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The Inevitability Of Legalization

[ Posted Wednesday, July 17th, 2019 – 17:19 UTC ]

Attending the breakout sessions on marijuana legal reform at Netroots Nation has only gotten better and better over the years. Each year's panel is unique, of course, but I'm speaking of a larger picture here, because over the past decade or so the question of legalizing marijuana for recreational adult use has gone from a literal pipe dream to an aspiration to a solid plan to (in state after state) a triumphant reality. And now there is an aura of inevitability about legalization for the entire country -- an concept which would have seemed wildly unrealistic just ten or twelve years ago. We're winning this battle, and we're going to win this whole war in the very near future. This lends a spirit of optimism to the discussion that just wasn't present a decade ago.

It was only seven years ago that the first two states took the plunge, as Washington and Colorado passed voter referenda legalizing recreational possession and consumption of cannabis in 2012. Previously, California had tried but failed to do so, which was a huge psychological setback for the movement. Since then, nine more states have legalized, the most recent being Illinois, where the legislature (not a voter initiative) legalized marijuana after the governor made doing so a focal point of his whole campaign. That is very tangible progress. Eleven states plus Washington D.C. have now legalized weed, and the only question now is which state will go next, and whether it will be by ballot initiative or through its legislature. Every election cycle sees at least a few ballot measures succeed, and there's no reason to think that trend is going to do anything but continue -- even in some very red states.

Nothing breeds success like success. All the old arguments for keeping marijuana illegal have been shown to be laughably overblown. The sky has not fallen in Colorado, or anywhere else where marijuana is now legal to buy and use. All the dire warnings and predictions of the evils of legalization have simply not come to pass, making it harder and harder to convince voters in other states of the same flawed arguments. This makes it easier and easier for each successive state to vote for legalization, because they now have solid evidence to counter the wild-eyed claims from the anti-legalization crowd. Where problems have arisen in how legalization has been carried out, they have largely been solved -- by addressing the actual problem with further rules and regulations instead of fearmongering and lies. The War On Weed is ending with a whimper, not a bang.

Back to Netroots, though. Over the past seven years, as the pro-legalization movement has racked up win after win, the activists are now being joined by actual politicians. Marijuana legalization had historically been seen by Democratic politicians as a very dangerous stance to support, ever since the whole War On Weed began in the 1960s. This attitude got even worse during the "Just Say No" 1980s, when the drug war was used as a political bludgeon against Democrats who were painted as "soft on crime" by their opponents. Those days are finally (and thankfully) almost at an end.

Consider the fact that Barack Obama -- who admitted to being an absolute stoner in high school -- could not bring himself to wholeheartedly support recreational legalization in either of his presidential campaigns, even though in his heart of hearts he probably wanted to. But he saw it as too risky a political stance to take in 2008 or 2012. Hillary Clinton likewise backed away from supporting legalization in 2016 (although Bernie Sanders notably did support it). This time around, the question hasn't been asked in a Democratic debate yet, but if it is I wouldn't be surprised to see every hand (or nearly every hand) on the debate stage get raised in support. That's a transformation in political attitudes that has happened in a very short time.

This year's Netroots session on marijuana legal reform had an impressive panel, as usual (more on them in a moment), but it also had two politicians who just dropped by to share their thoughts -- Representative Barbara Lee from Oakland, California (or, as she amusingly put it: "Wakanda forever," complete with a crossed-arm salute), and presidential candidate Jay Inslee who is also the governor of Washington state, one of the first to legalize. Inslee not only spoke approvingly of legalization both in his own state and elsewhere, but he actually bragged that Washington's marijuana was the best in the county. Not just marijuana support, but actual marijuana boosterism! Chalk this up on my "never thought I'd see the day" list.

The other notable person to speak this year was on the scheduled panel itself. Normally the panel consists solely of marijuana legal reform activists, like Justin Strekal of the National Organization for the Reform of Marijuana Laws (NORML), who led this year's panel once again. While there were other activists attending this year, what was interesting was hearing from Shaleen Title, who is a commissioner for social justice on the Massachusetts Cannabis Control Commission -- one of the regulators entrusted with implementing legalization in the commonwealth of Massachusetts. She spoke from a viewpoint that I hadn't heard before -- that of one of the people who had to work out all the details of moving from a black market economy to a fully-regulated and tax-producing legal industry. This is why Netroots is so interesting, because you hear from people intimately involved in the nuts and bolts of producing real political change.

Each year the atmosphere at these sessions gets more and more optimistic and positive, as more and more legalization successes happen. When I first started attending, as I mentioned, the feeling was that this was going to be a very hard fight with no certain chance of success at the end of it. Then successes started happening, and then they became normalized. When Illinois recently legalized, it barely caused a ripple in the national news, because it just wasn't all that big a deal anymore -- "yet another state legalizes marijuana" is admittedly not as exciting a story as when the first two states did so.

This trend will likely continue. In the states where ballot initiatives are possible, it is likely that more and more legalization measures will pass, as the citizens vote for sanity rather than continuing the failure of the War On Weed. More and more politicians will begin to realize what a winning issue this is at the polls, and actively campaign on legalization, which should lead more and more legislatures in the states without ballot initiatives to move forward on legalization as well.

This tide is simply never going to turn back. I have no idea how many states will have legalized recreational marijuana use by the time the national laws get changed, but it's a fair bet that it'll be a lot more than the current eleven. The only real question left is how long it is going to take Congress to realize that it is long past time for the federal government to throw in the towel and admit the new reality. It could happen as soon as 2021, or it could take four or five more years, but at this point that's about as long as I would expect. The end of the War On Weed is now not only in sight, but it has become downright inevitable.

 

[As a public service for those readers living in Massachusetts, Marijuana Commissioner Shaleen Title has her own web page and an active Twitter feed, for those who would like to see what she's up to. I'd like to also personally thank her for participating in the panel, as well.]

-- Chris Weigant

 

Follow Chris on Twitter: @ChrisWeigant

 

76 Comments on “The Inevitability Of Legalization”

  1. [1] 
    nypoet22 wrote:

    marifest destiny?

