Friday Talking Points -- Rightwing Heads Exploding
New monthly employment numbers were released today showing a surprisingly-high 353,000 new jobs were created in January. The stock market is currently setting new all-time highs. The American economy has recovered from COVID far faster and far better than all other major countries, in fact. Inflation has come back down, gasoline prices are down, and wages are up (growing faster than inflation). Signups for Obamacare hit another record this year (outpacing last year's record by five million!) and America has the lowest uninsured rate in history. Domestic oil production is also setting records. So what are conservatives obsessed with in reaction to all this good news? Taylor Swift. No, really....
The right is losing its collective mind (what remains of it, that is) over ever-wilder conspiracy theories they have ginned up against Swift and her paramour Travis Kelce. We dove into this whole subject yesterday, so we won't rehash it all except to note the most amusing of the pearl-clutchers on the right. Newsmax host Greg Kelley had a rather unique take on Swift's legions of fans:
They are totally over the top worshipping this woman. Have you seen any of the pictures of her in concert? I wouldn't go myself. I don't do that kind of thing anymore. But I think what they call it is, they're elevating her to an idol. Idolatry. This is a little bit what idolatry, I think, looks like. And you’re not supposed to do that. In fact, if you look it up in the Bible, it's a sin! So, I don't like that.
Hoo boy. Has he never seen a Trump rally? You want to talk about some Grade-A idolatry? At least Taylor can sing....
The proof of precisely how much projection this truly is came in a Rolling Stone headline, in fact: "Trump Allies Pledge 'Holy War' Against Taylor Swift." Holy war? Seriously? That smacks more of Biblical idolatry than anything Taylor or Travis have done -- but they don't see such obvious irony.
A while back, when her "Eras" tour began, many news organizations started putting reporters on the "Taylor Swift beat." She was newsworthy, as was the phenomenon of her fans' devotion. She singlehandedly boosted not just local economies with her tour, she added billions to the American economy as a whole. She is a billionaire in her own right, and she has earned every dollar of it with her sheer talent. But while this media scrutiny has provided a steady stream of stories on Taylor's doings, the past week saw an explosion of coverage, as heads began exploding in the conservative universe. Here's just one example, from today's offerings: "Pentagon To MAGA World: You Need To Calm Down Over Taylor Swift." From the article:
The claims by Fox News and far-right influencers that pop star Taylor Swift is part of a Pentagon "psychological operation" to get President Joe Biden reelected, and somehow rig the Super Bowl to benefit Kansas City Chiefs tight end (and Swift's boyfriend) Travis Kelce, has been met with forehead slaps in the national security world.
"The absurdity of it all boggles the mind," said one senior administration official, granted anonymity because they were not authorized to comment publicly on the matter.
But then absurdity is the bread and butter of the rightwing, these days. Case in point: we've been waiting all week for the Senate negotiators to release the text of the deal they are trying to strike on border security and immigration issues, which was the Republicans' "ask" in a larger bill that will provide military aid to Ukraine and Israel. Again: this entire effort has been driven by Republicans. They have President Joe Biden in a unique position, since Biden is pushing hard for the military aid. So he's ready to accept things that Democrats abhor, in exchange. Republicans will get many of the items on their wish list for border control and immigration -- an agenda they've been fighting to pass for years now. Democrats are just going to have to hold their nose and vote for it to get the Ukraine and Israel aid passed.
In fact, Republicans have been screaming that there is a crisis on the border pretty much since Biden took office. "Crisis! Invasion!" they cry. Immediate action is required, and a border bill must pass in order to solve the crisis. Except that now Donald Trump has weighed in and told his lackeys in Congress to kill the deal -- since if it passed it would be a political feather in Biden's cap. Trump wants the crisis to continue unabated for another entire year, just so he can campaign on how terrible it all is. Which, you've got to admit is cynical, hypocritical, and more than a little bit absurd. But that's today's Republican Party for you.
Not every Republican has fallen into line with Trump's attempt to kill the bill. Senator James Lankford, who has been the chief GOP negotiator trying to put the deal together, had some sharp words for his fellow Republicans:
"Republicans four months ago... locked arms together and said, 'We're not going to give you money for this. We want a change in law,'" Lankford said on Fox News Sunday. "A few months later, when we're finally getting to the end, they're like, 'Oh, just kidding. I actually don't want a change in law because it's a presidential election year.'"
