ChrisWeigant.com

Friday Talking Points [428] -- Ryancare's Awfulness

[ Posted Friday, March 10th, 2017 – 19:24 PST ]

As is becoming the new normal, a ton of things happened in Washington this week. Donald Trump kicked the week off by tweeting out a conspiracy theory, then he rolled out "Muslim Ban 2.0," and by week's end a gigantic fracas within the Republican Party was building to fever pitch. Oh, and that fever will not be covered by the new GOP Obamacare replacement plan, sorry.

But before we get to all the fun, we've got to address a pedantic point. The White House is shrinking in horror from the label "Trumpcare," but if the Republicans ever do manage to pass anything, the label seems inevitable. Trump can decree that the tides stop, but he's going to get swamped in the end. But our point is even more pedantic than that, because while Democrats are gleefully tossing around the Trumpcare label (precisely because it seems to annoy the White House), the biggest pushback so far has been from within the ranks of the Republican Congress. GOP critics of the bill, within the first 24 hours, were already calling it derogatory names (to them) like "Obamacare 2.0" or "Obamacare Lite." But some were pinning the blame directly on Speaker Paul Ryan, and attempted to coin their own new term: "RyanCare."

Here's where we get truly pedantic, because while we do indeed favor naming the bill after the principle mover behind it (for the time being -- because there is plenty of time later to slap Trump's name on it), we must insist on consistency. Therefore, in these pages, we'll be calling it "Ryancare" and not "RyanCare." After all, there is Medicare, Obamacare, and, soon, Trumpcare -- so this capitalization battle has already been fought and won. Mindless grammatical nitpicking aside, though, it's pretty easy to see why any politician would be leery of slapping his name on the new Obamacare replacement bill, because it is so awful.

How awful is it? Pretty damn awful. Here's the most succinct rundown of the GOP plan we've yet read:

So the Republican health-care plan is, essentially, you're on your own. They want to claw back the expansion of Medicaid -- sorry, working poor, you're on your own. They want to remove the Affordable Care Act's subsidies for middle-income people and replace them with some meager tax credits. If that isn't enough to allow you to afford coverage, you're on your own. That's also the principle behind the privatization of Medicare that Ryan has long advocated: He wants to replace Medicare's guaranteed coverage for seniors with a voucher that might or might not pay for private coverage. If it doesn't, you're on your own. Sure, millions of people will lose coverage if they repeal the A.C.A., but that’s less important than whether we're all enjoying more "freedom."

Think this is overstating the case? We don't, because Republicans not only hate the poor with a red-hot passion, they also will quote Jesus himself to justify hating both the poor and the sick. Here is freshman congressman Roger Marshall, from a recent interview, where he claimed that "morally, spiritually, socially" the poor and the homeless "just don't want health care."

Just like Jesus said, "The poor will always be with us." There is a group of people that just don't want health care and aren't going to take care of themselves.... The Medicaid population, which is [on] a free credit card as a group, do probably the least preventive medicine and taking care of themselves and eating healthy and exercising. And I'm not judging; I'm just saying socially that's where they are. So there's a group of people that even with unlimited access to health care are only going to use the emergency room when their arm is chopped off or when their pneumonia is so bad they get brought [to] the E.R.

Hoo boy. Wonder what Jesus might have had to say about that attitude....

Omnipotent beings aside, though, so far the harshest criticism of both the Ryancare bill and the process Ryan is attempting to use to jam it through has come from his own fellow Republicans and conservatives. Here's a quick rundown of some of the worst comments from Ryan's own side of the aisle, so far:

Senator Tom Cotton, who has staunchly defended many of Trump's outrageousness (when even Republicans couldn't bring themselves to) -- to the tune of being called "Trump's wingman" in the Senate, mind you -- tweeted out a few pointed comments this week:

1. House health-care bill can't pass Senate w/o major changes. To my friends in House: pause, start over. Get it right, don't get it fast.

2. GOP shouldn't act like Dems did in O'care. No excuse to release bill Mon night, start voting Wed. With no budget estimate!

3. What matters in long run is better, more affordable health care for Americans, NOT House leaders' arbitrary legislative calendar.

Cotton also said, during an interview: "The bill that was introduced Monday night cannot pass the Senate. And I don't think it will be brought to the Senate for a vote."

Cotton said many of his colleagues hold similar views: “They might not have spoken publicly about it, but I can tell you a number if not a majority of Republican senators think that this process has been too breakneck, too slapdash, and they do not see a good solution for the American people coming out of the House bill as drafted.

Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell, offering support for waiting until the Congressional Budget Office can "score" the bill: "I think we need to know that."

Senator Mike Lee: "This is exactly the type of backroom dealing and rushed process that we [falsely] criticized Democrats for." [Editors: OK, we admit that we had to edit that sentence, for accuracy's sake.]

Even the conservative media was talking about Ryancare's awfulness. From Tucker Carlson at (of course) Fox News, while interviewing Ryan:

It's been seven years to the month since Obamacare passed, and I guess the obvious question is why in all that time couldn't Republicans formulate a plan most of them could agree on before going public with it. It looks like chaos....

I guess my question is, looking at the last election, was the message of that election really we need to help investors? I mean, the Dow is over 20,000. Are they the group that really needs the help? ...

The overview here is that all the wealth basically in the last 10 years has stuck to the top end. That's one of the reasons we have had all this political turmoil, as you know. So, it's kind of a hard sell to say, "We are going repeal Obamacare, but we are going to send more money to the people who have gotten the richest over the last 10 years." That's what this does, no? I am not a leftist; that's just true.

Man, when even Fox News breaks out the truth of the bill's awfulness, you just know it's gotta be bad....

Article after article appeared this week pointing out the fractures in the Republican Party over the Ryancare bill (we added two articles of our own to this flood, we should mention). But it wasn't just Republicans in Congress who got their licks in. Some of the most extreme conservative groups -- from the Koch brothers' Americans for Prosperity to the Club for Growth to FreedomWorks to Heritage Action -- all slammed the bill as well. Even Breitbart came out in opposition.

They were joined by many groups with actual health care experience, such as the American Medical Association, the American Hospital Association, and the AARP, all of whom expressed their disapproval of the Ryancare bill.

In fact, other than Paul Ryan, it was hard to actually find anyone on the Republican side who was speaking positively about the bill. Well, Trump did tweet out how wonderful everything is going, but that's kind of to be expected.

Trump himself is in a rather precarious position on Ryancare. He obviously was lying through his teeth throughout the entire campaign about how he had a secret healthcare reform plan that would "cover everybody" and be wonderful for all concerned. After he got elected, he swore up and down that just as soon as his Health and Human Services secretary was confirmed, that he'd be unveiling his magic plan, filled with rainbows and unicorns. That never happened, because Trump never had a plan at all. That's a key point that even the current media frenzy seems to be missing.

Instead, Trump was content to sit back and let Paul Ryan's famed wonkery solve the problem for him. The way Trump envisioned it, Ryan would announce his plan, the Republicans would all fall in line, and then they'd pass it and put it on his desk so he could sign something and loudly proclaim "Obamacare is dead!" That was the plan, at any rate. Trump -- again, obviously -- never cared about any of the details, as long as he could score political points.

But now Trump has been backed into being the arbiter of what is acceptable in the Obamacare replacement bill. He's jumped in with both feet on Ryan's side, and is attempting to rally Republicans behind the bill. The way Ryan sees it, Republicans in Congress have a "binary choice" -- vote for his bill without any major changes, or Obamacare will continue. Those are the only options Ryan sees, which he pointed out in a press conference: "We as Republicans have been waiting seven years to do this. This is the closest we will ever get to repealing and replacing Obamacare. The time is here. The time is now. This is the moment." My way or the highway, in other words.

Trump is (so far) backing Ryan up, to a point. He's been doing the carrot-or-stick version of mixing a charm offensive with naked threats to recalcitrant Republicans and conservatives. He sat down for dinner with Ted Cruz (who is not on board with Ryancare). He met with all the conservative groups who have come out against Ryancare. He's met with the Tea Partiers in the House. The message he's been giving them is that they can either pass this bill or face (his word) a "bloodbath" in the midterm elections. But Trump also seems to be willing to deal much more than Ryan, which led to an amusing Huffington Post article with the subtitle: "When One Parent Gives You The Answer You Don't Want...." Sean Spicer began pushing back on this notion in today's press conference, but like it or not Donald Trump has now become the de facto final say on what is acceptable in the Ryancare bill. The White House is also pre-emptively launching an attack on the Congressional Budget Office (which Paul Ryan eagerly seconded), because when the C.B.O. numbers arrive early next week, everyone knows they'll show that Ryancare falls far, far short of what Trump actually promised everyone.

The upshot is pretty ironic. Trump doesn't really care about the details, he just wants a bill to sign -- any bill. But now, he's going to be the arbiter of all those details, meaning he's taken ownership of the entire process he wanted to avoid. His choices are now uniformly bad: change the bill to make the House Tea Partiers happy, or see the bill get voted down in the House. If he does manage to do so, then the bill will likely be voted down in the Senate, as moderate Republicans balk at its stinginess. But the truly ironic thing is that if Ryancare passes, the people most negatively affected by it will be (pause for effect)... Trump voters.

Of course, it being the Trump Era, there was a lot going on this week outside of the big Ryancare fight. Now that Trump is president, when good numbers come out on the economy and unemployment, they are no longer "fake news," but instead prove what a wonderful job Trump's doing. Trump shows an amazing facility with Orwellian doublethink, since he's now happy with pretty much exactly the same numbers he was calling disastrous for Obama. Such is life in the Trump Era, though.

What else? Seems like Trump dodged a completely separate scandal with Mike Flynn, by firing him before the latest news even broke. Seems Flynn was -- all throughout the Trump campaign, mind you -- acting as a foreign agent for the Turkish government. Whoops! Forgot to mention that one, eh? Good thing Trump's already fired him, so he doesn't have to fire him all over again!

In other news about people sucking up to Trump to get a plum job, Jon Huntsman successfully got himself appointed ambassador to Russia, even though Trump ripped on his performance as ambassador to China during the campaign. We've got to wonder what particular Trump ass-kissing technique Huntsman used, since he might want to share a few tips with people like Mitt Romney and Chris Christie.

Speaking of people who got plum jobs for sucking up to Trump, Robert A. Heinlein once wrote a wise maxim: "Expertise in one field does not carry over into other fields. But experts often think so. The narrower their field of knowledge the more likely they are to think so." Ben Carson this week proved (once again) that he is Exhibit A in the proof of this saying. Carson finally won confirmation, so he decided to address the Housing and Urban Development staff for the first time. He said many other bizarre, head-scratching things during this speech, but the Carson quote that got the most attention was:

That's what America is about. A land of dreams and opportunity. There were other immigrants who came here in the bottom of slave ships, worked even longer, even harder for less. But they, too, had a dream that one day their sons, daughters, grandsons, granddaughters, great-grandsons, great-granddaughters might pursue prosperity and happiness in this land.

We'd bet that they had the dream of "I wish I never became a slave," personally. But so many others have pointed out Carson's idiocy that we merely mention it in passing.

OK, this has gone on long enough, so let's just whip through two stories that in normal times would have been all people were talking about all week long. The C.I.A. is in the WikiLeaks spotlight, after someone leaked what seems to be an entire toolbox of electronic surveillance techniques. And in Pennsylvania, Democrats have suffered a "ransomware" attack, where nefarious hackers hold all your data hostage while demanding large sums of money to release the data. This is the first such attack on a political party, and it could have very ominous overtones for the future of politics, so it's worth paying a little more attention to than it has so far received.

Finally, we have two humorous items to close the news roundup. From both the "you can't make this stuff up, folks" file and the infamous "A man in Florida..." category comes the headline of the week: "Miami Lawyer's Pants Erupt In Flames During Arsonist Trial In Court." Insert your own "pants on fire / lawyer" joke here.

Republicans tried to get Trump fans in the holiday spirit this week by offering a green "Make America Great Again" Trump hat. But they made two embarrassing errors while doing so. In the first place, Ireland's symbol is a shamrock, which is a three-leafed plant. There's a reason for this that involves Christianity and Saint Patrick, if you're interested. But the Trump hat instead had a four-leafed clover on it, which is a symbol of luck, not Ireland. They compounded this error by telling everyone to have a happy "St. Patty's Day" which prompted responses such as "He wasn't a hamburger patty!" from annoyed Irish folks. To close on yet another bit of pedantry, please remember next week to wish everyone a happy St. Paddy's Day!

[Which brings us to a program note -- there will be no Friday Talking Points column next week, since we'll be enjoying ourselves down at our local pub in celebration. This column will resume in two weeks' time.]

 

Most Impressive Democrat Of The Week

It doesn't quite rise to a MIDOTW award, but if you're looking for an interesting read on a very unconventional Democrat, check out the Huffington Post profile of "Volatile" Curtis Wylde (a.k.a. "Lion of the Lou" and the "Wolf of West County"), a minor pro-wrestler in the Midwest who was inspired to get involved in Democratic politics by Bernie Sanders. He not only got elected as a state delegate to the Democratic National Committee, but ran for Missouri's statehouse as well. He lost, but he got 36 percent of the vote by just spending $6,000 (to his opponent's $77,000), and may run for office in the future as well.

Wylde is now somewhat of a spokesman for the #DemEnter movement, which is trying to get Bernie supporters elected throughout the Democratic Party, to revive it from within. Wylde was at the Democratic National Convention last year, addressing the pro-Bernie protesters outside, stating: "I'm in the Democratic Party and I'm here to stay, so I have to take it over. All of you have to take it over!"

As we said, Wylde certainly earns an Honorable Mention for how far he's made it so far, and we'll certainly be keeping an eye on him in the future. Check the article out, it's a fascinating read.

This week, however, we're going to hand the Most Impressive Democrat Of The Week award to... a woman. Which woman? Well, we have to admit we're not sure, but whichever one the protesters were talking about in their "Day Without A Woman" rallies this week. That's a snarky way of being pedantic, once again, since we really think they should have gone with the plural, but then who are we to criticize political sloganeering (especially when we would lay ourselves open to charges of paternalism by doing so)?

All kidding aside, the women's movement is now at the highest point it has been in decades in American politics. This started almost spontaneously with the Women's March On Washington, the day after Trump was sworn in. So we are glad to see the effort continue, especially now that the weather's turned nicer (having attended inaugurations, we know how incredibly dedicated you have to be to protest anything in January in Washington).

More power to the women who organized this protest, and more power to women in general! Some of the organizers even got themselves arrested for forming a human wall in front of Trump Tower, which shows some real dedication to the cause.

So, snark aside, we're giving out the Most Impressive Democrat Of The Week to not just a woman, but every woman who took to the streets this week or otherwise showed support for the movement. We heartily applaud this type of protest, and hope to see a lot more of it in the future.

[We have to begin with a caveat -- because this is such an organic movement, we're not 100 percent sure this is the correct link for the main organizers of the protest. So if you have a correction or other links, please add them in the comments. Having said that, please congratulate International Women's Strike on their website's contact page, to let them know you appreciate their efforts.]

 

Most Disappointing Democrat Of The Week

We also have a group of protesters for the Most Disappointing Democrat Of The Week award, sadly. Here's the story, from a local Vermont news source, of what happened at Middlebury College during and after a scheduled speech by Charles Murray, one of the authors of the controversial book The Bell Curve:

Middlebury College Professor Allison Stanger was injured by protesters Thursday evening as she was escorting a controversial speaker from campus. She was treated at Porter Hospital and released. …

As Stanger, [Charles] Murray and a college administrator left McCullough Student Center last evening following [Murray's speech] they were "physically and violently confronted by a group of protestors," according to Bill Burger, the college's vice president for communications and marketing.

Burger said college public safety officers managed to get Stanger and Murray into the administrator's car.

"The protestors then violently set upon the car, rocking it, pounding on it, jumping on and try to prevent it from leaving campus," he said. "At one point a large traffic sign was thrown in front of the car. Public Safety officers were able, finally, to clear the way to allow the vehicle to leave campus.

"During this confrontation outside McCullough, one of the demonstrators pulled Prof. Stanger's hair and twisted her neck," Burger continued. "She was attended to at Porter Hospital later and (on Friday) is wearing a neck brace."

Here's another report of what happened, from the New York Times:

When Mr. Murray rose to speak, he was shouted down by most of the more than 400 students packed into the room, several witnesses said. Many turned their backs to him and chanted slogans like "Racist, sexist, anti-gay, Charles Murray go away!"

After almost 20 minutes, it was clear that he would not be able to give his speech, said Mr. Burger, the [college] spokesman. Anticipating that such an outcry might happen, Mr. Murray was moved to a separate room equipped with a video camera so that Allison Stanger, a Middlebury professor of international politics and economics, could interview him over a live stream. Mr. Burger said the administration felt strongly that Mr. Murray's right to free speech should be protected and that "no one should have the heckler's veto."

Once the interview began in the second room, protesters swarmed into the hallway, chanting and pulling fire alarms. Still, the interview was completed and officials, including Ms. Stanger, escorted Mr. Murray out the back of the building.

There, several masked protesters, who were believed to be outside agitators, began pushing and shoving Mr. Murray and Ms. Stanger, Mr. Burger said. "Someone grabbed Allison's hair and twisted her neck," he said.

After the two got into a car, Mr. Burger said, protesters pounded on it, rocked it back and forth, and jumped onto the hood. Ms. Stanger later went to a hospital, where she was put in a neck brace.

