Biden Teases Student Loan Forgiveness

[ Posted Tuesday, April 26th, 2022 – 15:44 UTC ]

President Joe Biden seems to be getting more engaged in the process of the midterm election campaign of late. He has been travelling around the country a lot more (partly this is due to the fluctuating state of the COVID pandemic, of course), he has been making the case for his own record of accomplishments a lot better, and he now seems to be openly considering making a dramatic move that he has actually supported all along: forgiving at least $10,000 of student debt. Notably, this comes only days after Senator Elizabeth Warren publicly urged Biden to start using executive orders to get some things done now, while it could matter for the party's chances in the fall. Maybe Biden got the message.

Of all the things Biden could do with the stroke of a pen, there are two that stand out above all the rest: cancelling student loans and forcing drug companies to lower the prices on their medication. Those two alone would be gigantic leaps forward, at least in the political sense. High drug prices are something everyone hates -- everyone not either on the payroll of or otherwise beholden to Big Pharma. And it consistently winds up near the top of the list in things American voters would like to see the government accomplish, across party lines. While not quite as universal, at least partially forgiving student loans is politically important for one specific reason: the demographic it would help the most.

Biden's job approval numbers are down, but among young voters they have fallen off a cliff -- much more so than in any other group, in fact. The young are a lot more susceptible to being easily disillusioned with politics and politicians and the whole sausage-making process in Washington. First-time voters for Barack Obama had to live through this disillusionment, and now those who didn't vote for Obama (because they weren't old enough to) are going through roughly the same process with Biden.

If only Joe Manchin and Kyrsten Sinema hadn't stood in his way, this might not have been true, of course. If Biden's original Build Back Better plan had passed, there would be a plethora of things for young voters to be triumphant about. But that didn't come to pass, and it doesn't look especially likely at this point either (even as Manchin coyly teases his way back onto television by hinting there's a possibility he'd agree to something). By stopping filibuster reform as well, the two senators also put a stake through the heart of voting rights reform and a lot of other good bills that made it out of the House. Which leaves young voters feeling like they were promised a whole lot of things the Democrats haven't been able to deliver -- and rightly so.

Student loan relief would be a clear way to generate enthusiasm among young voters. Republicans are probably already teeing up the argument: "But... buying votes is illegal!" which is just laughable when you consider how many other ways politicians do exactly the same thing -- either universally ("We're cutting everyone's taxes!") or with one demographic as a specific target ("Let's increase the Child Tax Credit for hardworking parents!"). Would student loan relief be heavily utilized by one age group over another? It sure would, but there's really nothing new about that sort of thing at all.

President Biden teased the idea of student loan forgiveness during a meeting with the Hispanic Caucus yesterday, but apparently this is part of a larger effort, as the article points out:

The Hispanic Caucus meeting Monday was part of a series of sit-downs Biden has held with Democratic coalitions on Capitol Hill in recent weeks to discuss pushing ahead with his agenda by using executive action, since a number of his legislative initiatives have foundered.

This is good news in general, of course. But let's get to the specific tease Biden unveiled:

President Biden gave his strongest indication yet in a private meeting with House Democrats that he is poised to take significant action to relieve student loans, a move that could include canceling tens of thousands of dollars in debt for some people.

Borrowers are currently benefiting from a moratorium on paying off their student loans that lasts until Aug. 31, a pandemic-induced pause that began under the Trump administration. The White House has come under considerable pressure from the liberal wing of the Democratic Party to cancel the liabilities outright, rather than repeatedly extending the moratorium as it has been doing.

. . .

During a lengthy meeting with members of the Congressional Hispanic Caucus on Monday, Biden signaled multiple times that he was prepared not only to extend the current moratorium but to potentially take executive actions canceling some of the debt altogether, according to two House members in attendance and two aides briefed on the meeting's contents.

. . .

[Representative Tony] Cárdenas said he then urged the president to issue an executive order to relieve at least $10,000 in student loan debts per person. In making his case, Cárdenas said he told Biden that Latinos in the United States who are carrying student debt still have more than 80 percent of their bill due after more than a dozen years.

Biden was "incredibly positive" about the idea, Cárdenas said.

Another lawmaker in attendance, Rep. Darren Soto (D-Fla.), said Biden's response to lawmakers' requests to cancel at least some student debt was essentially that he would like to do it sooner rather than later. The president suggested he is looking to take the executive action in short order, telling the Hispanic lawmakers that they would be very happy with what he does next, according to aides briefed on the meeting.

Such a move could prove a popular selling point for Democrats in the upcoming midterm elections. Still, Biden stressed that the timing of any announcement on loan relief was sensitive, since he does not want it to add to inflationary pressures.

During the 2020 Democratic primary campaign, Bernie Sanders ran on cancelling all student debt -- making college free, in other words, even for those who had already attended and were just paying it off (or trying to). Biden never went this far. And he's always seemed pretty ambivalent about the idea in general:

For much of his presidency, Biden has not been warm to the idea of outright student debt cancellation. In an interview with New York Times columnist David Brooks last year, Biden reacted dismissively to the idea, saying: "The idea that you go to Penn and you're paying a total of 70,000 bucks a year and the public should pay for that? I don't agree."

The president has also stressed that any debt relief plan would be focused on lower-income and underprivileged students.

