this much. The Tea Partiers, being Tea Partiers, have such extreme demands for the bill that it's doubtful whether they'll be appeased with anything short of their idea of conservative purity. Ideologues are always the hardest to get to compromise, to state the painfully obvious.

Of course, we've all seen this movie before. We're likely going to see it play out again multiple times this year, when the budget debates get underway. Tea Partiers are notorious for demanding their way or the highway, and their victory today is only going to make them stronger.

The difference with budget negotiations, however, is that deadlines loom. Government shutdowns become a real possibility. This will force Speaker Ryan to cut similar deals to the ones cut by his predecessor, Speaker John Boehner. When you've got a pack of rabid wolves in your caucus who won't consider one tiny inch of compromise, it forces you to go outside your own party in order to get the votes to pass a budget. Deals are cut which strip away the worst conservative excesses in return for a few goodies for Democrats, leaving almost nobody entirely happy with the outcome -- but the compromise avoids the crisis and continues to fund the government.

But repealing and replacing Obamacare has no real deadline. Contrary to Republican rhetoric, any sober look at Obamacare's numbers show the program will overall be quite stable for the next decade. Not many noticed this, but the Congressional Budget Office report on the Ryancare bill expressly stated this fact. So while Republicans all tell themselves (from Trump on down) that Obamacare is somehow in a "death spiral" that will collapse in the next year or two, that's just not the actual case. So repeal and replace can wait as long as it needs to, legislatively, unlike raising the debt ceiling or passing a budget.

Paul Ryan tried to interject a sense of urgency into his Ryancare bill, but this urgency is non-existent in the real world. It is entirely a construct of politics, nothing more. Ryan's urgency has been palpable throughout the process -- he's trying to squeeze a process that should really require months and months into a few weeks. As Nancy Pelosi just pointed out, another false Republican talking point is that somehow Democrats jammed something through Congress with unseemly haste. In fact, it took them over a year -- a year filled with public hearings, drafts of bills being made public, and plenty of time for debate -- to shepherd the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act through Congress. It was epic sausage-making, and it certainly didn't happen overnight. The same cannot be said for Ryancare, which has only existed in public for three weeks. Ryan's dream of shoving his bill through both houses of Congress within a single month now looks pretty naive.

The big problem Ryan was trying to avoid now seems inevitable. Ryan wanted to shove his bill through as fast as humanly possible so that the public wouldn't find out what was in it until it was too late. But the fracas with the Tea Party is laying out in stark detail the differences between the various proposals. Ryan's bill is already pretty awful, but the Tea Partiers are demanding that it instead be made brutally awful. This only serves to focus the public on the awfulness, and polling for Ryan's plan shows it is now pretty universally unpopular. Ryan's hasty plan has failed, in other words.

Ryan and the Republicans are now in a lose-lose situation. It pretty much doesn't matter what happens now, the Republican Party is going to spark some rage from their own base no matter the eventual outcome. If Ryancare collapses and is replaced with nothing, then Republican voters will feel betrayed by all those years of promises to repeal Obamacare. If Ryancare passes the House in some extreme, Tea-Party-friendly form, it will be dead on arrival in the Senate. If some compromise is worked out in the Senate, the Tea Partiers will kill it in the House, leaving the Republicans with nothing once again. Even if Ryancare passes the House and Senate and becomes law, Republicans will then own healthcare in America, and will have to suffer the consequences when the awfulness in Ryancare becomes the reality of losing insurance for tens of millions of voters.

If Ryancare fails, there is going to be open civil war within the Republican Party. It's already lining up that way, with most of the big Republican donors (including the Koch brothers) urging House Republicans to vote Ryancare down. If the bill fails, the recriminations and sniping within the Republican ranks may come to dominate the rest of this congressional session. After all, if the Tea Party nails Ryan's scalp to the wall over Ryancare, they'll only be bolder in trying to scuttle other Ryan-approved plans.

Republicans in general, and the Tea Party in specific, always run on a rather odd promise to the voters: "Government doesn't work -- elect us and we'll prove it!" The Republican Party now controls both houses of Congress and the White House. They really have no excuse for not being able to govern, at this point. If the Tea Partiers continue to make completely unrealistic demands and if they continue to stick together as a solid bloc, though, they'll continue proving that Republicans are just downright incapable of governing, all the way to the 2018 elections.

-- Chris Weigant

 

Follow Chris on Twitter: @ChrisWeigant

 

81 Comments on “Tea Party 1, Paul Ryan 0”

  1. [1] 
    Kick wrote:

    Boehner is somewhere having a stiff drink and a smoke and laughing his ass off! :)

  2. [2] 
    Kick wrote:

    Congratulations again goes to Devin Nunes for apologizing for his IGNORANT TOOLISHNESS of yesterday.

    Here's your new sign Devin: IGNORANT YET APOLOGETIC TOOL

    ^^^^^ ! The above post is not about Michale ! ^^^^^
    ^^^^^ ! nor any of his other posts anywhere.! ^^^^^

  3. [3] 
    ListenWhenYouHear wrote:

    Boehner is somewhere having a stiff drink and a smoke and laughing his ass off! :)

    Laughing so hard that he starts crying! I heard Boehner is Trump's spray tanning supplier, but that may just be a rumor.

  4. [4] 
    Kick wrote:

    Listen [3]

    Laughing so hard that he starts crying! I heard Boehner is Trump's spray tanning supplier, but that may just be a rumor.

    Heh!

    Poor Boehner, I have seen him cry so many times that I can tell you exactly what sets him off: anything that makes him reminisce about childhood. ¯\_(^^)_/¯

  5. [5] 
    goode trickle wrote:

    Hey gang-

    Look on the bright side... At least the GOP'ers have dropped any pretense of helping the electorate.

    I guess the "The forgotten men and women of our country will be forgotten no longer" means corporations... Afterall they are people.