Sigh.

There's a line protesters shouldn't cross, and some in this crowd obviously crossed it. Now, you can argue about whether shouting down a scheduled speaker (the "heckler's veto") is a good tactic or not, but it is at heart a non-violent tactic. Preventing someone else from speaking may be rude as all get-out, but it doesn't hurt anybody. Whether it's effective or not is debatable, but it doesn't deserve automatic condemnation.

However, physically attacking not only a professor but also a car is beyond that line. That is closer to a riot than a protest. Violence is simply not justified in such a situation, period.

It is, in fact, counterproductive in the extreme, at least if you care about others being convinced to join your cause. Nobody's going to change their minds when they see a mob attacking a woman or a car. Plus, it is ironically showing the most extreme amount of intolerance possible.

If the second report is correct, then possibly this was the result of outside agitators -- which can be a problem at any political protest (from the left or the right, to be fair). But no matter who perpetrated the violence at Middlebury College, they have more than deserved a clear rejection of their tactics. Along with a Most Disappointing Democrat Of The Week award.

[Due to the anonymity of the violent protesters, we have no link to offer to contact them to let them know what you think of their actions, sorry.]

 

Friday Talking Points

Volume 428 (3/10/17)

Before we begin this week's talking points, we have to point to the final talking point from last week, which corrects the historical record from all the rampant Republican revisionism over how Obamacare was passed. Because the hypocrisy is so incredibly pungent right now that even Republicans are pointing it out.

Twisting one quote from Nancy Pelosi into saying something she wasn't implying caused Republicans to remember the Obamacare debate as one which happened unbelievably fast and without anyone getting a chance to see what was in the bill. This never actually happened. The entire process of passing Obamacare took over a year and had many votes -- each of which were completely scored by the C.B.O. and hashed out for months beforehand.

This isn't the way Republicans remember it now, but that is the truth. Which is why we direct everyone to Talking Point 7, from last week. Because right now, Republicans are doing exactly what they've long accused Democrats of doing. And even some Republicans are taking umbrage. So it seems a good time to set the record straight, once again.

OK, enough "old business," let's get on with this week's talking points!

 

1
   Trump should know all about McCarthyism

Before we get to ripping into Ryancare, there's one big point that needs making. Oh, and a side note -- we fully expect to see some more headlines begin with the exact same phrase in the future, if the past few weeks have been any guide: "Trump, Citing No Evidence, Accuses...."

"Last week, Donald Trump tweeted out a conspiracy theory about Barack Obama tapping his phone, and in his very first tweet he used the phrase 'This is McCarthyism!' Well, Trump ought to know all about that sort of thing, because one of the most influential mentors in Trump's entire life was Roy Cohn -- Joe McCarthy's sidekick. Cohn met Trump back in the 1970s, and they had a long relationship where Cohn taught Trump all sorts of McCarthyist tricks (some of which he still uses). It should also be noted that an hour later, Trump was back on Twitter attacking Arnold Schwarzenegger once again. Let's see, which American politician was it who was famous for attacking Hollywood celebrities, again? His name is right on the tip of my tongue...."

 

2
   There was no Trumpcare plan to begin with

This is the second big campaign promise Trump's broken in this regard (the other was his magic non-existent plan to defeat the Islamic State, if you've forgotten).

"Why is Donald Trump out there rallying support for Paul Ryan's repeal-and-replace plan in the first place? I distinctly remember Trump promising at each and every rally that he personally had the answers on how to replace Obamacare, and that he'd be rolling it out 'on Day One.' Remember that? It wasn't that long ago. His Trumpcare plan was going to be big. It was going to be beautiful. It was going to cover everybody, and not kick anybody off the insurance they had now. It was going to be cheaper for everyone, and better for everyone too. I distinctly remember him promising all of those things. But you know what? None of that happened. It was all a giant con job, folks. The very fact that Trump is now supporting Ryancare proves that there never was a Trumpcare plan to begin with. Chalk it up to just another of Trump's big lies and unfulfilled promises -- a list that is growing by the day."

 

3
   Need a dictionary, Paul?

Paul Ryan unintentionally got off the funniest line of the week, during his press conference (with PowerPoint slides!) explaining how wonderful Ryancare was. This one is a make-it-yourself talking point, because it's pretty easy to point out that what Ryan is describing is not the evils of Obamacare, but the actual definition of how health insurance works, at the most basic level. Here are Ryan's own words:

The fatal conceit of Obamacare is that we're just going to make everybody buy our health insurance at the federal level, young and healthy people are going to go into the market and pay for older, sicker people. So the young healthy person's going to be made to buy health care, and they're going to pay for the person, you know, who gets breast cancer in her 40s, or who gets heart disease in his 50s... the whole idea of Obamacare is... the people who are healthy pay for the people who are sick. It's not working, and that's why it's in a death spiral.

 

4
   Suck it up, Buttercup

This should really come as no surprise at all, to anyone.

"The numbers are starting to get crunched on Ryancare, and -- surprise, surprise! -- the people who will be most negatively affected by it are core Trump voters. Here's a rundown: those who stand to lose $7,500 or more in health insurance subsidies went for Trump by 58 percent to 39 percent. Those who will lose between five grand and $7,500 went for Trump 60-35. Those who will lose $2,500 to $5,000 went for Trump 49-45. So the more likely you are to be a Trump voter, the more likely it is that you'll be losing thousands of dollars under his 'big, beautiful' health care plan. Didn't P. T. Barnum have a saying about folks like this? I'm just asking...."

 

5
   Let's break the awfulness down

A hat-tip to Paul Waldman at the Washington Post, whose entire article could have been just pasted in as this week's talking points section. Waldman wrote the article "The New Republican Health Care Plane Is Awe-Inspiringly Awful," and his section headings are the bulk of the following talking point (just to give credit where it's due).

"OK, let's take a look at Ryancare and see what it accomplishes, one goal at a time, shall we? Ryancare undoes Obamacare's Medicaid expansion, which even some Republican governors have come to love. Also, the Medicaid trust fund will be drained a lot sooner than under Obamacare. Ryancare replaces direct subsidies, paid when health insurance is bought, with tax credits that people will likely have to wait until the end of the year to see -- which is a bridge too far for millions of American families. Also, these subsidies will be drastically slashed, meaning they'll be useless for millions who can't afford to make up the difference. Also, more of these credits will be given to people who don't need them, while the poorest get far less. Instead of paying a penalty for not having insurance to the government, Ryancare makes you pay the penalty to the insurance companies. Ryancare allows the insurance companies to charge older people five times what they charge younger people, instead of Obamacare's 3-to-1 ratio -- meaning a lot of seniors are going to have to pay a lot more money. Oh, and the icing on the Republican cake, of course -- Ryancare will give a huge tax cut to the wealthiest Americans, which specifically includes executives in the health industry who make more than $500,000 a year. What's not to like, right?"

 

6
   Screwing lottery winners

This one is just downright bizarre.

"Republicans from Sean Spicer on down have been touting the fact that the Ryancare bill is only about 60 pages long, as if shorter were always better when legislating. But amusingly enough, a full ten percent of the Ryancare bill deals exclusively with making life tougher for lottery winners. Yes, you read that correctly -- ten percent of Ryancare was devoted to making sure anyone who wins a lottery gets promptly kicked off health subsidies. This truly seems to be a solution in search of a problem, like much Republican legislation. Seriously, guys, it took ten percent of your entire bill to crack down on lottery winners? Really?"

 

7
   Robbing Peter to pay for the wall

This one is pretty unbelievable, which is why we saved it for last.

"The Trump White House had a brilliant new idea recently, that needs a lot more attention. First Trump promised everyone who would listen that Mexico would pay for his beloved border wall. Then he decided that he'd slap a big tariff on Mexican products at the border, meaning that American consumers would pay for his wall. Now, though, Trump seems to be considering an even-worse idea. From a recent report: 'The Trump administration, searching for money to build a border wall and fund a deportation force, is weighing significant cuts to the Coast Guard, T.S.A., FEMA, and other federal agencies focused on national security threats.' That's just stunning -- Trump is going to pay for his border wall by slashing the budgets of the actual people who do the actual work of making our country safe? As one unnamed U.S. security official said: "Cuts to Coast Guard are insane. Ask what it costs for U.S.C.G. security at Mar-a-Lago every weekend.' I'm still waiting for the outrage from Republicans -- you know, the outrage they would have been screaming if a Democrat ever proposed cutting national security funding to pay for a pet project -- but so far all I hear is the chirping of the crickets."

-- Chris Weigant

 

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Cross-posted at: Democratic Underground
Cross-posted at: The Huffington Post

 

187 Comments on “Friday Talking Points [428] -- Ryancare's Awfulness”

  1. [1] 
    Elizabeth Miller wrote:

    "Freedom's just another word for nothing left to lose."

    "Freedom? That's just somebody talkin' ..."

    The freedom from healthcare is what makes America great!

  2. [2] 
    Elizabeth Miller wrote:

    Ah ... good luck with that.

  3. [3] 
    Elizabeth Miller wrote:

    What Republicans don't know about insurance is a lot.

    What they don't know about healthcare insurance is a lot more.

  4. [4] 
    michale wrote:

    Oooooo KICK????? :D

    Had you bothered to read it, even some of it, you would have soon discovered that the bill contains amendments to the ACA. So Sean Spicer standing up there on his podium bragging about how much smaller the "R" healthcare plan is... 'cause they're simply amendments to the ACA, and they're still busy conning the sheeple who believe the BS without question. :)

    And yet...

    Oh, and that fever will not be covered by the new GOP Obamacare replacement plan, sorry.

    What part of "REPLACEMENT PLAN" do you not understand???

    I guess CW is one of those "sheeple" that has been "conned"...

    At least, according to you... :^/

    I tell ya, Kick.. It's amazing you have mastered the art of breathing... :D

  5. [5] 
    michale wrote:

    Of course, it being the Trump Era, there was a lot going on this week outside of the big Ryancare fight. Now that Trump is president, when good numbers come out on the economy and unemployment, they are no longer "fake news," but instead prove what a wonderful job Trump's doing.

    Unless, of course, yer the Left Whinery and the awesome economic report is ignored as "fake news".. :D

    What else? Seems like Trump dodged a completely separate scandal with Mike Flynn, by firing him before the latest news even broke. Seems Flynn was -- all throughout the Trump campaign, mind you -- acting as a foreign agent for the Turkish government. Whoops! Forgot to mention that one, eh? Good thing Trump's already fired him, so he doesn't have to fire him all over again!

    And yer evidence for this is a HuffPoop report?!!

    Let me dig up a link from InfoWars that "proves" the HuffPoop report is BS... :D

    n other news about people sucking up to Trump to get a plum job, Jon Huntsman successfully got himself appointed ambassador to Russia, even though Trump ripped on his performance as ambassador to China during the campaign. We've got to wonder what particular Trump ass-kissing technique Huntsman used, since he might want to share a few tips with people like Mitt Romney and Chris Christie.

    Funny how no one here seemed to mind all the sucking Obama got for plum ambassador jobs, eh??

    Ahhh yes.. The all powerful -D.... :D

    We'd bet that they had the dream of "I wish I never became a slave," personally. But so many others have pointed out Carson's idiocy that we merely mention it in passing.

    Of course, would you mention in passing THE ELEVEN TIMES that Obama compared slaves to immigrants??

    Would you want to comment on Obama's "idiocy"??

    Of course not.. :D

    However, physically attacking not only a professor but also a car is beyond that line. That is closer to a riot than a protest. Violence is simply not justified in such a situation, period.

    And yet, it's the Left Whinery's modus operandi more and more often..

    But I am glad to see it held up and condemned, CW...

    At least YOU have the courage to condemn such actions..

    No one here (NEN) has the integrity to do so..

    But if it were a Right Wingery violent protest, everyone here would be screaming hysterically to the high heavens....

    Hypocrisy, thy name is Left....

    As to the Talking Points??

    Remember when ya'all bashed the GOP for NOT having a REPLACEMENT plan???

    Now that they DO have a plan, ya'all bash the GOP for a plan..

    You seeing the pattern??

    No matter WHAT, ya'all bash the GOP.... :D

    Ya see where I am going with this?? :D

    And so begins another fun-filled weekend...

  6. [6] 
    michale wrote:

    Remember Odumbo's "Summer Of Recovery"???

    America's Labor Market Is Getting Better by Almost Any Measure

    America’s labor market might not be as great yet as President Donald Trump wants, but by almost any measure, it’s getting better.

    Employers added an above-forecast 235,000 positions in February, while measures of joblessness and underemployment improved, the Labor Department’s monthly report showed on Friday. Wage growth picked up and the share of prime-age Americans in the labor force rose to the highest since 2011, suggesting the economy’s strength is drawing people off the sidelines.

    While some of last month’s labor-market gains can be chalked up to unseasonably warm weather, particularly in construction, the figures are still solid and effectively seal a Federal Reserve interest-rate increase next week.
    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-03-10/labor-market-in-u-s-is-getting-better-by-almost-any-measure

    Yea, no one else does either... :D

    Kick said that no one here was talking about President Trump's (I just LOVE saying that. PRESIDENT Trump :D) awesome performance on jobs because they were laughing too hard..

    APPARENTLY, no one is laughing...

    Ya'all are crying in yer cheerios that President (there's that word again :D) Trump is the most awesomest POTUS when it comes to JOBS...

    Odumbo would have KILLED for such numbers!!! :D

    I know, I know... All this GOOD news for Americans really REALLY bothers the Left Whinery..

    Suck it up, buttercups.. It's only going to get worse..

    Worse for the Left Whinery, that is..

    Gonna get much MUCH better for Americans...

    But, that's always the way it is, eh??

    What's good for the country and good for Americans is always bad for the Left...

  7. [7] 
    michale wrote:

    And lo and behold..

    Not a SINGLE mention of Russian hacking or working with the Trump campaign..

    Not a SINGLE mention of AG Sessions and his so-called "lies"...

    I guess the Left Whinery has well and truly been spanked on those BS gems, eh?? :D

    Who could have POSSIBLY predicted that the the Left Whinery would find something new and shiny to distract them from their BS claims of Russian Hacking and AG Session's "lies"..???

    Oh... wait... :D

  8. [8] 
    altohone wrote:

    Hey CW

    You wrote that you don't know who the violent protestors are, and then you assume they are Democrats by giving them the Disappointing award?

    I agree with the condemnation, but the assumption makes no sense.

    No mention of the 6 Democrats who voted to confirm Ben Carson despite mentioning his nonsense?
    Talk about a group deserving the Disappointing award.

    No mention of the new boots on the ground in Syria either?
    Some are Marines there to fire Howitzers and Spicer called them "advisors"... and you say nothing? A Pentagon spokesman clearly contradicted Spicer's false characterization.
    The others are Rangers who are there to act as peacekeepers to prevent fighting between two groups of US allies... not to fight ISIS... and you say nothing?

    http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-39217015

    Yet another deployment to a sovereign nation without any action by Congress, using an AUMF from 16 years ago to fight a group that didn't even exist at the time WHILE stopping the fighting between two US allies... one of which fights alongside al Qaida... the group the AUMF was written to go after.

    This seems like a perfectly good way of going after Trump on a substantive issue.

    What gives?
    Is the subject off limits due to Democratic support? Because they're silent on the issue too.

    A

  9. [9] 
    michale wrote:

    Of course, would you mention in passing THE ELEVEN TIMES that Obama compared slaves to immigrants??

    Would you want to comment on Obama's "idiocy"??

    "Certainly it wasn't easy for those of African heritage who didn't come here voluntarily but were, in their own way, immigrants themselves"
    -Naturalization Ceremony, 2015

    "We say it so often, we sometimes forget what it means — we are a nation of immigrants. Unless you are one of the first Americans, a Native American, we are all descended from folks who came from someplace else — whether they arrived on the Mayflower or on a slave ship, whether they came through Ellis Island or crossed the Rio Grande."
    -Naturalization Ceremony, 2012

    Guess who said that??

    Hint: It WASN'T Ben Carson...

    Once again, partisan hypocrisy is rampant...

  10. [10] 
    altohone wrote:

    Hey CW

    correction to comment 8

    "Is the subject off limits due to (some) Democratic support?"

    There actually are some elected Democrats in Congress who support the huge number of Democratic voters opposed to the constant warfare to address the consequences of the unnecessary and illegal war that created them...

    ... and there is a group of both Dems and Republicans opposed to the continuing use of the 2001 AUMF for ongoing military interventions.

    And back to Spicer's false claims about "advisors" in Syria, here is the article that includes the quote from the Pentagon spokesman contradicting him completely-

    https://theintercept.com/2017/03/10/marines-tasked-with-firing-howitzers-in-syria-are-just-advisers-says-sean-spicer/

    A

  11. [11] 
    altohone wrote:

    9

    False equivalency.

    As usual, you ignore the parts that don't make them equivalent.

    Not unlike the way you ignore that Ryancare isn't Trump's plan (because he lied about having a plan) by calling it the "Republican plan"... as if the differences about the origin and results are inconsequential when CW's point was about noting the important differences.

    You're spinning like a partisan hack.

    A

  12. [12] 
    michale wrote:

    False equivalency.

    As usual, you ignore the parts that don't make them equivalent.

    And, as usual, you provide NO FACTS to indicate exactly why you think it's a false equivalency...

    There is no false equivalency.. Both Odumbo and Carson equated African slaves as immigrants..

