Put The Confederacy Where It Belongs: In Museums
A generational change is now sweeping America. All of a sudden -- even in the Deep South -- it is no longer politically acceptable -- even for Republicans -- to defend the Confederacy. Mississippi has now become the last state to remove the Confederate battle flag from their own state flag. The Republican Senate voted to force the Pentagon to remove Confederate generals' names from their bases. Even more astonishing, perhaps, was the news that NASCAR has banned the Confederate battle flag from being displayed at their events. But what's most astonishing about all this is that there seem to be few defenders of the Confederate flag left in the political sphere (on the national level, at least). Other than President Donald Trump, that is.
NASCAR's flag ban is merely the most prominent example of this wave of change -- there are indeed others. But let's focus just on the flag to begin with. The Confederate States of America adopted a "national" flag early on, which was known as the "Stars and Bars." [Here's a handy link to a page with all the official Confederate flags as well as the state flags in question, in case you've never seen them.] It is very similar to the American flag, except there are fewer stars and they are arranged in a circle (as in the "Betsy Ross" American flag). It has three red-and-white stripes instead of 13. Otherwise, a very similar design. But the rebel soldiers didn't like it (the similarities to the Union flag reportedly caused confusion in at least one battle), nor did they like any of the subsequent official C.S.A. flags, instead adopting the "battle flag" with the familiar X-shaped cross filled with stars. This is the only Confederate flag most people are even aware of, often mistakenly referred to as the "Stars and Bars."
The Confederates, of course, lost the Civil War. The affected states then had to reapply to become part of the Union again, and at some point adopted their current state flags (which happened anywhere from Reconstruction to as late as the 1950s Civil Rights era). Some proudly displayed the Confederate battle flag openly. Others were more subtle in their Confederate imagery.
While Mississippi has now become the final state to get rid of the Confederate battle flag in its own banner, other Confederate references remain on at least five (and possibly six) state flags. The flags of Florida and Alabama are the easiest to decipher, with the same X-shaped cross (but without the stars) as the Confederate battle flag. Georgia and North Carolina both still use the Confederate stripes, in slightly different ways. Arkansas is the most egregious, since within the diamond are four stars. The three below the state's name signify the three countries they've belonged to (France, Spain, and the United States). But the fourth one -- which is above the word "Arkansas" -- was added as an afterthought to represent the Confederacy (this is historical fact). Tennessee's flag has been accused of also having Confederate symbols, but they are the most subtle of any of these states, so their flag is still debatable. But the others really aren't.
So while Mississippi was the final state with the actual Confederate battle flag contained on its own state flag, Confederate symbols still do exist on other states' flags. So far, this hasn't led to the same outcry. What's truly interesting about the change in Mississippi is that it came about not only because NASCAR banned the Confederate battle flag from its events, but also because the N.C.A.A. had announced that any state with Confederate imagery contained within their state flag would be blacklisted from hosting all postseason events (bowl games and championships for all the other sports). Financial pressure and being shamed by college sports (which are an enormous deal in the South) moved the legislators to act. We'll see what new flag they come up with, though -- perhaps they'll try to sneak other Confederate imagery in, since the other states mentioned have yet to face such boycotts over their existing flags.
Pressure from both amateur and professional sports (since NASCAR considers itself as such) brought about this swift change. NASCAR in particular deserves a lot of credit, because the association with Southerners racing around in cars with Confederate battle flags has always really been present in the sport. It was even memorialized in The Dukes Of Hazzard, whose muscle car was (not-subtly) named "the General Lee," and (even more blatantly) had the Confederate battle flag emblazoned on its roof. Now, all of a sudden, this flag has been banned from NASCAR events. So far, there hasn't been much outcry over this move, but then again its kind of hard to tell in the age of the pandemic, since measuring crowd size is not really possible yet. We'll see what happens when the full crowds really are allowed to return. But so far, the white Southern backlash over NASCAR banning the flag hasn't seemed to really materialize in a big way. This could always change, of course.
But what's truly astonishing is that we haven't really heard any national politicians from the South loudly defending the Confederate flag. This is a rather seismic change. Previously, whenever anyone would attack the flag as being racist, Southern politicians would strongly deny it and instead insist it was nothing more than "honoring our heritage." The heritage they spoke of was committing treason and rebellion against the United States of America for the purposes of preserving slavery, of course, but that's not exactly how they saw it. They were educated with history books that called the Civil War the "War of Northern Aggression," in fact, which pretty much sums up how most of them still felt about the whole matter.
This week, Senator Lindsey Graham of South Carolina refused to back up Donald Trump, who had tweeted out his displeasure with NASCAR banning the Confederate flag. Graham quite accurately pointed out that it wasn't exactly a great business model anymore for any professional organization to accept the flag's display -- even in the Deep South, and even at NASCAR events. The silence of Southern Republican politicians is deafening, because up until very recently they would have been out there giving their full-throated support to the flag instead. But these days, Trump seems to be fighting this culture-war battle alone.
This is a huge shift, because Republican presidential campaigns all the way back to Richard Nixon's have been using "the Southern strategy" over and over and over again. But this time around, it may not work. Trump is no longer using "dog whistles" to support racist attitudes, he is now broadcasting them by what might be called "foghorns" or perhaps "train whistles" -- because instead of being something only dogs can hear, they are so loud that they are impossible for everyone to ignore.
But no matter what Donald Trump thinks about the subject, it is definitely long past time to end the glorification of traitors to our country. The Confederacy was not the "noble cause" its current-day defenders would have everyone believe. The Civil War was fought over slavery, plain and simple. The South saw that the United States was expanding and that the new states had little interest in being admitted to the Union as slave states. Which meant that the careful power-balancing act in the Senate (which started with the Missouri Compromise in 1820) was about to end -- and they were about to become a permanent minority in Congress. Rather than face such a fate, they seceded and waged war on the United States. And then they lost.
Ever since, there has been a concerted effort to continue glorifying the Confederacy, which is why there are so many Confederate statues still out there left to come down. But, thankfully, this era appears to be at an end, or close to it at the very least. Confederate statues are indeed coming down -- even in Richmond, Virginia, the capitol of the Confederacy. Mississippi just became the last state to remove the Confederate battle flag from its own state flag. The Republican-led Senate just voted to force the Pentagon to rename all those forts still named for Confederate generals, even though Trump has threatened to veto such a move. This is indeed a generational change that is manifesting itself in many ways.
Tellingly, the public overwhelmingly seems to support such moves, no matter how much fearmongering Trump has been attempting in the meantime. In poll after poll, a whopping two-thirds of the public supports the Black Lives Matter protesters -- which is also an enormous and historical change. Consigning statues to museums where they can be placed in context rather than proudly displaying them in the public square is now widely seen as the right thing to do, at this moment in history. Not having U.S. Army bases named for generals who fought against the U.S. Army is also now seen as a no-brainer. This does not "erase" anyone's history, but it does stop the outright glorification of those who fought to preserve slavery. Such history is for museums -- because statues in the town square and state flags should be reserved for those we honor.
-- Chris Weigant
Follow Chris on Twitter: @ChrisWeigant
Hoping everyone enjoyed a very Happy Independence Day!
As usual, I was watching some of the festivities and they always get me, right here in the heart. It all seemed very different, though. Sure, there is Pandemic I. But, there's more to it, I think, as I watch one statue glorifying the Confederacy fall after another. And, it brings a careful smile to my face.
And, I realize that, despite everything and because of it, this is a fascinating time to be alive in America! So much potential, so much hope.
Change is comin’, baby. Can you feel it!
There was one of those statues here in town that was a source of endless controversy over the years. I have to admit that, whenever I drove by, I admired the orange paint that the fascist antifa BLM anarchist vandals splashed on it, but now it's gone like the wind. A couple of weeks ago, they moved it to the graveyard where the traitorous loser is buried. Sad.
Grandpa pissed his pants again
He don't give a damn
Brother Billy has both guns drawn
He ain't been right since Vietnam
Sweet home Alabama
Play that dead band's song
Turn those speakers up full blast
Play it all night long
Warren Zevon
Confederate fatso Newt Blingrich says that we have no choice but to protect racist statuary from Leftist Anti-American Theology if we want America to survive as a constitutional republic under the rule of law. BTW he's selling a new "book" about Donald the Teacher and Statue Builder. Gotta pay his Tiffany's tab.
If you quote me, you're lying.
Heh.
I'm trying to imagine this place without you, JFC but, I just can't. :)
And, to be clear because I know I'm not, always, I meant that in the very best of ways.
I clearly remember when that radical leftist anti-colonial Obama-Biden regime turned the people's White House into a deviantly rainbow-colored flag of hate. I'll bet Donald does too (or maybe that Stephen Miller vampire will tell him). Keep it up socialist demons. Keep it up. Rebel flag-loving Donald can play that game as well.