While Trump is urging Republicans to tank their best shot at getting border policies that they wrote passed, the House is about to impeach the secretary of Homeland Security, for the "high crime or misdemeanor" of not being a Republican. Rather than actually working to get their own policies passed and implemented by a Democratic president, they instead are happy to just toss red meat to the MAGA base with a completely baseless and absurd impeachment. Articles of impeachment passed out of committee by a party-line vote and it is rumored that they'll get a floor vote in the House next week. However, it may not actually work -- already one Republican representative has publicly said he's going to vote "no," which means if two others join him the impeachment will fail. So we'll have to see how it all plays out -- maybe Speaker Johnson won't even bring it up for a vote, if he realizes it's going to fail?
Even if the House does impeach Alejandro Mayorkas, the Senate would be under no obligation to hold a trial -- they could just send it to a committee (to die) or even pass a motion that just dismisses the charges without even bothering with a trial.
It was a rather quiet week for Trump's legal problems, as we all await action from the appeals court which heard Trump's immunity appeal almost four weeks ago. This was supposed to be an expedited ruling, but instead is just playing into Trump's plan to delay all his trials until after the election, so it is more than a little disappointing.
It was reported this week (in campaign finance filings) that Team Trump spent a whopping $55 million on his legal fees last year. Trump himself seems to be peeved with the $83.3 million jury judgment against him in his second E. Jean Carroll lawsuit, and is now seeking new lawyers to represent him in the appeals. But he's not exactly making a good case to entice good legal representation, posting: "Any lawyer who takes a TRUMP CASE is either 'CRAZY,' or a TRUE AMERICAN PATRIOT." Um, seriously? Calling your lawyers "CRAZY" before they even sign up to work for you? That doesn't seem to be a big argument in his favor, does it?
The other big news from one of Trump's criminal cases is the deepening of the mess surrounding Atlanta prosecutor Fani Willis. She admitted, in an extensive court filing this week, that she had been having a romantic relationship with one of her team of prosecutors. They both avoided having to testify in his divorce proceeding this week (he reached a settlement just before the deadline), but that's not going to be the final word on the issue. Nobody knows how this is all going to shake out, but people are already speculating that this pretty much guarantees that Trump's RICO trial (the most extensive of the charges against him) will likely not even begin until after the election. It's an open question whether Willis will still be working on the case when (if?) it ever does get to court, which is pretty disappointing (since she is an expert at RICO cases).
And we end with some breaking news (which was reported while this was being written): President Biden ordered the U.S. military to strike back at Iranian-backed militias in Iraq and Syria, in response to an earlier attack in Jordan that left three American servicemembers dead. Biden was present at Dover Air Force Base while the remains of the soldiers were returned to America, and the counterattacks began shortly thereafter. This is a developing story, so we expect further details of the attacks to emerge soon.
It certainly isn't a unique situation, since plenty of shameless Republicans have been attempting the same snow job, but in this case it was the Democrat's response to it that was impressive indeed.
Here's the setup to the story (which is worth reading in full, as she continues squirming for quite a while as the reporter presses the issue rather hard):
Rep. Maria Salazar, R-Fla., was confronted about the posturing during an interview with CBS News Miami, when Facing South Florida host Jim DeFede questioned her presentation of a $650,000 check meant to support small businesses at a Florida International University ceremony last month, HuffPost reports.
"You voted against the bill that gave the money that you then signed a check for and handed and had a photo op," DeFede said. "The Consolidated Appropriations Act of 2023, right?"
Salazar joined almost every other House Republican in voting against the $1.7 trillion government funding bill in 2022. She told DeFede, however, that she could not recall the vote.
Strange how those memory lapses work, isn't it? DeFede went on to ask about other projects she had touted where the money came from bills she had voted against, but it seems she couldn't remember any of the details.
Wasting no time at all, the Democrat who is challenging Salazar for her seat cut an ad highlighting the blatant hypocrisy:
Rep. María Elvira Salazar's Democratic opponent attacked her in a video just days after the congresswoman couldn't recall the House votes she cast during an interview with a South Florida TV station.