During the presidential campaign, Biden wrote in a 2020 Medium post that he favored a plan "forgiving student debt for low-income and middle class people who have attended public colleges and universities," as well as historically Black colleges and universities, or HBCUs.

In that post, Biden spoke of "an immediate cancellation of a minimum of $10,000 of student debt per person," adding that those earning less than $25,000 per year would not have to make monthly payments and would accrue no interest.

Even his $10,000 would be means-tested, in other words. But what means-testing does is introduce complexity -- which almost always decreases effectiveness. There are good ways and bad ways for the government to get money to people, to put this another way. The best way is directly -- just send everyone a check. The closest I've ever seen to this was the stimulus payments during the pandemic. If you had filed your taxes and made less than the cutoff, you got a check in the mail. For most people, they didn't have to do anything -- the check just showed up (or showed up as a deposit in their bank accounts). But the more middlemen you introduce and the more hoops you make people jump through, the fewer eligible people will actually get the help they deserve.

Don't believe me? Here's the best example possible, from an article which appeared less than a week ago under the headline: "U.S. Could Have Forgiven Thousands Of Student Loans But Never Told Borrowers."

A blistering government audit of income-driven repayment plans -- those tied to the borrower's salary -- accuses the Education Department of mismanagement that may have robbed student loan holders of timely debt forgiveness.

A Government Accountability Office report on repayment plans that offer debt cancellation after 20 or 25 years said Wednesday that about 7,700 loans may have been eligible for forgiveness since Sept. 1, 2020. But holes in the department's data made it difficult to definitively grant cancellation. Only 157 loans have been forgiven as of June 2021.

Note those dates -- this happened on Biden's watch. You can't even blame Trump appointees for screwing it up, in other words. But there's plenty of blame to go around:

Jason D. Delisle, a senior policy fellow in the Center on Education Data and Policy at the Urban Institute, said the department, loan servicers and Congress share the blame for the poor execution of income-driven repayment plans.

"Congress designed these programs and set these terms, and they are complicated and confusing to borrowers," said Delisle, who co-authored a recent paper on reforming the income-driven repayment. "If you're going to have these kinds of programs, you need really good administrative tracking systems that neither the servicers nor the department has put effort into."

Or you need to make them as simple and as easy to access as humanly possible. That works, too. And since Biden won't have to deal with Congress to create an executive order, he can write it however he wants. Making it as simple as possible might be the key to how successful the program will prove to be.

One more thing stood out in that initial article. The White House was quoted as saying Biden would make a decision "before August 31," when the current moratorium on payments expires. But it also said "he would like to do it sooner than later," so who knows what Biden is thinking in terms of the timing of such an announcement?

I would vote for Independence Day or before, personally. June would be a wonderful month to roll out a plan, since it is graduation time for so many. No matter what criteria Biden decides upon, the program will help at least some students with at least some of their debt load. Which could help begin to turn around Biden's standing with young voters and (even more importantly) give them a real sense of enthusiasm about the possibilities of politics once again. Midterm elections are usually skipped by young voters (more so than other groups -- midterm turnout is lower across the board, I should mention), and this would be a great way to get them a lot more engaged in the process.

It would also allow Biden to tout another box checked on his list of campaign promises. Biden was never for Bernie's plan to make all public colleges tuition-free, but he did at least want to see two-year community colleges go that route -- until Manchin and Sinema stopped him. Since that idea is now dead (for now), student loan forgiveness seems the logical next thing to achieve -- especially because Biden can do so all on his own.

-- Chris Weigant


Follow Chris on Twitter: @ChrisWeigant


66 Comments on “Biden Teases Student Loan Forgiveness”

  1. [1] 
    Elizabeth Miller wrote:

    I was lucky to have had some financial assistance to help pay off my student loans. First off, I qualified mostly for grants and then a great aunt left me some money that paid off the rest.

    Here's hoping that if Biden does this that it will pay dividends - for the students and former students that it helps and for him in 2022 and 2024.

  2. [2] 
    Elizabeth Miller wrote:

    Chris, Kick - and, everyone!

    I stumbled across something just now that I can't wait to play Sunday night.

    We'll be focusing on favourite cover bands or songs.

    Let me just say that you will not want to miss next Sunday evening!

  3. [3] 
    nypoet22 wrote:


    Perhaps if we were all as well educated as you are, we'd have breached the heights of success that you have. I guess we can't all be that lucky.

    I may not have all of your advanced degrees or political experience, but I believe that pie is a better way.

  4. [4] 
    Elizabeth Miller wrote:

    Well, Don ... I will always wish the best for Biden and America. Can't help myself, it's in my political DNA, I guess.

  5. [5] 
    Michale wrote:

    So, you forgive the debt of students to buy their vote..

    And what about the MILLIONS of people who worked hard and paid off their debt?

    Will they get a refund?? No?? Then they are going to be mighty pissed off... And Democrats will LOSE those millions or even tens of millions of votes..

    Democrats are always about the immediate gratification of grandiose plans..

    Democrats never think things thru...

  6. [6] 
    Michale wrote:

    Elon Conquers The Twitterverse

    Our chattering class claims Musk is a supervillain. The truth is simpler: He wants free speech. They don't.

    What IS it about Democrats that they are so afraid of Free Speech??

    So afraid of NOT being able to control what Americans see and talk about??