  6. [6] 
    Paula wrote:

    [5} goode: I guess the "The forgotten men and women of our country will be forgotten no longer" means corporations... Afterall they are people.

    Yep.

  7. [7] 
    neilm wrote:

    It pretty much doesn't matter what happens now, the Republican Party is going to spark some rage from their own base no matter the eventual outcome.

    I think the denial has a few more years to run. I mean, these people fell for the most obvious con man in over 100 years of American politics - do you think they are going to admit they are wrong now?

    They are going to grab at straws that ameliorate their cognitive dissonance and amplify any minor shortcoming of their "opposition" until the truth is just too obvious to ignore.

  8. [8] 
    chaszzzbrown wrote:

    [5] gt

    Look on the bright side... At least the GOP'ers have dropped any pretense of helping the electorate.

    Spare the rod, spoil the citizen.

  9. [9] 
    nypoet22 wrote:

    PT VS. TP, TP gets PTDS, PT gets PO'd and the country gets PTSD. PU!

    JL

  10. [10] 
    michale wrote:

    Congratulations again goes to Devin Nunes for apologizing for his IGNORANT TOOLISHNESS of yesterday.

    Cite???

    ^^^^^ ! The above post is not about Michale ! ^^^^^
    ^^^^^ ! nor any of his other posts anywhere.! ^^^^^

    Thereby making it about me... :D

  11. [11] 
    michale wrote:

    Congratulations again goes to Devin Nunes for apologizing for his IGNORANT TOOLISHNESS of yesterday.

    Cite???

    Because, unlike you, I have the facts that show your claim to be BS... :D

    Potential 'smoking gun' showing Obama administration spied on Trump team, source says

    Republican congressional investigators expect a potential “smoking gun” establishing that the Obama administration spied on the Trump transition team, and possibly the president-elect himself, will be produced to the House Intelligence Committee this week, a source told Fox News.

    Classified intelligence showing incidental collection of Trump team communications, purportedly seen by committee Chairman Devin Nunes, R-Calif., and described by him in vague terms at a bombshell Wednesday afternoon news conference, came from multiple sources, Capitol Hill sources told Fox News. The intelligence corroborated information about surveillance of the Trump team that was known to Nunes, sources said, even before President Trump accused his predecessor of having wiretappedhim in a series of now-infamous tweets posted on March 4.

    The FBI hasn’t been responsive to the House Intelligence Committee’s request for documents, but the National Security Agency is expected to produce documents to the committee by Friday. The NSA document production is expected to produce more intelligence than Nunes has so far seen or described – including what one source described as a potential “smoking gun” establishing the spying.
    http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2017/03/23/potential-smoking-gun-showing-obama-administration-spied-on-trump-team-source-says.html

    And, since ya'all have already established a pattern of accepting anonymous media sources, logically ya'all should have NO PROBLEM accepting this report.. :D Unless, of course, you are a Party slave who doesn't believe ANY media reports that support President Trump... :D

    Ain't it a bitch to always be trapped by ya'all's own Party slavery?? :D

    As to the information itself, pretty damning for Obama and the Democrats...

  12. [12] 
    michale wrote:

    Look on the bright side... At least the GOP'ers have dropped any pretense of helping the electorate.

    I guess the "The forgotten men and women of our country will be forgotten no longer" means corporations... Afterall they are people.

    The GOP never had any real intent on helping Joe and Jane Sixpack..

    That's why it's a godsend that President Trump was elected... :D

  13. [13] 
    michale wrote:

    The full extent of the improper spying—including the improper unmasking of Americans whose identities were to be hidden in reports of foreign communications intercepts—is expected to be disclosed Friday, Nunes said.

    The National Security Agency has agreed to provide additional reports, although Nunes said the FBI has not yet agreed to his request to turn over additional sensitive intelligence reports on the Trump transition team.
    http://freebeacon.com/national-security/intelligence-reports-reveal-improper-political-surveillance-trump-transition-team/

    Rut Roh....

    "Do you hear that, Mr {Obama}?? That is the sound of inevitability"
    -Agent Smith, THE MATRIX

    The crooks always get caught in the end.. :D

  14. [14] 
    michale wrote:

    And what of ya'all's claim that Team Trump colluded with the Russians to win the election???

    ppppppppfffffffffffffffffftttttttttttttttttttt

    That's the air leaking out of ya'all's ideologically based theory... :D

    Ya see what happens when ya'all ignore facts and logic and simply adhere to Party ideology??

    Ya'all get embarrassed time and time again...

  15. [15] 
    Paula wrote:

    http://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/3/24/15044150/gops-true-health-care-problem

    On Wednesday, I wrote about the closing argument President Donald Trump was making to skittish Republican legislators. Vote for the bill, he’s been telling them, or you’ll lose your seat.

    That night, I received a call from a Democratic senator. He’d read the piece, and it had reminded him of the closing argument President Barack Obama made to skittish Democratic legislators. Vote for the bill, Obama told them, because it’s worth losing your seat.

    He goes on to explain the vision Dems had for the ACA and why they slogged through months and ultimately voted for it.

    The Repubs have none of that. The piece ends: And so Republicans are left legislating based on fear rather than hope. They fear that if they pass nothing, their base will destroy them, and they fear that if they pass the desultory quarter-measure they’ve concocted, the country will destroy them. Beyond the tactics, beyond the process, beyond Trump’s crummy closing pitch and the House Freedom Caucus’s ever-shifting demands, this is their real problem: They do not have a plan worth losing their seats over.

  16. [16] 
    Paula wrote:

    http://washingtonmonthly.com/2017/03/24/why-the-rush-to-repeal-obamacare-its-all-about-the-tax-cuts/

    …passing the health package first facilitates deeper tax cuts for the wealthy and corporations in subsequent tax legislation.

