ChrisWeigant.com

Just The First To Go

[ Posted Tuesday, February 14th, 2017 – 18:11 PST ]

It hasn't even been four weeks yet, and the first top aide to President Donald Trump has been forced to resign. This must be some kind of historical record, folks. The exit of Michael Flynn was no real surprise -- he's been relieved of high-level duties before, for what would be described on an elementary school report card as: "does not play well with others." But the speed of his departure and the fact that he was the first out the door was a bit surprising, since Flynn has been loyal to Trump for some time now, and Trump values such loyalty above all else.

To restate the obvious: Flynn is merely the first out the door -- there will doubtless be others following on the same walk of shame. This, in and of itself, isn't all that unusual. All presidents usually wind up having to fire top aides at times, sometimes forcing them to fall on their swords to protect the president and sometimes for screwing up so badly it simply can't be ignored or swept under the carpet. But the exit of Flynn before even one month had passed seems to signify that this sort of thing might become a lot more usual in the Trump administration. The pace Trump has set may mean that the scandals happen a lot faster and more often, but only time will tell if this will be the case (to be fair).

Of course, Flynn's ouster was greeted with unrestrained glee by Democrats. That's to be expected. But even some Republicans are getting worried, and calls for congressional oversight are even beginning to come from Trump's own party. It's not just the Flynn scandal, either -- it's the sheer volume of incompetence that is getting even some conservative columnists concerned. From Jennifer Rubin at the Washington Post this morning:

In just 3½ weeks President Trump has waged war against the media, seen his travel ban go down the tubes, gotten into embarrassing spats with foreign allies, had to boot his national security adviser, become infamous for his inability to deal with reality, given conflicting signals on health-care reform and sparked a backlash among anti-Trump forces who have taken to the streets and to Republican lawmakers‚ town halls. To paraphrase Stephen Miller, in 3½ weeks Trump has had more scandals and screw-ups than many presidents have in their entire term.

That's from a conservative, mind you, and one who sledgehammered the whole Benghazi "scandal" so much people in the comments began calling her "Jenghazi." Some people have even started calling the current scandal "Flynnghazi," which is some sort of poetic justice (CBS went with "Out Like Flynn" to label the scandal, which also is rather amusing).

Watching Sean Spicer's press conference today was pretty enjoyable, in a schadenfreude kind of way, as well. Spicer can try to spin the facts all he wants, but a few things are becoming rather painfully obvious. The first and most obvious of these is the heavy irony for someone to be fired by Trump for lying. Seriously, if all liars were on the chopping block in the West Wing, then there'd be nobody left to turn out the lights after the purge.

Humor aside, though, one very serious point stands out that is worth examining, because of the stunning implications for national security. According to the official version of the scandal, Trump was informed immediately after the acting attorney general brought it to the White House's attention, on January 26. The White House quickly investigated itself, and declared that no laws had been violated and indeed there was nothing wrong at all with Flynn's phone call. That's according to them, but fortunately they're not the final arbiters of what laws or ethical rules have been broken. But the obvious thing about the timeline is that Trump wasn't going to do anything about it until the story broke in the press.

Today, Spicer tried to tell all the reporters what story to write (for a moment there, I could see Melissa McCarthy uttering these lines, but I digress). The real story, according to Spicer, was all the scandalous leaks coming out of his own White House. Not sure how that's any better a story for reporters to write, from the White House's point of view, but whatever. Whether it's a story or not, however, if the media hadn't uncovered the scandal (or been force-fed it by disgruntled national security employees disgusted with their leaders) then nothing would have happened. The lies Flynn told to Vice President Pence and Spicer himself would never have been exposed, and he would have continued in his job. Even though the Justice Department was warning that he might have laid himself open to Russian blackmail. That's pretty astounding when you think about it. Trump was content to have a national security advisor who could be blackmailed by Russia, as long as nobody figured it out.

That's assuming, of course, that Trump ever even heard about the whole scandal before the story blew up in the media a few days ago. He certainly didn't look like he knew what the reporter was talking about when asked about the story on Air Force One a few days ago, that's for sure. Today, Spicer insisted not only that Trump "immediately" heard about it, but also that he "instinctively" knew that no laws had been broken. Just take his word for it!

The other person who comes out of this scandal in a very diminished position is Kellyanne Conway, who finally spun something the wrong way at the wrong time. That was always going to be fairly inevitable, given her loose acquaintance with the truth. But still, she got thrown under the bus pretty quickly yesterday, after assuring a reporter that Flynn still had the full confidence of President Trump. Within an hour, Spicer had released a statement contradicting Conway, which is also somewhat of a first (until now, Conway's flights of fancy have usually been backed up by the White House).

Now, to be fair to her (something she really doesn't deserve, but I do have my own ethics to think of), the line she trotted out is the standard thing any presidential spokesperson is supposed to say -- right up to the point where the aide in question is fired. This "full faith and confidence" endorsement was noticeable in its absence on the Sunday morning political shows, though, so Conway was trying her best to dampen down all the speculation about Flynn's future. But she really should have checked with someone before saying it, even though it is the standard position to take in such situations. Because by the time she uttered it, Flynn was already doomed.

You can posit that Conway just got a little overeager in her defense of Flynn. You can argue that she just wasn't in the loop of the decision to oust Flynn. Or you could even get downright Machiavellian -- perhaps someone told Conway to go say that to the cameras knowing full well what an idiot she'd look like later that evening. When you take into consideration the rumors of battling power cliques in the White House, this last one doesn't seem all that far-fetched, really.

The fallout from Flynn being handed his walking papers certainly isn't over yet. And it is undoubtedly a big black eye for the Trump administration to have to fire someone after only three weeks. But we should all keep our eyes on the most disturbing aspect of the whole scandal -- that Donald Trump was just fine (if he even knew, that is) with a national security advisor who could be blackmailed by the Russians at any time. That's downright scary, when you think about it. Ronald Reagan isn't just turning over in his grave, he's spinning so fast you can't even count the RPMs anymore.

As for Flynn himself, I think the most appropriate quote to sum the entire matter up comes from lyrics by Crosby, Stills, and Nash.

Just a song before I go
A lesson to be learned
Travelling twice the speed of sound
It's easy to get burned

-- Chris Weigant

 

Follow Chris on Twitter: @ChrisWeigant

 

177 Comments on “Just The First To Go”

  1. [1] 
    Elizabeth Miller wrote:

    The WH is trying to distract everyone by saying that this is all about trust.

    That certainly is laughable ... anyway you slice it!

  2. [2] 
    Elizabeth Miller wrote:

    Of course, if that doesn't work, then this is all about the dreaded media leaks.

    That also is rolling-on-the-floor laughable, considering what has transpired in the last year or so.

    Could this all be just an administration in over its head? And, isn't that every bit as distressing as bad as an administration being manipulated by the Kremlin?

  3. [3] 
    ListenWhenYouHear wrote:

    Now, to be fair to her (something she really doesn't deserve, but I do have my own ethics to think of), the line she trotted out is the standard thing any presidential spokesperson is supposed to say -- right up to the point where the aide in question is fired

    I agree that this is what they are supposed to say as long as the person still has a job, so I didn't think this made Conway look that bad compared to how she normally fares.

  4. [4] 
    Elizabeth Miller wrote:

    You can posit that Conway just got a little overeager in her defense of Flynn. You can argue that she just wasn't in the loop of the decision to oust Flynn. Or you could even get downright Machiavellian -- perhaps someone told Conway to go say that to the cameras knowing full well what an idiot she'd look like later that evening.

    Or, you can stop attaching any credibility to her because she has none and, therefore, deserves to be ignored, completely.

  5. [5] 
    MHorton wrote:

    Has anyone used "Gone with the Flynn" yet?

  6. [6] 
    Elizabeth Miller wrote:

    Here's a quote for you, Mr. Horton ...

    It's how the latest William Bradley piece at the Huffington Post concludes:

    "And that Trump needs to explain his Russophilia before it turns out of desperation to Russophobia."

    Let's not lose sight of what the real story is and not get caught up in distractions.

  7. [7] 
    MHorton wrote:

    Well, the REAL story isn't new, or breaking, or surprising.

    Trump's camp has long been infested by people with close ties to Putin. Since the beginning.

    I read probably 9 months ago about Flynn's extensive Russian connections.

    Then there's Manafort, who made billions "consulting" for the corrupt President of the Ukraine, at Putin's behest.

    Interesting thing about Manafort; two of his clients have been overthrown in popular rebellions after a military action against civilians.

    The only reason Manafort was pushed out was, again, because the media scrutiny got too hot, over a 10-15 million dollar payment listed as owed to him in the book of bribes the President kept.

    The same president who stole billions from the Ukraine (decorating much like Trump does) and ordered snipers to fire on unarmed civilians.

    That's what it took to dislodge someone who had openly worked for Russian and Eastern European governments, several of which turned out to be dictators.

    I get the sense though that it's less 45 colluding with Putin than it is he doesn't care/ thinks he's "playing" Putin.

    But the "real story" isn't going to be moved on for weeks, months probably.

    Right now they're just now starting to pull at the threads.

    We'll check back next week, I'm sure CW will have a column on it, since it will be ongoing and likely escalating.

  8. [8] 
    MHorton wrote:

    BTW I agree with you on Conway. She's lost all credibility for life.

    And she's dumb. You don't ACTUALLY SAY THE WORDS ALTERNATIVE FACTS.

    I mean, you can't make up something more Orwellian than a government official insisting they have "alternative facts" that disprove what your own eyes tell you.

    Being a political hack is one thing. Being incompetent is another, and that's our problem.

    For pretty much the entire of human government, there has been corruption and selfishness.

    So, I don't see purging it as an attainable goal, because the people making and enforcing the system can always game the system.

    But for a good 90 years, the US had solid Presidents, of both parties, who took their jobs seriously, and behaved with intelligence, honor, and a reasonable approach to most things. Personally, Eisenhower and Teddy Roosevelt (not in the timeframe because of Jackson) are heroes of mine.

    And I'm confident Teddy would physically assault 45.

    But! There is hope. Because Teddy came up in a time of limitless corruption. He became President because they made him VP to get him out of New York where he was causing too much trouble with his corruption investigations.

    Then the President dies, and their brilliant plan backfired, obviously.

    It seems to me though that free societies respond to their own needs and the environment; the culture acts like an organism and adapts.

    So I'm hoping we have another Teddy coming up, indignant of the lies and corruption, and building up both a righteous hatred for them and the political muscle he's going to need.

    Bonus round! Trump is far less competent than Jackson, the most corrupt President ever!

  9. [9] 
    MHorton wrote:

    Double bonus round! Jackson openly called for genocide, beat a man nearly to death in the Senate, and his inaugural celebration got PRETTY ROWDY.

    Repairs and furniture replacements were required the following week in the White House, I believe.

  10. [10] 
    ListenWhenYouHear wrote:

    Manafort resigned as campaign manager, but he didn't leave the campaign. He was still on Trump's paid staff when Trump won the election, and still lived in an apartment in Trump Tower.

    Don't forget about Trump's other Russophile on his campaign staff, Carter Page. Page was one of five foreign policy advisers named by Trump in March 2016—the same month Manafort came on board. Page was a frequent guest on Russian state media, a harsh critic of U.S. policy, and had a personal stake in Russian oil and gas interests worth millions if sanctions could be lifted. Page’s multiple appearances in Moscow during the campaign and his effusive praise of Putin brought public scrutiny, and in September word leaked that the CIA was investigating his Russian connections. Soon after, Page decided to “take leave” of his position in the Trump campaign.

