The Deplorable Basket Case
Hillary Clinton made a deplorable basket case this weekend. That is, she made the case that "half" of the supporters of Donald Trump belong in a "basket of deplorables." It just sounds funnier to say it the first way, that's all.
Kidding aside, though, while the language Clinton used is being criticized, the point she was making was worth a little political risk. She walked part of her comment back almost immediately, saying she was wrong to use the word "half" -- but not wrong to call some Trump supporters "deplorables." Which means she's definitely trying to accomplish some political goal by saying such a provocative thing. Indeed, she's used the basket metaphor more than once (she only said "half" once).
This is a risky tactic, to state the obvious. Clinton's language breaks two cardinal rules for politicians, in fact, which exist because the risk is so plain to see. First, there are two types of politicians in the world: those who split people into two groups, and those who don't. This is a snarky way of saying: "Don't use 'two types of people' metaphors on the campaign trail." It is simplistic to do so, first and foremost, but it also shows a certain "us and them" divisiveness that turns off many voters. Especially paired with a word like "irredeemable," which is rather pessimistic (another thing voters don't usually respond well to).
The second cardinal rule of politics Clinton is breaking by wandering down this particular path is: "Don't talk about your opponent's supporters, because it usually doesn't help you at all." There are two other prime examples of this which many have been pointing out this weekend, and which are worth quoting in full. The first came from Mitt Romney:
There are 47 percent of the people who will vote for the president no matter what. All right, there are 47 percent who are with him, who are dependent upon government, who believe that they are victims, who believe the government has a responsibility to care for them, who believe that they are entitled to health care, to food, to housing, to you name it. That that's an entitlement. And the government should give it to them. And they will vote for this president no matter what.... These are people who pay no income tax... my job is not to worry about those people. I'll never convince them they should take personal responsibility and care for their lives.
The second was uttered by Barack Obama on the 2008 campaign trail:
You go into some of these small towns in Pennsylvania, and like a lot of small towns in the Midwest, the jobs have been gone now for 25 years and nothing's replaced them. And they fell through the Clinton administration, and the Bush administration, and each successive administration has said that somehow these communities are going to regenerate and they have not. And it's not surprising then they get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations.
Both showed elitist disdain for a large portion of the country's voters. Obama overcame this comment and went on to win. Romney did not. Interestingly enough, Obama's quote could now be updated with "...and they also fell through the Obama administration." Even Obama didn't have any magic wand to wave to make the problem of disappearing manufacturing jobs go away, in other words. The other interesting thing about his quote is that Obama was describing people who are now most likely Trump voters. If you take out the "cling to guns or religion" part of that last sentence, it's a perfect description of Trump's entire campaign, in fact.
Even so, Hillary Clinton is risking a backlash by not only talking about her opponent's supporters, but by also dividing them into two "baskets" -- redeemable and irredeemable. The initial outcry from the right over her statements has been kind of laughable, since (after all) Donald Trump rose to power by "not being PC" and "telling it like it is." Clinton just did that, and now they're shaking at the knees? Please.
At heart, Clinton is entirely correct. Some of Donald Trump's supporters are deplorable. Clinton noun-ized their status into a new political term (that is also causing some merriment online): "The Deplorables." She apologized for saying "half" -- a mistake she won't make again -- but whatever the actual fraction, Trump has indeed energized the alt-right and anti-immigrant communities throughout the entire election cycle. Far from denouncing their support, Trump hired the head of Breitbart (an alt-right site) to run his campaign. Clinton has every right to call him out on this.
Whether doing so is a good political tactic still remains to be seen. Clinton's comment is part of her larger campaign strategy, which is to make Trump an absolutely unacceptable choice to the largest possible number of voters. Part of this means confronting reasonable and moderate Republican voters with the ugliness of a large part of the Republican base. Xenophobia isn't exactly a new thing, in other words -- Republicans have long used "dog whistle" language to court such voters, in fact. Trump is just doing so right out in the open, that's the only real difference. But a portion of the Republican electorate has, up until now, convinced itself that there simply aren't any bigots within their own party, and that their conservative policies are the real answer to all the racial problems which still exist. That's what they have believed for a long time, and Clinton is rubbing their face in the fact that a portion of the Republican base actually does believe some pretty odious things. This has been most shocking to the Establishment Republicans and the conservative punditocracy, two groups known for staying mostly within their Beltway and New York City circles and not getting out to flyover country much at all. These folks' attitudes, pre-Trump, might be summed up as: "Well, I've certainly never met any bigoted Republicans in the cocktail parties I go to!"
The problem is, there's a world outside this cocktail party circuit. And remember -- these were all the people who assured themselves over and over again that Donald Trump could not possibly win their party's nomination. It was unthinkable to them, right up until it actually happened.
What Clinton risks by talking about base Trump voters, however, is creating a backlash among the very voters she's supposed to be courting. She's trying to appeal to "redeemable" Trump supporters, but even using such language is rather off-putting. Clinton is an outsider to the Republican Party (obviously), and it's never pleasant to have an outsider point out shortcomings of an insular group. Change, if it is going to happen, must take place from within. The "redeemable Republicans" already know Trump is unacceptable. Most of them are pretty horrified by what Trump has exposed within their own party. But hearing it from the opposition doesn't help them in their struggle with the new reality.
