ChrisWeigant.com

Crazytown

[ Posted Tuesday, September 4th, 2018 – 17:04 PDT ]

The Washington Post just unveiled a sneak peek at Bob Woodward's upcoming book about the Trump White House, and so far it looks pretty much exactly the same as every other peek inside the Trump White House. Chaos reigns, Donald Trump is patently unfit to hold the office, and his aides do their best to get important things done while refusing to follow the worst of the unbalanced and angry orders from their boss. As Chief of Staff John Kelly is quoted saying, it is "Crazytown."

Kelly's full quote on Trump is worth repeating, to understand the depth of frustration of the sane adults who surround Trump and try to fend off his worst impulses:

He's an idiot. It's pointless to try to convince him of anything. He's gone off the rails. We're in Crazytown. I don't even know why any of us are here. This is the worst job I've ever had.

Elsewhere, Reince Priebus (the man who used to hold Kelly's job) describes Trump's aides as "natural predators," with a particularly gruesome metaphor: "When you put a snake and a rat and a falcon and a rabbit and a shark and a seal in a zoo without walls, things start getting nasty and bloody." Also, Defense Secretary James Mattis compares Trump to a fifth-grader -- for which he really should apologize immediately... to fifth graders.

Story after story in the brief excerpts paint Donald Trump as knowing little and having no desire to become educated about pretty much anything. Trump is convinced he knows everything about every subject, therefore there is no need for him to learn anything new. He goes with his gut, and it is left to those around him to either subvert or ignore the craziest impulses Trump orders his staff to do: Pulling all U.S. troops out of South Korea. Pulling out of a trade pact with South Korea (just for good measure). Preparing a first-strike attack on North Korea. Assassinating Bashar Al-Assad. The list of dangerous foreign policy actions alone should strike fear into any sane American. Which would tend to explain Woodward's title: "Fear: Trump In The White House." Fear indeed.

At this point, though, the stories Woodward has to tell are more than a little familiar, rather than being downright shocking. That's because we've heard the general outlines of all of these stories before, in other books written about the Trump White House. The previous books came from some rather dubious authors (Omarosa, in particular), who didn't have an overwhelming level of credibility. That cannot be said about Bob Woodward, however. It is not an understatement to say that Woodward is an institution in Washington, chronicling every president back to Richard Nixon (whom Woodward and Carl Bernstein took down with their Watergate reporting, of course). Woodward is a respected historical writer. He gets his facts right. So when he tells essentially the same stories that other books have already been telling, the net effect is that he lends some of his credence to the earlier reports. When everyone including Bob Woodward is reporting the same thing, it becomes that much harder to refute, in other words.

That crack about a fifth-grader is the one that rings the truest. We don't need access behind the scenes to see this one play out, on a daily basis. All we have to do is watch Trump's Twitter feed for proof. Trump runs the country the way a particularly petulant 10-year-old would. Petty grievances overshadow everything. It's not even high school or junior high, it's an elementary-school-playground attitude. Not only is Trump's knowledge limited (in fact, most fifth-graders know far more on just about any relevant subject than Trump does), but Trump's emotional maturity level is on par with a schoolyard bully's. Hurling insults is the preferred response to just about any problem that pops up.

Trump barks out an order to his staff, and they roll their eyes and decide unanimously to just ignore it. Trump never notices, likely because he forgets what he said almost immediately after saying it. When Trump is about to commit an act of sheer lunacy, his aides steal papers from his desk so that he can't sign them. Think about that for one tiny second. What other president in history ever had to be handled with such kid gloves by his staff? Maybe Teddy Roosevelt, but I'd bet dollars to donuts Teddy would have at least noticed if such blatant insubordination was taking place. Because that's really what it is. Trump is, after all, president. His orders are supposed to be official presidential orders. Nobody in the executive branch can overrule his orders, supposedly. So by what authority do his aides either outright ignore or actively subvert the president's will? That's a disconcerting constitutional question to ask, but it's going to be asked soon in the wake of Woodward's revelations. Woodward himself calls it an "administrative coup d'état, and he's not far off.

Of course, like everybody with a shred of sanity, I am indeed thankful that Trump's staff is more loyal to reality than to Trump. Or more loyal to the Constitution, perhaps. Either way, I'm glad Trump's order to pull all the troops out of South Korea didn't come to pass. I'm glad he was thwarted from flying off the handle at any number of imagined slights, too. America is a better place for the actions of Trump's aides in thwarting his will. Especially since he doesn't even seem to have noticed, for the most part.

The problem for us all is that there are fewer and fewer sane adults surrounding Trump. Many have already exited the building, in one fashion or another. John Kelly likely won't be around for Trump's full term in office, and so far he stands out as the sanest adult in the building. What will happen when he is replaced -- likely with someone more compliant to feeding Trump's enormous ego?

The White House has already started pushing back on Woodward's book. But it won't be as easy as pushing back at Omarosa's credibility, that's for sure. Trump has yet to address Woodward's book on Twitter, so we've got that to look forward to as well. The Post did release an extraordinary phone call from Trump to Woodward, which was made after the book had been finalized. In it, Trump complains that he never got the chance to talk to Woodward, even though Woodward says over and over again that he contacted six or more people at the White House in an attempt to score an interview with Trump. Trump even has to admit, in the middle of the call, that Lindsey Graham did raise the subject with him, after saying earlier that he had never heard anything about it.

One can only hope that Trump will agree to sit down with Woodward, for an extended interview that lasts hours. Such an interview would likely provide enough fodder for Woodward's second book, in fact, so here's hoping it will happen.

Bob Woodward's current book is shocking, but at the same time familiar. We've heard all this stuff before, although the new anecdotes are certainly fascinating. Trump is not a "stable genius," in fact he's the complete opposite. He rules by rage and petulance, as the entire planet witnessed last week when he ordered the White House flags to be flown at full-staff to snub Senator John McCain one last time. An intellectually- and emotionally-stunted fifth-grader is running the country. He constantly gets his "facts" wrong and is uninterested in learning any actual facts about anything. He spends an enormous amount of time watching Fox News on television, because they so consistently kowtow to him.

But, again, this is all really just confirmation of what others have said. It's shocking, in other words, but it is no longer surprising in any way. There will be more books written about the Trump White House, both from journalists and from people who served there who have left. They're all going to say similar things, it can be assumed. If one disgruntled employee wrote a book and everybody else contradicted it, that'd be one thing. But if book after book tells exactly the same story from slightly different perspectives, then that story is quite likely the reality of the situation. And the reality of the situation is, as Bob Woodward quoted John Kelly saying, Crazytown.

-- Chris Weigant

 

Follow Chris on Twitter: @ChrisWeigant

 

89 Comments on “Crazytown”

  1. [1] 
    James T Canuck wrote:

    I can't enable my crayon font...damn. The thing is, I've heard some of this content before. Not from the media in the traditional sense, but from an old friend I may have mentioned before, someone who may or may not work for a disreputable media outlet. That's what made my blood run cold. I know, I'm sure to be painted hysterical, which is odd, because I had some of this content carry on the wind through a Toronto bar six months ago, stoned and mildly amused by the train that runs around the plate rack attached to wall, I only paid half attention. I'm not overly worried, there's a timeline for the lunacy to end. The timeline hinges on what happens in November, this year...but regardless, it never lands at 2020.

    Imagine you want a pint of beer in a pub, an 'English' pub...but you all you have is large bills and 'they' want 'coins' only, they need 'change'...They don't take debit, unless you give them a whole years notice.

    LL&P

  2. [2] 
    Kick wrote:

    CW: Woodward is a respected historical writer. He gets his facts right.

    Yes, sir. As anyone who's spent any amount of time in the multitude of corridors scattered across DC: Woodward has receipts. Lordy, there are tapes. :)

  3. [3] 
    Kick wrote:

    CW: John Kelly likely won't be around for Trump's full term in office, and so far he stands out as the sanest adult in the building. What will happen when he is replaced -- likely with someone more compliant to feeding Trump's enormous ego?

    What if Kelly is simply replaced by Trump's enormous ego? I shudder the thought but remember for awhile when Trump was discussing with allies about serving as his own chief of staff.

    https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/donald-trump/amid-white-house-turmoil-trump-mused-about-life-without-chief-n859301

  4. [4] 
    neilm wrote:

    So here we are in America 2018.

    Enough "feelies" want to believe their fantasies are real, and the normal people aren't paying enough attention to politics.

