ChrisWeigant.com

Has Kim Jong Un Read Trump's Book?

[ Posted Monday, May 21st, 2018 – 17:26 PDT ]

Donald Trump supposedly wrote a book on how to be the world's best dealmaker. He didn't actually write it, of course (hence the "supposedly"), and it's even doubtful whether he's ever even read it through, cover to cover. He's not a big reading guy, to put it as politely as possible. But the thoughts contained within The Art Of The Deal were indeed Trump's, painstakingly collected by his ghostwriter. What one has to wonder right now, though, is whether North Korea's Kim Jong Un is following Trump's dealmaking script better than Trump -- because from outside appearances, this now seems to be the case. Perhaps, unlike Trump himself, Kim Jong Un actually read (and took to heart) The Art Of The Deal.

I certainly can't claim to have read Trump's book myself, but it is reportedly set up as a collection of dealmaking tips from the king of dealmakers himself. Some of these tips are quite basic, and Kim Jong Un currently seems to be using two of them in specific to gain the upper hand in negotiations with Trump: "never let the other guy know you want the deal more than he does," and: "always be ready to walk away from the table." Both of these are essential in dealmaking, Trump tells us, because if the party across the table from you knows you are desperate to deal and will accept just about anything rather than walking away from the deal, then he can (obviously) strike a much better deal for himself, while you are left with less in return.

Donald Trump has broken both these basic dealmaking rules already, much to Chairman Kim Jong Un's delight. Trump has shown how desperate he is to make this deal in many ways, even unto not-so-modestly (and quite openly, in fact) coveting a Nobel Peace Prize with his name on it. Trump needs a big foreign policy deal, because to date he hasn't managed to negotiate a single one. He has broken many previously-agreed-to deals, but the only foreign deal he has put together to his credit (after almost a year and a half in office) is one bilateral trade deal with South Korea (who, for obvious reasons, has a vested interest in keeping Trump happy right now). That's it. One trade deal with one country. Not much to brag about after a year and a half in office, is it?

Which is why Trump is so keen on a big, sweeping North Korea deal. Unlike the South Korea deal, if this could be achieved it would be a very big deal indeed. The rest of the world would be forced to take notice, probably in a somewhat-favorable way. Many have pointed out that one of the things Kim Jong Un is seeking is acceptance on the world stage as a legitimate leader, but few have pointed out the other side of this coin: Trump is almost as desperate as Kim Jong Un to be accepted as a world leader by the rest of the planet. Trump craves their respect in the same way he's always craved the respect of the elites in Manhattan (who have always seen Trump as an outer-borough boor). This is quite likely why Trump agreed to meet with Kim Jong Un in the first place, because such a summit would (if successful) give Trump worldwide respect, to some degree or another.

Trump's first big mistake, however, was in not realizing that for Kim Jong Un, the meeting itself (or even, as now seems possible, merely the concept of such a meeting) bestows legitimacy upon him, even absent an actual concrete deal. Kim Jong Un can now realistically cast himself in the same role as former leaders of the Soviet Union or the current leadership of China -- a nuclear power's leader, negotiating as an equal with the president of the United States. If Trump and Kim Jong Un meet, it will be called a "summit meeting" -- exactly as previous meetings between the U.S. and the U.S.S.R. or China were. Kim Jong Un will be elevated to this prestige just by meeting with Trump. No deal will be necessary for Kim Jong Un to walk away with this prize.

Trump's second big mistake, so far, was to be so transparent in his longing for a deal. He has tried to coyly remain aloof, saying things like: "A deal might happen, but it might not," as if he's not all that concerned about the prospects of success -- but so far he hasn't been very convincing. Basking in adoring crowds yelling: "Nobel! Nobel!" hasn't helped much, either.

