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From The Archives -- Labor's Agenda Should Become Democrats' Top Priorities

[ Posted Monday, September 3rd, 2018 – 16:39 PDT ]

Happy Labor Day, everyone!

I wrote the following column last year, and sadly it still mostly applies. The Democratic Party has made some progress on the following issues, but by and large it has been individual Democratic candidates who have been left to carry this banner forward -- some of whom have done so in remarkable ways. Many pro-Labor and Progressive candidates have now advanced to the general election as Democratic nominees, which is good news. And, it must be said, when you discount all the hand-wringing happening inside the Beltway over what Democrats should be campaigning on, out in the rest of the country, Democrats have been running pretty solid campaigns on precisely the issues voters want addressed in a positive manner: healthcare, education, and lots of pro-Labor pocketbook issues.

Even so, I thought it was worth a reminder of how Labor issues could and should be at the center of the Democratic Party's agenda, because they are issues that could make life better for millions upon millions of Americans, especially those who don't even have the option of joining a Union. We now have a year and a half of Republican rule (House, Senate, and White House), so comparing the record of what they've done for working-class Americans (not much) to what could be achieved with a little political will is a pretty easy (and stark) contrast to make.

So here is last year's column, which would need very little updating to reflect the current situation (other than drawing those contrasts with the Republicans' actual record, really). Enjoy, and hope everyone had a happy Labor Day weekend.

 

Originally published September 4, 2017

Since today is Labor Day, I thought it was time to point out something that seems incredibly obvious to me. If you listen to the inside-the-Beltway chatter, Democrats are currently seen as floundering around, searching for an agenda. This is less true than the cocktail-party-circuit crowd believes, but whatever. Simultaneously, Democrats are urged to try to win back the working-class vote, because Donald Trump supposedly seduced them all away with his empty promises. Again, the answer to this perceived problem is pretty obvious. The Democratic Party needs to rededicate itself to the Labor agenda -- thus giving it a solid agenda to fight for, and also a perfect way to woo back white working-class voters.

There are plenty of items on the Labor agenda to choose from, because workers' rights have atrophied so much in the past few decades. Democrats need to select a limited number of these, and then promise immediate action on all of them should they win back control of either house of Congress. Here are six quick suggestions for changes that Democrats could easily champion:

 

Fight for a $15-an-hour minimum wage, with COLA

This one is the most obvious, and indeed is already part of the Democratic platform. This needs to be front and center in the Democratic campaign, next year. After all, the only people really opposed to raising the minimum wage are Republicans. Some Democrats are leery of going all the way to $15 per hour, but the likelihood is that any bill that passes will have a generous transition period built in to it, which should allay these fears somewhat. But "Maybe ten bucks for rural areas, twelve-fifty for small towns, and fifteen for the cities" is not an effective political slogan. "Fight for $15" is. Democrats need to bite the bullet and wholeheartedly support $15 an hour. If the minimum wage rises, it will send ripples of rising wages from the bottom upwards through all the corporate ladders out there. It will benefit everyone, and is the exact opposite of trickle-down economics, so it is a perfect fit for Democrats.

Much more important than quibbling about the target number, though, is a side issue few have really noticed yet. To forever end the partisan gridlock surrounding the minimum wage, Congress needs to free itself from ever having to fight this fight again, by passing a minimum wage hike with a built-in cost of living adjustment. Having a COLA means every year the minimum wage creeps upwards a bit -- which should avoid gigantic political battles over the subject, forever. Congress has already proved this possibility, with their own wages. They used to have enormous political fights over raising their own pay, until they decided to just give themselves a COLA and never have to vote for it again. The same thing can happen with the minimum wage, if an adequate COLA is written into the law.

 

Overtime pay for everyone under $50,000 a year

Barack Obama dithered on this, but finally did come through with a new overtime rule for all workers. But because he had waited so long, it was easy for Trump to block the move when he took office. Basically, the rule mandates that everyone under a certain base pay per year be paid on an hourly basis, period. This includes overtime for hours worked past a 40-hour workweek. So instead of businesses being able to exploit workers by calling them "managers" -- thus avoiding any overtime pay at all -- people would be paid for the hours they work, until they are paid a professional's salary (which should be pegged at $50,000 a year or even higher). This will give overworked Americans either more free time to enjoy life, or more pay each week.

 

Guaranteed paid sick leave

Everybody gets sick occasionally, but not everybody has paid time off to deal with it. What we need is a universal law that states each employee will accrue paid sick leave at a certain rate. When they have more than eight hours accrued, they can take a day off and not lose their pay. This is a peace-of-mind issue that workers would welcome.

 

Guaranteed paid vacation time

If you work full time, you should get a guaranteed two weeks of paid vacation each year. Those who don't work full time should still be able to accrue vacation time (just at a slower rate, depending on the hours worked). Progressives are fond of pointing out that every other industrialized country on the planet has universal health care, but for some reason they never point out that every other industrialized country also mandates paid vacation -- and in most of them, this is much more than a mere two weeks. So why can't America join the rest of the civilized world in this respect as well?

 

Medicare for all who want it

Speaking of universal healthcare, Democrats need to bring back the idea of the "public option." People should be able to choose -- but not be forced into -- a "Medicare For All" system. It should be an option on all the individual insurance market exchanges, and it should also be open to all, not just those in a particular age group. But it should remain optional, so those who are happy with their health insurance now won't be forced into a change they don't want. But for those that do, a public option should be available for all who want it.

 

Hike the Earned Income Credit

The Earned Income Credit has one thing going for it that the others don't -- some Republicans strongly support an expansion of it. Politically, this makes it a much easier goal to achieve. The E.I.C. is a refundable credit that people can claim on their income taxes. It works to benefit the "working poor." If you work but make little money, when you fill out your taxes you may actually get a refund larger than any taxes you had to pay. Rather than paying money in income taxes, you are rewarded for working by what is essentially a government subsidy. Raising the amounts given is a very easy way to positively benefit millions of working Americans.

Of course, the problem of the "working poor" would also largely be solved by paying the working poor an actual living wage. If the minimum wage is hiked to $15 an hour, perhaps the E.I.C. wouldn't wind up being all that big a program. Still, an E.I.C. hike could take place immediately, so it still would help through the transition period from the current minimum wage as it stair-steps its way up to $15 an hour.

 

Those are just six ideas that seemed the most obvious to me. There are plenty of others out there. Breaking up big banks, strengthening anti-monopoly laws -- there are a lot of big issues left to tackle. But the whole point is that Labor has been fighting for these issues for decades, and in doing so they've figured out a concrete agenda full of such good items. All Democrats need to do is rededicate themselves towards fighting for these issues, and (importantly) fighting for them at the front of the line -- before all other Democratic agenda items. Put the worker first.

The case is pretty easy to make, because it has been made so many times before. Why should we raise the minimum wage? Because a rising tide lifts all boats, that's why. Why should every other country's workers get three, four, five weeks of paid vacation when we get none? We're as good as they are, and Democrats want to make American workers number one in the world once again! Democrats want to help workers first, because that helps people of every race, creed, religion, color, or identity all at the same time. A rising tide lifts all boats.

As I said, the case is pretty easy to make, especially since all the Republicans have to offer in response is trickle-down economics: "We'll give your boss another gigantic tax cut and maybe your life will improve, somehow!" If, after all of Trump's grandiose promises, this is all that happens under his watch, then the case for Democrats to make against it will be even easier.

The best way to make sure a Trump never happens again in American politics is to beat him at his own game when it comes to the American worker. Imagine if a Democratic Congress and a Democratic president swept into office and enacted these six items into law in their first 100 days of office. Tens of millions of people's lives would improve almost immediately, and they'd have Democrats to thank for the change. Rather than just blather about making America great again, Democrats could actually deliver concrete and positive change for American families across the land. If the Democrats really are searching for a platform, all they need to do is stop by the local Union hall and they'll find a great agenda waiting for them, chock-full of good ideas to champion.

-- Chris Weigant

 

Follow Chris on Twitter: @ChrisWeigant

 

136 Comments on “From The Archives -- Labor's Agenda Should Become Democrats' Top Priorities”

  1. [1] 
    Elizabeth Miller wrote:

    This is just one more reason why Joe Biden should be the next Democratic presidential nominee.

    That labor's agenda has not become Democrats' top priorities is a mystery to me and why Trump is president.

  2. [2] 
    C. R. Stucki wrote:

    When a writer raises the subject of "labor's Agenda", I'm always prompted to wonder, Who sets the parameters for defining "labor's Agenda", and what are their criteria?

    Why is the current vogue min wage figure $15/hr? Why not $16, $17, or even $20/hr?

    Why one week sick leave, or two weeks, or three weeks???

    Same with paid vacation? Most European countries have up to four to six seeks paid vacation, why not the U.S.?

    The "Medicare for All" (single-payer) doesn't have that problem and of course that's because it's not primarily a labor issue.

    So, inasmuch as it's Chris putting these recommendations out, how about if he's the one to explain the whys?
    .

  3. [3] 
    Balthasar wrote:

    Tens of millions of people's lives would improve almost immediately, and they'd have Democrats to thank for the change.

    True, but recent history suggests that it may not help. After all, Obama and the Democrats rescued the economy from the brink of collapse in 2009, but got walloped in the following midterms because the GOP was able to re-focus its voters from pocketbook issues to cultural resentment.

    The GOP has already labeled any Democratic candidate that supports a public option a 'socialist'. Supporting this entire agenda would lead Republicans all the way down the conspiracy hole.

    Moreover, by the time Trump leaves office in 2020, we'll likely be into our next economic downturn, and businesses will be squealing like stuck pigs if they are 'burdened' by changes like these in 2021 (the soonest such legislation could be passed and signed).

    All that said, these remain great ideas I'd support. Too bad they won't be enacted (at the federal level) for many years to come at a minimum.

  4. [4] 
    Elizabeth Miller wrote:

    The next Democratic nominee will have to have the capacity to destroy a lot of GOP myths and labels such as socialism.

    And, once again, Senator Biden is the ticket, so to speak.