    That’s because the House GOP health plan reduces revenues by nearly $900 billion over the decade, according to the Congressional Budget Office (CBO), including $592 billion in tax cuts largely for the wealthy. Passing these tax cuts now as part of a health package allows the GOP to offset their cost through cuts to health care spending — particularly in Medicaid, which CBO estimates the House health care bill cuts by $880 billion over ten years. If these tax cuts were part of tax reform legislation rather than being in the health bill, Republican leaders would have to offset their cost…

    Healthcare, schmelthcare! It's all about the tax cuts baby! That's what speaks to the wizened souls of top Republicans and, of course, the orange Tax-Evader-I-owe-Russians-a-lot-of-money-in-Chief.

  17. [17] 
    Paula wrote:

    I want to be wrong. I want some decent Republicans to surprise me and vote "no" today.

    We'll see.

  18. [18] 
    Balthasar wrote:

    Widely reported GOP staffer tweet: "I've never seen so many people look at something dead and pretend it's not."

    Reports are that even Trump has thrown in the towel on this one, blaming Ryan.

  19. [19] 
    Balthasar wrote:

    Next drama: Trump vs. Koch Bros.

  20. [20] 
    Balthasar wrote:

    Rachel Maddow: "The health care replacement plan only has a 17% approval rating - that's lower than Chris Christie."

  21. [21] 
    michale wrote:

    Widely reported GOP staffer tweet: "I've never seen so many people look at something dead and pretend it's not."

    Reports are that even Trump has thrown in the towel on this one, blaming Ryan.

    Cite???

    Rachel Maddow: "The health care replacement plan only has a 17% approval rating - that's lower than Chris Christie."

    After MadCow's totally bogus expose on Trump's "tax returns", it's a wonder she wants to even show her face...

  22. [22] 
    Paula wrote:

    Now Trump wants to force a vote so that he can get a list of "enemies" who vote against it. (Bannon's suggestion.)

    Ryan will get blamed anyway. If I were him I'd pull the bill rather than hand any of my guys over to Trump. If I were him I'd finally grasp that Trump doesn't care one-single-bit about anything but himself and how he looks.

    But we'll see.

  23. [23] 
    michale wrote:

    Now Trump wants to force a vote so that he can get a list of "enemies" who vote against it. (Bannon's suggestion.)

    Once again...

    Cite???

    It's hilarious how ya'all demand absolutely and triple-sourced PROOF for anything ya'all disagree with..

    Yet ya'all spew total and complete nonsense and expect it to be treated as gospel...

    Sad...

  24. [24] 
    Don Harris wrote:

    "I've never seen so many people look at something dead and pretend it's not."
    Did this person miss Hillary's campaign and is he/she unaware of the current state of the corporate Democrats?"

  25. [25] 
    michale wrote:

    Ryan will get blamed anyway.

    President Trump pulled the legislation..

    "I don't blame Paul".
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/powerpost/house-leaders-prepare-to-vote-friday-on-health-care-reform/2017/03/24/736f1cd6-1081-11e7-9d5a-a83e627dc120_story.html?utm_term=.c90e2c6f39ab

    You EVER get tired of being wrong???

  26. [26] 
    michale wrote:

    "I've never seen so many people look at something dead and pretend it's not."
    Did this person miss Hillary's campaign and is he/she unaware of the current state of the corporate Democrats?"

    Oh, snap!!!! :D

  27. [27] 
    neilm wrote:

    What a farce - seven years of telling us how bad Obamacare is, and how much better the Republican plan is going to be - plus another year of listening to a con man tell us how he has an even better plan - and the can't even get their own people to vote for it.

    What a bunch of losers.

    Who knew healthcare would be so complicated?

  28. [28] 
    John M wrote:

    Michale wrote:

    "The GOP never had any real intent on helping Joe and Jane Sixpack..

    That's why it's a godsend that President Trump was elected... :D"

    Oh come on Michale! You can't REALLY still believe that, can you??? If that were TRUE, then why is Trump only playing to his hard right Republican base??? Why isn't he reaching across the aisle to work with the Democrats and forge a coalition with them and moderate Republicans???

  29. [29] 
    Kick wrote:

    michale [11]

    Cite???

    I guess everyone except you knows that Devin Nunes apologized to the intel committee for what he did; it's all over the Internet. Here let me spoon feed you a link.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JyU58Pm0udc

    Because, unlike you, I have the facts that show your claim to be BS... :D

    You couldn't possibly have a cite that proves my claim to be BS because Devin Nunes did apologize for what he did. Once again, you're trying to make my post about what Devin Nunes SAID even after I've told you multiple times that my post is about what Devin Nunes DID.

    Ain't it a bitch to always be trapped by ya'all's own Party slavery?? :D

    Same shit, different day!

    Isn't it a bitch to have a few tired arguments and little else to offer, while your dearth of ideas is as monotonous as it is pitiable? Isn't it a bitch to be told multiple times that someone's post is not about you or your post to another person from another page, yet your absence of gray matter and ignorance of comprehension continue to plague you?

    As to the information itself, pretty damning for Obama and the Democrats...

    Really? Okay... last time I am going to say this: My first post was congratulating Nunes for being an ignorant tool by putting some more coins into the conspiracy theory parking meter. My second post was congratulating Nunes for apologizing for what he did.

    As to the information itself, I still don't give a shit about what Nunes said. So Nunes still maintains that Trump's allegations of wiretapping are false and that the surveillance was legal but contained incidental collection that Nunes deemed somehow inappropriate. Sounds like Nunes is saying some members of Team Trump - maybe Trump himself - was recorded speaking to someone who was the subject of a legally executed FISA warrant. That's basic SOP and fairly unremarkable standard shit... probably why I didn't give a shit about what Nunes said and continue to NOT. :)

  30. [30] 
    michale wrote:

    JM,

    Why isn't he reaching across the aisle to work with the Democrats and forge a coalition with them and moderate Republicans???

    You're kidding, right??

    Democrats have been talking impeachment *AND* assassination since President Trump was elected..

