Trump Backs Down
What would you think if an arsonist set fire to your house, waited until the flames were causing major damage, and then rushed in and put (most of) the fire out? Would you thank the arsonist for saving your house, or would you be angry with him for starting the fire in the first place? Would you look around your home, now drenched in water and with some spots still smoldering and burning, and be thankful? Probably not.
This is where we now find ourselves in Donald Trump's self-inflicted trade war with China. The day after April Fool's Day, Trump made his "Liberation Day" announcement, where he slapped massive tariffs on almost every country in the world (except Russia, for some reason). Within a week, he pulled back to a blanket 10 percent worldwide tariff and "paused" the higher rates for individual countries for 90 days, because the markets had reacted so drastically to his scheme. We're approaching the halfway mark of that 90-day period, and only one "kinda/sorta" trade deal has been announced, with Britain (it's not a fully-fleshed-out trade deal at all, merely a sort of aspirational blueprint).
China wasn't a part of this pause, however. Trump amped up the tariff on China to a breathtaking 145 percent, while China retaliated with its own 125 percent tariff on U.S. goods. This has had the same effect as a trade embargo, since nobody wants to buy goods with that steep an additional tax on them. The halt in trade is working its way down the supply chain to the U.S., as companies here cancel orders and container ships stop carrying goods to U.S. ports. Prices have risen and shortages are appearing for American consumers.
Something had to give. So this weekend, Trump blinked. China, all along, has been demanding that the U.S. remove the new tariffs before any dialog or negotiations could even begin between the two countries. This is exactly what Trump agreed to this weekend -- after swearing for weeks that he would never do such a thing. There is no "deal" with China at all, but now the two countries will sit down and try to work one out in the next 90 days. China got what it wanted, in other words, and the U.S. got nothing.
Trump left a 30 percent tariff in place, which is still very high. All goods from China will now have a tax of roughly one-third their value levied on them. But this is just "very high" as opposed to "insanely, suicidally high," so it counts as progress. China will keep a 10 percent tariff on U.S. goods for the time being.
You may be thinking that none of this makes much sense, and you'd be right about that. The entire disruption of the world's economy has been performative all along -- Trump wanted to be seen as the biggest bully in the world, and he did achieve that much. But we could have gotten to exactly the same point without all the disruption and chaos, which would have been a much easier route to take.
If Trump had announced, the day after April Fool's Day, that he was instituting a worldwide 10 percent tariff, and that every country had 90 days to cut new deals with the U.S. or they would face crippling additional tariffs (calculated by a bizarre metric that Trump loves, but which makes no economic sense whatsoever), then exactly the same thing would have happened. Countries would have begun negotiations with the U.S. and worked to figure out exactly what would assuage Trump enough to scrap the idea of slapping massive tariffs on their goods. China would have entered into negotiations as well, and the American (and world) economy would have avoided the past month of absolute chaos. We'd be exactly where we are now, but without all the disruptions in the economy that have happened in the past month.
It's still unclear, in all of this, exactly what Trump is trying to accomplish. Will the 10 percent worldwide tariff just be a new baseline for world trade? It certainly seems that way, since the only "deal" announced so far (with Britain) still leaves the 10 percent rate in place. Trump backed off his insane tariffs on China this weekend, but he left an additional 10 percent in place (on top of a 20 percent tariff that predated "Liberation Day").
Trump has sent conflicting messages about the goal of this trade war from the very start. At times, he seems like he is in love with the concept of high tariffs, which (according to him) would bring in so much money (paid for as a tax by U.S. consumers) that he could eliminate income taxes for anyone making less than $200,000 (spoiler alert: this is not realistic and will not happen). These new taxes would also (according to him) make corporations change their strategy and build factories here at home rather than abroad. But then Trump contradicts this whole story by admitting that the high tariffs are nothing more than leverage to force other countries to cut better trade deals with the U.S. If they're just leverage to be bargained away, then none of the rest of it will ever happen (the money coming in or the factories coming home).
A baseline tariff of 10 percent on the world (or 30 percent, on China) would raise prices for American consumers, but they wouldn't shoot through the roof. The tax would be a lot more than Americans paid previously (the rate on Britain will essentially triple the taxes previously paid by Americans for British goods), but it wouldn't completely price foreign producers out of the American market.
It would, however, be a drag on the American economy. It will probably lead to higher inflation, although precisely how much higher is not known yet. It will probably lead to higher prices on all sorts of things -- even stuff made here in America that uses foreign raw materials (like a cup of coffee, for instance).
The markets reacted favorably to the announcement of Trump backing down on the insanely-high China tariff. A sense of stability seems to be emerging from the chaos. American businesses can price in a 10 percent worldwide tariff rate (30 percent on China) and make future plans accordingly. If Trump uses the 10 percent rate as a baseline for the rest of his term, then plans can be made and prices adjusted to take the new factor in. What the markets really hate is uncertainty -- not knowing from day to day or week to week what Trump is going to do next to upset the apple cart of world trade. This is what Trump has finally realized, it appears -- that there are bad consequences to his erratic behavior that will have real-world impacts on the American economy, and the only way to avoid it is to back down in advance.
We'll see how this all plays out. As we approach first the 90-day deadline with the rest of the world and then (a month later) the 90-day deadline with China, what trade deals will be announced? Will Trump make good on his threat to hike the tariffs on any country without a deal by that point, or will he merely extend the "pause" period? Time will tell.
One thing that probably won't happen is Trump "solving" a "problem" that doesn't really exist in the first place. Trump measures everything to do with trade on the metric of the trade gap with other countries. He wants to see it disappear -- so that we sell other countries exactly as much as they sell us. But this is probably impossible for many countries, so the only way to "solve" it would be for all trade to halt with them (in which case, zero would equal zero, so there would be no trade gap).
While I am certainly relieved to see Trump back down with China, I can't give him any sort of credit for doing so. If he hadn't been so petulant and irrational in the first place, then we could have been at exactly the point we are now a month ago. All the economic chaos never would have happened -- or it would have done so at a much lower intensity.
We won't be able to see what the impacts of all of this will be for months to come. The threat of the tariffs caused many large U.S. corporations to massively stock up on goods right before the tariffs were announced, which caused a big spike in a lot of economic indicators. That spike may be followed by a huge drop downwards in April, as those same corporations just stopped buying anything from China. Eventually, this rollercoaster will (assumably) level off to a new normal, and we'll be able to see what the long-term impacts of it all will truly be. But again, this won't become clear for months to come. And we may even be at the start of another big spike, since corporations have no guarantee that a deal will be reached in that 90-day period, so they may go back to stocking up again in anticipation of things getting worse in the near future.