"If you quote me, you're lying."
I do wish Michale's sourced material had this disclaimer.
And I've modified my position, slightly... Perhaps this is the tip of the spear to blunt Trump and his tyranny. A Trump election win and the confederate cause should have nothing to do win each other, but Trump has handcuffed himself to this anvil and the boat is taking on water. Only Trump could pick the losing side to join AFTER the war was long over.
This can't be made up.
LL&P
ListenWhenYouHear-
Here [youtube.com] is a good recent example of why Blacks are protesting the police. Also a good example of why the officer having control of the body camera makes them basically useless.
133,322 Americans dead from Coronavirus and counting...
So "President Trump’s relentless attacks on the security of mail voting are driving suspicion among GOP voters toward absentee ballots — a dynamic alarming Republican strategists, who say it could undercut their own candidates, including Trump himself."
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/trumps-attacks-on-mail-voting-are-turning-republicans-off-absentee-ballots/2020/07/07/640b6126-bbd4-11ea-80b9-40ece9a701dc_story.html
[Sorry, don't know how to embed links properly on this website.]
Gee, my heart bleeds for them [ahem]. I asked my violinist daughter to play an appropriate sound effect, but she couldn't stop laughing long enough.
[41] Michale wrote:
"JM,
Mmmm, yet again I have to remind you that some of us do still have to work for a living Michale. We have lives and jobs outside commenting on this blog.
Well, since you are back now, why not address the point???"
You're assuming that what you had to say in a comment was actually worth my time and energy in responding to. Not every nonsensical statement you make is worth it you know. There are just too many of them to respond to each and every one! It would just take way more time than I have in a single day.
You're so cute Michale. :-)
In the above commentary, replace "CONFEDERATE" with "DEMOCRAT" and everything makes sense... :D
JM
You're assuming that what you had to say in a comment was actually worth my time and energy in responding to. Not every nonsensical statement you make is worth it you know. There are just too many of them to respond to each and every one! It would just take way more time than I have in a single day.
In other words, you have not a single fact that supports yer claim..
That's actually OK, because I forgot what the original point was.. :D
You're so cute Michale. :-)
You hittin' on me??
"I'm FATTER....er... flattered.."
-Eddie Murphy, THE NUTTY PROFESSOR
Ya'all want something else that explains all of the Democrat Party's problems??
Dianne Feinstein... 60 years in government..
Chuck Schumer... 45 years in government..
Maxine Waters... 47 years in government..
Patrick Leahy... 54 years in government..
Joe Biden... 51 years in government..
Nancy Pelosi... 33 years in government..
President Donald Trump???
4 years in government..
Yet, according to the Democrat/AntiFa/BlackLiesMatter Party, everything is President Donald Trump's fault..
Democrat-think.... :eyeroll:
Wow... So much "Michale" in the forum, even before I wake up.. :D
Funny... :D
OK, before I get to FPC, here's a point I want to address to Liz and JL..
I mean, anyone else can address it, but they are the only ones who, yunno, actually THINK about things..
It's been claimed on this forum several times that The Democrat/AntiFa/BlackLiesMatter Party isn't really serious about defunding/abolishing the police.. That's it's just a mouthy few, that no one in the Democrat/AntiFa/BlackLiesMatter Party really wants to defund/abolish the police..
'Squad' Dems Tlaib, Pressley introduce bill to defund police, give reparations
The House passed a sweeping police reform bill last month, but the legislation failed to move forward in the Senate
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/squad-dems-tlaib-pressley-introduce-bill-bill-to-defund-police-give-reparations
So, it's clear that abolishing/defunding the police is NOT just a mouthy few, but rather a Party plank...
My question to JL and Liz is this..
How do you think the American people will react to these attempts by The Democrat/AntiFa/BlackLiesMatter Party to make anarchy the standard for the United States Of America???
Do ya'all honestly believe that this is the way for The Democrat/AntiFa/BlackLiesMatter Party to win Americans' votes??
OK FPC time..
'Nuck
I'm disturbed by, " I LOVE BANGING TEN YR OLD GIRLS
I am too.. Talk it over with Blathy. It's HIS bumper sticker on HIS Prius...
Now look, I'm all for the playful banter and the back and forth tussle that comes with political debate, but I see ZERO need to evoke discussion along those lines.
But background checks on commenters and their children is perfectly acceptable to you??
You see, that is why it's simply IMPOSSIBLE to take you seriously.. As long as it's a Democrat who is doing the attacking and it's a Trump Supporter who is being attacked, *ANYTHING* and *EVERYTHING* is acceptable to you..
You are a slave to your ideology and your ideology determines your morals.. Or in your case, lack thereof...
Perhaps if you actually showed some integrity in your condemnations you might not be such a miserable person..
But I make a comment about Blathy's sick bumper sticker and maybe that's why he attracts the attention of LEOs and, all of the sudden you say I am a horrible person..
But Vick gets her ass kicked in the forum hourly and, in retaliation, does background checks on me and my children and then threatens me if I don't toe her line..
THAT is perfectly acceptable to you..
Do you see how someone who is objective would think yer frak'ed in the head???
Your politics are diametric, yet you both ally. You both bang on about facts and are happy with a lie. It makes me wonder, and I ask myself why, when opposites attract, all you can hope for is a negotiated tie.
And yer opinion has absolutely NO FACTS to support..
But you DO bring up an interesting point..
If 2 people are polar opposites in almost every way and they BOTH think yer a jerk and an asshole...
Maybe there is something to their opinion, eh??
Think about it.. If you have the cajones to look in the mirror honestly..
...Oh, and before it's ignored, I see the US govt (GOP religious zealots) have used CV19 to reward the degenerate religious sect of society with 7 billion USD in 'guaranteed' government loans.
And, once again.. Not a SINGLE fact to be found..
It's yer trademark...
'nuck,
Now there's a debate about opening schools while CV19 cases are literally off the charts.
This isn't going to change in a month and a half, wake the fuck up.
And once again, your ignorant ideological slavery rears it's ugly head..
Answer a question.. Why is it perfectly acceptable to send out tens of thousands of people to attack and kill cops, loot and burn and destroy American culture....
But it's NOT OK to send children to school...
Do you see how utterly illogical your position is and why it's so easy to condemn en masse as nothing but ideological slavery???
Because there is absolutely NO LOGIC or objectivity to your positions at all..
Your positions are NOTHING but ideological slavery..
And THAT is why they are so easy to shoot down and tear to shreds..
Of course, you'll ignore this like you ignore all the other facts that prove yer nothing but an ideological slave..
MC,
Michale' wrote:
Obviously my setup has a different numbering system than ya'all's…
Obviously your reality has a different address than our'all's…
Whatever you have to tell yerself to get thru your miserable and pathetic existence.
Uh.. Hay.. Weren't you supposed to be ignoring me???
Why should people accept your advice when you can't even follow it yerself??
[2] Elizabeth Miller wrote:
"Hoping everyone enjoyed a very Happy Independence Day!
As usual, I was watching some of the festivities and they always get me, right here in the heart."
If you, as a Canadian, can still get caught up in American patriotism, then I don't think we have to be all doom and gloom about America's decline in the world just yet. Those that gleefully promote such a scenario always seem to be just way too premature.
Perhaps one of our strengths, that they seem to ignore, is that: America lays bare for all the world to see our dirty laundry, and the way we struggle to renew ourselves and to make ourselves better, to live up to the ideals we espouse, and the many ways in which we fail and fall short. We let the world watch, both fascinated and horrified, the whole messy process of sausage making, in a society more open than others, including ourselves at times, are comfortable with. Does anyone really imagine the Russians, the Chinese, the Saudis, the Iranians, or the North Koreans, allowing the world to watch such a societal transformation in real time? The only other time I can think of, was when communism collapsed in all of Eastern Europe.
Not only is America going thru a sweeping change, but it still inspires and influences others too... witness the immediate similar reactions and protest marches that took place in areas as diverse and distant as London, Germany, Australia, etc. Yes, America is damaged, we were never perfect, but we are not permanently broken just yet to the point that we can never recover.
I might also add: and do so relatively peacefully, in a democratic way, and not in the throes of a violent revolution, like did happen in Iran in 1979, or Russia in 1917, etc., with poor outcomes. The only other recent ones I can think of besides Eastern Europe, were the People Power revolution and the overthrow of Marcos in the Philippines, and the election of Nelson Mandela in South Africa.
Russ,
Utter bullshit! Anyone who repeats the same lies even after those lies have been thoroughly debunked with actual evidence is not someone looking to have an honest conversation! Take this one, for instance:
Do you have any facts to support that claim??