  2. [2] 
    Don Harris wrote:

    The war on weed is not ending in a whimper- it's ending in a bong.

  3. [3] 
    Don Harris wrote:

    The amazing speed of the sea change on legalization is just another example that many other things that seem insurmountable can be accomplished.

    The change in perception of the viability of small contributions is another.

    It's time you accept the inevitability that small donor campaigns are the future (if our democracy is to have a future) and get on the front side of the coming change and inform citizens aboot One Demand.

    Even if it takes ten years or so to be fully effective, it will be fully effective ten years from now but will be getting better each election cycle in the meantime.

    The alternative is to continue to do nothing while the problem gets worse for the next ten years which will make the problem even harder to fix.

    The maybe in ten years or so with big money out of the way we can start doing real work on the other problems like climate change, income inequality and healthcare that cannot be solved until the biggest obstacle that prevents solutions we have now to these problems from being implemented- big money controlling our political process.

    If we can't solve these problems with big money controlling our political process now we certainly won't be able to solve those problems when for ten more years the problem of big money in our political process has gotten worse.

    Or are we just supposed to happy that we can at least get legally stoned as we head full speed into the iceberg?

  4. [4] 
    Kick wrote:

    CW: Eleven states plus Washington D.C. have now legalized weed, and the only question now is which state will go next, and whether it will be by ballot initiative or through its legislature.

    It's going to be Texas; I just know it! ;)

    Oh, who am I kidding... Texas will be near to last, and bringing up the rear? Utah! However, the Texas House did recently pass HB 1365 that would allow the current legal medical marijuana in Texas for epileptic conditions only to be expanded to include post-traumatic stress disorder as a qualifying condition as well as ailments that produce severe pain and nausea.

    If any such medicinal marijuana expansion bill does ever manage to make its way to the governor's office and somehow get signed, I would wager that event -- in and of itself -- would be painful and nauseating to a lot of people who would naturally then require medication. ;)

  5. [5] 
    Kick wrote:


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  6. [6] 
    Kick wrote:

    JL
    1

    marifest destiny?

    ISWYDT. Impressive. :)

  7. [7] 
    Kick wrote:

    Don Harris
    2

    The war on weed is not ending in a whimper- it's ending in a bong.

    I see there is a topic we could actually have a "rational discussion" about. <--- the correct spelling :)

  8. [8] 
    Michale wrote:

    Bid to impeach Trump defeated in landslide...

    In lopsided vote, House kills effort to impeach Trump

    The measure was being pushed by Texas Rep. Al Green, who says the president is unfit for office.
    https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/congress/house-vote-impeachment-resolution-against-trump-n1030791

    Apparently, the vast majority of Democrats believe President Trump is PERFECTLY fit for office...

    BBBWWWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

    Once again, Dumbocrats are maneuvered into a LOSE LOSE situation!! :D

    I'm lovin it!!! :D

  9. [9] 
    Michale wrote:

    Trump MAGA Rally Crowd Chants "Send Her Back" To Rep. Ilhan Omar
    https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2019/07/17/trump_maga_rally_crowd_chants_send_her_back_to_rep_ilhan_omar.html

    Telling an America Hater... Love it or leave it!!

    I'm lovin' it!!! :D

  10. [10] 
    Michale wrote:

    The problem is Dumbocrats are going to use the Marijuana Legalization process as a template to legalize illegal immigration.. IE Open Borders..

    And THAT is why Dumbocrats are going to lose and lose big in 2020...

  11. [11] 
    Michale wrote:

    Remember how Dumbocrats went on and on about how Americans should be afraid that Republicans are going to take away their healthcare they like???

    Ocasio-Cortez: Nobody is ‘heartbroken’ at the prospect of losing private health insurance
    https://www.foxnews.com/politics/ocasio-cortez-nobody-is-heartbroken-at-the-prospect-of-losing-private-health-insurance

    NOW it's Dumbocrats who are going to take away Americans healthcare they like and NOW Dumbocrats are claiming that no one will care...

    The Democrat/Incest/Racist/Hypocrisy Party...

    Yea.. Like they can win in 2020... :D

  12. [12] 
    Michale wrote:

    Omar introduces resolution defending boycott of Israel, likens it to boycotts of Nazi Germany, Soviet Union
    https://www.foxnews.com/politics/omar-introduces-resolution-defending-boycotts-of-israel-likens-it-to-boycott-of-nazi-germany-soviet-union

    Omar is not only an America Hater, she is also an Israel Hater...

  13. [13] 
    Don Harris wrote:

    CW-
    This sounds an awful lot like a watered down version of One Demand.

    Isn't it time that citizens were offered the real thing that doesn't just nibble around the edges of a few sources of the problem and covers all the corruption?

    https://www.commondreams.org/news/2019/07/17/cant-change-corrupt-system-taking-its-money-sanders-urges-all-2020-democrats-reject

  14. [14] 
    Don Harris wrote:

    OOOOH. I got it on the first try!

    "WHooooHoooo!"
    -Homer Simpson

  15. [15] 
    Michale wrote:

    This sounds an awful lot like a watered down version of One Demand.

    Isn't it time that citizens were offered the real thing that doesn't just nibble around the edges of a few sources of the problem and covers all the corruption?

    https://www.commondreams.org/news/2019/07/17/cant-change-corrupt-system-taking-its-money-sanders-urges-all-2020-democrats-reject

    Let the back-pedaling begin!!!! :D

  16. [16] 
    Michale wrote:

    Behind the scenes of night Trump partied at Mar-a-Lago with Epstein, NFL cheerleaders...
    https://www.stamfordadvocate.com/news/article/Behind-the-scenes-of-the-night-Trump-partied-at-14103852.php

    Funny how the Leftist MSM wants to key on a single obscure Epstein/Trump event that occurred over two decades ago...

    Yet they totally ignore the blatant, far FAR more numerous and ongoing and more recent connections that Epstein has with the Clintons..

    As if more proof is needed that the MSM is in the bag for the Left...

    There it is...