Trump lit a huge fire in the world's economy. It did some major damage. This weekend, he rushed in to put out the fire that he personally started. He does not deserve praise for doing so, since he caused the problem in the first place. The only thing to be thankful for in all of this is that Trump backed down now, rather than allowing things to get much, much worse. He finally realized that China was not some dinky little country he could push around. China stood up to Trump and forced him to the bargaining table. If this hadn't happened for another month or more, the American economy would have taken a much bigger hit. So that's the only thing to be thankful for -- that Trump blinked now rather than later.
-- Chris Weigant
Follow Chris on Twitter: @ChrisWeigant
Would you look around your home, now drenched in water and with some spots still smoldering and burning, and be thankful?
Not while the thug is threatening to restart the fire.
What would you think if an arsonist set fire to your house, waited until the flames were causing major damage, and then rushed in and put (most of) the fire out?
Depends.
Would you thank the arsonist for saving your house, or would you be angry with him for starting the fire in the first place?
If you possessed at least a few bumping brain cells, you would obviously be at least a smidge perturbed.
If you were a MAGA cult minion, you would put on a display of imbecilic sycophantic toadying knee-bending bootlicking and ass kissing like nobody has ever seen before... but not before you removed the arsonist's diaper.
Chris your smartphone version of this site won’t let me load up the reader function. Also, it’s signing me out regularly when I have checked remember me and it’s back to telling me that I’m trying to send my comment to an unsecured site. Thought you’d like to know.
Yawn.
I agree. Trump's ridiculous tariff "policy" was self-destructive and made no sense except performatively - him showing off his power and bloviating self-image as a world changer.
But all the analysis - that nothing good could come of 145% tariffs, and 125% retaliatory tariffs, that the reasons for the tariffs were contradictory (tariffs that are designed to start negotiations for better trade terms cannot by definition be tariffs that are meant to encourage US industries to start multi-year programs to resituate their operations in the US), that uncertainty leads to paralysis and inflation, etc. - all that has been said before, and on this site.
We are not incapable - we remember what was written and analyzed on this issue just last week.
CW,
Since there are no cites in this commentary (Something that, apparently, really hysterically gets Bashi in a tizzy), I don't know where you are getting this information from...
But the NY SLIMES and BLOOMBERG are painting a COMPLETELY different picture..
Looks like China folded and PRESIDENT Trump AND Americans win again!!! :D
PRESIDENT Trump’s awesome tariff strategy forced China to blink when he secured a landmark trade deal that levels the playing field for American workers.
Starting with a 10% tariff on Chinese imports on February 1, 2025, PRESIDENT Trump escalated to a 145% tariff by April 8, citing unfair trade practices, IP thefts and fentanyl concerns.
China retaliated with 125% tariffs, but the huge decimation on China's economy (factory activity at its worst since December 2023 as shown in BLOOMBERG) forced Beijing to the negotiating table.
On May 12, 2025, a 90-day deal slashed U.S. tariffs to 30% and China’s to 10%, with China exempting $40 billion in U.S. goods, including pharmaceuticals. These facts are per NY SLIMES.
This historic agreement, announced after Geneva talks, commits China to curb fentanyl precursors and buy more U.S. goods, addressing PRESIDENT Trump’s trade deficit concerns.
The deal retains pre-April 2025 tariffs, ensuring a baseline 10% tariff to protect domestic production, as outlined in a White House fact sheet.
PRESIDENT Trump’s pressure on China and separate deals with over 75 other countries, isolated China and devastated China's economy
PRESIDENT Trump's awesome tariff strategy delivered a huge win for America’s economy and Americans...
This historic deal PROVED that PRESIDENT Trump's AMERICA FIRST approach works and works quite well..
Sources for the above facts:
NY SLIMES
BLOOMBERG NEWS
Russ,
If half of the ICE agents who patrolled the border for illegal crossings were transferred to rounding up those already living in America, then the recorded number of unlawful crossings would be less, which would not necessarily mean that fewer crossings were occurring. If fewer people are patrolling for illegal crossings, it is reasonable to expect fewer people to be caught illegally crossing. We only know how many are caught crossing the border illegally; we do not know how many successfully cross without being caught.
You are a simple simple creature, eh?
You DO realize that ICE is a completely DIFFERENT law enforcement agency than US BORDER PATROL, right??
:eyeroll:
That they could have 5000 ICE agents throughout the country arresting ILLEGAL IMMIGRANT CRIMINAL scumbags and THAT wouldn't effect the US BORDER PATROL whatsoever...
You DO realize that, right???
:eyeroll:
JL
Widmer Josneyder Agelviz Sanguino has no criminal record, and had no deportation hearing.
Not factually accurate..
Sanguino had his immigration administration hearing under a Biden immigration official..
That is ALL the due process an illegal immigrant criminal is afforded...
you can't just redefine what due process is off the cuff, it's determined by literally centuries of precedent.
Yer absolutely correct... *I* can't just define what due process is..
The SCOTUS defined what due process is for an ILLEGAL IMMIGRANT CRIMINAL..
And THAT due process for an illegal immigrant criminal is NOTHING but an administrative hearing..
THAT us what the SCOTUS has established..
I even cited the Court Cases that stated it..
As for your list of names..
Give me the particulars of each name as to why you mistakenly believe they were not allowed due process for an ILLEGAL IMMIGRANT CRIMINAL..
the rest are just regular people with no record worth mentioning.
So, they DID have a record.. They WERE criminals...
AND they were ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS..
So, why do you care if they are deported??
I mean, if you want to take care of them, YOU pony up the money to pay for their shit..
Why do you think the American taxpayers should foot the bill??
JL,
Further, your list comes from CBS....
I need RELIABLE news sources... Not Democrat propaganda...
Further, CBS just list those as DEPORTED. Doesn't give ANY facts of ANY reasons WHY they were deported..
So, your claim that they were deported with "due process" is factually NOT accurate..
Com'on, JL... I expect better from you... :^/
Apologies, Russ... that comment came out a bit harsher than I intended.
But facts are facts. US Border Patrol and ICE are two distinct and separate LEO agencies...
Staffing on one has absolutely no impact on the other agency..