In a campaign video titled "Salazar Lied" released Thursday, Democrat Lucia Báez-Geller slammed the congresswoman for voting against an estimated $24 million in federal funding for her district -- the topic of a contentious interview Salazar had with CBS News Miami's Jim DeFede earlier this week.
. . .
The video from the Báez-Geller campaign lists a variety of projects the money funded in the district, including a mental health facility expansion, a community health center and a police department upgrade.
"We felt it very disrespectful and dishonest that she's trying to pull the wool over people's eyes," Báez-Geller said. "And so we just actively came together to... make sure that her voters know that she's taking credit for projects that she voted against."
That's the way to hit back! Point out the lie right away! Don't let Republicans get away with this con job -- turn it into campaign fodder instead!
For doing so with lightning speed, Lucia Báez-Geller is our Most Impressive Democrat Of The Week. Well done!
[Since she is a candidate for office, our standing policy is not to link to campaign websites, so you'll have to search Lucia Báez-Geller's contact information out for yourself if you'd like to let her know you appreciate her efforts.]
We hate to say it, but is Nancy Pelosi losing it?
Last Sunday, Pelosi was being interviewed on CNN and had a rather odd take on the protesters in America who are pushing Democrats to call for a cease-fire between the Israelis and Palestinians. Here is the story, for those who didn't notice it at the time:
Representative Nancy Pelosi, Democrat of California and the former House speaker, on Sunday called for the F.B.I. to investigate protesters demanding a cease-fire in the Israel-Hamas conflict, suggesting without evidence that some activists may have ties to Russia and President Vladimir V. Putin.
"For them to call for a cease-fire is Mr. Putin's message," Ms. Pelosi said during an interview on CNN's State of the Union. "Make no mistake, this is directly connected to what he would like to see. Same thing with Ukraine. It's about Putin's message. I think some of these protesters are spontaneous and organic and sincere. Some, I think, are connected to Russia."
When pressed on whether she believed some of the demonstrators were "Russian plants," Ms. Pelosi said: "Seeds or plants. I think some financing should be investigated. And I want to ask the F.B.I. to investigate that."
When reporters contacted her office for some sort of explanation, their response was to point to a social media post from a Columbia University political science professor which just said that Putin "benefits from" the war in Gaza -- which is a completely different thing than "financing American protesters."
Then a different video appeared, of Pelosi being harassed by protesters at her own house (as she's trying to get into her vehicle), where she had another rather strange reaction:
Former House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, D-Calif., was blasted on social media after a video surfaced from October in which she told pro-Palestinian protesters from Code Pink to "go back to China" where their "headquarters is."
So which is it, Nancy? Are Palestinian protesters operatives of China, or of Russia? It'd be pretty hard for them to be both at the same time, right?
Pelosi has offered zero evidence for any of this, it should be noted. Which is why we asked whether she is losing it or not. This seems nothing more than free-floating paranoia, in fact. Maybe it is time for her to step down from her seat in Congress?
We say this in sorrow, we should add. Pelosi was the strongest and most effective speaker of the House in a very long time and we have always been a big fan of hers (for the most part). But to toss around accusations of foreign influence about people exercising their First Amendment rights is a little beyond the pale, at least without any sort of evidence to back such a serious allegation up.
For doing so -- and for apparently being confused as to which foreign country she's making the accusation about -- Nancy Pelosi was our Most Disappointing Democrat Of The Week this week.
[Contact Representative Nancy Pelosi on her House contact page, to let her know what you think of her actions.]
Volume 738 (2/2/24)
There are two big themes this week, neither of which addresses the Republican heads currently exploding over Taylor Swift (we felt this was unnecessary, since we trust the Swifties to easily handle ridiculing the tinfoil-hattery being thrown her way right now). Besides, it's just too easy a shot, at this point.
Instead, we are concentrating on the stench of hypocrisy emanating from Republicans over the border deal they've been pushing for years -- and are now disavowing, now that Trump has taken a stand against it. And then we'll move on to a few cheerful takes on the economy.
Enjoy, and as always, use responsibly.
An ideological 180
Put Republican hypocrisy on full display.