Clinton is trying to convince moderate voters who have usually voted Republican that it is not just Trump, but the entire Republican Party that is now irredeemable. So far, this hasn't moved the needle all that much. Pollsters are surprised that there may be a lot more split-ticket voters this year than we've seen in a long time. Ticket-splitting was supposed to be a thing of the past, when voters would vote a straight party ticket but then choose the other party's presidential candidate at the top. If Hillary Clinton wins the White House, her coattails might not even be long enough to flip the Senate to Democratic control. This is what some polls are now saying, although there are enough close races that neither party is currently confident they'll hold the Senate next year.
There is another option for moderate Republicans this time around, too. They can vote a straight Republican ticket and then vote for Gary Johnson instead of Trump. A lot of people are now saying that's exactly what they intend to do on Election Day, although whether they do so or not remains to be seen. In most elections, third-party support crumbles by Election Day, and most of these voters wind up voting for one of the two major party's candidates. This year may be different, but nobody really knows.
Long-term, the problem Clinton identified with her basket metaphor is a big headache for Republicans. The same cocktail party crowd is now assuring themselves that "Trumpism" is a one-time thing, and will disappear immediately after the election, when the Republican Party returns to being mainstream and not so driven by conspiracy theories. I seriously doubt this is going to happen, personally. I think the Trump followers are going to be a pretty major faction within the Republican ranks long after the 2016 votes have been counted.
What Donald Trump has proven is that stoking the fears of Republican base voters works. Will other Republicans in the future reject this strategy? It's hard to see them doing so, or at least it is hard to see all of them doing so. And as Trump proved, it only takes one such candidate catching fire to wipe out all of the other GOP candidates in the race. That's a powerful argument for someone slightly less controversial (and with a tad more self-control) to follow the same path Trump took to the nomination.
Clinton is saying in no uncertain terms: "This is your Republican Party. Deal with it. Own it." By doing so, she hopes to entice Republican voters who can't stand Trump to vote for her instead. Clinton had to be the one to point it out because prominent Republicans are too scared to do so, for the most part. It's pretty hard for a politician to denounce a large group of their own voters, after all, because that leads to "getting primaried" and losing your job. Republicans have already had to deal with the Tea Party within their own ranks, and they will likely be dealing with the Trump-loving segment of their party's base for a long time to come as well.
Clinton broke two political rules of thumb with her basket analogy. Setting herself up as the arbiter of who is and who is not redeemable isn't exactly going to endear her to many Republican voters (even the redeemable ones). But she pretty much had to break the other rule of thumb to make her case. There are strains within the Republican Party that many Republicans inside the Beltway have long denied even existed. They have risen to the surface in this election more prominently than any time in the past few decades. They're pretty hard to ignore, in fact. The conventional "attack your opponent not his supporters" tactic is impossible to use when pointing out what the Republican Party itself has become in this election. Donald Trump certainly didn't create them -- they were around long before he decided to run (as Obama previously pointed out, immediately after the "guns and religion" phrase he used). Republican politicians are terrified of confronting bigotry in their own base, because then that very same base will refuse to re-elect them. Most of the Republicans who have denounced Trump's appeal to bigots are already out of politics (a whole lot of "former officeholders," in other words). The ones that are still in office are going to have to deal with the basket of deplorables within their ranks in one way or another. All Clinton did was point this out. And no matter whether Clinton pays a political price or reaps a political benefit, that basket is still going to exist after the election is over.
-- Chris Weigant
Cross-posted at The Huffington Post
Follow Chris on Twitter: @ChrisWeigant
Yep, yep, yes, sí, da, right and correctomundo!
Trump supporters: http://talkingpointsmemo.com/edblog/some-trumpers-aren-t-nice
Deplorable is far too nice a word.
She didn't insult ALL of Trump's supporters - only the racist, sexist, homophobic, xenophobic, and Islamophobic ones. They were never going to vote for her, anyway. Let the Trump campaign try to argue that racism, sexism, homophobia, xenophobia, and Islamophobia aren't deplorable. Let them try to argue that's not what they've been selling this whole time.
There are a lot of people who AREN'T racists, sexists, homophobes, xenophobes, or Islamophobes who still vote Republican because Reagan convinced them that conservatism is the answer to everything, and right now, they're trying to convince themselves that it's okay to vote for Trump because, whatever else he is, he's still a Republican businessman.
Maybe it's risky to point out that Trump's supporters include racists, sexists, homophobes, xenophobes, and Islamophobes...but it's something the rest need to hear.
And Clinton's apology for saying "half" was AWESOME.
Ann Coulter is a deplorable. That's probably who HilRod was talking about.
How many bigots hadn't already made up their minds to vote for Trump?
John: you did a funny little poem a few days back -- meant to say so :-)
[4] Yes, I think the D-man locked up the bigot-sector quite some time ago. Also the Spanish-Inquisition-wanna-be's, the witch-burners-in-a-former-lifers, the husbands-should-be-allowed-to-rape-their-unfortunate-wives-ers, the women-who-hate-other-women-ers, the "Christians"-in-name-onlyers, the gun-fetishists, the FOX News addicts, the next couple of mass-murderers and the like. Next to them is the low-information-but-knows-their-lives-suck-cohort. Finally, the they-can't-consciously-admit-their-party-has-gone-putrid-Republican-Partiers -- the people HRC just might secure some votes from. Who do they want to associate with? Deplorables, the terminally confused, or sane, responsible people? They can vote Dem, or stay home. Either is fine with me!
illary Clinton made a deplorable basket case this weekend. That is, she made the case that "half" of the supporters of Donald Trump belong in a "basket of deplorables." It just sounds funnier to say it the first way, that's all.