  17. [17] 
    Michale wrote:

    Cal Thomas: Trump could set up Dems for defeat in 2020 by forcing them to embrace 4 radical congresswomen

    The phrase "America, love it or leave it" has a pedigree dating back at least to the McCarthy era. In the 1970s, the phrase was employed again against those protesting America's involvement in the Vietnam War. The left has its own version, vowing to leave the country if a Republican is elected president. They rarely do.

    President Trump resurrected the phrase by publicly slamming four freshmen congresswomen for their criticism of the United States and his policies. He suggested they "go back where you came from," though they are all American citizens.

    Whatever one thinks of the president's remarks, the predictable "racist" charge was leveled at him because the four are women of color and two are Muslim. The president is setting Democrats up for what could be a major defeat in the 2020 election by forcing them to embrace (probably) these people and their statements, thus causing further fallout within the party, or denounce them (unlikely) and risk electoral harm. It's lose-lose for Democrats.
    https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/cal-thomas-america-love-or-leave-it

    Cal Thomas is stealing my moves!! :D

    That's EXACTLY what President Trump has done..

    He has, for the umpteenth time, manuvered the Dumbocrats into a LOSE LOSE situation...

    The sheer GENIUS of President Trump is uncanny..

  18. [18] 
    Michale wrote:

    The media outlet Axios shared the results of a small, exclusive poll taken in May of a "crucial group of swing voters." Respondents, "1,003 likely general-election voters who are white and have two years or less of college education" put their approval for Democratic U.S. Reps. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, Ilhan Omar, Rashida Tlaib and Ayanna Pressley in low double or single digits.

    Only last week did House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, D-Calif., discussing the congresswomen's opposition to the emergency border aid bill -- a bill leadership supported -- seem to dismiss them in an interview with The New York Times, saying, "They're four people and that's how many votes they got." After the president's comments, Pelosi felt obligated to defend the four congresswomen, but that may come at a cost.

    President Trump has forced Pelosi to do a 180 and defend the congresscritters and make them the face of the Democrat Party.. :D

    Beautiful moves, Mr President!!! :D

  19. [19] 
    Michale wrote:

    The four congresswomen have been critical of the nation they were elected to serve and some have even made anti-Semitic and anti-Israel statements.

    The left swims in a deep sea of hypocrisy when it uses buzzwords like "diversity" and "racism." A recent example appeared in the Washington Times. The newspaper reported that congressional Democrats are opposing four "people of color" nominated to federal courts by President Trump. If a Democratic president had nominated these people and Republicans opposed them, is there any doubt the "racist" slur would be hurled at them?

    A 'sea' of hypocrisy indeed...

    The Dumbocrat Party won't approve President Trump's nominees because they are people of color...

    More likely the Racist Party.. The apple doesn't fall too far from the Dumbocrat Party's racist foundation...

  20. [20] 
    Michale wrote:

    There is no excuse for calling U.S. migrant detention centers "concentration camps" and likening our Border Patrol officers to Nazi concentration camp guards, especially since the four freshmen and other Democrats have the power to fix the migrant crisis, but won't because it appears they prefer having the issue to batter Republicans.

    If this keeps up, House Democrats who defend such outrageous statements are likely to find themselves in the minority again. Many Americans are fed up with hearing this stuff and are likely to take revenge at the polls.

    Yep... Exactly... Independents and NPAs won't stand for all the America hating and America bashing...

    It simply boggles the mind that Dumbocrats think this is a winning strategy to win over voters..

    All it does is please the voter base who is already hysterically enslaved by the Party..

    It does NOTHING to win over Independents, NPAs and Trump voters..

    And only a brain-addled MORON would think the Dumbocrats can win the election solely on their 'strength' of their base...

  21. [21] 
    Michale wrote:

    https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/other/president_trump_job_approval-6179.html

    President Trump's job approval and approval on the economy are both ticking upwards.. :D

    Dumbocrats don't stand a chance in 2020... :D

  22. [22] 
    Michale wrote:

    The New Face of the Democratic Party

    As the Left collectively melts down over Donald Trump’s tweets about the socialist “squad,” calling calling him every name in the book from racist to xenophobic, the fact is, the president just flipped everything on its head. From Nancy Pelosi and Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez having a very public spat to the entire Left and Democratic party reflexively defending the four socialists, Trump has made sure that the far-left Communist-loving progressive women are, in fact, the face of the Democratic Party.

    And that’s a real problem for the Democrats.

    While some continue to be distracted by style and skip substance with Trump, and others, like certain peacetime conservatives at legacy publications, become apologists for the anti-Semitic Ilhan Omar, many others still seem to be missing the entire point. However inartful Trump’s comments might be, it really does turn the questions around on them.

    Why are they here? Of all the 195 countries in the world, why did you, Ilhan Omar, come here? And why are you proposing ideas that are deeply un-American, from coercive socialism to the loss of national sovereignty through open borders? Why are you and you gal pals proposing ideas that generations of Americans since our founding have rejected? What ideas on any level are you proposing that have anything to do with our constitutional republic or its perpetuation?
    https://amgreatness.com/2019/07/17/the-new-face-of-the-democratic-party/

    You see, this is what ya'all simply can't comprehend about the Dumbocrat Party.. They have moved so far Left and ya'all have moved with them..

    So, in your minds, there is no movement at all..

    And yet, it is unequivocally factual that today's Dumbocrat Party simply will not attract Independents and NPAs and doesn't stand a hope in hell of being able to attract Trump voters...

    And, without those 2 large blocks of voters, Dumbocrats simply cannot win elections..

    It's the law of nature...

  23. [23] 
    Michale wrote:

    Every time Trump goads Democrats or the liberal media—but I repeat myself—they take the bait. Every. Single. Time. You would think at some point, after two-and-a-half years of this, Democrats would realize they’ve let Trump become their Pied Piper; he calls the tune and they dance to it.

    But they don’t. What he has done this time is to put the four freshmen communists (let’s drop the “socialist” moniker and call them what they are) front and center. To “own Trump,” and because of intersectionality and the far left beliefs that have captured many of the Democratic activists and small-dollar donors, Democrats mindlessly have come to the defense of these women.