  5. [5] 
    Elizabeth Miller wrote:

    True, but recent history suggests that it may not help.

    Well, in recent history, no Democratic presidential nominee has tackled these issues, head on and with the requisite skill to speak to the American people, honestly and with clarity, if not brevity.:)

    Like with most things, it's all about communication.

  6. [6] 
    Elizabeth Miller wrote:

    CRS,

    Why don't you try answering your own questions?

    This is an ideas forum, after all.

    That was a little joke.

  7. [7] 
    James T Canuck wrote:

    On Jan 1 this year Ontario implemented $14 minimum wage, to the hue and cry of small businesses about laying people off and threatening shorter hours and raising prices...The CBC did a follow up with one small business owner in Aug. When asked how it was going he said business is actually good, no lay offs and he's busier at traditional off hours. CBC then opined that more money coming in on the ground from low earners tends to go right back into business that low earners used, discount grocery stores, dollar stores, malls and restaurants, off they went again and interviewed the owners or managers of these places...lo and behold, they were doing better as well and were hiring people to boot. No shit trickle down doesn't work, trickle up does, it just takes longer to reach the top, but at least it's going to get there. We have paid sick leave here and holiday pay, it's deducted in small amounts before tax...say $20 on a $500 paycheck... it's not missed and appreciated when needed. Also we can turn any overtime or civil holiday pay into 'Liew' days, incidentally I always to Liew days, the government can't tax your time off, but they can tax the hell out of your OT! As for healthcare, I still don't know how your govt. spends so much of your annual GDP (17%) for well I don't know what you get for that as tax payers, and Canada spends 11% of its GDP and not only is universal, but it includes free dental for kids under 18, free prescriptions for kids under 12. Dunno.

    CW...I look at your proposals and I think two things at once, First I think, best of luck with any of that, the right and some the left would label it socialism and it would die with the first frost. Then, the person who has these, what I consider "the basic" package, like the cheapest cable tv package you get ABC, NBC, CBS, History, TLC, etc...that person thinks what you want is a nice starter package. I hope the US does realise some or all of these at some point. I happen to think better wages allows people to nourish themselves better, makes them happier and therefore more productive, paid leave and holidays also contribute to better mental health also...and all the things you want make people feel better about themselves and they have fewer days off work and spend less time sick and a drain health services.

    LL&P

  8. [8] 
    C. R. Stucki wrote:

    .canuck

    You just epitomized what's wrong with everybody on the left. You wrote "better wages . . makes people more productive."

    In the real world (the one where Dems/Libs never live), it's 'Being more productive makes better wages'.

    Wages are A DIRECT FUNCTION OF PRODUCTIVITY, not the other way about, for gawdsake!

  9. [9] 
    C. R. Stucki wrote:

    Liz M

    I can only speak for myself, but I normally only ask questions in order to obtain information I don't already possess, as in to get answers.

    Presumably you missed the part where I directed my questions to CW, seeing as how he raised the points.

  10. [10] 
    Elizabeth Miller wrote:

    Fair enough, CRS.

  11. [11] 
    Elizabeth Miller wrote:

    But, I think Chris's mission is often to encourage a robust discussion amongst those of us who wish to engage in a civil and informative exchange of ideas.

    I know this isn't exactly the place for that sort of dialogue but one can always hope ...

  12. [12] 
    TheStig wrote:

    Last year's column has weathered well. Enough with the philosophical (sophical?) noodling of the poltical classes. Do something that offers a fair prospect of restoring a middle class. Perfect is the enemy of progress.

  13. [13] 
    James T Canuck wrote:

    [8]

    Yank

    You do realise other countries have done this and all have found peoples health improved and productivity did go up and sick day dropped off

    Here's the pertinent info from an Economist article that refuses to post its url here, this is from a test town in the UK, granted the UK is a century ahead of the us on social programmes and how to make them work...

    "Still there are other potential impacts of higher minimum wages; one is higher productivity. Some British companies that voluntarily shifted to a higher living wage found that staff absenteeism and turnover rates reduced, and productivity improved. It is hard to disentangle cause and effect here; are better-paid staff better motivated or are employers forced to become more efficient to absorb the cost of higher wages?"

    I know it's sounds odd, but it's fact, Hundreds of similar programmes around the world all say the same thing, you can poke around on the web and ask what effect of basic living wages have on productivity and efficiency, you'll see the effects are universal.

    LL&P

  14. [14] 
    Balthasar wrote:

    As for healthcare, I still don't know how your govt. spends so much of your annual GDP (17%) for well I don't know what you get for that as tax payers, and Canada spends 11% of its GDP and not only is universal, but it includes free dental for kids under 18, free prescriptions for kids under 12. Dunno.

    You have to understand that in the US, the government, the Healthcare industry, and Doctors are in a Mexican standoff. The Government should be representing patients' interests, but is held back by Congressmen that act essentially as paid lobbyists for the other two interests.

    All of these interests except the government have significant political operations to protect themselves and ample financial backing. They are the reason that the ACA ended being a balancing act rather than an overhaul.

    That balance is what I think is protecting what's left of the ACA today, as now each side fears losing in the next round, and would rather stick with the status quo than risk having future cuts come from their slice of the pie.

    If a Democrat succeeds Trump and again attempts to overhaul the healthcare sector, and the makeup of the Senate doesn't dramatically favor his (or her) party, he'll face the same dilemma that Obama faced: the desire of the public for a public option is not matched by enough votes in the Senate to enact it. Democrats from purple states would be faced with political annihilation as the healthcare industry lavishes money on their political challengers. The President might also face a backlash for the same reason. Just for trying.

    There is one slender ray of hope: Trump's radical brand could end up harming his party for some time to come, making absolute majorities for Democrats possible in future cycles. If the anti-Trump backlash exceeds expectations this fall, watch for a repeat in 2020, and then all bets are off.

    .

  15. [15] 
    James T Canuck wrote:

    [14] I get the political lack of inertia in the US on many subjects. The system of lobby would have to go too, almost right away. While politicians remain beholden to special groups, it's irrelevant what the public demands, there's always a lobby with a bag of cash to bribe a few legislators to squash it. I did say bribe, because when you brush away all the political double speak, all that's left is money for political support.

    LL&P

  16. [16] 
    Balthasar wrote:

    Wages are A DIRECT FUNCTION OF PRODUCTIVITY

    Then we should all be better paid than we were in the 1980's, since the advent of computers has made us all significantly more productive. Moreover, computers have also introduced improvements in efficiency that have made many businesses more profitable.

    But during this same time, wages have stagnated, and the cost of living has escalated relative to take home pay.

    So where did the fruit of all of that extra productivity go? Into the pockets of the 1%.

    JTC said it right in [7]. The only rational policy is trickle-up, not trickle-down, because that's the only direction in which wealth actually flows.

    .

  17. [17] 
    Don Harris wrote:

    The case may be easy to make, but it isn't believable for the 125 million or so (about 50% of eligible voters) that will not vote in 2018.

    And it won't be believable until the Democrats provide the right answer to the questions "Why would anyone believe that you will represent ordinary citizens when you finance your campaigns with Big Money?" (Answer: They shouldn't.) and "Will you commit to financing your campaign with only with small contributions, if not- why not? (Answer: because people keep voting for us or don't vote at all even when we take Big Money and legislate or not legislate to make sure we get more Big Money in the next election cycle.)

    While Liz may believe that CW's mission is to encourage a robust discussion and an informative exchange of ideas, then I have to ask why he will not engage in a robust discussion aboot One Demand and the current opportunity to mobilize some of the 50% that will not vote in 2018 on the one issue that effects the possibility of solutions to all the other issues he wrote aboot.

    One Demand may not be perfect, but it was recently said that "Perfect is the enemy or progress."

    If the non-perfect Democrats can be discussed and supported then One Demand should also be able have it's good and it's shortcomings entered into the public discourse.

  18. [18] 
    Elizabeth Miller wrote:

    then One Demand should also be able have it's good and it's shortcomings entered into the public discourse.

    That's why we're glad to have you here, Don.

  19. [19] 
    Michale wrote:

    'Nuck

    .The CBC did a follow up with one small business owner in Aug.

    I wonder what the criteria was for selecting that ONE business owner was?? :D

    Maybe it was "Business Owner Selected Must Say Nice Things About Our Agenda"

    :D

    You do realise other countries have done this and all have found peoples health improved and productivity did go up and sick day dropped off

    You DO realize that other countries demographics and culture don't match the US's demographics and culture and, as such, isn't really indicative of anything..

    A ‘very credible’ new study on Seattle’s $15 minimum wage has bad news for liberals
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2017/06/26/new-study-casts-doubt-on-whether-a-15-minimum-wage-really-helps-workers/?utm_term=.c1179a6f59ae

    If owners are forced to pay employees more without the increased sales to justify it, employees will let go..

    It's REALITY and you can't make REALITY bend to Party ideology..

    It's THAT simple..

  20. [20] 
    Michale wrote:

    Those are all really great ideas..

    Whose gonna pay for it all??

    Oh I know, I know.. You can TAX THE RICH!!! TAX THE RICH!!!

    And what happens when the rich get sick and tired of being taxed to death and no longer strive to BE rich?? They just become satisfied with being upper Middle Class..

    THEN who is going to pay for it??

    Democrats will go after the upper Middle Class and tax THEM to death...

    Basically, the Democrat plan is to reduce all to the LOWEST common denominator..

    And THEN who is going to pay for all these goodies???

    You see, THAT is the exact problem with socialism...

    It ALWAYS runs out of other people's money...

    ALWAYS....

  21. [21] 
    Michale wrote:

    CW...I look at your proposals and I think two things at once, First I think, best of luck with any of that, the right and some the left would label it socialism and it would die with the first frost.

    The END OF DAYS are among us..

    I find myself agreeing with The Nuck...

    I guess a busted analog watch IS accurate twice a day..

    :D

    There is a reason why it would be labeled socialist by the Right and many on the Left..

    BECAUSE IT IS..

    It's not an employers job to provide social welfare for their employees...