    That right there is one of the biggest facts to support how bad Democrat Party governance is for America...

    Democrats want to control all you see and hear about...

    Democrats are the CCP without the drab uniforms..

  7. [7] 
    Michale wrote:

    America's parents just want our culture back

    Most Americans want government to mind its own business so we can raise our kids and live our lives

    Across the country we’re seeing a movement to reclaim our culture take hold. This uprising is provoked by the far left’s egregious overreach into our everyday lives.

    Regardless of political affiliation, it’s several bridges too far for most Americans who just want government to mind their own business so they can raise their kids and live their lives.

    The late Andrew Breitbart was the first to caution that "politics is downstream from culture."

    His warning came more than a decade ago. He foresaw what most of us failed to recognize — until now.

    The first domino to fall in this cultural take-back arguably happened in the Commonwealth of Virginia, where I live. It was led largely by parents who are politically colorblind but culturally very much aware of a government that overplayed its hand with fuzzy science, intrusive political mandates, and ultimately set a match to our education system.

    Democrats really stepped on their wee-wees when they decided that control of America's children should reside with the government and not the parents..

    Democrats probably could not have chosen a WORSE hill to die on..

  8. [8] 
    Michale wrote:

    Twitter Takeover Was Brash and Fast, With Musk Calling the Shots

    A good timeline of the sequence of events that lead to Democrats losing the largest Democrat-Controlled Propaganda outlet.. :D

    A very good read...

  9. [9] 
    Michale wrote:

    Oh ho ho... What have we here.. :D

    Truth Social is top free app, with Twitter second on iOS Apps store

    Truth Social is currently receiving more iOS downloads than Twitter.

    Truth Social on Tuesday ranks as the No. 1 free app on the online iOS apps store, with the Twitter app in second.

    The site was started by former President Trump and is owned by the Trump Media and Technology Group. The site was launched in late February but had limited new arrivals as the result of an extended beta testing period, which also creating a significant wait list of potential users.

    However, the company recently completed the site's long-prepared migration to Rumble, which has eliminate the backlogs.

    Looks like the demise of President Trump's new social was greatly exaggerated.. :D

    One has to wonder if Democrats ever get tired of being wrong.. :D

    But President Trump's sage advice is still factually not accurate..

    I am NOT tired of winning.. :D

  10. [10] 
    Michale wrote:

    Democrat Party's UNCIVIL War.. :D

    Hunter Biden held nothing back in expletive-filled emails trashing Bill Clinton

    Hunter Biden ripped Bill Clinton as ‘a--hole’ who ‘looks like s--t,' said Clinton aides are 'greedy': Emails

    'Petty, Greedy, Venal, Low Rent bulls--t is what it is,' Hunter Biden said about Clinton aides double dipping on salaries

    Hunter Biden complaining about others being greedy is like Democrats complaining about GOP hypocrisy... :D

  11. [11] 
    Michale wrote:


    BUT I think you'll enjoy this this anti-PC rant, Michale. (8:35) I did.

    Other than the irrational and unfactual digs at Presdent Trump, yea it was pretty funny.. :D

    Maher is coming around but he is not quite there yet... Still suffering from PTDS...

  12. [12] 
    Michale wrote:

    Amid talk of World War III, diplomacy is losing steam

    The specter of nuclear catastrophe hangs over the Russian war in Ukraine, according to Russia’s own top diplomat. Speaking on state television earlier this week, Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov warned NATO countries against sending armaments to Ukraine, suggesting that such support was “pouring oil on the fire” and increasing the risk of confrontation between nuclear powers.

    For all of Biden's talk about avoiding a direct conflict with Russia.... Biden is sure going out of his way to INSIST on a fight, rather than avoiding a fight..

    Biden's milquetoast manner of supporting Ukraine is simply prolonging the war...

    It's universally accepted that Putin doesn't want a war with NATO...

    So, the solution is simple... NATO launches an all out offensive to drive Russians out of Ukraine.. ALL of Ukraine... This war would be over in a week at most..

    If only Biden actually had a pair..

  13. [13] 
    Michale wrote:

    Progressive Twitter accounts lose followers, conservatives gain
    San Francisco (AFP) – Key figures on the American left, Barack Obama among them, have shed thousands of followers since Elon Musk's planned purchase of Twitter emerged, while numbers have soared for right-wing politicians.

    Musk, the world's richest man, struck a deal Monday to buy the US-based social media platform for $44 billion.

    The news was greeted with enthusiasm by fans of Musk, who calls himself a free speech absolutist, and horror by proponents of strong moderation of disinformation and hate speech.

    Promises to leave the platform trended under hashtags such as #LeaveTwitter. Within hours, many appeared to be following through.

    Former US president Obama, the most popular person on Twitter with more than 131 million followers, lost 300,000 of them nearly overnight, according to news outlet NBC.

    Controversial Republican congresswoman Marjorie Taylor Greene, by contrast, gained nearly 100,000 to her official congressional Twitter account in just 24 hours.

    Greene, a vocal ally of former president Donald Trump whose personal profile was banned by the platform, praised the acquisition.

    "Prepare for blue check mark full scale meltdown after @elonmusk seals the deal and I should get my personal Twitter account restored," she tweeted, referencing the site's system for verifying users.