  11. [11] 
    MHorton wrote:

    @Listen I consider Page in the "Smaller objects from Manafort's orbit"

    But I'd bet after he was pushed out, Trump didn't listen to him, as he didn't seem to listen much when Manafort was officially running things.

    The money and apartment were likely just payoffs, as I'm sure he negotiated one hell of a contract.

    It's like Lindsey Graham said though, there's a silver lining. There will be no lifting of Russian sanctions now.

  12. [12] 
    michale wrote:

    That's from a conservative, mind you,

    Like I said, President Trump pisses off Republicans as much as Democrats..

    A true Independent POTUS...

    But the obvious thing about the timeline is that Trump wasn't going to do anything about it until the story broke in the press.

    Oh puullleeeesssseeeee...

    How many scandals during the Obama years did your messiah learn from the press...

    Give me a break....

  13. [13] 
    michale wrote:

    Woops.. Hit SUBMIT instead of PREVIEW.. DOH!! :D

    "Moving on...."
    -Brian Doyle Murray, SUPERNATURAL

    :D

    Even though the Justice Department was warning that he might have laid himself open to Russian blackmail.

    A determination made by an Obama flunky who puts Party before country and, as such, cannot be trusted..

    Now, to be fair to her (something she really doesn't deserve, but I do have my own ethics to think of), the line she trotted out is the standard thing any presidential spokesperson is supposed to say -- right up to the point where the aide in question is fired. This "full faith and confidence" endorsement was noticeable in its absence on the Sunday morning political shows, though, so Conway was trying her best to dampen down all the speculation about Flynn's future.

    Exactly.. How many Obama flunkies had the full trust of Obama... Right up until the point they were fired..

    But, of course, they all have a '-D' after their names, so it's OK.. :D

    The fallout from Flynn being handed his walking papers certainly isn't over yet. And it is undoubtedly a big black eye for the Trump administration to have to fire someone after only three weeks. But we should all keep our eyes on the most disturbing aspect of the whole scandal -- that Donald Trump was just fine (if he even knew, that is) with a national security advisor who could be blackmailed by the Russians at any time.

    Oh, don't forget! Flynn was a Russian Operative!!! The Hysterical Left Wingery has said so!! hehehehehe :D

    I will allow ya'all yer glee... Far be it from me to stand in the way of this little victory.. It's something ya'all sorely need after the shellacking that ya'all have endured since the 2016 election..

    But, in the grand scheme of things, it will mean very little..

    The Democrat Party is still decimated.. The Democrat Party still has absolutely NO CHANCE of gaining any ground in 2018. Even our newest tro....er... commenter, Hortie Boy, agrees with me...

    So.....

    "Laugh it up, fuzzball.."
    -Han Solo, STAR WARS V, The Empire Strikes Back

    :D

    Trump is still President and the Democrats are still sucking.. :D

  14. [14] 
    michale wrote:

    Liz,

    Of course, if that doesn't work, then this is all about the dreaded media leaks.

    It's funny.. Ya'all castigated leaks during the Obama years.. Now ya'all LOVE the leaks...

    Isn't that...oh.. I dunno.. Hypocritical???

    Could this all be just an administration in over its head? And, isn't that every bit as distressing as bad as an administration being manipulated by the Kremlin?

    Oh com'on... Do you HONESTLY believe that!??

    PLEASE tell me you are not that partisan that you would buy into such a ridiculous fantasy that has absolutely NO BASIS in facts....

  15. [15] 
    michale wrote:

    Or, you can stop attaching any credibility to her because she has none and, therefore, deserves to be ignored, completely.

    And yet, the Left Wingery simply CANNOT do that.. :D

    "And that Trump needs to explain his Russophilia before it turns out of desperation to Russophobia."

    You mean, like the Russophilia that the Obama Administration had during the 2012 Election??

    Or the Russophobia that the entire Left Wingery has today???

    I am not sure which you mean...

  16. [16] 
    michale wrote:

    And she's dumb. You don't ACTUALLY SAY THE WORDS ALTERNATIVE FACTS.

    Yea, you just live by them, like the entirety of the Left Wingery.. :^/

    So I'm hoping we have another Teddy coming up, indignant of the lies and corruption, and building up both a righteous hatred for them and the political muscle he's going to need.

    Or you hope that President Trump dies or is assassinated... :D

    But I'd bet after he was pushed out, Trump didn't listen to him, as he didn't seem to listen much when Manafort was officially running things.

    Any facts to support that??

    Of course not.. Ya only yell and scream for facts from others..

    You NEVER have any facts to support your claims..

  17. [17] 
    michale wrote:

    Don't forget about Trump's other Russophile on his campaign staff, Carter Page. Page was one of five foreign policy advisers named by Trump in March 2016—the same month Manafort came on board. Page was a frequent guest on Russian state media, a harsh critic of U.S. policy, and had a personal stake in Russian oil and gas interests worth millions if sanctions could be lifted. Page’s multiple appearances in Moscow during the campaign and his effusive praise of Putin brought public scrutiny, and in September word leaked that the CIA was investigating his Russian connections. Soon after, Page decided to “take leave” of his position in the Trump campaign.

    So, what you are saying is that President Trump is well versed in the intricacies of Russia..

    Pretty smart move, considering that Russia is the US's number one enemy...

    Something Mitt Romney said in 2012 and ya'all laughed at....

    Now that a guy with a '-R' is in the White House, NOW ya'all are saying the exact opposite about Russia...

    How is this not hypocrisy???

  18. [18] 
    michale wrote:

    The Political Assassination of Michael Flynn
    https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2017-02-14/the-political-assassination-of-michael-flynn

    This is nothing but a political hit job by FORMER president Obama's staff..

    Nothing but politics... Yaaawwwnnnnnnn

  19. [19] 
    michale wrote:

    America's spies anonymously took down Michael Flynn. That is deeply worrying.
    http://theweek.com/articles/680068/americas-spies-anonymously-took-down-michael-flynn-that-deeply-worrying

    Instead of cheering, ya'all should be deeply worried..

    But it's not surprising that the Left Wingery puts Party before Country..

    This has been true for the last 8 years and why should the Left Wingery change now??

  20. [20] 
    michale wrote:

    Bumps in the Road: Trump vs. Obama
    http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2017/02/15/bumps_in_the_road_trump_vs_obama_133088.html

    How soon ya'all forget how Obama's first 100 days were wracked with turmoil and scandal...

    Of course, ya'all were supportive back then.. So was I, as I had voted for Obama in 2008...

    But what's going on now is nothing but a new administration that is not POLITICAL having it's settling in pains...

    I know, I know.. Ya'all are gleefully making huge mountains out of tiny measly molehills...

    But that is what partisan hacks do...

    This is nothing but a big yawn-fest... Red meat for the Hysterical Left, to be sure.. But they will find something else shiny to play with in a week or so... :D

    Probably even sooner...

  21. [21] 
    michale wrote:

    On another front, President Trump's deportation program is moving ahead quite nicely..

    Exclusive: U.S. arrests Mexican immigrant in Seattle covered by Obama program
    https://www.yahoo.com/news/exclusive-u-arrests-mexican-immigrant-seattle-covered-obama-223854172.html

    Illegal immigrant criminals are being rounded up and shipped out of here...

    Way to go, President Trump!!!

    It's nice to have a POTUS who actually keeps his campaign promises..

    This Flynn non-issue is just a way for the Democrats to save face and ignore how decimated their Party is... :D

  22. [22] 
    neilm wrote:

    MH[7]

    Right now they're just now starting to pull at the threads.

    This is where the "alternative facts" statement and 45 belligerence could destroy a lot of the remaining approval ratings.

    I always saw three groups of voters for 45:

    1. Fanboys
    2. Dyed-in-the-wool Republicans - not fans of 45 but will always vote the ticket
    3. Anti-Hillary nose holders

    The pathetic approval ratings for 45 at the start of his Presidency probably reflect most of 'nose holders' abandoning him now Hillary is out of the picture, in addition to a segment of 'dyed-in-the-wool'.

    The more 45 looks in the pocket of Putin, the more support he will lose from the 'dyed-in-the-wool'. Other factors will include the SNL/Late Night effect (objects of ridicule) and ridiculous own goals such as insultingly stupid lies (bigger inauguration crowd ever, buses from MA, etc.), incompetence (Muslim ban fiasco, Betsy DeVos), and venality (golfing every weekend and perceived get-rich-quick schemes like the reasons stated in the Melania lawsuit).

    The wheels really come off the bus when he starts to shed the 'fanboys'.

  23. [23] 
    neilm wrote:

    CW might want to re-instate the "Poll Watch" segment - the polls for 45 are likely to be of great interest in their own right - particularly when the types of support (see my take above) are analyzed - if the polls can get that detailed.

  24. [24] 
    michale wrote:

    CW might want to re-instate the "Poll Watch" segment - the polls for 45 are likely to be of great interest in their own right - particularly when the types of support (see my take above) are analyzed - if the polls can get that detailed.

    President Trump's poll numbers have been rising steadily...

    Which is completely in keeping with what patriotic Americans think of President Trump..

    It's only the Hysterical Left Wingery who is up in arms..

    This is where the "alternative facts" statement and 45 belligerence could destroy a lot of the remaining approval ratings.

    It's funny how you and Hortie-Poo both use the 45 moniker..

    Things that make ya go "hmmmmm"... hehehehehe J/K

    The wheels really come off the bus when he starts to shed the 'fanboys'.

    TRUMP IS TOAST prediction #1188 :D

    But take heart.. Out of one thousand one hundred and eighty eight, you got ONE right.. :D

  25. [25] 
    neilm wrote:

    Elizabeth [4]

    Or, you can stop attaching any credibility to her because she has none and, therefore, deserves to be ignored, completely.

    SNL really nailed it with the zombie/fatal attraction skit. Conway is discovering what so many people discover when dealing with 45 - the teflon effect only works for him. For everybody else there is the reverse Midas effect.

    Flynn managed to be so out there that he took himself down, but Spicer, Conway, Preibus and Pence are all starting to tarnish. Miller is a fresh new face of craziness that I'm surprised Ivanka hasn't warned daddy not to let out from under his rock, but he has "crash and burn" written all over him.

    Bannon, as usual, is smart enough to stay away from the cameras. I wonder if Pence will wise up and become the "invisible VP".

  26. [26] 
    michale wrote:

    Flynn managed to be so out there that he took himself down,

    Already with the spin, eh??

    It was Obama's intelligence minions who took out Flynn...

    Probably best for the country that Flynn is out, but it does not bode well that a prior administration is actively working against the current administration to the detriment of the country...

  27. [27] 
    michale wrote:

    SNL really nailed it with the zombie/fatal attraction skit. Conway is discovering what so many people discover when dealing with 45 - the teflon effect only works for him. For everybody else there is the reverse Midas effect.

    It's pretty funny (in a sad pathetic sort of way) that the Left Wingery puts it's political stock in SNL.... :D

    And THEN they whine and complain because of the Right's "fake news"... :D

    Ya just gotta love the irony... I know I do... :D

  28. [28] 
    michale wrote:

    It hasn't even been four weeks yet, and the first top aide to President Donald Trump has been forced to resign.

    I am constrained to point out that Obama lost his first aide after only THREE weeks..

    But why let facts intrude on a good political shellacking.. :D

  29. [29] 
    neilm wrote:

    I wonder how the "Breitbart" effect will play out.