    One thing the traitor might do that is positive is get more people to realize that we all need to pay enough attention to who is running around in DC and that they are normal, relatively intelligent, and sane humans.

    C'mon America - it isn't that hard. If you have to choose between the boring person (Hillary) and the blowhard with a history of cheap cons (the traitor), you go with the boring person. Then you can go back to forgetting about politics for another 16 months.

  5. [5] 
    Kick wrote:

    CW: Trump has yet to address Woodward's book on Twitter, so we've got that to look forward to as well.

    And now later at ~11:30 CDT, there are about a half dozen or so tweets and retweets of right-wing rags: "The Daily Caller" and "Breitbart."

    What? --> No "National Enquirer"!? *laughs*

    Methinks Trump does protest too much, and like I said:
    Woodward keeps receipts and will likely not hesitate to present them and "Pinocchio" the BLOTUS. Roll tape. :)

  6. [6] 
    Kick wrote:

    And now... another episode of:
    There's Always A Tweet!

    Donald J. Trump
    @realDonaldTrump

    Only the Obama WH can get away with attacking Bob Woodward.

    2:04 PM - 1 Mar 2013

  7. [7] 
    James T Canuck wrote:

    [4] 'One thing the traitor might do that is positive is get more people to realize that we all need to pay enough attention to who is running around in DC and that they are normal, relatively intelligent, and sane humans.'

    I think we're way past traitor, at this point...I'm not sure he's capable of forming the intent.

    If some scruffy orange-haired apparition is seen shuffling around Washington in a dressing gown and slippers...you'll know I'm right.

    LL&P

  8. [8] 
    Michale wrote:

    As Chief of Staff John Kelly is quoted saying, it is "Crazytown."

    Yea, that's what Woodward SAID Kelly said..

    This is just another Omarasa tell all, another Fire & Fury that is based on bullshit..

    YYYAAAWWWWNNNNNNN

    This too shall pass, like all the others...

  9. [9] 
    Kick wrote:

    Michale
    8

    This is just another Omarasa tell all, another Fire & Fury that is based on bullshit..

    Well of course it's about bullshit because it's about Benedict Donald.

    This too shall pass, like all the others...

    Funny... that's EXACTLY what Nixon said about Woodward's work. Since you're admittedly not a "history buff," I regret to inform you how that worked out for Poor Richard:

    Condensed History: Watergate

    Nixon was effed.

  10. [10] 
    Michale wrote:

    C'mon America - it isn't that hard. If you have to choose between the boring person (Hillary) and the blowhard with a history of cheap cons (the traitor), you go with the boring person. Then you can go back to forgetting about politics for another 16 months.

    Whew! For a second, I thought you were going to be nothing but self-serving your Party slavery.. :D

    Face the facts neil... Hillary was nothing but 4 more years of Odumbo and Dumbocrat rule..

    And the American people were SICK AND TIRED of Odumbo and Dumbocrat rule..

    What part of that is so difficult for you to comprehend..

    The Left is simply the epitome of Sore Luserism...

    You lost.. And this country is MUCH better off for it..

    Enjoy the latest Hysterical NeverTrump fiction novel.. It soon will be on the trash heap of history just like all the others before that were PROVEN fiction...

    YYYAAAAAWWWWWNNNNNNNNN

    What's gonna the Hysterical Dumbocrat new shiny NEXT week I wonder.. :^/

  11. [11] 
    Michale wrote:

    Top House Democrats show increasing confidence in retaking majority
    https://www.sfgate.com/news/article/Top-House-Democrats-show-increasing-confidence-in-13204425.php

    Yea.. And Top House Dumbocrats showed "increasing confidence" that the Hillary would be our next POTUS..

    YYAAAAWWWWNNNNNNN

    The problem for Dumbocrats is that they ONLY look at the facts that support their agenda and IGNORE the facts that don't...

    For example, they refuse to acknowledge that black American support for President Trump and the GOP has almost TRIPLED in the last couple years..

    Dumbocrats IGNORE the *FACT* that, if they lose as little as 5% more of the black American vote to Trump.... excuse me... PRESIDENT Trump, Dumbocrats won't stand a chance of being elected county dog catcher..

    Dumbocrats ignore the disillusion of their base due to President Trump getting ANOTHER SCOTUS pick.. With a THIRD pick likely before the 2020 election..

    Dumbocrats ignore the fact that their base has a history of staying home in mid-term elections. With Republicans, their base has a history of massive turnout in midterm elections..

    Dumbocrats are ignoring the fact that the SCOTUS just decimated Public Sector unions which are one of the backbones of the Democrat Party. Union money to Democrats will dry up..

    And, if Russia controls our elections, as Dumbocrats claim ad naseum, Russia would like nothing more than to give the GOP a huge victory and watch Dumbocrats go apeshit in their continued efforts to destroy this country... And Dumbocrats have NO PROBLEM playing the role of Putin's Useful Idiots...

    All these reasons and so many more are why Dumbocrats are going to have egg all over their faces again in the aftermath of Nov 2018, much more so than the aftermath of Nov 2016...

    "Nobody likes you. Everybody hates you. Yer gonna lose.. Smile, ya fuck.."
    -Bruce Willis, THE LAST BOY SCOUT

    But don't worry.. I'll be around on 7 Nov 18 just like I was on 10 Nov 2016 to ask the question..

    "Soooo??? Who was totally and completely wrong and WHO was dead on ballz accurate???" :D

    It'll be fun.. :D

  12. [12] 
    Michale wrote:

    Ayanna Pressley Ousts 20-Year Incumbent Michael Capuano in Massachusetts Primary Shocker
    She is the second progressive woman of color to defeat a long-term male white incumbent this cycle.

    https://www.thedailybeast.com/ayanna-pressley-ousts-20-year-incumbent-michael-capuano-in-massachusetts-primary-shocker

    Tell me again how SOCIALISM is not the "Future Of The Democrat Party"???

    I seem to have forgotten what with all the FACTS to the contrary... :D

  13. [13] 
    Michale wrote:

    Woodward is a respected historical writer. He gets his facts right.

    Funny.. That's what ya'all said about Michael Wolff..

    Then we found out his book was pure fiction..

    So, you'll forgive me if I don't take a NeverTrumpers' Anti-Trump hysteria at face value..

    :D

  14. [14] 
    Bleyd wrote:

    M12
    Unlike you and the vast majority of your conservative cohorts, liberals and progressives recognize that, while in its purest for, socialism is fundamentally flawed, it also has many concepts that are highly beneficial to society. That it contains many concepts to help balance out the inherent flaws of capitalism. While capitalism encourages hard work and innovation, it also prone to abuse by those who already have money, and can make it harder on those who don't. Blending in some socialism helps to balance things out, to protect against the worst abuses of capitalism and keep the weakest from falling through the cracks. Medicare, medicaid, and social security are all programs based on socialist concepts that are extremely popular and beneficial to Americans. Railing against socialism isn't going to benefit Americans, working to determine and then create the best balance between capitalism and socialism is what will benefit the country the most.

  15. [15] 
    Michale wrote:

    Unlike you and the vast majority of your conservative cohorts, liberals and progressives recognize that, while in its purest for, socialism is fundamentally flawed,

    And yet, one of the latest heroes and "the future of the Democrat Party" is a proud socialist...

    Apparently liberals and progressives DON'T share that concept..

    Railing against socialism isn't going to benefit Americans, working to determine and then create the best balance between capitalism and socialism is what will benefit the country the most.

    That's like saying that railing against Nazism is going to benefit the world..

    Of course it will...

    Preventing Socialism, like preventing Nazism, does the entire world good..

    Or, are you saying that we should embrace SOME aspects of Nazism, because..

    "One of the most effecient states Earth ever knew. That one tiny country, beaten, war torn rose in a few years to be one step away from global domination."
    -Spock, STAR TREK, PATTERNS OF FORCE

    Or, to use a more modern day example, should we embrace terrorism because Hamas does build schools and hospitals??

    The failure of socialism is NOT a bug... It's a feature..

    ANYONE who calls themselves a socialist should NOT be considered for political office, any more than someone who calls themselves a communist or a nazi or a terrorist should be considered for political office...

    Such a claim... such a PERSON.. is not compatible with American values...

    I respect that you disagree...

  16. [16] 
    Michale wrote:

    Bleyd,

    Irregardless of all of the afore, my point was that many Weigantians have claimed that socialist candidates like Cortez and Pressley are NOT the future of the Democrat Party..