    And YOU want him to reach out to Democrats??

    You must live in a state that has legalized marijuana and you got yerself a righteous batch.. :D

  31. [31] 
    Paula wrote:

    So the original Orange-man is sitting on a sunny deck somewhere, smoking and raising a glass to the sky. Boehner, having a last laugh.

  32. [32] 
    michale wrote:

    So the original Orange-man is sitting on a sunny deck somewhere, smoking and raising a glass to the sky. Boehner, having a last laugh.

    Once again...

    CITE!????

  33. [33] 
    Kick wrote:

    michale [12]

    The GOP never had any real intent on helping Joe and Jane Sixpack..

    That's why it's a godsend that President Trump was elected... :D

    "A godsend"? *LOL*

    Those of us with perspicacity would like to reiterate that your Prima Donald... your Orange Oracle... your Cheeto Jesus... yes, let's go with Cheeto Jesus:

    Is a con artist extraordinaire, and not only would he not work across the aisle with Democrats, you sit and watch while he actually blames Democrats for not voting for his bullshit. :)

  34. [34] 
    Paula wrote:

    To Repubs who refused to sign-on to this travesty because it would hurt Americans: I salute you.

    To the Democrats who stayed out of the way to let the Repubs make a hash of their big chance to keep a stupid, irresponsible promise: I salute you. (Love Nancy Pelosi, among others.)

    To the supposed legendary deal-making prowess 45 unleashed on this mess: I question whether that reputation is deserved. Well, I don't believe its deserved at all, actually, and this outcome appears to bear that out.

    To the Repubs of any stripe who said they weren't about to be strong-armed by the orange one who's "deal-making" prowess appears to consist of insults and threats: I salute you.

    To the millions of Americans who went to Town Halls and made calls and wrote newspapers and all the rest, in defense of the ACA: I salute you. I did my part and I'm really, really glad I did.

  35. [35] 
    michale wrote:

    Well, Republicans scroo'ed the pooch on replacing CrapCare...

    They have no one to blame but themselves..

    NOW we're gonna find out the down and dirty on the Obama Administration breaking the law over Team Trump surveillance...

    Nice..... :D

  36. [36] 
    michale wrote:

    Does anyone want to talk about how Team Trump colluded with the Russians to win the election??

    No???

    Didna think so.. :D

    "Kahn.. I am LAUGHING at the superior intellect.."
    -Admiral James T Kirk

    :D

  37. [37] 
    michale wrote:

    This is what is so awesome about the Democrat Party in the here and now..

    They are so leader-less and rudder-less and clue-less....

    Even when they win, they lose!!! :D

  38. [38] 
    Paula wrote:

    Chapter Two lies ahead.

    Will Paul Ryan grasp that kissing 45's expansive tush guarantees him, Ryan, nothing?

    Will the Republican House descend into a fury of blaming and scapegoating or will they unite against the ticking timebomb they saddled us with?

    Will Ryan keep the speakership at all?

    Will 45 or Ryan make any attempt to shore up the ACA in a responsible way? Or will 45 try to make it fail out of spite and to the detriment of the public?

    Exactly how childish and vindictive will 45's tweets throwing blame around this weekend be?

    For the moment a bullet has been dodged. Will the GOP have the sense to leave well enough alone?

    We'll see.

  39. [39] 
    michale wrote:

    Every gambler knows.. That the secret to surving....
    Is knowing what to throw away, knowing what to keep..
    You got to know when to hold 'em...
    Know when to fold 'em...
    Know when to walk away...
    Know when to run...

    -THE GAMBLER

    President Trump's deal-making prowess is still intact...

    As to blaming Democrats??

    Of COURSE they share the blame..

    Democrats would rather see tens of thousands of Americans die (ya'all's numbers, not mine) rather than help the GOP help save American lives..

    Once again, Democrats put Party before Country..

    That's been the Democrat way for the last 15 years....

  40. [40] 
    Kick wrote:

    So Trump says he never said he would repeal and replace Obamacare in 64 days?

    He's technically correct. Anyone here think "immediately" qualifies for less than 64 days? He did say he would do it "immediately," and he did say it would be "so easy."

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R-VTbt-i_b4

    He also blamed Democrats because he couldn't deliver.

  41. [41] 
    michale wrote:

    This will actually be a positive for President Trump..

    When CrapCare implodes because it is such crap, the Democrats and Odumbo will get the blame...

    Then the GOP plan will be better received...

  42. [42] 
    michale wrote:

    He also blamed Democrats because he couldn't deliver.

    Just like ya'all blame Republicans for everything...

    What's yer point??

  43. [43] 
    Paula wrote:

    Funny how some Trumpers would rather see ACA "fail", no matter how much it hurts their fellow-Americans, than admit their dear leader is a loud mouth who talks big but can't deliver.

    Dems have long-since said ACA needed boosting in different areas, and have put forth plans to do it. But GOP wasn't interested in that, they just wanted to claim a "win" and they needed this "win" because they'd spent seven years talking smack about the ACA in order to rile up their $%^& base. It's all been bullshit and they have been saved from their own folly -- and no one deserves it less.

    But the American people did NOT deserve a return to the bad old days just to inflate the egos of the toddler-in-chief, the Ayn Rand acolyte speaker, or a bunch of sadistic Tea Partiers.

    If Grumpy wants to blame the Dems for his devastating failure today, we'll take it!

  44. [44] 
    Kick wrote:
  45. [45] 
    nypoet22 wrote:

    This will actually be a positive for President Trump..

    When CrapCare implodes because it is such crap, the Democrats and Odumbo will get the blame...

    that's like saying that losing the election will actually be a positive for hillary clinton... when trump implodes because he is such crap, republicans will get the blame and hillary will be golden...

    ...or perhaps a loss is just a loss.