    With Bannon having a stranglehold on one of the top vehicles to talk to Republicans, the other factions in the White House will find themselves under attack if they go after Bannon. This puts them in the position of needing to curry favor with other media outlets to get their side of the story out and defend themselves if Bannon decides to come after them.

    Obviously there are three classes of media to engage:

    1. The Infowars type - but that is playing with fire, and very few people take these outlets seriously

    2. Fox News - the other big player on the Right - if Breitbart starts to take eyeballs from them, they might become somewhat anti-Bannon

    3. The real news outlets - but their journalists are going to expect real stories, not self serving rumors - and leaks will be subject to real Whie House investigations (unlike the white wash Flynn got).

    Interesting times.

  30. [30] 
    michale wrote:

    The real news outlets - but their journalists are going to expect real stories, not self serving rumors - and leaks will be subject to real Whie House investigations (unlike the white wash Flynn got).

    Real news outlets??

    You mean like the NY Grimes and WaPoop who have had to retract dozens of stories???

    That's the problem with the Left Wingery.... That is EXACTLY why ya'all were so wrong about the election..

    You only believe what ya'all WANT to believe.. Ya'all only believe what suits yer agenda...

    The facts that prove this are overwhelming..

    But you don't want facts... You only want a nice safe cocoon where you can believe what you want and don't let reality intrude...

  31. [31] 
    neilm wrote:

    From scanning Michale's posts we can see the fantasy storyline developing:

    1. It is Obama's fault - always a popular line
    2. The intelligence community are part of the establishment so they are anti-45 - i.e. this is the "revenge of the swamp beasts"
    3. A martyr has been born - it is an attack on one of ours

    This will play well with the 45 fanboys, but will it play well in Peoria?

  32. [32] 
    michale wrote:

    But lately I get the feeling that Trump’s critics have evolved from expecting Trump to be Hitler to preferring it. Obviously they don’t prefer it in a conscious way. But the alternative to Trump becoming Hitler is that they have to live out the rest of their lives as confirmed morons.
    -Scott Adams

    This is exactly my point about having rational and logical discussions..

    How can ANYONE who thinks that Trump is Hitler be ANYTHING but a total and complete loon???

    And how can ANYONE have a rational and logical discussion with a person who is confirmed as a total and complete loon???

  33. [33] 
    michale wrote:

    1. It is Obama's fault - always a popular line

    Yep, just as popular when you and your fellow Left Wingers played the "IT'S ALL BUSH'S FAULT" over and over ad-nasuem..

    I told you at the time that it would come to this..

    Looks like I was proven right once again.. :D

    2. The intelligence community are part of the establishment so they are anti-45 - i.e. this is the "revenge of the swamp beasts"

    That's what the FACTS clearly show.. Of course, you are not interested in any facts that disrupt yer fantasy Left Winger utopia... :D

    This will play well with the 45 fanboys, but will it play well in Peoria?

    Considering that President Trump's poll numbers continue to rise, I am guessing it is...

    It just SUCKS that you have to deal with President Trump, doesn't it?? :D

  34. [34] 
    neilm wrote:

    Yale and Harvard unite against 45.

    Martha Minow, the dean and professor of law at Harvard Law School, and Robert Post, the dean and professor of law at Yale Law School wrote an op-ed blasting 45's attack on the judiciary and the "clash of civilizations" narrative. Are there no end to 45's powers to unite ... against him ;)

    https://www.bostonglobe.com/opinion/2017/02/10/standing-for-called-law/VLbDYmrwpdjCn8qs5FPJaK/story.html

  35. [35] 
    michale wrote:

    Yale and Harvard unite against 45.

    And in other fantastic and unbelievable news, HuffPoop says something critical about President Trump...

    :D hehehehehehehe

    "Com'on, gimme something I can USE!!!
    My give-a-damn's busted"

    -Jo Dee Messina

    :D heh

  36. [36] 
    neilm wrote:

    45's numbers are dropping, even in the sweetheart polls:

    Economist/YouGov drop of 9
    Gallup drop of 15!
    PPP drop of 10
    Rasmussen drop of 10

    Even Rasmussen can't polish this turd.

    Economist/YouGov 1/23 - 1/25 2312 RV 43 39 4
    Economist/YouGov 1/28 - 1/31 1278 RV 47 45 2
    Economist/YouGov 2/05 - 2/07 1315 RV 44 49 -5

    Gallup 1/22 - 1/24 1500 A 46 45 1
    Gallup 1/29 - 1/31 1500 A 43 52 -9
    Gallup 2/11 - 2/13 1500 A 40 54 -14

    PPP (D) 1/23 - 1/24 1043 RV 44 44 Tie
    PPP (D) 1/30 - 1/31 725 RV 47 49 -2
    PPP (D) 2/07 - 2/08 712 RV 43 53 -10

    Rasmussen Reports 1/22 - 1/24 1500 LV 57 43 14
    Rasmussen Reports 1/29 - 1/31 1500 LV 53 47 6
    Rasmussen Reports 2/9 - 2/13 1500 LV 52 48 4

    Source: RealClearPolitics

    http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/other/president_trump_job_approval-6179.html#polls

  37. [37] 
    michale wrote:

    https://www.bostonglobe.com/opinion/2017/02/10/standing-for-called-law/VLbDYmrwpdjCn8qs5FPJaK/story.html

    So, the liberal rag would be ALL supportive of President Trump enforcing immigration law now and deporting all the illegal immigrant criminals??

    And, since you are (now) a "law" kinda guy....

    "Mister I AM DA LAW!!"
    -Rob Schneider, JUDGE DREDD

    :D

    .... you would also support President Trump's deportation orders, right??

    Of course not..

    The Left Wingery is ONLY about the law when it suits their agenda...

    It's all so perfectly transparent..

  38. [38] 
    michale wrote:

    "Mister I AM DA LAW!!"
    -Rob Schneider, JUDGE DREDD

    Rut roh... The Grand Poobah is gonna smite me down for THAT! hehehehehe :D

  39. [39] 
    neilm wrote:

    Another little nugget, this from the PPP poll:

    "After 2 Weeks, Voters Yearn For Obama

    Raleigh, N.C. – Less than 2 weeks into Donald Trump's tenure as President, 40%
    of voters already want to impeach him. That's up from 35% of voters who wanted
    to impeach him a week ago. Only 48% of voters say that they would be opposed to
    Trump's impeachment. "

    Source: http://www.publicpolicypolling.com/pdf/2017/PPP_Release_National_2217.pdf

    Brutal.

  40. [40] 
    neilm wrote:

    How Rasmussen plays with the numbers.

    You may have noticed in the numbers from above that all the polls have 45's approval rating under 50% except Rasmussen.

    But note one thing - the other polls don't add up to 100 - they include the don't know, or neither approve or disapprove numbers. Rasmussen adds up to 100% because they calculate the published percentage based on the subset of numbers that show either approval or disapproval.

    Rasmussen's numbers get more interesting when you look at the "strongly approve" vs. "strongly disapprove" only (normally I wouldn't do this, but they do it themselves on their website if you dig in - see link below).

    Now 45's rating looks like:
    Strongly approve 36%
    Strongly disapprove 39%
    Approval index -3%

    Source:

    http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/trump_administration/trump_approval_index_history

  41. [41] 
    michale wrote:

    Public Policy Polling?? :D

    Seriously, dood.. You would have been better off going with http://www.leftwingrag.com :D

    How Rasmussen plays with the numbers.

    Of course..

    The poll that YOU DON'T LIKE, the poll that totally decimates your position is the ONLY poll that "plays with the numbers"....

    Again, seriously dood.. Could you POSSIBLY be more transparent??

    Why don't you just say, "I don't believe in ANY polls that is not compatible with my Left Wingery fantasy"

    I mean, that would have the advantage of at least being HONEST... :D

    (normally I wouldn't do this,

    But you do it NOW because you don't like what the poll says... :D

    Regardless, the *ONLY* poll that has any real meaning around here is the RCP Poll Of Polls..

    And President Trump's poll numbers have been rising more or less steadily...

    Like I said.. I know that it sucks for you that President Trump is gaining approval and that patriotic Americans are behind the President 1000%....

    But that's the reality whether you want to face it or not...

    :D

  42. [42] 
    michale wrote:

    How Rasmussen plays with the numbers.

    You may have noticed in the numbers from above that all the polls have 45's approval rating under 50% except Rasmussen.

    But note one thing - the other polls don't add up to 100 - they include the don't know, or neither approve or disapprove numbers. Rasmussen adds up to 100% because they calculate the published percentage based on the subset of numbers that show either approval or disapproval.

    Rasmussen's numbers get more interesting when you look at the "strongly approve" vs. "strongly disapprove" only (normally I wouldn't do this, but they do it themselves on their website if you dig in - see link below).

    In other words...

    "Look, people! When you ignore the numbers you don't like, you can prove anything you want!!!"
    -Neil

    And THIS is what you people call "facts"????

    It's no wonder the Democrat Party has been totally and utterly decimated... :^/

  43. [43] 
    michale wrote:

    Another little nugget, this from the PPP poll:

    "After 2 Weeks, Voters Yearn For Obama

    Raleigh, N.C. – Less than 2 weeks into Donald Trump's tenure as President, 40%
    of voters already want to impeach him. That's up from 35% of voters who wanted
    to impeach him a week ago. Only 48% of voters say that they would be opposed to
    Trump's impeachment. "

    Public Policy Polling is a U.S. Democratic polling firm based in Raleigh, North Carolina. PPP was founded in 2001 by businessman Dean Debnam, the firm's current president and chief executive officer.

    hehehehehehehe

    That's just as believable as a BREITBART Poll that says that President Trump is the second coming of the messiah..

    Com'on, Neil!! I expected better from you...

    This is so lame I would have expected it from Paula or Kick or Hortie-poo...

    You REALLY need to up yer game... I am getting bored.. :D

    "You can run me, you can starve me, you can beat me, you can kill me.. Just don't BORE me!!"
    -Clint Eastwood, HEARTBREAK RIDGE

    :D

  44. [44] 
    TheStig wrote:

    For the record, the odds of Harrison Ford almost taking out a 737 in any given year are approximately 3720 to 1.

  45. [45] 
    michale wrote:

    For the record, the odds of Harrison Ford almost taking out a 737 in any given year are approximately 3720 to 1.

    Albeit, that was pretty funny...

    Give President Marshall a break.. He's getting on in years... But he hasn't been right since the door of the Millennium Falcon fell on him and almost killed him...

    You should be so cognizant when yer that age, TS.... :D

  46. [46] 
    TheStig wrote:

    "We have a cancer within-close to the presidency, that's growing. It's growing daily. It's compounding. It grows geometrically now, because it compounds itself. That'll be clear as I explain, you know, some of the details of why it is, and it basically is because (1) we're being blackmailed; (2) people are going to start perjuring themselves very quickly that have not had to perjure themselves to protect other people and the like."

    - John Dean, 1973

    http://millercenter.org/educationalresources/cancer-presidency

  47. [47] 
    michale wrote:

    "We have a cancer within-close to the presidency, that's growing. It's growing daily. It's compounding. It grows geometrically now, because it compounds itself. That'll be clear as I explain, you know, some of the details of why it is, and it basically is because (1) we're being blackmailed; (2) people are going to start perjuring themselves very quickly that have not had to perjure themselves to protect other people and the like."

    - John Dean, 1973

    Ooooooo Nothing like scary fact-less fear-mongering to TRY and scare the masses...