CW,
PLEASE deport the TDS chatbot troll. Enough is enough. It just wants to play stupid obnoxious games and it is obsessed with its hate for non-white people and importing that hate to columns that are not even remotely connected to that subject because it can't bear being ignored.
There is no upside to allowing this cretin to run amok on your blog.
JFC,
"Amazing. Everything you said just now was wrong."
-Luke Skywalker
JFC,
I am also constrained to point out that your comment also had nothing to do with this commentary.
So something about stones and glass houses comes to mind.
Add my voice to the red card faction. WTF is the point of letting this guy crap on Weigantia?
What is the point of letting you crap on America???
What is the point of letting you crap on America???
i know this was in response to caddy's comment, which i disagree with. however, i'd argue that it's Don Gill, mELakON and you who are "crapping on america," and everything it stands for.
JL
further, there's no need to double-post. i responded regarding immigration on friday's thread where the post belongs.
Besides caddy. If you just ignore me I'll go away so just ignore me.
NY SLIMES
BLOOMBERG NEWS
Doubtful they said anything of the sort...
But you realize if they are "democrat water carriers" if I link to them but gods truth if you use them, it just makes you raging hypocrite, right?
Further, your list comes from CBS....
I need RELIABLE news sources... Not Democrat propaganda...
Lets see that list of reliable news sources? You seem to go off your own list all the time. Does that make most of what you spew unreliable?
i'd argue that it's Don Gill, mELakON
BBBBBWWWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Apologies JL... But the idea that PRESIDENT Trump is Professor John Gill!!???
Well, that's just laugh out loud hilarious!! :D
and you who are "crapping on america," and everything it stands for.
That's because you are part of a minority group that totally and utterly got their asses handed to them in 2024...
WHY do you think that happened??
Because ya'all's idea of "crapping on America" is actually FIXING all the things that woke progressive Democrats totally fraked up...
Take ILLEGAL IMMIGRANT CRIMINALS for example...
Under YOUR idea of "great" ILLEGAL IMMIGRANT CRIMINALS raped and murdered Americans by the thousands..
Under PRESIDENT Trump, American citizens are being HELPED and PROTECTED by PRESIDENT Trump's deportation of ILLEGAL IMMIGRANT CRIMINALS...
Not a SINGLE innocent American citizen has been harmed or inconvenienced by PRESIDENT Trump's deportation of ILLEGAL IMMIGRANT CRIMINALS....
With the tariffs, yea there is some minor initial pain.. But the mid-term to long-term benefits for America and Americans will be PHENOMENAL!!!
So, no matter HOW you want to slice it, America is in AWESOME shape..
And, considering how badly the Basement Biden/Headboard Harris junta frak'ed things up!??
It's nothing short of AMAZING how awesome PRESIDENT Trump and his administration has done..
Gas is cheaper.. Groceries are cheaper.. Eggs are cheaper..
And ILLEGAL IMMIGRANT CRIMINALS are being thrown out of the country by the tens of thousands!!
Only hysterical Trump/America hating woke progressive Democrats think America is being crapped on..
EVERY Patriotic American just LOVES what PRESIDENT Trump is doing and is VERY happy with the way things are going, even with the short term pain of PRESIDENT Trump's tariff strategy...
"It's a great day to be an American, eh gentlemen!?"
-Will Smith, MEN IN BLACK III
:D
Doubtful they said anything of the sort...
Of course you doubt it.. Yer part of the same Trump/America hating minority group that totally and utterly got their asses handed to them in 2024...
Do you have ANY facts that supports your ideologically based doubts??
No??
Of course not.. :eyeroll:
Of course you doubt it.. Yer part of the same Trump/America hating minority group that totally and utterly got their asses handed to them in 2024...
Admission of defeat? You seem to bring up this old chestnut when ever you have nothing to contradict...
Do you have ANY facts that supports your ideologically based doubts??
Post links to the articles and I'll point them out...
Admission of defeat? You seem to bring up this old chestnut when ever you have nothing to contradict...
Yer exactly right, Bash.. You have given me NOTHING to contradict...
As far as that "old chestnut"...???
Until such time as you and your fellow woke progressive Democrats take that long sincere look in the mirror??
That "old chestnut" is 100% relevant to your woke progressive Democrats..
Post links to the articles and I'll point them out
OK...
http://www.bloomberg.com
and
NYSLIMES.com
I look forward to you having even a SMIDGEN of a fact.. :D
[18] It's not a raging hypocrite. It's a malignant troll playing troll games* and flooding this site with AI generated sewerage.
* this includes pretending that CW is bound by the never enforced rules that he gives the troll to follow.
Why are you afraid of posting the specific articles? Would it demonstrate your lies too easily?
https://www.nytimes.com/2025/05/12/business/economy/trump-trade-china-tariffs.html
Basically says Trump blinked:
The tariffs ultimately proved too painful to American businesses for Mr. Trump to sustain. Within weeks, Trump officials were saying that the tariffs the president had chosen to impose on one of America’s largest trading partners were unsustainable, and that they were angling to reduce them.
We got a lobster a while back...
We named him BLUE SHIRT GUY
Apparently, we should have named her Blue Shirt Gal.......
Ooooops :^/
We named HIM (or HER) FreeGuy... :D
JFC,
Why do you keep insisting on posting comments that have NOTHING to do with the commentary???
Hmmmmm???
You are doing the EXACT same thing you accuse me of doing..
Why is that???
Bashi,
It's not fear...
I am simply not allowing you to be lazy and insisting that you do your own fraking research...
For the record, the article you cited was not the source for my comment..
Try again...
I am simply not allowing you to be lazy and insisting that you do your own fraking research...
And by "lazy" you mean read the link and find it conflicts your point 2/3 down...Definitely fear on your part.
For the record, the article you cited was not the source for my comment..
Close enough. You can prove me wrong at any point. Until then, you are both wrong and chicken...
John From Censornati-
"Troll" is a catchall term and I think you misinterpret his motivations. It's been long thought he wants his own blog but realizes no one would ever read it. Here he has a captive audience. Ignoring him is likely to just have more long posts and fewer short ones. He either has to be banned by Chris or have his side lose to point he goes off and licks his wounds for a while...
Bash,
Close enough.
Yea, that's what ya'all said about the 2024 election..
And ya'all got yer asses handed to you...
You STILL haven't addressed that fact, eh?? :D
Aww, can't contradict so you have to fall back on your gloat lie. Yawn...
Yes, you haven't given me any facts to contradict so I explain the FACTS about Democrats getting their asses handed to them..