    Not unlike the way you ignore that Ryancare isn't Trump's plan (because he lied about having a plan) by calling it the "Republican plan"... as if the differences about the origin and results are inconsequential when CW's point was about noting the important differences.

    I ignore pretty much anything to do with the health insurance crap.. It bores me..

    I just love pointing out the Left Whinery hypocrisy... :D

    That's my only dog in the hunt...

  13. [13] 
    altohone wrote:

    12

    Obama provided context and added qualifiers Carson did not.
    The subtle differences prove vital, and we all know you won't expend the effort to understand them... because you'd rather pretend you are correct.

    Similarly, when you ignore the "boring" details in the health insurance debate, you miss the parts that expose your claims of hypocrisy to be false, while ignoring the exposure of Trump's lies, thereby violating your previous commitment to call out the bull on your own side and your claims of integrity... the true hypocrisy here.

    A

  14. [14] 
    michale wrote:

    Obama provided context and added qualifiers Carson did not.
    The subtle differences prove vital, and we all know you won't expend the effort to understand them... because you'd rather pretend you are correct

    Yea, that's what you claim..

    Yet, you provide NO FACTS to support that claim..

    Funny how that is, eh?? :D

    Similarly, when you ignore the "boring" details in the health insurance debate, you miss the parts that expose your claims of hypocrisy to be false, while ignoring the exposure of Trump's lies, thereby violating your previous commitment to call out the bull on your own side and your claims of integrity... the true hypocrisy here.

    yada yada yada...

    Still no facts to support anything...

    Yaaaaawwwnnnnnnn :D

  15. [15] 
    michale wrote:

    https://www.yahoo.com/news/trump-trudeau-unlikely-alliance-023547290.html

    I guess being even handed and rational is a Canadian trait.. :D

  16. [16] 
    michale wrote:

    The Trump Economy Keeps 'Unexpectedly' Topping Forecasts
    http://www.investors.com/politics/editorials/why-is-the-economy-suddenly-doing-better-than-expected/

    WHO could have POSSIBLY predicted this!!???

    Oh.... wait... :D

    The Left is crying in their cheerios.... :D

  17. [17] 
    goode trickle wrote:

    Odumbo would have KILLED for such numbers!!! :D

    Why let a little thing like, ummm what are those things you like? Oh... Got it FACTS... get in the way of a good rant.

    https://data.bls.gov/timeseries/CES0000000001?output_view=net_1mth

    Just Sayin.....

  18. [18] 
    michale wrote:

    Why let a little thing like, ummm what are those things you like? Oh... Got it FACTS... get in the way of a good rant.

    I am tired of links that go nowhere relevant...

    You have facts that refute the good news, state them...

  19. [19] 
    neilm wrote:

    So the BLS numbers for Feb are down from the same numbers in 2016 and 2015.

    Not very impressive.

    On the plus side, now that 45 thinks he is some sort of genius at job creation, he and all his minions accept the BLS numbers.

  20. [20] 
    goode trickle wrote:

    I am tired of links that go nowhere relevant...

    Yeah, you are right, how silly of me to use the Bureau of Labor Statistics... It is not as if they are the ones that create the job numbers.

    You have facts that refute the good news, state them...

    235K is great news, even if it is the preliminary number, Jobs are jobs right? Except for if they happen under Obama...It's not like he had 237k in February of 2016 or 238k in February of 2015....

    It's not like Obama got crapped on and the GOPers told all of us it was not good enough or any thing like that....

    But, I am not interested in debating the labor numbers it bores me....

    I just love pointing out the Right Whinery hypocrisy...

  21. [21] 
    michale wrote:

    Yeah, you are right, how silly of me to use the Bureau of Labor Statistics... It is not as if they are the ones that create the job numbers.

    You can pull stats out your ass til the cows come home..

    But unless you can show RELEVANCE, they are nothing but shit... :D

    It's not like Obama got crapped on

    Awwwww po' widdle Obama had some people who didn't treat him like the second coming...

    waaaaaaa waaaaaaaa

    It's not like ya'all have been crapping on Trump for a year now..

    The difference between Odumbo and President Trump is President Trump is actually bringing the jobs home...

    And that just pisses ya'all off to holy hell, don't it? :D

  22. [22] 
    michale wrote:

    But, I am not interested in debating the labor numbers it bores me....

    I just love pointing out the Right Whinery hypocrisy...

    Good.. Then you understand EXACTLY where I am coming from... :D

  23. [23] 
    michale wrote:

    <235K is great news, even if it is the preliminary number, Jobs are jobs right? Except for if they happen under Obama...It's not like he had 237k in February of 2016 or 238k in February of 2015....

    ANd how were Odumbo's OTHER numbers??

    Number of Americans leaving the workforce...??

    Yea.. That's what I thought...

    It's funny how ya'all cherry pick data..

    But the current report, EVERYTHING is up....

    Puts Odumbo to shame..

    Where he belongs...

    Want to talk about Russian hacking or AG Sessions lying??

    No???

    Didna think so.. :D

  24. [24] 
    goode trickle wrote:

    It's not like ya'all have been crapping on Trump for a year now..

    Awwwww po' widdle Trump had some people who didn't treat him like the second coming...

    Uh, oh....Kick, since you have M's address can you dispatch the Waaaambulance?

    The difference between Odumbo and President Trump is President Trump is actually bringing the jobs home...

    So just so as I am on the same page...Trump gets ONE good jobs report and he is doing better than the last 6 years of consecutive job growth?

  25. [25] 
    michale wrote:

    Awwwww po' widdle Trump had some people who didn't treat him like the second coming...

    Ya see how important the '-D' is to you?? :D

    Thank you for proving my point... :D

    Uh, oh....Kick, since you have M's address can you dispatch the Waaaambulance?

    Is that who was sniffin' around my front porch last night??

    Now it makes sense.. :D heh

    So just so as I am on the same page...Trump gets ONE good jobs report and he is doing better than the last 6 years of consecutive job growth?

    Yea... And Democrats had a "Summer Of Recovery"...

    Sorry, GT....

    You Left Wingers have absolutely NO CREDIBILITY when talking about economic progress..

    NONE... ZERO... ZILCH.... NADA...

    Oh sure.. You can cherry pick a stat here or there... But that's nothing but cherry picked BS...

    It's UNDENIABLE that Americans are more confident in their government since President Trump took office..

    Stock Market is through the roof...

    ALL of the hysterical fear mongering from ya'all has been PROVEN to be false... :D

    And that just pisses ya'all off to no end!! :D

  26. [26] 
    Kick wrote:

    michale [64, 65, 66] {moved forward} [4]

    BBWWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

    Look at all your frantic posts... you're unhinged! LOL

    Thanks for letting me know I got under your thin skin. :)

    This is the best jobs report overall than Obama ever had..

    EVERYTHING is plus.. Not just JOBS creation, but also Americans in the workforce and unemployment..

    "EVERYTHING is plus." Seriously? **LOL** You can believe the BS from the bubble of Wingnutia or try reading the actual report.

    FEBRUARY 2017 BLS JOBS REPORT FACTS
    * Total nonfarm payroll employment increased by 235,000 in February, and the unemployment rate was little changed at 4.7 percent.
    * The number of unemployed persons, at 7.5 million, changed little in February.
    * The number of long-term unemployed (those jobless for 27 weeks or more) was essentially unchanged.
    * In February, the labor force participation rate, at 63.0 percent, and the employment-population ratio, at 60.0 percent, showed little change.
    * The number of persons employed part time for economic reasons (sometimes referred to as involuntary part-time workers) was little changed at 5.7 million in February.
    * In February, 1.7 million persons were marginally attached to the labor force, little different from a year earlier.
    * Among the marginally attached, there were 522,000 discouraged workers in February, little changed from a year earlier.

    LITTLE CHANGED FROM A YEAR EARLIER!

    But hay.. I am a fair guy... :D

    I would say you're unhinged. LOL

    I'll give you a chance to salvage your bruised and battered ego..

    I'm fine. :)

    Find me an instance during yer guy Obama's years where Job Creation was so high, Americans in the workforce was so high and unemployment went down..

    I have nothing to prove since this is a BLS report with little change written all through it.

    You can't because it doesn't exist..

    Thank you so much for your ever-ready eagerness to supply your very own proof of your incessant gullibility. I would guess I'm not the only one here who can't stop laughing at the fact that you don't even realize how ridiculous you sound. The only seismic shift in the BLS report is the change in the tone they're using to describe the report in the bubble of Wingnutia.

    Then... "Don't believe those numbers."
    Now.... "Would you believe those numbers!"

    There's been little change in the numbers. Stay tuned for a future report where they go back to blaming Obama!

    Oh, and that fever will not be covered by the new GOP Obamacare replacement plan, sorry.
    -CW.COM

    I guess yer claiming that CW is one of the "sheeple" that's been "conned", eh???

    No, that crap there is a shiny new turd of your very own making, and you're so full of it you posted it twice. *LOL* So I guess you were that creep in third grade who started shit all the time then went running to teacher. ROTFLMAO :)

    I tell ya, Kick.. It's amazing you have mastered the art of breathing... :D

    Thanks for letting us know your breathing is an art that had to be "mastered." It explains quite a lot when you give us those little glimpses into your reality that an involuntary action we take for granted is something you've had to work tirelessly to learn. You've already admitted you're a knuckle-dragger, and now you've practically confessed to drooling mouth breathing! Eeeewwwwww! Sad!

  27. [27] 
    michale wrote:

    Apologies..

    When ya'all invoke partisan bigotry, my gloat-mechanism goes into overdrive....

    I'll try and rein it in... :D

  28. [28] 
    michale wrote:

    Look at all your frantic posts... you're unhinged! LOL

    Yea, you keep saying that..

    And yet, I am right at practically every turn..

    Howz that "AG SESSIONS LIED" BS workin' out for ya?? :D hehehehe

    I would say you're unhinged. LOL

    Yea, but you ALSO said that Trump would LOSE the election..

    So yer opinion has absolutely NO CREDIBILITY... :D

    I have nothing to prove since this is a BLS report with little change written all through it.

    TRANSLATION: I have cherry picked STATS... NOTHING else.. :D

    No, that crap there is a shiny new turd of your very own making, and you're so full of it you posted it twice. *LOL* So I guess you were that creep in third grade who started shit all the time then went running to teacher. ROTFLMAO :)

    YOU were the one that said "'cause they're simply amendments to the ACA, and they're still busy conning the sheeple who believe the BS without question. :)"

    Those are YOUR words..

    So, everyone who thinks it's a REPLACEMENT plan are "sheeple" who bought into the "con"...

    YOUR WORDS, snowflake.. :D

    Thanks for letting us know your breathing is an art that had to be "mastered."

    Ahhhh the old "I KNOW YOU ARE BUT WHAT AM I" rebuttal...

    Head injury...

    HAS to be... :D

  29. [29] 
    goode trickle wrote:

    Want to talk about Russian hacking or AG Sessions lying??

    Sure....

    Sessions lied plain and simple. He paid for his trip to the GOP convention out of his campaign funds, proceeded to speak at a Heritage foundation event about Trumps campaign and directly after his Campaign speech he met with the Russian ambassador.

    It's not like he said “I have been called a surrogate at a time or two in that campaign, and I did not have communications with the Russians."

    Some folks want to make the claim he actually met with the Russians three times...I pretty much set it at two. To my line of thought a press the flesh line at a reception/speech where you are just herded on through the line, press the flesh, say hi, hows the spying going? doesn't really a meeting make.

    So we are left with one meeting in an official capacity and one as a campaign shill... and his statement that he had no communications.

    Now the Russian hacking thing .... must have something there as no one has said booo on the GOP side after Comey's meeting about it yesterday ( or maybe it was the day before, my sense of time is a bit messed up at the moment).... Personally, if the GOP really wanted to put this to bed they would call for a special prosecutor that both sides can agree to as being non-partisan and let them go to town. Either there is something there or there isn't but in either case the electorate in general deserves a clear answer on a matter of this importance.

    The simple fact is that the only things we have to formulate our opinions on are the words of a bunch of partisan hacks...Unless they declassify the good stuff we will never know for sure.

  30. [30] 
    Kick wrote:

    michale [6]

    Kick said that no one here was talking about President Trump's (I just LOVE saying that. PRESIDENT Trump :D) awesome performance on jobs because they were laughing too hard..

    And that got under his extra-thin skin, and he's been unhinged and can't get over it. *LOL*

    APPARENTLY, no one is laughing...

    Wrong! They're laughing their asses off because they know that Trump spent his campaign repeating over and over that the numbers were phony and the minions posted comment after comment that said the very same thing like bleeting sheeple, and now they are annointing their messiah over those numbers... with little to no change in the actual numbers! *LOL*

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Qn0DoUQdcc

    Even Sean Spicer is laughing because he's in on the fact that you've been conned. *LOL* :)

  31. [31] 
    goode trickle wrote:

    The difference between Odumbo and President Trump is President Trump is actually bringing the jobs home...

    Speaking of bringing jobs home and hire American, buy American...

    Where are the Trumpco manufacturing jobs?....

  32. [32] 
    neilm wrote:

    So 45 is turning out to be worse than everybody thought. He is lying more than ever, his health care plan doesn't exist and the joke from Ryan is going to achieve three things:

    1. Most people's premiums are going to go up for worse coverage
    2. The top 1% are going to get a big tax cut
    3. Millions of people are going to get thrown off the plans

  33. [33] 
    neilm wrote:

    Speaking of bringing jobs home and hire American, buy American...

    You mean like the American steel they aren't using for the pipelines :)

  34. [34] 
    altohone wrote:

    Kick

    No worries if there is nothing to say, but just in case you missed it, I did a late night response (comment 76) to your very nice responses in comment 68 in "From the archives".

    I would have brought it forward to the new thread (at the time) but didn't realize the new column was up.

    Anyway, I was just pining for better subject matter after perusing the squabbles here today.

    A

  35. [35] 
    michale wrote:

    And that got under his extra-thin skin, and he's been unhinged and can't get over it. *LOL*

    Man, yer obsession with me is bordering on psychotic.. First stalking and now this...

    Wrong! They're laughing their asses off

    Yea, that's what you keep saying..

    Except NO ONE backs you up on it.. :D

  36. [36] 
    michale wrote:

    Where are the Trumpco manufacturing jobs?....

    You mean the manufacturing jobs that TRIPLED government jobs this month?? :D

  37. [37] 
    michale wrote:

    So 45 is turning out to be worse than everybody thought.

    Yea, ya'all keep saying that....

    And yet, the FACTS clearly show differently.. :D

    1. Most people's premiums are going to go up for worse coverage
    2. The top 1% are going to get a big tax cut
    3. Millions of people are going to get thrown off the plans

    Again, that's what ya'all keep saying.

    And yet, ya'all have been WRONG at every prediction..

    Why should anyone believe ya'all now???

  38. [38] 
    michale wrote:

    GT,

    Sessions lied plain and simple.

    Prove it..

    You can't, because IT is a lie..

    EVERYONE here with more than two brain cells to rub together has conceded that AG Sessions didn't lie..

    The simple fact is that the only things we have to formulate our opinions on are the words of a bunch of partisan hacks...Unless they declassify the good stuff we will never know for sure.

    Exactly..

    We'll never KNOW...

    But that doesn't stop ya'all from hurling accusations left and right..

    But at least you concede that they are BASELESS and FACTLESS accusations...

    Admitting you are full of shit is a good first step.. :D

  39. [39] 
    michale wrote:

    Yea, that's what you keep saying..

    Except NO ONE backs you up on it.. :D

    Except NOW everyone will fall all over themselves, "Oh yea.. We're laughing!! We're laughing!!"

    You watch... :D

  40. [40] 
    Kick wrote:

    michale [28]

    Yea, but you ALSO said that Trump would LOSE the election..

    So yer opinion has absolutely NO CREDIBILITY... :D

    OMG. It's your daily go-to bullshit! You've got very little else so pounding on that one is like admitting your ignorance. :)

    TRANSLATION: I have cherry picked STATS... NOTHING else.. :D

    Translation: I'm mischaracterizing your facts because I'm from the land of Wingnutia where facts are ignored when they don't fit our worldview.

    So, everyone who thinks it's a REPLACEMENT plan are "sheeple" who bought into the "con"...

    YOUR WORDS, snowflake.. :D

    So in your little "mind" that gets twisted around to one of your broad generalizations, and then you spew out utter nonsense as if it were fact. Why can't you let it sink in to your pea-sized brain that slapping labels like "everyone" on people is your bullshit and not mine? It's one of your go-to safe spaces. You lump different people into your neat little categories and either praise them or demonize them. And still your labeling bullshit doesn't change the fact that the Republican healthcare plan is a series of amendments to the ACA and not remotely the repeal that was promised by Trump to the bleeting sheeple that he managed to con. Trump said he had a plan, but he had nothing but a con... I don't see anyone else here who fell for it besides you. *LOL*

    Please twist my words some more and make up more shit. I am enjoying how stupid you look dragging your knuckles while demonstrating your mastery of drooling mouth breathing. :)

    Ahhhh the old "I KNOW YOU ARE BUT WHAT AM I" rebuttal...

    No... It's the old "I'm can breathe through my eyeballs while watching you drool" rebuttal.

    Head injury...

    Well, that would explain your drooling; thank you ever so much for sharing, and might I suggest that you close your mouth and open your eyes. :)

  41. [41] 
    goode trickle wrote:

    You mean the manufacturing jobs that TRIPLED government jobs this month?? :D

    Time for you to break out yoor cherry picked stats....