Trump badly wants a deal because achieving one would justify his entire worldview of how he and he alone can do things differently than all the other politicians who came before him. Rather than hammering out all the myriad details of a complex deal before a summit meeting between leaders can take place, Trump will upend the model and meet face-to-face with Kim Jong Un at the start of the process. This will, Trump believes, cut through all the nonsense from the pointy-headed diplomats, because the two leaders will reach an agreement in a few hours' negotiation. Trump will emerge at the end of the conference with a deal in hand, and by doing so prove all his detractors wrong. "See how easy it was?" you can almost hear him boasting, even in advance. Also: "This is the best, most tremendous deal the world has ever seen," even if that is far from the actual truth.

The problem for Trump is now that Kim Jong Un knows full well how important the summit meeting and any prospective deal has become, to Trump. Trump's never going to walk away from the table now. If he did so, after such a hyped buildup, then the rest of the world would just laugh at him, because it would confirm their worst opinions about Trump -- that he is incompetent and that the summit was a really bad idea in the first place. This puts Trump on the wrong end of the dealmaking stick (according to his own book), because Trump wants the deal more than Kim Jong Un and Trump really doesn't want to walk away from the table.

Kim Jong Un obviously is aware of all this, because he has now changed his own bargaining position. He will not be discussing unilateral nuclear disarmament with Trump, because he never was going to agree to this in the first place. He dangled this prospect in front of Trump, but because Trump so eagerly took the bait, Kim Jong Un can now snatch it away -- leaving the best prospects for any deal to be struck at the summit of rather limited scope. Trump will not walk away with a Nobel-Prize-worthy deal, instead he will have to settle for some lesser joint statement about vague aspirational goals that might be agreed to in future negotiations. That's not exactly what Trump is hoping for, obviously, but it would be enough for Kim Jong Un to walk away from the table and claim complete success. By building his own expectations up so high, Trump set himself up to be disappointed, to put this another way.

Add to all of this the fact that Trump's advisors are openly admitting that Trump has almost zero interest in preparing for the summit meeting in any meaningful way. Trump famously does not read briefing books, and he has apparently shown little interest in learning the details of what America's goals with respect to North Korea really should be. Trump has unleashed the most belligerent of his advisors (John Bolton) to spout off in public what their strategy will be, which has only made the situation ten times worse. In fact, North Korea may now well demand that Bolton not be a party to any of the discussions at the summit, or else they will walk away from the table. At this point, it wouldn't surprise me in the least.

In other words, North Korea has taken the advice contained within The Art Of The Deal to heart, while Trump has apparently either forgotten his own advice or has badly bungled his bargaining position in complete contradiction to this advice. North Korea's Kim Jong Un has already scored a diplomatic coup by getting Donald Trump talking about meeting with him one-on-one, as an equal. Trump now obviously wants such a meeting much more than Kim Jong Un, which the North Koreans have already begun leveraging to change the parameters of what will even be discussed. After Kim Jong Un cancelled a planned meeting with South Korea's leader in protest of American B-52s being used in a joint U.S.-South Korean military exercise, Trump backed down and cancelled the B-52s. So much for this summit meeting being "without preconditions." The North Koreans set a precondition, and Trump blinked -- further proving how badly Trump wants this meeting. This also proves how far Trump will bend over backwards to avoid North Korea walking away from the table.

Rather than spending hours being briefed on North Korea and America's foreign policy goals, Trump might just benefit more by spending a few hours reading his own book, because at this point it seems he's forgotten some of the basics of dealmaking. He's making glaring errors his own book warned against, and we're still weeks away from any actual meeting. To avoid making further dealmaking blunders, Trump might just benefit from taking his own advice to heart. Because it is looking more and more like Kim Jong Un is the one who has recently read Trump's book, because of how masterful Kim Jong Un has been at using Trump's own advice against him.

-- Chris Weigant

 

Follow Chris on Twitter: @ChrisWeigant

 

41 Comments on “Has Kim Jong Un Read Trump's Book?”

  1. [1] 
    neilm wrote:

    The stupid party have their king, and it is all going as expected. He'll need a war soon to try to make himself popular and important. Iran might be a tough one though - likely to crash the markets and upset the Republican's owners. I'm guessing it is time to invade Granada again, or something like that.