    "It really is something how conservative accounts are getting massive follower increases today," Republican Representative Matt Gaetz, another Trump ally, said Tuesday.

    Twitter on Tuesday told AFP that while they were monitoring the situation, the fluctuations appeared to be organic and largely due to new accounts being created and existing ones deactivated.

    The exodus extended beyond political accounts.


    Democrats - 0

    :D What's not ta love, eh? :D

  14. [14] 
    Michale wrote:

    Message to woke corporate America: Butt out of politics

    Woke corporate America is finally getting some push-back. It’s about time.

    Gov. Ron DeSantis (R-Fla.) has punished the Walt Disney Company for interfering in his state’s politics, signing a bill that strips the Mouse House of special tax status in Florida. The issue? Disney defaming DeSantis’s much maligned “Don’t Say Gay” bill, which, ironically, says nothing of the kind.

    The consequences are severe: Disney will no longer have jurisdiction over the development and management of an area encompassing tens of thousands of acres that has been under their total control since 1968. The carve out of, especially, the Reedy Creek Improvement District, meant that Disney could build and expand without jumping environmental speedbumps and could enact their own tax policies.

    It was a sweet deal for Disney, which they have now relinquished, all because some woke employees convinced management to speak out against the Parental Rights in Education Bill that was widely popular in Florida, even among Democrats, before it was slammed by the liberal press.

    An early poll that asked about the bill’s restrictions on sex and gender teaching to little kids found support from 61 percent of respondents and 67 percent of parents; even 55 percent of Democrats agreed with the legislation.

    Woke crap just ain't gonna cut it anymore with the American people..

    Even the majority of DEMOCRATS support Florida's anti-Groomer law...

  15. [15] 
    Michale wrote:

    Just recently Exxon announced that it would no longer allow flags demonstrating support for political causes, like the gay rainbow or Black Lives Matter banners, to fly from company flagpoles. The new edict permits only government or company flags to fly from high, though the firm will allow interest groups to display their banners on lawns or virtually.

    Needless to say, this modest effort to control how Exxon signals the world was met with outrage. The Human Rights Campaign, which advocates for LGBT rights, tweeted, “There’s no such thing as ‘neutrality’ when it comes to our rights. Our flag isn’t just a visual representation of our identities. It is also a staple of allyship.”

    The blow-back will undoubtedly get worse. But the left has a problem bullying Exxon; no matter how woke the oil giant becomes, it will never win plaudits from a population who largely hates what they do. Climate activists have pushed the world’s second-largest oil and gas firm to abandon their core business; management is already under the gun.

    Exxon management may realize that their best choice is indeed neutrality, that the “silence is violence” theme is nonsense and that they are better off exploring for oil.

    Former McDonald’s CEO Ed Rensi, fed up with woke corporate activism, has launched The Boardroom Initiative. He encourages companies to butt out of politics, saying, “Corporations have no business being on the right or the left because…their sole job is to build equity for the investors.”

    Amen to that. Let’s hope corporate America is listening.

    All this woke crap is becoming toxic for the Left..

    But like the definition of insanity, Democrats will keep doing the same thing over and over again hoping for a different result.. :D

    Kewl.. :D

  16. [16] 
    Michale wrote:

    WOOT!!! :D

    I am now the proud owner of a 256GB Oculus Quest 2!!! :D

  17. [17] 
    Elizabeth Miller wrote:


    You make a good point ... no, you make a very good point!

  18. [18] 
    nypoet22 wrote:


    yes, as liz says, that's a valid point. if a massive, bernie-esque tuition giveback were undertaken, i'd see that as a plausible result. however, i don't think some modest needs-based debt forgiveness (which is biden's actual proposal) would anger graduates such as myself who are all paid up, at least not so much so that it would result in losing their votes. not everyone is a malcontent who flings epithets any time someone else gets attention and they don't.


  19. [19] 
    BashiBazouk wrote:

    I don't mind the concept of student debt forgiveness but if the underlying problems that caused the huge debt in the first place are not addressed, this just gives the schools carte blanche to over charge knowing the government will come in and pay for it every once in a while.

    School tuition, supplies and living expenses have sky rocketed in the last decade, even more than the cost of medical care. I think most understand that. The cranky ones who don't probably vote republican anyway so I doubt many votes would be lost.

  20. [20] 
    BashiBazouk wrote:


    "screwed by the scam", eh?

    The purpose of university is to get an education. The better jobs is a side benefit. The more educated the people the stronger the society. It's not the only path to knowledge but it is a short cut.

    But to point, stuff I learned in college:

    Computer networking, programming, html and webdesign, marketing, graphic design. Critical writing and how to edit. Logic and critical thinking. Among many other topics. But that subset is exactly what you need to push your OD to success. That is what I don't get about you: you have a fanatical devotion to your one issue but a complete and total aversion to gaining the skills necessary to make it happen.

    CW won't give you time of day, Nader gave you mere lip service all after almost a decade of trying. That does not teach you a lessen? Advocating and marketing an idea is a solved problem. You just have to seek the knowledge, which strangely enough is freely available on the internet...

  21. [21] 
    Michale wrote:



    You make a good point ... no, you make a very good point!