Hillary's near death experience was just too easy?? :D
There are two other prime examples of this which many have been pointing out this weekend, and which are worth quoting in full. The first came from Mitt Romney:
Exactly.. Which is what I said. There is no difference between Hillary bonehead statement and Romney's...
The initial outcry from the right over her statements has been kind of laughable, since (after all) Donald Trump rose to power by "not being PC" and "telling it like it is." Clinton just did that, and now they're shaking at the knees? Please.
Com'on CW.. Hillary didn't "tell it like it is"... She told it like SHE THINKS it is..
And, as usual, she is wrong...
Far from denouncing their support, Trump hired the head of Breitbart (an alt-right site) to run his campaign. Clinton has every right to call him out on this.
awww, carp.. Don't tell me you have bought into this "alt-right" crap?? :(
What ya'all don't seem to get is that Trump *ISN'T* a Republican...
And THAT is why he is so wildly popular...
And THAT is why he is going to win...
Michale
How many bigots hadn't already made up their minds to vote for Trump?
Matt, you DO realize that calling a group of people names makes you a bigot, right?? :D
Michale
So, basically, Hillary just called cops and veterans and firefighters and honest hard working civil servants... Hillary just called all those people and millions more "Deplorable"...
I honestly don't know what's more ..well.. deplorable....
That Hillary called those good and honest Americans hateful and hurtful names....
Or that ya'all are perfectly OK with that..
Michale
And what is so tragically sad is that, by attacking and denigrating Trump supporters as bigots, it's YA'ALL that is wallowing in bigotry...
Michale
There were two groups - the "deplorables" and those that are really just fed up with the establishment that has done nothing but lie to them for so long. This second group believes Trump is actually willing to do something to help them. Only those that fit under the description of what is considered "deplorable" should feel insulted.
Trump claims that Clinton insulted millions of his supporters -- which means Trump must consider some of his supporters to be part of the first, "deplorable", group & not part of the second group. Maybe Trump could point out which of his supporters he considers "deplorable" and therefore deserve an apology from Clinton?
From WashPost:
Here’s what she said that caused the uproar: “You know, to just be grossly generalistic, you could put half of Trump’s supporters into what I call the ‘basket of deplorables.’ Right? The racist, sexist, homophobic, xenophobic, Islamophobic — you name it. And unfortunately, there are people like that, and he has lifted them up.”
She went on to talk about others who support Trump, saying they are worthy of empathy and understanding. She described them as people who feel “that the government has let them down, the economy has let them down, nobody cares about them, nobody worries about what happens to their lives and their futures, and they’re desperate for change.”
So if you are feeling insulted, it means that you do not consider yourself in the second group, but identify with one or more of the characteristics that defines what she considers "deplorable".
So, basically, Hillary just called cops and veterans and firefighters and honest hard working civil servants... Hillary just called all those people and millions more "Deplorable"...
So you think that the police, veterans, firefighters and civil servants are all sexist, racist, xenophobic, Islamaphobic and/or homophobic, is that it?
So, basically, Hillary just called cops and veterans and firefighters and honest hard working civil servants... Hillary just called all those people and millions more "Deplorable"...
So you think that the police, veterans, firefighters and civil servants are all sexist, racist, xenophobic, Islamaphobic and/or homophobic, is that it?
So if you are feeling insulted, it means that you do not consider yourself in the second group, but identify with one or more of the characteristics that defines what she considers "deplorable".
And yet, when I say "ya'all" blaa blaa blaa, ONLY the Weigantians who say/do blaa blaa blaa blaa should feel insulted..
Right??
So you think that the police, veterans, firefighters and civil servants are all sexist, racist, xenophobic, Islamaphobic and/or homophobic, is that it?
No, but apparently ya'all and Hillary do think that the police, veterans, firefighters and civil servants who support Trump are all sexist, racist, xenophobic, Islamaphobic and/or homophobic...
And that makes ya'all the bigots here..
Michale
And yet, when I say "ya'all" blaa blaa blaa, ONLY the Weigantians who say/do blaa blaa blaa blaa should feel insulted..
Right??
In other words, I get slammed for painting ya'all with a broad brush...
But when Near Death Hillary paints with a broad brush, it's perfectly acceptable to you..
Hypocrisy much?? Much too much... :D
Michale
And that makes ya'all the bigots here..
"There can be no offense where none is taken."
-Sarek Of Vulcan
:D
Michale
Listen,
So if you are feeling insulted, it means that you do not consider yourself in the second group, but identify with one or more of the characteristics that defines what she considers "deplorable".
So, what you are saying is that the Left Wingery had absolutely NO REASON to be insulted unless they were part of that lazy-assed 47% that lived off the government dole..
NO REASON to be insulted at all..
Is THAT what you are saying, Listen???
Cue hysterical "Well... THAT'S different!!!"
Suuure it is.. :D
Michale
Ya'all can sputter indignantly all you want..
But like Neal with his racial slur, Hillary ADMITTED it was a bonehead thing to say by walking it back some...
Hillary's "deplorable" shtick is no different than Romney's 47% shtick...
But it's not going to matter much. Hillary is going to be forced out of the race due to her illness...
Michale
Basically the Left Wingery want to have it both ways..
They demonized Romney for labeling millions of Americans with a broad brush, but they want to give Hillary a pass for doing the exact same thing...