    JL

  46. [46] 
    michale wrote:

    "The losers are Nancy Pelosi and Chuck Schumer because now they own ObamaCare. They own it, 100 percent own it. And this is not a Republican health care, this is not anything but a Democrat health care, and they have ObamaCare for a little while longer until it ceases to exist, which it will at some point in the near future."
    -President Trump

    Yep...

    All the blood of the coming catastrophe will be on Odumbo and the Dumbocrats...

  47. [47] 
    Kick wrote:

    Paula [34]

    To the millions of Americans who went to Town Halls and made calls and wrote newspapers and all the rest, in defense of the ACA: I salute you. I did my part and I'm really, really glad I did.

    Well, right back at you, soldier. Those unlimited minutes really come in handy, don't they? :)

  48. [48] 
    michale wrote:

    that's like saying that losing the election will actually be a positive for hillary clinton... when trump implodes because he is such crap, republicans will get the blame and hillary will be golden...

    ...or perhaps a loss is just a loss.

    Let me put it another way..

    CrapCare is a huge ticking time bomb. President Trump and the GOP had a plan to diffuse that ticking time bomb..

    They couldn't get it past the hurdle because Democrats decided to sit on their hands...

    So, when CrapCare explodes, WHO is going to get the blame??

    It IS called ObamaCare after all... :D

  49. [49] 
    michale wrote:

    Funny how some Trumpers would rather see ACA "fail", no matter how much it hurts their fellow-Americans, than admit their dear leader is a loud mouth who talks big but can't deliver.

    Funny how ALL Dumbocrats would rather see CrapCare explode no matter HOW it hurts their fellow Americans, than admit their deal leader pushed thru an abortion that was NEVER viable.... :D

    Works both ways, sugar.. :D

  50. [50] 
    michale wrote:
  51. [51] 
    michale wrote:

    But the American people did NOT deserve a return to the bad old days just to inflate the egos of the toddler-in-chief,

    Just remember... That "toddler-in-chief" TOTALLY devastated your chosen candidate..

    Doesn't say much for NOT-45, eh? :D

  52. [52] 
    Paula wrote:

    One more salute: to Governors who objected strenuously, and all the Medical and Business groups who registered their disapproval.

  53. [53] 
    michale wrote:

    No matter how ya'all wanna spin it, the simple fact is that Obama and the Democrats OWN the coming health insurance catastrophe... :D

    It's gonna be GLORIOUS!!!! :D

  54. [54] 
    Paula wrote:

    [47] Kick: Yep!

  55. [55] 
    goode trickle wrote:

    Democrats would rather see tens of thousands of Americans die (ya'all's numbers, not mine) rather than help the GOP help save American lives..

    For the moment let's ignore the CBO...Let's also ignore all of the people against this bill...and of course the basic math...

    Please oh wise one inform, those of us wandering about in ignorance, how this GOP legislation was going to make life better for us.

    Links to real facts always welcome...

  56. [56] 
    goode trickle wrote:

    The GOP never had any real intent on helping Joe and Jane Sixpack..

    That's why it's a godsend that President Trump was elected... :D

    I must not be on the inside track...Please list what exactly trump has done to date to benefit and look out for the middle class.

  57. [57] 
    Kick wrote:

    michale [42]

    Just like ya'all blame Republicans for everything...

    That is both a LIE and a DEFLECTION and exactly how your "godsend" reacted when he failed to deliver on his promise "so easy" and "immediately." It's easy to see why you worship him so... how your small minds think very much alike... why you two are like peas and carrots!

    What's yer point??

    Was that post difficult? It wasn't rocket science. I even supplied a link with moving pictures for you.

  58. [58] 
    neilm wrote:

    OK, so I was asked about the Democrats putting forward their bill for Healthcare, and I said before that the timing was wrong.

    Now the time is right.

    The Democrats should put in place a bill called "Affordable Care Act 2017" that strengthens the current ACA and adds some expensive goodies to annoy the "Freedom Caucus". They can let 45 negotiate away the expensive goodies but leave the adjustments in place. By calling it the ACA 2017 they can ensure that it is seen as the next version of Obamacare.

    If the Republicans were smart they'd pass it after some negotiation and a name change to 45care. But they are almost guaranteed to start shouting Obamacare 2.0 and reject it.

    Then they completely own healthcare.

  59. [59] 
    neilm wrote:

    I must not be on the inside track...Please list what exactly trump has done to date to benefit and look out for the middle class.

    Well if you define the middle class as people earning above $250K/year but less than say, $5M, then I'd say the tax bill they are going to give us is going to be a boon to the "middle class".

    I anticipate tax cuts for capital gains and dividends, you know, income that "middle class" people rely on.

  60. [60] 
    Paula wrote:

    http://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/3/24/15016918/trump-why-health-reform-failed

    A nice rundown on the whole debacle.

    Ends: So on Thursday, the president tried his final trick — he cut off negotiations and demanded the House vote tomorrow. It was an attempt to transform the vote into a test of personal loyalty to Trump. He hoped that holdout Republicans were bluffing.

    But it turned out to be Trump who was the bluffer. When Ryan traveled to the White House to make clear that they were well short of the votes they needed, the president soon agreed not just to cancel the vote but to abandon the effort entirely. It was time to cut his losses and move on to other things. “Obamacare,” Ryan said Friday afternoon, “is the law of the land.”

  61. [61] 
    Paula wrote:

    According the the Vox article, the phrase "now we're shooting with live bullets" became popular among Congressmen.

    Funnily enough, they were comfortable voting to repeal while Obama could be relied on to veto them. Once they actually had to pony up and face the consequences of repealing without a genuinely workable replacement, they balked.

  62. [62] 
    Paula wrote:

    And Obama, who's not even in office, WINS!!!

  63. [63] 
    neilm wrote:

    45 blamed this whole fiasco on the Democrats - hilarious.

    Hey dimwit - you've been bragging for months about how you won, won, won - the White House, the Senate and the House.

    Why can't you do anything?

    Because you are a loser.