Bawk bawk bawk
@m,
as CW has mentioned, you're playing a game that nobody else is playing:
intentionally obscuring the sources where your claims come from, if indeed there are any, does nothing to support your point of view. it's just one more annoying attempt to "win" one of your participation points, i.e. "being a jerk" - which also does not help me make the case for you to continue to be permitted to post here.
JL
JL,
as CW has mentioned, you're playing a game that nobody else is playing:
And yet, judging from ALL the responses I get, you people ARE playing the game..
I mean, ya'all whine and complain about my post count.. But 80% of my comments come from responding to YOUR comments..
So, the solution is, logically, quite simple..
If ya'all quit responding, my comment count goes down..
It's not rocket science..
intentionally obscuring the sources where your claims come from
Something ya'all SPECIFICALLY REQUESTED I do....
it's just one more annoying attempt to "win" one of your participation points, i.e. "being a jerk" - which also does not help me make the case for you to continue to be permitted to post here.
One man's "jerk" is another man's intellectual....
You don't want to play the game??
Quit playing..
No one is forcing ya'all to play...
I comment how I comment.. And only words from CW or Liz will change that..
So, ya'all are just wasting bandwidth when you whine and cry you don't like the way I play the game..
You don't like it??
QUIT PLAYING....
DUH.... It's not rocket science, JL...
okay, then. see ya.
@CW,
i'm concerned that your attempt to give michale one last chance isn't working. I really want the old michale to come back, but maybe as with all things Trump-related, his 2020 claim that you had changed was really an unconscious admission that HE has changed.
in that vein, I refer you back to my prior suggestion of holding all his posts and curating only the best, until and unless the fever finally breaks.
JL
[29]
"Troll" is a catchall term that appropriately applies to Felcher and I think I have not misinterpreted its motivations. It's needy.
I have not asked anyone to ignore it although I am mystified that anyone wants to play troll games as if they are something other than troll games. I've asked CW for an end to it. Thousands of "I win, you lose" kindergarten posts are no better than endless putrid AI hate posts. Smoking crater achieved either way.
Who needs comment threads overwhelmed with endless, boring cat and mouse games about plagiarized or intentionally misrepresented source material? Or the R word? It's a given that the troll is a barely literate liar and bigot.
The troll blocker idea is not the answer. It would require me to also block BashiBazouk to screen out the troll's games and I'd rather not.
okay, then. see ya.
"Hasta Lasagna, don't get any on ya.."
-Emilio Estevez, MISSION IMPOSSIBLE
in that vein, I refer you back to my prior suggestion of holding all his posts and curating only the best, until and unless the fever finally breaks.
You DO realize that the goal is to make LESS work for CW, not more..
The problem here is ya'all changed the definition (as ya'all woke progressive Democrats are wont to do) of 'jerk' to 'whatever Michale comments that we don't like.'
If CW tells me I am being a 'jerk' according to HIS definition, then me and him will work out what needs to be worked out..
He can do that here publicly or respond to the email I sent him..
YOU people don't get a say in how I comment..... That privilege is reserved for CW and Liz and ONLY CW and Liz...
What part of that is unclear to you???
JFC,
You continue to post comments that have nothing to do with the commentary..
Please desist..
:D
CW,
If you ARE following this comment thread, I would ask that you read my comments for yourself and make your OWN determination..
It's been proven beyond ANY doubt that I could no more get a fair shake with the Weigantian riff-raff (which, VERY sadly, includes JL now) then PRESIDENT Trump could get a fair shake in a Manhattan court room..
Hilarious. Quickly moving from gloat lies to playing the victim. At least the cycle is speeding up...
JL,
You obviously don't understand the concept of a debate...
Basically, you want me to provide you help in defeating MY own argument..
That is NOT how a debate works..
I make comments and state facts and YOUR job is to refute my comments and facts with facts of your own..
Basically, ya'all want me to do YOUR job for you...
Ya'all want me to make a relevant comment and then write for ya'all the rebuttal of said relevant comment..
Frak that..
If you people want to refute my comments, then do your OWN frakin' research and refute my comments..
Don't ask me to help ya'all because ya'all are unable or too lazy to do the work...
:eyeroll:
Translation: I want to lie with impunity and providing back up would seriously jeopardize that...
That is NOT how a debate works..
Translation: I want to lie with impunity and providing back up would seriously jeopardize that...
If I am lying, it's up to YOU to PROVE I am lying..
And you have to do that WITHOUT my help!!
Why is this so difficult of a concept for you woke progressive Democrats to understand??
Are you saying you CAN'T prove I am lying unless I help you!??
Is THAT what you are saying???
If THAT's the case, yer in more trouble then even I believed!!!
:eyeroll:
So, basically, ya'all are claiming you can’t counter my points unless I spoon-feed you the ability to do so...
I mean, com'on people!!
That’s a pretty pathetic excuse for failing.
If I am lying, it's up to YOU to PROVE I am lying..
By posting every single NYT article having to do with tariffs in hope that I get the right one, for example?
That is NOT how a debate works..
Either you can back up what you are saying or you can't. If you can't you are not debating but pontificating...
Either you can back up what you are saying or you can't. If you can't you are not debating but pontificating...
“If you're explaining, you're losing.”
-Saint Ronald Reagan
Now we'll add a corollary to that...
"If you need MY help to refute my OWN points, then yer pathetic"
-Michale
Yawn.
I accept your concession, Bash... :D
And Michale wins another participation award...
"Participation Trophies" are a woke progressive Democrat
creation...
Since you have no logical or rational response to #48 and you are, obviously tired and need a nap, you lose the depate..
Thank you for playing, Bash... :D
You see, JL??
They can't HELP but play the game...
Just like they can't HELP but lose...
EVERY TIME... :D
fishing for a gold star to stick on your participation award?
Nope...
Just enjoying that you continue to play the game.. :D
I wasn't aware that my declaring victory matters so much to ya'all and drives ya'all so crazy..... :D
I mean, seriously, people..
Are ya'all THAT insecure in your positions that MY declaring victory enrages ya'all so???
"HA!!! I win!!!!"
-Michale
"AARRRGGGGGGHHHHHHHH!!!!!! MICHALE MUST BE BANNED!!!!! HE DECLARES VICTORY ALL THE TIME!!!! ARRRRGGGGHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!"
-Weigantians
First ya'all whine and cry that I won't help ya'all refute my own arguments!!