How is this not hypocrisy???
Answer: It IS hypocrisy...
Michale
The presidential election was over the moment the word “deplorable” made its run out of Hillary Clinton’s unguarded mouth. As the whole world now knows, Clinton told a Lesbian-Gay-Bisexual-Transgender fundraiser Sept. 10, “You know, to just be grossly generalistic, you could put half of Trump’s supporters into what I call the ‘basket of deplorables.’ Right? The racist, sexist, homophobic, xenophobic, Islamophobic — you name it. And unfortunately, there are people like that, and he has lifted them up.”
Hillary is road kill.
https://pjmedia.com/spengler/2016/09/12/deplorably-trump-is-going-to-win/
Between Hillary's 47% moment and her near death experience, if she actually stays in the race....???
Demcorats have already lost...
Michale
1. Trump continues to prove he is one of the deplorables, calling Senator Warren "Pocahontas" again.
2. Flynn (Trump surrogate) thinks China is party to the TPP (really!)
3. Trump claims he has no investments in U.S. stocks despite it being about the only thing he has disclosed about his finances
4. Trump still has no idea that we are laughing at his "secret plan for ISIS" - the equivalent to "I do so have a girlfriend, but she goes to another school and you wouldn't know her." (Thanks to Seth Meyers for that zinger.)
5. David Duke proved Clinton's "basket" point with a picture of him with the Trumps (https://twitter.com/DrDavidDuke/status/774804699644125184/photo/1?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw)
You just can't make this stuff up.
Forget being one of the "deplorables", I'd be more embarrassed to be one of the gullibles.
1. Trump continues to prove he is one of the deplorables, calling Senator Warren "Pocahontas" again.
Yer right... Trump should be calling her "Fauxcahontos"...
Jeeze.. If Trump is deplorable for calling Democrats names, then that makes YA'ALL deplorables as well...
Duuuhhhhhhh
Forget being one of the "deplorables", I'd be more embarrassed to be one of the gullibles.
Then you must be really REALLY embarrassed because you are as gullible as they come, Mr "Clinton Is In Perfect Health"...
You have been wrong at EVERY turn with regards to Trump.. What makes you think you have ANY credibility whatsoever???
Michale
I mean, com'on Neil... Let's face reality...
Ya'all's credibility on Trump predictions is WORSE than my SCOTUS predictions...
And THAT says a lot... :D
Michale
[21] neilm: I like "gullibles" as the shorthand for the other basket -- the deplorables and the gullibles. But need a third shorthand for the stubbornly loyal normal Republicans who have to choose between the tatters of party loyalty and fascism.
The "despicables", the "gullibles" and the "lifers" :)
Sorry, The "deplorables", the "gullibles" and the "lifers" :)
[26]: The "deplorables", the "gullibles" and the "lifers"
Perfect!
neilm [26] yep.
Maybe we need to add a 4th basket for the grifters who prey on the rest. So, Trump supporters fall into one of 4 baskets: deplorables, gullibles, lifers, and grifters.
Isn't it amazing how ya'all complain about the Right Wingers who are always name-calling...
Have ya'all listen'ed to yerselves recently??? :^/
Michale
I thought Trump was the grifter :)
If ya'all want to see bigotry, all you have to do is read your own comments here...
Michale
I thought Trump was the grifter :)
Nope.... Looks like John Kerry is the grifter...
http://dailycaller.com/2016/09/12/exclusive-john-kerrys-state-department-funneled-millions-to-his-daughters-nonprofit/
Demcorats are falling apart.. :D
Michale
[31] neilm: Trump is ONE of the grifters.
Trump has painted himself into a corner with his "ISIS plan".
Let's face it, if he isn't called out by the moderators on his "double secret probation" nonsense, Hillary has to pound him about it again and again.
Here are my top questions:
1. You have stated that you have a foolproof plan to beat ISIS in 30 days. Why do you think you are the only person to have thought of this plan, are you claiming to be smarter and better informed than our top West Point trained leaders?
2. You stated on September 4th (need to check the date) that you actually don't have a plan, so you were going to ask the Generals for a plan. Is that your top secret plan you won't tell us? Asking the Generals for their plan?
3. Why are you letting people die from ISIS terrorism when you could stop it now? Don't you think that if you briefed our top military confidentially on your plan today, they could implement it and ISIS would be extinguished before the election and you would get the credit. Not only would this save lives, but you would almost certainly improve your chances on November 8th? In fact, you would almost certainly win the election.
1. You have stated that you have a foolproof plan to beat ISIS in 30 days.
If Trump had actually said that, then you would have a point.
But he didn't, so you don't..
You epitomize EXACTLY what is wrong with the Left Wingery...
Ya'all are so blinded by hatred and bigotry, you CAN'T address facts..
You just make shit up...
Michale
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/billy-pitner-hangs-clinton-effigy-oregon-interstate
Trumpers.
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/billy-pitner-hangs-clinton-effigy-oregon-interstate
Trumpers.
Oh puuullleeeessseee
How many effigies if Trump has the Left Wingery mutilated and hung and burned etc etc etc...
You have absolutely NO MORAL OR ETHICAL foundation to point the finger at Trump supporters..
Your hypocrisy and bigotry is blatant and nauseating...
Michale
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/edblog/kentucky-gov-predicts-calls-for-bloodshed-if-hillary-wins
Trumpers.
http://www.dailykos.com/stories/2016/9/12/1569495/-Violence-Breaks-out-at-Trump-Rally-in-NC-Trump-does-not-condemn
Trumpers
I think I just threw up in my mouth a little...