No, you don't..
You see, that's yer problem Russ.. You make a bunch of grandiose claims without ANY facts and then you turn around and accuse me of doing the same thing.
And yet, it's readily acknowledged by everyone here that CW has publicly chastised me ***BECAUSE I POST TOO MANY FACTS***..
So, you can see why it's impossible to take things you say seriously because you NEVER have any relevant facts to support your claims..
But hay... You can always start.. Make a claim and give a relevant fact to back it up..
This from a man who thinks a judge ordering him to register as a sex offender for the public’s safety allows him to claim that he was in “public safety” for 25 years!
Again. NO FACTS to support the claim..
And plus, you ignore the FACTUAL point I made and dodged it with your fact-less bullshit claim.
And THAT is your posting process....
I shouldn't say you "never" address any of my points.. You made it clear when you said "BOO-HOO" in response to all the black little children being slaughtered over 4th of July weekend that you really don't give a rat's ass about black American lives.
So, yes, you did address THAT point and prove what a disgusting human being you actually are..
This is a perfect example of how your FACTS are rarely factual! You argue that when people say they want to “defund the police”, what they truly mean is that they want to “abolish the police”.
AND I have produced FACTS that PROVE it's the case...
That's always the part you leave out..
I'll do it again, right now...
Yes, We Mean Literally Abolish the Police
nytimes.com/2020/06/12/opinion/sunday/floyd-abolish-defund-police.html
The police abolition movement is a political movement in the United States that advocates replacing policing with other systems of public safety.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Police_abolition_movement
You see..
FACTS
Now where are your facts that show that people DON'T say or mean "Abolish The Police"..
You have none....
Hell, as I PROVED above, your Democrat/AntiFa/BlackLiesMatter Party has actually put forth legislation.... REAL legislation.. to abolish the police..
Once again..
I have FACTS... You have NONE...
As your supposed proof, you share an article from a woman who unashamedly declares that she believes it would be best to ABOLISH the police... she does not mince words! She is not in the “defund police” camp — although I am sure she would accept that as an alternative to things remaining the status quo.
You mean, as my "supposed proof" of "You argue that when people say they want to “defund the police”, what they truly mean is that they want to “abolish the police”. I provide FACTS of people who are actually meaning ABOLISH THE POLICE..
Why yes.. Yes I do..
So when I say people mean ABOLISH POLICE and then provide FACTS that people do, indeed, mean ABOLISH POLICE, you somehow have a problem with it??
You claim I never have facts of people saying they mean ABOLISH POLICE and then turn right around and PROVE that I have facts that people mean ABOLISH POLICE..
Can you possibly comprehend how frak'ed up your arguments are???
You see, this is the EXACT problem when you "debate" from a position of Party slavery with not a single solitary independent thought...
YOUR Party wants to abolish police, Russ... Deal with it...
"You've already betrayed your people, Admiral. You've made your choices, sir. You're a traitor. Now, if the bitter taste of that is unpalatable to you, I am truly sorry. "
-Captain Jean Luc Picard
JM,
I might also add: and do so relatively peacefully, in a democratic way, and not in the throes of a violent revolution,
You mean, like is happening now here in the US with your Democrat/AntiFa/BlackLiesMatter Party??
Ignoring the facts do not make them any less factual, yunno..
I'll ask you the same question I asked Liz and JL..
Do you think all the violence and cop killings and cop hate and destroying America culture and looting and burning is the best way that your Democrat/AntiFa/BlackLiesMatter Party can attract Americans and their votes??
Serious question...
My guess is you'll either deny it's happening or ignore that it's happening and deflect the question....
The silence of Southern Republican politicians is deafening, because up until very recently they would have been out there giving their full-throated support to the flag instead.
The silence of the entire Democrat/AntiFa/BlackLiesMatter Party when AntiFa and BlackLiesMatter are killing people in the streets doesn't seem to bother any of ya'all..
So, why should the silence of Senate Republican politicians bother ya???
Ah yes, that's right... It's nothing but a Party agenda... No morality needed...
Suggestion... Before you become morally indignant about the silence of Republicans, maybe you should take a gander and clean up yer OWN house first..
As I said.. Just a suggestion...
I mean, it hasn't even been DISCUSSED the orgy of death and violence over the 4th of July Weekend at the hands of AntiFa and BlackLiesMatter, the Direct Action arms of the Democrat Party...
So, I would... with the UTMOST and SINCERE respect... suggest before condemning others, one looks at the mess of their own house first..
Again, just a suggestion, delivered with love and respect.. :D
"Welp, I can't do any more damage around this Popsicle stand."
-Robin Williams, ALADDIN
:D
On another note...
HAPPY ROSWELL DAY
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roswell_UFO_incident
:D
JONES: I Am Black And I Am A Democrat. But ‘I Ain’t’ Voting For Joe Biden This November
Since that day in May when I announced I would support Donald Trump for president, my motives have been questioned, my integrity assailed, even my intelligence challenged. That’s okay.
I’m a lifelong Democrat, but I am also a black man, the son of a World War II veteran and a proud American.
In recent weeks, there have been absurd calls to defund and disband police departments across the country by Democrats in response to the unjust murder of George Floyd. These are extreme calls that will only lead to more pain and suffering in our most vulnerable communities.
https://dailycaller.com/2020/07/07/jones-i-am-black-and-i-am-a-democrat-but-i-aint-voting-for-joe-biden-this-november/
Title... Couple Paragraphs... Link CHECK
This is why The Democrat/AntiFa/BlackLiesMatter Party is going to fail big time in Nov..
They ignore Americans like Vernon Jones...
Even Rep Jones acknowledges the Party's effort to defund/abolish the police and points out how utterly STOOPID it is..
But yunno something hilarious..
ALL of ya'all **AGREE** with me and Rep Jones that it's a completely and utterly stoopid idea..
THAT's why ya'all deny that the Democrat/AntiFa/BlackLiesMatter Party is doing it..
Because ALL OF YA'ALL recognize what an utterly bone head and stoopid idea it is..
So, we are ALL in agreement.. Which is a rare occurrence here in Weigantia..
We *ALL* agree that defunding and/or abolishing the police is utterly stoopid...
Ya'all's problem is that it's become a Party plank of your Democrat/AntiFa/BlackLiesMatter Party....
Which does not bode well for ya'all's Party in Nov.. As I am sure the LOGICAL and RATIONAL Weigantians among us agree...
Common ground. Very nice..
"Detente. It's a wonderful thing."
-Maureen Robinson, LOST IN SPACE
:D
[21] Stop being so fucking lazy.
https://www.newsweek.com/religious-organizations-receive-73-billion-ppp-loans-megachurches-amass-millions-1515963
Read it and stfu.
You have read outside The Drudge Report to find out what's happening outside of your shrinking political bubble. Stop acting like a fucking clown, send yer kids back school, it's nothing to me, I don't pay your medical bills or funerary costs when the fam family starts to drop. If you think every cock-eyed command from Trump is the gospel, comply...but don't come into this space and expect sympathy for your stupidity when it all goes pear-shaped... And even you know it will.
LL&P
Rep Jones was the head of one of the largest Police agencies in Georgia..
He knows first hand what it's like to lose officers.. To lose family and comfort their survivors in the middle of the night...
The problem here is that the Democrat/AntiFa/BlackLiesMatter Party has become a Party of cop haters...
While I bitch slap Russ unmercifully in here at times (OK OK most times) and his complete and utter inability to have ANY facts when he tries his personal attacks against me, I do admire his steadfast support of Law Enforcement in the face of the cop-hating and cop-killing Democrat Party...
And when Russ totally grounds Blathy into the ground, I love it..
Not that I like Russ any more due to his blatant fact-less personal attacks on me and my family..
But the enemy of my enemy.. :D
q'OaStaHvuIS wa' ramn loSSSaD HoGh SIjlaHt qeItbogh loDD
The enemy of my enemy is the enemy I kill last
-Klingon Proverb
In any case, back to the cop-hating cop-killing Democrat/AntiFa/BlackLiesMatter Party...
Again, the question MUST be asked..
Does ANYONE here honestly believe that the Party's cop-hating and cop-killing positions will win them American votes in Nov???
I mean, seriously.. Who could POSSIBLY believe that???
You have read outside The Drudge Report to find out what's happening outside of your shrinking political bubble.
Actually, I rarely read THE DRUDGE REPORT..
Once again, your "facts" are found wanting..
send yer kids back school, it's nothing to me,
Son, my kids are long out of school...
And, that's a pretty lame dodge to avoid answering your total ideological based stoopidity..