  2. [2] 
    John M wrote:

    [1] neilm

    "Iran might be a tough one though - likely to crash the markets and upset the Republican's owners. I'm guessing it is time to invade Granada again, or something like that."

    Trump has 3 choices for going to war:

    1) North Korea: This option would be the most costly, however you want to cut it. In terms of lives lost, both civilian and American service members, financially, and in terms of domestic political support. But it would also be the easiest to justify, and the one with most allied support, even if we are dragging South Korea and Japan into it kicking and screaming, they would have almost no choice but to support whatever America does.

    2) Iran: This option would be the one having Bolton and the neocons salivating the most, along with the Israeli hardliners. It also has the advantage of at least having hard line right wing American domestic support. On the downside, it would also likely be the one most strongly opposed by both China and Russia, and lack any significant European, British or French support as well. Except for possibly Israel joining an American bombing campaign, we'd be fighting it totally alone by ourselves. It would also unleash a wave of international terrorism the likes of which we have never seen before.

    3) Venezuela: This would be the surprise dark horse candidate, but the one I would choose if I were Trump, especially given what he has said previously about the poor plight of the Venezuelan people fighting against oppression. It certainly would be the easiest or least costly in military terms by far. Though the effect on our relations with the rest of Latin America would be catastrophic, it would also probably garner the least amount of anxiety among the general domestic American public. Trump's version of Reagan's Grenada, but lacking international support.

  3. [3] 
    Chris Weigant wrote:

    neilm [1] -

    Now that you mention it, Granada has been getting rather uppity lately...

    Heh.

    John M [2] -

    OK, that was depressingly realistic. But how about Cuba? Bay of Pigs 2.0? Anyone? Bueller?

    Heh.

    Sorry, I should be taking this more seriously, I know...

    -CW

  4. [4] 
    Chris Weigant wrote:

    OK, finally answered comments back to last Thursday, so go check it out...

    ...especially hally826, whose first comment had to wait in the moderation queue all weekend long (sorry 'bout that...).

    http://www.chrisweigant.com/2018/05/18/program-note-65/#comment-119119

    -CW

  5. [5] 
    Chris Weigant wrote:

    More: I skipped Wednesday, but also worked back to last Mon. and Tues., for everyone's info...

    -CW

  6. [6] 
    Don Harris wrote:

    CW (4,5)-
    That should be that you answered SOME comments.

    Why won't you address the 20-30% of citizens that will not vote in 2018 and how just one third to one half of those citizens participating in One Demand in 2018 could demonstrate and create demand for small contribution candidates in 2020 and form a national organization to support small contribution candidates to counter the national strategy and organizations of the Big Money interests?

    Wouldn't it be better if those people voted in 2018 rather than stay home and if they did wouldn't this put pressure on the Democrats that get elected in 2018 to actually live up to more of their promises?

    This has all been explained over the last several weeks in multiple comments that you keep ignoring.

    Is it that you have no response that can counter the points I made?

    Or do you have the same problem with my comments on One Demand that Trump has with reading books?

  7. [7] 
    TheStig wrote:

    Trump's deal making paradigm is simplicity itself:

    Know Your Rube

    Over Promise

    Under Deliver (Cheat)

    Litigate...Litigate....Litigate

    Declare Victory

    Find new rube

    The problem with applying this procedure to N.Korea is the very first step. Trump doesn't know his rube-he is the rube.

    Have you ever noticed the uncanny physical resemblance between Trump and his mother? Warning: Disturbing Image...swallow and secure your beverage container before viewing!

    http://americannewsx.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/trumphair.png

  8. [8] 
    Mezzomamma wrote:

    Or maybe Yemen, under the guise of joining a regional coalition to put down a rebellion? It's a Muslim country, to keep the anti-Islam lot happy, the Saudis are already intervening there, so no Saudi oil would be cut off, and since the areas under attack are already starving, it shouldn't be too hard to proclaim 'victory'. And even if Iran is not, in fact, supporting the Houthi rebels, who cares about facts over propaganda?