Of course, you ignore all the assaults committed by Left Wingers on Trump supporters..
All the violence and destruction committed by (O)BLM scumbags and morons..
Like I said... You have absolutely NO moral or ethical foundation to point the finger at Trump supporters..
NONE... ZERO... ZILCH... NADA....
Michale
And it's all so pointless anyways.. Even Demcorats are planning for Hillary's exit from the campaign..
Your chosen one is a luser.. :D She got her ass handed to her at the CinC forum and now is going to have some lame Dr note to get out of the debates...
"Laa Hooo Hooo.... ZER....."
-Ace Ventura
Michale
C'mon Michale, these are YOUR people! Revel in it! This is what you want isn't it? It's what Trump wants -- he joked about the assault in NC. This is YOUR GUY. These are HIS people. So they are YOUR people.
No wonder you're throwing up.
C'mon Michale, these are YOUR people! Revel in it! This is what you want isn't it? It's what Trump wants -- he joked about the assault in NC. This is YOUR GUY. These are HIS people. So they are YOUR people.
https://img.washingtonpost.com/rf/image_606w/2010-2019/WashingtonPost/2016/06/03/Local-Enterprise/Images/AFP_BH0HZ.jpg
Just like those are YOUR people who are assaulting a Trump supporter..
Your problem is you ARE reveling in it..
If you want to address hatred and bigotry, look to your own cold heart...
Michale
he joked about the assault in NC.
And you IGNORE all the assaults committed by Left Wingers all over the country..
That makes you WORSE than Trump...
Michale
https://i.ytimg.com/vi/SVO1RhsWAvs/maxresdefault.jpg
Here's the handiwork of Left Wingers like you....
And you have the gall to point the finger at Trump!!??
How do you sleep at night??
Michale
They're "deplorables" so they deserve it, right???
Like I said.. If ya'all want to see the face of hatred and bigotry, just look in a mirror..
Michale
"Worse than" implies Trump is bad in some way…nice little Freudian slip there Mickey!
https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0226/7001/articles/VIDEO--Donald-Trump-Supporter_s-Hat-Stolen-And-Face-Bloodied-At-Costa-Mesa-Rally.jpg?v=1461917504
There is the handiwork of the "peaceful" and "tolerant" Left Wingers...
Michale
http://www.patdollard.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/trump_supporter_bloody.jpg
More "peace" and "tolerance" from Left Wingers....
Michale
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CkXP_m-W0AAMd0W.jpg
Another Trump supporter who is a victim of the Left's "tolerance"...
"I can do this all day..."
-Captain America
Captain Steve Rogers would be a Trump supporter....
Michale
Whattsa matter?? Don't want to play anymore??? :D
Taking your balls and going home??? :D
Michale
Michale:
You'll never find a clip of Hillary or Obama or Tim Kaine or Elizabeth Warren, etc. laughing at such acts of violence, encouraging such acts of violence, excusing such acts of violence. They won't be at rallies encouraging people to beat up protestors. That's what Trump does. That's what Republicans are trying to avoid having to comment upon (among other things). Dem governors don't talk about bloody responses to a lost election, or sedition.
Your leaders. Your co-Trumpers. How do you sleep at night?
https://i.ytimg.com/vi/Ctr-folOCqI/hqdefault.jpg
More "peace" and "tolerance" from the Left Wingery....
Are you getting the point yet???
You have NO MORAL FOUNDATION to point any fingers at Trump.. Not when you encourage this kind of violence against Trump and his supporters...
Michale
You'll never find a clip of Hillary or Obama or Tim Kaine or Elizabeth Warren, etc. laughing at such acts of violence, encouraging such acts of violence, excusing such acts of violence.
Oh yea??
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UtH7iv4ip1U
Like I said.. NO MORAL FOUNDATION...
Unless you condemn those acts of violence against Trump supporters without prompting, you are no better than you accuse Trump of being...
Michale
Ahh, you say I don't have any moral foundation to point fingers at Trump. Do you? You keep admitting, indirectly, that there are problems to be pointed out re: Trump. You just don't think I have the right to do it. Evidently YOU DO! Let's hear it! Let's hear your condemnations of David Duke, and Mosque Burners and White Supremacists and Seditionists! Or do you support them? Which is Michale?
Oh yea??
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UtH7iv4ip1U
Like I said.. NO MORAL FOUNDATION...
Wait!! I know!!
"Well.... that's different...."
Did I call it?? :D
Michale
A TV anchor started his broadcast Sunday with a startling statement.
“Good evening,” said WABC weekend anchor Joe Torres. “We begin with Hillary Clinton’s death.”
Torres didn’t correct himself, but the broadcast continued on to report Clinton’s health troubles at Sunday’s 9/11 memorial ceremony in New York. The Democratic presidential candidate was dehydrated standing outside on the hot day, her campaign said, and video taken of her leaving the site early showed her needing assistance to get into a van.
The station told TVSpy that the mistake was accidental.
http://www.mcclatchydc.com/news/nation-world/national/article101553692.html#storylink=cpy
A portend of things to come?? :D
Michale
Ahh, you say I don't have any moral foundation to point fingers at Trump. Do you? You keep admitting, indirectly, that there are problems to be pointed out re: Trump. You just don't think I have the right to do it. Evidently YOU DO! Let's hear it! Let's hear your condemnations of David Duke, and Mosque Burners and White Supremacists and Seditionists! Or do you support them? Which is Michale?