    Employees work and employer pays employees for their work commiserate with the complexity/physical nature of the work and/or the education required to successfully accomplish the work..

    That is the ONLY consideration that should figure into pay.. The complexity or physical nature of the work and/or the education required to successfully accomplish the work..

    The fact that the employee wants a 70" 4K LED UHD SMART TV (like I have on my wall.. :D) should NOT be a consideration in determining pay..

    The fact that the employee wants a new Tesla (like my son has :D) should NOT be a consideration in determining pay..

    The fact that the employee wants to feed their family SHOULD NOT be a consideration in determining pay..

    The ONLY determining factor for pay is the job itself and what it entails..

    If a person finds that they CAN'T pay for their wants and needs with the current job, hay...

    GET ANOTHER JOB....

    Or, better yet, get a HIGHER PAYING job..

    Of course, that would require more effort from the employee but that's life...

    This idea that employers must also be social welfare nets??

    Ridiculous..

    The US didn't put a man on the moon by NASA being a social welfare agency...

    ALL of the great things we enjoy today were made possible by people putting their asses to the grind stone and working insane hours to make their lives better and everyone else's lives better..

    Put another way..

    Socialists wants to give some burger flipper at McDonalds the SAME pay as an military enlisted E-6....

    A burger flipper would make the SAME PAY as a Master Sergeant in the USAF or a Staff Sergeant in the US Army.. Those are the two branches I served in.. But it's the same for E-6s in the Marines and the Navy, plus the Coast Guard..

    Granted, the military life/work/pay is somewhat different than civilians. Military is considered "working" 24/7 for one..

    But the military does go to great lengths to plan work comparative to civilian life. 8 hrs per day, 40 hrs per week, etc etc..

    Not including recalls or national emergencies, yer basic 702 will work 8 hrs a day, Mon-Fri with weekends and holidays off...

    And YA'ALL want to pay some burger flipper at BK the SAME as a Master Sergeant or Staff Sergeant with 2 years service???

    Where is the logic in that???

    Employers are *NOT* social welfare agencies.. That are not and SHOULD NOT be concerned with ANYTHING other than accomplishing the mission..

    If an employee wants better pay, then let said employee EARN it...

    It's really that simple and it's THAT attitude that has made the USA the *ONLY* remaining superpower..

  22. [22] 
    Michale wrote:

    "I am not going to stand up to show pride in a flag for a country that oppresses black people and people of color. To me, this is bigger than football and it would be selfish on my part to look the other way. There are bodies in the street and people getting paid leave and getting away with murder."
    Kapernutz

    There you have it.. From the head Hate America asshole himself..

    All of the kneeling *IS* about shitting on the flag and hating on America...

    That settles THAT debate...

    The bodies on the street Kapershit is referring to are mostly there because some scumbag attacked a cop or innocent person..

    And NO ONE is "getting away with murder".. Those are are committing crimes are being punished for it..

    am12.akamaized.net/med/cnt/uploads/2016/07/Cm2gP6pW8AAAsO4-300x168.jpg

    THERE is the face of the NFL kneeling movement..

    michaelsmithnews.typepad.com/.a/6a0177444b0c2e970d01b7c879c5a4970b-pi

    And THAT is what they are all about..

    Compare THAT to Jacksonville Jags quarterback Blake Bortles who served meals to first responders during The Landing shooting in JAX...

    BORTLES should be the face of Nike, not these scumbag America/cop haters...

  23. [23] 
    Michale wrote:

    But, getting back on topic..

    Minimum wage hikes are causing businesses to cut jobs

    Minimum Wage Massacre
    In February, Wendy's CEO Bob Wright said the firm expects wages to rise at least 4% in 2017. Wendy's has three options to offset the rising costs.

    First, they could cut margins, but with an 8% margin, that's unlikely. The second option is to raise prices. Given how price-sensitive consumers are these days, that too is a non-starter. Finally, the firm could reduce the amount of labor they use… and that's exactly what they did. Wendy's eliminated 31 hours of labor per location, per week.

    However, their locations are just as busy. To keep output steady, they are planning to install automated kiosks in 16% of their locations by the end of 2017. David Trimm, Wendy's CIO said the timeframe for payback on the machines would be less than two years, thanks to labor savings.

    Market leader McDonald's has also been automating. Last November, the firm said every one of its 14,000 US stores will be replacing cashiers with automated kiosks. McDonald's has actually prioritized these changes in locations like Seattle and New York that have higher minimum wages.
    https://www.businessinsider.com/minimum-wage-leads-to-job-losses-2017-3

    So, yea... A min wage hike is great..

    For the workers that get to retain their jobs..

    For those that are canned and now have NO WAGE!??

    Well, it's not so great..

    But frak them, right!??

    They can go on welfare, just another casualty of the Dumbocrat socialist dream..

    Remember..

    SOCIALISM..

    "The Future Of The Democrat Party"

    :^/

    With THAT program, purgatory is the future of the Democrat Party.. :D

  24. [24] 
    Michale wrote:

    "Oh poop"
    -Vector, DESPICABLE ME

    :D

  25. [25] 
    Kick wrote:

    We've discussed this minimum wage issue before, and this is where my opinion differs from that settled on by Democrats in 2016. I believe the idea of raising wages as high as $15 an hour at the federal level would pose a burden to businesses in the Midwest and the South, where the cost of living is generally lower than other parts of the United States.

    Having said that, however, 2 years' time has passed since that discussion, and I say go for a graduated $15 minimum wage, but only because it sounds good on paper, and you'll most likely fall short and are likely to land somewhere in a wage range that will do less harm to those parts of the country where the cost of living across the board has for centuries remained consistently lower than the burden our fellow Americans are required to shoulder. :)

  26. [26] 
    Michale wrote:

    Police have identified the woman who was caught on video crashing her car in a high-speed chase and attempting to carjack someone — all with a baby in tow.

    Caitlyn Rodriguez has been locked up on child endangerment, possession of a controlled substance and evading arrest charges since her June 15 arrest in San Antonio, local network KSAT reported.
    http://www.foxnews.com/us/2018/09/04/cops-id-mom-who-say-brought-baby-on-high-speed-chase.html

    According to everyone here, that baby *MUST NOT* be separated from his/her mother.. :^/

    Gabberflasting... Simply gabberflasting... :^/

  27. [27] 
    Michale wrote:

    But getting back to Labor Day

    Chicago's violent Labor Day weekend leaves at least 6 dead; more than 1,000 shot since Memorial Day
    http://www.foxnews.com/us/2018/09/03/chicagos-violent-labor-day-weekend-leaves-at-least-6-dead-more-than-1000-shot-since-memorial-day.html

    Gun Control... Yea, it works SO WELL :^/

  28. [28] 
    Kick wrote:

    EM
    1

    This is just one more reason why Joe Biden should be the next Democratic presidential nominee.

    Totally agree 100%. Did you catch former VP Biden marching in the annual Pittsburgh Labor Day Parade, EM?

    http://www.post-gazette.com/local/region/2018/09/03/Downtown-Pittsburgh-Labor-Day-Parade-joe-biden-unions/stories/201809030081

    That would at the very least indicate to me that he has not ruled out a run, although I admit that might be wishful thinking on my part.

    I'm still rooting for that Biden/Booker (or similar younger generation running mate) scenario. I think Biden could definitely win on a "Clean up the Stench then Pass the Torch" type candidacy. Fingers crossed. :)

  29. [29] 
    Kick wrote:

    Balthasar
    3

    Bravo. Your post is dead on.

    One need only read the daily spamming posts on this board to recognize the success of the right-wing propaganda and disinformation machine in turning those economic/political issues on which the majority largely agree into the cultural wars that divide us.

    We the people would be wise to keep their eyes on what we have in common and work toward those shared goals that revolve around the America we have versus the one we wish we had. The American identity doesn't remotely revolve around our conformity or a shared ancestry and never has. Whether those who long for authoritarianism and obedience prefer it or not, the United States is grounded in the rule of law and our belief that everyone is guaranteed their rights to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness, and so shall it remain ever thus. :)

  30. [30] 
    Kick wrote:

    TS
    12

    Last year's column has weathered well. Enough with the philosophical (sophical?) noodling of the political classes. Do something that offers a fair prospect of restoring a middle class.

    Very well stated.

    Perfect is the enemy of progress.

    Exactly right. We would be wise to keep that in mind while also recognizing the fact that while radical change is more fun to squeal about, lasting and long-term progress is generally acquired incrementally through compromise... boring though it may be. :)

  31. [31] 
    Michale wrote:

    We the people would be wise to keep their eyes on what we have in common and work toward those shared goals that revolve around the America we have versus the one we wish we had.

    That is a very nice sentiment and you are to be commended for it..

    But, sadly, the ability of Weigantians to demonize and attack people for the SOLE reason of political disagreement is well documented...

    Yours are words to live by, to be sure..

    Unfortunately, there are millions on the Left and on the Right who make the conscious decision not to...

  32. [32] 
    Kick wrote:

    Michale
    31

    But, sadly, the ability of Weigantians to demonize and attack people for the SOLE reason of political disagreement is well documented...

    Cover your ears if you've heard this one, but you are what is easily recognizable as the quintessential and classic "ever aggrieved victim," but you are also the Weigantian who most aptly fits your description above... so you'll receive no argument from me there.

    Ponder that. :)

  33. [33] 
    Don Harris wrote:

    "I wrote the following column last year and sadly it mostly still applies."

    The first step is recognizing the problem.

    While Zappa was talking aboot TV in his rap song, it could be applied broadly across all media and to most politicians.

    "I am gross and perverted,
    I'm obsessed and deranged,
    I have existed for years
    but very little has changed.
    I'm the tool of the government
    and industry too
    for I am destined to rule
    and regulate you.
    I may be vile and pernicious
    but you can't look away.
    I'll make you think I'm delicious
    with the stuff that I say.
    I'm the best you can get-
    have you guessed me yet?
    I'm the slime oozing out
    from your TV set.
    You will obey me
    while I lead you
    and eat the garbage
    that I feed you
    until the day
    that we don't need you
    don't call for help
    no one will heed you.
    Your mind is totally controlled
    it has been stuffed into my mold
    and you will do as you are told
    until the rights to you are sold."