And THEN you want to BAN me simply because I proclaim that I am factually accurate and ya'all are wrong.. :D
How far you people have sunk, eh?
Jeesus, what a bunch of snowflakes!!
:eyeroll:
Michale
6
You are a simple simple creature, eh?
Russ actually made a valid point, but rather than consider what he said, you're obviously just here to troll commenters with your repetitive hateful garbage. I cannot fathom why you are allowed to continue your tired monotonous brand of bullshit.
You DO realize that ICE is a completely DIFFERENT law enforcement agency than US BORDER PATROL, right??
You DO realize that you're being a jerk, right? Something you have been repeatedly warned NOT to do, right? You DO realize that there are ICE agents that work at the border in Enforcement and Removal Operations (ERO), right?
That they could have 5000 ICE agents throughout the country arresting ILLEGAL IMMIGRANT CRIMINAL scumbags and THAT wouldn't effect the US BORDER PATROL whatsoever...
Generally incorrect. ICE agents enforce customs and immigration laws both at and near the border as well as in the interior of the country. Obviously, those ICE agents that actually do work at the border alongside USBP are directly going to have an affect (not "effect") there.
You are and remain the single largest source of misinformation in this comments section.
Kick,
You DO realize that you're being a jerk, right? Something you have been repeatedly warned NOT to do, right?
Yes.. I realize that YOU think I am being a jerk...
But YOUR definition of "jerk" is simply someone that PROVES you wrong..
Ergo, YOUR opinion is completely and utterly meaningless to the objective reality of the here and now..
Do you comprehend that??
YOUR opinion doesn't matter a single wit...
Do you understand that objective reality???
The ONLY opinion that matters here is CW's...
And I'll accept whatever HIS opinion is..
Do you got that??
Or do I need to use smaller words??
:eyeroll:
But YOUR definition of "jerk" is simply someone that PROVES you wrong..
Or, in this case, proves one of your buddies wrong...
As I just did with Russ....
^^^ EDIT [57] ^^^
Obviously, those ICE agents that actually do work at the border alongside USBP are going to affect (not "effect") the USBP.
The idea that BORDER PATROL staffing is suffering because of ICE raids is completely and utterly ridiculous...
So, please, spare us the drama...
Claims that ICE raids in the US are somehow draining Border Patrol staffing at the border are NOTHING but pure nonsense.
ICE and Border Patrol are separate agencies under the Department of Homeland Security, with distinct roles. ICE handles interior enforcement, while Border Patrol secures the border.
THAT IS FACT... Not an opinion (see ICE’s own Wikipedia page).
The idea that ICE raids yank agents from the border is baseless hysterical fearmongering and complete and utter bullshit...
Border Patrol boasts 19,500 agents as of 2024 (DHS report), a number bolstered by the PRESIDENT Trump administration’s border security obsession.
That’s more than enough to flex for rare interior missions without breaking a sweat.
ICE and CBP together employ 88,000 people and their budgets don’t bleed into each other.
So, please stop clutching your pearls..
ICE raids aren’t “affecting” Border Patrol staffing in any way whatsoever...
The facts shred this hysterical bullshit to bits.
Ya'all will note that MY comment had CITES to PROVE my facts..
Kick's comment had ZERO cites..
SO, by Bashi's OWN RULES, Kick's comment is NOTHING but kaa-kaa...
And THIS is why ya'all are so hysterical to BAN me..
Because I am kicking ya'all's ass up one side of Weigantia and down the other side of Weigantia..
A true legend in your own mind...
And that just bugs you hysterically to no end.. :D
Russ,
You are completely and utter WRONG with your claims..
Accept your defeat graciously and move on...
Switch "bugs" to "amuse" and that would be closer to the truth...
Michale
9
Apologies, Russ... that comment came out a bit harsher than I intended.
Yes, you're being a jerk.
But facts are facts.
Yes, but your misinformation isn't "facts."
US Border Patrol and ICE are two distinct and separate LEO agencies...
Russ never made the claim they weren't. You put words in his mouth (as per your usual modus operandi) and rather than consider his point you acted like a jerk. Be that as it may and still, those agencies work together at and near the border, and if you don't understand how the actions of one of the agencies affects the other, that's beyond sad.
Staffing on one has absolutely no impact on the other agency..
Incorrect, particularly regarding those ICE agents that work at and near the border.
Michale
11
Opinions are opinions and as such aren't "wrong," and in the entire galaxy and galaxies far far away, you are the farthest thing from Luke Skywalker that I've ever encountered.
MtnCaddy
13
Add my voice to the red card faction.
So added.
WTF is the point of letting this guy crap on Weigantia?
Great question.
}}}}Staffing on one has absolutely no impact on the other agency..{{{{
Incorrect, particularly regarding those ICE agents that work at and near the border.
Factually not accurate...
I did a TDY with Border Patrol when I lived in San Diego.. I know from whence I speak...
ICE agents do not work on the Border at the line stopping ILLEGAL IMMIGRANT CRIMINALS from crossing.
That responsibility falls to U.S. Border Patrol, a distinct agency under the Department of Homeland Security (DHS).
ICE focuses on interior enforcement, targeting individuals already inside the U.S. who are here illegally. Apprehending, detaining, and deporting them from the US
According to the ICE website, their mission is to “protect America from cross-border crime and illegal immigration that threaten national security and public safety” (ICE.gov).
Meanwhile, Border Patrol’s mission is explicitly border-focused: “detect and prevent the illegal entry of individuals into the United States” (CBP.gov).
Though ICE may occasionally support Border Patrol, such as in a 2019 operation in Kern County, California, where Border Patrol assisted ICE 300 miles inland, these joint efforts are rare and not ICE’s primary role. Nor does it affect BORDER agent staffing..
A 2020 Migration Policy Institute report clarifies: “ICE’s primary mission is to enforce immigration laws within the United States, not to patrol the border” (MPI, 2020).
ICE’s core function remains interior, not border-line, enforcement.
No matter HOW you want to spin it, Kick.. You and Russ are WRONG..
And if PROVING ya'all are WRONG as WRONG can be is being a jerk???
Well, I guess I proved ya'all WRONG... :D
Ya'all are worse then children!!!
Ya'all simply CAN'T handle being PROVEN wrong!!!
Michale
14
What is the point of letting you crap on America???
Your taxes are helping to pay for his medical care during his entire lifetime (and mine too for that matter), and we thank you for that and nothing else.
nypoet22
15
however, i'd argue that it's Don Gill, mELakON and you who are "crapping on america," and everything it stands for.