I'll be happy to talk about me.. It's one of my favorite topics.. :D
AFTER you come clean and condemn all the violence against Trump supporters. AND the violence against Trump himself...
Michale
Can't do it, can you Michale?
http://www.latimes.com/politics/
Hillary's support is plummeting.....
Michale
I win!
I would also like to hear your thoughts on Hillary's collapse and how she is on bed rest.... After arguing that she is in "perfect health"....
Michale
I win!
Thank you, Charlie Sheen.... :D
Michale
Hillary Clinton to Jimmy Kimmel...
"We're gonna need a bigger pickle jar"
:D
Michale
What ya'all don't seem to comprehend is that saying "Trump supporters are bigots" is NO DIFFERENT than saying "Black people are criminals"
So, when ya'all attack Trump supporters you are, in fact, doing EXACTLY what you accuse Trump supporters of doing..
Ya'all are NO DIFFERENT than Trump supporters....
I am actually quite surprised this logic escapes ya'all....
Michale
911 Ghouliani is pretty deplorable.
Like I said... Nothing but hatred... :^/
Michale
. . . from Donald Trump.
The Orange One's latest big orange lie: "The United States government should not spy on its own citizens. That will not happen in a Trump administration."
Because that whole muslim surveillance thing of his isn't spying. It's surveillance. He's not changing his position. He's changing the words he's using.
Granted, he probably wouldn't spy on terrists like Cliven Bundy.
. . . from Donald Trump.
No, from you.. And most everyone else here...
That's sad...
Michale
No, from you and Trump.
Boo hoo.
No, from you and Trump.
Your comments prove otherwise...
Like I said.. You want to see hatred and bigotry??
Just look in a mirror, son....
Michale
Nope. You're it, chatbot. I can just look at your spam.
Nope. You're it, chatbot.
Yea, like Paula, you're "winning" right?? :D
No one else here espouses hatred and bigotry like ya'all do...
You can deny it all you want, but the facts are clear. All you do is name-call and personal attacks..
Michale
And, if I am a chatbot, what does that say for the moron who engages the chatbot in conversation?? :D
Michale
Face it, JFC... Your BFF Hillary is at death's door.. Your Demcorats are imploding...
And all you have is hatred and bigotry...
Michale
Nope. We have your lies and hatred and bigotry on display ad nauseum.
Nope. We have your lies and hatred and bigotry on display ad nauseum.
Yea, that's your claim.. Completely unsubstantiated.. Like EVERYTHING you spew...
And I am not the only one who says that.... :D
Michale
"When are you people going to learn!?? We am NEVER outgunned.."
-Fred Ward, OFF LIMITS
Yer outclassed, Chicken Boy... :D
Michale
Everything you say is a lie, troll.
. . . that you cut and pasted because you're not very bright.
Love this!
http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/byron-york-the-brilliance-of-hillary-clintons-deplorables/article/2601632?custom_click=rss#.V9ftoTw_hsI.twitter
Could there be a clunkier phrase than "basket of deplorables"? Hillary Clinton's assertion that half — or maybe something less than half — of Donald Trump's supporters are "racist, sexist, homophobic, xenophobic, Islamophobic, you name it" struck a lot of observers as not just an odd turn of phrase but politically unwise. You attack your opponent, the idea was, but you don't attack the voters.
But now, a few days later, the brilliance of Clinton's remark is becoming clearer. Yes, she got a few liberal commentators to take her side and defend the substance of it. But the far bigger benefit is that in the wake of her comment, some media figures decided to devise a "deplorables" quiz for Trump supporters. Is Person X deplorable? How about Person Y? The effect was to pressure Trump supporters not only to agree with Clinton's larger point but with her precise terminology.
Katrina Pierson is kinda deplorable.
http://www.cleveland.com/politics/index.ssf/2016/09/donald_trump_fans_have_been_se.html
Here a third generation American of Mexican heritage writes about the nasty emails/tweets etc. he's been getting since Trump started running.
Maybe you don't believe Donald Trump is a bigot. Or a racist. Or a xenophobe. But the Republican nominee for president certainly has won the support of people who are.
Forget for a moment Hillary Clinton's remark the other day that "half" of Trump's supporters belong to a "basket of deplorables." The Democrat later expressed regret for the broad generalization but stuck to her assertion that Trump offers a safe haven for the hateful.
There is no perfect way to quantify how many Trump fans fit the description.
The point is, these voters are out there. I know because I hear from them.
Katrina Pierson is contemptible, as well as deplorable!
Paula;
I meant to ask you if anyone has showed up at Trump HQ?
If anyone is interested in the polls, The trend says Clinton + 4-5%. It's steady and hasn't changed in a couple of weeks...
I don't know how busy it is, but the Trump Scampaign's deplorable office here is funded 100% by a local insurance salesman. It's more like a fanboy clubhouse.
deplorable office. I like that.
Paula [84]
That was the point I was trying to make in 10 & 11. Make Trump point out which of his supporters are deplorable.
As for Hillary's health, pneumonia is temporary. What I find more concerning is the speech pattern of Trump. It's one thing to hear Trump speak the words, his charisma overshadows the message usually. But when you see how his answers are just a bubbling mess of words, it raises serious questions about his mental health.
Here's part of the transcript from Matt Lauer asking Trump about his plan for defeating ISIS that he claims to already have.