    I was referring to the manufacturing of TRUMP apparel you know the ties, suits, dress shirts, eyeglasses and other accessories.

    How about the TRUMP Home line that includes amongst it's offerings chandeliers, mirrors, bedding, table lamps, cabinets, sofas, barstools, cocktail tables.

    Let's not forget all of the branded amenities for the TRUMP Hotels.

  42. [42] 
    goode trickle wrote:

    But at least you concede that they are BASELESS and FACTLESS accusations...

    and I assume that you have concrete facts to present that they are factless and baseless? Or are you just going to make some more of your statements calling them facts and not presenting a shred of back up, as you so often demand of us.

    Admitting you are full of shit is a good first step.. :D

    yes it is....you should try it sometime...

  43. [43] 
    Kick wrote:

    A01 [34]

    No worries if there is nothing to say, but just in case you missed it, I did a late night response (comment 76) to your very nice responses in comment 68 in "From the archives".

    Excellent. I may very well have missed it. I will go check directly. Why do I feel as if I've been rescued?

    Anyway, I was just pining for better subject matter after perusing the squabbles here today.

    Quite right... and thus and anon I escape! :)

  44. [44] 
    goode trickle wrote:

    Prove it..

    I like to use a little thing called a dictionary...for the most part it kind of is the arbiter of words. The dictionary defines a lie as, used with reference to a situation involving deception or founded on a mistaken impression.

    Sessions made the below statement.

    Senator Franken, I’m not aware of any of those activities. I have been called a surrogate at a time or two in that campaign and I did not have communications with the Russians, and I’m unable to comment on it.

    So firstly, he presented this answer as a dodge to the question being asked, nothing to bad there, it's what politicians do... Just bullshit as per the norm.

    Secondly, it has been proven and admitted to that he met with the Russians once as a senator in his office and once again at the GOP convention after a Trump campaign speech. Yet in the above he states clearly " I did not have communications". Ergo he lied.

    Now can he be brought up on Perjury charges? Probably. Can the intent that he intentionally set out to be deceptive about his communications with Russians be proven? Probably not... Did his answer as an effort to duck the question create a mistaken impression? most certainly.

    Therefor he lied. After all it is what politicians do...

  45. [45] 
    altohone wrote:

    Kick
    43

    Got it.
    Response is up.

    A

  46. [46] 
    neilm wrote:

    My sister's husband, when they were dating, would always pay for dinner when they went out. Quite the gentleman? Well he only paid for what was eaten, if my sister left food on the plate he would make her pay the share she didn't eat. It is a long running joke in my family - one that has made it across the 5,000 miles to the West Coast.

    My wife was thinking of this today when we heard on the news that there was going to be an investigation into 45's claim that Obama wire tapped him.

    New rule (per my wife): if the Republicans put together a commission to investigate some wild accusation with no supporting evidence and it then turns out to be a wild accusation with no supporting evidence, 45 has to pay, out of his own pocket, the cost of the investigation. Maybe that will stop the BS tweets.

  47. [47] 
    michale wrote:

    Kick,

    OMG. It's your daily go-to bullshit! You've got very little else so pounding on that one is like admitting your ignorance. :)

    Deflection..

    You were the one who showed complete and utter ignorance..

    Ergo, you have no credibility..

    Well, that would explain your drooling; thank you ever so much for sharing, and might I suggest that you close your mouth and open your eyes. :)

    Once again, the old I KNOW YOU ARE BUT WHAT AM I rebuttal..

    It's like discussing things with a 3rd grader.. :^/

    Come back and talk to me when you grow up, snowflake.. :D

  48. [48] 
    michale wrote:

    I was referring to the manufacturing of TRUMP apparel you know the ties, suits, dress shirts, eyeglasses and other accessories.

    Yea, cuz THAT is so important to the American people.. :^D

    and I assume that you have concrete facts to present that they are factless and baseless?

    It's not up to me to PROVE a negative..

    The Left Whinery has made accusation after accusation.. NONE of which is backed up by ANY facts..

    Admitting you are full of shit is a good first step.. :D

    yes it is....you should try it sometime...

    As has been aptly PROVEN beyond any doubt, I always concede when the facts clearly warrant it.

    You should try it some time..

    Secondly, it has been proven and admitted to that he met with the Russians once as a senator in his office and once again at the GOP convention after a Trump campaign speech. Yet in the above he states clearly " I did not have communications". Ergo he lied.

    No, he did not. Of course, you ignore Franken's question which was did Sessions have communications with Russian officials about the Trump campaign...

    Sessions answers, "I did not have communications"..

    The answer was factual and truthful and complete...

    Anyone who says that AG Sessions lied is lying...

    It's that simple...

  49. [49] 
    michale wrote:

    New rule (per my wife): if the Republicans put together a commission to investigate some wild accusation with no supporting evidence

    Except, of course, there IS factual evidence that Obama had Trump Tower bugged and surveiled...

    Which explains why Dems all of the sudden shut up about AG Sessions "lied" and Russian "hacking"...

  50. [50] 
    michale wrote:

    Ergo he lied.

    And yet, every Weigantian with more than 2 brain cells to rub together concedes that AG Sessions did NOT lie.. Did NOT commit perjury..

    So, who am I to believe??

    Your hysterical, factless and baseless accusations??

    Or the facts and reality???

    I am, as always, going to go with facts and reality.. :D

  51. [51] 
    michale wrote:

    Therefor he lied. After all it is what politicians do...

    And yet, we ONLY hear about it from ya'all when it's a politician with a '-R' after their name??

    Why is that??

    Because it's perfectly acceptable to ya'all when Democrats lie...

    There's a word for that.

    Look it up in the dictionary you said you like to use... :D

  52. [52] 
    michale wrote:
  53. [53] 
    michale wrote:

    Because it's perfectly acceptable to ya'all when Democrats lie...

    McCaskill is a PERFECT example..

    She lied about meeting a Russian Ambassador and then, when caught, she lied AGAIN..

    Pelosi lied about meeting the Russian Ambassador...

    Democrats lie as much as, if not MORE, than Republicans..

    When was the last time ANYONE here (sans the Grand Poobah hisself) condemned a Democrat for lying??

    I have been here in Weigantia for over a decade..

    It's NEVER happened that anyone here, unprompted, condemned a Democrat for lying..

    The facts CLEARLY prove that no one here really cares about lying...

    Ya'all only care when a GOP'er does it...

  54. [54] 
    altohone wrote:

    53

    "It's NEVER happened that anyone here, unprompted, condemned a Democrat for lying..""

    There you go lying again.

    You're not "mistaken".
    You're not "forgetful".
    You're not "omitting".

    You're flat out lying.

    And, you've once again demonstrated that you don't know what "facts" are.

    A

  55. [55] 
    michale wrote:

    "It's NEVER happened that anyone here, unprompted, condemned a Democrat for lying..""

    There you go lying again.

    You're not "mistaken".
    You're not "forgetful".
    You're not "omitting".

    You're flat out lying.

    And, you've once again demonstrated that you don't know what "facts" are.

    ACK!!! Damn!!!

    I racked my brain to think who MIGHT have, without any prompting, condemned Democrats for lying... I would have thought it would be JL, but yer right.. While I can't recall any specific instance where you did, I am sure you have..

    Don probably has too....

    Remember, the key is UNPROMPTED.... It's easy to condemn someone for lying after prompting...

    But the true test of character is to condemn the lie without any prompting or urging..

    And yes, if anyone would have done it, it would be you and Don...

    My sincerest and most heartfelt apologies to both of you...

  56. [56] 
    michale wrote:

    A man is sitting at a hotel restaurant having dinner when he notices a very attractive woman sitting a couple tables away..

    As he watches, the woman sneezes and her glass eye pops out of her eye socket and hurls past the man. He snags it in mid-air and gallantly hands the eye back to the woman..

    The woman exclaims, "Oh my god, I am so embarrassed. Thank you. Please allow me to buy you dinner for having bothered you."

    The man accepts and the woman joins the man at his table.

    The woman is stunningly beautiful, an excellent conversationalist and the man discovers that they have a lot in common.

    At the end of the evening, the man gets her phone number and comments, "You are a most charming woman. Are you this nice to every man you meet?"

    "Not at all", the woman replies. "You just happened to catch my eye."

    Baa daa dum...

    :D

  57. [57] 
    michale wrote:
  58. [58] 
    michale wrote:

    While Democrats Fume, Trump Becomes the Jobs President

    It’s the economy, stupid. We’ve heard the phrase so many times over the past 25 years that it has descended into cliché if not outright parody. But it’s been repeated so often because it highlights a basic truth about politics: jobs matter. And since the election, the job growth has been extraordinary.

    It’s been so strong that it prompted Jamie Dimon, president and CEO of Chase, the nation’s largest bank, a registered Democrat and Hillary Clinton supporter, to back President Trump’s economic agenda. Dimon declared it has “woken up the animal spirits” in the United States. His comments came in the midst of a spate of good economic news released this week.

    This is all good news for the country and for a president who has promised to put wage and job growth front and center in his administration. Trump’s plans on immigration, infrastructure, taxes, regulation, and trade all aim at improving the lives and prosperity of ordinary American citizens If they continue, the results of the past few months will be considered the downpayment on a broader resurgence of American economic might and the reinvigoration of the middle class.

    Against the new administration’s ambitious goals, Democrats are stuck with increasingly transparent attempts to undermine the president with phony narratives endlessly repeated by their media surrogates. The stranglehold the mainstream media had on American opinion was broken long ago and Americans understand the game played by the Progressive Left-Democrat-Media opinion complex. And they either look for other sources of news and opinion or they discount for the expected collusion when they hear Democrat talking points repeated as objective fact.

    Forget the nakedly partisan attempts to create a media narrative about Russian hacking and so undermine the legitimacy and effectiveness of President Trump and his administration. Forget too “the Resistance” which exists more as a social media meme than a real life phenomena—progressive street violence notwithstanding. What matters is jobs, not phony outrage cooked up by professional agitators.

    This week’s economic reports were so uniformly positive that even financial news titan Bloomberg, a reliable defender of Davos class perquisites, was forced to admit that “America’s labor market is getting better by almost any measure.” They were hard-pressed to give the president any credit, but that hardly matters.

    With revelations that the Obama Administration may have taken the unprecedented step of using the nation’s intelligence apparatus to spy on the Republican presidential nominee’s campaign and news that Russia’s largest bank has hired Clinton crony Tony Podesta (John’s older brother) to lobby the U.S. government to end sanctions that Democrats’ Russian hacking narrative is destined to collapse under the weight of its own internal contradictions.
    https://amgreatness.com/2017/03/11/democrats-fume-trump-becomes-jobs-president/

    No matter where ya turn...

    It's good news for Americans and America and bad news for Democrats.... :D

  59. [59] 
    Elizabeth Miller wrote:

    Michale,

    If you want to compare Obama and Trump with regard to job creation and stock market rises occurring under their respective administrations, then you must look at the situation both men inherited in terms of jobs and stock market values.

    If you do that, then you can clearly see which president had the greatest accomplishments on jobs and stock market values, by any measure you choose.

    It is laughable to hear President Trump talk about the disaster he inherited and to hear him take credit for the environment that has created over 200,000 jobs last month.

    Let's see what his accomplishments are on the job and stock market fronts by the time of the midterm elections ... if he's still in office by then.

  60. [60] 
    Elizabeth Miller wrote:

    It's good news for Americans and America and bad news for Democrats.... :D

    This kind of thinking represents a huge part of the problem for your country and I'm not sure how you move beyond it toward a normal kind of nation.

    At this point, this particular cockeye optimist isn't sure that is even possible anymore. :(

  61. [61] 
    michale wrote:

    If you want to compare Obama and Trump with regard to job creation and stock market rises occurring under their respective administrations, then you must look at the situation both men inherited in terms of jobs and stock market values.

    Why??

    While that may matter if we were arguing a comparison of ability, OK.. That might have some relevance...

    But when it comes to American confidence, there is simply no comparison..

    American confidence and faith in the future is at an all time high....

    Let's see what his accomplishments are on the job and stock market fronts by the time of the midterm elections ... if he's still in office by then.

    By all means, yes.. Lets..

    And the BIGGEST indication of success will be how Democrats fare in the 2018 elections...

    This kind of thinking represents a huge part of the problem for your country and I'm not sure how you move beyond it toward a normal kind of nation.

    But that's just it.. Americans are REALLY pumped and excited about the direction this country is heading..

    And it's *ALL* due to the Trump Effect..

    And THAT doesn't bode well for Democrats...

  62. [62] 
    michale wrote:

    Russia’s largest bank has hired Clinton crony Tony Podesta (John’s older brother) to lobby the U.S. government to end sanctions that Democrats’ Russian hacking narrative is destined to collapse under the weight of its own internal contradictions.

    Ya REALLY gotta laugh at that, eh? :D

  63. [63] 
    Paula wrote:

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/bernie-sanders-fake-news-russia_us_58c34d97e4b0ed71826cdb36?

    Russian and Russian-baked trolls filling Bernie-supporting FB groups/comments/feeds with anti-Clinton misinformation in an effort (fairly successful) to split the left.

  64. [64] 
    michale wrote:

    Russian and Russian-baked trolls filling Bernie-supporting FB

    Question:

    Are those the same Russians that have just hired Democrats to end the US Sanctions??

    hehehehehehehe

  65. [65] 
    michale wrote:
  66. [66] 
    michale wrote:

    Question:

    Are those the same Russians that have just hired Democrats to end the US Sanctions??

    hehehehehehehe

    I mean, honestly...

    How can the Democrats scream hysterically about the evils of the Russians but then turn around and WORK for them to the detriment of the United States???

  67. [67] 
    michale wrote:

    White House advisor says, If you like your health care plan, you can keep your health care plan

    Ya wanna know what the hilarious thing is?

    If that turns out to be bullshit, **NONE** of ya'all will be able to say ANYTHING against it!!!

    :D

    Karma's a bitch, ain't it!!?? :D

  68. [68] 
    goode trickle wrote:

    One last quickie before I go wheels up again....

    One has to wonder how much different the current health care debate would be if congress was forced to utilize the bronze level plans vs. the gold plans they get now.

    Congress if anything, only does one thing, it looks out for itself. Dem, Repub, it does not matter when it comes to something that impacts them.

    But knowing congress they probably would go F-you and create a carve out for themselves ( which I expect them to do anyways, only it will be buried in a non related bit of legislation).

  69. [69] 
    neilm wrote:

    If that turns out to be bullshit, **NONE** of ya'all will be able to say ANYTHING against it!!!

    Oh yeah? Watch me. If you think I'm stopping pointing out lies when I see them because you think there might be hypocrisy you have another think coming.

    And this is going to be a whopper even by 45 standards. He promised better healthcare for less money and that everybody would be covered.

    Remember 45's promises:

    1. Better coverage
    2. Lower premiums
    3. Everybody covered - just like Canada and Scotland
    4. Poor who can't afford premiums will be covered by the Government

    Here is a summary for "Y'all":

    http://ijr.com/2016/02/537107-5-times-donald-trump-praised-socialized-healthcare/

    And just a little reminder from 45 himself:

    "We must have universal healthcare...I'm a conservative on most issues but a liberal on this one. We should not hear so many stories of families ruined by healthcare expenses..."

    "The America We Deserve" by 45

  70. [70] 
    neilm wrote:

    Even Pence is getting nervous about the disastrous Trumpcare - his only achievement in Indiana was to adopt Obamacare - and now that is going to be reversed. Pence was so hopeless the Indiana Republican Party encouraged 45 to take him off their hands, assuming that Americans weren't stupid enough to vote 45 and Pence into the White House. It takes some doing to get your own state party to beg someone to replace their Governor. However, I expect we will see similar pleas from the Republican Party for 45 himself when they finally get over the surprise of winning last November.

  71. [71] 
    Kick wrote:

    goode trickle:

    Awwwww po' widdle Trump had some people who didn't treat him like the second coming...

    Uh, oh....Kick, since you have M's address can you dispatch the Waaaambulance?

    michale

    Is that who was sniffin' around my front porch last night??

    Now it makes sense.. :D heh

    Since you brought it up, let me just set the record straight. Nosing around the slums of Florida? No worries; the front porch on your shack is the last place I'd go. If I were you, I would not rule out EQ's irate customers, though.

    Now *THAT* makes sense! :D heh

  72. [72] 
    neilm wrote:

    I expect in 2018 we will see a collage of 45's promises about healthcare with the results of the first year of coverage - with 10 million losing their coverage, old people's premiums exploding, many of 45 supporters railing against him and the Republicans - and that is if they actually implement something - if they just repeal then it is going to be a bloodbath - sadly literally.

  73. [73] 
    neilm wrote:

    Another anecdote from 45:

    “A friend of mine was in Scotland recently. He got very, very sick. They took him by ambulance and he was there for four days. He was really in trouble, and they released him and he said, ‘Where do I pay?’ And they said, ‘There’s no charge.’ Not only that, he said it was like great doctors, great care. I mean we could have a great system in this country.”

    Instead we have a profit driven system. Because when I'm suffering from a medical emergency the first thing I'm thinking is "How do I get the best price for an ambulance? How do I choose which doctor treats me. What brand of bandages should I pick?. Since I'm paying and all that."

    This is the biggest lie Americans have been sold, that medical coverage is improved by the profit motive. If it was, why would be pay twice as much for poorer results?