  9. [9] 
    Balthasar wrote:

    re: Mzm [8] - Yemen almost makes too much sense. We even have a military base on the African horn, directly across from it, if I'm not mistaken.

    Trouble is, is that it's not on anyone's radar right now - the neocons are distracted beyond repair by the prospect of invading Iran, which has been a goal of theirs since puberty. They had her poster on the wall of their dorm rooms in college. Yemen's just a bad girl from the south side compared to their desire to invade princess Jasmine. It's a creepy obsession they've been stalking for several years, and Obama's agreement to "just be friends" drove them insane.

    On the other hand, Yemen and Venezuela aren't exactly as easy as they look. These would be very expensive forays with questionable ends. As Bush learned the hard way, the most important question is: what does the morning after look like?

  10. [10] 
    nypoet22 wrote:

    @don,

    CW is not required to respond to the same question multiple times. since you've asked it multiple times, i'll refresh your memory. his response is that he doesn't place donor-driven campaign finance reform very high on his priority list, and doesn't see it as very realistic. as it happens, this puts him squarely in line with most voters. while it's probably true that the participation of ten percent of the electorate in your group would have an impact, that's still over 20,000,000 people. once your membership demonstrates its viability and reaches one twentieth of its goal (i.e. one million), i'm sure CW would be happy to publish about it.

    JL

  11. [11] 
    ListenWhenYouHear wrote:

    TheStig [7]

    Great, can never UNSEE that!

  12. [12] 
    Kick wrote:

    Don Harris
    6

    Aren't you supposed to be busy bravely writing your own blog right now like you suggested?

    All this needs to get started is one brave reality-based blogger to inform citizens about this opportunity now.

    Serious Question: How is it that you expect anyone to take your repeated BS seriously if you don't?

    Asking for a friend. :)

  13. [13] 
    Kick wrote:

    neilm
    1

    He'll need a war soon to try to make himself popular and important.

    Yes, sir... and in lieu of an all out war, remember the object of the exercise, who is pulling the strings, and the many ways in which Syria could factor into the equation. :)

  14. [14] 
    Kick wrote:

    TS
    7

    The problem with applying this procedure to N.Korea is the very first step. Trump doesn't know his rube-he is the rube.

    Bingo... and simply extrapolate that fact and apply it to darn near everything in the Trump orbit. It's sad enough when the rubes fall victim to the con, but it's positively pathetic when the con falls victim to his own bullshit.

  15. [15] 
    Don Harris wrote:

    Nypoet-
    CW is not required to answer. And I am not required to stop asking.

    After all, Cw just recently commended Kamala Harris when she refused to take a non-answer. And CW has not addressed the 20-30% of those that would not vote in 2018 as described in the comment above and recent comments on some articles of the last few weeks and only started a conversation or two on One Demand which misinterpreted or misrepresented what One Demand is and has not responded to my follow up comments that pointed that out.

    Thank you for acknowledging that if 10% of the electorate participated it could have an impact.

    It is a possibility so it deserves to be part of the conversation because no matter how small the possibility so many small possibilities have actually happened in recent elections that all possibilities should be explored.

    It is an interesting standard that you propose for CW to write about One Demand. The whole point of trying to get someone such as CW to write about the idea is that people cannot participate if they don't know about the opportunity.

    I suppose it is possible that a million people could decide to participate without knowing that it exists, but I think the odds of citizens participating are better if they are informed by the media about the idea.

  16. [16] 
    Kick wrote:

    TS
    7

    Have you ever noticed the uncanny physical resemblance between Trump and his mother? Warning: Disturbing Image...swallow and secure your beverage container before viewing!

    When Scotland sends its people, they're not sending the best. They're sending people that have lots of problems and they're bringing those problems. They're bringing drugs, they're bringing crime...

  17. [17] 
    Don Harris wrote:

    Kick-
    Pretty sure me starting my own blog was someone else's idea.

    And it's you that don't take me seriously.

    And possibly CW. It is impossible to know for sure until CW actually addresses One Demand.