    But to own Trump, Democrats also have to own everything these women stand for, including their refusal to disavow Antifa and al-Qaeda. What are the repercussions of this? Well, it allows Trump to do exactly what he’s wanted to: make 2020 a referendum on the competing worldviews of coercive socialism versus a free market, capitalistic approach, but also to show how un-American the Left truly is.

    I know, I know... I am really harping on this..

    That's because it's so damn brilliant... President Trump sets the line and baits the hook..

    And Dumbocrats BITE..... **EVERY SINGLE TIME**

    One with any intelligence would think they would learn to quit giving President Trump exactly what he wants..

    But the Dumbocrats simply cannot help themselves.. They are so engulfed and possessed by HHPTDS, they HAVE to take the bait..

    I heard the most hilarious thing this morning..

    Occasional Cortex said that it's "racist" to call someone a communist..

    Communism... Created by a white guy and put into play by a bunch of white guys..

    Yet, it's racist to call someone a communist...

    And this moron is one of the faces of the Dumbocrat Party...

    Ya'all must be soooo proud... :eyeroll:

  24. [24] 
    Michale wrote:

    He’s succeeding thanks to the mindlessness of Trump Derangement Syndrome but also because of the shallow, short term thinking and behavior of the Democrats. The Democrats have chosen or, perhaps one could argue, were actually compelled by the grassroots, to embrace the communist vipers. Problem is these movements, as history shows us with the Jacobins of the French Revolution, become all consuming fires, many times annihilating those who started the conflagration. Just ask Robspierre.

    Nancy Pelosi and the establishment allowed, even embraced the toxic identity politics that Ocasio-Cortez now champions and uses as a flamethrower against all who oppose her. Combine the reality of that with the fact that Trump is succeeding in making Ocasio-Cortez, Omar, Pressley, and Tlaib the face of the Democratic Party, and this is a win-win for Trump just over a year out from the 2020 elections.

    One can argue that we're over a year from the elections and a lot can happen in that time.

    And that would be a factually valid argument..

    But also an argument easy to counter..

    President Trump has proven time and time again he can bait the Dumbocrats anytime he wants and spin them silly in any direction he wants..

    So, there is simply NOTHING stopping President Trump from using this strategy time and time again until the run-up to Nov 2020...

    It's crystal clear that Democrats will keep falling for it over and over and over again... So, there really isn't ANYTHING stopping president Trump from forcing Democrats to chase their tails over and over and over again... :D

    It's gonna be a really REALLY fun year.. :D

  25. [25] 
    C. R. Stucki wrote:

    Michale

    Nightmare scenario for you to think about.

    Trump and the Dem nominee are on stage for the first 2020 debate. The Dem plays a 2016 tape of Trump promising to "never raise taxes on the American people" followed by the statistic of how much the the tariff taxes cost Americans this year, followed by pointing out that Trump is so gawdam dumb he thinks the tariff taxes were paid by the Chinese and the Mexicans!

    What will Trump respond?

  26. [26] 
    Michale wrote:

    What will Trump respond?

    I have no idea..

    I am not the businessman that President Trump is nor do I have any real knowledge of economics beyond what everybody knows..

    Tariffs are a good weapon to have in the arsenal, as has been proven beyond any doubt... They brought Mexico to it's knees about that foot-dragging on taking care of illegal immigrants on THEIR side of the border..

    It's also a bona fide FACT that previous Presidents let foreign interests run roughshod over America when it came to unfair trade practices..

    President Trump's the ONLY POTUS to date who has bitch slapped those countries back...

    For me, the ideal response would be to play back the face of the Dumbocrat Party, Occasional Cortex and her claim that they should stop Amazon and use the 3 billion in tax savings for Dumbocrat Pet Projects...

    And then, President Trump turns to the audience and asks, "Is THAT the Party you want running this country??"

    I would also point at the Dumbocrat Candidates pledges to raise taxes on middle class Americans..

    I would finish off with Odumbo's claim about how the manufacturing jobs are NOT coming back (hundreds of thousands have already come back) and Odumbo's claim that 2.0 GDP is the "new normal" and compare it with how good President Trump has gotten it...

    The re-ask the question, "Is THAT the Party you want running this country??"

    But, as I said, I don't know how President Trump should answer because I don't know economics or business as well as President Trump does..

    Your turn...

    At the same debate, President Trump plays ALL of the times Dumbocrats hate on America hand claim America isn't so great and America runs concentration camps etc etc etc..

    What will the Dumbocrat candidate respond??

  27. [27] 
    Michale wrote:

    Nightmare scenario for you to think about.

    Actually, it's an impossible scenario..

    Because a Dumbocrat candidate won't talk about the economy, he/she/it will talk about how bad America is and how much America is hated.. He/she/it will likely cut into a few cops and the US Military...

    Finally, he/she/it will go on and on about how the planet is going to be destroyed in 12 minutes if we don't give all our money and our freedoms to the UN and Al Crazed-Sex-Poodle Gore....

    So, it's not even a scenario worth considering because the Dumbocrat candidate will be too stoopid to bring it up..

  28. [28] 
    Michale wrote:

    Did you WANT to talk about debate scenarios???

    "Or were you just making chit-chat.."
    -Bill Murray, GROUNDHOG DAY

    :D

  29. [29] 
    Don Harris wrote:
  30. [30] 
    Michale wrote:

    What ya'all don't get about President Trump is that his supporters take him seriously, but not literally..

    Those who suffer from HHPTDS take him literally, but not seriously..

    And that's why the Dumbocrat Party lost.. And that is why they will continue to lose..

    Hell, the *ONLY* reason they won back the House in 2018 is ALL of the Dem candidates that made that happen ran as GOP-Lite....

    With as far Left as the Dumbocrat Party has sailed, Dims won't possibly win the White House, the Senate will have an increased GOP Majority and Dumbocrats will lose the House..