    Thank you.. I do have my moments.. :D

    I mean, if it were me and I just busted my ass for years to payback $20K or $50K or $100K and then the US Government just up and wrote off everyone's debt who HAVEN'T paid, I would be royally pissed off and disinclined to vote for the people who just royally scroo'ed me..

    Kinda the same idea if I was a legal immigrant and busted my ass and spent a buttload of time and $$$ to become a legal citizen only to see Democrats just hand citizenship over with no muss, no fuss...

  22. [22] 
    Michale wrote:

    "Suspending the Twitter account of a major news organization for publishing a truthful story was obviously incredibly inappropriate and is tantamount to election interference"
    -Elon Musk

  23. [23] 
    BashiBazouk wrote:

    Don, you can talk smack all day long but the proof is in the pudding, or in your case a serious lack of pudding...

  24. [24] 
    BashiBazouk wrote:

    Don, then regale us with your OD accomplishments...

  25. [25] 
    BashiBazouk wrote:

    Don, calling anything that disagrees with or fails to heap praise on OD as a "dodge" fools no one but yourself.

    Your dodges are not convincing.

    No, your use of the word "dodge" is what is not convincing...

  26. [26] 
    Michale wrote:

    Musk says Trump's Truth Social 'exists because Twitter censored free speech'

    Tesla CEO Elon Musk adds that Trump social media platform has 'terrible name'

    I gotta agree with Elon on this.. "TRUTH SOCIAL" is a terrible name..

    ANYTHING that has "truth" in it is immediately suspect as biased and subjective...

  27. [27] 
    BashiBazouk wrote:

    Don, the only dodge here is your plan to dodge any work in desperate hope that CW or Nader will cover OD and other people will volunteer to do the work for you. I think you would have a better chance playing Powerball...

  28. [28] 
    BashiBazouk wrote:

    So you have chosen to continue to dodge because you want me to call you an asshole.

    No, I want you to either put in the elbow grease required to get your idea off the ground or abandon it so we can stop scrolling by your whiny posts demanding action when you have proven thoroughly unworthy.

  29. [29] 
    BashiBazouk wrote:

    Quick, someone call Don a waaaambulance!

  30. [30] 
    BashiBazouk wrote:

    You want a fact Don? No one wants to work with or support someone with a hair trigger on calling everyone an asshole. You are cutting off your nose to spite your face.

    And since you project so much your waaaaambulance comment just shows that calling you an asshole really hurts you! :D

    My, my, my look at the delusional ego on Don! Other than it brings down the decorum of this comments section I am not bothered by you calling me any name you can come up with. For I know it hurts OD considerably and me not at all...

  31. [31] 
    BashiBazouk wrote:

    Dude, the only ass you kick is your own...

    There is even a song about it!

  32. [32] 
    BashiBazouk wrote:

    Do they? Calling names and mislabeling everything as a dodge is not a win in anyone's book but your own.

  33. [33] 
    MtnCaddy wrote:

    Kewell write up, CW.

    (On topic)

    Do y'all think this would work? Or would it be too...theatrical?

    Joe should announce the forgiveness of at least five figures of student debt on Independence Day.

    It's not like the President ever gets the Fourth off, so why not make some made-in-the-Democratic-Party lemonade while he's on the clock?

    He could tout it as the Democratic's Investment in the Future. The economic future of Americans saddled by debt. You know, the people America needs to be as prosperous as possible -- the ones who will be supporting us when we're retired.

    In fairness, everyone who has or has had a Student Loan gets the same amount. This

    Here's the possibly theatrical part:

    We're fighting for all American's right to live and not only to exist to prosper. A more perfect union.

    We will not go quietly into the night! We will not vanish without a fight! We're going to keep fighting for an America for ALL Americans.

    July 4, 2022

    Comments, Weigantia!

  34. [34] 
    MtnCaddy wrote:


    Whoops! simple and gets money in American's pockets to offset worldwide inflation.

  35. [35] 
    MtnCaddy wrote:


    Michale wrote:

    WOOT!!! :D

    I am now the proud owner of a 256GB Oculus Quest 2!!! :D

    Okay, call me Huckleberry,

    Michale. Rather than use left-wing Google to look it up I'd like to know from vous WTF this is?

    Is it a handgun, perchance? Good stopping power but easy to conceal for the School Board meeting?

    Signed --

    Curious Libtard Hillbilly

  36. [36] 
    BashiBazouk wrote:

    Is it a handgun, perchance? Good stopping power but easy to conceal for the School Board meeting?

    It's a VR rig. Stand alone I believe. Good resolution, a tad under powered. My cousin got one at Christmas. I have the PSVR myself. I highly recommend Beat Saber, probably the best VR game to date...

  37. [37] 
    MtnCaddy wrote:


    Yeah, I'm regrettably with you on this:

    That is what I don't get about you: you have a fanatical devotion to your one issue but a complete and total aversion to gaining the skills necessary to make it happen.

    CW won't give you time of day, Nader gave you mere lip service all after almost a decade of trying. That does not teach you a lessen? Advocating and marketing an idea is a solved problem. You just have to seek the knowledge, which strangely enough is freely available on the internet...

    Don, I love you Brother and I'm convinced that Ralph/you are right about Big Money. So please accept the little bit of effort I do chose to invest in you and The Cause. Because it's not about you and me it's about The Cause.