"Republicans are apparently suffering from topical amnesia right now, as they have begun to parrot Donald Trump in claiming that 'no new laws' are needed for President Biden to control the southern border. That's strange, because that's not what they all used to say -- while Trump was president. Here is Ted Cruz, from 2019, for instance:"
I will continue to work tirelessly in Congress to convince my Democratic colleagues that we have a serious crisis on the border, and that they need to work with Republicans and take action now... [Congress not acting is] irresponsible, it's unjust and it's heartless to ignore this ongoing crisis.
"That was four years ago, again: while Trump was president. Now Cruz is singing a different tune, saying no new legislation is even necessary. Donald Trump snapped his fingers and demanded that the emerging Senate deal be killed -- so he can campaign on the issue and deny Biden a legislative victory -- and Cruz dutifully pulled an ideological 180 on the issue. Strange how that works, isn't it?"
From the horse's mouth
Cruz, of course, wasn't the only Republican saying they needed a new law back then.
"You want more proof? Here is Donald Trump himself, while he was president, from 2018:"
The only long-term solution to the crisis, and the only way to ensure the endurance of our nation as a sovereign country, is for Congress to overcome open-borders obstruction.
"Trump himself wasn't just calling for new legislation, he was openly admitting the border was in crisis on his watch. This is also something that has gone down the Memory Hole for Republicans now, as they insist the border problems began under Biden. They didn't. That's a fact even Donald Trump used to admit."
White House chimes in
Speaker Mike Johnson is leading the pack of Trump sycophants in Congress, as he announced the Senate border deal would be dead on arrival in the House. White House spokesman Andrew Bates pointed this out in a strategy memo that got leaked to Politico. Here's his talking point:
Despite arguing for six straight years that presidents need new legal authority to secure the border, and despite claiming to agree with President Biden on the need for hiring more Border Patrol agents and deploying new fentanyl detection equipment, Speaker Johnson is now the chief impediment to all three.
Strongest in the world
This is taken from Joe Biden's official statement after the jobs report came out today:
America's economy is the strongest in the world. Today, we saw more proof, with another month of strong wage gains and employment gains of over 350,000 in January, continuing the strong growth from last year. Our economy has created 14.8 million jobs since I took office, unemployment has been under 4 percent for two full years now, and inflation has been at the pre-pandemic level of 2 percent over the last half year. It's great news for working families that wages, wealth, and jobs are higher now than before the pandemic.
Things are getting better
This one was inspired by Democratic strategist Simon Rosenberg's newsletter (which was excerpted in an article in Salon, to give full credit where it is due).
"America has the best job market since the 1960s. Joe Biden has seen almost 15 million new jobs created under his watch -- the highest number of any American president ever. The stock market is setting new all-time records. Our G.D.P. grew a robust 3.3 percent last quarter, consumer sentiment is rising, and the COVID inflation spike has ended. Prices are falling and wages are increasing. We have the lowest rate of uninsured Americans in history, and five million more people signed up for Obamacare this year than they did last year -- both of which were all-time highs. Domestic oil production is at a record amount -- in 2023 the U.S. produced more oil than any country has in any year in history. Things have gotten a whole lot better under Joe Biden as he's worked to solve the economic mess Trump left behind. The American economy is booming right now, and more and more people are seeing the good effects of it."
Renewable energy taking off
This is just one of 30 (!) things Joe Biden has done or is in the process of doing that were itemized in an exhaustive list from Politico (which is well worth reading in full).
Renewable energy growth has ramped up across the United States. Electricity generation from renewable energy sources -- including wind, solar and hydropower -- surpassed coal-fired generation in the electric power sector for the first time in 2022, making it the second-biggest source behind natural gas generation. Renewables also passed nuclear power generation for the first time in 2021 and widened that gap the next year. The [Inflation Reduction Act is] also spurring a wave of private sector investment in U.S. clean energy manufacturing facilities for solar, wind and electric vehicle parts, the majority of which will be located in Republican congressional districts represented by lawmakers who voted against the bill.
Donald Herbert Hoover Trump
Joe Biden is apparently making a pretty good case for himself in speeches he's been giving to donors. He is reportedly drawing a stark contrast between his leadership and what the country could expect if Donald Trump gets a second term. And he's taking a page from Trump's "playground bully" playbook, just to get under Trump's skin.