What is it "playing chicken" to send kids to school, but you are perfectly OK with sending tens of thousands of Democrat/AntiFa/BlackLiesMatter scumbags to kill cops, destroy American culture and brutally murder little kids..
Can you answer the question or are you just going to dodge and deflect???
.but don't come into this space and expect sympathy for your stupidity when it all goes pear-shaped... And even you know it will.
You mean, you HOPE it will so you can gloat..
Son, I have been out and about constantly for the last 3-4+ months.. I have been thru hospitals and Dr Offices, never wore a mask, am in a high risk group and I haven't had a LICK of an issue...
So please.. Your hopes and wishes for my sickness and demise are touching but totally misplaced..
I was here before you ever even THOUGHT of Weigantia...
And I'll be here long after you run away in shame because President Trump won a second term by landslide with 60% of black American votes..
Trump forgets recent calamities in his push to open schools
Washington (CNN)President Donald Trump's new push to open schools shows he's learned nothing from calamities sparked by his demands for premature state openings.
The coronavirus pandemic is again rearing out of control, rising in a majority of states as a new warning comes that more than 200,000 Americans could be dead by Election Day. The United States on Tuesday recorded 60,021 new cases of the virus, a new single day record.
https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/08/politics/donald-trump-schools-coronavirus-education/index.html
I wish someone could explain to me (with facts would also be nice) why it's perfectly acceptable for the Democrat/AntiFa/BlackLiesMatter Party to send tens of thousands of AntiFa and BlackLiesMatter scumbags out into the streets to hate on and kill cops, kill little children, destroy American culture and generally loot and burn.....
Yet it is UNACCEPTABLE to send children to school...
Can anyone explain that with facts to support???
No?? Of course not..
I read something a couple days (or more) ago I found so frakin' hilarious..
Dumbocrats actually tried to sell the story that there was NO THREAT of infection when people are out protesting...
That's right...
PROTESTING, and by extension, burning and looting and destroying America culture and killing cops and little children poses NO THREAT of getting infected or spreading the infection..
But that going to school IS "playing chicken"..
Can someone explain to me this totally MORONIC and STOOPID position???
Liz, I believe it was you who implored me to think of other people when I go out in the world.. I think you said something like I had a responsibility to society to obey lockdown rules and not be a threat to spread the infection..
If it wasn't you, my apologies.. But the sincere and genuine concern makes me think it was you..
I gotta ask you...
How do you reconcile that sane and sincere and compassionate advice with the Democrat Party encouraging people to go out and protest and destroy???
I would really love to hear your views on how those two diametrically opposed concepts are compatible..
But let's do something I am not well known for..
Let's address the subject of the commentary and ya'all's irrational and hysterical hatred of the Confederate Battle Flag...
I can do it with one easy picture..
http://sjfm.us/pics/flags.jpg
Remember... The right to swing ya'all's arms ends where someone else's nose begins..
In other words, ya'all hysterically defend ya'all's symbol's of hate and destruction and brutal killing etc etc etc.. And then you decry other symbols that you THINK are the same thing...
Logic and rational thought is not a big thing with ya'all, is it??
Class dismissed
"What is it "playing chicken" to send kids to school, but you are perfectly OK with sending tens of thousands of Democrat/AntiFa/BlackLiesMatter scumbags to kill cops, destroy American culture and brutally murder little kids.."
No I'm not ok with, actually, the one here that thinks I am is you. You keep saying it, without a shred of your vaunted facts. Zero in on any of posts, Mr 'I've been haunting this space for eons', that even suggest I support any of that shit. You can't because I don't, but that won't bother you, having so few arrows in your quiver, they're blunt and spent... You need new material, which makes you a failed troll.
Like Trump, you can even fail at failing, a sad but predictable truth considering your closed mind and humourless nature.
Keep up not being a diligent citizen and patriot by not wearing a mask when needed, I'm sure your social circle all feel the same way. I'll put my Darwinism up against your blind faith any day, twice on Sundays.
LL&P
"Class dismissed"
You may well have dismissed your class, you couldn't help it, Trump has set such a classless tone.
Be smarter, be quiet.
LL&P
And now, for a heavy splash of reality for ya'all..
Victory is close for Trump, despite the noise
Four months ago, buoyed by a record-setting economy, a long-overdue challenge to China and scenes of American soldiers returning home from wasteful wars, Donald Trump was cruising toward re-election.
Since then, much has changed, including what voters care about.
A pandemic not yet ready to surrender has forced us indoors, away from work and distanced from each other. Gatherings are no longer completely safe. Jobs are no longer completely secure. Major league sports are having major league challenges re-opening to fans. Zoom is no longer an adjective for speed but a product refracting our inertia.
https://thehill.com/opinion/campaign/506133-victory-is-close-for-trump-despite-the-noise
Title... Couple of paragraphs... Link.... CHECK...
And now, for the FACTS...
Our nation's political landscape has roiled and shifted faster and deeper than my ribs before my latest surgery...
This is evidenced by how a simple police arrest that resulted in death has so exacerbated the hysterical tendencies of the Democrat/AntiFa/BlackLiesMatter Party.. We know that the actual event was really not a big deal.. We know this because we can postulate what would have happened if George Floyd had been white..
Namely... Absolutely nothing would have happened..
Again.. Just the facts...
We look at today's hysterical claims from the Democrat Party and, when we think back to this time in 2016, the hysterical claims NOT having to do with the pandemic are identical..
The same clueless morons are using the same polls to spew the same BS as if it has any relevance or basis in reality...
Again.. This is fact..
We also see, once again, how the Democrat Party and it's Direct Action sections are over-extending themselves and spreading hate and discord, not realizing that every day Americans don't hate like the Democrat Party wants them to hate..
What the Democrat Party and it's Direct Action sections are doing is pushing tens of millions of American voters into President Trump's camp..
Rep Jones above is a perfect example of this..
Again.. FACT...
We can compare and contrast the actions of President Trump with the cowardice of Joe Biden..
President Trump is like a front line soldier out there in front LEADING...
Joe Biden is like a REMF, sitting behind the back lines, a back-office weenie who trembles and quakes at the sounds of the battle far to the FEBA...
That's not fact, but rather opinion BASED on facts..
The economy under President Trump's leadership has grown after suffering a devastating wound and the malfeasance of organizations like WHO and the CDC (AKA Center For Gun Control) and the Democrat Party who felt that making up crimes and attempting a coup thru a faux impeachment was a BETTER way to address the coming Pandemic..
Finally, President Trump's record on race relations is un-matched in it's far reaching eye on justice..
It's NOT an exaggeration to claim that President Trump has done more for black Americans in his first two years of office than Democrats have done in four decades...
THIS is fact...
Which is why President Trump's black American support in Nov is going to be thru the roof and silence all the nay-sayers here who said it would never happen... (as an aside, to those who made wagers based on black American support in the voting in Nov, I am still willing to back up those wagers if ya'all are.. I can understand why ya'all might be hesitant, looking at my earlier proclamation as a savior that ya'all will be able to keep your money.. :D I won't think any less of ya'all (even MC) if ya'all choose to back out..)
Finally, President Trump's raison d'être. The economy.. As I said above (but got side-tracked by the utter stoopidty and un-American activities of the Democrat Party) the economy is coming back... Given the 119 days until the election, President Trump will prove why not a single Democrat can hold a candle to President Trump's leadership...
Yunno.... I kinda LIKE this new format.. Re-writing the articles with my own flair..... And still with FACTS abound.. :D
I think it will work out just grandly...
In closing, for all these reasons and so much more, Democrats do not stand a chance in beating President Trump in 119 days..
I salute ya'all's stiff upper lip and your holding on to your delusions, but this is pre-ordained..
Just as it was in Nov of 2016...
"Nobody likes you.. Everyone hates you. Yer gonna lose. Smile ya fuck"
-Bruce Willis, THE LAST BOYSCOUT
:D I mean that in the nicest and most sincerest manner possible...
No I'm not ok with, actually, the one here that thinks I am is you.
And yet, you said nothing when the Democrat Party and it's Direct Action sections encouraged everyone to take to the streets..
By the Weigantian Charlottesville Rule, that means your OK with it.. You give assent and approval to it..
But *NOW* because you have been called out on it, NOW you claim you are NOT OK with it..
OK, fine... Let's hear you condemn the Democrat Party for it's actions in encouraging people take to the streets..
Go ahead... Condemn it in the manner you condemn President Trump..
Baaaahhh You see?? You can't.. Because your ideological slavery prevents you from doing it..
Yunno.. when you made the claim that you are NOT OK with the Democrat Party's encouragement of protests and people taking to the streets and burning and looting, I expected you to at least give LIP SERVICE to condemning it in your subsequent paragraphs...