    Let's compare notes on 4 Nov 2020 and see who was closer to the reality?? :D

  31. [31] 
    Balthasar wrote:

    Tom Friedman from the New York Times:

    Dear Democrats: This is not complicated! Just nominate a decent, sane person, one committed to reunifying the country and creating more good jobs, a person who can gain the support of the independents, moderate Republicans and suburban women who abandoned Donald Trump in the midterms and thus swung the House of Representatives to the Democrats and could do the same for the presidency. And that candidate can win!

    But please, spare me the revolution! It can wait. Win the presidency, hold the House and narrow the spread in the Senate, and a lot of good things still can be accomplished. “No,” you say, “the left wants a revolution now!” O.K., I’ll give the left a revolution now: four more years of Donald Trump.

    That will be a revolution.

  32. [32] 
    Michale wrote:

    Tom Friedman from the New York Times:

    Yea... I posted that yesterday..

    Glad to see you are getting on board with my way of thinking.. :D

    There may be hope for you yet..

  33. [33] 
    Michale wrote:

    Since you seemed to have found a new wave of enlightenment to the FACTS...

    What's yer take on Occasional Cortex and her "squad" becoming the face of the Democrat Party...

    Do you think that's a good thing for Democrats???

  34. [34] 
    Balthasar wrote:

    Glad to see you are getting on board with my way of thinking..

    Oh, I am far from your way of thinking. You're thinking that Trump's fascist rally was the answer. It's not.

    Not even close.

  35. [35] 
    Balthasar wrote:

    For example, you have the absurd idea that 'the squad' is the new face of the democratic party.

    Well, they are the elected representatives of large blue districts. But are they the 'face' of the Democrats? Hardly. If you'll notice, there are about 137 other democrats that have a say in the way that the house works.

    But you go ahead and work against those four, and we'll go after Trump, okay?

  36. [36] 
    Balthasar wrote:

    For instance, the GOP keeps saying that they want a different health care system, but doesn't present a plan. That's cause they don't have one. Nothing.

    Infrastructure? too complicated.

    Why don't you run on all the stuff that the Senate passed this year? Oh.

    You've got nothing. Nothing but fear and hate.

  37. [37] 
    Michale wrote:

    Oh, I am far from your way of thinking. You're thinking that Trump's fascist rally was the answer. It's not.

    I know you believe that..

    But it wasn't a fascist rally.. Only a fascist would say that..

    It was a patriotic rally.. That is why you can't understand it..

    Well, they are the elected representatives of large blue districts. But are they the 'face' of the Democrats? Hardly. If you'll notice, there are about 137 other democrats that have a say in the way that the house works.

    Whatever you say, Nancy..

    But the facts say different..

    But I noticed you didn't answer my question..

    Don't worry.. That's answer enough..

    You've got nothing. Nothing but fear and hate.

    Says the guy who doesn't condemn AntiFa's actions... Says the guy who represents a party that is ALL about hate and fear...

    I wonder if you can appreciate how comical you sound.. You with your fear mongering about the end of the world and how much you hate Trump and Trump supporters.. :D

  38. [38] 
    Michale wrote:

    Why don't you run on all the stuff that the Senate passed this year? Oh.

    Because the House is too busy chasing after President Trump and the phantom Russian Menace they refuse to actually do their jobs..

  39. [39] 
    Michale wrote:

    But, can you explain why you choose to re-iterate what I posted yesterday vis a vis Tom Friedman???

    You think he is factually accurate???

    No??? Then why did you post it???

  40. [40] 
    Michale wrote:

    Do you know what American Hating Omar's approval rating is???

    9%.... :D

    The America hating bitch would LOVE to have President Trump's approval ratings..

    Don't you love it when your own fealty to polls comes back and bites you on the ass??? :D

  41. [41] 
    Michale wrote:

    Liberal's Tweet Goes Viral: 'White People Love Dogs Because They Miss Owning Slaves'

    BBBWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

    This is the mentality of the Dumbocrat Party...

    I am betting that, with very few exceptions, EVERYONE here would agree with brain-dead moron Liberal..

    Forgive the redundancy of Brain Dead Moron Liberal...

  42. [42] 
    Michale wrote:

    That's yer Dumbocrat Party, Blathy..

    OWN IT...

  43. [43] 
    Balthasar wrote:

    But it wasn't a fascist rally.. Only a fascist would say that..It was a patriotic rally.

    Oh, so you think that it's PATRIOTIC to denigrate select members of a group you despise? Your definitions need work.

    Whatever you say, Nancy..

    Hey, listen, when you can change the House, you can change Nancy Pelosi. Get more than half of the caucus to vote for impeachment, and she'll be right there.

    Says the guy who doesn't condemn AntiFa's actions...

    Since when? Tell you what: I'll get more vocal about our thugs when you get more vocal about yours.

    the House is too busy chasing after President Trump and the phantom Russian Menace they refuse to actually do their jobs..

    They do their jobs, and can walk and chew gum, too. You'd be amazed. Again, what has the Senate done lately?

    You think he is factually accurate?

    Yep, but apparently not for the reason that you do.

  44. [44] 
    Balthasar wrote:

    Trump tries to walk back his crowd's "Send her back" chant:

    “I would say that I was not happy with it. I disagree with it, but, again, I didn’t say that. They did.”

    Sure, he was just caught up in the moment...

    Typical of him to blame it on the crowd.

  45. [45] 
    Balthasar wrote:

    It was an arresting scene: a predominantly white crowd of thousands, many in red “Make America Great Again” hats, encouraging a receptive president to illegally deport one of his political opponents, who is a black, Muslim American woman.

    That's fascism.

  46. [46] 
    Michale wrote:

    Oh, so you think that it's PATRIOTIC to denigrate select members of a group you despise?

    WHAT!!!!????

    Ya'all have been DOING THAT since President Trump announced his candidacy!!!

    BBBWWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

    Hey, listen, when you can change the House, you can change Nancy Pelosi. Get more than half of the caucus to vote for impeachment, and she'll be right there.

    So, in other words, you are saying Pelosi is a political animal and will just follow the optics and politics..

    OK...

    They do their jobs, and can walk and chew gum, too.

    Apparently... NOT.../

    That's fascism.