    But it appears from my perspective that it is also possible that he does take it seriously and is avoiding addressing it because he prefers be able to make the argument that citizens have no other choice than to vote for the Democrats.

    And what problem could you, CW or anyone possibly have with people that were not going to vote in 2018 participating in One Demand instead of staying home and wasting their vote?

    Should people only be encouraged to vote if they are going to vote for Democrats or Republicans?

  18. [18] 
    Don Harris wrote:

    And since this is a reality based blog should the reality that 20-30% and possibly more of citizens vote in presidential elections but do not vote in off year elections be ignored or addressed?

  19. [19] 
    Kick wrote:

    DH
    17

    Pretty sure me starting my own blog was someone else's idea.

    You seem oblivious to the fact that more than one person can have the same great idea. Why would you insist of others what you're not willing to do yourself? You lack the courage of your convictions, and there's a word for that... several words, in fact.

    And it's you that don't take me seriously.

    You mustn't take that personally, Don, it's just something about trolls.

    And possibly CW. It is impossible to know for sure until CW actually addresses One Demand.

    He already did.

    But it appears from my perspective that it is also possible that he does take it seriously and is avoiding addressing it because he prefers be able to make the argument that citizens have no other choice than to vote for the Democrats.

    And what problem could you, CW or anyone possibly have with people that were not going to vote in 2018 participating in One Demand instead of staying home and wasting their vote?

    You seem to have fallen victim to your own repetitive bullshit, Don, but more pathetic than that is that you appear to believe that others on this blog are as invested as you when they're simply not.

    Should people only be encouraged to vote if they are going to vote for Democrats or Republicans?

    Every American should be encouraged to vote regardless for whom they choose to vote, and every American should be encouraged to contribute to the candidates and causes they deem worthy whether or not Don Harris likes the amount they choose to contribute.

    Now bugger off, Don, your own blog is sorely in need of your brave input and rapt attention. :)

  20. [20] 
    Balthasar wrote:

    Interesting suggestion made tonight that the defenders of Trump are employing the "OJ Defense", that is, to keep the jury (and the public) focused on the techniques and biases of the investigators rather than on the guilt or innocence of the accused.

    Rachel asked a question last night that bears repeating: why are Republican committee chairmen who are clearly allied with Trump being allowed to see the names of undercover sources right in the middle of an on-going federal investigation, against all precedent and standard practice, especially since they know that to do so 'burns' that source permanently, perhaps allowing Trump defenders to preemptively undermine that source if (his or her) testimony is ever needed?

    Perhaps that source's information wasn't all that helpful and they reason that it was a one-off use of that source anyway, so why not give the GOP goon squad a big fat bone to chew on for awhile.

    It's one explanation for an otherwise odd and ill-advised capitulation by the Justice Department.

  21. [21] 
    goode trickle wrote:

    DH-

    Are you really sure you want CW to write about one demand?

    Would he not be obligated to point out the multiple flaws with your website?

    Putting aside JL's standard for publication by CW, the even lower standard would be having a current website to begin with... It does not inspire to go some place to read about your movement only to have to make substitutions for the year.

    It is not that hard to take your source code and do a find and replace in word of all things and upload the revised copy. you have been doing the website update for a really, really long time now.

    Perhaps taking 25% of your time spent here and dedicating it to putting fresh information and "news" up on your site might also help.

    Fun fact, according to Alexa your site ranks 18,012,373 in the world. You don't even get enough monthly traffic to cause a blip in the tracking data.
    https://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/onedemand.com

    Politics, Movements, and Political punditry reputations are not a "talk about me and I will build it" kind of thing. Go out and put some effort into your own movement and then perhaps CW will talk about you... even if he still doesn't want to talk about you at least your whining about his lack of wanting to talk about it would be justified. As it stands now it is not...

  22. [22] 
    goode trickle wrote:
  23. [23] 
    nypoet22 wrote:

    @don,

    i realize you see a similarity between your own questions and those of senator kamala harris. however, there are a few key differences between the questioning engaged in by kamala harris and yourself:

    1. she was refusing to accept an intentionally evasive answer, you are refusing to accept an answer that indicates genuine disinterest.