    What drives me nuts is that every time someone raises an objection to OD you act like you don't understand English all of the sudden and refuse to deal with the objection. Then you claim that you did and have stooped to insulting the Weigantians who are giving you the time of day. It doesn't matter that your choice of how to push OD has been less than successful because its not you it's us sheeple!

    And, just when I'm ready to bail on you, you fucking make a pro-quality Political/Dolly Parton joke and hook me back in to reading your spew.

    C'mon, you're getting long in the tooth just like this 63½ year old. Don't you want to have made a true impact on the world before you die? To leave it in a little better shape than you found it in?

    Just saying. If all you got is replying with hate, it's okay. I've learned that everybody...EVERYBODY should have the right to a bad moment-day-whatever. Think about it. Forgiving the unavoidable badness keeps us from a pure revenge based existence.

    Anyways. It's just my opinion.

    Please make use of this. You are important to fixing what's fucked up.

  38. [38] 
    MtnCaddy wrote:


    Well, THAT was everything but the Namáste and a Kumbaya singalong... :D

  39. [39] 
    MtnCaddy wrote:


    K, Bashi...virtual reality?

    You mean Michale can stand in his living room and shoot virtual black helicopter Commies a-coming to take his guns away? And his gold, too?

    THAT'S no fun. Hear
    Here I was getting all excitated...

  40. [40] 
    MtnCaddy wrote:

    All excitated because I know and agree with lots of fellow 2A folks, even though I do not own a firearm. But I never met anyone before they decided to shoot up a School Board meeting, so call me curious. gotta admit that it could be the wave of the future.

    And...Michale is a #FloridaMan.

    Signed --
    Just Wanna Get In on the Ground Floor

  41. [41] 
    MtnCaddy wrote:

    Respectfully, Michale.

    I am sincerely pleased (if not, undoubtedly like you, wholly skeptical that it'll last haha) about more interaction with you these days. Nope, still working on Ukraine. And I still will complete that Officer shooting incident.

    This is good. I'm reviewing your morning spews with more of an open eye, even reading your links. Some of it is good stuff. This is why I'm researching Ukraine and law enforcement rather than simply quitting my own imperfect memory.

    Once upon a time I wondered if you were a non existent pretend commenter conjured up by Chris Weigant to plug a Devil's Advocate character into Weigantia. Before that I called you Mikhael as I was certain you were a Rooskie operative trying to poison the water.

    Guess we've come a long way, Baby.

  42. [42] 
    MtnCaddy wrote:

    ... rather than simply QUOTING my own imperfect memory.

  43. [43] 
    MtnCaddy wrote:

    Back on topic:

    I think announcing a Democratic Executive Order capping drug prices (hell, just go $35 insulin for starters -- simple and popular) and only then make your Independence Day pitch [59.]

    Rolling the super popular proposal out first creates political momentum for the only slightly more controversial (gotta pay ALL borrowers regardless of repayment status to keep it that way!) Student Loan $10K+ proposal.

    ALWAYS mention how 50 Repug Senators are what's really holding this stuff up, not so much Manchinema.

  44. [44] 
    MtnCaddy wrote:

    Whopa! Gangnam Style --

    I forgot to mention the part where Joe should,

    Always point out how Republicans consistently refuse to help Joe clean up another Republican fine mess because their midterm prospects are far more important than America.

    Democrats fix real problems in real American's lives.

    Republican don't. Instead they distract Americans by selling fear, firearms and Facism.

    flFOR the record, Michale, I am likewise trying to strike a better balance between style choices boldify-ALL CAPS-quotebox-etc.

    I try to make my posts visually attractive and inviting to the reader...while employing the shout function judiciously enough to get my fucking point across to these fucking numbskulls. I KNOW ya feel me on that. Anyways, too much shouting is of no damned use.

  45. [45] 
    MtnCaddy wrote:


    Alrighty! I wasn't fucking kidding in the above posts. As you, of late I have been working on Lizsplaining Ukraine and alonh the way I've invested hours into rationally engaging with our resident LEO, Michale, on the subject of Police/reform. I'll put you in line behind these already longstanding projects and, once again, engage with you on OD. Ya just gotta be patient. And not too frustrated with us cretins in the meanwhile. It's the best I can offer, but The Mission merits further attention.

  46. [46] 
    MtnCaddy wrote:


    So not pointing out when other people such as CW and Ralph don't meet their responsibilities and requirements they set for others that they themselves don't meet as well as not meeting the requirements they place on themselves is going to get them to meet their responsibilities and requirements because doing so would be me projecting my shortcomings on to other people?

    Your going to have to do a better job of explaining that one.


  47. [47] 
    BashiBazouk wrote:

    Just like pointing out your dodges is not mislabeling your dodges.

    I don't know, maybe they are Pontiacs or possibly even Fords. I won't put them quite at the level of a Maserati though. But if they are Dodges, then which one? A Viper or maybe a lowly Durango?

  48. [48] 
    MtnCaddy wrote:

    So please, finally answer how voting for big money candidates will get the big money out of politics when that hasn't worked for decades.

    Obviously, big money doesn't want their bought and paid for politicians to take big money out of politics. Cutting their own throats and stuff. But without a workable alternative (or until the system has been improved) America has to express it's political will regarding this by working with the politicians on offer.

    Bernie Sanders and Mitch McConnell are not the same just because they both (in different ways) successfully played the game of Murican Politics.