  64. [64] 
    Kick wrote:

    michale [48]

    CrapCare is a huge ticking time bomb. President Trump and the GOP had a plan to diffuse that ticking time bomb..

    The plan was shit Michale, and that's why even Republicans wouldn't vote for it. After several revisions, the final bill would have allowed insurers to go back to writing shit policies that didn't cover essential health benefits such as emergency room visits and hospitalization and would allow them to sell to unsuspecting consumers who'd assume they had coverage... the kind of policies that would best be described as "Trump U."

    They couldn't get it past the hurdle because Democrats decided to sit on their hands...

    Are you completely unaware that Republicans in the House hold their largest majority since 1928? Knowing that fact, who in their right mind could truthfully blame Democrats for not helping to pass a bill that would screw over millions of Americans and that 215 Republicans wouldn't hold their nose and vote for?

    So, when CrapCare explodes, WHO is going to get the blame??

    Who controls the House, the Senate, and the White House? Who promised it would be "so easy" to "immediately" repeal and replace and then failed to drive that home? Who ran on a populist message and then took an immediate hard right at the wheel? The guy who is steering the vehicle gets the blame when he plows it right into a ditch. :)

  65. [65] 
    Kick wrote:

    michale [51]

    Just remember... That "toddler-in-chief" TOTALLY devastated your chosen candidate..

    Doesn't say much for NOT-45, eh? :D

    I think it actually doesn't say much for those people who fell for the populist bullshit of a 70-year-old con artist who spent his whole life leaving a trail of people he stiffed.

    It's very much like PT explained when he said: "I could stand in the middle of Fifth Avenue and shoot somebody and I wouldn't lose any voters."

    Doesn't that say so much more about those voters that it does their Mafia Don? :)

  66. [66] 
    Kick wrote:

    neilm [58]

    OK, so I was asked about the Democrats putting forward their bill for Healthcare, and I said before that the timing was wrong.

    Now the time is right.

    Neil is exactly right here. Maybe it might also be a good time for Democrats to unite and start pushing for a single-payer plan... because that's where this all ends! :)

  67. [67] 
    Kick wrote:

    Paula [60]

    A nice rundown on the whole debacle...

    But it turned out to be Trump who was the bluffer. When Ryan traveled to the White House to make clear that they were well short of the votes they needed, the president soon agreed not just to cancel the vote but to abandon the effort entirely. It was time to cut his losses and move on to other things. “Obamacare,” Ryan said Friday afternoon, “is the law of the land.”

    I know, right? They just called in the press and threw in the towel and blamed Democrats. They didn't even try that hard. How pathetic, right?

    Can anyone remember the speech that First Lady HRC gave when Congress defeated her health care reform in the 90s? No you really can't because she didn't give a "loser" speech. She kept working with Democrats and Republicans and helped to create the Children’s Health Insurance Program, which now provides health coverage to more than 8 million children. She worked closely with Ted Kennedy who said that if not for Hillary pushing it from her end of DC, the Children’s Health Insurance Program wouldn’t be in existence today.

    I think Trump was at a bigly disadvantage because of his ignorance regarding health care and his general dearth of knowledge regarding the inner workings of DC and how a bill becomes a law. *LOL* Who knew health care was so complicated? Certainly not the Con who lied to Americans about his health care plan that was going to cover everyone for a lot less money but who had no plan and worked tirelessly with the far right wingers creating a plan that would throw 24 million Americans off their health care. Even Republicans wouldn't vote for that scam.

    People can criticize HRC for lots of things, but she knows everything there is to know about the intricacies of health care policy and Washington, DC, and how to reach across the political aisle to get things done, and she isn't a sniveling little finger pointer like the Whiny-Little-Bitch-in-Chief. :)

  68. [68] 
    Balthasar wrote:

    Cite???

    Convenient cry in a forum that only allows for one link per post. I'm just sayin'. Nothing I've posted about isn't all over several websites, including the rightie trashy ones. Try googling.

    CrapCare is a huge ticking time bomb.

    Will you take the word of Kaiser, a major health insurance behemoth, that it isn't unless the Administration wants it to be?

    http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2017/03/will-obamacare-really-explode-214949

    Notice in that article about how the insurance rep is perfectly happy to hang the whole thing around the neck of the current administration (and politicians generally), rather than admit that his company is up-to-its-eyeballs a part of the problem.

    Here are the ten benefits he refers to that the ACA says have to be in every policy:

    https://www.healthcare.gov/coverage/what-marketplace-plans-cover/

    I can't imagine that any of those services wouldn't be in any healthcare plan that was worth the paper it's printed on. I'd make that list at least twelve items deep myself, as I never understood why dental or vision coverage, for instance, isn't just as important as any other medical need.

    The insurance companies (and their teaparty lackeys) want to cut that list in half, at least. Mind you, the insurance companies will post billions of dollars in profits this year, and Humana recently got a 37 billion dollar takeover bid from Aetna. Doesn't look like Obamacare is killing them.

    Hilariously, the insurance rep is in favor of creating a taxpayer-funded pool of 100 billion dollars to shore up insurance profits in areas where an increase in premiums has caused a drop-off of new customers.

    We're the ones being squeezed, and the GOP is in on it. Thank the gods the GOP failed today.

  69. [69] 
    Chris Weigant wrote:

    Paula [38] -

    We'll just have to wait and see what the Trumpster tweets at 6 am tomorrow morning...

    Heh.

    Michale [39] -

    Did FL suddenly legalize weed or something? I mean, you're becoming totally unhinged here.

    No deal = Trump's a great dealmaker? WTF???

    Usually you have a tiny shred of a lifeline to some sort of right-wing reality, but this one is just completely unmoored. I mean, seriously?

    Trump promised he'd have a great health plan on "Day One". He didn't. He LIED TO YOU. He then hitched his wagon to Ryancare. That failed. How in any possible universe is that a win for him?