    But it's clear that a goodly portion of DEMOCRATS **DO** think that socialism is the "future of the Democrat Party"...

    That's my point and, if there are any facts that disprove my point, well... As Ross Perot said in the 1992 Presidential Debates...

    "I'm all ears"

    :D

  17. [17] 
    TheStig wrote:

    All those who work for the US Government, elected or otherwise, take an oath to defend the Constitution of the United States from all enemies Foreign and Domestic.

    Only one subclass of government workers also explicitly swear to obey orders from the President. Can you identify these government workers? (Hint: their bosses don't explicitly swear to obey the President).

    One other thing.... Our Constitution was written and approved by revolutionaries. I only bring this up because it does shine a light on "Original Intent" of "the Founders" regarding the Mad Emperor Problem.

    http://maritimeprogress.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/6143GMPV.jpg

  18. [18] 
    John M wrote:

    [15] Michale

    "Or, are you saying that we should embrace SOME aspects of Nazism, because..

    "One of the most effecient states Earth ever knew. That one tiny country, beaten, war torn rose in a few years to be one step away from global domination."
    -Spock, STAR TREK, PATTERNS OF FORCE

    Or, to use a more modern day example, should we embrace terrorism because Hamas does build schools and hospitals??"

    You are taking entirely the WRONG POINT away from that example.

    It was efficient because of GERMAN CULTURE, NOT because Nazism ITSELF was efficient.

    East Germany was ALSO the MOST efficient COMMUNIST state in the world, because of GERMAN CULTURE, not because of ANY characteristics inherent in Communism.

    Germany, regardless of whether it is Capitalist, Socialist, Communist, or Nazi, would probably still be the most efficient example of any of those systems, simply because of inherent GERMAN CULTURE.

    As for Hamas, no of course not. But BECAUSE Hamas BUILDS schools and hospitals, while Fatah is mired in corruption and does not, DOES go a long way towards explaining Hamas's support and popularity among poor Palestinian masses. As any counter insurgency leader can tell you, from Vietnam to Afghanistan to Iraq, you do have to put some effort into winning over the hearts and minds of the masses with concrete actions.

  19. [19] 
    Michale wrote:

    You are taking entirely the WRONG POINT away from that example.

    It was efficient because of GERMAN CULTURE, NOT because Nazism ITSELF was efficient.

    That's YOUR politically correct spin on Spock's statement..

    That is NOT what Spock was saying..

    East Germany was ALSO the MOST efficient COMMUNIST state in the world

    Complete and utter bullshit..

    There was no "East Germany" at the time of the Nazis..

    And NO ONE with more than 2 brain cells to rub together would EVER call Communist East Germany "efficient"..

    Germany, regardless of whether it is Capitalist, Socialist, Communist, or Nazi, would probably still be the most efficient example of any of those systems, simply because of inherent GERMAN CULTURE.

    That's spin, not fact...

    As for Hamas, no of course not. But BECAUSE Hamas BUILDS schools and hospitals, while Fatah is mired in corruption and does not, DOES go a long way towards explaining Hamas's support and popularity among poor Palestinian masses.

    Which is completely negated by terrorism being official Hamas policy..

  20. [20] 
    Michale wrote:

    JM,

    On another note.. Have ya'all dried out yet?? :D

  21. [21] 
    Michale wrote:

    Germany, regardless of whether it is Capitalist, Socialist, Communist, or Nazi, would probably still be the most efficient example of any of those systems, simply because of inherent GERMAN CULTURE.

    I am also constrained to point out that such an attitude is very... ummmm... Nationalistic, don'tcha think??

    Don't Democrats think that Nationalism is a BAD thing???

  22. [22] 
    Kick wrote:

    TS
    17

    I, __________, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God.

    United States Armed Forces Oath of Enlistment

    I, __________, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office on which I am about to enter. So help me God.

    United States Armed Forces Oath of Commissioned Officer

    Now drop and give me 20 ladies! :)

  23. [23] 
    Michale wrote:

    You are taking entirely the WRONG POINT away from that example.

    It was efficient because of GERMAN CULTURE, NOT because Nazism ITSELF was efficient.

    That's YOUR politically correct spin on Spock's statement..

    That is NOT what Spock was saying..

    Spock was clearly pointing out the efficiency of NAZI Germany, not just Germany itself..

    How do we know??

    "But it was brutal, perverted; had to be destroyed at a terrible cost. Why that example?"
    "Perhaps Gill felt that such a state, run benignly, could accomplish its efficiency without sadism."

    -STAR TREK, Patterns Of Force

    Because the very next lines of the dialog indicate that Spock was referring to NAZI German efficiency... Not simply GERMAN efficiency..

    Now, if you want to make the claim that only Germans can make NAZI Germany work, by all means..

    But I don't think you'll find many Germans who will appreciate such a claim..

    And this comes from a person who was raised by one..

    I'm just sayin'...

  24. [24] 
    Michale wrote:

    And this comes from a person who was raised by one..

    Uh.. That would be a German and not a Nazi...

    Just had to make that clear.. :D

  25. [25] 
    TheStig wrote:

    Kick-23

    Interesting distinction don't you think? For officers, there is clear duty to defend Constitutional Principles from a mad or bad President who violates tehm. For Enlisted, the principle of chain of command says obey the President, if he gives a specific order that doesn't conflict with the USCMJ.

    The Constitution fits in your back pocket, the USCMJ is more like a 4" X 6" item.

    Anyhow, the Framers were familiar with the Classics, and Caligula and Cassius Chaerea. I doubt Trump is...even if his tweets suggest he is nervous about subordinates loyalty.

    Don't think it can't happen here (see US Civil War).

  26. [26] 
    TheStig wrote:

    Oops,comment 25 should reference Kick-22.

  27. [27] 
    Don Harris wrote:

    So here we are in America in 2018.

    Enough "feelies" want to believe their fantasies are real (Trump is doing a great job, Trump is crazy and dangerous so people should vote for Democrats and THIS TIME they will live up to their empty promises), and the normal people are not paying enough attention to politics (the 125 million or so eligible voters that will not vote in 2018).

    Trump will not convince the people that are fed up with the system that put Trump in office that the people running around in Washington are the solution.

    Whether or not they are sane or intelligent, the people running around Washington are working for the Big Money interests and not for ordinary citizens.

    Come on, America- it isn't that hard. If you're offered a choice between Big Money candidates, not voting or registering a vote against the Big Money candidates to demonstrate and create demand for small contribution candidates in the next election cycle- you register a vote against the Big Money candidates and spend the next 16 months working toward getting more citizens to join you in the next election cycle.

    The one thing you don't do is listen the "feelies" that claim your only choice is between the two Big Money candidates.

    And if you are a blogger that claims to be a reality based blogger, you don't ignore that the reality is that citizens DO NOT HAVE TO choose between the Big Money candidates/parties and perpetuate the myth.

  28. [28] 
    Michale wrote:

    I doubt Trump is...even if his tweets suggest he is nervous about subordinates loyalty.

    Only to someone who has an irrational and hatred of President Trump..

    The simple fact is, President Trump IS the military's Commander In Chief..

    And that just hysterically drives you over the edge...

    Don't think it can't happen here (see US Civil War).

    Oh, it WILL happen here..

    If NeverTrumpers succeed in nullifying a free, fair and legal election based on bullshit, you can rest assured it WILL happen here..

    And, considering that 98% of Trump supporters are well armed and well trained and nearly 100% of the OpFor are afraid of guns???

    What is the likely outcome??

    Hint... It won't end well for the OpFor....

    Tread lightly....

  29. [29] 
    Kick wrote:

    TS
    25

    Interesting distinction don't you think?

    Yes, sir... interesting and intentional.

    For officers, there is clear duty to defend Constitutional Principles from a mad or bad President who violates tehm. For Enlisted, the principle of chain of command says obey the President, if he gives a specific order that doesn't conflict with the USCMJ.

    The allegiance is sworn to our ideals and the rule of law and bound by dedication to the defense of the people... not bound by the orders of a single individual. Add to that, Article 90 of UCMJ states that service members are obligated only to obey lawful orders, thus another deterrent against abuse of power.

    Anyhow, the Framers were familiar with the Classics, and Caligula and Cassius Chaerea. I doubt Trump is...even if his tweets suggest he is nervous about subordinates loyalty.