    Do you have ANYTHING but baseless fear-mongering??

    No??

    Didna think so...

  48. [48] 
    MHorton wrote:

    Michale is a lying, slandering troll, who uses his money to purchase a place to troll people because he's been kicked out of every comment section an actual company who can't be bribed controls.

  49. [49] 
    MHorton wrote:

    You guys need to stop talking to the shitbag liar. All he does is distract you from having an ACTUAL conversatoin, with his dismissal of anything he disagrees with.

  50. [50] 
    neilm wrote:

    We need some real investigations going on into the role Russian Intelligence is playing in our elections and political system.

    We need an independent council with the powers to bring everybody in front of him or her on oath. This is not normal. And a political whitewash by McConnell and Sessions will not cut it.

  51. [51] 
    michale wrote:

    I thought you were leaving Troll? It's clear we want you gone, and you promised to leave.

    Hortie poo!! :D

    The troll returns...

    So far.. YOU'RE the only one who has said they want me gone... Even a founder told you how wrong you are...

    What else can we expect from a proven liar who can't handle facts.. :D

    Deal with it, Keyboard Warrior.. You are the one who is polluting the comments section with your constant trolling...

    Aside to Neil..

    I wore the big-boy pants for a while... It didn't work.. The stalker/troll still persists...

    Now I'll handle it my way....

  52. [52] 
    michale wrote:

    We need some real investigations going on into the role Russian Intelligence is playing in our elections and political system.

    How come you didn't want any "real investigations" back when Mitt Romney said that Russia was the #1 geopolitical enemy??

    We need an independent council with the powers to bring everybody in front of him or her on oath.

    NOW yer in love with independent counsels...

    When NOT-45 was decimating State Dept security, you HATED independent counsels...

    It's all about the '-X' after the person's name.....

  53. [53] 
    michale wrote:

    You guys need to stop talking to the shitbag liar. All he does is distract you from having an ACTUAL conversatoin

    Please tell me, pathetic little man..

    What is a conversatoin??? :D

    Apparently, when they were passing out the 'brains', you thought they said 'trains', so you asked for a short one.. :D

    Face the facts, little "combat mode" keyboard ninja...

    Yer impotent here.. :D

    Yer nothing...

  54. [54] 
    michale wrote:

    Michale is a lying, slandering troll, who uses his money to purchase a place to troll people because he's been kicked out of every comment section an actual company who can't be bribed controls.

    So, now you are accusing our host of accepting bribes.. :^/

    Sad... Sad and pathetic..

    And what is REALLY disappointing is that absolutely NO ONE but me will step up to our host's defense...

    So very disappointing....

  55. [55] 
    michale wrote:

    Well, it would have been nice to keep this commentary on topic and free from trolling..

    But, apparently, Keyboard Warrior Hortie-poo (in 'Combat Mode' hehehehehe ) had other ideas...

    Tis sad, tis true.... Tis true, tis sad...

  56. [56] 
    MHorton wrote:

    Leave Troll.

    You came in, changed thing to attacks and partisan lies, and you want to act like I changed the subject.

    You're a liar, a slanderer, and a troll.

    I told you I was going to call you out on it every time, and here we are.

    Call me all the pet names you want. It only proves you're a troll. But you've admitted you're a troll, you've admitted you enjoy pissing people off, and we know the only reason you're here is because this is the only place you can bribe your way onto a comments section anymore.

    You're a shitbag troll.

  57. [57] 
    nypoet22 wrote:

    CW treats us like grown-ups here, and expects us to act like grown-ups. michale and mr. horton, kindly turn it down a few notches?

    JL

  58. [58] 
    neilm wrote:

    Altohone (et al.):

    Here is a post in Barry Ritholz blog that responds to a recent National Review article claiming that the middle class squeeze isn't happening.

    It brings into play some of the discussions we have had around both nominal and relative wealth inequality.

    https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2017-02-15/the-middle-class-squeeze-isn-t-made-up

  59. [59] 
    nypoet22 wrote:

    @neil/TS,

    absolutely agree, an independent investigation is needed, unencumbered by interference from any branch but the judiciary.

    JL

  60. [60] 
    nypoet22 wrote:

    @neil,

    thank you for sharing from ritholtz, he's an excellent columnist, and my second favorite blogger.

    JL

  61. [61] 
    michale wrote:

    CW treats us like grown-ups here, and expects us to act like grown-ups. michale and mr. horton, kindly turn it down a few notches?

    As always, I am happy to comply..

    But I won't be set up for a punching bag from some lame keyboard warrior in "combat mode"... I wore the "big boy" pants per request and what did it get me?? More attacks, more abuse, more stalking and more trolling..

    If you have a plan that DOESN'T involve me having to put up with more abuse and more attacks, I am all ears... If not, I am handling it my way...

    He stops, I stop...

    It's that simple...

  62. [62] 
    michale wrote:

    Keyboard Warrior,

    You came in, changed thing to attacks and partisan lies, and you want to act like I changed the subject.

    And yet it was YOU who came in and tried to change everything to personal attacks and trolling...

    Yer the only troll here, sunshine... You do exactly what trolls do.. Stalk people, make personal attacks and generally lay waste to a forum...

  63. [63] 
    michale wrote:

    and WE know the only reason you're here is because this is the only place you can bribe your way onto a comments section anymore.

    WOW...

    And ya'all let this total dirtbag make these kinds of claims without a SINGLE comment in opposition...

    So, apparently, this scumbag speaks for ya'all now...

    Sad....

  64. [64] 
    michale wrote:

    absolutely agree, an independent investigation is needed, unencumbered by interference from any branch but the judiciary.

    Isn't it funny how ya'all were OPPOSED to an independent investigation when the administration had a '-D' after it..

    I am SUUUREE that it's a complete coincidence, right?? :D

  65. [65] 
    TheStig wrote:

    Trump's worst nightmare:

    1) NSA electronic evesdropping....

    2) Candidate Trump or apprentices caught cutting deals with Putin or Putin minions.....or Saudi's....Chinese etc.

    3) Knowledgeable NSA official prompts a senior member of Congress about some interesting classified transcripts (not quite a leak, more like dampness suggesting where a leak might be)......

    4) Congress member asks to privately review interesting transcripts and makes a carefully redacted summary public.....

    This is the political equivalent of charcoal, sulfur, nitrate and a match.

    Flynn was jettisoned after just 1 and 2. Close call.

  66. [66] 
    michale wrote:

    From the Friday http://FTP...

    20/20 means clear vision - not only of the past but of the present and hopefully the future.

    That's my point..

    Are the Democrats using "clear vision" to assess their loss in 2016??

    Or are they just clinging to scapegoats like the Russians, the Electoral College and/or Fake News??

    If the Democrats don't have clear 20/20 vision and assess their loss honestly, how is that going to help them in 2020???

  67. [67] 
    TheStig wrote:

    Addendum to 65:

    “Where are the Snowdens of Yesteryear?” -

    Heller, Catch 22

    I never miss a chance to include a good C22 quote!

  68. [68] 
    michale wrote:

    That's my point..

    Are the Democrats using "clear vision" to assess their loss in 2016??

    Or are they just clinging to scapegoats like the Russians, the Electoral College and/or Fake News??

    If the Democrats don't have clear 20/20 vision and assess their loss honestly, how is that going to help them in 2020???

    You see, this is exactly the issue here..

    I am constantly being accused of not having facts..

    But the REAL problem here, the REAL reason for the ascendance of trolls and stalkers like Kick and Hortie-Poo and the like is not because I don't have facts...

    It's because I have facts that ya'all don't like..

    It's because I have facts that ya'all can't handle, facts that ya'all can't address...

    THAT is at the root of all the hatred and bigotry ya'all spew...

  69. [69] 
    michale wrote:

    JL,

    My sincerest apologies..

    I didn't adequately digest your FTP comment...

    It sounds like we are in agreement and I mistakenly built a case on the misunderstanding that we were not in agreement..

    Again, my apologies...

  70. [70] 
    TheStig wrote:

    Another addendum to 65:

    NYT "Flynn was Brought Down by Illegal Legal Leaks to News Media Trump Says"

    Yup, he is aware of the danger, spinning, but he's the initiative. Where is Roy Cohn when you REALLY need him.

  71. [71] 
    michale wrote:

    Yup, he is aware of the danger, spinning, but he's the initiative. Where is Roy Cohn when you REALLY need him.

    In other words, yer perfectly OK with illegal leaks, as long as they serve yer ideological agenda... :D

    It's funny.. You made it a point to state that you won't participate in the comments any more..

    Yet, when we're infested with stalkers and trolls, you come out of the woodwork...

    Interesting timing.. :D

  72. [72] 
    TheStig wrote:

    70 should read he's lost the initiative. Liz is right...CW, please add an edit button.

  73. [73] 
    TheStig wrote:

    OMG!!!! Trump is comparing the leaks to Russia! His best buddy Russia! Does he think people won't notice? The is Foo Foo bird stuff....for those who don't know, a Foo Foo bird flies in rhetorical circles with his head up his ass.

  74. [74] 
    michale wrote:

    The is Foo Foo bird stuff....for those who don't know, a Foo Foo bird flies in rhetorical circles with his head up his ass.

    Hmmmmmm Sounds like a lot of people here.. :D

  75. [75] 
    michale wrote:

    Trump promises Israel that Iran will never get bomb
    https://www.yahoo.com/news/trump-promises-israel-iran-never-bomb-175254468.html

    Now THAT is leadership!!!! :D

  76. [76] 
    Kick wrote:

    And down goes Puzder. Thanks, Oprah! ;)

  77. [77] 
    michale wrote:

    http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2017/02/15/puzder-expected-to-withdraw-as-labor-nominee-sources-say.html

    Damn, Neil...

    Ya might be 2 for 1188....

    I hope this isn't the start of a trend..
    -Devil, BEDAZZLED

    :D

  78. [78] 
    MHorton wrote:

    I'll turn it down a notch when the admitted troll leaves. He has proven he has no interest in acting like an adult for more than a few hours.

    I'm tired of him getting to do what he wants.

    And yes, CW accepted what amounts to a bribe, because it's been stated openly the only reason you are here are your large donations.

    Michale is a liar, a slanderer and a troll.

  79. [79] 
    MHorton wrote:

    For note I had stopped all night last night.

    Then today, here comes Michale with dozens of attacks.

    So no, Michale, it's another lie that you stopped.

    Stop lying, Troll.

  80. [80] 
    MHorton wrote:

    Final note: When I say "I believe" or "I think" you can't act like I'm an idiot or being disinegenous for not having facts.

    They're opinions, not statement of fact.

    And I KNOW you know this, because you're not an idiot.

    You just want to argue and insult people for anything they said, opinion, fact, true or false.

  81. [81] 
    michale wrote:

    For note I had stopped all night last night.

    And the road turd CONTINUES to lie...

    Oh, I know who he is too.

    Just adding it to the record so that others who read this can see how easy it is. Maybe they will Google it themselves.

    Tuesday, February 14th, 2017 at 16:17 PST
    http://www.chrisweigant.com/2017/02/13/trump-should-cut-his-losses/#comment-94354

    Which was 1917 hrs, my time.. That's 7:17pm for this pissant faux-"marine".... I was enjoying a nice Valentine Day dinner with my lovely wife and her sister and you were here being a pissant little troll....

    Then today, here comes Michale with dozens of attacks.

    Just answering your attacks, Troll...

    You want it stopped, you have the power to stop it...