"President Biden is pointing out that Donald Trump is now rooting for an economic crash to happen, just to improve his chances in the election. Biden called this 'close to un-American,' which seems pretty accurate. And Biden also used a term to describe Trump being only the second president in history to actually lose jobs during his term -- a name that Trump already dislikes. So don't just use Trump's name, folks, call him what he really is: 'Donald Herbert Hoover Trump.' Especially because it annoys him so much!"
-- Chris Weigant
Follow Chris on Twitter: @ChrisWeigant
Cross-posted at: Democratic Underground
Ms. Pelosi is merely acting and talking like a lot of commenters in this very blog. Which is to say that she thinks people who disagree with her are automatically echo-chamber imbeciles. I know. I deal with that sort around here all the time, of late. :(
As for Taylor Swift, aren't her fans fairly equally distributed amongst Republicans and Democrats? Hmmm ...
I think this next presidential election will come down to what it usually does - the economy and, most importantly, which party does best in stewarding the economy in a way that benefits the nation and the vast majority of Americans.
When it comes to the economy, Trump in particular and Republicans in general are seen by many Americans to be far better for the ...er, their economy than are the Democrats. This is a wildly misguided perception than Democrats, at long last, need to focus on correcting.
Domestic oil production is also setting records.
Indeed it is. Which is a bad thing and not something Biden should be running on, at the very least.
Of course, we, as a planet, are well beyond being in any sort of position to mitigate climate change in any meaningful way by phasing out our love affair with fossil fuels, so ...
... Drill, baby, drill!
Hooray for Chris!
TP 6 is the very first that I've seen since Biden was elected that even gets close to global climate crisis, one of the TOP concerns of younger voters.
Now if only someone would talk about another "hot" issue that will get people to the polls this November:
'In a call with reporters earlier this month, campaign manager Julie Chávez Rodriguez pointed to Project 2025 as a particular threat — arguing that Biden’s policies to advance abortion rights would be in jeopardy if he loses in November and vowing to hammer the message until “every single voter knows it.”
“They have laid out an 887-page blueprint that includes, in painstaking detail, exactly how they plan to leverage virtually every arm, tool and agency of the federal government to attack abortion access,” she said. “Trump’s close advisers have actual plans to block access to abortion in every single state without any help from Congress or the courts.”'
https://www.politico.com/news/2024/01/29/trump-abortion-ban-2024-campaign-00138417
italyrusty,
The 'anti-abortion rights plus' movement surely does need to be exposed by Dems. But, the message does need to be cleverly framed to be most effective ...
[1]
… automatically echo-chamber imbeciles.
I do not consider you an echo-chamber imbecile although it’s clearly a waste of time to address the issue of Ukraine, for example. I address YOUR points and then justify my arguments. You don’t address seemingly ANY point I’ve gone through the trouble bapping out on my smart phone. You then wait a couple weeks and then proceed to repeat your unsupported position. Rinse and repeat.
How's that war going?
... ah, speaking of waste of time ... and money and lives!
A waste of time, money and lives if, of course, you happen to be in the arms business or the fossil fuels business. Great.
Strike that and let's try again!
A waste of time, money and lives UNLESS, of course, you happen to be in the arms business and the fossil fuels business.
Sigh.
Say, has anyone here heard of Neocon Island!? ;)
Update on the Biden-backed Gaza war:
Palestinian death toll closes in on 27,000, mostly women and children with, undoubtedly, many more still buried under the rubble.
More civilians have been killed in Gaza than during two years of war in Ukraine. Are the Russians that much worse than the Israelis at killing civilians? Ah, that would be no.
And, on it goes ...
Caddy, I wouldn't be here if I had to tap out all of this stuff on a smart phone! Good God!
Am I the only one who is getting the feeling that the US is currently engaged in playing another game of whack-a-mole in the Middle East?
Don't see how this sort of strategy ends well until the, ah, root causes are addressed.
A new Biden doctrine for the Middle East?
https://www.nytimes.com/2024/01/31/opinion/biden-iran-israel.html
The right is losing its collective mind (what remains of it, that is) over ever-wilder conspiracy theories they have ginned up against Swift and her paramour Travis Kelce.