    *laughs* Being that Cadet Bone Spurs couldn't remember the history regarding which of his feet was afflicted to produce his deferment, it's not likely he could regale us with tales regarding centurions or the Praetorian Guard. :)

  30. [30] 
    James T Canuck wrote:

    Fair enough...I proved beyond any sane argument that Socialistic democracies are better, more efficient, less costly and at the very least, not the squandering system that small minds without facts pretend. It's done, unless anyone can dispute the empirical facts I posted in the previous thread. Good.

    Back to the train wreck.

    "I just simply believe the only truly safe sex…as the president believes, is no sex."

    This is the next nightmare for Americans to face, Trump is done, gone, no longer a player in the game. He'll either be loaded into a padded limo in six months, or resign in good time for Pence...the religious zealot, to hurriedly pardon him and his minions, with time to spare, to wrap himself in sash and emerge as the saviour of America.

    So much for separation of church and state, this weasel will make it mandatory to love his god, strip women of their rights, rechain blacks and have homosexuals flogged on national TV.

    Trump's only redeeming is his complete and utter disregard for ecumenical concerns, outside of being a means to an end, Pence sees ecumenical concerns and the end of the means. That makes him dangerous to everyone but his congregation.

    LL&P

  31. [31] 
    Michale wrote:

    Fair enough...I proved beyond any sane argument that Socialistic democracies are better, more efficient, less costly and at the very least, not the squandering system that small minds without facts pretend.

    Yea.. Venezuela proves THAT beyond ANY doubt.. :^/

    This is the next nightmare for Americans to face, Trump is done, gone, no longer a player in the game. He'll either be loaded into a padded limo in six months, or resign in good time for Pence..

    Yea, that's been the hysterical NeverTrumpers' claim for a while now..

    Along with a destroyed economy and WWIII and blaa blaa blaa blaa..

    ANd guess what??

    ***NONE OF IT HAS HAPPENED***

    So, the fact that you think you have *ANY* credibility here is hilarious.. :D

  32. [32] 
    Michale wrote:

    I mean, seriously.. Take a look at the FACTS..

    The hysterical NeverTrumpers have been a CORNUCOPIA of doomsday predictions on a DAILY basis..

    And not a **SINGLE** one has every come to pass..

    Ya'all are a shrill hysterical bunch of Chicken Littles and the sky is STILL up there, it hasn't fallen at all..

    Ya'all have been a bunch of little boys who cry wolf on a daily, oft times HOURLY, basis and there has **NEVER** been any wolf...

    The economy is great, Americans are great, the country is great..

    EVERYTHING IS AWESOME...

    And ya'all scream and whine that the end is nigh....

    And ya'all are ***ALWAYS*** wrong...

    So, seriously..

    Why should **ANYONE* listen to ya'all at all???

  33. [33] 
    Michale wrote:

    Car Ramming Attack on Dallas Fox Affiliate After 'Meet the Press' Host Says to 'Fight Back' Against Fox News
    BY PATRICK POOLE SEPTEMBER 5, 2018 CHAT 711 COMMENTS

    A man rammed his truck into the studios of Dallas Fox affiliate KDFW earlier this morning, just two days after Meet the Press host Chuck Todd published an article calling on his media colleagues to "start fighting back" against Fox News.
    https://pjmedia.com/trending/car-ramming-attack-on-dallas-fox-affiliate-after-meet-the-press-host-calls-to-fight-back-against-fox-news/

    The condemnation from the Left??

    {{{chiiiirrrrrpppppppp}}} {{{cccccchhhhhhhhiiirrrrrpppppp}}}

    I am sure glad it's the DUMBOCRATS who are the Party of peace and tolerance.. :^/ If it weren't, we might have wholesale violence and shootings committed by Dumbocrats.. :^/

  34. [34] 
    Balthasar wrote:

    Man Rams Truck Into Dallas TV Station

    (Reuters) - A man was arrested in Dallas, Texas, on Wednesday after repeatedly crashing his truck into a building that housed a television station, apparently to highlight a grievance, police said.

    The station, KDFW Fox 4, aired video footage of the incident showing the man, who was not immediately identified, getting out of his pickup truck after the crash and beginning to rant and throw papers around the area. No one was hurt.

    Police spokeswoman Corporal Debra Webb told the station the man’s motive was still being investigated, but that it did not appear that he was targeting the media.

    I keep saying, Michale, you've got to stick to reliable news sources.

  35. [35] 
    Michale wrote:

    I keep saying, Michale, you've got to stick to reliable news sources.

    You mean, like ya'all do when you can tie some heinous act to President Trump by the most tenuous and bullshit of connections??

    You mean like that??? :D

    Practice what you preach, then you can presume to lecture me.. :D

  36. [36] 
    Michale wrote:

    Further, it's not hard to distinguish motives of the James Hodgkison's of the Democrat Party..

    Which seems to be the entirety of the Democrat Party..

  37. [37] 
    Michale wrote:

    Now if you want to concede not every crazy on the right is indicative of Trump supporters, I'll be happy to concede the same thing regarding crazies on the Left..

    But, as long as ya'all perpetrate the bigotry, I'll be here to rub ya'all's faces in it... :D

    What could be more fair that that??

  38. [38] 
    Balthasar wrote:

    [32]The economy is great, Americans are great, the country is great..

    EVERYTHING IS AWESOME...

    There you go. Roll credits: "We'll meet again, don't know where, don't know when..."

    We'll just ignore the insane man in the White House with his finger on the nuclear button.

    We'll ignore the SCOTUS candidate who will roll back our rights if he is confirmed.

    We'll ignore the poor and desperate refugees at he border who have had their children taken from them and locked in cages.

    We'll look the other way while America's role in the world is diminished and international arrangements dismantled.

    We'll politely demur while health care is rendered unaffordable for millions.

    We'll distract ourselves while the treasury is emptied to give tax breaks to billionaires.

    We'll sit idly by while our air is fouled, our rivers are polluted and our soil is soaked with toxins.

    We'll pretend not to care while our schools and VA systems are monetized and privatized.

    We'll try not to cringe when we learn that the president gets his ideas from Steve Doocy.

    EVERYTHING IS AWESOME!

    So we'll just go fuck ourselves.

  39. [39] 
    James T Canuck wrote:

    [31]Once again I have to do Michale's fact checking for him, it's becoming tiresome but it's essential, lest someone equally allergic to fact takes him at his word.

    In December 2017, President Maduro declared that leading opposition parties will be barred from taking part in next year's presidential vote.

    Now...I know dictatorships and socialism rattle around the uneducated mind in tandem, but they're different...in the same way the US and North Korea have Constitution and Republic in their title but are different.

    It's worthy of note that Venezuela is a Federal Republic with a constitution, now suspended, by a demagogic vulgarian swept into office on a wave of populism and right-wing sentiment.

    Sound familiar?....it fucking well should.

    So no, Venezuela isn't a good model for socialism, but then it hasn't been ruined by socialism either...it's been ruined by a Trumpian clone, swept into office and defended by a group of Michale clones...

    Do your own fact checking, my fact checking of your dross never works out well for you.

    LL&P

  40. [40] 
    Balthasar wrote:

    Re Michale [35]:

    That's a non-sequitur. The fact is that the story that you posted at [33] is literally fake news.

    If just making shit up is the standard, then we can all play:

    REPUBLICAN ACCEPTS DONATION FROM S.P.E.C.T.R.E

    MELANIA TRUMP WAS IN ROMANIAN SECRET SERVICE

    STEVE BANNON STARTS FASHION TREND

    See? It's easy and it's mindless, which is why I can understand its appeal to Trumpers.

    But it's no basis for serious discussion, is it?

  41. [41] 
    Michale wrote:

    We'll just ignore the insane man in the White House with his finger on the nuclear button.

    Hysterical hyperbole that has already been proven false..

    We'll ignore the SCOTUS candidate who will roll back our rights if he is confirmed.

    Assumes facts not in evidence. Once again, hysterical hyperbole..

    And, given ya'all's track record of being WRONG on everything, I am still amazed that you continue .. :D

    We'll ignore the poor and desperate refugees at he border who have had their children taken from them and locked in cages.

    They aren't Americans... AMERICA FIRST, remember?? duh...

    We'll look the other way while America's role in the world is diminished and international arrangements dismantled.

    To pave BETTER deals for Americans.. AMERICA FIRST, remember???

    Are you an American or a citizen of the world??

    So we'll just go fuck ourselves.