    Don't believe me? Try this:

    http://www.visualcapitalist.com/u-s-healthcare-system-global-outlier-not-good-way/

  74. [74] 
    neilm wrote:

    BTW, from the chart in the last post (2014 numbers):

    UK: Cost: $4,000 per person; Life expectancy: 81; Coverage: 100%

    Canada: Cost: $4,500 per person; Life expectancy: 82; Coverage: 100%

    US: Cost: $9,000 per person; Life expectancy: 79; Coverage: 89.6%

  75. [75] 
    altohone wrote:

    Paula
    63

    I was going to post that article too.

    Did you catch the mention of Hillary's paid trolls targeting Bernie and his supporters (link provided in the article)???

    Nothing like whining about the "Russians" (or Macedonians as the evidence in the article actually emphasized) while Hillary's campaign was guilty of the exact same thing.

    It's also funny that Hillary lost her monumentally incompetent presidential campaign to the worst candidate ever because she lost working class voters in the rust belt which her campaign completely ignored... NOT THE LEFT.

    Wesleyan recently released an academic study that exposed how Hillary's advertising was the LEAST focused on POLICY from any candidate in the last four elections... including Trump, Bush and McCain... and also ignored the Rust Belt while she and her genius staff were misallocating resources trying to win over Republicans in Arizona and the South.

    It turns out, that attacking your opponent without offering voters something to vote FOR is unconvincing... and they even noted that was an UNDERSTATEMENT.

    Have you figured out who Hillary's billionaire "schmo" who sowed division in the Democratic party is yet?

    I can give you another clue since you aren't paying attention to what is happening in your own party.

    A

  76. [76] 
    neilm wrote:

    This one made the rounds a while ago, but it is the first time I've seen it:

    http://damn.com/they-asked-each-family-to-go-shopping-a-buy-a-normal-weeks-worth-of-food-the-last-photo-gives/

    Remember, 45 wants to zero out foreign aid and stop refugees from Sudan.

  77. [77] 
    neilm wrote:

    OK, if Trumpcare passes it will be important to understand HSAs. Part of the bill doubles the allowed contributions (from about $6,600/year to $13,000/year).

    Basically if you expect to have $2,000 in medical bills in the year, you can either:

    1. Put $2,000 into an HSA tax free, then use the debit visa card for your account to pay for co-payments, your share of coverage, your deductible (which has to be $2,600 or more to allow you to have an HSA), etc.

    2. Pay the $2,000 out of after tax money (i.e. the real cost will be something like $2,500 or more or pre-taxable income).

    Thus the more you can put in your HSA tax free, the better off you are. But it helps a lot to be well off so you can afford to park $13,000/year tax free for the future (you can invest the money, and I think the profits are also tax free - it seems to be like a 529 in this respect).

    This means that people in the top brackets will get another $7,000 deduction, and thus about 35% of that, or a $2,450 tax cut.

    Something to remember when your premiums go through the roof now that healthy people can opt out of coverage.

  78. [78] 
    neilm wrote:

    The Kaiser analysis estimated that a 60-year-old in a rural, Trump-voting West Virginia county, earning $30,000 a year, would face an $8,000 reduction in tax credits under the Republican plan. When reminded of this finding on Sunday, Price said this failed to take into account that the person in question should have more choice under the Republican plan’s marketization.

    “Who knows what that 60-year-old wants? I know that the federal government doesn’t know what that 60-year-old wants,” said Price.

    I know - $8,000 help in paying for their healthcare premiums you dimwit.

  79. [79] 
    neilm wrote:

    BTW - you can see from comment 78 where the money for the tax cut from comment 77 is going to come from.

    Basically 45 supporters are going to be paying the rich another $2,500/year so they can cover their medicare costs when they retire.

    Did anybody expect anything else from the Republicans?

  80. [80] 
    neilm wrote:

    A report by the Kaiser Family Foundation, a healthcare nonprofit, concluded last week: “Generally, people who are older, lower-income, or live in high-premium areas (like Alaska and Arizona) receive larger tax credits under the ACA than they would under the American Health Care Act replacement.”

    2018 anybody?

  81. [81] 
    neilm wrote:

    OK, I'm off to my neighbors for Paella night (I'm doing the Seafood one this time). Sorry to have swamped the comment feed.

  82. [82] 
    altohone wrote:

    neil
    69

    I gotta laugh at our resident trumpling having a trumper tantrum about the justified attacks that are sure to come.

    He seems to think he can tell y'all what you can and can't do based on phony standards his own side violated or set the precedent for over the last eight years.

    Nice Trump quotes too.
    It's a shame he isn't standing up to the Republican establishment and pushing for Single Payer as his quotes suggest would be the smart, effective and cheaper approach.

    Who would have guessed he'd let himself be led around by the nose by career politicians catering to Big Money?

    A

  83. [83] 
    Elizabeth Miller wrote:

    Price said this failed to take into account that the person in question should have more choice under the Republican plan’s marketization.

    This clearly demonstrates how misunderstood healthcare insurance is in the United States.

    An up-wing Democratic leader would start setting the record straight on this issue and fast if he or she cared about moving the country forward in a positive way.

  84. [84] 
    Elizabeth Miller wrote:

    Neil [77],

    Okay, your healthcare system is way too complicated to ensure healthy outcomes.

    If I had to navigate a system like that, I'd be totally lost. Unless I had some serious health issues. In which case, I'd be lost and very probably dead.

  85. [85] 
    Elizabeth Miller wrote:

    Something to remember when your premiums go through the roof now that healthy people can opt out of coverage.

    That's just insane but, goes a long way toward explaining why the greatest country on the face of the planet can't figure out how to put a sound healthcare insurance plan into effect.

    This may be difficult for Americans to understand but, some things are not about freedom of choice.

  86. [86] 
    Elizabeth Miller wrote:

    Neil,

    Far from needing to apologize for a flurry of posts like that, you really need to be persistent on this issue and keep those posts coming.

    In fact, you should consider an offer to Chris to pen a piece under his excellent 'Guest Author' series!

  87. [87] 
    michale wrote:

    Since you brought it up, let me just set the record straight. Nosing around the slums of Florida? No worries; the front porch on your shack is the last place I'd go. If I were you, I would not rule out EQ's irate customers, though.

    I am getting that icky stalky feeling again...

    What a sad pathetic person you must be to actually have to pay someone for my past SOLELY because you get your ass kicked all the time here...

    Sad...

  88. [88] 
    michale wrote:

    One has to wonder how much different the current health care debate would be if congress was forced to utilize the bronze level plans vs. the gold plans they get now.

    You know what's funny??

    A lot of people asked that during the TrainWreckCare debacle..

    Funny how ya'all didn't care about it then, eh??

    Once again, proof positive that the ONLY thing that matters is the '-X' after a person's name..

    Congress if anything, only does one thing, it looks out for itself. Dem, Repub, it does not matter when it comes to something that impacts them.

    Where was such bipartisan spirit when TrainWreckCare was being created???

    Ahhh That's right.. The POTUS had a '-D' after his name back then.. :^/

    But knowing congress they probably would go F-you and create a carve out for themselves ( which I expect them to do anyways, only it will be buried in a non related bit of legislation).

    It's what Democrats did back then..

    Did you care then?? No you did not..

    Ergo, you shouldn't care now..

  89. [89] 
    michale wrote:

    Neil,

    Oh yeah? Watch me. If you think I'm stopping pointing out lies when I see them because you think there might be hypocrisy you have another think coming.

    Oh, I know you will...

    The POTUS has an -R- after his name, so you will claim lies all up and down the board, even if there aren't any....

    And this is going to be a whopper even by 45 standards..

    And you have ALWAYS been right with yer Trump predictions, eh? :D

    But credit where credit is due.. You have the best track record here..

    You have been wrong hundreds and hundreds of times, but ya have actually been right once or twice.. :D

  90. [90] 
    michale wrote:

    I expect in 2018 we will see a collage of 45's promises about healthcare with the results of the first year of coverage - with 10 million losing their coverage, old people's premiums exploding, many of 45 supporters railing against him and the Republicans - and that is if they actually implement something - if they just repeal then it is going to be a bloodbath - sadly literally.

    Yea.. And NOT-45 is going to win in a 50-state sweep..

    :D hehehehehehehehe

  91. [91] 
    michale wrote:

    Something to remember when your premiums go through the roof now that healthy people can opt out of coverage.

    Funny how you didn't complain about premiums going thru the roof when it was Obama's CrapCare that was pushing that..

    Why is that??

    Oh, that's right.. Obama has a '-D' after his name so it got a pass...

    Textbook definition of hypocrisy...

  92. [92] 
    michale wrote:

    Oh, I know you will...

    The POTUS has an -R- after his name, so you will claim lies all up and down the board, even if there aren't any....

    But your claims will have absolutely no credibility because you have no moral foundation to make those claims..

    That's my point..

  93. [93] 
    michale wrote:

    Even Pence is getting nervous about the disastrous Trumpcare - his only achievement in Indiana was to adopt Obamacare - and now that is going to be reversed. Pence was so hopeless the Indiana Republican Party encouraged 45 to take him off their hands, assuming that Americans weren't stupid enough to vote 45 and Pence into the White House. It takes some doing to get your own state party to beg someone to replace their Governor. However, I expect we will see similar pleas from the Republican Party for 45 himself when they finally get over the surprise of winning last November.

    Can you PROVE any of that???

    No??

    Didn't think so... :D

    Nothing but wishful thinking..

    The exact same kind of wishful thinking that gave us President Trump.... :D

  94. [94] 
    michale wrote:

    Since you brought it up, let me just set the record straight. Nosing around the slums of Florida? No worries; the front porch on your shack is the last place I'd go. If I were you, I would not rule out EQ's irate customers, though.

    Ahhhh I get it..

    The Retroactive Stalker will go back in time to find every cragislist post you ever made until he finds something embarrassing you said, even if you posted it three years ago. After that, whenever you post anything new, the Retroactive Stalker will link to the old post(s) in an effort to discredit you.

    SHARING TROLL. Also known as the TOU Violator, this psycho will find out your personal information and post it on message boards when you anger him.

    It all makes sense now....

  95. [95] 
    michale wrote:

    Since you brought it up, let me just set the record straight.

    Actually, it was GT who brought it up..

    But why confuse your martini-addled brain with facts...

  96. [96] 
    michale wrote:

    https://www.yahoo.com/news/brexit-set-begin-bill-enters-final-stages-020554858.html

    OHMYGODS!!!!!

    BREXIT IS HAPPENING!!!!

    THE WORLD AS WE KNOW IT WILL END!!!!

    Oh... wait... That was the hysterical fear mongering used to describe the actual vote...

    Oh well... Hysterical fear mongering is ALWAYS recyclable...

    Just look at the Democrat Party... :D

  97. [97] 
    John M wrote:

    Michale wrote:

    "Ya'all are crying in yer cheerios that President (there's that word again :D) Trump is the most awesomest POTUS when it comes to JOBS...

    Odumbo would have KILLED for such numbers!!! :D"

    Trump is NOT awesome. Obama had the EXACT SAME numbers on job creation if not in fact BETTER.

    Jobs created: February 2017 235,000 under Trump

    February 2016 237,000 under Obama

    February 2015 238,000 under Obama

    So much for Trump being anything special! Where was your awesome praise for Obama, Michale, when he was creating even better jobs numbers than Trump, Hmmm????

  98. [98] 
    John M wrote:

    Michale wrote:

    "Where was such bipartisan spirit when TrainWreckCare was being created???"

    It was there when Democrats ACCEPTED 160 Republican amendments to the Affordable Care Act during a year long debate and hearings on the subject which included CBO estimates every step of the way.

    Tell me, where is the similar Republican solicitation of Democratic input this time around? CRICKETS...

  99. [99] 
    michale wrote:

    Trump is NOT awesome. Obama had the EXACT SAME numbers on job creation if not in fact BETTER.

    Obama had a single similar number here and there..

    But Obama *NEVER* had such a completely positive JOBS report..

    So much for Trump being anything special! Where was your awesome praise for Obama, Michale, when he was creating even better jobs numbers than Trump, Hmmm????

    Where was the American Confidence under Obama that President Trump has??

    Answer: NON-EXISTENT..

    It was there when Democrats ACCEPTED 160 Republican amendments to the Affordable Care Act during a year long debate and hearings on the subject which included CBO estimates every step of the way.

    Bullshit... Complete and utter bullshit...

    The GOP asked for 2 things.. Insurance across state lines and tort reform..

    But the special interest groups that OWN the Democrat Party said NO..

    This is fact...

  100. [100] 
    altohone wrote:

    Hey Kick,

    You don't seem to be a fan, but I am curious about your thoughts on this article-

    https://theintercept.com/2017/03/13/rand-paul-is-right-nsa-routinely-monitors-americans-communications-without-warrants/

    In the comments under that article someone wrote-

    "Hmmm… I’m interpreting that first sentence as reading, “any leaks that reveal lying by officials are often criminalized yet justified even if they come from sources accredited by the CIA, NSA or MI.”

    This of course refers to various legal issues surrounding the Espionage Act of 1917, an act that the Supreme Court has not to date addressed vis-à-vis the constitutionality of applying the Espionage Act to leaks made to the American public.

    As per Daniel Ellsberg:

    “Without reform to the Espionage Act that lets a court hear a public interest defense – or a challenge to the appropriateness of government secrecy in each particular case – Snowden and future Snowdens can and will only be able to “make their case” from outside the United States.

    “As I know from direct chat-log conversations with him over the past year, Snowden acted in full knowledge of the constitutionally questionable efforts of the Obama administration, in particular, to use the Espionage Act in a way it was never intended by Congress: as the equivalent of a British-type Official Secrets Act criminalizing any and all unauthorized release of classified information. (Congress has repeatedly rejected proposals for such an act as violating the First Amendment protections of free speech and a free press; the one exception to that was vetoed by President Clinton in November 2000, on constitutional grounds.)”

    -
    -

    As per our previous discussion, the actions we take abroad may not be violations of our Constitution, yet they can be used to do just that.

    This is why leaks from whistleblowers that go beyond constitutional violations can be justified.

    In our conversation under "From the Archives", I asked for an example from you, and would still like to hear your response.

    A

  101. [101] 
    John M wrote:

    Michale wrote:

    "OHMYGODS!!!!!

    BREXIT IS HAPPENING!!!!

    THE WORLD AS WE KNOW IT WILL END!!!!"

    YET, it is FUNNY, how you FAILED to point out that the major thrust of the article you provided a link to was all about, and I quote from the article:

    "The risks to Britain of its vote to leave the EU were laid bare on Monday when Scotland's nationalist government announced a new independence vote, pre-empting this week's expected start of the Brexit process.

    Prime Minister Theresa May could announce as early as Tuesday that she is triggering the Article 50 process of withdrawing from the European Union, putting Britain on course to leave by March 2019 after four decades of membership.

    Scottish First Minister Nicola Sturgeon has long warned that largely pro-European Scotland would not accept a damaging break with the EU -- and on Monday she made good on her threat.

    "I will now take the steps necessary to make sure that Scotland will have a choice at the end of this process," she said at a hastily convened press conference in Edinburgh.

    This would be "a choice of whether to follow the UK to a hard Brexit or to become an independent country, able to secure a real partnership of equals with the rest of the UK and our own relationship with Europe", she said.

    The Scottish National Party (SNP) leader said she would next week begin seeking authority for a vote between autumn 2018 and early 2019 -- before Britain leaves the EU."

  102. [102] 
    John M wrote:

    Michale wrote:

    "But Obama *NEVER* had such a completely positive JOBS report.."

    BULLSHIT. Obama had month after month of completely positive jobs reports, Trump has had ONE.

    "It was there when Democrats ACCEPTED 160 Republican amendments to the Affordable Care Act during a year long debate and hearings on the subject which included CBO estimates every step of the way.

    Bullshit... Complete and utter bullshit..."

    You can DENY the FACTS all you want Michale, but those ARE the FACTS, whether you like them or not. Go back an review your history, and you will see I am right. Calling it bullshit won't change the FACTS simply because you don't like them.

    If insurance across state lines and tort reform are such wonderful things, then why don't Republicans simply add them to the existing Obamacare to make it better, instead of, as Gov. Kasich of Ohio said, throwing the baby out with the bathwater???

  103. [103] 
    michale wrote:

    "The risks to Britain of its vote to leave the EU were laid bare on Monday when Scotland's nationalist government announced a new independence vote, pre-empting this week's expected start of the Brexit process.

    And....????

    BULLSHIT. Obama had month after month of completely positive jobs reports, Trump has had ONE.

    prove it..

    You can't because it's complete bullshit..

  104. [104] 
    michale wrote:

    If insurance across state lines and tort reform are such wonderful things, then why don't Republicans simply add them to the existing Obamacare to make it better, instead of, as Gov. Kasich of Ohio said, throwing the baby out with the bathwater???

    Because CRAPCARE is in a Death Spiral and NOTHING can save it..

    This is fact..

  105. [105] 
    Paula wrote:

    http://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/3/10/14881200/trump-health-care-promises

    Trump’s embrace of more centrist positions on health care and retirement security was a crucial aspect of his campaign, and there was enough campaign-season tension between Trump and the GOP leadership that a voter could be forgiven for assuming Trump meant what he was saying.

    He did not. Trump ran and won promising to cover everyone, avoid Medicaid cuts, and boost funding for opioid abuse treatment. He is now lobbying Congress to pass a bill that does none of those things. Instead, millions will lose insurance and Medicaid spending will be sacrificed on the altar of tax cuts for the rich.