    [46] -

    OK, now I'm really starting to get worried about your sanity. I mean, do you listen to yourself ever?

    Using your "logic" -- all of Obamacare's flaws, real or imaginary, are ALL THE FAULT of the Repubilcans in Congress -- precisely because NONE OF THEM voted for it.

    Now do you see how ridiculous that sounds?

    Sheesh.

    As for you and Trump waiting for Obamacare to "explode" -- I suggest you hold your breath until it happens. Yeah, that'll show them! I mean, it's bound to happen within the next three minutes, right?

    Heh.

    Oh, and by the way, where ARE all those death panels Sarah Palin predicted? I mean, it's been three years of Obamacare so far, so pretty soon they should be setting up shop, making life-or-deathy decisions as to whether Sarah's baby gets to live or not, right? I mean, that's what she predicted -- that's what she PROMISED would happen...

    In other words, maybe PT Barnum was right.

    neilm [58] -

    Just saw this, but I heartily agreed with your sentiments in my Friday column. Now is indeed the time.

    Paula [62] -

    That's the most intelligent thing I've heard all day. Kudos!

    :-)

    Kick [67] -

    While you make an otherwise-excellent point about HRC and the Hillarycare era, I still have a problem with how she overstated her influence on CHIP. Check the record, especially what Kennedy had to say about it. Now, I realize she was in the midst of a campaign, but Kennedy deserved the lion's share of that credit. HRC only got on board AFTER it passed, really. Not saying that wasn't a helpful thing, but let's not overstate her influence on things...

    -CW

  70. [70] 
    michale wrote:

    For the moment let's ignore the CBO...Let's also ignore all of the people against this bill...and of course the basic math...

    You mean the CBO that was so dead (no pun intended) wrong about CrapCare??

    Yea, by all means. Let's ignore it.. :D

    Please oh wise one inform, those of us wandering about in ignorance, how this GOP legislation was going to make life better for us.

    It would have prevented CrapCare from exploding and leaving EVERYONE without health insurance...

    Links to real facts always welcome...

    Yea.. Like anyone else does... Why hold me to a standard ya'all ignore??

  71. [71] 
    michale wrote:

    I must not be on the inside track...Please list what exactly trump has done to date to benefit and look out for the middle class.

    How about hundreds of thousands of new and saved jobs??

    Not that the Left Whinery gives a crap about jobs. They just want to make sure that guys can use girl's bathrooms..

  72. [72] 
    michale wrote:

    No deal = Trump's a great dealmaker? WTF???

    Every gambler knows.. That the secret to surving....
    Is knowing what to throw away, knowing what to keep..
    You got to know when to hold 'em...
    Know when to fold 'em...
    Know when to walk away...
    Know when to run...

    -THE GAMBLER

    :D

    Trump promised he'd have a great health plan on "Day One". He didn't. He LIED TO YOU.

    Ya'all didn't mind when Obama lied to you about closing Gitmo, right??

    As I have said many a time, I don't have much of a dog in the fight that is CrapCare...

    It was never a strong reason for me to support President Trump..

    Using your "logic" -- all of Obamacare's flaws, real or imaginary, are ALL THE FAULT of the Repubilcans in Congress -- precisely because NONE OF THEM voted for it.

    I am not sure what you are referring to so I can't respond...

    Oh, and by the way, where ARE all those death panels Sarah Palin predicted? I mean, it's been three years of Obamacare so far, so pretty soon they should be setting up shop, making life-or-deathy decisions as to whether Sarah's baby gets to live or not, right? I mean, that's what she predicted -- that's what she PROMISED would happen...

    Ya have to be pretty desperate to use a PALIN promise as a defense?? :D

    As for you and Trump waiting for Obamacare to "explode" -- I suggest you hold your breath until it happens. Yeah, that'll show them! I mean, it's bound to happen within the next three minutes, right?

    Not in the next 3 mins..

    But it IS bound to happen..

    And guess who will get the blame??

    Not the GOP.. Not President Trump...

    The BEST timing would be that CrapCare explodes right around Aug-Sep of 2018...

    Ya'all will be looking at a SUPER Majority in the Senate and total decimation of the Democrats in the House.. :D

  73. [73] 
    Kick wrote:

    CW [68]

    While you make an otherwise-excellent point about HRC and the Hillarycare era, I still have a problem with how she overstated her influence on CHIP. Check the record, especially what Kennedy had to say about it. Now, I realize she was in the midst of a campaign, but Kennedy deserved the lion's share of that credit. HRC only got on board AFTER it passed, really. Not saying that wasn't a helpful thing, but let's not overstate her influence on things...

    Hey, CW, I never met a politician who didn't overstate something or other. :)

    I know there's been a lot of debate over the years regarding HRC's involvement in SCHIP, particularly since Kennedy endorsed BHO, and I also know it was Kennedy's "baby" with the bipartisan help of Orrin Hatch. But HRC didn't actually "ONLY" get on board after it passed, she was a driving force in getting it financed and in keeping WJC's feet to the fire... she was Kennedy's voice inside the White House.

    http://www.factcheck.org/2008/03/giving-hillary-credit-for-schip/

    Sen. Edward M. Kennedy, Oct. 6, 2007: "The children’s health program wouldn’t be in existence today if we didn’t have Hillary pushing for it from the other end of Pennsylvania Avenue."

    In that same story, The AP’s Beth Fouhy concluded, "While Kennedy is widely viewed as the driving force behind the program, by all accounts the former first lady’s pressure was crucial." She quoted Nick Littlefield, who had been a senior health adviser to Kennedy, as saying, "we relied on her, worked with her and she was pivotal in encouraging the White House to do it."