    So we Democrats who hate America can just go fuck ourselves..

    There.. Fixed it for you..

    "What can I say except, 'Yer welcome!!!'.."
    -Maui, MOANA

    That's a non-sequitur. The fact is that the story that you posted at [33] is literally fake news.

    It's actually not.. It's been widely reported as factual..

    But hay.. If you have to claim it as fake news to make it thru yer day???

    Go for it... I'll allow it.. That's what friends are for.. :D

  42. [42] 
    Michale wrote:

    'Muck....

    So no, Venezuela isn't a good model for socialism, but then it hasn't been ruined by socialism either...it's been ruined by a Trumpian clone, swept into office and defended by a group of Michale clones...

    If that's what you have to believe to make it thru your day..

    Venezuela is socialist.. EVERYONE knows this...

    DEMOCRAT PARTY is going socialist..

    Deny it all you want, but the FACTS are the facts...

  43. [43] 
    Michale wrote:

    https://www.nytimes.com/2018/09/05/opinion/trump-white-house-anonymous-resistance.html

    The Leftist Main Stream Media..

    The enemy of patriotic Americans...

  44. [44] 
    Michale wrote:

    The self-styled Saviors of the Country need to step forward, identify themselves, and speak plainly, honestly, and loudly about the menace in the White House.
    http://theweek.com/articles/765667/reveal-yourselves-trump-administration-resisters

    Yes.. By all means..

    ALL American Traitors need to self-identify so they can be purged and exposed for the gutless cowards that they are...

  45. [45] 
    rjrap wrote:

    41-44

    What mindless drival.

  46. [46] 
    Michale wrote:

    What mindless drival.

    Says the guy who is nothing but a Party slave...

    Those scumbags who work for the Administration and are trying to subvert it??

    The very definition of "traitor"....

    Imagine how you would feel if scumbag Republicans worked for Odumbo and actively tried to subvert HIS administration..

    You would make the same arguments I am making..

    So bite me, slave...

    And, just for the record.. That's "drivel"...

    Moron.. :^/

  47. [47] 
    Michale wrote:

    Come talk to me when you have ANY facts at all..

    That way, we'll never hear from you at all...

  48. [48] 
    James T Canuck wrote:

    [42] 'Venezuela is socialist.. EVERYONE knows this...' you think it and everyone knows are two different things...it IS a dictatorship if democracy has been suspended. A minor distinction to you and the right-wing, but very important to the rest of us who happen to enjoy democracy....what is it about individual freedom and the rule of law you hate so much, that you confuse a right-wing populist dictatorship with socialism (the only pure form of democracy, with its one man/woman, one vote, at its core) Why do you subscribe to populist dogma and alternate facts to rationalize your disdain for the reality on the ground?

    As it is, everyone has a right to an opinion, unless, as Orrin Hatch said in his typical Hitlerian way, that speech is "insolent".

    The truth is, Michale, you're a neo-fascist, a diluted milky-toast one, to be sure, but a neo-fascist nonetheless. I don't think you're a racist, sexist or a homophobe, as I've seen no sustained effort here of you being so, but you espouse all the other rhetoric associated with that mindset. Each to their own in a democracy, I wont say you can't be, in fact I'll side with you against anyone who says you don't have that right.

    LL&P

  49. [49] 
    James T Canuck wrote:

    [47] I provide facts for you from your own government's websites, you dismiss them with childish 'whataboutism's' and invented sacred-unto-you dogmatic tropes.

    You aren't interested in the slightest with facts, so stop asking for that which you disregard so blithely in favour of your own narrative.

    LL&P

  50. [50] 
    Balthasar wrote:

    Those scumbags who work for the Administration and are trying to subvert it??

    I agree with you Michale, but not for the reasons that you might hope I would.

    Today an anonymous writer, confirmed by the NYT to be a senior administration official (my money's on Mattis), detailed in an OP-Ed the insanity and constitutional crisis-in-the-making of working for Mad King Don.

    Yesterday a book was published by a respected investigative reporter known for his meticulous sourcing that detailed the same chaos in the White House and the same sort of presidential instability.

    Before that was the Wolff book, and numerous articles sourced to senior administration officials, all detailing the same set of apparent facts: an uneducated, temperamental president surrounded by aides that con him and slide things out of his way.

    And I agree, Michale. That's abominable. These chickenshit whistle blowers that won't sign their names to the truth would have us believe, too, that everything is A-okay because they've been making sure that Trump doesn't go to far off the rails.

    Except that that would mean that the country is actually being run by a disloyal ad hoc cabal of ideaological careerists. Is Jared in on this?

    Moreover, their intervention, while perhaps well-intentioned, has (if they're to be believed), prevented us from seeing just how unhinged Trump really is. What would be the political fallout for Trump after he's accidentally caused the deaths of millions? Why spare us from that?

    I'm being facetious of course. Thank god there are adults in the White House. But they should step forward and testify honestly about Trump and not hide behind reporters and anonymity agreements. We need witnesses, not weasels.

    .

  51. [51] 
    LeaningBlue wrote:

    C'mon America - it isn't that hard. If you have to choose between the boring person (Hillary) and the blowhard with a history of cheap cons (the traitor), you go with the boring person. Then you can go back to forgetting about politics for another 16 months.

    I think it's more fundamental than that. When there are two unelectable candidates running against each other, the sad reality is that one of them has to win, and the winner will be random.

    The root cause of Trump being president isn't the Russian assistance. The root cause wasn't Hillary as a candidate; she was a terrible candidate, but so was Trump.

    The root cause was the idiot snowflakes who ran her campaign basking in the belief that it was in the bag because there were more of hers than there were of his. In other words, they believed because coasts and cities.
    They were right, there were more of hers. They got beat because they wouldn't pay attention to anyone who warned them how the minority could distribute for Trump to get the ec win until it was too late.

    Elections have consequences. The philosophical alignment of the Supreme Court is a moving average of the governing philosophies of the current president along with those of the past few presidents, and to a lesser degree, of the control of the senates.

    Kavenaugh will slide through, and he should. He is a conservative. Trump has trans-conservative philosophy, or, at least, made socially conservative promises in the campaign, and those are promises he can and will keep.
    As of right now, Trump is President. The Senate is controlled by those with conservative views.
    End of story.

  52. [52] 
    LeaningBlue wrote:

    [8] - This is just another Omarasa tell all, another Fire & Fury that is based on bullshit.

    michale, ixnay on the ullshitbay that it's a work of fiction. Set aside the fact that this is, what, his sixth? book on most of the presidents' White Houses since Nixon, and he's learned how to write these and protect himself.

    Listen to the whole 11 minutes of his conversation with Trump. Not the Trump "nobody told me" part. The interesting part is where Woodward introduces the assistant listening in who has the job of transcribing all of the interview tapes. She has job security; there's more than 200 taped interviews and conversations.

    You sling around accusations that commenters are party slaves and (recovering) Hillary worshipers. In view of that -and you're not 100% wrong in your accusations, imo- your rejection of reality in slavish defense of Trump is, well, ironic.

  53. [53] 
    Kick wrote:

    I think the NYT op-ed is Jarvanka.

    It just makes sense. :)

  54. [54] 
    LeaningBlue wrote:

    Crazytown indeed.

    This is a lot more fraught that Omarosa. This can be viewed as the hand off from the focus being on the investigations. Woodward's disclosures is the opening line in the campaign against Trump. I mean of the midterms. Campaigns don't have black out periods before elections like DoJ guidelines. That's sort of the point of campaigns.

    In other words, what we're seeing here is the oppositions theme why people should vote against Trump in November, even as they weigh their congressional candidates' positions on pocketbook issues.

    Now there's an anonymous "senior administration official" op ed about how we're in 25th territory. This is dangerous for the NYT. I'll bet the decision to run that went all the way up.

  55. [55] 
    LeaningBlue wrote:

    [53] - I think the NYT op-ed is Jarvanka.

    I doubt it, because Daddy.

  56. [56] 
    Kick wrote:

    LB
    55

    I doubt it, because Daddy.

    Can you grasp the concept that it was done for "Daddy"?
    Think big picture, LB.

  57. [57] 
    LeaningBlue wrote:

    I can grasp the concept that something like this could be done to the father of a patriot, because then it would be for the republic. I don't see the Kushner kids fitting that description.

    Whoever this was -and I suspect we'll all know soon enough- has to be someone who is personally and politically secure enough to be immune from the fallout, and someone who is deeply committed to the constitutional exercise of the powers of the president.