    THERFORE when you do your pox upon both impure houses thing you lose people because those are currently the only two houses that we have to work with.

  49. [49] 
    MtnCaddy wrote:

    So. Do you understand that we AGREE on the problem of big money in politics?

    THEREFORE could you please stop harping on a problem that we all agree on? And would you understand that correctly acknowledging the problem doesn't automatically mean that OD is the solution, as it seems you think?

  50. [50] 
    MtnCaddy wrote:

    Okay, Ladies and Germs I've gotta go shape up my MtnCaddySplains Ukraine.

  51. [51] 
    ListenWhenYouHear wrote:

    Please explain how One Demand using the basic principles of democracy to achieve the important goal we agree on is either not using the basic principles of democracy or why using the basic principles of democracy can't work.

    This question is based on a dishonest assumption — Please explain how One Demand using the basic principles of democracy to achieve the important goal we agree on… — that One Demand will achieve the “important goal we agree on”.

    What exactly is that “important goal” that “we agree on”? Getting Big Money out of politics? One Demand doesn’t do that! All One Demand does apparently is scream that it uses “the basic principles of democracy” as if that sets it apart from other political strategies. Using “the basic principles of democracy” is VOTING for the candidates we feel will best support us. We each do this every time we cast our ballots.

    And how is One Demand supposed to achieve this “important goal we agree on”?
    How are candidates supposed to make up all of the money they normally accept as campaign donations (up to $5400 combined (split for primary and general elections) if they agree to only accepting small donations of however much you deem is appropriate to be defined as a “small dollar campaign donation”? The cost of running a campaign just because you limit how much money in donations a candidate can accept.

    This is where you post that if only 10% of registered voters gave $100 to a single candidate, they would have over $1 billion dollars. While you are just wishing for things to happen, wish for a pony! If 1 person chose to give a PAC $1billion dollars, then that would cover the cost for elections as well. I have a much better chance of finding 1 donor to give that much than you will be to get 10% of registered voters to start giving to political campaigns…statistically speaking. You have no plan for how to get that many non-voters to suddenly care enough to give their money to political candidates. You just assume it will take care of itself. You are obviously claiming that the 10% of registered voters who suddenly decide to donate will be donating to one of YOUR candidates and not ones who accept any sized campaign donation as you don’t get the $1 billion needed to run your candidates campaigns. Realistic? No. Delusional? On a grand scale, yes!

    Not to mention the fact that with no candidates running as a One Demand candidate, your plan will never work! Here is where you screech how you have to have the demand and then the candidates will come… only problem is that, according to you, the demand has been there this whole time! If 80% of Americans (from both parties) want BigMoney out of politics, is not that the “demand” you are claiming must be there for candidates to appear. I’m looking, but you still have no candidates.

    You responded to my question about One Demand being a legal tax exempt non-profit organization by saying that you had an attorney who might/might not have set up Vigilante Vasectomies as a non-profit years ago… which means One Demand should result in More Than One Felony for its creator.

  52. [52] 
    MtnCaddy wrote:


    MTN caddy-
    So you admit that big money politicians will not get the big money out of politics.

    That's a start.

    Yep. Proceed in full confidence that THAT is something we're 100% in agreement about...

  53. [53] 
    MtnCaddy wrote:


    But without a workable alternative (or until the system has been improved) we have to express our political will by working with the politicians on offer.

    The Rumsfeld defense. :D

    Since when?

    Yeah, it sucks that we have to go to war with the sucky lying whores for the rich politicians.

    But it's been SINCE WHEN property owning (including slaves, ahem) white men of a certain age first cobbled othe political system that we have at hand.

    It almost looks like they rigged it up for the top 10% or something. Whoda thunk, eh?

  54. [54] 
    MtnCaddy wrote:

    ...first COBBLED together the political system THAT EVOLVED into the political system that we have on hand.

  55. [55] 
    MtnCaddy wrote:


    How is working with politicians that will not do what you want going to get them to do what you want if you vote for them when they don't do what you want?

    The Rumsfeld defense does not answer the question.

    We both believe that we have to make our political system respond, right? Please proceed as though that's a given, okay?

    Channeling my inner Donald Rumsfeld (not particularly enjoyable) I see no alternative but to employ some combination of motivating the existing politicians along with replacing enough of the politicians that won't be motivated.

    Shirley you agree, right?

    We DISAGREE ABOUT ONE DEMAND AS WHAT WILL MOTIVATE OUR POLITICIANS which is a SEPARATE issue from all of the above issues that we agree on.

    Keep the two separate and you'll get better results.

  56. [56] 
    ListenWhenYouHear wrote:

    Last week, Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis (R) decided to exact retribution after the corporate parent of Disney World opposed a state law prohibiting classroom discussion of gender identity or sexual orientation (nicknamed the “don’t say gay” law). He called on Florida legislators to dissolve Disney’s special self-governance district, called the Reedy Creek Improvement District. This nearly 55-year-old arrangement has allowed Disney to build more or less as it saw fit, so long as it did so in accordance with state and federal laws. The company also paid for road maintenance, water treatment, fire and rescue, and other public services throughout the nearly 40-square-mile area.