    I am the Slime
    -Frank Zappa

  34. [34] 
    Michale wrote:

    Cover your ears if you've heard this one, but you are what is easily recognizable as the quintessential and classic "ever aggrieved victim," but you are also the Weigantian who most aptly fits your description above... so you'll receive no argument from me there.

    Siiigggghhhhhhh

    I try to have a civil conversation and actually compliment you and you turn it into a personal attack...

    Ponder that. :)

    No need to ponder anything.. You have made it all perfectly clear..

    "Peace... There can be no peace.."
    -Alien, INDEPENDENCE DAY

  35. [35] 
    Michale wrote:

    Liz,

    Once again, I tried... :^/

  36. [36] 
    Michale wrote:

    Interesting format from, of all things, a CNN reporter...

    Justin Trudeau doesn't want to be the odd man out
    https://www.cnn.com/2018/09/02/opinions/presidential-weekly-briefing-canada-trade-vinograd/index.html

    Liz, I would be very interested in your assessment of this PDB...

  37. [37] 
    Michale wrote:

    Balthasar..

    Look at Trump's disapproval numbers, which haven't risen since his inauguration.

    I meant Trump's approval numbers.

    Once again, we have you biased opinion.....

    On Labor Day 2017, the polls were dismal for President Trump -- according to Real Clear Politics, his average approval rating was 38.5 percent, and his disapproval rating on average was 56.5 —18 points under water. But after a year of Robert Mueller investigation headlines, porn-star payoffs and strange Twitter rants, Trump's numbers are…up: 42 percent approve, 54 percent disapprove. Not great numbers, but an improvement.

    A year of virtually non-stop negative media attacks and self-inflicted political wounds, and the president is more popular? How does that happen? To quote Joe Biden from the 2008 campaign trail, "It all comes down to one three-letter word: 'Jobs.'"
    https://www.cbsnews.com/news/commentary-heres-one-reason-trumps-average-approval-rating-is-going-up/

    And then we have THE FACTS....

    :D

    Don't worry, guy... If only for your chosen moniker, I still love ya.. :D

  38. [38] 
    Michale wrote:

    President Trump

    In part because Trump's job growth is different. President Trump campaigned in the Rust Belt and told men—in particular, blue-collar, non-college-degree-holding men—that their economic future could be brighter, too.

    In 2013, well into the Obama economy, 18 percent of Americans workers said they feared it was very or somewhat likely they would lose their job in the next 12 month. This Labor Day, that number is down to 11 percent.

    Since 2013, the number of people who say there are plenty of jobs available in their communities has doubled, from around 25 percent to 50 percent today.

    In August of 2014, 30 percent of Americans said it was a good time to find a quality job. In August of 2018, it's 65 percent.

    After years of talk about the benefits of globalism and new technology for white-collar Americans, Trump told the "forgotten Americans" they would be forgotten no more, and to a degree, he's kept that promise.

    Making America Great again...

    Nothing succeeds like success.. :D

  39. [39] 
    Michale wrote:

    The top two sectors of job growth under Trump: not financial analysts or college administrators, but the mining and logging industry (up 13.5 percent since the election), along with construction and transportation. The Labor Department expects jobs in construction and extraction to grow 11 percent from 2016 to 2026.

    In fact, growth in manufacturing jobs over the past year was greater than at any time since 1995. Blue-collar work for blue-collar skills and blue-collar guys.

    This comes after years of being told by Washington elites and the media that their way of life was obsolete, that the people J.D. Vance wrote so eloquently about in "Hillbilly Elegy" had no future. Then Trump shows up, tells them they have reason to hope, and jobs—their kind of jobs—follow. Is it any surprise those workers and their families are sticking with Trump?

    This is why President Trump is kicking ass and taking names..

    He has given REAL patriotic Americans REAL hope.. Not the haughty taughty elitist "hope" that Odumbo bragged about but never actually did it...

    President Trump gives REAL tangible hope that people can SEE in their paychecks and FEEL in their gut and hearts..

    THAT is the appeal of President Trump and no elitist snobbish Dumbocrat can EVER understand...

  40. [40] 
    Michale wrote:

    We are the "deplorables", we are the "irredeemables" and we are legion... :D

  41. [41] 
    Michale wrote:

    Watching the Kavanaugh hearing live..

    Jeezus, why are Democrats so hysterically afraid of going forward with the hearing???

    They are going to lose one way or the other, but THIS way, they are simply turning off the patriotic American voter...

  42. [42] 
    Kick wrote:

    Michale
    34

    I try to have a civil conversation and actually compliment you and you turn it into a personal attack...

    You are actually proving my point. While I do recognize your attempt at a "compliment," I also easily recognize your basic modus operandi on this board. So let's review what you said, shall we?

    But, sadly, the ability of Weigantians to demonize and attack people for the SOLE reason of political disagreement is well documented... ~ Michale

    So correct me if I'm wrong here, but I missed the part where paying me what you perceived as a "compliment" followed by a pronouncement wherein you assumed the role of victim and merely repeated your near-daily exercise of attacking the entire board in regular fashion claiming they "demonize and attack" people is anything that remotely resembles a "civil conversation." A "compliment" followed by an attack on the group doesn't exactly qualify as such in my assessment.

    While I recognize you would have preferred that I agree with what you have -- in my opinion -- mischaracterized as "civil conversation," a fabrication on my part for the sake of agreement with you wouldn't exactly be factual. So... I gave you an honest answer: You are the poster on the board who most aptly matches what you're referring to as "civil conversation."

    I calls them the way I sees them.

    No need to ponder anything.. You have made it all perfectly clear..

    If it was your wish to instigate an attack on the group and expect acquiescence without recrimination, then you are correct that you needn't ponder a thing; your mind was already decided.

    If it takes agreeing with your insults toward the group in order to be considered "civilized," then I now and forever respectfully decline. :)

  43. [43] 
    James T Canuck wrote:

    [41] Could it be that they can't see three years of this guy's life? The GOP are using some version of transparency known only to themselves, my definition of the word is correct, theirs is wrong.

    Americans, in general, realise that by hiding a portion of this guys professional life, from people who have clearance to spare, looks....looks like they have something to hide. If anyone who enjoys the benefits of a democracy thinks that is 'transparency' is a fucking idiot.

    ya, I know...somewhere down line the dems did too, blah blah...my kids say the same thing all the time.

    LL&P

  44. [44] 
    Kick wrote:

    Michale
    35

    Liz,
    Once again, I tried... :^/

    Yes, Liz, he tried... to con me. The problem arose when my gullibility failed to equal his own. :)

  45. [45] 
    Michale wrote:

    I calls them the way I sees them.

    Yes you do.. The way YOU see them..

    And the problem with that is you are the type of person who hurls homophobic slurs and who thinks that attacking a man's wife and children is appropriate in this kind of forum..

    So, as YOU see them is, thank the gods, vastly in the minority in this forum..

  46. [46] 
    Michale wrote:

    President Trump,

    American manufacturers growing at fastest pace in 14 years, ISM finds
    https://www.marketwatch.com/story/american-manufacturers-growing-at-fastest-pace-in-14-years-ism-finds-2018-09-04

    Making America great again... :D

  47. [47] 
    Michale wrote:

    'Nuck

    [41]

    Thank you.. Yer opinion is noted, but irrelevant...

  48. [48] 
    Michale wrote:

    Nike's Kaepernick Ad Has Cost The Company Over $4 Billion So Far
    https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-09-04/nikes-kaepernick-ad-has-cost-company-over-3-billion-so-far

    Once again, America hating morons and scumbags underestimate the power of PATRIOTIC Americans.. :D

    Why on earth would these total fraking morons think that hating on America = good business??

  49. [49] 
    John M wrote:

    [8] C. R. Stucki

    "In the real world (the one where Dems/Libs never live), it's 'Being more productive makes better wages'.

    Wages are A DIRECT FUNCTION OF PRODUCTIVITY, not the other way about, for gawdsake!"

    You do know that this is utter B.S. right????

    As Balthasar correctly pointed out to you: Productivity has soared while wages have stagnated since the 1980's.

    This is the reason for discontent, for people feeling like the system is rigged against them, for all the wealth created going to the 1% at the top, for growing inequality AND for the election of TRUMP.

    Don't you think YOU are the one who should revise their thinking to reflect actual REALITY in the world?

  50. [50] 
    Michale wrote:

    JM,

    First off, you battened down??

    Don't you think YOU are the one who should revise their thinking to reflect actual REALITY in the world?

    Secondly, do you REALLY think you are in a position to discuss the REALITY in the world??

    You refuse to acknowledge the reality of the awesome economy and President Trump's hand in it..

    So, while I still like ya, you have to agree that you and reality are not very well acquainted..

    :D

  51. [51] 
    John M wrote:

    [20] Michale

    "And THEN who is going to pay for all these goodies???

    You see, THAT is the exact problem with socialism...

    It ALWAYS runs out of other people's money..."

    AND just HOW is that ANY different from:

    1) CUT TAXES for the wealthy! We'll let the POOR pay for the remaining government services instead by taxing them MORE or CUTTING their benefits or BOTH.

    2) SPEND MORE on the military, and fighting wars on CREDIT. We can't find 100 BILLION dollars for Medicare for ALL, it will break the bank and run up the deficit. But HEY, want to spend 10 times that! or ONE TRILLION dollars for wars in Afghanistan and Iraq. NO PROBLEM! Why worry about the fiscal consequences???

    You see, that's the problem with RIGHT WING GOODIES. It ALWAYS RUNS on people's money OTHER than the WEALTHY.

  52. [52] 
    Michale wrote:

    JM,

    1) CUT TAXES for the wealthy!

    Lemme ask you something, JM...

    How can you "cut taxes" for the poor and lower middle class when they PAY no taxes??