All that and a slice of pie!
however, i'd argue that it's Don Gill = PRESIDENT Trump
BBBWWAHAHHAHAHAHAHASHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHA
That just NEVER gets any less funny!!!! :D
Dramatic moment Coast Guard captures drug smugglers in eastern Pacific Ocean
A viral video circulating the web shows the crew of the Coast Guard Cutter Kimball dramatically stopping suspected drug traffickers in their tracks during an April open-ocean interdiction.
https://www.foxnews.com/video/6372710852112
OH NO!!!! That's going to affect BORDER PATROL staffing!!! :D
You people are SO hilarious!!!! :D
BashiBazouk
29
He either has to be banned by Chris or have his side lose to point he goes off and licks his wounds for a while...
I agree with Bashi on this point: He goes off and licks his wounds for awhile when he's not here bootlicking and licking Trump. I disagree that he isn't a troll. He's not just a troll, he's a spamming repetitive toxic troll with a limited stale repertoire that rarely varies, and he definitely trolls for attention and will increase his routine until he gets it... lather, rinse, repeat.
Yunno I said before that woke progressive Democrats STILL haven't taken that honest look in the mirror regarding the 2024 election??
http://mfccfl.us/TheRoadTaken.jpg
This is EXACTLY what I mean... :D
It's so dead on ballz accurate it's SCARY!!! :D
Kick,
And, as has been established as FACT, YOUR opinion and Bashi's opinion doesn't matter a SINGLE whit to me..
It's ONLY CW's opinion that counts...
So, ya'all can simply go pound sand.. :D
So, ya'all can simply go pound sand.. :D
lather, rinse, repeat.
:D
Michale
35
And yet, judging from ALL the responses I get, you people ARE playing the game..
Incorrect. Calling out your game for what it is and playing it are two entirely different things. Nobody is desperately awarding themselves trophies with the exception of you... to the point of hysterically overcompensating as if you desperately have something to prove.
As CW noted correctly, your responses are the same awarding of trophies to yourself on endless repetitive loop, and no one except you is playing that. Calling it out and identifying it for what it is doesn't mean anyone else is playing it any more than calling out a criminal means one is a criminal. Clue in.
And, as has been established as FACT, YOUR opinion and Bashi's opinion doesn't matter a SINGLE whit to me..
It's ONLY CW's opinion that counts...
But do they matter to CW? That's the question you should be asking yourself...
Russ, Kick...
Let me explain it to ya'all another way...
Putting more Fighter Pilots in the air with the US Air Force has absolutely ZERO impact on US Marine forces on the ground..
The idea that putting more USAF Pilots in the air will affect the US Marines kicking China's or Iran's ass is completely and utterly LAUGHABLE...
And ANYONE who floats the notion, with ICE raids and Border Enforcement, that one has ANYTHING to do with the other is simply FLAUNTING their complete and utter ignorance..
Capisce??? :D
Bash,
}}}It's ONLY CW's opinion that counts...{{{
But do they matter to CW? That's the question you should be asking yourself...
Do CW's opinions matter to CW???
Are you stoned???
:eyeroll:
Intentionally misreading is jerk behavior...
Michale
39
You DO realize that the goal is to make LESS work for CW, not more..
You DO realize you're again being a jerk?
The problem here is ya'all changed the definition (as ya'all woke progressive Democrats are wont to do) of 'jerk' to 'whatever Michale comments that we don't like.'
Incorrect. Your monotonous awarding yourself trophies via the same repetitive claptrap and the endless overcompensating is being a jerk. If you're having to apologize to a commenter like you did to Russ, then you're obviously at least somewhat aware you're being a jerk.
If CW tells me I am being a 'jerk' according to HIS definition, then me and him will work out what needs to be worked out..
Which CW has already done and which you've totally ignored his instructions. There's nothing to "work out" except your continuation of playing the rote and monotonous game that no one else is playing, which is obviously that of being a jerk.
YOU people don't get a say in how I comment..... That privilege is reserved for CW and Liz and ONLY CW and Liz...
Oh, absolutely and positively 100% incorrect. We people obviously are giving a say in how you comment, and in case you missed it, CW actually has asked us all for our opinions. So for those confused about the entire situation: If we had no say in the matter, then why the hell would CW have asked us all for our opinions?
Your pathetic inability to comprehend simple English and connect one dot to another remains intact.
I know for a FACT that CW hates all the work that goes into actually MODERATING this forum...
He stated so himself that he almost was ready to bag it and close down Weigantia after PRESIDENT Trump's most AWESOMEST WIN!!...
Give these facts, the solution is simple.....
Get the new software up and running that will allow the snowflakes to HIDE from opinions and FACTS they don't like...
THEN place a disclaimer at WEIGANTIA CITY LIMITS that states:
WEIGANTIA IS AN UNMODERATED FORUM.. IF SOMEONE TOUCHES YER BUTTHOLE IN A WAY YOU DON'T LIKE OR YOU GET YER WIDDLE SNOWFLAKE FEELINGS HURT, FIND YOURSELF ANOTHER FORUM.. WEIGANTIA IS A FULL CONTACT POLITICAL FORUM AND THE MODERATOR DOESN'T HAVE THE TIME NOR THE INCLINATION TO CODDLE POOR WIDDLE SNOWFLAKES
And EVERYONE will live happily ever after...
SO SAY WE ALL
Or just ban you, which would be even less work for CW...
Michale
41
If you ARE following this comment thread, I would ask that you read my comments for yourself and make your OWN determination..
Now is the part where the needy troll plays victim.
It's been proven beyond ANY doubt that I could no more get a fair shake with the Weigantian riff-raff (which, VERY sadly, includes JL now) then PRESIDENT Trump could get a fair shake in a Manhattan court room..
Your problem here is that you've misidentified the whole of Weigantia (including JL) as the "riff-raff," and you seem infinitely unaware that Trump did get a fair shake in multiple Manhattan courtrooms and lost on the vast majority of counts levied against him due to the overwhelming documentation offered in evidence... which evidence is actually public record and located online.
Or just ban you, which would be even less work for CW...
You obviously don't know CW very well..
Such a ban would violate EVERY tenet and principle he holds dear..
Yes he had to take that step with Don Harris.. But Harris was threatening physical real life violence and CW was not about to put his family at risk..
But to ban someone SOLELY because a difference of political opinion??
THAT would violate every thing that makes CW the person he is..