    See, Trumpie thought he'd just come in and wave his hands and the GOP would do what he wanted. But the GOP wants to destroy the social safety net and send even more money upwards, not provide security for 99% Americans. Furthermore, Trumpie didn't understand any of the issues, contradictions, difficulties, etc., he just thought he could make a few pronouncements and everything would be great!

    So -- I'm willing to believe that, for minutes at a time, Trumpie liked the idea of "fixing" healthcare and covering everyone. He'd get big kudos for that.

    And, had he the will to really do it, and the determination, and the intellectual stamina and heft, he could have secured himself an honorable place in history. But he has none of those things, so the minute the whole thing began to take work, he started bailing.

    The GOP tells him they have a bill and it's great! He says "fine". Then everyone-who-isn't-a-moron-or-sadist in the country balks -- and he says "I'm bored. I wanna be the hero NOW. If you don't genuflect at this shitty bill from Paul Ryan about which I know virtually nothing, I'm gonna let Obamacare FAIL and blame it on the Democrats and the public can go ahead and die!"

    Jesus wept.

  106. [106] 
    michale wrote:

    I'm gonna let Obamacare FAIL and blame it on the Democrats and the public can go ahead and die!"

    Maybe if DUMBOCRATS actually created a viable program, it wouldn't be dying!

    "We're just leaving him here! Drowning's his decision!"
    -Operation Petticoat

    :D

  107. [107] 
    Kick wrote:

    michale [87]

    I am getting that icky stalky feeling again...

    I'd venture a guess that every poster on this board knows exactly how you feel. :)

    What a sad pathetic person you must be to actually have to pay someone for my past SOLELY because you get your ass kicked all the time here...

    No... I'm a badass. :) And you really are ignorant if you think I'd spend a dime on you or actually visit your doublewide. What a sad delusional little man you must be to actually believe that you "kick" anyone's "ass" on this board. One can read 5 of your posts, and they've heard every one of your tired arguments. You really are monotonous and tiresome.

    And you really think repeating the same shit over and over is an ass kicking? I thought it was an act, but you're really that ignorant? Wow. :)

    Us "hypocrites" who've heard your repertoire a thousand times are still waiting on your posts about how Donald Trump lies like a rug. Let it go! We'll wait. *LOL*

  108. [108] 
    Kick wrote:

    michale [94]

    Ahhhh I get it..

    Paranoid troll says what? Too funny. Yeah, we get it; you've lost it. This is awesome!

    Thank you ever so much for additional confirmation that I got under your super-thin skin by posting the two letters: E and Q.

    Now this here is some monotonous shit from you that really is entertaining. :)

  109. [109] 
    Kick wrote:

    Hey, Al

    Isn't it good to have friends in DC? Paranoid troll doesn't understand how that works. Perhaps you could enlighten him, please. :)

  110. [110] 
    Paula wrote:

    http://talkingpointsmemo.com/dc/cbo-coverage-numbers

    Twenty-four million people would lose their insurance over the next 10 years under Republican legislation being pushed to repeal Obamacare, the non-partisan Congressional Budget Office said Monday.

    Surprising no one with functioning synapses.

    Next up? Which set of lies will the GOP trot out in response? Probably a bit of everything as they desperately try to see if anything sticks.

  111. [111] 
    Kick wrote:

    michale [95]

    Actually, it was GT who brought it up..

    You enjoying your trip down Paranoid Lane? I sure am.

    Was it GT who accused me of sniffing around his porch? No, that was all your creation.

    http://www.chrisweigant.com/2017/03/10/ftp428/#comment-96486

    So you put some more quarters in the conspiracy meter, and now you want to shift the blame to GT? It really is instructive that you'd give us all this wonderful glimpse into your psyche. :)

    But why confuse your martini-addled brain with facts...

    Martinis? Yuck. Your lies don't bother me a bit... just reinforces your modus operandi; keep that whining bullshit coming. Your penchant for conspiracy theories and paranoia is showing, and it's breathtaking! :)

  112. [112] 
    Kick wrote:

    Paula [110]

    Twenty-four million people would lose their insurance over the next 10 years under Republican legislation being pushed to repeal Obamacare, the non-partisan Congressional Budget Office said Monday.

    Thank you, Paula. So Neil was pretty much right on the money there.

    Surprising no one with functioning synapses.

    So true.

    Next up? Which set of lies will the GOP trot out in response? Probably a bit of everything as they desperately try to see if anything sticks.

    I know, right? This should get interesting. Their current 66 pages of amendments to the ACA are DOA in the Senate. :)

  113. [113] 
    michale wrote:

    I'd venture a guess that every poster on this board knows exactly how you feel. :)

    There is only ONE person who has dug up another person's past in a vain and lame attempt to silence someone..

    That's you, snowflake..

    Classic stalker and classic troll moves..

  114. [114] 
    michale wrote:

    I mean, honestly..

    How utterly and totally PATHETIC does a total luser have to be to dig up someone's past that's almost two decades old, SOLELY because theyare getting their ass smeared across the floor left and right in a political blog...

    I have really met some lusers here in Weigantia, but someone who actually digs into a person's past almost two decades???

    That's the ULTIMATE in luser-dom...

    And what is so HILARIOUS is that your lame attempt to extort me into silence has actually had absolutely NO EFFECT whatsoever on my postings or frequency! :D

    Yer nothing, sweet cheeks. Your "information" is nothing, your character is nothing, your integrity is NOTHING... :D

    And everyone here is laughing their asses off at how I am totally demolishing ANY shred of character you THINK you have.. :D

    Live with that, bitch.. :D

  115. [115] 
    michale wrote:

    http://www.mcclatchydc.com/opinion/article138103703.html

    President Trump is NOT Obama..

    President Trump is actually doing things right.. The way AMERICAN leaders are supposed to do thing...

    President Trump is another Ronald Reagan...

    And that just pisses ya'all off to no end.... :D

  116. [116] 
    michale wrote:

    CBO Sees 24 Million More Uninsured, $337 Billion Deficit Cut in Coming Decade With GOP Health Plan
    Drop in number of insured would result in part because people would opt to go without coverage

    https://www.wsj.com/articles/cbo-estimates-14-million-more-uninsured-next-year-under-gop-plan-1489436927

    Ya'all see the point??

    If Americans don't WANT to be insured, they don't have to...

    It's called FREEDOM and LIBERTY...

    I think something in the founding papers of this great country espoused a LOT on those two subjects..

    Odumbo and the Dumbocrats forgot that..

    THAT is why they were thrown out....

    It is... to laugh... :D

  117. [117] 
    michale wrote:

    If only... oh if only someone had dug up embarrassing incidents in my past, they MIGHT have been able to threaten and extort me to shut me up..

    BBBWWWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

    Luuuuu huuuuuuu huuuuuuu serrrrrrrrr

    :D

  118. [118] 
    ListenWhenYouHear wrote:

    Kick,

    Yeah...you've DEFINITELY gotten to him! Very impressive!

  119. [119] 
    michale wrote:

    Yeah...you've DEFINITELY gotten to him! Very impressive!

    Oh of course..

    Now I have a new chew toy that has PROVEN she has to stalk me and dig into my past almost 20 years to TRY and find a way to silence me... She can't argue the issues and the facts, so she has to try extortion..

    I mean, the bitch is totally off her rocker...

    In that, you are right. She has "gotten" to me..

    She has PROVEN that she can't handle rational and adult debate, but rather has to try blackmail and extortion..

    But ya know what's REALLY sad???

    That you actually approve...

    So much for your claim of your LEO background....

    I kinda figured you were total bullshitting about your cop background..

    This just proves it....

  120. [120] 
    michale wrote:

    http://thefederalist.com/2017/03/13/scott-pruitt-is-absolutely-right-about-carbon-dioxide/

    Ahhhhhhhhh

    It's nice to have REAL SCIENCE back into government...

    It's a welcome change from the Obama years of CHICKEN LITTLE, THE SKY IS FALLING!!! THE SKY IS FALLING!! claptrap... :D

    Happy days are here again!!! :D

  121. [121] 
    michale wrote:

    https://www.nytimes.com/2017/03/13/magazine/democratic-party-election-trump.html

    Who could have POSSIBLY predicted that the Democrat Party would become the Party Of NO..

    Oh... wait.... :D

  122. [122] 
    michale wrote:

    http://www.investors.com/politics/columnists/europes-lesson-teaches-us-dont-go-green/

    And more facts from Neil's "alma mater" Investors Business Daily.... :D

    Boy oh boy, did YA'ALL back the wrong horse!!! :D hehehehehehe

  123. [123] 
    Kick wrote:

    A01 [100]

    You don't seem to be a fan, but I am curious about your thoughts on this article-

    https://theintercept.com/2017/03/13/rand-paul-is-right-nsa-routinely-monitors-americans-communications-without-warrants/

    There is a law that was passed in 1998... the Intelligence Community Whistleblower Protection Act... that does provide government workers with additional options. Under the ICWPA, the concerns of Snowden could have been raised with the office of the Inspector General at NSA or by speaking to congressional intelligence committees in the Senate or House in order to at least attempt to avoid any violation of the Espionage Act... in a perfect world, of course.

    In addition, President Obama signed an EO on October 10, 2012 (well before Snowden's leak), with further directives protecting whistle-blowers.

    https://fas.org/irp/offdocs/ppd/ppd-19.pdf

    Although Obama's EO does not specifically address the rights of contractors (we shouldn't even have), I think Snowden joining Booz with the specific intent to steal documents is his undoing, no matter to whom he ultimately gave those documents. In my mind, that he actively sought to collect documents that he had no idea what they contained undermines his whistle-blower claim.

    If someone's child decided to post their parents' residence alarm code on Facebook as a form of protest because s/he believed his/her freedom was being curtailed, putting the entire home at risk, I think his Mom and Dad would be justified to punish him accordingly.

    Lastly, from a strictly legal point of view, I actually think due to Greenwald's efforts that Edward Snowden should return to the States and take his chance in front of a jury of his peers. I think he'd likely get that one juror.

  124. [124] 
    Kick wrote:

    A01 [100]

    My response got ate by the moderator. :)

  125. [125] 
    michale wrote:

    WikiLeaks implied in a tweet Monday that they are set to “publish many [Central Intelligence Agency] or [National Security Agency] intercepts” of German Chancellor Angela Merkel ahead of her visit to the U.S.

    “Terrified talk in US national security circles that WikiLeaks is going to publish many CIA or NSA intercepts of Merkel tonight or tomorrow,” WikiLeaks tweeted. This release would come a week after WikiLeaks published internal CIA documents about the agency’s hacking operations.
    http://dailycaller.com/2017/03/13/wikileaks-implies-they-are-set-to-release-wiretapped-communications-of-merkel/

    Rut Roh..... :D

    Doesn't bode too well for the Odumbo Administration.. :D hehehehehehehe

  126. [126] 
    Kick wrote:

    michale [113]

    There is only ONE person who has dug up another person's past in a vain and lame attempt to silence someone..

    Oh. My. God. You really are a paranoid troll who seems incapable of understanding the concept of a simple phone call to a friend. And when did I try to silence you? It never happened. I said I could bring you down off your high horse, which I have already demonstrably accomplished, but I never once, not once, tried to silence you. In fact, all I've ever said is keep your shit coming.

    Please keep your shit coming. You are exposing your inner paranoid troll, and it's freaking awesome!

    Paranoid troll can't quite grasp the concept that anyone who wished to silence him need only block out his posts with Tamper Monkey. This ain't rocket science, and your ignorance is showing if you think I'm trying to silence you when I can do that with one click. Thank you to Charles Brown, Esq. wherever you may be! :)

    Did you have anymore lies or anything else ridiculous you'd like to impart? Please let it all go! I am waiting with bated breath because you are nothing if not entertaining in your troll paranoia!

    p.s. We hypocrites are still waiting for your big long post about what a liar Donald Trump is. Please write it for us, please!

    Please, troll... I want some more! -- Oliver! with a Twist ;)

  127. [127] 
    Kick wrote:

    michale [114]

    I mean, honestly..

    Dumb paranoid troll! This is the classic qualifier sign that a lie is going to follow. Doesn't sound like any LEO worth a hang that I know. :)

    How utterly and totally PATHETIC does a total luser have to be to dig up someone's past that's almost two decades old, SOLELY because theyare getting their ass smeared across the floor left and right in a political blog...

    I will tell my friend he's a loser, and he will laugh as hard as I am now. Why, yes... there is information that is two decades old because my buddy knows his stuff/your stuff! Your EQ Stuff and stuff even older than that... might as well blame yourself for being alive and trolling.

    I'm fine, thank you. I'm a badass who hasn't been smeared even a smidgen. Someone calling me a hypocrite every day doesn't phase me a bit. Maybe you could actually win a debate on here if you ever had a decent argument, but you can't... because you don't! It's so much easier just to label anyone who doesn't agree with your worldview as a hypocrite. It's kind of funny that you think that's a political debate, but okay! :)

    I have really met some lusers here in Weigantia, but someone who actually digs into a person's past almost two decades???

    Oh, come on. You can do better than this. Even your paranoid troll shit is becoming monotonous. You keep saying the same shit over and over. :)

    And what is so HILARIOUS is that your lame attempt to extort me into silence has actually had absolutely NO EFFECT whatsoever on my postings or frequency! :D

    I have Tamper Monkey and no wish whatsoever to silence you. Please keep talking; you're exposing your ignorance and your inner paranoid troll. :)

    I can't speak for everyone, but this hypocrite is waiting for the long post about Donald Trump being a lying sack of shit. Come on. Give it your best shot. I promise not to laugh. *LOL*

    Live with that, bitch.. :D

    Oh, no. Your ideological shortcomings are showing again; however, I wouldn't know about living with one of them. Why don't you tell us all about it. :)

  128. [128] 
    altohone wrote:

    Kick

    You do indeed kick ass.

    I'll check back for your response when CW clears the filter.

    A

  129. [129] 
    chaszzzbrown wrote:

    [125] Kick

    Thank you to Charles Brown, Esq. wherever you may be! :)

    Still around; I just consider this blog to be more of a spectator sport :).

  130. [130] 
    Kick wrote:

    Charles Brown, Esq. [129]

    Where you been, Charlie Brown!

    https://youtu.be/vmgGxhK_AUc?t=1m25s

  131. [131] 
    BashiBazouk wrote:

    Kick,

    So someone else finally figured out Michale's trollish history. About time. A little less than a year ago I was needling him about "the imbecile" Which I assume you get the reference. Though I found it long ago while coming up with something to demonstrate that proof by google search was a silly tactic. Anyway, a couple of notes about this rabbit hole: The usenet was quite easy to spoof so the more inflammatory posts were not his. Though it does prove he is a troll to piss off people enough to research and write such stuff. His tone has not changed so it's pretty easy to figure out which posts are authentic and which are spoofed. As for getting under his skin, yes you are but not quite in the way you think. I believe Michale wants you to release this info. It would be his ultimate forum troll metaphorical sploogie. The pinnacle of his long trolling career. There is even a post about it in that rabbit hole if you go deep enough.

    As for your and Neilm's potential Doxing, you should never do it as it is bad form on a forum. But Michale has already Doxed himself, not that it was a big deal. Before he closed down his site his name linked to his business website and more than enough personal information was on there to figure out who he is. I found it long before he linked with his name by doing a whois on his domain when he posted star trek pictures. He was prating on about how good a security expert he was...

    Personally I found the Tamper Monkey route the preferred one as Michale has not had an original thought since the Bush Administration.

  132. [132] 
    michale wrote:

    And when did I try to silence you? It never happened.

    Now who is the liar... JL can verify that you threatened to release private info if I didn't change my posting habits..

    That's extortion, bitch...

    Oh, come on. You can do better than this. Even your paranoid troll shit is becoming monotonous. You keep saying the same shit over and over. :)

    That's because they are facts..

    Something you apparently have a problem with...

  133. [133] 
    michale wrote:

    As for your and Neilm's potential Doxing, you should never do it as it is bad form on a forum.

    Not only is it bad form, in some states it's a Class C Felony...

    Which, if Kick persists in her threats, I will pursue..

  134. [134] 
    michale wrote:

    And when did I try to silence you? It never happened.

    It would serve you well to keep in mind that a commenter on this board knows exactly who you are and can keep you honest when you decide to get all up on your high horse... I know you know what I'm talking about...
    -Kick, http://www.chrisweigant.com/2017/02/15/too-little-from-congress-too-much-from-trump/#comment-94665

    Proof of your lies and your threats, bitch... That's my new nickname for ya, by the bi, because it fits so well.. :D

    And, as an original Founder (love the DS9 ref :D) said, "It read as a threat"....

    Once again, you are exposed for the lying bitch that you are...

    Have a happy :D

  135. [135] 
    michale wrote:

    As for your and Neilm's potential Doxing, you should never do it as it is bad form on a forum.

    Just a minor correction..

    It was an honest mistake on Neil's part that allowed the bitch to research 20 years into my past for something (ANYTHING) to use to try and silence me...

    Neil's mistake was an honest mistake and we have made our peace over it..

  136. [136] 
    michale wrote:

    White House Seeks to Cut Billions in Funding for United Nations
    U.S. retreat from U.N. could mark a “breakdown of the international humanitarian system as we know it.”

    http://foreignpolicy.com/2017/03/13/white-house-seeks-to-cut-billions-in-funding-for-united-nations/

    What do you call President Trump's decision to withhold BILLIONS from the United Nations??