But, of course, there was no condemnation.. So, by ya'all's own Charlottesville Rule, you approve of the Democrat Party sending people out into the streets to protest and loot and burn and kill cops and little children...
I am glad you finally declared yourself..
Google NASCAR revenue decline and you discover the real motive for banishing the Stars & Bars from sedan based motor sports. NASCAR needs more asses in the seats (real, or virtual seats), and doesn't care about their color, creed or national origin.
Banishing Confederate statues to museums is largely propelled, or at the very least lubricated, by financial considerations. Public display of Confederate Symbols is considered to be bad for business. If it takes financial pressure from the plutocrats (and the politicians that serve them) to do the right thing, than I'm good with that.
You may well have dismissed your class, you couldn't help it, Trump has set such a classless tone.
And yet, he kicked Hillary's ass and wiped the floor with the Democrat Party..
At EVERY juncture, President Trump wiped the floor with the Democrat Party...
Ya'all's Russia Collusion delusion that *YOU* put so much faith in.. You disappeared crying in your wheaties when President Trump was COMPLETELY exonerated.. Of course, you deny the FACT that he was.. It's the only way you can hold onto your sanity is to cling to the delusion..
And then there was The Democrat Party's faux impeachment coup where they had the advantage of actually simply MAKING UP crimes..
*** AND THEY STILL GOT THEIR ASSES HANDED TO THEM!!! ***
So, if THAT is what having no class means... If having no class means that ya ALWAYS win... **ALWAYS**
Well, I'll be the first to agree with you that President Trump has no class...
And, once again... YOU lose.. :D
"Nobody likes you.. Everyone hates you. Yer gonna lose. Smile ya fuck"
-Bruce Willis, THE LAST BOYSCOUT
[51]
TheStig wrote: blaa blaa blaa blaa
And here I read that Stig said he was never going to post here again..
And yet.. here he is...
Hmmmmmmmmmmm
A Primer On Democrat Party and their Direct Action sections and the way they think...
http://sjfm.us/pics/pearl.jpg
The complete and utter idiocy of Left Wing think....
National Guard To Deploy In Atlanta, Gov. Declares State Of Emergency After 31 People Shot Over Weekend
For weeks demonstrators have staked out a spot near Wendy’s where Rayshard Brooks was killed after a violent police confrontation to protest his death and race-based police brutality. Just 24 hours after her death, three more people were shot, and two died, at the same location, according to the Atlanta Journal Constitution.
“They say Black lives matter,” said Turner’s father Secoriya Williamson in a press conference. “You killed your own.”
On late Saturday and early Sunday, 14 others were wounded, with two fatalities at a “huge party” that ended in gunfire in Atlanta, according to the AJC.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/alexandrasternlicht/2020/07/06/national-guard-to-deploy-in-atlanta-gov-declares-state-of-emergency-after-31-people-shot-over-weekend/?fbclid=IwAR0CDyOK-4YUQh6haEvjpNKqrsd8D2erZUzcS_G7OQj02aXnZgoXm9IWZP8#5681da8a6490
Again, the illogic of the Democrat Party and it's Direct Action sections on display for all to see..
They CLAIM black lives matter..
And yet, they are all out killing black Americans by the dozen...
THIS is the Democrat Party ya'all think will win in Nov???
On what planet???
Indeed, the Declaration of Independence is essentially America’s breakup letter with the world’s most powerful empire, explaining why, try as we might, it’s really just not working anymore, and we can’t keep going like this. But the Declaration of Independence is much more than that. It is a profound statement of timeless and genuinely revolutionary principles of human liberty. For the first time in history, the ideas of “consent of the governed” and “unalienable rights” were proclaimed unequivocally.
So believed Frederick Douglass, an American slave born in February 1818. Douglass’s seminal 1852 address, “What to the Slave Is the Fourth of July?”, is best known for his powerful, resounding, and emotive denunciation of slavery. But what most people do not know about the speech is how highly he spoke of the Declaration of Independence and its signers, warts and all.
“I have said that the Declaration of Independence is the ring-bolt to the chain of your nation’s destiny,” Douglass said of Jefferson’s brainchild. “The principles contained in that instrument are saving principles. Stand by those principles, be true to them on all occasions, in all places, against all foes, and at whatever cost.”
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/frederick-douglass-would-stand-up-for-the-jefferson-memorial
And the Democrat Party and it's Direct Action sections want to destroy all remnants of Frederick Douglass and his wisdom...
Why??
Because his wisdom is part of American culture.. And the Democrat Party hate America and it's culture...
That's why the Democrat Party will lose and lose big in Nov...
OK Gonna take a break... :D
Almost 60 comments... I be a busy one.. :D
"Facts are stupid things" - Ronnie Raygun
Comment # 50.
"Facts are stupid things" - Ronnie Raygun
Comment # 50.
It was a misquote by Saint Ronald Reagan..
Like when Odumbo said he has campaigned in all 57 states...
A slip of the tongue apropos of any actual meaning....
B F D
Of course that's the Dumbocrat Party in all it's "glory"...
I still find it LAUGHABLE that ya'all think Dumbocrats can win in Nov.. :D
They have absolutely NOTHING going for them but dead cops, dead little children and the attempted destruction of American culture...
Comment #63
But hay, JFC..
If you want to play dueling quotes..
"Unless we do something about this, my children are going to grow up in a jungle, the jungle being a racial jungle with tensions built so high that it is going to explode at some point. We have got to make some move on this."
Joe Biden
Oh?? You want more???
"We have predators on our streets that society has in fact, in part because of its neglect, created."
Joe Biden in defense of the 1994 Crime Bill which it is universally agreed that it targeted black Americans...
What??? You say those are all old quotes???
"If you have to think about who you are going to vote for, you ain't black."
-Joe Biden, 2020
Something else current??
"Poor kids are just as smart as white kids."
-Joe Biden, 2019
I could go on and on...
And will..
Well, they have to deal with the — look, there’s institutional segregation in this country. And from the time I got involved, I started dealing with that. Redlining, banks, making sure we are in a position where — look, you talk about education. I propose that what we take the very poor schools, the Title I schools, triple the amount of money we spend from $15 to $45 billion a year. Give every single teacher a raise to the $60,000 level.
Number two, make sure that we bring in to help the teachers deal with the problems that come from home. The problems that come from home. We have one school psychologist for every 1,500 kids in America today. It’s crazy. The teachers are — I’m married to a teacher, my deceased wife is a teacher. They have every problem coming to them. Make sure that every single child does, does in fact, have 3-, 4- and 5-year-olds go to school. Not day care, school.
We bring social workers into homes of parents to help them deal with how to raise their children. It’s not that they don’t want to help, they don’t want — they don’t know quite what to do. Play the radio, make sure the television — excuse me, make sure you have the record player on at night, the phone — make sure that kids hear words. A kid coming from a very poor school — a very poor background — will hear 4 million words fewer spoken by the time they get there.
-Joe Biden
So, seriously, JFC... You want to play LET'S QUOTE PEOPLE???
You'll lose... As you just did..
Liz,
Just so you know, it bothers me more than a little all these attacks on Biden..
Solely because I know it bothers you...
But what else can I do?? I mean, at least my Biden comments are FACTS... Whereas the daily, oft times HOURLY President Trump attacks are nothing but mind-reading, assumptions, party slavery and outright BS...
If I had another way to get the facts out there vis a vis the competence of Joe Biden vs President Trump, I would...
But I don't...
I just want you to know I don't do it cavalierly w/o any thought to how it bugs you...
It honestly bugs me that it bugs you..
But, given the circumstances, I see no other choice... Biden made the conscious decision to run against President Trump.. He had to know what he was getting into....
"afw'ein Mnhei'sahe"
-Romulan proverb
Just wanted you to know...
John M,
"If you, as a Canadian, can still get caught up in American patriotism, then I don't think we have to be all doom and gloom about America's decline in the world just yet. Those that gleefully promote such a scenario always seem to be just way too premature.
"Perhaps one of our strengths, that they seem to ignore, is that: America lays bare for all the world to see our dirty laundry, and the way we struggle to renew ourselves and to make ourselves better, to live up to the ideals we espouse, and the many ways in which we fail and fall short.
"We let the world watch, both fascinated and horrified, the whole messy process of sausage making, in a society more open than others, including ourselves at times, are comfortable with."
All of that was so worth repeating, for starters - subject matter for a whole 'nother CW column! :)
I believe it was a former Russian ambassador to the UN or to the US who wrote an editorial in the New York Times (or was it the Washington Post - I'm going to try to find it) during the Trump impeachment public proceedings expressing just the kind of sentiments you wrote here. I believe it brought a tear to my eye reading how this prominent Russian was basically cheerleading for America during a difficult time.