I hope the right wingnuts are tuning into the Grammy Awards on Sunday when Taylor Swift has a very good chance to become the first artist (living or deceased) to ever win Album of the Year -- "The Big Award" -- four times. As I write this, Taylor is tied with Frank Sinatra, Stevie Wonder, and Paul Simon with three Grammys each for Album of the Year.
So FAIR WARNING... this right-wingnut conspiracy BS could go into overdrive if Taylor wins The Big Award. Travis Kelce will not be there at the Grammy Awards because he's (obviously) in Nevada pretending to practice for The Big Game where the fix is in. ;)
It was reported this week (in campaign finance filings) that Team Trump spent a whopping $55 million on his legal fees last year. Trump himself seems to be peeved with the $83.3 million jury judgment against him in his second E. Jean Carroll lawsuit, and is now seeking new lawyers to represent him in the appeals.
So, let me get this straight: Trump has (so far) spent $55 million for lawyers who have (to date) lost in court to the tune of $5 million plus $83.3 million, and stay tuned next week where I expect Trump will lose (guessing) somewhere in the neighborhood of between $200 and $250 million more to the State of New York for multiple instances of committing fraud.
Winning! *shakes head*
So don't just use Trump's name, folks, call him what he really is: 'Donald Herbert Hoover Trump.' Especially because it annoys him so much!
Trump wants the market to crash and is only the second president in US history to lose jobs, so can't we just call him "Depression Donald" since he's determined to Make America a Great Depression Again?
Elizabeth Miller
1
Ms. Pelosi is merely acting and talking like a lot of commenters in this very blog. Which is to say that she thinks people who disagree with her are automatically echo-chamber imbeciles.
If you're making posts claiming to actually know what "a lot of commenters in this very blog" are actually thinking, then I wouldn't describe you as an "echo-chamber imbecile"... a demonstrable one, obviously.
I know.
Like I said, "demonstrable imbecile."
I deal with that sort around here all the time, of late. :(
Also apparently butthurt enough to twist a totally unrelated post about Nancy Pelosi into a manufactured pity party for yourself. *blows party horn*
MtnCaddy
8
I address YOUR points and then justify my arguments. You don’t address seemingly ANY point I’ve gone through the trouble bapping out on my smart phone.
Exactly correct.
You then wait a couple weeks and then proceed to repeat your unsupported position. Rinse and repeat.
So you're saying it's like an echo? Inside a chamber? ;)
...waiting for all of the other shoes to drop ... heh
Meanwhile, and since it's Sunday in Weigantia, here's a special tune just for our Kick. Enjoy!
[9]
The war is going fine! Ukraine is still an independent country, something that the Ukrainians who are fighting and dying value more than a certain Canadian Weigantian. The only Weigantian who believes that telling Russia that Ukraine will never join NATO isn’t a “Help yourself, Vlad!” The one who ignores geopolitics. They’re bleeding Russia dry and once the West puts the rest of the tools needed in their hands bc it’s just a matter of time.
[21]
I wouldn’t have gone that far but I cannot summon much in the way of disagreement.
fighting for one's survival tends not to have a lot of viable alternatives, when your opponent is determined to end your existence. since both hamas and russia have made it clear that they are not moving away from their end goals of annhilation of jewish israel and independent ukraine respectively, until that changes there's really nothing to discuss.
it is certainly worthy to mourn the 1% of gaza's population who have not survived the current war. however, when fighting against an entrenched and determined enemy who intentionally embeds their heaviest arms and armed individuals in the most concentrated civilian areas like hospitals and schools, successfully fighting them and dismantling their war infrastructure while keeping over 90% of the civilians alive is less of a tragedy than an accomplishment.
Elizabeth Miller
23
Meanwhile, and since it's Sunday in Weigantia, here's a special tune just for our Kick. Enjoy!
Could you kindly let all us "commenters in this very blog" know when your Nancy Pelosi commentary metamorphosized into self-executed pity party is going to be brought to its merciful conclusion? *blows party horn*
Asking for a friend. :)
MtnCaddy
24
:)
nypoet22
25
Exactly!