    A good start... :D

  137. [137] 
    michale wrote:

    http://www.rollcall.com/news/politics/democrats-warn-shutdown-showdown-trumps-mexican-border-wall

    Looks like Democrats are threatening to shut down the government if they don't get their way..

    And, of course, ya'all will be consistent and condemn the Democrats for the threat, just like you condemned the Republicans, right??

    "In a pig's eye!"
    -Dr Leonard McCoy, STAR TREK TOS, Amok Time

    :D

  138. [138] 
    nypoet22 wrote:

    i go away for a couple days and return to another flame war? come on folks, i thought we were past this.

    1. references to other people's real-life residences are best left off this blog. someone's home and hearth is out of bounds. period. kick/bashi/gt, you've proven that you can troll too, congratulations.

    2. the point of all this is to seek truth, not "win the argument."

    3. michale, if you have a history of trolling, own it. i've mentioned before that you post flame-bait with some regularity, and encouraged you to tone it down. i hereby repeat that advice.

    so let's all quit trolling each other and bitching about it, and stop using those words as nouns.

    JL

  139. [139] 
    Kick wrote:

    BashiBazouk [131]

    So someone else finally figured out Michale's trollish history. About time. A little less than a year ago I was needling him about "the imbecile" Which I assume you get the reference. Though I found it long ago while coming up with something to demonstrate that proof by google search was a silly tactic.

    LOL. Oh darn, Bashi... the gig is up. The fact is, Michale posted his own information all over this board, and anyone with two brain cells to rub together already knew who he was because he divulged his own information. :)

    Anyway, a couple of notes about this rabbit hole: The usenet was quite easy to spoof so the more inflammatory posts were not his. Though it does prove he is a troll to piss off people enough to research and write such stuff. His tone has not changed so it's pretty easy to figure out which posts are authentic and which are spoofed.

    Is that right? I wouldn't spend a minute looking at that crap, although MHorton said he had found him also. Seen one troll, seen them all. :)

    As for getting under his skin, yes you are but not quite in the way you think. I believe Michale wants you to release this info.

    Of course he does! It's funny as hell to watch "paranoid troll" freaking out and trying to get under my skin. What he has no way of knowing is that's next to impossible to do. :)

    It would be his ultimate forum troll metaphorical sploogie. The pinnacle of his long trolling career.

    Yes, I know his type... except he's pretty weak tea compared to some I've come across. A troll who actually thinks he performs a service by disrupting the flow of dialogue, constantly interrupting people's conversations, etc. He's bragged about running people off the board and threatened to run me off to. *LOL*

    As for your and Neilm's potential Doxing, you should never do it as it is bad form on a forum. But Michale has already Doxed himself, not that it was a big deal. Before he closed down his site his name linked to his business website and more than enough personal information was on there to figure out who he is. I found it long before he linked with his name by doing a whois on his domain when he posted star trek pictures. He was prating on about how good a security expert he was...

    I never doxed anybody. I did, however, send Neil an email on 02/16/2017 at 7:14 a.m. apologizing for emailing him but letting him know about the personal information of himself and Michale that was posted and explaining that it was in multiple posts because Michale quoted it. I also gave him a link so he could have it removed or get CW to remove it... but as you correctly point out, he had already revealed himself on this board long before then. :)

    Personally I found the Tamper Monkey route the preferred one as Michale has not had an original thought since the Bush Administration.

    Is that right? Now that doesn't surprise me one bit.

    Thanks so much for you post, but I'm good! Don't let the troll run you away. :)

  140. [140] 
    michale wrote:

    It's interesting..

    http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/other/direction_of_country-902.html

    In Oct of 2016, nearly 65% of Americans felt this country was heading in the wrong direction...

    Today, less than 53% of Americans feel that way...

    Hmmmmmm What has happened since Nov of 2016 that could have changed things so dramatically....????

    :D

    Things that make ya go 'hmmmmmmmmmm' :D

  141. [141] 
    michale wrote:

    3. michale, if you have a history of trolling, own it.

    I've always owned my past.. That's why I told the bitch that she has nothing to warrant her extortion...

    A position she now agrees with me on... Funny how that is, eh?? :D

    i've mentioned before that you post flame-bait with some regularity,

    No more so than anyone else.... As you so aptly point out... :D

    and encouraged you to tone it down. i hereby repeat that advice.

    Yes, exactly you give advice and you encourage that I accept it.

    I have no problem with that..

    What I DO have a problem is with a turd blossom who threatens to expose private information if I don't toe her line... To which, I rightly say.... Well, you know what I said.. :D

    kick/bashi/gt, you've proven that you can troll too, congratulations.

    Personally, I think this recent bout is all on GT... He could have easily said, "Neil?? You know Michale's home address.. blaaaa blaaaa blaaa" and their wouldn't have been any problems..

    But GT had to involve the bitch, knowing full well where it would lead...

    So, this one's on GT, the facts clearly show...

    so let's all quit trolling each other and bitching about it, and stop using those words as nouns.

    I have never instigated anything.. Those that attack me know how to stop it...

    The fact that they continue is on them, not on me...

  142. [142] 
    nypoet22 wrote:

    I have never instigated anything..

    https://tinyurl.com/ztargqh

    ;)

    JL

  143. [143] 
    michale wrote:

    I have turned the other cheek often enough to proves beyond ANY doubt that I can, if I so choose...

    So, the onus is now on others...

  144. [144] 
    michale wrote:

    I have never instigated anything..

    https://tinyurl.com/ztargqh

    ;)

    heh... :D

    I welcome any facts that shows my statement is in error..

    However, to save you a lot of trouble, I will limit my claim to this current bout with the bitch... :D

    Don't get me wrong.. I honestly believe that I have NEVER instigated any kind of non-political attack on anyone...

    But we can make it easier for ya and just limit it to this current dust-up :D

  145. [145] 
    michale wrote:

    WASHINGTON — Democrats pilloried Republicans for irresponsibly shutting down the government when Barack Obama was president, but as a minority party struggling to show resistance in the era of President Trump, they are now ready to let the lights of government go dark.

    A group of prominent Senate Democrats on Monday raised the specter of a shutdown over the funding of President Trump’s proposed wall along the border with Mexico. They also signaled a series of protracted budget battles in Congress over a larger force of immigration officers, what they call a deportation force, and funding for Planned Parenthood. They warned that these would also be “poison pills” that could kill any potential deals to keep the gears of government running normally this year.

    In a letter to Senator Mitch McConnell, the Republican majority leader, Senator Chuck Schumer and four other Democratic leaders made clear how far they were prepared to go: “We believe it would be inappropriate to insist on the inclusion of such funding in a must-pass appropriations bill that is needed for the Republican majority in control of the Congress to avert a government shutdown so early in President Trump’s administration.”

    Democrats have said little up to now about the possibility of employing the brinkmanship that Republicans used in the fights over the budget and the debt ceiling during the Obama administration. But with Mr. Trump expected to formally outline his 2018 budget priorities for the first time on Thursday and an April 28 deadline looming to fund the government for the rest of this fiscal year, the stakes of failing to reach an agreement are ratcheting up higher.

    From the New York Grime, of all places... :D

  146. [146] 
    Kick wrote:

    michale [132]

    Now who is the liar... JL can verify that you threatened to release private info if I didn't change my posting habits..

    You've got quite the imagination. I've never once tried to get you to stop posting. I simply said there's a commenter on this board who knows who you are and can keep you honest. *LOL* The fact is, snowflake, you've posted your personal information all over this board. Apparently, I wasn't even the first one to see it. I've seen it several times. Your name is written into your links when you post pictures... duh!

    Isn't this just like John Podesta? How stupid of you to post your personal information and then freak out like a little girl when somebody says they know who you are and can keep you honest.

    It was an honest mistake on Neil's part that allowed the bitch to research 20 years into my past for something (ANYTHING) to use to try and silence me...

    Hey, dude! You're delusional and have a problem with reading comprehension. Other than that, you're a garden variety paranoid troll. It's fine with me if you want to play a victim and make shit up that never happened. Your paranoia is highly entertaining. :) Knock yourself out.

    You posted your own information long before Neil did. I sent Neil an email letting him know it was posted and asking him to have CW remove it. LOL

  147. [147] 
    michale wrote:

    “The onus for shutting down government falls on the governing party, which is them.”
    -Chuck Schumer

    What's funny is that, when DEMOCRATS are the governing Party, the onus for shutting down the government is on the MINORITY Party... :^/

    Hypocrisy, thy name is Chuck Schumer...

  148. [148] 
    michale wrote:

    Bitch,

    You posted your own information long before Neil did. I sent Neil an email letting him know it was posted and asking him to have CW remove it. LOL

    Yea, that's what I told you when you first tried to silence me with your extortion...

    You said that I wouldn't want the information you had on me to be released..

    So, you were lying then or you are lying now...

    https://tinyurl.com/ztargqh

    Which is it, bitch??

    Here's the deal, Victoria... You can continue on this road, which I can guarantee will not end well for you...

    Or you can just drop it, lick your wounds and let it go...

    Your call...

  149. [149] 
    Kick wrote:

    michale [141]

    I've always owned my past.. That's why I told the bitch that she has nothing to warrant her extortion...

    You are accusing me of something that never happened. Try toning your bullshit down. You've posted your name all over this board, and anyone that can read can look you up. Not very bright, are you?

    A position she now agrees with me on... Funny how that is, eh?? :D

    You're delusional yet creative in your paranoia.

    What I DO have a problem is with a turd blossom who threatens to expose private information if I don't toe her line... To which, I rightly say.... Well, you know what I said.. :D

    Anyone can look you up. You posted your personal information. Own your ignorance and move on.

    Personally, I think this recent bout is all on GT... He could have easily said, "Neil?? You know Michale's home address.. blaaaa blaaaa blaaa" and their wouldn't have been any problems..

    See, this is exactly your problem. You're blaming GT when it was you who accused me of sniffing around your porch. You always twist the facts and cry like a whiny little victim and twist every situation into a fantasy of your own paranoia. Don't blame GT for what you did. :)

    But GT had to involve the bitch, knowing full well where it would lead...

    Blame yourself. It was you.

    So, this one's on GT, the facts clearly show...

    You have a problem with facts, and your posts clearly show. LOL

  150. [150] 
    michale wrote:

    How Investigating the Trump Campaign Backfired on Obama’s Embeds

    If you strike at a presidential candidate, you better defeat him.
    https://spectator.org/how-investigating-the-trump-campaign-backfired-on-obamas-embeds/

    Yep.... yep... Yep...

    If you are going to try and kill the king... You better KILL the king...

  151. [151] 
    michale wrote:

    You have a problem with facts, and your posts clearly show. ?

    Says the bitch who continues to lie about her extortion (as I have proven) and continues to lie when she said that I wouldn't want the info she has released...

    So, apparently, you are incapable of letting it go..

    Fine by me...

  152. [152] 
    nypoet22 wrote:

    @kick,

    you've made your point, anything further is not helping.

    @michale,

    kindly refrain from using the word bitch in that way. using that word to describe a woman, ANY woman, is like using the N-word to describe a black person, ya just don't bloody do it.

    Kirk: "Spock, you want to know something? Everybody's human."
    Spock: "I find that remark.....insulting."

    JL

  153. [153] 
    Kick wrote:

    michale [148]

    Yea, that's what I told you when you first tried to silence me with your extortion...

    You're a paranoid delusional with a creative imagination.

    You said that I wouldn't want the information you had on me to be released..

    Link to that, please. If I actually said that, show me. If you twisted my words, you have my pity. I sent Neil an email telling him where it was and telling him to have CW remove it. I did not threaten to post it... duh! It was already posted.

    Here's the deal, Victoria... You can continue on this road, which I can guarantee will not end well for you...

    Not the first time you've threatened me. I'm not the least bit scared of you. LOL

    Or you can just drop it, lick your wounds and let it go...

    I don't have any wounds, but you sure have a creative paranoia going for you. :)

  154. [154] 
    nypoet22 wrote:

    the last word:

  155. [155] 
    michale wrote:

    kindly refrain from using the word bitch in that way. using that word to describe a woman, ANY woman, is like using the N-word to describe a black person,

    I apologize to you but the word is apt and perfectly descriptive of Victoria..

    And, with respect, I completely and unequivocally disagree that it's comparable to a racial slur...

    ya just don't bloody do it

    And you also bloody don't threaten to release private and confidential information just because you get your ass kicked six ways from Sunday in a political blog...

    Yet, here we are...

    If Victoria wants to apologize for the threat and concede it was crossing a line that shouldn't be crossed, I will happily retire the moniker and never broach the subject again..

    As always, the ball is in her court..

  156. [156] 
    Kick wrote:

    michale [155]

    And you also bloody don't threaten to release private and confidential information just because you get your ass kicked six ways from Sunday in a political blog...

    Yet, here we are...

    You're paranoid. You're twisting my words in your creative paranoia. You have my pity, seriously. You really do.

    If Victoria wants to apologize for the threat and concede it was crossing a line that shouldn't be crossed, I will happily retire the moniker and never broach the subject again..

    If I want to apologize for your made up twisted misrepresented crap? I'm sorry you're paranoid. Feel free to call me whatever you want; it shows how small you are and doesn't bother me.

    Please ask Neil to show you the email I sent him in February. Maybe if you see that email, we can at least agree to disagree and move on from there. :)

  157. [157] 
    michale wrote:

    Yea, that's what I told you when you first tried to silence me with your extortion...

    You're a paranoid delusional with a creative imagination.

    Yea??

    I don't think you quite understood my meaning yesterday, so I'm going to ask you again. How would you like it if someone posted things about you... with the exception that those things were actually true?

    Translation: Keep it up. I won't post BS about you: I will post the truth.

    Now do you keep up your BS with me, or do I tell everyone the truth about you? Your call.
    chrisweigant.com/2017/02/13/trump-should-cut-his-losses/#comment-94316

    Should I post more than those 2 letters? It would sure bring him down off his high horse. :)
    chrisweigant.com/2017/02/13/trump-should-cut-his-losses/#comment-94358

  158. [158] 
    michale wrote:

    You're paranoid. You're twisting my words in your creative paranoia. You have my pity, seriously. You really do.

    I am posting your own words, fully and completely in context..

    You claimed to have information on me that I would not want released. You said, on SEVERAL occasions that if I did not change my posting ways, you would release that information...

    Your claims that this didn't happen is complete and utter lies...

    This is fact...

  159. [159] 
    michale wrote:

    Feel free to call me whatever you want; it shows how small you are and doesn't bother me.

    No, it shows how perfectly I got your number..

    However, out of respect for Joshua who I, much to his chagrin (no doubt :D) consider a friend, I will refrain from that particular moniker...

    Which just means I'll have to come up with something better...

    shrew
    backbiter
    battle-ax
    biddy
    bitch
    calumniator
    carper
    detractor
    dragon
    fire-eater
    fishwife
    fury
    harpy
    harridan
    hussy
    madcap
    muckraker
    nag
    ogress
    old biddy
    porcupine
    reviler
    spitfire
    termagant
    virago
    vituperator
    vixen
    wench

    Which one would work, JL?? :D

    Old Biddy would be fun.... :D

    Oh well, I'll mull it over.. :D

  160. [160] 
    michale wrote:

    Link to that, please. If I actually said that, show me.

    Michale:Everyone in this forum knows already knows EXACTLY who I am.. I have no secrets. People here probably know more about me than they WANT to know.

    Kick: No, they don't.
    http://www.chrisweigant.com/2017/02/14/just-the-first-to-go/#comment-94724

    Once again, your OWN words prove what a liar you are...

  161. [161] 
    BashiBazouk wrote:

    2. the point of all this is to seek truth, not "win the argument."

    Hilarious. Do you actually believe this? This is why I stopped arguing with the troll. Every time anyone, including you, argue with the troll, the next time that particular subject comes up he opens at square one like all the previous arguments on that subject never happened. You are not finding truth, you are enabling his trolling which is as bad as you accuse, though sometimes more fun...

  162. [162] 
    Kick wrote:

    michale [158]

    I am posting your own words, fully and completely in context..

    Oh, okay. I see what happened here now. You were making up lies about me, and I wanted you to stop. I do not like the way you troll me and make up lies as if you know me. So I did say I would post the truth about you, but it was in response to you making up lies about me. I never asked you to stop posting; I did ask you to stop posting lies about me. You embellished it from there.

    So I do apologize for that.

    Okay? Feel free to call me whatever you want... doesn't bother me one bit. Making up lies about me does, however, grate on my nerves. If you insist on making up lies about me and posting them on this board, I will just make shit up about you in the future. :)

    And ask Neil to show you the email I sent him about taking your information down when I ran across it. I was trying to look out for you both, not the other way around. Ask him; you'll see! :)

  163. [163] 
    michale wrote:

    Oh, okay. I see what happened here now. You were making up lies about me, and I wanted you to stop. I do not like the way you troll me and make up lies as if you know me. So I did say I would post the truth about you, but it was in response to you making up lies about me

    WOW.... Look at the backpedaling!!!

    What "lies" was I making up about you??

    Further, your OWN words prove your lies..

    You didn't want me to stop posting alleged lies about you..

    You said: "It would serve you well to keep in mind that a commenter on this board knows exactly who you are and can keep you honest when you decide to get all up on your high horse.."