    No...

    https://fortunedotcom.files.wordpress.com/2017/08/gettyimages-830775558.jpg

    THAT is fascism..

    A Democrat AntiFa terrorist beating a crippled man in the head with a bar..

    THAT is fascism..

    And YOU don't condemn it..

    That makes YOU, by your own rules, a fascist..

    Where's your condemnation of the Democrat AntiFa terrorist attack in Tacoma??

    No where to be found...

    You are the fascist, son.. Live with that..

  47. [47] 
    Balthasar wrote:

    Ya'all have been DOING THAT since President Trump announced his candidacy!

    Denouncing Trump? Damn straight. As for the rest of you, shame on you.

    in other words, you are saying Pelosi is a political animal

    Duh. She's Speaker of the House.

    Apparently... NOT..

    So if the House doesn't pass the stuff that you want, it doesn't count? Can I do the same with the Senate?

    A Democrat AntiFa terrorist beating a crippled man in the head with a bar..

    Context. Was that man crippled? Was he trying to beat the other protestors, and got stopped? Context.

    You want me to condemn something out in Tacoma, while Trump's on national TV, being a fascist. Even he seems to sense that something was wrong, judging by his attempt to back-up today...

  48. [48] 
    Balthasar wrote:

    So tell me: if Trump just said "I am a fascist", would you still vote for him?

  49. [49] 
    Michale wrote:

    Denouncing Trump? Damn straight.

    AND demonizing and attacking his supporters..

    In other words, you have been " denigrating select members of a group you despise?"

    So why is it OK for YOU to do it, but abhorrent for OTHERS to do it??

    Can you answer that question??

    No, you cannot..

    Context.

    When you say "context" what you really mean is you want to mitigate and equivocate to avoid having to condemn the actions.. Because you CAN'T condemn Democrat AntiFa terrorists..

    Was that man crippled?

    He had a cane, you jackass!!

    You want me to condemn something out in Tacoma, while Trump's on national TV, being a fascist.

    Oh, so what you are saying is because you think President Trump is a facist, it's perfectly acceptable for a Democrat AntiFa terrorist to attack a government facility..

    Do you HONESTLY comprehend how far off the reservation you are??

    So tell me: if Trump just said "I am a fascist", would you still vote for him?

    If Biden said "I am a communist terrorist" would you still vote for him for POTUS???

    You really are a sad pathetic little man, aren't you..

    You play these games to avoid taking responsibility for how low and how Left your Dumbocrat Party has sunk..

    All these pathetic arguments are the same arguments you made in 2016..

    And you LOST...

  50. [50] 
    Michale wrote:

    What's so hilarious about this is ya'all condemn and attack President Trump and Trump supporters and yet ya'all are acting EXACTLY as ya'all accuse them of acting...

    And yer so enslaved by Party dogma and ideology, you can't even SEE it...

  51. [51] 
    Michale wrote:

    Wash away my troubles, wash away my pain
    With the rain in Shambala

    Wash away my sorrow, wash away my shame
    With the rain in Shambala

    Ah, ooh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah

    Everyone is helpful, everyone is kind
    On the road to Shambala

    Everyone is lucky, everyone is so kind
    On the road to Shambala

    Ah, ooh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah

    How does your light shine, in the halls of Shambala
    -Three Dog Night

    :D

  52. [52] 
    Michale wrote:

    Just because things can get so serious and we need a light hearted musical interlude... :D

  53. [53] 
    Michale wrote:

    Some folks are born made to wave the flag
    Ooh, they're red, white and blue
    And when the band plays "Hail to the chief"
    Ooh, they point the cannon at you, Lord

    It ain't me, it ain't me, I ain't no senator's son, son
    It ain't me, it ain't me, I ain't no fortunate one, no

    Some folks are born silver spoon in hand
    Lord, don't they help themselves, oh
    But when the taxman comes to the door
    Lord, the house looks like a rummage sale, yes

    It ain't me, it ain't me, I ain't no millionaire's son, no
    It ain't me, it ain't me, I ain't no fortunate one, no

    Some folks inherit star spangled eyes
    Ooh, they send you down to war, Lord
    And when you ask them, "How much should we give?"
    Ooh, they only answer "More! More! More!" yoh
    It ain't me, it ain't me, I ain't no military son, son
    It ain't me, it ain't me, I ain't no fortunate one, one

    -Creedence Clearwater Revival

    Thus concludes the musical interlude..

    We now return you to Dumbocrat Hate, Intolerance and Bigotry...

  54. [54] 
    Balthasar wrote:

    He had a cane, you jackass!

    Which he's holding as a weapon, jackass. You have no idea what that picture is, who it is, when it was taken, or under what circumstances.

    What you want to do is to distract away from the bright shiny hairpiece in the oval office, who's been kinda bad lately. That's your goal.

    You play these games to distract from how low and how far to the right your party has sunk. It's sad.

  55. [55] 
    Don Harris wrote:

    "Thus concludes the musical interlude."

    No- the lighters are out (okay, it's been awhile since I went to a show I know everyone uses their phones now).

    "The lunatic is in the hall.
    The lunatics are in my hall.
    The paper holds their folded faces to the floor
    and every day the paperboy brings more.

    And if the dam breaks open many years too soon
    and if there is no room upon the hill.
    And if your head explodes with dark forebodings too
    I'll see you on the dark side of the moon."

    Brain damage/eclipse
    -Pink Floyd

  56. [56] 
    Michale wrote:

    Which he's holding as a weapon, jackass.

    You paint your own little picture, just to justify Democrat terrorism and fascism..

    What a sad world you live in...

    What you want to do is to distract away from the bright shiny hairpiece in the oval office, who's been kinda bad lately. That's your goal.

    No.. What YOU want to do is avoid facing the reality that your Dumbocrat party is as hateful and intolerant and bigoted as you accuse others of being..

    You simply REFUSE to acknowledge that you Dumbocrats are terrorists..

    You play these games to distract from how low and how far to the right your party has sunk. It's sad.

    No, it's sad that you can't face the reality..