    Until that time happens, I'll handle you like I handle all trolls...

    And yes, CW accepted what amounts to a bribe, because it's been stated openly the only reason you are here are your large donations.

    And I'll continue to call you out for your attacks on my friend..

    As long as yer acting like a pissant little pathetic troll, that is how I am going to treat you...

    My apologies to the rest of ya'all that you have to endure it, but it will stop when he stops his attacks on myself and my friends...

    You have been asked to stop by more than one Weigantian, Troll....

    Use some sense if you have any....

  82. [82] 
    MHorton wrote:

    Nothing on this thread mentioned you in anyway. SO why did you respond by insulting me?

    You're a troll, a liar, and a slanderer. Leave, Troll.

    You have no friends for me to attack.

  83. [83] 
    MHorton wrote:

    Are you getting mad, Troll? It sounds like you're not having fun anymore.

  84. [84] 
    MHorton wrote:

    The comment wasn't at you, and it wasn't insulting. But that was 7pm. Then you quit.

    I made a dozen or so posts after that, never mentioning you, completely calm and about policies and predictions.

    It's YOU that is the problem. For the 12 hours you were gone, there was no animosity, insults, gloating or attacks on these comments.

    And we even disagree on stuff!

  85. [85] 
    MHorton wrote:

    I love all the personal attacks you're trying out on me.

    Faux-Marine? LOLOLOL Sure thing bro.

    Make up all the names you want; you've been a troll for twenty years, and I'm not going to let you freely troll this site anymore.

  86. [86] 
    MHorton wrote:

    Michale is a liar, a slanderer, and a troll.

  87. [87] 
    MHorton wrote:

    "But I'd bet after he was pushed out, Trump didn't listen to him, as he didn't seem to listen much when Manafort was officially running things.

    Any facts to support that??

    Of course not.. Ya only yell and scream for facts from others..

    You NEVER have any facts to support your claims.."

    What did I say in this thread to deserve that? I never have facts? There's no facts to support or deny my guess. And it's clearly a guess.

    If you wanted to end it, you'd have just not responded to any of my comments on this thread.

  88. [88] 
    MHorton wrote:

    Let's see, "It's funny how you and Hortie-Poo both use the 45 moniker.."

    So, you wanna call me childish names on a thread I never mentioned you on, but I was attacking you?

  89. [89] 
    michale wrote:

    Nothing on this thread mentioned you in anyway. SO why did you respond by insulting me?

    Really???

    [48] MHorton wrote:
    Michale is a lying, slandering troll, who uses his money to purchase a place to troll people because he's been kicked out of every comment section an actual company who can't be bribed controls.

    [ Permalink ] [ Wednesday, February 15th, 2017 at 09:39 PST ]
    [49] MHorton wrote:
    You guys need to stop talking to the shitbag liar. All he does is distract you from having an ACTUAL conversatoin, with his dismissal of anything he disagrees with.

    [ Permalink ] [ Wednesday, February 15th, 2017 at 09:48 PST ]

    Why do you continue to lie???

    Make up all the names you want; you've been a troll for twenty years, and I'm not going to let you freely troll this site anymore.

    Yea.. YOU want to troll this site and make a total mess of it as you are doing right now...

    What did I say in this thread to deserve that? I never have facts? There's no facts to support or deny my guess. And it's clearly a guess.

    And I asked you to support your guess with some facts..

    Wha??? You can whine and complain about me allegedly not having any facts, but you can spew all your guesses and shit without ANY facts to back them up???

    How does that work, exactly...

    You want me to shut up about you, you shut up about me...

    What part of that is too complicated for your two-brain cell noggin to understand???

  90. [90] 
    neilm wrote:

    As I thought, Puzder was under more scrutiny than he could stand.

    "Another one bites the dust".

    Yeah!

  91. [91] 
    michale wrote:

    As I thought, Puzder was under more scrutiny than he could stand.

    "Another one bites the dust".

    Yeah!

    While it's not official, yer looking like ya called it..

    Congrats...

    Be hilarious if President Trump nominates someone that the Left Wingery hates even more... :D

  92. [92] 
    michale wrote:

    Plane hits deer, has to make emergency landing
    http://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/local/article132868979.html

    Well, there's a headline you don't see every day.... :D

  93. [93] 
    Paula wrote:

    From Newsweek: http://www.newsweek.com/allies-intercept-russia-trump-adviser-communications-557283

    These operations reflect a serious breakdown in the long-standing faith in the direction of American policy by some of the country’s most important allies. Worse, the United States is now in a situation that may be unprecedented—where European governments know more about what is going on in the executive branch than any elected American official. To date, the Republican-controlled Congress has declined to conduct hearings to investigate the links between Trump’s overseas business partners and foreign governments, or the activities between Russia and officials in the Trump campaign and administration—the very areas being examined by the intelligence services of at least two American allies.

  94. [94] 
    MHorton wrote:

    Now you're quoting the things I said AFTER you said I had already attacked you as signs that I attacked you first?

    GTFO, you lying Troll.

    I'm not trolling these comments. I'm trolling YOU. Like I told you I would.

  95. [95] 
    michale wrote:

    I'm not trolling these comments. I'm trolling YOU. Like I told you I would.

    So, you admit that you're the troll here..

    Well, that's a start.. I am proud of you that you can finally admit the truth... :D

    Congrats...

  96. [96] 
    michale wrote:

    Now you're quoting the things I said AFTER you said I had already attacked you as signs that I attacked you first?

    Hay troll....

    Who'se on First??? :D

  97. [97] 
    Paula wrote:

    http://m.motherjones.com/politics/2017/02/donald-trump-cant-come-clean-on-russia-michael-flynn

    Trump would lose all legitimacy as president were he to admit that anything of this sort transpired. There are some deeds that cannot be acknowledged. Expecting Trump and his lieutenants to confess that his campaign or business associates were networking with the Kremlin or Russian intelligence is not realistic—especially after their months of denial. (Trump also for months refused to accept the US intelligence assessment that Russia was behind the hacking and leaking aimed at Democratic targets, and when he finally bent on this point, he downplayed Moscow's meddling in the election.) Trump cannot continue to present himself as the triumphant winner of a fair election if it turns out his own people were palling around with Moscow.

  98. [98] 
    MHorton wrote:

    I said openly yesterday I was going to troll you. I never denied that I'm trolling you.

    Why can't you answer my questions?

    Oh right, because you're a lying, slandering troll.

    Again, how can you use statements I made IN RESPONSE TO YOUR COMMENTS THIS MORNING, as proof I attacked you last night after you left?

    The volume and content of my comments while you were away speak for themselves; I want to have in depth, thoughtful discussions.

    Again, if you really wanted to end it, like you said, you could have just not attacked me on this thread today, as NOTHING I SAID ON THIS THREAD HAD ANYTHING TO DO WITH YOU TROLL.

  99. [99] 
    michale wrote:

    I said openly yesterday I was going to troll you. I never denied that I'm trolling you.

    SO, you admit that you are a troll..

    OK, great.. We got that.. :D

    Why can't you answer my questions?

    You aren't asking any valid questions. By your own admission, you are trolling...

    The volume and content of my comments while you were away speak for themselves; I want to have in depth, thoughtful discussions.

    And yet, you admit you are a troll...

    If you want to have in depth and thoughtful discussions like me and countless others have had here, then quit with the trolling and the name calling and the personal attacks..

    It's really THAT simple...

    as NOTHING I SAID ON THIS THREAD HAD ANYTHING TO DO WITH YOU TROLL.

    I have already proved this lie to be a lie...

    You attacked me at 0939hrs PST and again and 0948hrs PST.. These are facts...

    If you want to have in depth and thoughtful discussions, then have them..

    If you want to troll, then you will have to expect that there are those who will oppose your trolling... You have been asked to stop by at LEAST a half dozen people already...

    Until you quit trolling, you have no moral or ethical leg to stand on in your endeavor to convince ANYONE that all you want is in depth and thoughtful discussions..

    I am here to stay, little buddy... You are only making things worse for yourself here....

  100. [100] 
    michale wrote:

    Trump would lose all legitimacy as president were he to admit that anything of this sort transpired. There are some deeds that cannot be acknowledged. Expecting Trump and his lieutenants to confess that his campaign or business associates were networking with the Kremlin or Russian intelligence is not realistic—especially after their months of denial. (Trump also for months refused to accept the US intelligence assessment that Russia was behind the hacking and leaking aimed at Democratic targets, and when he finally bent on this point, he downplayed Moscow's meddling in the election.) Trump cannot continue to present himself as the triumphant winner of a fair election if it turns out his own people were palling around with Moscow.

    If you replace TRUMP with OBAMA, the entire paragraph STILL works and is STILL valid.. :D

    Paula, I know this really REALLY bothers you, but President Trump is the freely, fairly and legitimate President of the United States. And the way his popularity is rising, he likely will be for the next 8 years....

    President Trump is YOUR president...

    These are the facts whether you want to admit them or not..

  101. [101] 
    neilm wrote:

    Brexit Update - The Stupidity Magnifies - Part 1

    A couple of news items just compounded the sheer stupidity and horror of 2016 across the pond (we are dealing with our own 2016 voting mistakes at the moment, so some of you may have missed these).

    #1 - The Big Promise

    One of the most compelling promises that the clowns like Nigel Farage and Boris Johnson made during the Brexit campaign was the 350M pounds/week fee to the EU was going to go to the NHS (single payer healthcare system much loved by the Brits) instead. They even had a double-decker red London bus painted up with their promise.

    So an opposition MP forced them to put their money where their mouth was and introduced a bill to increase the spending to the NHS appropriately.

    The Tory government (most of whom were big "Leave" supporters) promptly voted against the bill.

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-bill-nhs-amendment-350-mps-voted-against-conservative-labour-a7570591.html

  102. [102] 
    neilm wrote:

    Brexit Update - The Stupidity Magnifies - Part 2

    The Leave campaign never really expected to win (sound familiar) so they didn't do their homework on the obligations involved. It turns out that there are some very large unfunded pension plans for EU bureaucrats that the Brits will need to pay into before they leave. The kicker is the average pension for the bureaucrats involved is twice the median household income of the U.K.

    To say this isn't going down well is an understatement.

    This is what happens when you let the clown car near the levers of power.

    http://www.businessinsider.com/eu-wants-up-to-60-billion-exit-fee-in-brexit-negotiations-article-50-2016-11

  103. [103] 
    Paula wrote:

    You have been asked to stop by at LEAST a half dozen people already…

    Not by me.

    MHorton: troll Michale all you want! I'm not saying it will make him go away, but have at it and enjoy for as long as you feel like doing it! If he can do it there is no reason why others can't respond in kind.

  104. [104] 
    michale wrote:

    Not by me.

    Yer right, not by you.. Apparently, you don't mind when admitted trolls troll....

    You INVITE the troll to troll.....

    Which honestly makes you no better than the troll who trolls...

    You can invite all the trolls you want.. It won't change anything except the quality of this blog..

    But you don't care about that, do you...

  105. [105] 
    michale wrote:

    Neil,

    #1 - The Big Promise

    Do you REALLY want to talk about broken BREXIT promises?? :D

    Because the corpratist globalist fear-mongers don't have a moral leg to stand on with regards to that... :D

    I'm just sayin'.....

  106. [106] 
    neilm wrote:

    Paula [93]

    European governments know more about what is going on in the executive branch than any elected American official.

    The sad thing is that our government is putting its fingers in its ears and shouting la-la-la to ensure they can put Party ahead of Country.