    Secondly, there are well documented reports of poor and middle class seeing MORE in their pay checks BECAUSE of those "tax cuts to the wealthy"....

    You see, that's the problem with RIGHT WING GOODIES. It ALWAYS RUNS on people's money OTHER than the WEALTHY.

    Since it's well documented that the people you CLAIM to represent don't pay much, if any, in taxes, you are obviously operating in a delusional echo chamber...

  53. [53] 
    John M wrote:

    [50] Michale

    "First off, you battened down??"

    Thank you for your concern. All we are getting is some rain here. So far the forecast takes Gordon toward the Mississippi and Alabama coasts, but will definitely keep an eye on it.

    "You refuse to acknowledge the reality of the awesome economy and President Trump's hand in it.."

    Oh, I see your mistake. It's not that I refuse to see Trump's hand in it. I would in fact give him credit if he did indeed were responsible for it. It is my contention however that the economy is performing well in spite of Trump, not because of anything Trump has actually done.

  54. [54] 
    Michale wrote:

    Thank you for your concern. All we are getting is some rain here. So far the forecast takes Gordon toward the Mississippi and Alabama coasts, but will definitely keep an eye on it.

    Yea, the NorthEast side of a cyclone is usually the worst part and yer gonna see some of that.. Stay safe...

    Oh, I see your mistake. It's not that I refuse to see Trump's hand in it. I would in fact give him credit if he did indeed were responsible for it. It is my contention however that the economy is performing well in spite of Trump, not because of anything Trump has actually done.

    OK.. Let me see if I understand what you are saying..

    TRUMP said he is going to do A, B and C if elected...

    Odumbo, Clinton and the rest of the Dumbocrats (and ya'all incidentally) say that if Trump is elected and does A, B and C, it will DESTROY the country and DESTROY the economy...

    Trump is elected..

    Trump does A, B and C and miracle of miracles, it works awesomely and this country has an economy that is EXPLODING in good things..

    But NOW... NOW, Odumbo and the Dumbocrats (and ya'all incidentally) are saying that ALL the good that is happening is NOT because of President Trump doing A, B and C.....

    ??????

    So, how does that work exactly???

    Trump says he is going to do A, B and C...

    Odumbo and the Dumbocrats say THAT will destroy the country and economy...

    Trump DOES A, B and C....

    Economy explodes in a very VERY good way...

    Trump is not the one who should get the credit.. The one who should get the credit are the ones who BULLSHITTED thru their teeth and said those very action would DESTROY the economy...

    ?????????

    Explain that to me...

    Gods, I really hate it when it's YOU I back into a corner like this, JM.. Because I really do like you...

    It's how I felt when Mopshell got backed into a corner over Harry Reid's illegal immigration comments..

    It's a win, but it makes me feel shitty...

    Just sose you know.. :D

  55. [55] 
    John M wrote:

    [21] Michale

    "That is the ONLY consideration that should figure into pay.. The complexity or physical nature of the work and/or the education required to successfully accomplish the work.."

    Too bad that DOESN'T apply to CEO's at the top. As their compensation is totally divorced from how well either they or their company are doing. How many times have you heard of a CEO being let go because of poor performance but yet still being let go with a generous package of millions of dollars? Can you imagine the same thing happening with a grocery store cashier??? Sorry, we are going to fire you for being totally incompetent at your job, but we are GIVING you 20,000 dollars for firing you.

    "The US didn't put a man on the moon by NASA being a social welfare agency..."

    DIDN'T WE??? We spent 4.5 % of the Federal budget on the Apollo program ONLY because it was a MILITARY race to the moon against the Russians. We only spend 0.5 % of the Federal budget on NASA TODAY. Sure sounds like MILITARY WELFARE to me!!!

  56. [56] 
    John M wrote:

    [52] Michale

    "Lemme ask you something, JM...

    How can you "cut taxes" for the poor and lower middle class when they PAY no taxes??"

    IF we WERE talking about cutting taxes for the poor or the middle class, you would have a point, but we WEREN'T, so YOU DON'T. In fact, I believe I WAS talking about RAISING taxes on the poor and middle class, no???

  57. [57] 
    Michale wrote:

    In fact, I believe I WAS talking about RAISING taxes on the poor and middle class, no???

    My mistake then...

    Oh.. do you have ANY facts to support that taxes were raised on the poor??

    Because, how can you raise taxes on a group that PAYS no taxes???

  58. [58] 
    James T Canuck wrote:

    It's tough to say some country's 'runs out of other people's money' under socialism when, neighbouring country's under opposite systems are so deeply in debt that within 10 years, their GDP will be less than their national debt.

    Some people, having never lived in a socialist leaning democracy, are utterly clueless as to what it means to do so, but that's cool for them, being wrong isn't crime, nor is ignorance, they're just choices. Whereas other people might have lived in under both systems, weighed them, and may or may not have decided which is better. Obviously the latter is eminently more qualified than the former to address the question of which system works for the average democratically aware individual, I would imagine such a person would remain in the system best suited to his or her imagining of what a well oiled democratic system can be.

    LL&P

  59. [59] 
    Michale wrote:

    Too bad that DOESN'T apply to CEO's at the top.

    It did BEFORE they became CEOs.

    And in the few cases it didn't?? Yea, I agree.. It's too bad..

    But would you prefer the government dictating to businesses who their CEO should and should not be??

    Regardless, I am not talking about those kinds of businesses..

    I am talking about the Mom and Pop businesses who are the back bone of this one remaining great superpower...

    Have you ever owned a business??

    Would you ever make a business decision based SOLELY on the welfare of your employees?? Pay an employee more because he wants a Tesla???

    We only spend 0.5 % of the Federal budget on NASA TODAY.<

    And who do we have to thank for that??

    Odumbo and the Dumbocrats...

    Thank you.. You prove my point for me..

  60. [60] 
    John M wrote:

    [54] Michale

    "Gods, I really hate it when it's YOU I back into a corner like this, JM.. Because I really do like you..."

    Again I see your mistake. Oh it's so cute you think you backed me into a corner! :-D

    What did Trump A, B, C do that made the economy roar? Cut taxes? The economy was already roaring before that. Raise tariffs and start a trade war? Yeah, I'm sure that has a positive impact. Deregulation? Marginal impact at best.

    Once again, it's my position that the economy is doing well in spite of ANYTHING Trump has tried, not BECAUSE OF. Back me into a corner, you really are so CUTE. :-)

  61. [61] 
    Michale wrote:

    'Nuck,

    Obviously the latter is eminently more qualified than the former to address the question of which system works for the average democratically aware individual,

    Yea.. Let's ask Venezuelans how the like Socialism.. :D

    Once again..

    Opinion... Noted... Irrelevant... :D

  62. [62] 
    Michale wrote:

    Chicago Mayor Rahm Emanuel says he won't run for re-election next year
    http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/politics/ct-met-chicago-mayor-rahm-emanuel-wont-run-for-reelection-20180904-story.html

    "Boom Boom Boom.. Another one bites the dust..
    And another one down and another one down...
    Another one bites the dust..."

    -Queen

    :D

  63. [63] 
    John M wrote:

    [59] Michale

    "Would you ever make a business decision based SOLELY on the welfare of your employees?? Pay an employee more because he wants a Tesla???"

    And that's the problem in a nutshell right there. Wrong equivalence or analogy. No, Of course I won't fund them a Tesla, but I might fund them a 20 year old Ford, or a bicycle. Just like I would not fund them a 60 inch plasma TV, but I would try to pay them enough so that they don't go hungry at the end of the month. Get or see the difference???

    "We only spend 0.5 % of the Federal budget on NASA TODAY.

    And who do we have to thank for that??

    Odumbo and the Dumbocrats..."

    UH NO. Obama increased funding for NASA every year, as did Democrats like Bill Nelson. It was REPUBLICAN NIXON who originally GUTTED the Apollo program.

  64. [64] 
    Michale wrote:

    On a completely unrelated note..

    Secret to Japan couple's 80 years of marriage: wife's patience
    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-japan-ageing-oldest-couple/secret-to-japan-couples-80-years-of-marriage-wifes-patience-idUSKCN1LK0XH

    A frakin' MEN to that!!! :D

  65. [65] 
    Michale wrote:

    Kaepernick won't stand for the flag but he'll bow down to the Nike dollar? So much for 'sacrificing everything'
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6130773/PIERS-Kaepernick-wont-stand-flag-hell-bow-dollar-sacrificing-everything.html

    Ooooooohhhhhh SNAP....

    Yep, Kapernutz proves once again..

    It's all about the money....

  66. [66] 
    Michale wrote:

    No, Of course I won't fund them a Tesla, but I might fund them a 20 year old Ford, or a bicycle. J

    You would???

    So, let's see.. You can fund another employee?? Or you can buy another employee who doesn't want to work for it, a car..

    While the latter may make you feel all warm and squishy, it's a bad business decision...

    UH NO. Obama increased funding for NASA every year, as did Democrats like Bill Nelson.

    That is factually inaccurate..

    http://thehill.com/blogs/congress-blog/technology/322918-how-barack-obama-ruined-nasa-space-exploration

    And I voted for Bill Nelson.. Never again...

  67. [67] 
    Michale wrote:

    What did Trump A, B, C do that made the economy roar?

    JOBS, JOBS, JOBS....

    The fact is the economy IS roaring...

    If Odumbo was responsible, why couldn't he do it BEFORE Trump was elected???

    Answer: Odumbo couldn't.. Odumbo FAILED

    *THAT* is why we have President Trump...

    Once again, it's my position that the economy is doing well in spite of ANYTHING Trump has tried, not BECAUSE OF.

    ANd yet, you are on record as saying, by commission or omission, that Trump would DESTROY the economy...

    So, we need to face the reality that your opinions are solely based on Party slavery and do no stand up to my FACTS...

  68. [68] 
    John M wrote:

    [66] Michale

    "No, Of course I won't fund them a Tesla, but I might fund them a 20 year old Ford, or a bicycle. J

    You would???

    So, let's see.. You can fund another employee??"