    On YOUR side, you have dog whistles and code words that you spin..

    On MY side I have the FACTS of terrorist attacks and fascism on the part of Democrats..

    You really are a disgusting human being are you that you condone such attacks on people who simply disagree with you politically..

    You refuse to even ACKNOWLEDGE Democrat AntiFa terrorism, let alone condemn it..

    You complain about WORDS..

    I am talking blatant and unequivocal TERRORISM committed by Democrat AntiFa...

    How pathetic...

  57. [57] 
    Michale wrote:

    I am talking blatant and unequivocal TERRORISM committed by Democrat AntiFa...

    And YOU can't condemn it..

    Why is that???

  58. [58] 
    Balthasar wrote:

    And YOU can't condemn it..Why is that?

    Because YOU want me to. You want to paint the entire democratic party as Antifa, when in fact its just regular moms & dads, trying to make it through their day. Here's a picture:
    https://static.seattletimes.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/01292017_rally3-1020x580.jpg
    Those folks are just walking, not being violent. And it's in Seattle? Where is Antifa?

    Those folks are the actual democrats. That's who you have to beat.

  59. [59] 
    Kick wrote:

    At the same debate, President Trump plays ALL of the times Dumbocrats hate on America hand claim America isn't so great and America runs concentration camps etc etc etc..

    What will the Dumbocrat candidate respond??

    The candidate should respond:

    It wasn't Democrats who ran around America and travelled to multiple foreign countries wearing a cheap hat with a slogan telling the world that America wasn't great, that was Donald Trump. Should everyone who purchased that hat or wore it to a campaign rally be told to leave America if they don't think it's great? Should Donald Trump have been asked to stay in Scotland when he wore that hat on foreign soil advertising to the entire world that America isn't a great nation?

    It wasn't a Democrat who got elected by repeatedly criticizing America, it was Donald Trump. Trump's campaign slogan told the entire world over and over, in rally after rally and speech after speech that America was no longer great. In Trump's inaugural address he spoke of drugs in America, gangs in America, poverty in America, America's lousy schools and rusted-out factories, and Trump described America's military as sadly depleted.

    So to every citizen across our great nation... a nation that has always been great, I'm telling you now: You are home. America is your home, a home which was founded by our fathers who dissented with the monarchy and declared our independence in our great Declaration and when listing those rights in our great Constitution made your Freedom of Speech our First Amendment. So don't you ever let anyone tell you to abandon those principles on which our Great American Experiment was founded.

    America is great; she has always been great, and while her People may not always agree on how to achieve that perfect union for America, an America that was founded on dissent and has been roundly criticized since inception by American presidential candidates, American presidents, pastors, suffragists, civil rights activists, soldiers, veterans, civil rights activists, and people from all walks of life and all political ideologies, don't you ever let anyone convince you that America isn't already a great nation, and don't you ever stop striving to make her a more perfect union. You are home.

    And scene. :)

  60. [60] 
    Michale wrote:

    Because YOU want me to.

    So, you are going to condone by silence an act of blatant terrorism by a Democrat AntiFa, SIMPLY because I want you to condemn it..

    So, if I asked you to condemn a child murderer, you wouldn't do so, JUST because I want you to...

    And you don't find that the LEAST bit pathetic???

    You are so enslaved by Party slavery, you can't even tell right from wrong without running it thru your Party filter..

    How pathetic..

  61. [61] 
    Michale wrote:

    You want to paint the entire democratic party as Antifa,

    And why not.

    YOU want to paint the entire Republican Party as Nazis..

    How is that any different?? Moron...

  62. [62] 
    Kick wrote:

    Michale

    Hell, the *ONLY* reason they won back the House in 2018 is ALL of the Dem candidates that made that happen ran as GOP-Lite....

    Bullshit. As has widely been reported and written about many, many times by CW in this very forum (for those who were paying attention), the fact happens to be that Democrats basically ran on "we will fight for your health care while the GOP is trying to kill it in the courts." That was how the Democrats won back the House. If you don't believe me, review the forum for all the articles written about the health care issue and the GOP's terminal problem with it.

    It was the GOP who ran claiming they would protect preexisting conditions... which the majority apparently found to codswallop because Trump and the GOP are becoming known as the pathologically lying Party. They might as well change their name to the Grand Old Pathological Party. No one believes them on health care, and Trump has again promised to kill Obamacare. Big mistake. :)

  63. [63] 
    Michale wrote:

    THAT is the point you can't seem to get thru that Party Slavery brain of yours..

    You act EXACTLY how you accuse the Right of acting..

    I have proven that SEVERAL times in this commentary alone..

    Everything you bitch and moan about the Right doing, YOU do...

    So, why should ANYONE take you seriously??? What credibility do you have when you act EXACTLY like what you condemn???

  64. [64] 
    Michale wrote:

    Shut the fuck up, Victoria..

    Yer nothing but a crack whore welfare case who had her children taken away because yer a hooker..

    Go fuck yourself..

  65. [65] 
    Kick wrote:

    Balthasar
    35

    Well, they are the elected representatives of large blue districts. But are they the 'face' of the Democrats? Hardly. If you'll notice, there are about 137 other democrats that have a say in the way that the house works.

    But you go ahead and work against those four, and we'll go after Trump, okay?

    Yes! All this that Balthasar said... except 231 other Democrats besides those four. :)

  66. [66] 
    Kick wrote:

    Michale
    50

    What's so hilarious about this is ya'all condemn and attack President Trump and Trump supporters and yet ya'all are acting EXACTLY as ya'all accuse them of acting...

    And yer so enslaved by Party dogma and ideology, you can't even SEE it...

    What's really hilarious about this is that Michael comes to this board near daily and condemns and attacks the posters on this forum individually and collectively and has been attacking President Obama and President Clinton and their supporters for years and years and spamming this board with right-wingnut bullshit and just making shit up about people he doesn't know.

    When somebody gets the best of him, he hurls names in their direction and attempts to silence them... EXACTLY what he's always whining about people trying to do to him.