Granted, I don't come across many people who feel the way I do about the US but, then again, rarely do I meet anyone who knows who Joe Biden really is, either. And, he is the one who, more than anyone or anything else, informed my views on America and, more importantly, the promise of America.
So, when you have lost me, that will be the time to really worry. That hasn't happened, yet and I remain hopeful that it never will. :)
By the way, did you listen to that 17-minute Dylan tune I linked to in the last CW Sunday Music Festival and Dance Party? America began her slide on the day that they killed President Kennedy. From that moment until now, while progress has been made toward a better union, so much more progress is needed. I no longer believe that the truth about the Kennedy assassinations must be told in order to make that progress. Simply, the pubic interest must reign supreme again.
Michale,
Don't worry about my feelings toward your next president or about the things you write about him, here.
We, Biden and I, are both more than strong enough to withstand the onslaught. :)
Because, Michale, the biggest difference between your guy and my guy is heart. Trump doesn't have any and Biden is overflowing with it.
I think that Washington NFL team should change their name to something more appropriate like the Predators and, since they're looking for a fresh start, I would suggest changing the team colors to Day-Glo orange and white. Maybe a great white shark for the mascot.
BTW - I wonder which is worse for Nazi Drumpf and the Greedy Old Predators - their sinister decision to sacrifice old people (their base) to the Trump Virus or their sinister decision to bar geezers (their base) from voting by mail when they're afraid they'll die from the Trump Virus if they go outside. They must be very confident about their cheating.
The End is near.
I'll be posting a tune about that at this Sunday's CW Sunday Music Festival and Dance Party. Be there!
JFC[57],
Truer words were never spoken or written in a comment here. :)
Democrats see victory in Trump culture war
Democrats are taking aggressive steps to highlight President Trump’s focus on the hot-button cultural topics of race and heritage, betting it will play to their party’s advantage in November.
Democrats have embraced the Black Lives Matter campaign, and are now moving swiftly to carve out a clear distinction between the parties when it comes to issues of racial injustice.
https://thehill.com/homenews/house/506295-democrats-see-victory-in-culture-war
Well, I guess that answers THAT question..
The Democrat Party and it's Direct Action sections ARE going with the idea of pushing the Black Lies Matter terrorist group..
Even though it's perfectly clear that, based on the FACTS, black lives DON'T matter to the Democrat Party...
But, apparently, Black LIES *DO* matter.. :eyeroll:
Hay.. If the Dumbocrat Party and it's Direct Action sections want to drive headlong into a political slaughter...???
I'll gladly give them gas money.... :D
JFC,
It has been all coming back to me, these last days and weeks.
When you first came here, I didn't have the first clue about you and that was probably crystal clear in the comments sections.
Now, I see you as an integral part of Weigantia - in more ways than one! :)
Liz,
Because, Michale, the biggest difference between your guy and my guy is heart. Trump doesn't have any and Biden is overflowing with it.
That's a very superflous and mystical notion..
"Heart" doesn't matter if you have been in Washington for 50 odd years and haven't accomplished a damn thing..
Where as President Trump in his first 2 years in office did a LOT for black Americans..
Criminal Justice reform.. Jobs... RESPECT...
Democrats may be able to play the metaphysical transcendental intersectionality card....
But that really doesn't mean shit to people who want JOBS and RESPECT and a good life...
In that regard, President Trump wins hands down...
Don't worry about my feelings toward your next president or about the things you write about him, here.
We, Biden and I, are both more than strong enough to withstand the onslaught. :)
Fair enough...
I just wanted you to know how I feel... What is in my heart.. :D
"Will somebody please tell me that everything is going to be alright ..."
http://www.chrisweigant.com/2016/11/08/get-out-and-vote/#comment-87742
I did...
And it was...
And will be again... :D
Have ya asked yourself what yer gonna do when President Trump wins re-election, Liz??
"Don't worry, Steve.. This is going to work.."
"I know it will. Because I don't know what I'll do if it doesn't..."
-AVENGERS ENDGAME
What you gonna do when I'm gone? Who you gonna turn to when you just can't carry on? Who you gonna run to when it's OVER!?
They'll be rocking in the projects
Walking down along the strand
Freddie, get ready, rock steady
When Johnny strikes up the band
Johnny is my main man
He's the keeper of the keys
He'll put your mind at ease
He's guaranteed to please
Back by popular demand
Warren Zevon
Who sang that? :)
No, not THAT one!
Even if we ignore the President Trump/Biden throw down there is one fact that totally disproves the claim that Democrats and their Direct Action sections will prevail..
The Democrat Party has decided to emphasize their actions with black Americans..
I mean, think about it..
It's an established FACT that President Trump has done more for black Americans in his first 2 years than Democrats have done in the last 40+ years..
FACT... Undeniable inarguable FACT..
This being the case, WHY on earth would the Democrat Party play to President Trump's strength???
The *ONLY* thing stupider is that Democrats play to the economy, on which President Trump is untouchable...
So, regardless of the Trump/Biden match-up, it's clear that the Democrat Party is throwing the election..
There is simply NO WAY Democrats can win..
This one's for you, Michale, I hope you have powerful speakers!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8g1231eTbpM
:-)
The *ONLY* thing stupider is that Democrats play to the economy, on which President Trump is untouchable...
Oh, Michale, President Trump is only untouchable on the economy if Tim Geithner doesn't chime in on the economy and the magical thinking of Republicans on this matter.
Where is the former Treasury Secretary when you really need him? Right here in these comments sections when it becomes absolutely necessary, naturally.
i think CW said it best in the last paragraph of his column:
This does not "erase" anyone's history, but it does stop the outright glorification of those who fought to preserve slavery.
if he really wants to be seen as a president who did things to help african-americans, i think donald should rethink his knee-jerk resistance to such a harmless and moral restructuring.
JL
Joshua,
What if it isn't such a knee-jerk reaction for him?
I used to see it that way but, I don't anymore.
If Trump can't get behind an effort to stop the glorification of the Confederacy and its aims against the United States of America - and, worse still, doubles down on that same glorification - then there is no hope for him changing his ways or thinking.
Trump insulted UK's May, called Germany's Merkel 'stupid' in calls: report
https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/505182-trump-insulted-uks-may-called-germanys-merkel-stupid-in-calls-report
This a weird WTF that slipped by last week with all the other stuff going on. Why would Trump do such a thing? Purely because they are women in power? I feel like this needs more airtime. How is it acceptable that the President acts this way to foreign leaders? Not only is it insulting, it's his dam job to represent the United States and he is doing a piss poor job of it.
it's his dam job to represent the United States and he is doing a piss poor job of it.
Well, that right there is a pipe dream if there ever was one. Ahem.
Whenever I see 'WTF' I think, poker! Heh. It's my username for Poker Stars ... Win The Future, you understand. :)
Win The Future was an early and dismissed slogan in the Obama/Biden administration.
I kinda liked it but, you know, dammed acronyms and all.
If you don't know who to vote for, then not only are you not black but, you ain't a woman, either.
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/08/opinion/supreme-court-birth-control.html?action=click&module=Opinion&pgtype=Homepage
Looking forward to Linda Greenhouse's next piece!
"It’s hard to imagine the conservative justices of this court, especially, allowing employers to claim a moral exemption and require their employees to pay out of pocket for, say, a treatment for Covid-19. That sounds absurd. And yet, when it comes to birth control, such state interference with personal health decisions is considered a legitimate matter for public debate."... from the New York Times editorial board
Why is that?
Another reason to vote for Biden, Don.
Bashi,
Bashi,
I cannot stand when police spend their time focusing on traffic tickets! While I understand DUI patrols are helpful in getting intoxicated drivers off the road — I have lost two close friends to drunk drivers — I still find officers pulling people over and ticketing them for minor infractions that do not truly serve the greater good infuriating. It creates financial burdens on citizens unnecessarily, IMHO. However, I have a buddy who complains that the police constantly harass him for no reason... OK, sure, he’s had 4 DUI’s and been in countless fender benders...but he swears the police profile him!
That said, the police attempt to be pro-active when they are pulling people over. The threshold for which they can legally pull someone is extremely low...literally any possible infraction or potential infraction can get you stopped. If you were one of the only cars on the road at that time, and b/c so many crimes are committed at night, it is not surprising that you got stopped often. I hope they would generally let you go with a warning or did you usually get fined? You would be amazed at how many big-time, wanted criminals are brought to justice simply because they got pulled over.
But I have experienced this kind of thing my entire life, starting at about the age of 8. Luckily I'm white and naturally polite so it's never developed in to something more.