    The AP’s assessment is backed up by others we consulted. Adam Clymer, former chief Washington correspondent for the New York Times, covered the legislative maneuvering and also wrote about it in a 1999 book, "Edward M. Kennedy: A Biography." Clymer wrote that Kennedy "worked with" Hillary Clinton to get White House support for a Senate measure to grant $24 billion for the new program, rather than the $16 billion approved by the House. "With strong administration support, the $24 billion stayed in," he wrote. Then, when the bill finally passed, Kennedy "credited the President, the First Lady, [Senate Democratic Leader Tom] Daschle, Marian Wright Edelman, head of the Children’s Defense Fun, and Hatch. …"

    Clymer, in an exchange of e-mails, told FactCheck.org:

    Adam Clymer: "On balance, I would say of course Kennedy and Hatch deserve most of the credit, but Hillary helped by making sure the Administration stuck with the $24 billion in [the Senate-House] conference. She didn’t write the legislation but she played a significant role in getting it passed."

    Other accounts at the time the legislation was passed and since give Clinton substantial credit. The pro-Republican Washington Times newspaper credited (or perhaps more accurately, blamed) Hillary Clinton for the program in a 1997 article. The paper said it had obtained documents from 1993 showing that the White House "plotted" to push a "Kids First" insurance program if Mrs. Clinton’s universal health care proposal failed.

    Washington Times, Aug. 6, 1997: "The plan signed into law yesterday by Mr. Clinton and pushed by the first lady is a duplicate of the 4-year-old health care task force idea, except that it is paid for by a 15-cent tax on cigarettes. One of the co-authors of the plan, Sen. Edward M. Kennedy, Massachusetts Democrat, credited Mrs. Clinton for her 'invaluable help, both in the fashioning and the shaping of the program.'"

    Years later, when Clinton was first running for the Senate, Kennedy’s aide Littlefield was still giving her credit. The New York Times quoted him as saying, "She was a one-woman army inside the White House to get this done.” He said that when President Clinton himself was showing reluctance to back the new legislation out of fear it would upset a budget deal with Republicans, "We went to Mrs. Clinton and said, ‘You’ve got to get the president to come around on this thing,’" and she did. :)

  74. [74] 
    Balthasar wrote:

    The BEST timing would be that CrapCare explodes right around Aug-Sep of 2018.

    Yeah, 'explode' as in 'be detonated'. Trump has any number of ways to blow up Obamacare. Price at HHS can practically decapitate it, Treasury can instruct the IRS not to enforce the mandate, essentially defunding it. They can kill it.

    If Trump thinks that the electorate is too dumb to see through that, he's conning himself as well.

    And of course, the electorate never blames the party in power when things start to go horribly. ahem.

  75. [75] 
    John M wrote:

    Michale wrote:

    "You're kidding, right??"

    NO, I AM NOT.

    "Democrats have been talking impeachment *AND* assassination since President Trump was elected..

    And YOU want him to reach out to Democrats??"

    YES I DO. After all, Republicans spent 8 years vowing to make Obama a one term President, along with all that birther nonsense, and yet Obama still reached out to Republicans. Are you saying Trump can't do something that Obama DID???

    "You must live in a state that has legalized marijuana and you got yerself a righteous batch.. :D"

    Chris wrote:

    "Did FL suddenly legalize weed or something? I mean, you're becoming totally unhinged here."

    Thanks Chris! I guess, Michale, you just TOTALLY forgot that I also live in Florida????

    Michale wrote:

    "No matter how ya'all wanna spin it, the simple fact is that Obama and the Democrats OWN the coming health insurance catastrophe... :D

    It's gonna be GLORIOUS!!!! :D"

    YES, PLEASE DO hold your breath Michale, for at least the NEXT TEN YEARS. Because, according to the CBO, that's HOW LONG Obamacare will remain STABLE, even if NOTHING MORE is done on it in terms of legislation.

  76. [76] 
    michale wrote:

    If Trump thinks that the electorate is too dumb to see through that, he's conning himself as well.

    According to ya'all, the electorate IS that dumb because they elected Trump..

  77. [77] 
    michale wrote:

    YES, PLEASE DO hold your breath Michale, for at least the NEXT TEN YEARS. Because, according to the CBO, that's HOW LONG Obamacare will remain STABLE, even if NOTHING MORE is done on it in terms of legislation.

    And the CBO's predictions on CrapCare have been WORSE than ya'all's predictions on Trump's election..

    If that's possible...

    YES I DO. After all, Republicans spent 8 years vowing to make Obama a one term President, along with all that birther nonsense, and yet Obama still reached out to Republicans. Are you saying Trump can't do something that Obama DID???

    Odumbo NEVER reached out to Republicans...

    Funny how you don't deny the impeachment and assassination talk amongst the Left Whinery...

  78. [78] 
    Balthasar wrote:

    According to ya'all, the electorate IS that dumb because they elected Trump..

    You've got a point.

  79. [79] 
    Kick wrote:

    michale [76]

    Odumbo NEVER reached out to Republicans...

    Yes, Odumbo did. Just because you have no knowledge of something doesn't mean that it "NEVER" happened.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w1-jasxb7NY

    There are more examples on the Internet, but I know you don't need spoon feeding to find them.

    Henceforth there'll be no need to repeat your above falsehood unless it is your intention to lie. :)

  80. [80] 
    michale wrote:

    According to ya'all, the electorate IS that dumb because they elected Trump..

    You've got a point.

    Thank you..

    It happens... Nice ta see it acknowledged :D

  81. [81] 
    michale wrote:

    Yes, Odumbo did. Just because you have no knowledge of something doesn't mean that it "NEVER" happened.

    Odumbo "taking questions" from Republicans is NOT reaching out..

    Odumbo promised that the GOP would have input in CrapCare..

    Odumbo promised that GOP ideas such as tort reform and purchase across state lines would find their way into CrapCare..

    Odumbo lied out his ass...

    The idea that "I have a pen and a phone/Elections have consequences" Odumbo *EVER* reached out to the GOP in any meaningful way is a myth..

    And THAT comes from a guy who actually VOTED for Odumbo..

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