    And Michael is so enslaved by the Trump cult dogma and ideology with his head so high up the Orange Asshole that he can't even SEE it. :D

  67. [67] 
    Kick wrote:

    Michale
    64

    Shut the fuck up, Victoria..

    I intend to do that... when Hell freezes over.

    Yer nothing but a crack whore welfare case who had her children taken away because yer a hooker..

    I thought we had agreed to stop talking about you wife and children.

    Go fuck yourself..

    You mad, Bro!?

  68. [68] 
    Kick wrote:

    Poor Jeffie Epstein... yet another Trump associate now residing in prison because the investigation into Trump, his modelling agency, and those he's associated with has dredged up the seediest of characters associated with "The Donald."

    Lock them up... lock them all up. I don't care what their political affiliation is if they had any part in the pedophilia and trafficking of children associated with Trump's modelling agency, Trump's friend with the rub and tug in Florida, Trump and Epstein's parties at Mar-a-Lago with underage girls, etc. Lock them all up.

  69. [69] 
    Balthasar wrote:

    Kick [67]: when Hell freezes over.

    That's what has Republicans running, Kick. That attitude. That's what Michale, and Trump are afraid of: that democrats will unite under one candidate.

    That'd be the death of them.

  70. [70] 
    ListenWhenYouHear wrote:

    Michale,

    For all of your insincere bravado that you try to project on here, you expose the truth when you post things like:

    Shut the fuck up, Victoria..

    Yer nothing but a crack whore welfare case who had her children taken away because yer a hooker..

    Go fuck yourself..

    You aren’t the patriotic he-man whose wisdom and understanding of world events are opening the eyes of misinformed liberals on a daily basis, no matter how many times you try to tell yourself (and us) that is the truth!

    You are an angry, unhappy man who sees the world changing in front of him in ways that seem foreign to him. When you think you are portraying confidence and strength on here, it typically comes off as insecurity and weakness. You taunt anyone who dares to differ in opinion with you as just spouting party rhetoric and accusing us of not thinking for ourselves. Every complaint against this administration or Trump is deflected with a counter “what-aboutism” featuring long past events that rarely mirror the events in question... and when you cannot find a line of deflection to use, our statements are ignored completely.

    Your rapid-fire over saturation of propaganda pieces to this site just make you look desperate to convince someone....anyone...even yourself....that you are right. And when we get tired of your dishonest attacks on the group and stand up to ya.... when we push back... you explode in rage!

    Kick didn’t dox you....you doxxed yourself. The fact that she is a woman seems to only make you angrier...which might tell ya something about yourself if you only took the time to think about it for a second.

  71. [71] 
    Kick wrote:

    Balthasar
    69

    That's what has Republicans running, Kick. That attitude. That's what Michale, and Trump are afraid of: that democrats will unite under one candidate.

    Yes, sir, the operative word there being "afraid;" they are very afraid. It's that fear and hatred that allowed a pathologically lying racist criminal money laundering compromised fraudulent deceitful treasonous sellout whore like Donald Trump to blow up the Republican Party and expose them for exactly who they are: the angry mob, united in hatred, who never "gave a rip" about the debt, deficits, ethics, or any number of things they claimed to endorse.

    That'd be the death of them.

    The GOP is already dead, and those among what is left of its festering carcass who believe they can beat down those Americans who have no intention of either leaving, keeping our mouths shut, or bowing down to the Orange Jackass are hereby on notice. We are home. :)

  72. [72] 
    Kick wrote:

    Russ
    70

    Nailed it, Russ! The whole thing... every word of it.

    Oh, I could say so much more, but I won't. Oh, scratch that, I would like to make a comment regarding the proverbial "heat" in the "kitchen" we here on the forum are always being bombarded with:

    Screw the kitchen; that ain't heat.
    You want to see heat? Welcome to Hell. ~ Kick

  73. [73] 
    ListenWhenYouHear wrote:

    Michale,

    (Moved from Monday’s comments)

    Why should I honor ANY congresscritter?? Especially ones who are bimbos and bitches???

    You don't seem to mind when they refer to YOUR President as "motherfucker"..

    Because acting like a sexist bigot only makes you look weak and pathetic and would likely mean that you know your arguments are B.S.

    Trump was called MF not during a press conference or in a tweet, it was said at a bar where the representative had been celebrating becoming a member of Congress. She was on her own time, and if you watch the video, doesn’t seem to realize the person asking the question was a reporter — or was just feeling too good to care at that point!

    And how sad that is your defense of his racist comments! (And it is racist, according to multiple legal decisions in work place harassment cases filed with the EEOC)

    How does disagreeing with the president make a woman a “bimbo”? What does her political views have to do with her sex life?

    I disagree with Trump too.

    Should I expect for you to start referring to me as “faggot” because of my beliefs?

    I ask only because you obviously think such a response to my political views is justified and deserved!

  74. [74] 
    ListenWhenYouHear wrote:

    Kick
    (This is moved from Monday’s chat...I never hit the refresh button or I would have realized everyone had moved on.).

    Does this sound like an intelligent law enforcement officer to you, Russ?

    FACT: Michael doxed himself multiple times.
    FACT: Michael doxed his wife multiple times.
    FACT: Michael doxed his grandchild.
    FACT: Michael doxed his children multiple times.
    FACT: All of this occurred long before I ever posted a single comment on this forum.

    Oh, I know it. I think he might have put the name of his business in a post years ago, as well. I remember thinking that that seemed an odd thing for someone who was supposedly former law enforcement to do, but that was his choice.

    *** I wonder why Michale hasn’t commented on the Republicans putting the brakes to the 9/11 Victims Fund getting renewed? So much for the GOP’s love for first responders.

  75. [75] 
    nypoet22 wrote:

    Let's everyone take a breath and count to ten, mmmkay? As i understand events, steedo crossed the line first by making a real life threat, though it appeared to be somewhat in jest (cage match?) Michale, you overreacted, own that please. Kick and russ, you guys piled on later, then things snowballed. No more about our real lives please.

  76. [76] 
    amello wrote:

    Well, ever since legalization I HAVE become an axe murderer. I've murdered several axes.

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