*I* would not put CW thru that..
I would voluntarily leave if CW asked me to rather than him having to actually ban me...
THAT is how much CW's friendship means to me..
And on THAT note, Weigantians...
Good night and thanx for all the fish...
Michale
58
Yes.. I realize that YOU think I am being a jerk...
Anyone on this forum that refers to another commenter as being a "simple simple creature" is being a jerk.
But YOUR definition of "jerk" is simply someone that PROVES you wrong..
Incorrect. Your attempts to dehumanize another commenter versus responding to his valid point is the definition of being a jerk. Also your repetitive attempts to put words in the mouths of other posters (like that bullshit quoted directly above) that they never said is also the definition of being a jerk, and it's demonstrably the monotonous and tedious game you play here. Obviously, anyone can prove any other poster wrong without being a jerk... with the possible exception of you on this forum.
Ergo, YOUR opinion is completely and utterly meaningless to the objective reality of the here and now..
Ergo, you inventing fake quotes and fabricating commenters' opinions for them in service of your own game playing agenda is an exercise in repetitive bullshit, and as such is being a jerk.
Do you comprehend that??
I understand your game better than you do, and CW actually nailed your modus operandi perfectly.
YOUR opinion doesn't matter a single wit...
Do you not understand that you routinely and repetitively fabricating my opinion (and those of other posters on this forum) and then pissing all over it is rather like insulting yourself and then awarding yourself endless trophies for nothing beyond your own bullshit?
With ONE more parting message...
HOW CAN YOU SLEEP AT NIGHT KNOWING THAT EVERYONE IN WEIGANTIA HATES YOU!!!???
Without any underwear so they can kiss my nekkid ass!! :D
Michale
62
The idea that BORDER PATROL staffing is suffering because of ICE raids is completely and utterly ridiculous...
I commented nothing about staffing suffering because of ICE raids, but don't let that fact keep you from moving the goalposts and awarding your obvious neediness with yet another trophy.
So, please, spare us the drama...
Drama? A wholly different subject.
Claims that ICE raids in the US are somehow draining Border Patrol staffing at the border are NOTHING but pure nonsense.
You're against refuting your own claim.
ICE and Border Patrol are separate agencies under the Department of Homeland Security, with distinct roles. ICE handles interior enforcement, while Border Patrol secures the border.
That obviously doesn't change the fact they work together on the border. Thank you for playing.
The idea that ICE raids yank agents from the border is baseless hysterical fearmongering and complete and utter bullshit...
You're sounding repetitive like AI cut-and-paste redundancy.
So, please stop clutching your pearls..
I don't wear pearls. If I have need of clutching anything, I can assure you, it won't be pearls.
Michale
72
I did a TDY with Border Patrol when I lived in San Diego.. I know from whence I speak...
It seems you have awarded yourself with having held every job on the planet. *laughs* Be that as it may and still, how many decades ago was that (I'm not really asking), and do you suppose that everything remains exactly as when you did it? Rhetorical question.
ICE agents do not work on the Border at the line stopping ILLEGAL IMMIGRANT CRIMINALS from crossing.
ICE agents work at and around the border. Other than that, I have no need to participate in your typical games of moving the goalposts wherein your post is misconstruing the contents of the words of other posters and therefore superfluous and overcompensating.
ICE agents work near and at the border and definitely in direct coordination with USBP.
Thank you again for playing.
Michale
79
And, as has been established as FACT, YOUR opinion and Bashi's opinion doesn't matter a SINGLE whit to me..
Obviously incorrect as archived herein.
It's ONLY CW's opinion that counts...
If it was ONLY CW's opinion that counted, there would obviously have been no need for him to solicit the opinions of everyone else in the entire group regarding specifically you.
So, ya'all can simply go pound sand.. :D
I don't do anything "simply;" that's your monotonous game and no one else's on this forum.
Michale
83
Let me explain it to ya'all another way...
Let me explain it to you another way. In your haste to act in your typical fashion and dehumanize Russ as a "simple simple creature," you missed his point entirely.
Nothing else you post will change the FACT that you missed his valid point, you then put additional words in his mouth that he never said and then twisted that bullshit into a pretzel and supported it with still more bullshit in order to award yourself another trophy... and I stopped reading right there because (CW is absolutely correct) no one else is playing it.
Michale
86
Get the new software up and running that will allow the snowflakes to HIDE from opinions and FACTS they don't like...
The game you play here wherein you troll commenters calling them "simple simple creatures" and various assorted other of the repetitive bullshit that you're playing at should not have to be tolerated by anyone. The fact that you're referring to people who'd are sick of that monotonous toxic trolling shit of yours as "snowflakes" wanting to hide from "opinions and FACTS" explains everything anyone would ever need to know about the issue.
No one should have to tolerate this toxic game of repetitive shit that you play here. No one.
THEN place a disclaimer at WEIGANTIA CITY LIMITS that states:
WEIGANTIA IS AN UNMODERATED FORUM.. IF SOMEONE TOUCHES YER BUTTHOLE IN A WAY YOU DON'T LIKE OR YOU GET YER WIDDLE SNOWFLAKE FEELINGS HURT, FIND YOURSELF ANOTHER FORUM.. WEIGANTIA IS A FULL CONTACT POLITICAL FORUM AND THE MODERATOR DOESN'T HAVE THE TIME NOR THE INCLINATION TO CODDLE POOR WIDDLE SNOWFLAKES
Since you are unarguably the biggest whiniest victim on this forum, you might want to review your handiwork there and definitely be careful what you're proposing.
And EVERYONE will live happily ever after...
Oh, I definitely disagree.
SO SAY WE ALL
Despite your repetitive attempts to do so, you do not speak for me or anyone else on this forum.
BashiBazouk
87
Or just ban you, which would be even less work for CW...
I know, right!? I'll just say it's a rather imbecilic thing to propose for this forum.
WTF is wrong with CW that he hasn’t banned this troll? I started hanging out in Weigantia in mid-2019 and I don’t see why he’s still here.
Michale
89
You obviously don't know CW very well..
You obviously believe you do, but what if it's you who doesn't?
Such a ban would violate EVERY tenet and principle he holds dear..
I am willing to wager you cannot begin to fathom what constitutes CW's "EVERY tenet and principle he holds dear."
Yes he had to take that step with Don Harris.. But Harris was threatening physical real life violence and CW was not about to put his family at risk..