    This might be a tough recess for the Republicans at their town halls.

  107. [107] 
    Paula wrote:

    [106] neilm: This might be a tough recess for the Republicans at their town halls.

    Yep! They're already running as fast as they can from them.

  108. [108] 
    Elizabeth Miller wrote:

    Mr. Horton,

    You may find that it is best to ignore the things that frustrate you, thus avoiding endlessly tapping out tedious comments.

    Let's try to keep the comments section about issues and not personalities.

  109. [109] 
    MHorton wrote:

    Liz, I haven't found it best.

    I either have to leave, or confront him.

    I'm tired of it. He gets to freely troll people, and it's time someone fought back.

    Nothing on this thread had anything to do with you until you commented on it.

    you insulted me before I said anything at 0900. You're a liar, and you know it.

    Michale is a lying, slandering troll.

  110. [110] 
    MHorton wrote:

    Edit *The second part of that last one was a response to Michale once again using my response to his comments to me on this thread to prove I attacked him first.

    When...... the logs make it clear that I didn't.

  111. [111] 
    MHorton wrote:

    The proof that I want in depth conversatoin is in the posts I made last night.

    When you shut up, I make good posts.

    If you wouldn't have mentioned me in posts today, I wouldn't have said anything.

    I didn't say ANYTHING on this thread until you insulted me.

    You're a troll.

    Also, who are these 'half dozen" who have asked me to stop? I can think of 2. And EVERYONE has asked you to stop before. Hell, the only reason I even started commenting the other day was because more than one person called you out on your trolling, and I spoke up to support them.

    You're a lair, a slanderer, and a troll.

  112. [112] 
    MHorton wrote:

    "If you want to troll, then you will have to expect that there are those who will oppose your trolling..."

    That... is literally what I said to you yesterday.

    Are you dumb, or do you just think we're that dumb, that nobody will notice that?

  113. [113] 
    MHorton wrote:

    "And she's dumb. You don't ACTUALLY SAY THE WORDS ALTERNATIVE FACTS.

    Yea, you just live by them, like the entirety of the Left Wingery.. :^/

    So I'm hoping we have another Teddy coming up, indignant of the lies and corruption, and building up both a righteous hatred for them and the political muscle he's going to need.

    Or you hope that President Trump dies or is assassinated... :D

    But I'd bet after he was pushed out, Trump didn't listen to him, as he didn't seem to listen much when Manafort was officially running things.

    Any facts to support that??

    Of course not.. Ya only yell and scream for facts from others..

    You NEVER have any facts to support your claims..

    [ Permalink ] [ Wednesday, February 15th, 2017 at 02:16 PST ]"

    You see how that is 7 hours before I called you a troll?

    I called you a troll this morning because you logged in after I went to bed, and began insulting me on a thread that I had said nothing about you, only put out opinions and thoughts.

    0200 is before 0900.

    You're a liar, a slanderer, and a troll.

  114. [114] 
    Elizabeth Miller wrote:

    Then it might be best if you leave, then. And, should we be calling you Ms. Horton? Just curious ...

  115. [115] 
    MHorton wrote:

    Why should I leave?

    He gets to insult people, why can't I?

  116. [116] 
    MHorton wrote:

    Like I said before, I will oppose the troll, by trolling, if I have to.

  117. [117] 
    MHorton wrote:

    I'm definitely not going to leave after he starts acting like I'm the one who started the trolling.

    He sits here and insults you people for years, and you take it.

    I point out truths about him for 2 days and I have to leave?

  118. [118] 
    Elizabeth Miller wrote:

    He gets to insult people, why can't I?

    Seriously?

    Yes, your comments sound like a girl ... and, a little girl at that. With all due apologies to little girls. :)

  119. [119] 
    MHorton wrote:

    Liz, why aren't you telling him to leave? Read this thread. There was not a single hateful or accusatory statement made until he showed up.

  120. [120] 
    Elizabeth Miller wrote:

    I don't have time to read non-serious comments.

  121. [121] 
    neilm wrote:

    Yes, your comments sound like a girl

    Don't do this. Watch this.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XjJQBjWYDTs

  122. [122] 
    neilm wrote:

    Today's girls are going to change our world, for the better.

    Go girls!

  123. [123] 
    Elizabeth Miller wrote:

    Neil, is that something you expect me to click on? :)

  124. [124] 
    Elizabeth Miller wrote:

    Today's girls are going to change our world, for the better.

    There are girls and then there are girls ...

    Let's just make a less than dangerous assumption and say that Ms. Horton is the former with little possibility of changing anything, okay?

  125. [125] 
    Elizabeth Miller wrote:

    By the way, Neil, please don't quote me out of context. I'm just sayin' ... :)

  126. [126] 
    Elizabeth Miller wrote:

    Neil,

    Maybe Ms. Horton can show us how to comment like a girl!

    Strangers things have already happened ...

  127. [127] 
    MHorton wrote:

    So you're calling me a girl? Is that supposed to be an insult?

    I mean, I'm a man, but it's not an insult to call me a girl.

    I don't get the point.

  128. [128] 
    MHorton wrote:

    So, you don't have time to non-serious comments, but you're going to try and insult me by calling me a girl over non-serious comments?

    You haven't explained how I am the problem here, when I posted thoughtful responses all night, until I was attacked.

    Explain how come one person gets to insult you for years, but me speaking out about it is over the line?

  129. [129] 
    michale wrote:

    When you shut up, I make good posts.

    And when you don't attack me, you won't get yer feelings hurt...

    Liz, I haven't found it best.

    I either have to leave, or confront him.

    I'm tired of it. He gets to freely troll people, and it's time someone fought back.

    Nothing on this thread had anything to do with you until you commented on it.

    And if you attack my friends, you DEFINITELY will piss me off and I will respond quite forcefully...

    You're a troll.

    Says the guy who is an ADMITTED troll...

    You see how that is

    Yes I do.. You made some claims.. With absolutely NO rancor other than a bit of sarcasm (and a whole lot nicer than you demand things of me) I asked you to back up your assertions and your guesses with facts..

    Next thing anyone knows, yer back to trolling me and attacking me...

    Here is some free advice from me to you..

    If you don't like having your "guesses" and your assertions challenged, yer probably better off not being here....

  130. [130] 
    michale wrote:

    Let's just make a less than dangerous assumption and say that Ms. Horton is the former with little possibility of changing anything, okay?

    heh...

  131. [131] 
    michale wrote:

    So, you don't have time to non-serious comments, but you're going to try and insult me by calling me a girl over non-serious comments?

    Why, exactly, is being called a girl, insulting??

    Is there something insulting about being a girl??

    "No wonder you're single"
    -Metatron, DOGMA

    :D

  132. [132] 
    MHorton wrote:

    My feelings aren't hurt.

    I didn't say anything to you on this thread until you insulted me.

    End of story. I will respond to insults by calling you a troll.

  133. [133] 
    MHorton wrote:

    Suppositions do not require facts. I laid out my reasoning, and there are no facts to be had, either for or against my supposition, beyond the ones I mentioned.

    I literally said being called a girl isn't insulting, but it was clear Liz was TRYING TO BE insulting.

    How did you miss the entire post before the one you responded to? You didn't. You chose to respond to the one, ignoring the other.

    Because you're a liar, a slanderer, and a troll.

  134. [134] 
    ListenWhenYouHear wrote:

    MHorton

    One thing about Manafort that nobody asks: how did he and Trump connect?

    Manafort had just been working for the Russian backed President of the Ukraine's campaign team prior to his being forced out of the country. Manafort was instrumental in getting a treaty allowing Russian oil pipelines to run through the Ukraine during his time there. Then the people forced the president to flee, which would have put the oil treaty in danger of falling apart. That's when Putin sent troops in to the Ukraine and took over the Crimean Port. It wasn't until all of this was playing out that Manafort started working for Trump.

    Is it just a random coincidence that the only input Trump's people were concerned with regarding the GOP's platform was to change the party's position on how to respond to Russian aggressions in the Ukraine? It went from calling on the U.S. to provide the Ukraine "lethal defensive weapons" to the more benign phrase "appropriate assistance."

    Fast forward to Exxon's CEO deciding that he wants a government salary and being named as Trump's pick for Secretary of State -- the position that will have the biggest influence on our country's decision as to whether to maintain sanctions against Russia. You remember those sanctions -- the one's that put a stop to Exxon's contract to start pumping oil out of Russia -- you know, the one worth over 3 trillion dollars??!! If you don't think that Putin personally awarding Tillerson with Russia's Order of Friendship medal in 2013, the highest honor bestowed on foreign citizens, had anything to do with his being Trump's choice for Sec. of State, I got some lovely beachfront property in Montana that you might be interested in

  135. [135] 
    michale wrote:

    MHorton,

    Allow me to give you some more (free) advice..

    YOU: YOU'RE AN ASSHOLE
    ME: You are acting like an asshole

    YOU: YOU'RE A LIAR
    ME: You are telling lies

    YOU: YOU'RE AN ARROGANT PRICK*
    ME: You are acting like an arrogant prick

    You see where I am going with this??

    You attack people..

    I attack messages and actions.. By and large, I attack the message, not the messenger.. I attack the comment, not the commenter.. I readily admit that I slip now and again... I make an extreme and sincere effort NOT to, but I am not perfect...

    Of course, that changes drastically once first blood is drawn. When I am personally attacked or any of my friends are personally attacked (as you have done) I respond in kind...

    So, it's YOUR choice how you want to spend your time here...

    *That is a true and valid accusation.. :D

    "Of course I'm arrogant!! I've EARNED it."
    -Q

    :D

  136. [136] 
    MHorton wrote:

    And you didn't "challenge" them, you attacked my character, by saying I "never have facts"

    Why don't you instead talk about why you disagree with what I said? You don't even disagree with what I said, probably, because there's nothing to suggest that Manafort has any influence over 45. And that was my supposition; that Manafort never had much direct influence over him, and that any payments or rental agreements were part of a payment package for Manafort negotiated when he signed on.

    Which all makes perfect sense; but I don't have access to his payment agreements, so there are no facts to be had.

    If you have reasons to disagree with this assessment, you should have responded with them.

    Instead, you demanded facts I never said or implied existed, and then said I "never" have facts.

    You wanted to start a fight, so here we are.

  137. [137] 
    MHorton wrote:

    I'm attacking you. And you attack people, whether you admit it or not.

    You're a troll. You admitted to being a troll. You laughed about making people mad on this website.

    You said you had a ton of fun trolling those old forums.

    I'm trolling YOU.

    But again, if you wanted to end it, why did you come on at 0215 and start attacking my character, when I hadn't said anything about you at all?

  138. [138] 
    MHorton wrote:

    All you had to do was not reply to me at all, or not be insulting when you did.

    But you couldn't do that.

    So you don't get to play the victim today.

  139. [139] 
    michale wrote:

    Suppositions do not require facts. I laid out my reasoning, and there are no facts to be had, either for or against my supposition, beyond the ones I mentioned.

    Ahhhhh So you want ME to provide FACTS for everything I say, but YOU don't have to provide ANY facts..

    I see...

    I'll have to disagree.. If you have no facts to support your suppositions, your guesses or the hairs standing on the back of your neck, the said supps, guesses and hairs are meaningless and will be regarded as such..

    I literally said being called a girl isn't insulting, but it was clear Liz was TRYING TO BE insulting.

    How did you miss the entire post before the one you responded to? You didn't. You chose to respond to the one, ignoring the other.