  58. [58] 
    neilm wrote:

    The timing of this op-ed is interesting. The senior WH staff basically had to recite a loyalty oath to the traitor denying any truth in the quotes attributed to them. A smart one might have seen this coming and balanced it with an anonymous op-ed.

    I doubt Woodward got much wrong in his book. Mattis said "fifth- or sixth-grader". That will turn out to be a fact.

    Mattis is playing the "ends justify the means" game, placating the clown to keep his position so he can exercise some control over the fiasco going on. I assume Kelly is doing the same thing, both for the good of the country, as they see it.

    When this embarrassment of an administration is over and the actors can speak freely, the books and mini-series are going to be fascinating, and hopefully hilarious (because they have managed to keep things somewhat under control).

    The long term impact of wasting years that should have been spent addressing climate change, the authoritarian leaning Supreme Court and the inept Federal judges will smell for decades, but that is what we get when people like Don put individual crackpot schemes ahead of just voting for the sensible candidate, or just don't bother to engage at all.

  59. [59] 
    neilm wrote:

    "We’re doing this in order to prevent World War III," Mr Mattis explained

  60. [60] 
    LeaningBlue wrote:

    Clarification: In [57], I mean to that something like this op-ed could be done to their own father by a patriot.

  61. [61] 
    James T Canuck wrote:

    "TREASON" he cried...it's treason I tell you.

    "President Trump is facing a test to his presidency unlike any faced by a modern American leader.
    It’s not just that the special counsel looms large. Or that the country is bitterly divided over Mr. Trump’s leadership. Or even that his party might well lose the House to an opposition hellbent on his downfall.
    The dilemma — which he does not fully grasp — is that many of the senior officials in his own administration are working diligently from within to frustrate parts of his agenda and his worst inclinations.
    I would know. I am one of them.
    To be clear, ours is not the popular “resistance” of the left. We want the administration to succeed and think that many of its policies have already made America safer and more prosperous.
    But we believe our first duty is to this country, and the president continues to act in a manner that is detrimental to the health of our republic.
    That is why many Trump appointees have vowed to do what we can to preserve our democratic institutions while thwarting Mr. Trump’s more misguided impulses until he is out of office.
    The root of the problem is the president’s amorality. Anyone who works with him knows he is not moored to any discernible first principles that guide his decision making.
    Although he was elected as a Republican, the president shows little affinity for ideals long espoused by conservatives: free minds, free markets and free people. At best, he has invoked these ideals in scripted settings. At worst, he has attacked them outright.
    In addition to his mass-marketing of the notion that the press is the “enemy of the people,” President Trump’s impulses are generally anti-trade and anti-democratic.
    Don’t get me wrong. There are bright spots that the near-ceaseless negative coverage of the administration fails to capture: effective deregulation, historic tax reform, a more robust military and more.
    But these successes have come despite — not because of — the president’s leadership style, which is impetuous, adversarial, petty and ineffective.
    From the White House to executive branch departments and agencies, senior officials will privately admit their daily disbelief at the commander in chief’s comments and actions. Most are working to insulate their operations from his whims.
    Meetings with him veer off topic and off the rails, he engages in repetitive rants, and his impulsiveness results in half-baked, ill-informed and occasionally reckless decisions that have to be walked back.
    “There is literally no telling whether he might change his mind from one minute to the next,” a top official complained to me recently, exasperated by an Oval Office meeting at which the president flip-flopped on a major policy decision he’d made only a week earlier.
    The erratic behavior would be more concerning if it weren’t for unsung heroes in and around the White House. Some of his aides have been cast as villains by the media. But in private, they have gone to great lengths to keep bad decisions contained to the West Wing, though they are clearly not always successful.
    It may be cold comfort in this chaotic era, but Americans should know that there are adults in the room. We fully recognize what is happening. And we are trying to do what’s right even when Donald Trump won’t.
    The result is a two-track presidency.
    Take foreign policy: In public and in private, President Trump shows a preference for autocrats and dictators, such as President Vladimir Putin of Russia and North Korea’s leader, Kim Jong-un, and displays little genuine appreciation for the ties that bind us to allied, like-minded nations.
    Astute observers have noted, though, that the rest of the administration is operating on another track, one where countries like Russia are called out for meddling and punished accordingly, and where allies around the world are engaged as peers rather than ridiculed as rivals.
    On Russia, for instance, the president was reluctant to expel so many of Mr. Putin’s spies as punishment for the poisoning of a former Russian spy in Britain. He complained for weeks about senior staff members letting him get boxed into further confrontation with Russia, and he expressed frustration that the United States continued to impose sanctions on the country for its malign behavior. But his national security team knew better — such actions had to be taken, to hold Moscow accountable.
    This isn’t the work of the so-called deep state. It’s the work of the steady state.
    Given the instability many witnessed, there were early whispers within the cabinet of invoking the 25th Amendment, which would start a complex process for removing the president. But no one wanted to precipitate a constitutional crisis. So we will do what we can to steer the administration in the right direction until — one way or another — it’s over.
    The bigger concern is not what Mr. Trump has done to the presidency but rather what we as a nation have allowed him to do to us. We have sunk low with him and allowed our discourse to be stripped of civility.
    Senator John McCain put it best in his farewell letter. All Americans should heed his words and break free of the tribalism trap, with the high aim of uniting through our shared values and love of this great nation.
    We may no longer have Senator McCain. But we will always have his example — a lodestar for restoring honor to public life and our national dialogue. Mr. Trump may fear such honorable men, but we should revere them.
    There is a quiet resistance within the administration of people choosing to put country first. But the real difference will be made by everyday citizens rising above politics, reaching across the aisle and resolving to shed the labels in favor of a single one: Americans.
    The writer is a senior official in the Trump administration."

    A funny thing happened on the way to the forum.
    Crazy town indeed.

    LL&P

  62. [62] 
    James T Canuck wrote:

    No idea who this is, don't care either. I read it a couple of times, as is my thing (I reread books I like because I enjoy prose, I've read the four part trilogy of Hitchhiker's Guide To The Galaxy a dozen times since I heard the original radio version, and Douglas Adams finally pulled his finger out and wrote the books.)

    My impression is it's written by a woman. Gender reveals itself in prose.

    LL&P

  63. [63] 
    John M wrote:

    [19] Michale

    "It was efficient because of GERMAN CULTURE, NOT because Nazism ITSELF was efficient.

    That's YOUR politically correct spin on Spock's statement.."

    FIRST of all, it was NOT SPOCK'S Statement. It was the Historian JOHN GILL, who made the quote, NOT SPOCK.

    "East Germany was ALSO the MOST efficient COMMUNIST state in the world

    Complete and utter bullshit..

    There was no "East Germany" at the time of the Nazis.."

    I NEVER said there WAS. What I said was that of ALL the communist states of the East Bloc, East Germany functioned the best. Something that was widely acknowledged after the Berlin Wall's fall. One example, the Secret Police Force of East Germany was widely known to be even better than that of the Soviet Union.

    "And NO ONE with more than 2 brain cells to rub together would EVER call Communist East Germany "efficient".."

    AGAIN, depends on WHAT you are comparing it to. Compared to other communist nations, it was the BEST of the WORST in terms of efficiency.

    "Germany, regardless of whether it is Capitalist, Socialist, Communist, or Nazi, would probably still be the most efficient example of any of those systems, simply because of inherent GERMAN CULTURE.

    That's spin, not fact..."

    Actually it is FACT. Name the 3 greatest capitalist nations today. Who's on everybody's list? The United States, Japan, and Germany. There's a REASON for that.

    "As for Hamas, no of course not. But BECAUSE Hamas BUILDS schools and hospitals, while Fatah is mired in corruption and does not, DOES go a long way towards explaining Hamas's support and popularity among poor Palestinian masses.

    Which is completely negated by terrorism being official Hamas policy.."

    In YOUR OPINION. It still doesn't change REALITY ON THE GROUND, which IS Hamas's support among the people of the Gaza Strip. There is a reason they have such support, which I have already given you. Again, counter insurgency 101 would tell you you have to win over hearts and minds. Hamas does THAT by building hospitals and schools. The FACT that they are ALSO TERRORISTS does not change the former. You want to undercut their support, you have to win those hearts and minds back AWAY from THEM.

  64. [64] 
    neilm wrote:

    So the trade war is working just as well as you would expect it to when the Supreme Leader is a blithering idiot.