Well, you have to realize that officers are surely going to pull over any vehicle being driven by an 8 yo! I cannot blame that on bad policing...bad parenting, maybe... but not bad policing. ; D
The flip side is what were Michael Brown's life long interactions with the police that made what he did seem like a good idea at the time?
Sorry, but it sounds like you are literally suggesting that past negative interactions Brown had with the police somehow justified his actions???
Brown committed strong armed robbery, physically assaulting the shop keeper who attempted to stop Brown from stealing from his shop. Brown showed a willingness do whatever was necessary to ensure that he was not held accountable for his actions.
So not ten minutes after Brown committed his crime, Officer Wilson is driving down the street and finds Brown riding his bike down the center of the street. Now Brown could have moved out of the way, or tried to get away, but he chose to continue to block traffic on his bike...basically challenging the officer. Now while we know that Wilson was unaware of Brown’s recent criminal act, it is safe to assume that Brown could not have known that Wilson was NOT searching for him! It is also reasonable to believe that Brown thought Wilson was stopping him because of the crime he had just committed. Prior to the world learning about Brown’s actions just before Wilson stopped him, it made no sense to anyone why Brown kicked the officer’s door, preventing him from exiting his vehicle. Brown then began physically assaulting Wilson and attempted to disarm him while Wilson was still in his vehicle. If you are an officer who has your gun taken from you in a struggle, you are going to be shot and most likely will be killed. (Only 2% are not shot and 4% are not killed...or 98% are shot and 96% are killed...whichever way you want to paint it). Brown was willing to kill a police officer to avoid being held accountable for stealing a few dollars worth of smokes.
Keep in mind, it's not the single act that causes these protests. The single act is merely the spark for a whole lot of perceived grievances. Usually the tender event is quite questionable. To focus on the specific spark and ignore all the other stuff is Michale territory...
I realize that was the case in the death of George Floyd...between the political climate in this country, the pandemic, and the socioeconomic divide between classes...there was a lot of pent up rage that fueled the flames of outrage.
But let me ask you this...what made this event about racism? Simply because Floyd was black? Did any of the officers make any racist comments? The police did not choose to have contact with Floyd, they were answering a call for service because a store had claimed he had committed a crime. What race person do you think they allow to resist arrest?
Are we then expecting our government to charge the officers involved in the case based solely on what the evidence warrants, or are we expecting them to include those perceived grievances in how they determine charges? Because I fear the same public outrage that caused innocent black men to be charged and sent to prison when a white woman was raped and murdered will send innocent police officers to prison when a black man is killed.
The problem is that it is not the police that we should be focusing our anger on...they are simply doing their jobs of enforcing the laws that we as a society have put into place. Our anger should be with how our justice system works — that your ability to afford a good attorney determines how fairly the legal system will treat you. We need to focus more changing laws that are outdated and do not truly serve the public good than we do focusing on changing policing. Policing is constantly changing to appease their communities, but they will continue to enforce the laws as long as they are on the books! So if we want them to change what they are enforcing, then we have to work at changing the laws. It’s the message, not the messenger, that we should focus on.
People refuse to realize that the police are US! We are the police. They live in our communities. They get outraged at officers that screw up. If you look at police policy manuals from 30, 20, and ten years ago and compared them to police’s current policy manuals, you would see how much thicker today’s are in response to police listening to the public’s concerns.
As for the cameras police are asked to wear and keep on the entire time they are at work... it is not financially feasible to do that. That’s because police departments do not have the resources or staffing required to store and process 40-60 hours of video from each officer each week. Public record laws require those videos to be kept for between 45 to 90 days in most cities. Citizens would need to be willing to accept about a $250 increase at minimum in property taxes to afford the system everyone demands. Because police work is boring and they are not interacting with citizens the majority of most shifts, you’d have hours and hours of video of them writing reports or talking to each other. It is a big waste of money to have them, most departments have learned, but the public believes that it is the only way to stop police’s use of force problems.
If a dispatcher airs that a rape just occurred and the suspect was a black male, approximately 20-30 yrs old, 5’11 - 6’1 tall, medium build, wearing dark shorts and a black tank top, and you are walking in the area and happen to have even a slight resemblance to that description... you are going to be stopped and detained so they can determine if you were involved. It is not personal. It is not “racial profiling”; it is how police determine your guilt or innocence. They may not tell you why they are stopping you and running your name, because they don’t want you to think you have been caught and then try to run. But once they can clear you as a suspect, they will let you go on your merry way. That is the minor inconvenience that we, as citizens, have to accept in order for criminals to be caught...but, sadly, it is what causes most people to complain that they are being “targeted” by police.
When working as a 911 call receiver, I got more than a few call from upset citizens who were outraged because they had been stopped and detained and then released without being charged. “That was harassment!” they’d scream at me. One time I broke with protocol (which was to tell them to call the departments directly, not 911) and asked the guy if the police officers had treated him respectfully. He said they had. I asked him to describe what he looked like to me. He did. I then informed him that he had the same physical description of a subject that had violently raped two small girls that afternoon. I pointed out that despite him matching the description of the suspect almost perfectly, the officer’s treated him respectfully while they were verifying his ID before they released him. I then asked if he wanted me to direct his call to the on-duty supervisor for that department so he could file a complaint, but he declined.
How many white guys have been stopped by the police and then killed by them in similar circumstances to the many incidents in which black men and women have been killed?
Bashi [11]
The most upsetting thing in that video, and what clearly scared the guy, was that the officer told him to reach for his ID and badge after learning that he had a gun on his person! He was correct to refuse to reach for his ID and to request another officer be dispatched. I have said this before here and on many a message board discussing gun owners who get pulled over...
If you have a gun ON you and are stopped for a traffic violation — keep your hands on the steering wheel and immediately inform the officer when they get to you that you are armed and where the gun is located. Ask them to open your door for you so you can then safely let go of the steering wheel and place your hands on your head. They will need you to exit the vehicle so that they can retrieve your ID and the gun, but YOU DO NOT MOVE YOUR HANDS EXCEPT TO PLACE THEM ON YOUR HEAD. This is how you avoid being shot!
Philando Castile told the cop that he had a gun as he was reaching for his ID which was next to his gun and was killed doing so. People were outraged, but that police officer was completely justified to shoot based on Castile’s words and actions. This officer in the video you shared just explained why Castile’s shooting was Castile’s fault. The officer did what he was trained to do in that situation.
Hopefully he reported the officer who stopped him.
And while this video is frustrating, it still doesn’t mean that the police as a whole are out of control by any means! If you spend your day looking at videos of “cops acting bad”, of course you are going to be shown the worst of the worst and you will start seeing the police in negative ways. Yes, you may have video evidence showing 5 minutes of the officer being an asshat, but you do not see what they were like the remaining 9 hours and 55 minutes of their shift. These videos are showing one event, by one officer or group of officers from one department, in one city, one state, at one specific date and time. We do not judge all doctors for the malpractice of one, but the police are all lumped together when one screws up.
Yes, we need to act when the police demonstrate a willingness and tendency to use excessive force as that cannot be tolerated. But this bad videos are the exceptions, not the norm.
Yes, we need to act when the police demonstrate a willingness and tendency to use excessive force as that cannot be tolerated. But this bad videos are the exceptions, not the norm.
Agreed. But, there really does need to be action that fits the behavior of officers who tend towards the use of excessive and lethal force as option number one to the exclusion of all other reasonable options.
Liz,
According to mappingpoliceviolence.org, between 2013 - 2019, 1944 Blacks were killed by police and 3399 White were killed by police. It should be noted that dying from a heart attack while in custody is considered being “killed by police” to these sites. More whites are killed by the police every year. Blacks, because they make up a smaller portion of the population have a higher percentage of their population killed by police.
But, Russ, this isn't just about comparing numbers of blacks and whites killed by police. It's not even really about how many of each are killed in terms of percentage of population.
It's about the circumstances and manner in which people are killed by the police that is at issue.
I ask again, how many white men and women have been killed by the police under similar circumstances. How many whites have been killed by police who have pinned them down on the street with a knee on their neck or arms around their throat? How many whites have been killed by police like George Floyd?
Just looking at the numbers is not a very meaningful way to analyze what is happening out there.
How many white men have been killed by police like that black man who was found asleep in his car and ended up being shot twice in the back?
No two ways about it, the Civil War was fought over the issue of slavery, and it was a long time in coming too. By the early 1800s, all the Northern states had abolished slavery. Of course, it wasn't generally that they weren't convinced they were of superior stock, Northerners had generally become embarrassed to be slave owners.
In 1842, the Supreme Court of the United States ruled in Prigg v. Pennsylvania that state authorities from one state could not be forced by another state to return fugitive slaves to the South. To put that another way, the SCOTUS refused to violate a state's right to abstain from slavery; abolitionist states were not required to be forced to return people into bondage. Many of the Northern states had also refused to allow Southern slave owners to bring their human chattel into their states where slavery was abolished and considered any slaves that managed to arrive to their states in whatever manner as automatically free.