    So, first of all, you are in Liz's head and you know what her inner most thoughts are...

    Then you jump into MY head and know what MY inner most thoughts are...

    I can see why you are having problems here.. :D

    Because you're a liar, a slanderer, and a troll.

    See?? Up until this point, we were having a nice chat, a decent conversation with a true and meaningful exchange of thoughts and ideas..

    Then YOU had to go and spoil it by reverting to your Troll nature....

    You aren't going to last very long here if you attack anyone who disagrees with you or asks you to support your guesses and suppositions...

    I'm just sayin'.... :D

  140. [140] 
    MHorton wrote:

    When have I demanded for you to require facts for everything you say?

    Another lie.

    I'm not attacking anyone who disagrees with me. Again, I'm attacking YOU.

    And we weren't have a nice chat. There is no nice chat. You're a troll, and just because you turn it off to play nice for a little while doesn't hcange things. I've watched you for years.

    If you read the comments, by the way, I literally asked Liz why she would say that, and then said I didn't understand; but the ONLY WAY to interpret her claims were as insulting. How else could she have meant it?

    And, by the way, I laid out why I called you a liar and a troll in that last comment. Because you ignored a previous comment to purposefully miscontrue what I said.

    The only other possible option is that you're too dumb to read all the comments before responding.

    Which is it?

  141. [141] 
    michale wrote:

    And you didn't "challenge" them, you attacked my character, by saying I "never have facts"

    If you want to view that as an attack, that's yer prerogative..

    But it's EXACTLY what you said to me first.. So, you admit that you attack me..

    Personally I don't view it as an attack, but yer welcome to...

    Why don't you instead talk about why you disagree with what I said?

    Because I don't necessarily disagree with it.. I wanted to know how you came to that guess.. What your thought process was...

    If you came to that guess because you had a dream and in your dream your fairy godmother gave you the basis for that guess, then I would judge your guess accordingly..

    If you actually had FACTS to support your guess then I would view it in a DIFFERENT light..

    Let me give you an example..

    I guess that there are Klingon ships orbiting earth right now

    Now, someone would ask me, "What facts do you have to support this guess?" and I would respond:

    I read it on the Internet so it HAS to be true

    You see the point, my friend???

    If you don't want your statements challenged then you are DEFINITELY in the wrong place.. If you want just a dull and dreary Echo Chamber where the ONLY words you see are "YEP" and "DITTO" try HuffPoop... It's ALL about that...

    Again, just trying to be helpful here... :D

  142. [142] 
    MHorton wrote:

    @Listen; Manafort was put in contact with Trump via the RNC, because he has heavy ties to a bunch of them. He was seen as a "steady hand" after Lewdonowski (sp) hoping to get Trump on a more traditional campaign.

    And yes, the fact that the only change 45's campaign requested was loosening of language pertaining to Russia was clearly Manafort's influence; it was reported on as such at the time, if I recall.

    I don't get how anyone in the RNC would have anything to do with Manafort after his 2nd client was overthrown in a popular revolt, but from the reporting at the time, that's what I was led to believe.

  143. [143] 
    michale wrote:

    All you had to do was not reply to me at all, or not be insulting when you did.

    Sorry, my friend. By commenting on here, you are putting your thoughts out there and they WILL be challenged.. If you don't like it, don't comment..

    As far as "insulting"?? You need to develop a much thicker skin if you are going to make it here.. :D

    I have been doing this for going on 12 years right here in this very place...

    If you hope to last half that long, chill out and chin up... :D

    That's all for me.. It's time to spend time with my lovely wife....

    Toodles... :D

  144. [144] 
    MHorton wrote:

    "Any facts to support that??

    Of course not.. Ya only yell and scream for facts from others..

    You NEVER have any facts to support your claims.."

    That is you asking for my thought process?

    No, it's an attack on my character, identical to the one you just tried to use. You accused me of being a hypocrite; of demanding of you something I wasn't prepared to give.

    It's telling that you didn't even wait for me to answer; you answered the question for me, then attacked my answer.

    You do realize that you can use reasoning, not just "facts" to draw conclusions?

    "There's a Klingon ship orbiting Earth"

    "Why would you think that?"

    "Well, there are a number of circumstantial things that imply it"

    "Well, being as a Klingon ship orbiting Earth is incredibly unlikely, you would need some strong evidence."

    That's how that conversation goes.

    "I think it's going to rain tomorrow."

    "Why?"

    "Well, usually when the wind blows like this, and the clouds turn that color, it rains."

    "Huh, I guess we'll see."

    That's something more similar to the conversation I was having.

    I know you're not dumb, and that's why I know you're a troll.

    Because the only way you could miscontrue what I'm saying so badly is if it's on purpose, or if you're an idiot.

    And I don't think you're an idiot.

  145. [145] 
    MHorton wrote:

    Thicker skin? MY WHOLE POINT is that you shouldn't require a "thick skin" to have a civil conversation. The only reason people need a thick skin here is because you're allowed to troll and insult people freely.

    Tell you what, why don't you just stop commenting for a week, and we'll compare the comment sections from that week to a last week, and we'll look at the differences in tone and commentary.

    What do you say?

  146. [146] 
    MHorton wrote:

    "'All you had to do was not reply to me at all, or not be insulting when you did.'

    Sorry, my friend. By commenting on here, you are putting your thoughts out there and they WILL be challenged.. If you don't like it, don't comment.."

    You said you wanted the fight to stop. I said, if you wanted it to stop, all you had to do was not comment to me, or attack me when you did comment.

    "Sorry, my friend. By commenting on here, you are putting your thoughts out there and they WILL be challenged.. If you don't like it, don't comment..""

    That isn't an appropriate response to "If you wanted it to stop, all you had to do was not comment to me."

  147. [147] 
    Don Harris wrote:

    I suggest we change the name from Weigantia to Springerville.

  148. [148] 
    MHorton wrote:

    @Listen

    https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/what-makes-a-trump-story-stick/

    Interesting article by Nate; he literally talks about what I was saying about how all these Russian connections during the campaign were extensively covered, but people just didn't notice.

  149. [149] 
    Kick wrote:

    ListenWhenYouHear [134]

    One thing about Manafort that nobody asks: how did he and Trump connect?

    Going way back to the '70s when Trump was being sued by the United States for housing discrimination and represented by Roy Cohn, who from that time forward became Trump's mentor and the two of them connected at the hip, it was Roy Cohn who introduced Trump to Paul Manafort and Roger Stone, who at that time were also connected at the hip.

  150. [150] 
    MHorton wrote:

    @Kick OH MAN I can't believe I forgot about the Roger Stone - Manafort connection.

    There's so many links to so many questionable people it's hard to keep it all straight.

    And Stone has been deeply involved; I suspect he's the one feeding the "3 million illegals voted" narrative to 45. That whole "voter id" program he set up was super shady and questionably legal.

  151. [151] 
    michale wrote:

    Don,

    I suggest we change the name from Weigantia to Springerville.

    heh :D Yea, it does get weird around here..

    Which wouldn't happen if people would just get over the fact that I post here and quit trying to delve almost 20 years into my past.. I mean, jeeezus, what kind of sick twisted person does that??

  152. [152] 
    michale wrote:

    Horton,

    Thicker skin? MY WHOLE POINT is that you shouldn't require a "thick skin" to have a civil conversation.

    A "civil" conversation??

    About politics!? :D

    Shirley, you jest... :D

    Tell you what, why don't you just stop commenting for a week, and we'll compare the comment sections from that week to a last week, and we'll look at the differences in tone and commentary.

    I have done that on several occasions..

    I gave everyone a break during the Democrat Convention.. It was downright boring around here..

    One time, I was gone for several months.. Everyone welcomed me back, even my most strident opponents, people that made you look downright pleasant by comparison...

    And WHY did Weigantians welcome me back?? Well, you would have to ask them, but the fact is that this place, without someone to promote opposing view points, devolves into nothing but a "YEP"/"DITTO" echo chamber with virtually no disagreements to be found..

    What fun is that???

    Look, this can go one of two ways...

    "Oooooo Is one of them the Easy Way"
    "No..."
    "Oh......"

    -AGENTS OF SHIELD

    :D

    I am not going anywhere.. If my brand of political discussion causes you pain, then you have my sincerest apologies..

    But I comment how I comment and nothing you can do or say will change that..

    So, yer only choices are to filter me, ignore me, leave or suck it up...

    It's really THAT simple...

    Now you do have another option and that is to continue your unwarranted personal attacks and basically make this forum miserable...

    I sincerely hope you do not choose this road because you will not like where it leads you...

    The choice is yours, my friend..

    "Choose wisely"
    -Knight Of The Round Table, INDIANA JONES AND THE LAST CRUSADE

  153. [153] 
    michale wrote:

    But I comment how I comment and nothing you can do or say will change that..

    "I run my unit how I run my unit.. You want to investigate me, roll the dice and take your chances. I sit 300 yards away from 4000 Cubans who are trained to kill me, so don't think for one second that you can come down here, flash a badge, and make me nervous."
    -Colonel Nathan R Jessup, A FEW GOOD MEN

    :D

  154. [154] 
    nypoet22 wrote:

    Knight Of The Round Table, INDIANA JONES AND THE LAST CRUSADE

    i do believe you're mixing up your mythology. perhaps you were referring to the knights templar. the knights of the round table were hanging waaaaaay back in camelot, which we're told was somewhere significantly to the north of ancient israel.

    But I comment how I comment and nothing you can do or say will change that..

    that won't stop a few of us from making some very sincere suggestions - brevity being the soul of wit and all. when a weignoob gets it in his head that you're a right-wing gamorrean, remember that those creatures do exist in nature, and your brand of commentary can at times be tough to distinguish from theirs by the untrained eye.

    so be a bigger man, show some forbearance, and save the rest of us the eighty straight posts of junior high school flame-war.

    thanks in advance,

    JL

  155. [155] 
    michale wrote:

    i do believe you're mixing up your mythology. perhaps you were referring to the knights templar. the knights of the round table were hanging waaaaaay back in camelot, which we're told was somewhere significantly to the north of ancient israel.

    I go by what was in the movie. :D

    I do believe that the Knight guarding the Holy Grail was identified as a KOTRT.... I could be wrong, it's been a while since I watched it...

    But it WAS the finest of all the Indiana Jones movies :D

    that won't stop a few of us from making some very sincere suggestions

    And I welcome such sincere suggestions and might even listen to them.. :D

    Michale is a lying, slandering troll, who uses his money to purchase a place to troll people because he's been kicked out of every comment section an actual company who can't be bribed controls.

    But crap like that???

    Nu uh... Ain't gonna happen.. :D

    so be a bigger man, show some forbearance, and save the rest of us the eighty straight posts of junior high school flame-war.

    I tried that when Neil ask me to wear the big boy pants. Did it work?? Did anyone else step up and try talking this guy down??

    Nope.. So I had to step back into the fray...

    I am more than willing to let these rants go unanswered by me as long as they are answered by SOMEONE...

    But to let such obvious bullcarp go unchallenged???

    That's like me asking ya'all not to challenge ANY pro-President Trump I may make. :D

    I don't expect ya'all to do that and it's unfair to expect me to do that...

    Having said all that, we have a new commentary.. Let's see if this can avoid de-volving into a "junior high school flame war"...

    I've done my part to avoid it.. Let's see if others can do their part... If it starts up again, it won't be me who starts it.. I will show... "forbearance"... to any initial attacks, if it comes to that... I'll give ya'all a chance to deal with it...