    Trade Deficit Jumps 9.5% to 5-Month High: Exports Down, Imports Up

    The Census Bureau's International Trade Report shows the goods and services deficit was $50.1 billion in July, up $4.3 billion from $45.7 billion in June, revised.

    The deficit with China increased $1.7 billion to $34.1 billion in July. Exports decreased $1.0 billion to $11.0 billion and imports increased $0.7 billion to $45.2 billion.

    What a clown show.

  65. [65] 
    LeaningBlue wrote:

    Gender reveals itself in prose.

    But not in poetry, because all male poets are gay.

    IT'S A JOKE!! A non-politically correct joke. It's just that I don't know shit about Star Trek and felt left out in that previous discussion. I did see Patrick Stewart perform live one time, though. It was one-man of A Christmas Carol, though, not as Captain Pickard.

    Have to go.

  66. [66] 
    John M wrote:

    GILL: Planet fragmented. Divided. Took lesson from Earth history.
    KIRK: But why Nazi Germany? You studied history. You knew what the Nazis were.
    GILL: Most efficient state Earth ever knew.
    SPOCK: Quite true, Captain. That tiny country, beaten, bankrupt, defeated, rose in a few years to stand only one step away from global domination.
    KIRK: But it was brutal, perverted, had to be destroyed at a terrible cost. Why that example?
    SPOCK: Perhaps Gill felt that such a state, run benignly, could accomplish its efficiency without sadism.
    KIRK: Why, Gill? Why?
    GILL: Worked. At first it worked. Then Melakon began take over. Used the. Gave me the drug.

  67. [67] 
    James T Canuck wrote:

    [65] *hand on shoulder

    There, there.

    Leaning, there's no shame in exclusion.

    Interesting is that you chose that particular social wedge.

    :)

    LL&P

  68. [68] 
    John M wrote:

    If you don't think culture has a huge impact, think of the innovators in the world. The USA, Britain, Germany, Europe in general, Japan, Korea, China.

    There's a reason airplanes, jets, rockets, computers, televisions, telephones, etc. were invented or are largely manufactured in these nations. While in the case of the USA, Germany, and China, geography plays a large part, culture is also the other half of the equation.

    Britain has often been described as a nation of small shop keepers. Chinese throughout southeast Asia, in places like Malaysia, etc. are widely considered to be the mercantile class.

    What areas of the world are consider stifling on the other hand? Feudal Latin America, Spain and Italy, Medieval Europe before the Renaissance, Tsarist Russia with its Feudal serf system, then Communist Russia, India with it socially stratified Caste system, the Islamic nations with their stifling conservative religious theocracy who haven't experienced their own version of a Renaissance yet in modern times.

  69. [69] 
    James T Canuck wrote:

    [66]

    No, no, no, Mr.Shatner, it's...

    But it was...… brutal......perverted...... had to be...... destroyed...... at a terrible cost......Why that example?

    Erm…...thanks.

    LL%P

  70. [70] 
    Kick wrote:

    LB
    57

    I can grasp the concept that something like this could be done to the father of a patriot, because then it would be for the republic. I don't see the Kushner kids fitting that description.

    I think the person(s) behind this letter is likely more interested in covering their own ass(es).

    Whoever this was -and I suspect we'll all know soon enough- has to be someone who is personally and politically secure enough to be immune from the fallout, and someone who is deeply committed to the constitutional exercise of the powers of the president.

    It's a cover your ass letter... a CYA. When the shit hits the fan, the author(s) will claim they tried to warn everybody. :)

  71. [71] 
    Don Harris wrote:

    Neilm (58)-
    Thank you for acknowledging that my approach has been effective with your claim that I and people like me are responsible for Hillary losing.

    Hope you have learned your lesson and will now encourage the Democrats to offer candidates that will appeal to people like me starting with running their campaigns with small contribution so we can believe their promises.

    Now that neilm has declared us a force in politics, CW should have no problem writing aboot One Demand and the current opportunity to mobilize some of the 125 million probable non-voters in 2018 to participate in One Demand instead of wasting their vote by not voting and put our newfound political influence to work on improving our political process and putting pressure on the Democratic Party and all candidates to choose small contributions over Big Money to finance their campaigns.

  72. [72] 
    Don Harris wrote:

    And a candidate that takes Big Money cannot be considered a sensible choice if you expect that candidate to represent ordinary citizens instead of their Big Money contributors.

  73. [73] 
    LeaningBlue wrote:

    [57] Interesting is that you chose that particular social wedge. ^1

    Well, it could be evidence of my homophobia. Wait, whatever homophobia I may or may not have doesn't bubble out though that crack I made. ^2

    It could be a snarky slur arising from residual, resentful, anti-hippy attitudes, coming back from my undergrad days when the guys who'd take poetry and lit classes would get laid all the time. Wait, now as I remember, they mostly got laid by girls, so it couldn't be that.

    Could be it's an ironic parody of general right wing bigotry and dominance attitudes that often underpin a lot of the sexual-behavior invectives deployed in the recent flame war.

    Or, your original observation could have been the last thing I read as I closed the browser, I literally had only a couple minutes, and it was the only thing I could think of to distract from the evolving news of this afternoon.

    If I offended anyone, I genuinely apologize for that.

    _________________________________

    ^1. There may be a stray word orphaned by quick editing, but "interesting is" has a Yoda-like feel to it. I might not know much Trek, but I do know a little Star Wars.

    ^2. I could have written that my homophobia doesn't bubble out through my crack, but I'm tryin' to be serious here.

  74. [74] 
    James T Canuck wrote:

    Here's the cypher to the undoing of the subversion...if the NYT can be trusted to have printed, verbatim, the Op-Ed, I noticed some strange punctuational inconsistencies. I'm lousy at my own punctuation, but after a few readings I notice mess. Not my own, I don't hold myself to that standard, I'm not paid.

    “There is literally no telling whether he might change his mind from one minute to the next,”

    We may never know who said this, but if it was said, someone knows to whom it was said.

    The only other conclusion I get from the syntax is, this is a Trump White House ruse generated to set people's minds at ease, that there are 'adults in the room.' Coming suspiciously on the heels of Woodward's book glimpse, seemingly corroborating what we heard, but slyly soothing our fears, I suspect the fix is in.

    It also has the added value of generating conspiracy...and we all know who peddles in that shit, to his delight.

    Thoughts?

    LL&P

  75. [75] 
    Michale wrote:

    LB,

    You sling around accusations that commenters are party slaves and (recovering) Hillary worshipers. In view of that -and you're not 100% wrong in your accusations,

    Thank you.. It's nice to have confirmation of this from such a distinguished commenter.. :D

    imo- your rejection of reality in slavish defense of Trump is, well, ironic.

    While I will concede that, on occasion, I have gone "Weigantian" and will also concede that Woodward's book is from a more distinguished author....

    It's a stone cold fact that, from the previous hysterical anti-Trump tomes, HUGE inconsistencies have been discovered. So much so, that it's only logical to view those "tell alls" with great distrust...

    But for those who WANT to believe what they say, who see vindication in what those books say, it's gospel..

    I am certain we're going to find the same thing about Woodward's book.. A buttload of inconsistencies that calls the entire book into question..

    And, not wanting to rub it in (I sincerely do respect the hell out of you) but there has been instances where you turned out to be wrong and I have turned out to be factually accurate.. The Lanny Davis issue comes to mind.

    As I said, I don't mean to rub it in, cuz I imagine it's a sore spot for you...

    But I do believe that I *DO* have some street cred with the entire President Trump issue.... :D

  76. [76] 
    Bleyd wrote:

    My thoughts on the Op-Ed are that it's most likely from either Mattis or Kelly. It doesn't read to me like someone out to spite Trump, but rather like someone who fully recognizes that undermining a sitting president in such a way could be interpreted as treasonous, but that they have a duty to a higher power, the nation itself, so they must proceed. It is worth noting that the oath taken by officers differs from those of enlisted soldiers in a key way. The oath for enlistment swears to obey the orders of the president, while the oath for officers only demands allegiance to the constitution. A military general such as Mattis or Kelly could recognize this distinction as a justification for acting against the president in defense of the nation.

  77. [77] 
    Michale wrote:

    Bleyd,

    That's an excellent assessment but I think you are wrong for over very important reason..

    A reason those who have not worn the uniform(s) of the US Military would likely miss..

    Publishing anonymously like this is cowardice, pure and simple...