Joshua[25-26],
All of that assumes that what the IDF is doing is going to destroy Hamas and/or not create Hamas 2.0. Furthermore, it assumes that the long-term security of Israel is actually being enhanced by the accomplishment you speak of.
Very dangerous assumptions, on both counts.
Elizabeth Miller
30
All of that assumes that what the IDF is doing is going to destroy Hamas and/or not create Hamas 2.0.
Your ignorance regarding both situations is (still) obvious in that you're once again (and again and again ad nauseam regurgitation here) making the argument/asinine assertion that one should not deign to fight for their very existence against attackers who have vowed to annihilate them unless that invading entity can be defeated in their current totality and possibly future forms.
Furthermore, it assumes that the long-term security of Israel is actually being enhanced by the accomplishment you speak of.
Now you're just basically putting words in his mouth and failing (as usual) to recognize the accomplishment that he speaks of for both Israel and Ukraine is not being annihilated by those whose goal is ending their very existence.
Cut to the chase:
* History is obviously not your strong suit.
* Your regurgitated argument ad nauseam is what is known as "appeasement."
* JL and MtnCaddy are dead on accurate about this... 100%.
i made neither of those assumptions.
israel's operations in gaza right now are occurring for the purpose of preventing more terrorist attacks in israel right now, not twenty years from now. it would be wonderful if hamas could be completely dismantled and prevented from engaging in more terrorist attacks in the future, without harming any gazan civilians in the process.
however, we don't all have the luxury of setting such a high bar for success.
I didn't mean to say that YOU were making any assumptions. How would I know what assumptions you make or don't make. I don't know you well enough.
I don't understand how the way Netanyahu and the IDF are going about this - with more than 27,000 Gazans dead with many more, presumably, still under the rubble, so far; with little or no humanitarian aid getting to where it is needed; with no hostages rescued by the IDF and three of them killed at the hands of IDF soldiers; with no hint of a political solution coming from the most extremist Israeli government in my lifetime and, in fact, a refusal to entertain the idea of a Palestinian state - is making Israel more secure or its citizens more safe, in the short, medium or long term.
What is success in this situation regardless of how high or low the bar is set? I don't know but it seems we are nowhere near any part of it at this point.
Elizabeth Miller
33
I didn't mean to say that YOU were making any assumptions.
How did you not "mean to say that" when you reference two of his comments at 25 and 26 and then state: "All of that assumes"?
How would I know what assumptions you make or don't make.
That's a question. Answer: The same way you claim to know what Nancy Pelosi and a "lot of commenters in this very blog" thinks in your comment at [1] above.
I don't understand how the way Netanyahu and the IDF are going about this - with more than 27,000 Gazans dead with many more, presumably, still under the rubble, so far; with little or no humanitarian aid getting to where it is needed; with no hostages rescued by the IDF and three of them killed at the hands of IDF soldiers; with no hint of a political solution coming from the most extremist Israeli government in my lifetime and, in fact, a refusal to entertain the idea of a Palestinian state - is making Israel more secure or its citizens more safe, in the short, medium or long term.
You're right; you don't understand. You're also being misinformed and repeating the false information in this paragraph.
What is success in this situation regardless of how high or low the bar is set?
I will tell you one thing I know for certain; it's not your problem to solve, particularly when you are so misinformed and just generally have repeatedly demonstrated that you have very little understanding of historical events and continue to regurgitate ad nauseam nothing but repetitive rhetoric that involves "solutions" bordering on appeasement or that are outright appeasement.
I don't know but it seems we are nowhere near any part of it at this point.
You're right; you don't know, but I have an idea for you. Treat Russia and Hamas like they are COVID trying to overtake and annihilate the people of Ukraine and Israel, respectively. The virus will never go away; it will take many forms and will have to be defeated over and over in order to save people from extinction. SARS existed before but was contained. It returned in full force and was named SARS-CoV-2 a.k.a. COVID. Now remember how you whined ad nauseam that the United States was a rich nation who owed the world to protect everyone from the virus? Connect the dots. Here, let me help you:
As I observe it from your commentary, your flaw is in your seeming belief that there's a correct/perfect solution to every unknown global issue being thrown at it and that the United States is somehow to blame for it.
That'll do for a start.