    UH NO. YOU know very well I was speaking as an employer, NOT as a FELLOW employee. I guess you never watched UNDERCOVER BOSS???

  69. [69] 
    John M wrote:

    [67] Michale

    "If Odumbo was responsible, why couldn't he do it BEFORE Trump was elected???"

    UH. HE DID. HE pulled us OUT of the BUSH depression.

    Answer: Odumbo couldn't.. Odumbo FAILED

    75 MONTHS of CONSTANT job creation during his presidency is a funny way to measure failure.

    "So, we need to face the reality that your opinions are solely based on Party slavery and do no stand up to my FACTS..."

    Yet again you are so cute! You actually think you have FACTS. :-)

  70. [70] 
    John M wrote:

    Also on a totally unrelated note:

    Hey Michale, have you seen this???

    https://trekmovie.com/2018/09/03/photo-of-the-day-star-trek-the-next-generation-cast-reunified/

  71. [71] 
    Michale wrote:

    UH NO. YOU know very well I was speaking as an employer, NOT as a FELLOW employee. I guess you never watched UNDERCOVER BOSS???

    Not a big fan of reality TV.. But my lovely wife watches it occasionally..

    But I may have misspoke.. My apologies.

    What I was saying is that, on the one hand, you can fund another employee because your business is growing and you can justify that..

    On the OTHER hand, you can fund a car for an employee who is too lazy to get another job to pay for a car...

    Doing the latter makes you feel all warm and squishy inside but does nothing for your business...

    So, you opt to make a good PERSONAL decision but a shitty BUSINESS decision..

    Hay, don't get me wrong.. I been there...

    75 MONTHS of CONSTANT job creation during his presidency is a funny way to measure failure.

    Yea, a few here and there.. That's pretty OK...

    But TENS OF MILLIONS of jobs are a LOT better.. :D

    I get it.. You want to cheer on yer guy and hate on the guy you hate...

    But facts are facts..

    You claimed Trump would destroy the economy..

    Now that he has made it awesome, yer trying to peddle the BS that it was all because of Odumbo..

    You were wrong before and now yer just trying to save face...

    But even if I won't let you do that, I still like ya :D

  72. [72] 
    James T Canuck wrote:

    In case you were curious...$65,000 per person for the US

    Because I was...$17,000 per person for Canada

    That's our relative debt, I know, I know, socialism takes everyone money. lets look at the facts.

    $75,697...after tax take home on $100,000 in the US.

    $73,876...after tax take home on $100,000 in Canada.

    So, it seems not only is it patently incorrect that socialism takes everyone's, we actually see that it doesn't run up massive national debt either.

    Oh well...seems universal healthcare, dental and free prescriptions until you're 18 does cost a huge amount...$1,830 per year on a 100k per year, while at the same time not accruing $38,000 of debt.

    I concede, I wanna live in Murica.

    lol, In other words, my 'socialistic democratic state' does not steal all my money to pay for my social net, it also doesn't hide it's budgetary over-reach from me in the form of a national debt.

    Now you have the facts...not my facts, the facts, all taken from the respective government sites and are not open to any debate, unless you don't trust your present government not to lie to you, and if you think they do, they would reduce numbers, not inflate them.

    Thanks for coming out.

    LL& BOOOYAA

  73. [73] 
    Michale wrote:

    Also on a totally unrelated note:

    Hey Michale, have you seen this???

    https://trekmovie.com/2018/09/03/photo-of-the-day-star-trek-the-next-generation-cast-reunified/

    Oh my gods, that is sooo awesome!!!

    I love Brent Spiner and Michael Dorn!!! And Burton!! Did you catch Spiner & Burton in that Big Bang Theory episode!!?? OMG it was hilarious... :D

    Thanx for sharing that.. Sincerely...

  74. [74] 
    Michale wrote:

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DmM_CZ7W4AEpEGU?format=jpg&name=small

    And THAT was a nice touch by a ST fan.. :D

  75. [75] 
    Michale wrote:

    That's what's so great about Weigantia..

    Regardless of all other bullshit..

    We always have Trek... :D

  76. [76] 
    John M wrote:

    [73] Michale

    "I love Brent Spiner and Michael Dorn!!! And Burton!! Did you catch Spiner & Burton in that Big Bang Theory episode!!?? OMG it was hilarious... :D

    Thanx for sharing that.. Sincerely..."

    I love Big Bang. I never miss it. And you're welcome :-D

  77. [77] 
    Michale wrote:

    Yea, sad to hear Season 12 is the last season for TBBT....

    Sheldon turned down a 50 million dollar contract...

    More power to 'im, but Bang will be missed...

  78. [78] 
    John M wrote:

    [71] Michale

    "75 MONTHS of CONSTANT job creation during his presidency is a funny way to measure failure.

    Yea, a few here and there.. That's pretty OK..."

    OMG! I actually got faint praise from you for Obama!

    "Victory is mine!" - Stewie Griffin

    ROFL!

  79. [79] 
    Kick wrote:

    Michale
    45

    And the problem with that is you are the type of person who hurls homophobic slurs and who thinks that attacking a man's wife and children is appropriate in this kind of forum..

    You are sadly mistaken if you believe that the majority on this board believes the asinine idea that you give two shits about what you're continually mischaracterizing as "homophobic slurs" when you keep requesting the posters who disagree with your regular repertoire to "suck your dick" and "kiss your ass" and regularly make excuses for the verbal diarrhea that spews forth from the Orange Blowhole of the orange man-baby of which you are the Trump cock holster. The attacks on you and your family are nothing more than the ad hominem attacks emanating from your keyboard and me pointing out how those insults are indeed your admitted situation. If you take issue with someone calling attention to your projection, then I suggest you stop hurling the descriptors which you resemble.

    So, as YOU see them is, thank the gods, vastly in the minority in this forum..

    If that were a factual statement, there would be no need for you to assume the role of the "ever aggrieved victim" who claims to never "instigate anything" but attacks the entire board routinely with your near-daily cries of "Party slaves," "bigots," "hysterical," "Dumbocrats," and your near-daily spew that everyone except you is suffering from a disease you invented. You should really clue in to your repetitive routine.

    That you need to "win" at something... anything... is painfully obvious. That you seemingly believe that you "win" something by claiming somebody "lost" and by tearing everyone else down and assuming the role of board victim, posting fake quotes, fabricating and false equivalency, and putting words in everyone else's mouths is just pathetic.

    It's your near-daily handiwork; own it. :)

  80. [80] 
    Michale wrote:

    Since Trek is much more fun to discuss than politics..

    What's yer thoughts on Discovery???

    Despite the Canon violations, I like it..

    But it was really tough to overcome the violations...

  81. [81] 
    Michale wrote:

    And once more, Crack Whore Welfare Girl ruins a perfectly good commentary, even after an olive branch is extended...

    Yes... Discussions about Trek are much more pleasant than some crack whore blog terrorist who has proven she is a waste of skin...

    The best course of action for Welfare Girl is to eat a bullet... Victoria, please do so at your earliest convenience...

    This forum would definitely be better off...

  82. [82] 
    John M wrote:

    [80] Michale

    "What's yer thoughts on Discovery???

    Despite the Canon violations, I like it..

    But it was really tough to overcome the violations..."

    I love Discovery. Can't wait for the new season.

    I thought there were really nice plot twists and references to previous Trek.

    I'd be interested to know what canon violations you exactly are having such problems with? If they jibe with mine etc. The new look for the Klingons? A never before mentioned adopted human sister for Spock? Something else? As we know, there's always a lot of room for changes, including new timelines. Nothing is ever canon until it appears, and even then can be modified later.

  83. [83] 
    Michale wrote:

    Kavanaugh’s daughters rushed out of chaotic, ‘hot’ hearing
    https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/washington-secrets/brett-kavanaughs-daughters-rushed-out-of-hearing

    Democrats got so rambunctious and violent that Judge Kavanaugh's young daughters had to be rushed from the room for their safety...

    Democrats seriously have absolutely no shame.. That's been proven here and in DC... :^/

  84. [84] 
    John M wrote:

    "Nothing is ever canon until it appears, and even then can be modified later."

    The Spore Drive? Transwarp was a failure too in the Kirk movie the Search For Spock, until it later appeared in a modified form with the Borg Transwarp conduits.

  85. [85] 
    John M wrote:

    Then there was that whole... what do we do with Guinan character??? Is she an old adversary of Q? Does she have powers to counter his? Are her people really just a long lived race of listeners? How is she more than "family" to Picard?

  86. [86] 
    Michale wrote:

    I'd be interested to know what canon violations you exactly are having such problems with? If they jibe with mine etc. The new look for the Klingons? A never before mentioned adopted human sister for Spock? Something else? As we know, there's always a lot of room for changes, including new timelines. Nothing is ever canon until it appears, and even then can be modified later.

    3 major ones...

    The technology for Discovery is a hundred or more years ahead of Kirk & Spock's Enterprise... Holographic Communications was NEW technology in Deep Space Nine's time.. The viewscreen in TOS's Enterprise was not a "window" but rather a display panel that displayed anything.. So, the technological level of Discovery is a HUGE Canon violation..

    Klingons. Klingons should be more or less human, as established in TOS and ST:Ent... These Klingons.... I don't know WHAT the hell they are!!?? Although the titty shots were.... uh... er... firmly appreciated.... :D

    The Enterprise... The Enterprise pictured at the end of Season 1 was the Enterprise of Star Trek The Motion Picture..

    It was NOT the Pike's Enterprise..

    Canon was VERY important to Roddenberry and to Trek Fans...

    Discovery threw Canon right out the window.. It's not surprising.. Discovery is helmed by the same guy who tried to distant Enterprise from Star Trek...

    But despite that, I like the show.. The action is very Trek'ian...

    Oh, and the acronym??? STD???

    SOMETHING has to be done about that... :D

  87. [87] 
    Michale wrote:

    Then there was that whole... what do we do with Guinan character??? Is she an old adversary of Q?

    I would give my right nut to see Q in Discovery...

    Q was decent in DS9, but proved he still had it in VOYAGER...