    Cowardice is simply not in the lexicon when referring to great military leaders like Kelly and Mattis...

    If they were to oppose the President in this manner, they would do it publicly and would own it..

    You could be right.. But I don't think so...

    Nothing in Kelly's or Mattis' past would indicate that they would try this type of end around, rather than standing proud and owning it..

    On the other hand, I never thought someone like Comey would be a disgusting and cowardly leaker...

    So I could be wrong..

  78. [78] 
    Michale wrote:

    That's an excellent assessment but I think you are wrong for over very important reason..

    "Mr Gambini?? That was a reasoned, rational and well thought out objection.... OVERRULED..."
    -Judge Chamberlain Hollar, MY COUSIN VINNY

    :D

  79. [79] 
    Bleyd wrote:

    M77

    I'm not sure the writer would consider it to be cowardly. Don't get me wrong, I understand your thinking, and I'm not entirely in disagreement with it, but I can also see how someone could rationalize such a thing. For one thing, just putting out this story can be seen as a pretty brave thing. My understanding is that the NYTimes actually does know the writer's identity, so they're not entirely anonymous, they just aren't looking to make it widely known. You may still consider this cowardly, but I can think of an alternate explanation that fits. In writing anonymously, they have ensured that the word has gotten out, something they deem for the good of the nation, but at the same time are protecting not just themselves, but the others within the whitehouse who are involved in the "resistance". To put a name on the op-ed puts them in greater danger as well, something a soldier would not want to do. Additionally, if they truly feel that what they are doing is for the good of the nation, then it is in the nation's best interest (in their mind) to continue doing so. Revealing their identity would necessarily result in their expulsion from the whitehouse at the very least, preventing them from further aiding the nation. A devoted serviceman would choose to continue serving rather than be perceived as being brave.

  80. [80] 
    Michale wrote:

    To put a name on the op-ed puts them in greater danger as well, something a soldier would not want to do.

    Putting their name on it only puts them in danger of being fired...

    Offseting that "danger" is hordes and hordes of NeverTrumpers worshiping him..

    Claiming "danger" is like saying Kapernutz "sacrificed everything"

    Having said that, I DO see your point.. Merely penning the OpEd could be considered "brave" by some people's standards.. It's a claim I understand but don't agree with..

    "I said I understand. I did not say I agree.."
    -Commander Spock, STAR TREK, A TASTE OF ARMAGEDDON

    The overall point that has been made is the one and only point that is relevant, in my not so humble opinion..

    This man is supplanting HIS judgement over the will of the people.. An un-elected person.. An appointee is working AGAINST the administration... This person is saying, "I know what's best and to hell with the American voters who voted this man in.."

    Now, I am sure that you and the rest of the NeverTrumpers don't have a single bit of a problem with this un-elected appointee telling the American voters to go frak themselves, that HIS will is more important than their votes...

    I just can't help but wonder how you would feel if it was an un-elected appointee in the OBAMA Administration who tried to supplant YOUR VOTE with their will...

    I would be willing to wager a buttload of quatloos that, under THOSE conditions, you would have a very BIG problem with that..

    My point is, this sets a VERY dangerous precedent that will likely come back and bite Democrats on the ass...

    And **EVERYONE** regardless of political persuasion should be concerned about a man who puts THEIR WILL, THEIR OPINIONS above the will of the American people...

  81. [81] 
    Bleyd wrote:

    M80

    I should be clear, I don't think what this person is doing is right. I think their actions are probably having a beneficial result for the nation, as they clearly believe as well, but I do not approve of their actions any more than you do. The correct course of action, if they are truly afraid for the country, would be to pursue a constitutional remedy, probably via the 25th amendment.

    I would also suggest that most democrats/liberals/progressives are not in support of someone undermining the president in such a way, though many are generally in support of the results. All the articles I've read relating to the op-ed speak to the danger of having the president manipulated by those who should be serving him, even the articles from sources you would consider liberal rags.

    The positive part of this op-ed to those on the left is that there is more credible evidence of the corruption and incompetence within the administration available to the public which helps to further confirm their beliefs. The actions described are terrifying, which just gives those on the left (and increasingly, the center) more reason and motivation to see Trump and those who support him removed from office as soon as legally possible.

  82. [82] 
    Michale wrote:

    I should be clear, I don't think what this person is doing is right. I think their actions are probably having a beneficial result for the nation, as they clearly believe as well, but I do not approve of their actions any more than you do. The correct course of action, if they are truly afraid for the country, would be to pursue a constitutional remedy, probably via the 25th amendment.

    OK fair enough. I appreciate you making that completely clear...

    The positive part of this op-ed to those on the left is that there is more credible evidence of the corruption and incompetence within the administration available to the public which helps to further confirm their beliefs.

    There was no mention of corruption.. The "incompetence" is grossly subjective and, if the anon guy IS Mattis or Kelly (which I fervently hope it is not as I respect the hell out of both men) then what looks like "incompetence" to a military man is nothing more, within the civilian environment, than how sausage is made..

    Gross and disgusting, but pretty tasty in the end. :D

  83. [83] 
    Bleyd wrote:

    The very act of one of the senior officials undermining the president in such a way is a form of corruption from the administration.

  84. [84] 
    Michale wrote:

    The very act of one of the senior officials undermining the president in such a way is a form of corruption from the administration.

    But it's corruption AGAINST the President and the Administration, not corruption FROM the President and/or Administration..

    This saboteur has made it clear he is NOT representing the administration, but rather trying to sabotage the administration..

    That IS corrupt, I grant you, but the Administration cannot be blamed for that corruption..

    ESPECIALLY if this person is part of "the resistance" as he claims to be..

  85. [85] 
    Bleyd wrote:

    His senior officials are part of the administration. While it may not be Trump personally, his administration is not just him, but also those he has appointed around him. While I do think Trump is personally corrupt, corruption from others within his administration is just as bad. While Trump may not acknowledge it, while he's president, the buck stops with him. He is responsible for corruption within his administration, and it's on him not just to root it out, but to prevent it from taking root in the first place.

  86. [86] 
    James T Canuck wrote:

    [79] ". In writing anonymously, they have ensured that the word has gotten out, something they deem for the good of the nation, but at the same time are protecting not just themselves, but the others within the whitehouse who are involved in the "resistance". "

    To my eye, something just feels wrong about this, and you highlight my reservation...Given all I know about active 'resistance' in such a high stake environments. ( I site my broad knowledge and decades of interest in WW2 in general, but the French Resistance in particular.) No serious, or genuine resistance would dream of revealing themselves as operational or even in existence. It's just not done, especially in an environment where simple attrition could smoke out the members.
    Unless this 'resistance' is just as dysfunctional as the system they claim stewardship over, I can't get past that obvious killer of any secret entity...self identification, and admitting of existence.
    It's covert operations 101.

    The proof will be in the pudding, what we all know about Trump, and how things stick in his craw (and I do actually feel bad for the guy if this turns out to be true, above all else I loath those without the courage of their convictions.) How long do you think Trump will go on bringing this 'resistance' up for just existing? don't include the inevitable future blame he'll cast on this 'resistance' when he's casting about for someone to blame for something.

    My guess is the usual two-three day tweet cycle he assigns to most bogus subjects, week at the most.

    LL&P

  87. [87] 
    Michale wrote:

    While Trump may not acknowledge it, while he's president, the buck stops with him. He is responsible for corruption within his administration, and it's on him not just to root it out, but to prevent it from taking root in the first place.

    So, then you would agree that Obama was responsible for ALL the bad things that happened in HIS administration, even if he was not personally aware of it or part/parcel to it??

    Would you agree with that???

    Because that's the standard you are holding President Trump to.. It seems to me that EVERY President should be held to that standard, regardless of the -D or -R after their name???

    WOuld that be an accurate assessment of your position??

  88. [88] 
    James T Canuck wrote:

    [87] I would, happily. It's a point well made. No one side can be held to a higher standard than the other. The only question is, when does this comeuppance or responsibility kick in? A few years down the road or in real time.

    LL&P

  89. [89] 
    James T Canuck wrote:

    Another curious statement on this saga...

    "White House counselor Kellyanne Conway has suggested the author of The New York Times op-ed on President Donald Trump could be any one of more than 100 people, and is not necessarily by someone working in the White House."

    Her Husband would have to be top of a few lists for them that are hook, line and sinker in this stinker of an Op-Ed.

    LL&P

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