    That is all I can promise..

    I have done my part by making nice with Altohone and, for the most part, ignoring JFC...

    How many times do *I* have to be the adult before someone sits up and says, "Hmmmmmm... Maybe Michale *ISN'T* the problem...."

    I'm just sayin'....

  156. [156] 
    michale wrote:

    when a weignoob gets it in his head that you're a right-wing gamorrean, remember that those creatures do exist in nature, and your brand of commentary can at times be tough to distinguish from theirs by the untrained eye.

    Fair enough..

    I will keep that in mind for future reference...

    Love the visual, by the by :D

  157. [157] 
    michale wrote:

    My forbearance is in play.... :D

    Balls in ya'alls court... :D

  158. [158] 
    michale wrote:

    It just occurred to me..

    I was taking apart an old model 50" plasma..... Did I ever mention how much I hate working on older plasmas??

    Anyways, it just hit me...

    You are President HW Bush.. I am Israel.. And Horton is Iraq...

    Bush had asked Israel to refrain from responding to Iraq missile attacks. Bush assured Israel that the US would handle Iraq and damage to Israel would be minimal..

    Israel acquiesced and a wholesale major decimation of the Iraqi people and culture and possibly the entire Middle East was averted...

    Now, what do you think would have happened if Bush hadn't followed thru and defended Israel???

    Israel would have unleashed a hell on earth the likes of which this planet has never seen...

    Interesting parallels, eh? :D

  159. [159] 
    nypoet22 wrote:

    noted.

  160. [160] 
    michale wrote:

    Damn, yer good Mr President!!! :D

  161. [161] 
    MHorton wrote:

    "I am not going anywhere.. If my brand of political discussion causes you pain, then you have my sincerest apologies..

    But I comment how I comment and nothing you can do or say will change that..

    So, yer only choices are to filter me, ignore me, leave or suck it up...

    You knwo what I can do? Keep calling you a lying, slandering troll, because that's what you are.

  162. [162] 
    MHorton wrote:

    I'm not imagining it.

    I proved in this thread that he's lying.

    He asked a question, answered it for me, then attacked the answer.

    THEN HE SAYS HE JUST WANTED TO UNDERSTAND MY THINKING?

    He's a liar.

  163. [163] 
    MHorton wrote:

    "How many times do *I* have to be the adult before someone sits up and says, "Hmmmmmm... Maybe Michale *ISN'T* the problem...."

    I'm just sayin'...."

    How many other people have had any problems with eachother here?

    YOU are the entire problem.

    YOU insult people

    YOU lie about people

    YOU accuse them of things

    YOU lie about what you said

    YOU ARE THE PROBLEM.

  164. [164] 
    michale wrote:

    THIS is exactly what we need, JL...

    A group effort..

    As long as this is done, I am content to hold my water and let the group deal with it....

    Thank you very much for beginning the trend...

  165. [165] 
    nypoet22 wrote:

    @MH,

    give it a rest already? michale has done a lot more for this site than just support it financially. He even wore a "Hillary is My Hero" t-shirt and sent in a photograph of himself wearing it when comey chose not to indict. yes, along with the fun and games we get exposure to righty talking points, and an occasional inability to notice or accept his own factual errors. if you think that makes michale a troll, you have the right to that opinion. but, to be frank, intentionally fighting fire with fire just burns the rest of us.

    JL

  166. [166] 
    MHorton wrote:

    I don't mind "righty talking points"

    I mind lies and insults.

    I mind taking what people say out of context and then using it to attack their character.

    What makes him a troll are things like outright lying, accusing people of having motivations they have never expressed, asking a question, answering it for me, and then attacking me over the answer.

    I'm a Republican; I disagree with quite a few things CW and the commentors here believe. I'm not opposed to different view points, or talking points.

    I'm opposed to outright lies and character assaults.

  167. [167] 
    MHorton wrote:

    And your "fire with fire" analogy is my whole point.

    You're complaining to me about fighting fire with fire; why don't you try and nip the original fire in the bud?

    I say there should be no fire; but if there's going to be a fire, it might as well be a big one.

  168. [168] 
    nypoet22 wrote:

    @MH,

    allow me to rephrase; you're fighting a zippo with a flamethrower. and because we don't respond to silliness with even more silliness, a full-fledged flame war becomes my fault? Liz's fault? CW's fault? everyone gets a certain amount of leeway from a community, and the more positives they contribute the more leeway they get. that's the reality - like it or don't.

    JL

  169. [169] 
    michale wrote:

    Kick

    Trying to keep the current commentary clean, so I'll post in this one...

    Wow... "threats or extortion." Seriously? I genuinely feel sorry for you, and that's what you decide to post? When did anyone either threaten or try to extort you? :)

    This kind of word twisting is illustrative of the problem. All I said was that you can stop worrying about being stalked because I wouldn't waste my time that way.

    No, you said PLENTY more...

    It would serve you well to keep in mind that a commenter on this board knows exactly who you are and can keep you honest when you decide to get all up on your high horse... I know you know what I'm talking about...

    That is a textbook definition of extortion..

    The mark of a troll and definitely a reason for a ban...

    Everyone in this forum knows already knows EXACTLY who I am.. I have no secrets. People here probably know more about me than they WANT to know.

    Yer threats of exposure hold no fear for me whatsoever. You can't best me in a debate so you have to research my life 20 years into the past to try and find dirt that you can hold over me and try to keep me silent..

    What kind of sick, twisted and pathetic lost soul does that??

    Well, we have our answer...

    If you keep up with the threats and extortion, I can guarantee you won't like where it ends...

  170. [170] 
    michale wrote:

    http://www.chrisweigant.com/2017/02/15/too-little-from-congress-too-much-from-trump/#comment-94706

    Sorry, Joshua.. I should have held my water for 2 more seconds....

  171. [171] 
    Kick wrote:

    michale [169] 

    Trying to keep the current commentary clean, so I'll post in this one...

    The mark of a troll and definitely a reason for a ban...

    You want me banned now, and you're right back at it with the personal attacks here? Well surprise... NOT surprised.

    Everyone in this forum knows already knows EXACTLY who I am.. I have no secrets. People here probably know more about me than they WANT to know.

    No, they don't.

    Yer threats of exposure hold no fear for me whatsoever.

    This post of yours threatening to have me banned is the evidence of that, right? If I had wanted to expose you, you'd have already been exposed months ago. You've had days to stop the personal attacks, yet it's you who insists on the personal attacks towards me, Horton, Paula, and posts that insult the entire group for not posting to suit you.

    You can't best me in a debate so you have to research my life 20 years into the past to try and find dirt that you can hold over me and try to keep me silent..

    What kind of sick, twisted and pathetic lost soul does that??

    "Best" you in "debate"? Okay, what you do is not exactly debate. You don't debate people. Me or someone/anyone else can post something to someone else, you hijack it, you call names and troll, put words in others' mouths they didn't say, lump them into categories/labels, and either demonize them or dismiss them... lather, rinse, repeat.

    Wherever did you get the idea that I wanted to silence you? Have I threatened to have you banned? You're actually the one around here who disrupts the flow of dialogue and silences debate.

    I'm not sure what part of what I posted in the following topic was at all unclear, but as I said, I would not waste my time to research you. I got friends in high places who did that for me months ago.

    Well, we have our answer...

    If you keep up with the threats and extortion, I can guarantee you won't like where it ends...

    Is that a threat? You want me banned now? LOL

    Please reread your handiwork you've posted over the subsequent topic, this topic, and the following topic, and just listen to yourself and do some soul searching. Who is the one hurling personal insults toward other posters and the group?

    Like Horton says, people on this forum have endured you for years, wondering and discussing for years whether or not you are a troll, and the only difference between me and them is that I saw your information posted and had some friends in high places do a little research for me to find out the answer. I really do have a lot of pity for you, and for that fact you had best be glad and let it go.

  172. [172] 
    nypoet22 wrote:

    ok, it read like a threat but it wasn't, and was a response to a flame war that is now over. let's all let it rest and move on. k?

  173. [173] 
    Kick wrote:

    JL [172]

    ok, it read like a threat but it wasn't, and was a response to a flame war that is now over. let's all let it rest and move on. k?

    I could not agree with you more. Done and done.

  174. [174] 
    michale wrote:

    ok, it read like a threat

    Yes it did. And irregardless of that threat, I will remain on my "high horse" whenever I deem necessary and probably a lot more now than I would have before the threat...

    and them is that I saw your information posted and had some friends in high places do a little research for me to find out the answer.

    Which is EXACTLY what stalkers and trolls do. Pay or get people to find out information about other people that kick their asses in debates and discussions...

    The fact is, you ain't got shit and we both know it.. If you had, you would have already released it...

    So, bite me, bitch... Release what you have or just shut the fuck up..

    NOW it's done and done...

  175. [175] 
    michale wrote:

    JL,

    You have my sincerest apologies.. You did a helluva job bringing me and MHorton together and I know you are disappointed in my response to Kick..

    But I'll be damned if I'll let some insecure little stalker twit try and extort and control me into "behaving"..

    Put another way... If Kick had demanded money from me or else she would release personal and private information instead of demanding behavioral change, she would be on her way to jail right now for extortion...

    The ONLY way to deal with people like that is to bitch slap them down hard and make clear in no uncertain terms that they are NOT in charge...

    Now that I have done so, NOW I am willing to let it go...

    Again, you have my sincerest apologies...

    I was going to do this in email, but I couldn't find your email address.. If you want to take it to email, I am sure you have mine...

  176. [176] 
    nypoet22 wrote:

    @michale,

    it was over and you responded. yup, i'm disappointed.

    just when i thought i was out... they pull me back in!
    ~ the godfather part 3

    JL

  177. [177] 
    Kick wrote:

    michale [174], [175]

    Well, you've got quite the imagination there, but as I've said to you on many occasions, please stop projecting your fantasy onto my reality. It's quite informative that you consider what you do on this board as "kick their asses," but do you seriously think that hijacking posts on a regular basis, trolling constructive comments with pointless antagonism, and disrupting the flow of dialogue between other posters actually constitutes political debate?

    Some of us are never going to be a worshiper of Benedict Donald [my term] and live happily deluded on the far-right fringe of "alternative facts," and none of your trumped up myths or authoritarian propaganda are going to change that fact. The majority of Americans are smart enough not to give Donald Trump too much credit because he'll file for bankruptcy and we'll go broke.

    The fact is, you ain't got shit and we both know it.. If you had, you would have already released it...

    Incorrect. I guess a little projection can go quite a long way, but you'd be wrong to assume that I'm just like you.

    The fact is, anyone claiming to "know" what I know is simply deluding themselves. As a matter of fact, very few people actually know what I will or will not do.

    It was ever so thoughtful of you to post illustrations of your brand of "debate" in your comment to me and your comment to JL... your twisting of words, use of fabrication, insults, innuendo, and expletives.

    So, bite me, bitch... Release what you have or just shut the fuck up..

    You seem to be under the misguided impression that I'd follow orders, and now you've gone and exposed the very worst of your ideological shortcomings. While yours is the fantasy of the gullible Trumpbot, writ large, full of populist rhetoric, class animus, turbocharged with allegiance, marching in lockstep to the fascist Cheeto, try to remember that this is still America, where freedom is earned, knowledge is power, and it takes a special kind of imbecile to believe that facts aren't facts when they don't fit his worldview.

    p.s. "He who represents himself has an fool for a client."

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