I don't actually remember Don Harris posting anything in the comments section that threatened any violence toward CW or his family, but I'd definitely be interested to know if that actually happened if CW would care to enlighten the group, please.
But to ban someone SOLELY because a difference of political opinion??
As far as I know, Don Harris was actually banned for his repetitive trolling CW to post his "idea" and the monotonous use of foul language in his comments. CW has also obviously made well known the reason you've been yellow carded, and it clearly has nothing to do with your description of "SOLELY because a difference of political opinion," and you know it.
THAT would violate every thing that makes CW the person he is..
It you seriously believe that CW would be banning you "SOLELY because a difference of political opinion" despite all his multiple admonishments in no uncertain terms that were very succinctly stated and in no way confusing, then it appears to my eyes that you either haven't got the first clue about CW or you cannot understand simple English... or both.
*I* would not put CW thru that..
Oh, wait. Are we now to the part where the victim plays martyr?
I would voluntarily leave if CW asked me to rather than him having to actually ban me...
Yes... yes we have moved beyond victim to becoming martyr. I cannot say I did not see that coming.
THAT is how much CW's friendship means to me..
And scene.
Not to confuse you or anything, but if CW's friendship meant anything to you at all, it could be easily proven by following his requests. If your neediness to award yourself the endless supply of trophies has to take place toward his supporters on his political blog, then maybe you're not the friend you believe you are.
@caddy,
if you really do a thorough dive into some of the comments sections from 2006 to 2010, perhaps you'll come to understand. perhaps not, and it isn't the easiest of reading, but that might be what it takes to walk in my shoes, or Elizabeth's.
JL
@caddy
If you actually do go look at ancient history, perhaps you'll come to understand the concept of denial. Don't for a even a moment consider that it was all phony BS from a super needy attention swine.
While it's encouraging to see healthy movement in the right direction from CW, LizM, and nypoet22, they are backsliders. We should not expect death cult Trumpanzees to admit they were duped regardless of how many times Fat Donny betrays them and this is no different. Humans dislike admitting they were wrong.
@jfc
humans who are sufficiently rigorous with themselves can look objectively at a situation, no matter how much they'd prefer not to. that's what makes CW reality-based.
humans are also capable of change. not all humans do, and not in all ways, but that potential always exists. that is why reality tends to have a liberal bias.
JL
Even if I were to agree that this malignant TDS chatbot troll ever had any redeeming qualities (and I absolutely do not), that situation objectively changed a long time ago and ancient history is not relevant.
nypoet22
103
humans who are sufficiently rigorous with themselves can look objectively at a situation, no matter how much they'd prefer not to. that's what makes CW reality-based.
From a political forum standpoint, I consider you human (as opposed to being a troll) so let's do some reality-based objectively looking at the situation whether or not you'd prefer to.
* CW, not for the first time, posts a request to the trolling troll in simple English words.
* Things seem better, and then the troll determines it's time for a sharp elbow... to either see what he can get away or maybe just in need of attention... or both...
Hey, you know what, I hereby interrupt my bullet list because there's really no need to elaborate on this, goode trickle already went there in a two-part accurate much-needed rant and did an excellent job:
goode trickle - Part 1
goode trickle - Part 2
So, now let's review: The troll enters this commentary and begins the "spleen venting" at [5] with the trolling of Bashi. He follows that up at [6] by dragging in a post FPC (see goode trickle's definition in link at Part 2) to troll and insult Russ. Multiple of the following posts continue the petty crap toward yourself, including the nonsensical trollish prattling recurrent spam-spam-spam SSDD regarding "Democrat propaganda" (when he demonstrably uses the same sources).
Cutting to the chase: At the end of the day he thanks the group for "the fish" and follows that up with "kiss my ass."
Your "friend" enjoys what he's doing.
humans are also capable of change.
According to others, including yourself, he has changed. CW has posted his easily understood requests recently, and if it isn't obvious he's not going to follow it because he enjoys being an attention-seeking troll putting words in everyone's mouth, insulting them and interrupting the flow of political dialogue they're trying to have so that he can get his jollies, what will it take to convince you?
This discussion is moot...
https://www.chrisweigant.com/2025/05/13/bribery-in-plane-sight/#comment-219498
Now how about we all just let the poor deceased equine requiescat in pace, eh??
:D
How about you cease and desist in your perpetual attempts to troll and control the commentary, eh???????
New Day Clean Slate
Good night... :)
Michale
108
New Day Clean Slate
Well, that's great when it suits your agenda, eh????? But when you entered this commentary (and when you exited later that day), your agenda was entirely different and the farthest thing from this "new day clean slate" you're requesting after your typical trolling day of frolic getting your jollies at the expense of human decency.
Well, "you reap what you sow" isn't a difficult concept to grasp. Try to remember your request for a "new day clean slate" the next time you decide it's time to show your ass and be a jerk despite the multiple requests to knock it off.
It's a new day with a clean slate, Kick..
Why not do YOUR part to make it work..
:D
Well, "you reap what you sow" isn't a difficult concept to grasp.
No, it isn't..
And what's been "sown" here is a nice respectful play area where we can all have knock down drag out political debates while still maintaining respect for each other as Americans..
So, let's ALL do our part to REAP what's been sown.. :D
K??
@kick,
how are what you wrote [105] and what i wrote [34,36,37,103] in any way incompatible? not exactly sure what you're trying to convince me of.
JL
The monotonous cut-and-paste rote and repetitive routine you perform here isn't "political debate," and what you sow here in CW's comments section doesn't fit your description of "nice" and "respectful" but demonstrably definitely "play area." Ergo, the idea that you, of all commenters here, would expect to reap the "maintaining respect for each other as Americans" is uproariously hysterical.
If you want "nice" and "respectful," then you'd best start sowing it... as opposed to the trolling tedium ad nauseam within what you believe to be your "play area."
nypoet22
112
how are what you wrote [105] and what i wrote [34,36,37,103] in any way incompatible? not exactly sure what you're trying to convince me of.
OMG... they're not. I saw your [15] and [103], and if you hadn't pointed it out, I would never have noticed that I'd scrolled right past the others... which is entirely part of the issue here, wherein pertinent posts can get obscured by mountains of lengthy littered bandwidth and definitely (intentionally?) interrupt the flow of dialogue and attempted commentary among all the tedium.
So I'm teaching to the choir. I'll stand myself in the corner now.
@kick,
i thought there might have been a bit of a disconnect, i just wasn't quite sure what it was. :)
JL