There was also the issue of free black Americans in the North being captured by opportunists and sold into slavery in the South. The movie 12 Years a Slave is a film version of the true story of Solomon Northup who in 1841 was kidnapped in Washington, DC by two conmen who tricked him to travel there and then sold him into slavery. Mr. Northup was a violinist who lived in New York state, and the opportunists had offered him employment as a musician if he would travel to DC. Once there, they drugged him and sold him into slavery... but I digress.
In 1845, the potato blight struck Europe killing millions, and the great migration began. European immigrants could be hired for cheap wages and were arriving in huge numbers in the industrialized North and were flat broke and ill from famine. As stated earlier, the issue of slavery wasn't so much even a moral issue since the white Northerners generally still believed themselves superior to not only black Americans but also to the cheap white labor that was arriving on the shores of America whom they could hire for such substandard wages that it was cheaper than owning them.
The issue of slavery split the major parties. Former members of the Whigs joined with Democratic Party members opposed to slavery and formed the new Republican Party in 1854. At the Republican Party's 1856 National Convention, Lincoln placed second in the contest to become the Republican Party's candidate for vice president. Nevertheless, he persisted.
*
Lincoln explained at the fourth of the Lincoln-Douglas debates that he opposed blacks having the right to vote, serve on juries, hold office, and to intermarry with whites. Lincoln believed all men had the right to enjoy the fruits of their labor and improve their condition.
In 1860 the Democratic Party held their convention in Charleston, South Carolina to select a candidate. Stephen Douglas was selected as the candidate of the Northern Democrats, but the delegates from 11 slave states walked out and later met and selected their candidate, Vice President John C. Breckinridge.
The Democrats division over the slavery issue helped elect Abraham Lincoln, the first Republican president. Lincoln carried all the states of the North except New Jersey. Lincoln's victory convinced Southern politicians that slavery would be soon be banned by constitutional amendment, and South Carolina was the first slave state to secede from the United States in December 1860. Mississippi, Florida, Alabama, Georgia, Louisiana and Texas followed suit and formed their new nation, the Confederate States of America.
Obviously, a whole lot of other stuff happened, but those are some of the major highlights. The United States nor any other nation ever recognized the CSA traitors as a nation. Lincoln was sworn in as president in March 1861, and the Confederate States of America attacked Fort Sumter in Charleston harbour in April 1861... and the rest is history.
Lethal force is always the “reasonable” option anytime it is legally justified. It has to be that way. If your child is being threatened and the officer is justified to use lethal force to stop them, do you really want them to risk attempting to de-escalate the situation when doing so could cost you your child’s life? Police are trained to stop threats to the public’s safety. Those that choose to put the public’s safety at risk are solely responsible for what their actions result in. If you do not wish to die, then do not point a gun at a police officer.
You guys know there's a new column up, right?
Russ,
If your child is being threatened and the officer is justified to use lethal force to stop them, do you really want them to risk attempting to de-escalate the situation when doing so could cost you your child’s life?
Of course, I don't!
But, aren't you being a little disingenuous here, Russ. I mean, you have to be able to distinguish between circumstances where public safety is concerned and be able to discern when lethal force is reasonable.
Those that choose to put the public’s safety at risk are solely responsible for what their actions result in. If you do not wish to die, then do not point a gun at a police officer.>/i>
What were the guy asleep in his car and George Floyd doing that so endangered public safety that the cops had to kill them?
Ah, I see where I went wrong there. :)
Mezzomamma
12
Heh.
Gee, my heart bleeds for them [ahem].
Bless their gullible hearts; Donald might convince them that paper ballots are communist and sent from China or maybe even satanic.
I asked my violinist daughter to play an appropriate sound effect, but she couldn't stop laughing long enough.
I'm "sitting" on sharps and holding sostenuto. It doesn't do it justice. Have to laugh. :)
Mike
20
Your fabrication and butthurt are again duly noted.
You seem incapable of keeping my pseudonym out your mouth. #SSDD
TS
42
Yep!
John From Censornati
57
I think that Washington NFL team should change their name to something more appropriate like the Predators and, since they're looking for a fresh start, I would suggest changing the team colors to Day-Glo orange and white. Maybe a great white shark for the mascot.
Not a bad idea, JFC.
I think they should just relocate the "k" in front of the "s"
Redskins
Redsinks --->
Redsinks
Their mascot could be the RMS Titanic. It suits them. ;)
oh, that's cruel ...
Oh, not so cruel when you consider it's coming from a Dallas Cowboys fan. The Redskins are in our division and our rivals since the 1960s.
NFC East
Dallas -------------> Cowboys
New York ---------> Giants (Hi, Don)
Philadelphia ------> Eagles
Washington -------> Redtails
A buddy of mine in DC claims he already knows they're going to call them the "Redtails." We'll see if he turns out to be correct.
He didn't really like my "Titanic" idea, but that's 'cause he's a dang "Redtail" fan. I told him "Retails" will do nicely, though, since that's the color their asses are going to be after we kick them. ;)
Heh.
Well, I'm a Saints fan, naturally. :)
ListenWhenYouHear-
I "got off" with a warning. A very quick, nope my fishing expedition did not work, half assed warning. Every time.
That said, the police attempt to be pro-active when they are pulling people over. The threshold for which they can legally pull someone is extremely low
Way too low in my opinion. If how I am driving would never be an issue when my side of the planet is facing the sun, it should not be different when it's not facing the sun. There is a guilty until proven innocent attitude with police that just has to stop. It goes against the entire philosophy of our legal system. As I've said, as a white guy of middle class standing any funny business will be investigated. My family is reasonably connected, has lawyers, and I know enough of the legal system to know I give my name, license, address and that's about it. Any other questions can be asked in the presence of my lawyer regardless of my guilt or innocence, not that I have ever needed to use that information. And that is sad. I should be able to tell the police the truth during the encounter and not fear it will be used against me but never for me in a court of law. Yes, miranda rights are a joke and need a major overhaul. The truth should never be one sided.
But beyond that, why has every other first world county figured it out but not us? Killings by police officer, 13 times higher per capita than the worst of first world Europe, France. We are 92 times higher than the United Kingdom, 230 times higher than Japan. We have the highest incarceration rate in the world by both per capita and total numbers. The rest of the first world is a sixth or less than us. And yet, number of police officers per capita and total crimes per capita we are middle of the pack. We are not doing policing right, and that is why there are protests against, calls to de-fund and in extreme cases abolish the police.
And don't even get me started on civil forfeiture abuse...
Bashi,
No other country gives their citizens the right to be as armed and dangerous as the United States does. No other country gives their citizens the freedoms to live their lives with minimum government interference as the US does. The police in this country have to be able to match firepower with any threat from individuals.
You want to know why police kill so many people in this country... fair question. Maybe the question should be why do so many people choose to endanger the lives of others which results in the police having to use deadly force to put an end to that threat? Why do people try to fight when they are told they are under arrest? Rarely has anyone been able to escape when they have tried to resist; eventually they are caught and face more charges for their actions.
It would be great if the public educated itself on the laws in their states. Police departments have started offering citizen academies to help teach people the “why’s” and “how’s” of police work, and most departments allow for citizen ride-a-longs.
Personally, I wish people wouldn’t hold the actions of one officer or one department against all the police in this country. Each state is responsible for the police in their state. Every department is different in its dynamics — each have their own strengths and weaknesses. In the police department where my husband works, there has been only one officer involved shooting in the past fifty-years: ten years ago, a mentally ill woman attempted suicide by cop when she pulled a shotgun on two officers who were checking on her. She survived with a gunshot wound to her shoulder; neither officer was injured. For over 50 years, the only time an officer fired their service revolver was when a shotgun was pointed at the officer’s heads. Is there any reason any more justified than to protect life for using deadly force? Tell me, what sweeping reform in policing should his department undergo?
Devon’s department is not the exception to the norm, they are the norm! When less than 5% of departments in this country have even a single officer involved shooting in any given year, how do we call that an “epidemic”? You ask how can our nation have such high number of officer involved deaths compared to other countries, but you fail to see that we lead the world in gun violence and deaths. Maybe that explains the number of officer involved killings better than anything.
ListenWhenYouHear-
Black people seem to think there is a problem. I have black friends that got the "talk" when they were young. They grew up middle class. I never had a "talk" nor felt I needed one looking back. I think there is something to these protests...
The police in this country have to be able to match firepower with any threat from individuals.
Police must first be able to discern what the threat is and act accordingly. Most officers do this everyday.