LAUER: But you have your own plan?
TRUMP: I have a plan. But I want to be — I don’t want to — look. I have a very substantial chance of winning. Make America great again. We’re going to make America great again. I have a substantial chance of winning. If I win, I don’t want to broadcast to the enemy exactly what my plan is.
LAUER: But you’re going to…
TRUMP: And let me tell you, if I like maybe a combination of my plan and the generals’ plan, or the generals’ plan, if I like their plan, Matt, I’m not going to call you up and say, “Matt, we have a great plan.” This is what Obama does. “We’re going to leave Iraq on a certain day.”
It's like a robot short circuiting and spitting out random bullet points that don't answer the question asked.
It was a real word salad...
Hmmm. New York Attorney General is opening an inquiry into the Trump Foundation.
Should be interesting.
[88] apophis: We were at the hardware store in the same plaza as the Trump/Pence Akron location yesterday, and no, it's still just sitting there. Two cars were parked nearby such that they may have been associated with that space versus any of the others and I've seen them there before. They probably belong to the poor schmucks tasked with running the place. It's very encouraging!
[91] Listen: Right! Yes! Man, when I watched that Town Hall and Trump was babbling about the ISIS plan I just could not conceive how any sentient being could possibly take that man seriously. It was just a bubble of incoherence. Several people that have dealt with him over the years have come out recently and said he doesn't have any ability to concentrate. That seems to be a longterm problem, not something recent. Maybe its getting worse.
[93] Kick: yep!
[35] [36] neilm and Michale wrote:
1. You have stated that you have a foolproof plan to beat ISIS in 30 days.
If Trump had actually said that, then you would have a point.
But he didn't, so you don't..
You epitomize EXACTLY what is wrong with the Left Wingery...
Ya'all are so blinded by hatred and bigotry, you CAN'T address facts..
You just make shit up...
I think the entire group would agree that just because someone is ignorant regarding the facts, it doesn't make the facts any less factual. Trump loves the uneducated (he said it himself), and I think that is because they are, in fact, much more inclined to be ignorant of the facts and more likely to fall for the big con he's perpetrating that Trump somehow has all this great knowledge about warfare and that he knows more than the generals do about ISIS, believe him. When people are ignorant of facts, they are much more inclined to believe the shit he spews out of his mouth like verbal diarrhea.
“If I run, and if I win, I don’t want the enemy to know what I’m doing. I don’t want the enemy to know what I’m doing. Unfortunately, I’ll probably have to tell at some point, but there is a method of defeating them quickly and effectively and having total victory.... If I run, and if I win, I don’t want the enemy to know what I’m going to do. All I can tell you is that it is a foolproof way of winning, and I’m not talking about what some people would say, but it is a foolproof way of winning the war with ISIS, and it will be absolutely, 100 percent, they’ll at a minimum come to the table, and actually they’ll be defeated very quickly, very, very quickly.”
SCORE
neilm: 1
troll: 0
So Trump didn't say "30 days," but he did say "very quickly, very, very quickly." Since the definition of "quickly" is "rapidly, with little or no delay, promptly, then neilm is absolutely correct here.
Ignorance of FACTS is EXACTLY what is wrong with the Right Wingery...
Ya'all are so blinded by hatred and bigotry, you don't even know what the facts are.
JFC
Everything you say is a lie, troll.
Of course, you can PROVE that, right??
Of course you can't..
At least I have coherence..
The consensus around here is you have none.. :D
Michale
Paula,
Here a third generation American of Mexican heritage writes about the nasty emails/tweets etc. he's been getting since Trump started running.
What part of YOU HAVE NO MORAL FOUNDATION do you not understand???
Michale
I think the entire group would agree that just because someone is ignorant regarding the facts, it doesn't make the facts any less factual.
An entire group that thinks Hillary is a good person and would make a good president is an entire group that has no credibility..
So Trump didn't say "30 days," but he did say "very quickly, very, very quickly." Since the definition of "quickly" is "rapidly, with little or no delay, promptly, then neilm is absolutely correct here.
He didn't even say that..
And Neal wasn't correct because Neal said "30 days" and you concede that Trump DIDN'T say "30 days"..
So, you are BOTH wrong..
Yer not very good at this, are you? :D
"Don't cross brains with Spock. He'll cut you to pieces every time.."
-Ensign Hikaru Sulu
Michale
That was the point I was trying to make in 10 & 11. Make Trump point out which of his supporters are deplorable.
How moronic..
It was HILLARY who made the accusation..
Let HER point them out...
Duh...
Michale
When people are ignorant of facts, they are much more inclined to believe the shit he spews out of his mouth like verbal diarrhea.
How is that any different than ya'all who believe any shit that spews out of a Clinton mouth??
"I did not have sex with that woman"
"I used a private email server for convenience"
"I never sent or received classified email thru my private server"
"I am the most transparent person in the world"
etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc
Seems to me that you just admitted that ya'all are "ignorant of the facts".. Your words...
Like I said....
"Don't cross brains with Spock. He'll cut you to pieces every time.."
-Ensign Hikaru Sulu
:D
Michale
[99] Michale,
An entire group that thinks Hillary is a good person and would make a good president is an entire group that has no credibility..
What does that say for the moron who engages the group in conversation?? :D (borrowed from you, thanks) Trolling, insulting posters personally, hijacking threads and disrupting the flow of dialogue because somehow the moron thinks he provides an insight that would be missing if he were not around. :D $$$$$
So, basically, Michale just called cops and veterans and firefighters and honest hard working civil servants... Michale just called all those people and millions more "Incredible"...