    NOTHING there about my telling supposed lies about you... You wanted me off my "high horse" and you thought you had some juicy scandal with which to bring me down off my "high horse"... And I told you, you ain't got shit on me that people here don't already know...

    Once again, you lies are exposed... Ain't it a bitch when your own words show you to be the liar everyone knows you to be... :D

    If you insist on making up lies about me and posting them on this board, I will just make shit up about you in the future. :)

    NOW you are claiming you are just going to make shit up about me...

    There is another word for that..

    LYING...

    So, now you have conceded that everything you will say about me in the future is a lie...

    I am glad I have that on record..

    You can't win, Victoria... Your own words prove all your lies..

    Your best course of action is to just let it go...

    I was trying to look out for you both, not the other way around.

    BBWWWHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

    Do you HONESTLY expect that ANYONE would believe you were just looking out for me?!? Com'on.. Even YOU aren't that stoopid...

    Are you??

    Give it up, Victoria.. You are out-classed and out-gunned... You are trying to have a battle of wits and you are completely un-armed...

    It's THAT simple... :D

  164. [164] 
    michale wrote:

    Every time anyone, including you, argue with the troll, the next time that particular subject comes up he opens at square one like all the previous arguments on that subject never happened.

    The facts never change in that regard...

    There is no sin in repeating the facts when ya'all try to make a point based on bullshit...

    It's THAT simple...

  165. [165] 
    nypoet22 wrote:

    @michale,

    in all fairness you do tend to ignore, forget or fail to accept some points that have been made and factually substantiated many times over. you're kind-of a character that way, so i don't think it's out of line to wonder whether or not it's intentional.

    @bashi,
    if you want to call michale's argument style trolling then fine. but if you want to say i'm enabling poor behavior by modeling better behavior, that's your mistake.

    JL

  166. [166] 
    Kick wrote:

    Michale

    Everyone in this forum knows already knows EXACTLY who I am.. I have no secrets. People here probably know more about me than they WANT to know.

    So if everyone already knows EXACTLY who you are, then what in hell could anyone tell them that they don't already know? You're undermining your claim of victimhood here. Me responding "no, they don't" is actually a fact since most everyone has secrets. Twist that around however you want.

    WOW.... Look at the backpedaling!!!

    What "lies" was I making up about you??

    Further, your OWN words prove your lies..

    You didn't want me to stop posting alleged lies about you..

    Yes, I did. That is why I posted it. You can't move on, right? You have to continue twisting my words and making shit up. Follow the link. You were lying and threatening to have me banned. You are not an innocent victim. Feel free to pile on. It's what you do daily.

    You accused me of having a nervous breakdown and too many numerous lies to list. You constantly lie using words that lump people into categories. Then you will say it's what I believe, and it's not at all what I believe. You know you do this so why act like you're an innocent victim?

    Enjoy your bullshittery. I hope you got your jollies.

    You probably should stop posting your name in the forum on your pictures and telling everyone everything about yourself.

    Give it up, Victoria.. You are out-classed and out-gunned... You are trying to have a battle of wits and you are completely un-armed...

    It's THAT simple... :D

    I'm not the ignorant fool who posts his personal information all over a forum and brags about everyone knowing everything about him, and then whines and cries victim when someone points out the obvious. If everyone knows you, what are you afraid of? LOL :)

    You remember calling John Podesta stupid and saying he deserved what he got? Your hypocrisy is showing, snowflake. :)

  167. [167] 
    michale wrote:

    JL,

    in all fairness you do tend to ignore, forget or fail to accept some points that have been made and factually substantiated many times over.

    I would be hard pressed to concede that without examples..

    However, I will readily admit that I sometimes make mistakes so I can't swear to you it NEVER happens...

    you're kind-of a character that way, so i don't think it's out of line to wonder whether or not it's intentional.

    If you can find me some examples, I can clarify exactly the reasoning behind it..

  168. [168] 
    michale wrote:

    So if everyone already knows EXACTLY who you are, then what in hell could anyone tell them that they don't already know?

    Which is EXACTLY what I told you when you threatened me..

    And your answer: "No, they don't."

    So, you implied that you had personal information that no one knows and that I would not want it released..

    After being caught with proof of your threats, NOW you are back-pedaling...

    Yes, I did. That is why I posted it.

    And yet: "It would serve you well to keep in mind that a commenter on this board knows exactly who you are and can keep you honest when you decide to get all up on your high horse.."

    NOTHING in that threat about me supposedly posting lies about you..

    Because there haven't been any lies...

    You accused me of having a nervous breakdown and too many numerous lies to list.

    And I told you that it was a mistake. I conflated you with Paula. I conceded that I was wrong and I apologized for it.

    So.. NOT a lie..

    Surely you can find some other "lie" I told about you.. Because, if they are too numerous to list, you can find ONE, right?? :D

    I'm not the ignorant fool

    Despite ALL the facts that proves the contrary.. :D

    If everyone knows you, what are you afraid of? LOL :)

    As I have posted time and time again, I am not afraid of ANYTHING you can do..

    You are all talk and absolutely NOTHING to back it up...

    That's why you always get my mocking laugh..

    BBBWWWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHA

    You're nothing.. You've got nothing.. You have always had nothing... :D

    You've never been any kind of threat to me..

    But the fact that you DID try and threaten me with exposure proves what a sad and pathetic scumbag you really are...

    You have nothing... You are nothing...

    Live with that...

  169. [169] 
    nypoet22 wrote:

    I would be hard pressed to concede that without examples..

    well, at some point i provided extensive documentation here that the overall heat contained by geosphere, hydrosphere, cryosphere and atmosphere had increased dramatically over the past fifty years, irrespective of the year-to-year changes in one or the other - yet the next time we discussed global warming it was as if those facts never found a place in your mind; you'd already transitioned to the inability of climate models to predict geological events.

    global warming is just that, global, and that in spite of difficulties figuring out how the increase in overall heat will impact climate. that never quite seemed to sink in, so i gave up trying to convince you of the facts and accepted that you've firmly decided to believe something else.

    JL

  170. [170] 
    Kick wrote:

    michale [168]

    After being caught with proof of your threats, NOW you are back-pedaling...

    No, I'm not back-pedaling. I listened to JL and was trying to end it and move on. I truthfully explained why I said what I said. Follow your own links. You had told lie after lie about me the day before, just kept making shit up and saying it was what I believed.

    You lie all the time. What started all this crap?

    http://www.chrisweigant.com/2017/02/10/ftp424/#comment-94112

    You kept making up bullshit and saying they were my beliefs over and over that day.

    ******
    And because of that, in your mind, she is not credible to speak of MLK related matters..

    **Liar. I have nothing against Alveda King.

    Like I said.. Inherent Left Wing bias colors your entire thought process..

    **That wasn't my "thought process"; it was your thought process and yet another lie you've made up about me in order to label me a Party bigot...

    ******
    At the end of many posts where you made shit up, that is when I posted what I did. You kept saying I believed this and I believed that and then making up shit I don't believe. You do this all the time. When you called me a liar the following day for insulting Trump, that was when I posted it again and referred to the day before.

    Because there haven't been any lies...

    ^^^^^ Okay, that right there is a lie. ^^^^^

    You posted I was nosing around your porch. LIE
    You posted several times that I believed that ALL Trump voters are racist deplorables. LIE

    Seriously, the majority of my extended family are Trump voters, some of them probably qualify as racists, none of them are deplorables. I donated bone marrow to my Trump voter aunt; she died anyway.

    Give your made up bullshit a rest. Stop making up lies about people you know nothing about. It's sickening.

    And I told you that it was a mistake. I conflated you with Paula. I conceded that I was wrong and I apologized for it.

    Yes, you did, but not without all the bullshit and jumping through hoops. But still I remembered that, and I thought about what JL said, and I listened to what you had to say, and then I truthfully told you exactly why I said what I did, and so you then call me a liar and pile on, but I told you the truth.

    I'm not the ignorant fool

    If John Podesta was an ignorant fool, then it would be hypocrisy to consider yourself anything else. :)

    BBBWWWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHA

    Troll laugh. Seen it before. Proves you're a troll.

    You're nothing.. You've got nothing.. You have always had nothing... :D

    You sure are freaking out and whining like a baby about nothing. :)

  171. [171] 
    John M wrote:

    Michale wrote:

    "In Oct of 2016, nearly 65% of Americans felt this country was heading in the wrong direction...

    Today, less than 53% of Americans feel that way...

    Hmmmmmm What has happened since Nov of 2016 that could have changed things so dramatically....????"

    And YET, the POINT is that a HEALTHY MAJORITY still think that Trump is taking the country in the WRONG direction. If this had been Obama, you know for a FACT Michale that you would be GLOATING about how BAD Obama was doing INSTEAD of making it a POSITIVE for Trump. Hypocrite much????

  172. [172] 
    John M wrote:

    Michale wrote:

    "What do you call President Trump's decision to withhold BILLIONS from the United Nations??

    A good start... :D"

    A call it an asinine move on the part of a rank amateur.

  173. [173] 
    John M wrote:

    Michale wrote:

    "It's called FREEDOM and LIBERTY..."

    NO, it's called throwing people under the bus because you are callous and really don't give a SHIT about them.

  174. [174] 
    michale wrote:

    No, I'm not back-pedaling. I listened to JL and was trying to end it and move on.

    Trying to end it by insulting and attacking me??

    And then you whine and cry when I respond in kind..

    If you want to end it, then END it...

    You posted I was nosing around your porch. LIE

    Oh puulleessseee

    If you think I was serious then you are more deranged then I figured... And THAT says something..

    You posted several times that I believed that ALL Trump voters are racist deplorables. LIE

    Based on the FACTS that you have *NEVER* corrected anyone who DID say that all Trump supporters are racist deplorables and the FACT that you make a point to read all my comments and correct me ad nasuem, it's a valid accusation, not a lie..

    You can prove me WRONG by pointing out a SINGLE instance where you corrected someone who stated that all Trump supporters are racist deplorables..

    Until you can do that, the accusation stands as valid..

    You sure are freaking out and whining like a baby about nothing. :)

    As are you...

    And I can do this all day.. :D

    You want to end it, then end it..

  175. [175] 
    michale wrote:

    A call it an asinine move on the part of a rank amateur.

    You would... :D

    But you have been wrong before, so.... :D

    NO, it's called throwing people under the bus because you are callous and really don't give a SHIT about them.

    Says the guy who doesn't condemn violence against people SOLELY because those people are Trump supporters... :D

  176. [176] 
    michale wrote:

    global warming is just that, global, and that in spite of difficulties figuring out how the increase in overall heat will impact climate. that never quite seemed to sink in, so i gave up trying to convince you of the facts and accepted that you've firmly decided to believe something else.

    In THAT particular issue, the problem was you ignored the FACTS that disprove the Global Warming theory...

    When you can address the Judith Curry's and Richard Lindzen's science, ONLY then can we have a MEANINGFUL discussion on the pros and cons of the Global Warming theory...

    That is simply a difference of opinion, nothing more... Hardly a case of me ignoring facts.. I listen to and acknowledge your facts.. But you don't do the same with my facts...

    And therein lies about 80% of the issues here.. :D

    http://www.chrisweigant.com/2017/03/13/everyone-will-be-covered-except-for-24-million/#comment-96692

    That's the other 20% ^^^^^^^ :D

  177. [177] 
    michale wrote:

    No, I'm not back-pedaling. I listened to JL and was trying to end it and move on.

    OK, I'll try my best to end it right here and now..

    Victoria..

    I apologize for any false accusations I may have made against you.. I am especially truly sorry for the personal attacks against you that crossed lines that should not be crossed..

    I will do my utmost to keep the attacks in the realm of politics and not stray into areas that are not politics... I will do my damndest to say things like, "That is a lie" instead of "You are a liar" or "That is trolling" instead of "You are a troll"....

    I honestly and truly hope we can move past this.. If you feel that you need to respond in kind to #173, then feel free and know that I won't respond to your response..

  178. [178] 
    Kick wrote:

    michale [174]

    Oh puulleessseee

    If you think I was serious then you are more deranged then I figured... And THAT says something..

    Obviously, I know you weren't serious, but you didn't say it to me; you said it to GT. Saying I was nosing around your porch to another poster is just uncalled for. Keep your insults of me toward me, please. :)

    Based on the FACTS that you have *NEVER* corrected anyone who DID say that all Trump supporters are racist deplorables and the FACT that you make a point to read all my comments and correct me ad nasuem, it's a valid accusation, not a lie..

    So that's just utter bullshit. First, I don't remember anyone saying that all Trump supporters are (not going to repeat it because I don't believe it). Second, I believe I had already stated before about a thousand times that I don't lump anyone into any category of "all," "every," "everyone," etc. I believe you are the only one on the board that says EVERY and ALL and words that label everyone with a broad brush, and we've discussed it several times. I don't agree with anyone who uses labels like that... you or anyone.

    You can prove me WRONG by pointing out a SINGLE instance where you corrected someone who stated that all Trump supporters are racist deplorables..

    Who even said that? Show me where anyone said "ALL."

    Until you can do that, the accusation stands as valid..

    No, it doesn't. It's a lie to say anyone agrees with somebody else who uses labels like that, particularly when you know better and it's been discussed more than once that I don't agree with anyone doing it... particularly when you are the primary person that labels people.

    You can prove me WRONG by pointing out a SINGLE instance where you corrected someone who stated that all Trump supporters are racist deplorables..

    I have a better idea. Why don't you stop making up lies like that and insisting they are true unless I can prove they're not. We've had the label discussion many times, and you know I hate labels. I hate that Berniebros label. I hate that deplorables label. I hate the "trump that bitch" label.

    Until you can do that, the accusation stands as valid..

    No, it doesn't.

    As are you...

    And I can do this all day.. :D

    Obviously it's how you get your jollies. :)

    You want to end it, then end it..

    I tried. You called me a liar... even though I told you the truth and suggested you get the email from Neil. I did try. :)

  179. [179] 
    Kick wrote:

    michale [177]

    I apologize for any false accusations I may have made against you.. I am especially truly sorry for the personal attacks against you that crossed lines that should not be crossed..

    No worries. Accepted and moving forward.

    I will do my utmost to keep the attacks in the realm of politics and not stray into areas that are not politics... I will do my damndest to say things like, "That is a lie" instead of "You are a liar" or "That is trolling" instead of "You are a troll"....

    Deal. It goes both ways.

    I honestly and truly hope we can move past this.. If you feel that you need to respond in kind to #173, then feel free and know that I won't respond to your response..

    Oh, darn it. You meant 174, I think. Too late, but I did not see this post before I responded to 174. :)

  180. [180] 
    michale wrote:

    Oh, darn it. You meant 174, I think. Too late, but I did not see this post before I responded to 174. :)

    No worries..

    I am not even going to read that response.

    We start fresh... Clean slate...

  181. [181] 
    nypoet22 wrote:

    *sniff* i'm so proud :)

  182. [182] 
    John M wrote:

    Michale wrote:

    "BULLSHIT. Obama had month after month of completely positive jobs reports, Trump has had ONE.

    prove it..

    You can't because it's complete bullshit.."

    During the Obama Administration, monthly jobs creation exceeded 235,000 on 30 separate occasions.

    Over the past 18 months, job growth has been averaging over 200,000 while GDP was below 2 percent.

    From October 2010 to January 2017, over 14 million jobs were created.

    During President Obama’s two terms, the economy created jobs for 75 consecutive months of job gains, the longest streak on record.

    There you go Michale. PROVED IT! courtesy of nypoet22

  183. [183] 
    John M wrote:

    Michale wrote:

    "I call it an asinine move on the part of a rank amateur.

    You would... :D

    But you have been wrong before, so.... :D"

    I still stand by my statement. Since America has been a founding member, chief supporter, and major force behind the creation of the United Nations in the first place, it would be a foolish move on the part of an uniformed novice to cut such support without just cause in a non-strategic manner. Pulling out of UNESCO when it became rabidly political in defiance of its mission was one thing. A blanket withdrawl of support would be quite another. Do you dispute that line of reasoning?

    "Says the guy who doesn't condemn violence against people SOLELY because those people are Trump supporters... :D"

    AGAIN, like Kick has admonished you to do, don't lump me in with others.

  184. [184] 
    michale wrote:

    During the Obama Administration, monthly jobs creation exceeded 235,000 on 30 separate occasions.

    Again, you are cherry picking data..

    How was Americans Leaving The Workforce number??

    Higher than before..

    AGAIN, like Kick has admonished you to do, don't lump me in with others.

    OK.. Fair enough.. SHow me where you condemned the Left Whinery rioters without any prompting..

    Once you do, I'll happily retract the claim and apologize to you for the claim..

    Until then, the claim stands...

  185. [185] 
    michale wrote:

    Not that it means much... :D

    I completely understand your Party loyalty...

  186. [186] 
    John M wrote:

    Michale wrote:

    "Again, you are cherry picking data.."

    That's pretty much become your standard answer to every FACT that you don't like, has't it? Kind of like a five year old putting his fingers in his ears while saying "NA NA NA." Or someone else calling it "Fake News" or "Alternative Facts" when REALITY actually contradicts your preconceived worldview.

  187. [187] 
    John M wrote:

    Michale wrote:

    "I completely understand your Party loyalty..."

    And I completely understand YOURS. After all, since when are official government statistics "cherry picking?" Perhaps when they are put out by Obama, and you call them that, and then when the EXACT SAME FIGURES are put out by Trump, and you GLOAT about them???

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