    2. she was asking on behalf of the forty million residents of california, whom she represents. you were asking on behalf of yourself, your idea, and perhaps the ten friends and family members who have signed up on your website.

    3. she was asking in the context of a public hearing, after which she was obliged to vote, based on the answers to her questions, to confirm or deny a presidential appointment to the federal government. you were asking in the comments section of a journalist's blog.

    4. she was asking with some political leverage and public support behind her. you have been asking with very little of either in your corner.

    maybe someday soon you'll have thousands or even millions of members and make your dream a reality. but before any serious journalist takes you and one demand seriously, you need to demonstrate in the real world that your organization (not bernie sanders, not ralph nader, not cynthia nixon, you) can get a significant part of the way there without their assistance.

    and sure, CW has indicated that he'll tolerate your incessant kvetching and solicitation, but it seems to me like a gigantic waste of your time and effort.

    JL

  24. [24] 
    Mezzomamma wrote:

    Balthazar--I wasn't being entirely serious, just cynical, going on the assumption that any dream war will do.

  25. [25] 
    Mezzomamma wrote:

    Re [24] The word dream should have a line through it--it was there in the preview. Any war will do.

  26. [26] 
    Don Harris wrote:

    Kick (19)-
    Total lack of comprehension unworthy of detailed response.

  27. [27] 
    Don Harris wrote:

    GT (21)-
    Yes, I am sure I want CW to write about One Demand because even if he included the present shortcomings of the website he would also have to actually write about the IDEA of One Demand. That actually is how politics works and movements are started- with an idea. They don't start with a million participants and then get publicity.

    As for the idea, that is the part that is usually left out of comments that concentrate on the shortcomings of the website, the lack of current support or candidates, that I am not doing what you think I should do even though you have no idea what else I do or have done, etc.- pretty much any excuse to not discuss the idea or for CW not to inform citizens about this opportunity.

  28. [28] 
    Don Harris wrote:

    Nypoet (23)-

    1. Have you read CW's comments on One Demand?

    They are the definition of evasive. They misrepresented or misinterpreted what One Demand is to fit the standard argument against anything that might challenge the status quo. And he did not respond to my follow up comments pointing that out.

    2. How many people support an idea has no bearing on the content of the idea. Isn't making this statement also just an excuse to be evasive?

    3. An appropriate context for both of us Harrises.

    4. see 2.

    Your conclusion just basically repeats the same ridiculous standard in your original comment which is still bullshit.

  29. [29] 
    Kick wrote:

    Don Harris
    26

    Total lack of comprehension unworthy of detailed response.

    You're fooling no one but yourself alone, Don, if you buy into the ridiculous fantasy that your utter nonsensical repetitive bullshit is the least bit complicated, but you couldn't swing a cat on this blog without hitting a commenter who didn't agree that your verbal diarrhea was "unworthy of detailed response." *LOL*

  30. [30] 
    BashiBazouk wrote:

    I suspect Don has basically given up on One Demand and it has become merely a vehicle for a twisted ego trip to try and get Chris to acknowledge him. I told him what's wrong with linking between his old url and current one a month ago but the link in his name is still dead even though it's a 20 second fix at best. Then try to search for One Demand on google. His site is not findable unless you know the .suffix. Burried in all the On Demand tv links, One Demand Computer Support and IT Help comes up as well as His One Demand - The Walrus but no political site way past it's best buy date in the first 20 pages of results...

  31. [31] 
    BashiBazouk wrote:

    Actually that's not true, there are links to news stories about the One Demand of Occupy Wall street. So google does find political links way past their best buy dates, just not Don's...

  32. [32] 
    Don Harris wrote:

    Bashi-
    see 27.

  33. [33] 
    Don Harris wrote:

    Kick-
    I do not expect to get approval from the majority of commenters here.

    You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink if he's used to drinking the koolaid.