I honestly don't know what's more ..well.. incredible....
He didn't even say that..
Yes, he did. Trump said all that... WORD. FOR. WORD. There's a video of him saying all that and more at this link. Follow along with the bouncing ball.
http://www.thewrap.com/donald-trump-has-foolproof-plan-to-defeat-isis-but-he-wont-share-it/
“If I run, and if I win, I don’t want the enemy to know what I’m doing. I don’t want the enemy to know what I’m doing. Unfortunately, I’ll probably have to tell at some point, but there is a method of defeating them quickly and effectively and having total victory.... If I run, and if I win, I don’t want the enemy to know what I’m going to do. All I can tell you is that it is a foolproof way of winning, and I’m not talking about what some people would say, but it is a foolproof way of winning the war with ISIS, and it will be absolutely, 100 percent, they’ll at a minimum come to the table, and actually they’ll be defeated very quickly, very, very quickly.”
So Trump said he has a "foolproof" way of defeating ISIS very, very quickly [<--- makes 30 days sound long] but said he wouldn't reveal the plan. He also said that "unfortunately" he will probably have to tell at some point. Trump said all this in mid 2015. In the meantime, think of all the many honest, hard-working Americans that have died while Trump kept his "magic plan" a secret.
YOU said if Trump said it that Neil would "have a point." So Neil "has a point" and you can man up and concede the point to Neil or you're simply conceding to the group that you really don't have any insight to offer because you refuse to accept FACTS, even when they are spoon fed to you like a toddler. :D
Truth hurts but...
So many "politically correct" fools in our country. We have to all get back to work and stop wasting time and energy on nonsense!
What does that say for the moron who engages the group in conversation?? :D
A moron that is eternally hopeful.. :D
So, basically, Michale just called cops and veterans and firefighters and honest hard working civil servants... Michale just called all those people and millions more "Incredible"...
Ahhhhh the old "I KNOW YOU ARE BUT WHAT AM I??" tactic..
About par for the course what I have expected from you.. You definitely are no Michy.. :D
YOU said if Trump said it that Neil would "have a point."
But neal said "30 days" so he doesn't have a point because he was wrong...
"You are a simple little creature, aren't you?"
-Bartleby, DOGMA
:D
Michale
Yes, he did. Trump said all that... WORD. FOR. WORD. There's a video of him saying all that and more at this link. Follow along with the bouncing ball.
May!!??? You had to go back to MAY to find that BS... :D
Apparently, it hurts you that you are not up on current events..
Trump has stated that, within 30 days, he will have a plan to deal with The Daesch...
And whatever plan it is, it's INFINITELY better than Odumbo's and Death's Door Hillary's plan..
THEIR plan is just to watch Americans die at the hands of The Daesch....
Like I said, son..
"Don't cross brains with Spock. He'll cut you to pieces every time.."
-Ensign Hikaru Sulu
:D
Michale
See Kick, here's yer problem. Here is ALL of ya'all's problem.
Ya'all are so close-minded, you can't conceive that yer wrong..
So you do nothing but spout off easily disprovable garbage like "hillary is in perfect health" or "trump's campaign is imploding"...
And then, when ya'all are proved wrong, wrong, EPIC-LY wrong, ya'all run away....
Michale
[101] Michale,
How is that any different than ya'all who believe any shit that spews out of a Clinton mouth??
Who here said that? No one but you. You again just made another straw man argument in order to change the subject. #Shocker!
Seems to me that you just admitted that ya'all are "ignorant of the facts".. Your words...
Changing the subject to something no one said and then posting a BS admission to something no one said... and all in the same comment frame... is pathetic and weak.
I said YOU were ignorant of the facts regarding what Trump said and that Neil was correct, and I then posted the quote from Trump. If you can't accept actual FACTS when they are presented and you are willfully ignorant when FACTS are spoon fed to you and then you offer nothing but deflection and straw man arguments, then you're simply deluding yourself if you really believe that you offer some kind of valuable insight $$$$$
The viable option then becomes ignoring your posts... and the pattern repeats over and over.
Cutting through all the nonsense and being totally politically incorrect, but FACTS are FACTS. :)
Who here said that?
Uh.. EVERYONE.. Either by omission or commission...
The viable option then becomes ignoring your posts... and the pattern repeats over and over.
Yea, yer doing a bang up job of that, eh!?? :D
It's like Neil when he says he ignores me but then constantly talks about me.. :D
Cutting through all the nonsense and being totally politically incorrect, but FACTS are FACTS. :)
Yea... They are...
Let me know when you have any... :D
Michale
Let me know when you have any... :D
Apparently, I am going to be waiting a while.. :D
Michale
.... and waiting.... :D
Michale
Congrats, Kick....
You've just been pwned... :D
Michale
Another one bites the dust... And another one gone and another one gone... Another one bites the dust...
-Queen
:D
Michale
PWNAGE :D
Michale
Hey CW
As someone who views the banksters, neocon and neoliberal warmongers, and the corrupt corporatists of all flavors who are supporting Hillary as deplorable, the narrow focus on Trump supporters amounts to an ethical failure of monumental proportions.
Apparently, defrauding Americans and committing war crimes is no big deal... but xenophobia is just beyond the pale.
You establishment types are baffling.
And, no, that's not a compliment.
A