Shocking. Positively shocking.
sorry liz, i've really tried to get through to you on this, but kick is right, you keep repeating stuff that is patently false. for example, "no hint of a political solution coming from the most extremist Israeli government" - that's just not the case.
prior to october 7 the leadership coalition was very right-wing, but the israeli war cabinet includes almost all parties, left right and center. Why? because there is no political solution possible with someone who is still trying to kill you. it is not israel's responsibility to propose endless political compromises on palestinian statehood when there's no common ground on the matter of whether or not the state of israel will continue to exist.
JL
Joshua,
patently false. for example, "no hint of a political solution coming from the most extremist Israeli government" - that's just not the case.
Patently false? Hardly. Netanyahu, the Israeli prime minister, has made his views quite clear on whether a two-state solution or any political solution is in the cards. His views on this are extreme. His views on illegal settlements are extreme, etc. These views of his, by the way, are apparently at odds with the views of many Israeli citizens.
Israel has for decades given lip service - as well as time, energy and effort - to the idea of Palestinian statehood and a two-state solution to the decades long Palestinian-Israeli conflict. On 10/6, I would have guessed that the two-state solution was dead or, at the very least, dormant. But, in the aftermath of the horrors of the 10/7 Hamas attacks against Israel, that long sought after solution seems to have been given new life. By people of the highest caliber, I might add, like Ehud Barak.
...there is no political solution possible with someone who is still trying to kill you.
Well, of course, when I write about political compromise and a two-state solution I am NOT talking about working toward that end with Hamas at the table. That much SHOULD go without saying. I keep forgetting how precise I need to make my language. I should know better than to leave any room, whatsoever, for assumptions that would make me out to be a Hamas appeaser.
Elizabeth Miller
37
Patently false?
Yes.
Netanyahu, the Israeli prime minister, has made his views quite clear on whether a two-state solution or any political solution is in the cards.
So you're seriously now claiming that your definition of "the most extremist Israeli government" was meant as simply "Netanyahu"? Do you also think the United States government is one person? Rhetorical question.
It's as if you don't even read anyone's comments or don't understand them... just lather, rinse, repeat, repeat, repeat ad nauseam.
These views of his, by the way, are apparently at odds with the views of many Israeli citizens.
And those Israeli citizens have representatives in the Israeli government, and (like JL made abundantly clear) the israeli war cabinet includes almost all parties, left right and center.
And, honestly, you actually don't know what political solutions they're discussing because you're not privy to that information... but keep digging.
Sigh.
Maybe this will help, Kick ...
https://www.ft.com/content/2a1555bd-6831-4c41-9d74-0a3dec994d9c
just lather, rinse, repeat, repeat, repeat ad nauseam.
I call projection on you, Kick! I mean, seriously, read your last many comments out loud and you'll see what I'm talking about. Heh.
This is what is next on my reading list ...
Israel's Self-Destruction?
Not a bad read, but not very useful to understand the reasons why Netanyahu and his creed have gained popularity, nor why his left wing opponents (Benn included) have lost credibility. As bad as militaristic encroachment has been, unilateral compromise has been worse.
Elizabeth Miller
40
Maybe this will help, Kick ...
You've thoroughly convinced me you are beyond "help," but "knock yourself out" reading it if you think it'll do you some good. :)
Elizabeth Miller
41
I call projection on you, Kick!
I call deflection on you, Canada.
I mean, seriously, read your last many comments out loud and you'll see what I'm talking about. Heh.
If you want to increase your reading comprehension/speed, stop moving your lips. *laughs* I don't need to read anything "out loud" to understand it. If my comments sound repetitious to you, it's because I'm quoting at length your repetitive drivel and spew.
Joshua,
As bad as militaristic encroachment has been, unilateral compromise has been worse.
I agree.
The problem with Israel's 'over the top' response to the October 7 attacks is that it seems to have at its core the complete depopulation of Gaza, pushing the Palestinians out and offering no hope for ever recognizing their rights or aspirations for statehood, seemingly with little interest in saving the lives of the hostages, none of whom have been rescued by the IDF.
Between militaristic encroachment and unilateral compromise, there should be enough ground to find a way out of this war that neutralizes Hamas and formalizes a process that can work toward solving the puzzle of two peoples living together on one small parcel of land.