    The fact that the commenters keep repeating the same old excuses to try to get me to keep responding to the excuses which have been responded to many times while avoiding the issues confirms that the commenters do not have any valid arguments against the issues.

    But don't worry, I don't take it personally. I actually find the cowardice from the commenters quite amusing.

    It keeps me entertained while I wait for CW to show the courage to step up to the plate.

    On the other hand, the refusal of CW to address One Demand and the 20-30% of presidential election voters that will not vote in 2018 with a complete conversation instead of the same old excuses to avoid addressing One Demand and the 2018 non-voters is not amusing.

    It is disappointing and disgraceful for someone claiming to present a reality based blog to ignore the reality that One Demand does exist as well as the idea, that many facets of it have been proven out recently (such as taking on establishment candidates in the primaries, the increases in small contributions and public perception that small contributions can work), all the "impossible" things that have actually happened in 2016 and since and that 20-30% or more of citizens do not vote in off year elections.

  34. [34] 
    nypoet22 wrote:

    @don,

    i had a comment swallowed up by the filters, and probably just as well. the main idea is that in order to convince people that your idea is worth discussing, you need to stay positive and do a better job of marketing. that part is your responsibility, not everybody else's, and certainly not CW's.

    the one million figure was arbitrary, maybe just start with a few thousand, but numbers do matter, because they prove that people are (or aren't) interested. if you search for advice on successful marketing, two of the most common suggestions are exactly what CW and bashi mentioned, do a regular blog/podcast, and keep a well-maintained website. also prominent are using social media and finding a receptive audience. browbeating a non-receptive audience will get you nowhere. so, take our advice or don't, but whatever the tone, be aware that for the most part it's intended to be helpful. if you don't take it to heart, you've only yourself to blame for the results.

    JL

  35. [35] 
    nypoet22 wrote:
  36. [36] 
    Don Harris wrote:

    Nypoet-
    Just because I don't take advice doesn't mean I don't consider it. If I find it helpful I have followed the advice.

    Whether it is a million or a thousand, the number is not relevant.

    There is no browbeating going on here, at least from me.

    When CW gives a reason why something should be supported, such as 60% of citizens think marijuana should be legal, I ask why that same standard should not apply to One Demand as 80% of citizens want the Big Money out of politics.

    The reality is that many people do not take someone commenting or that they never heard of seriously. But if that same person is written about by someone like CW, then people do take it seriously.

    For example, remember when CW wrote about Not One Penny? Several commenters said what a great idea.

    I said it wouldn't work and it didn't. But I also said that it was worth mentioning and trying as is One Demand for the same reasons.

    But what if I had never commented on One Demand and proposed Not One Penny in a comment? And what if CW had not written about Not One Penny but did write about One Demand?

    The comments on either may have been very different.

    Whether or not I have a blog is not relevant to whether CW should address this issue.

    CW claims a reality based blog so it is appropriate to point out when he is ignoring reality. Or are the 20-30% that vote in presidential elections but don't vote in off year elections and the 40% that don't vote at all not real people?

    If you prick them- do they not say OUCH?

  37. [37] 
    nypoet22 wrote:

    @don,

    the rest of us don't think you're being very realistic at all about your idea's chances of success. yes, if you can convince 50-75 million people to vote based on your idea, it might work. but getting to that number requires a coherent strategy for winning followers. CW should discuss what he wants to discuss. he has made it clear that he's not interested in your organization, and doesn't consider it important enough to spend a column commenting on. this is his blog, and that's his decision. if you want him to change his mind about you, the way to do it is by marketing your idea elsewhere and gathering enough followers so you can't be ignored. currently you can be ignored and are being ignored.

    7,542,753 people voted for Kamala Harris.
    0 people voted for Don Harris.

    that's why presidential nominees can not ignore her questions, and anybody who feels like it can ignore yours.

    JL

  38. [38] 
    Don Harris wrote:

    Support for an idea has no bearing on the content of the idea. No matter how many times or in whatever way you repeat statements about support it is still not relevant.