    Q in Discovery could be all sorts of Mind F**ks.... :D

  88. [88] 
    Michale wrote:

    Did you ever read any of the Q:CONTINUUM series??

    There is this one where Q & Picard go traipsing around the entire Trek universe/timeline involving characters such as the spinning globe that feeds on hate, Gary Mitchell (That was Q that possessed Mitchell after he failed to possess Kirk), Gorgon, Trelane (who is a Q), Quinn, Corbin Bernsen's Q and all sorts of Trek characters...

    It's a mega mind-treat for Trekkers..... I highly recommend...

  89. [89] 
    Kick wrote:

    Michale
    81

    And once more, Crack Whore Welfare Girl ruins a perfectly good commentary, even after an olive branch is extended...

    But enough about your wife and family situation already; your lives that you continue to project are well documented by your own posts scattered throughout Weigantia and now archived. The fact that you would confuse an insult toward the board as an "olive branch" tells everyone on the board everything they need to know.

    Yes... Discussions about Trek are much more pleasant than some crack whore blog terrorist who has proven she is a waste of skin...

    Speaking of a waste of skin, you projection is again duly noted. I would wager there is enough extra skin on your carcass to cover another entire human skeleton. If this fact actually bothers you, why don't you push your chair from the table and lose some of that girth attached to your body habitus? After your adipose tissue recedes, all that wasted skin you abhor could be donated and utilized for a higher purpose. It's a solution you could probably learn to live with and might stave off another trip to the hospital. You're welcome.

    The best course of action for Welfare Girl is to eat a bullet... Victoria, please do so at your earliest convenience...

    Translation: Michale wishes to dish it out regularly and repetitively, but he's a whiny little bitch victim when it comes to getting it back in his general direction.

    If you're asking someone to kill themselves because you can't handle some itty bitty words, you're losing. :)

  90. [90] 
    James T Canuck wrote:

    I was getting nervous when Discovery 'went through the looking glass' right off the hop. Past iterations have saved that story line for when ratings slide. DS9-Trials and Tribulations etc...
    I'm guessing a young Spock will make an appearance, among others...I'm looking forward also.

    Paul Stamets, the real mushroom hunter, for which the Discovery Stamets is named, has some good video's on youtube, being a mycologist (part time) I recommend his stuff...

    LL&P

  91. [91] 
    Kick wrote:

    JTC
    90

    Paul Stamets, the real mushroom hunter, for which the Discovery Stamets is named, has some good video's on youtube, being a mycologist (part time) I recommend his stuff...

    Live long and carefully around the toxic fungi. ;)

  92. [92] 
    Michale wrote:

    I was getting nervous when Discovery 'went through the looking glass' right off the hop.

    I was a bit concerned about the extended Mirror Universe stay as well.. But it was handled pretty well and was crucial to the story line, so I ended up enjoying it...

    Interesting to note. If you extend CANON to the novels, then the entire ST:ENTERPRISE was actually part of the Mirror Universe.. :D

    . Past iterations have saved that story line for when ratings slide. DS9-Trials and Tribulations etc...

    Actually, DS9-T&T was not due to a ratings slide.. It was to celebrate the 40th Anniversary of Trek..

    Interesting story behind that.. Originally the story was to have the Defiant visit ICONIA from A PIECE OF THE ACTION and discover that the entire planet has embraced "Star Trek" complete with conventions and such.. Think the Thermians from GALAXY QUEST...

    The uppity ups from DS9 were dining in a local eatery when in walks Charlie Brill the original Arne Darvin from ST TOS Trouble With Tribbles... The uppity ups got ta thinking... And TRIALS & TRIBULATIONS was borne..

    Another interesting thing to note.. When Bashir and O'Brien exit the transporter room after being chewed out by Kirk, the peek around the corner and see a lone red shirt petting a tribble. That red shirt is none other than David Gerrold, the author of the original Trouble With Tribbles episode.. :D

    I'm guessing a young Spock will make an appearance, among others...I'm looking forward also.

    Word is both Spock and Kirk will put in an appearance in Season 2 of STD...

  93. [93] 
    Michale wrote:
  94. [94] 
    Michale wrote:

    Word is both Spock and Kirk will put in an appearance in Season 2 of STD...

    It'll be very interesting to see how STD S02 treats Kirk..

    DS9's TRIALS & TRIBULATIONS got in one or two not so subtle digs at Kirk, much like LaForge laid into Captain Scott in TNG's RELICS...

    And there is TPTB's attempt to separate "STAR TREK" from ENTERPRISE....

    So, yea... It will be interesting to see how STD S02 treats Kirk...

  95. [95] 
    Balthasar wrote:

    Wonder what Roddenberry would think of a Supreme Court nominee that apparently approves of state-sponsored torture, and has written that he thinks that the president is literally above the law.

    Spock would add that it is illogical to hold a hearing before all of the predicate facts are known. The fact that there may be as many as 100,000 pertinent documents being withheld from the hearing ought to be reason enough to delay it until such documents can be examined.

    McCoy would interject: "My god man, why would we even consider a candidate that has already lied to us in his previous confirmation? Have we lost all of our marbles, or just the ones essential to critical thinking?"

    Picard would add: "This ambitious fellow may look like a pasty-faced would-be televangelist, or distant relative of Data, but he certainly deserves a fair hearing. It is equally true, however, that on our world, a 'fair hearing' requires a degree of transparency that the organizers of this tribunal have not lived up to. I would withdraw my participation until this situation is rectified."

  96. [96] 
    Michale wrote:

    Wonder what Roddenberry would think of a Supreme Court nominee that apparently approves of state-sponsored torture, and has written that he thinks that the president is literally above the law.

    By the Constitution, the POTUS *IS* above the law...

    As for state-sponsored torture???

    Have you ever heard of the Kobyashi Maru??

    Spock would add that it is illogical to hold a hearing before all of the predicate facts are known.

    Oh pullleeese.. This was a planned Democrat obstruction.. Facts have NOTHING to do what what the Dumbocrats did..

    The fact that there may be as many as 100,000 pertinent documents being withheld from the hearing ought to be reason enough to delay it until such documents can be examined.

    Dumbocrats had access to almost a MILLION documents about Kavanaugh..

    Do you HONESTLY believe that Dumbshitcrats will see those 100,000 documents and say, "Oh yea.. Our bust.. Kavanaugh is qualified..."

    You and I both know that yer full of shit on that claim..

    Dumbocrats were against Kavanaugh before they even KNEW he was the nominee..

    So, please.. Don't give me the bullshit that Dumbocrats want more time to look at papers..

    Now, can we PLEASE leave Trek out of your hysterical Party slavery...

    PS.... Balthazar, I still like ya... :D Just wish ya weren't played by that creep Sebastion Roche'

  97. [97] 
    John M wrote:

    [86] Michale

    "3 major ones...

    The technology for Discovery is a hundred or more years ahead of Kirk & Spock's Enterprise..."

    I was never really concerned with the "look" that much. What you can portray on the screen is very much going to change with our contemporary changing technology. Plus you can still make all kinds of excuses if you want to, like Henry Starling speeding up Earth's technological advancement in late 20th century Earth on Voyager.

    "Klingons. Klingons should be more or less human, as established in TOS and ST:Ent..."

    Again, they've evolved with bigger budgets and changing make-up technology. TOS Klingons looked so Human because of constraints on those very TWO things at the time. Though I agree you shouldn't mess with a good thing that's become so EXPECTED.

    "It was NOT the Pike's Enterprise.." Again, to me, the look is less important than the FACT of when, where and HOW Warp Drive was established. Not so much the changing look of the engine design, etc. It's still a saucer with two nacelles, that's what's important.

  98. [98] 
    John M wrote:

    [96] Michale

    "By the Constitution, the POTUS *IS* above the law..."

    Sorry, that's the most asinine statement I have ever heard. He is most certainly NOT above the law. He's not above the constitution which is the law. To say otherwise is to throw democracy, freedom and the rule of law right out the window. We might as well be living in the old Soviet Union then if that's the case.

    "As for state-sponsored torture???

    Have you ever heard of the Kobyashi Maru??"

    Not EVEN equivalent. Kobyashi Maru was certainly difficult and extremely uncomfortable, but it was a simulation with safeties and safeguards, an educational course on a test of character. It wasn't any more "torture" than the kind of training we subject our own elite military forces to. Unless you want to call that state sponsored torture also???

  99. [99] 
    Michale wrote:

    I was never really concerned with the "look" that much. What you can portray on the screen is very much going to change with our contemporary changing technology. Plus you can still make all kinds of excuses if you want to, like Henry Starling speeding up Earth's technological advancement in late 20th century Earth on Voyager.

    Oooo I love it when you talk Trek..

    But how do we know that Starling wasn't simply part of the natural timeline?? I mean, change Starling to "Gates" or "Jobs" and it fits.. :D

    Again, they've evolved with bigger budgets and changing make-up technology.

    None of which has ANYTHING to do with the Trek universe..

    You miss my point.. In the REAL world, I know why they made the changes.. Just like the made Klingons lobster heads in ST:TMP....

    Because they could...

    But we're talking CANON within the ST universe. And, according to Canon, the Klingons in STD should like more or less human....

    DS9'S TRIBBLES AND TRIBULATIONS teased us with the paradox and ST:ENT explained the paradox...

    For me, the Klingon As Human story arc was *THE* best story arc of ST:ENT.. Followed by a close second with the T'Pau/Surak/Vulcan story arc...

    "It was NOT the Pike's Enterprise.." Again, to me, the look is less important than the FACT of when, where and HOW Warp Drive was established.

    That was established in STAR TREK VII: FIRST CONTACT... Incidentially, THAT was when the regular universe and the Mirror Universe diverged, if you believe NON-CANON novels.. :D

    It's still a saucer with two nacelles, that's what's important.

    For the most part, I am a purist.. DS9's T&T could have changed the look of the Enterprise circa SPACE STATION K7 to exploit the newer television and special effects technology... But it was important to the STORY, to CANON, that it be left as it was...

    So it is with Discovery...