    With the dissolution of Reedy Creek’s special status set to take effect in June 2023, Disney will lose some control over building and services around its properties. It might be more complicated to get potholes fixed, for instance. That’s the punishment DeSantis and Republican lawmakers intended. But the GOP action has another, unintended consequence: It will dump a huge new financial burden on Orange and Osceola counties, where the special district is situated.
    These counties are expected to inherit Reedy Creek’s debt obligations and will have to cover the cost of the $163 million the company has been paying annually to fund those public services. Orange County’s tax collector has said he expects property taxes would need to rise 20 to 25 percent to foot the bill.

    So in order to “go to war”, DeSantis will have to raise Floridians property taxes up to 25%! How stupid are the Republican base applauding this “whupping to Liberals” that hurts them much more than it does Disney!

    And what damage does this cause Disney? They won’t be able to get the permits they want for buildings as quickly as they once could. Doesn’t mean that they will not get them — they will— it just might take a few more days. Will this cost Disney a lot of money? Just the opposite. Now, instead of only Disney paying for the improvements to its own properties, now the counties their properties reside in will have to chip in for those improvements.

    It seems like either Disney pulled a fast one on DeSantis, or DeSantis pulled a fast one on Republicans in Florida! I am guessing the correct answer is “B”… because he’s shown us it’s easy to get them to believe anything he says.

  57. [57] 
    ListenWhenYouHear wrote:

    That is only an excuse to accept what is offered instead of exercising political will using your vote.

    It would take more than one election cycle of citizens making demands and enforcing those demands with their votes to get the current politicians to change their behavior or make it possible to replace them with candidates that will do what we want

    Geez, are you sure that One Demand won’t fix everything in one election cycle? Not much confidence in what you are pushing it would seem! Oh wait, that’s because you have no actual idea of how this would work!

    It’s gonna take a lot more than one election cycle seeing how there are NO “ONE DEMAND” candidates currently running in the 2022 elections. 80% of Americans support your goal of getting Big Money out of politics, yet no candidate has signed up?

    Now blame CW for not reporting on your non-non-profit as to why no one believes in One Demand.

    CW, you could interview DH to see if his group/idea/whatever he claims it is today is worthy of being reported on. Then, when it isn’t, you can just post the whole thing in the comments section for us to serve as witnesses that you tried.

    Just a thought.

  58. [58] 
    BashiBazouk wrote:


    He will have raised taxes. Not something you want on your resume if running for president on a republican ticket...

  59. [59] 
    MtnCaddy wrote:


    Sorry, Don.

  60. [60] 
    ListenWhenYouHear wrote:


    Still more doubling down on lies that have been previously addressed.

    Then you should have no problem reposting the past posts where you provided these answers…proving that you have actually bothered to answer them and are not just a lying/delusional sebaceous gash. I mean, if you have answered them as frequently as you imply, then copy and pasting those answers shouldn’t take any real effort at all. Oh wait, it goes against some principles that you suddenly have chosen to hold.

    Withholding information is very undemocratic of you.

  61. [61] 
    Kick wrote:

    Elizabeth Miller

    Chris, Kick - and, everyone!

    You rang?

    I stumbled across something just now that I can't wait to play Sunday night.

    It better be G-rated or the Warden :D will take issue with you. ;)

    We'll be focusing on favourite cover bands or songs.

    Didn't we do that already around mid July last year? *nods head*

    You played Dancing in the Streets for like the fourth and fifth time!? :)

  62. [62] 
    Kick wrote:


    Exactly! :)

  63. [63] 
    Kick wrote:

    Don Harris

    Your regular refrain regarding college being a "scam" is again duly noted. You aren't the first uneducated hotshot without a degree still living at his Mother's house to claim he was far too intelligent to be dumb enough to fall for the ruse of higher education.

    The "college cabal" is a lot like the "deep state"... except "deep thinking." I mean, who even needs that?

    Anyone that can think should be able to catch on to the scammers...

    If it's your schtick to keep claiming that everything is a scam, people will soon learn to associate you with fraud.

    Deep Thinking 101 :)

  64. [64] 
    Kick wrote:


    While you are just wishing for things to happen, wish for a pony!

    Russ is right, Don... and wish for a shovel too. :)

    Great post. Love you, Russ!

  65. [65] 
    Kick wrote:

    I'm trying to help you out here, Don.

    So I reiterate: If near every word flowing from your keyboard is your tedious perpetual grievance regarding how dang near everything or everyone under the sky is a scam, you shouldn't be the least bit surprised if people are conditioned to associate you with fraud.

    Not rocket science. :)

  66. [66] 
    Kick wrote:

    Don Harris

    You are partially right again.

    Yes, I am correct.

    I'm just speaking truth (not to power here because none of you qualify as powerful),

    As if you qualify!?

    having the courage of my convictions

    As if you could!?

    and holding people accountable here that are trolling, lying and dodging

    As if you're NOT!?

    and by doing so subverting the decorum here.

    So you're admitting to (attempting to) undermine our power while confessing your repetitive impropriety!?

    Your posts sound so much more intelligent when you fundamentally copy mine, but you shouldn't toss around words that you obviously have no idea of their meaning or people will think you're stupid.

    Hoe exactly does exposing scams make people associate me with fraud and not with exposing fraud?

    So you're saying you need your nose rubbed in it?

    Because you exemplify that which you claim to denounce. :)

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