    And one more time- people can't support it if they don't know about it. That could be why so many have advised me to write and submit articles, contact journalists, activists, politicians, etc., which I have done and continue to do as advised.

    CW can decide at any point to address One Demand with a complete conversation and the reality of the 20-30% that do not vote in off year elections. I intend to keep encouraging and challenging him to do so.

    As he only provided comments on One Demand that misinterpret or misrepresent was One Demand is, I cannot know what, if anything, he would feel is good about One Demand and what could be improved.

    And I believe he has a responsibility to remain consistent and should be prepared to explain why when he is not consistent such as the example of why 60% support is enough to make marijuana a winning issue and 80% of citizens wanting the money out of politics is not enough public interest to make it worth exploring a possible solution that you acknowledged could have an impact if citizens participated.

  39. [39] 
    nypoet22 wrote:

    @don,

    i strongly disagree - support for an idea has a lot to do with its content. if people don't support an idea, perhaps something in the content is lacking. if something in the content is not lacking, perhaps it's something in the marketing that is lacking. if something in the marketing is lacking, that's the responsibility of the idea's supporters to fix, not the responsibility of everyone else to overlook.

    As to CW's comments, he did not mis- or in any other way represent your idea, he simply said he wasn't all that interested in it, and advised you on better ways to market it so people eventually would be interested. he's actually been incredibly consistent in that stance, which is why you haven't yet been banned from this site for trolling the blog's owner and soliciting its members.

    good luck in your endeavors, and i really do hope you get your act together and build one demand into something worth supporting.

    JL

  40. [40] 
    Don Harris wrote:

    One problem with your theory on support relating to content when it comes to One Demand- if people don't know about the idea then they can't possibly find the content to be lacking because they don't know what the content is.

    Another problem is if the marketing is lacking then it is up to the supporter(s) of the idea to fix. And one way that is accomplished is by contacting people in the media about the idea and another is commenting in a public forum such as the comments section here.

    That CW misinterpreted and misrepresented what One Demand is is not an opinion- it is a fact. So CW has not said he is not interested in One Demand, he has said he is not interested in something else.

    Whatever advice he gave was advice for something else.

    For example, CW said that One Demand was calling for the Democrats to unilaterally disarm. That is not true. There is plenty of money available through small contributions, so it not disarmament- just a different and completely possible source of funding. And citizens can use One Demand on any party or candidate so it clearly does not call for only the Democrats to unilaterally disarm.

    CW also repeated the often made claim here that there are no small contribution candidates so until there are there is no point in discussing One Demand.

    This is clearly a misinterpretation of how One Demand is designed to work and a misunderstanding about how politics works. The organization to create and demonstrate demand for and provide support for small contribution candidates is what needs to come first.

    "Power concedes nothing without a demand."
    -Cynthia Nixon

    Both Our Revolution and Brand New Congress began without any candidates and set up the organizations to create and demonstrate demand and provide support for the candidates first.

    I have and will continue to not do everything perfectly, but as demonstrated in this and many other comments I am not the only one that needs to get his act together. And I can't find out what needs to be done to improve One Demand from CW if he is commenting and advising on something else and not One Demand.

    And a reality based blog that ignores the reality of 20-30% or more of presidential election voters that do not vote in off year elections should be called out for ignoring reality.

    And it is possible that I have not been banned from the site because I am expressing my opinion in the comments section provided for that purpose and CW wants consider different opinions and ideas.

    But just considering an idea and making a summary judgement based on misinterpretations is not enough for a reality based blogger- at least not in my opinion.

  41. [41] 
    nypoet22 wrote:

    @don,

    i've read all of CW's comments and did not encounter anything factually inaccurate. if you can cite and provide the permalink to whatever it is you're talking about, and explain what specific statement of fact you think is untrue, i'll consider it. otherwise, your argument looks a lot like the "no true scotsman" fallacy.

    also, today's thread is about the war of 1812, and is not even remotely related to campaign finance. kindly refrain from any further comments there.

    JL

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