    The ONE thing that Roddenberry insisted on throughout ALL of Trek was consistency...

    This newer generation of Trekker-wannabes have thrown out consistency for cheap voova...

  100. [100] 
    Michale wrote:

    Sorry, that's the most asinine statement I have ever heard. He is most certainly NOT above the law.

    He most certainly is..

    If I punch Victoria in the face because she pisses me off, it's almost assured that I am going to jail...

    If President Trump punches Victoria in the face because she pissed him off, he is surely going back to the White House..

    If you commit a crime, cops or a SWAT team will knock on your door and put you down and take you to jail..

    If the President commits a crime, there are committees and hearings and MAYBE, in a few years time, if at all, the President may go to jail..

    The hell the POTUS isn't above the law..

    Not EVEN equivalent. Kobyashi Maru was certainly difficult and extremely uncomfortable, but it was a simulation with safeties and safeguards, an educational course on a test of character. It wasn't any more "torture" than the kind of training we subject our own elite military forces to. Unless you want to call that state sponsored torture also???

    The Kobyashi Maru is a test of character.. How do you, as a leader of men, respond to a NO-WIN situation..

    So it is with torturing a terrorist.. It's a no win situation.. Do you forgo your humanity and get information that will likely save hundreds???

    Or do you maintain your humanity and, as a result, see hundreds die...

    That's the Kobyashi Maru in a nutshell.. Do you follow regs, stay outside the neutral zone and allow hundreds of colonists to die??

    Or do you frak regulations and concentrate solely on saving lives at the expense of the safety of your crew and committing a court martial offense???

    The question of torture or not to torture is the KOBYASHI MARU in spades...

  101. [101] 
    Balthasar wrote:

    John M. [98]: Well argued. I have nothing to add to those points.

    [96]Dumbocrats had access to almost a MILLION documents about Kavanaugh..

    Unfortunately, the number of documents needed was approximately one million, one hundred thousand.

  102. [102] 
    Michale wrote:

    So it is with torturing a terrorist.. It's a no win situation.. Do you forgo your humanity and get information that will likely save hundreds???

    Or do you maintain your humanity and, as a result, see hundreds die...

    For the record, the decision was not always an easy decision for me... NOW, I am MORE than willing to shoulder the guilt of torture if it saves ONE innocent life...

    ONE time, I made the wrong decision and 20 innocent people paid for that with their lives......

    That set me right for every decision I made after that...

    I have faced my Kobyashi Maru more times than I want to count...

  103. [103] 
    Michale wrote:

    [96]Dumbocrats had access to almost a MILLION documents about Kavanaugh..

    Unfortunately, the number of documents needed was approximately one million, one hundred thousand.

    Was it??

    Do you have ANY facts that says that Dumbocrats will be happy AFTER they have those 100,000 documents??

    No you do not..

    But *I* have FACTS that *PROVE* Dumbocrats will NEVER be satisfied with **ANY** documents..

    The FACT that they opposed the nominee EVEN BEFORE THEY KNEW WHO IT WAS.....

    SO, Democrats can go jump off a balcony...

    Their political machinations are most transparent...

  104. [104] 
    neilm wrote:

    CRS: Wages are A DIRECT FUNCTION OF PRODUCTIVITY, not the other way about, for gawdsake!

    When you're wrong, you are really wrong CRS. This, at best, is half the picture, and only applies in certain circumstances.

    Many years ago I discovered that an "A" computer programmer was 2-3 times as productive as a "B" computer programmer, and at only a 10-20% premium for the most part.

    As I was one of the top officers in the start up I changed the hiring philosophy - to increase productivity, I increased the budget for wages and slowed down increases in headcount. It was very effective - bug counts went down, customer support calls due to bugs went down, and revenues went up. The higher wages led to improved competitive differentiation and drove both productivity and profits (due to a slowdown in hiring in Engineering, QA and Customer Support).

    This wasn't exactly a new discovery - just look at the link between wages and results for soccer teams - books on soccer economics (and I assume other sports) highlight the increased success of teams that pay for the best players.

    You obviously have only a passing clue about economics. Also, watching "The Big Short" doesn't make you an expert on the mechanisms that led to the great recession (you got quite high up your ivory tower about that as well recently).

  105. [105] 
    neilm wrote:

    Yea, sad to hear Season 12 is the last season for TBBT....

    Sheldon turned down a 50 million dollar contract...

    So, I've never seen TBBT, but I work in the tech world where it is revered, and I have a story about him.

    I was casting around for an idea for a marketing program that would get our developer base excited, and somebody suggested we get "Sheldon" to do a short skit for us.

    We contacted his agent, and went back and forth on the gig - "Sheldon" was to knock on the door of an apartment (it seems this is a meme in the show") and say our product name three times.

    This was about 4-5 years ago and word started getting out and the Engineers in the U.S. and Europe started to get very excited and would ask my team about the status.

    We started with a $250K offer, and gradually worked up to $800K (this is for about 5-10 seconds of screen time), but "Sheldon" refused and countered with about $1.5M so I pulled the plug.

  106. [106] 
    neilm wrote:

    Oops - left italics on - should have been stopped at "So"

  107. [107] 
    Michale wrote:

    Neil,

    Yer missing out if you have never watch Big Bang Theory...

    Highly recommended..

    As to your anecdote.. Yea.. Seems as if Jim Parsons is quite the entrepreneur... More power to him..

    On a MUCH SMALLER scale... I was hoping for a BAZINGA in HOME.... :D

    I once tried to do a marketing deal with Walter Koenig.. Traded some emails, but the deal fell thru.. It was nice ta trade the emails, but would have been nicer to meet him in person... :D

    Oops - left italics on - should have been stopped at "So"

    Don'tcha just HATE when that happens.. :D

  108. [108] 
    James T Canuck wrote:

    If the US constitution was the 'Prime Directive' Kirk would have to be Trump, Picard crossed the line one, maybe two times...Kirk, dozens of times. Kirk was a womanizer (The Elaan Of Troyius) an occasional Nazi (Patterns Of Force) he was a schizoid (The Enemy Within) his friends turned on him (Where No Man Has Gone Before) a liar(The Corbomite Maneuver)a hoodlum (A piece of the Action)A marionette (Return to Tomorrow) he wasn't native Indian, but knows one, maybe (The Paradise Syndrome)he meddled in healthcare ( The Mark of Gideon)and had nothing but women on his mind causing him trouble (Turnabout Intruder)…

    ;)

    LL&P

  109. [109] 
    C. R. Stucki wrote:

    neilm

    In the simplest, most basic analysis of economic principles, a persons wages (in the case of an employee) are his share of whatever the venture produces. And how large his share is is determined by the laws of supply and demand for the set of skills/talents he possesses. Or, in the case of an entrepreneur, his 'wages' (income) is the profit generated by the venture, after expenses are covered. You simply cannot argue with the principle that wages/income are a direct function of productivity without sounding foolish.

    I understand where you are coming from and what your problem is. You are thinking/operating in the realm of managment and/or engineering of the details of the operation of the venture/business in question, and your analyses are not without merit, but they are without relevance at the level I'm talking about.

    What you tend to understand and relate to is to the fundamentals of the laws and principles of economics as engineering is to the laws and principles of physics. The most basic and fundamental stuff passes over your head, because it only remotely relates to who you are and what you do.

    But don't let that bug you, you are in the majority in that respect.

  110. [110] 
    Michale wrote:

    If the US constitution was the 'Prime Directive' Kirk would have to be Trump

    I can whole-heartedly endorse that sentiment.. :D

    As to the rest, :D It's funny.. :D

  111. [111] 
    Michale wrote:

    For the record, Kirk was NEVER any of those things.. Well, except for maybe the womanizer.. :D

    He played the roles that circumstances required of him to safe guard his ship and his crew...

    In that, he was much like President Trump... Who also plays roles to safe guard his country and Americans world-wide...

  112. [112] 
    Michale wrote:

    He played the roles that circumstances required of him to safe guard his ship and his crew...

    And the Federation...

  113. [113] 
    Michale wrote:

    You are thinking/operating in the realm of managment and/or engineering of the details of the operation of the venture/business in question,

    THAT clears up a lot of things..

    Us line grunts had a name for those types..

    Back office weenies..

    No offense intended.. :D

  114. [114] 
    Kick wrote:

    Balthasar
    95

    I love it! Great post.

    McCoy would interject: "My god man, why would we even consider a candidate that has already lied to us in his previous confirmation?

    Under penalty of perjury... under oath. Why not commit perjury if there is no penalty?

  115. [115] 
    Kick wrote:

    Michale
    100

    If I punch Victoria in the face because she pisses me off, it's almost assured that I am going to jail...

    Only after your fat ass got out of the hospital. :)

    If President Trump punches Victoria in the face because she pissed him off, he is surely going back to the White House..

    Only after Trump's fat ass got out of the hospital.

    Later, I will testify against Trump in criminal court:

    United States of America

    v.

    Benedict Donald Trump a.k.a. Cadet Bone Spurs
    Five Deferments Got His Fat Orange Ass Kicked

    because no one is above the law.

    If the President commits a crime, there are committees and hearings and MAYBE, in a few years time, if at all, the President may go to jail..

    So you are making his point that no one is above the law. Thank you for that concession. Case closed. :)

  116. [116] 
    Kick wrote:

    neilm
    105

    Great post.

    We Texans certainly know how to drive a hard bargain, and our time is infinitely valuable.

    "Sheldon" was to knock on the door of an apartment (it seems this is a meme in the show") and say our product name three times.

    Was it perchance... Beetlejuice? ;)

  117. [117] 
    James T Canuck wrote:

    Just nosing around and found...

    "Ethan Peck has been cast as Spock -- the half-human, half-Vulcan Science Officer of the U.S.S. Enterprise, and foster brother of Michael Burnham -- in the upcoming second season of Star Trek: Discovery. Peck is the grandson of legendary actor Gregory Peck, who counted among his final projects the 1998 TV miniseries Moby Dick, which starred Patrick Stewart as Captain Ahab, the role Gregory Peck famously played in the 1956 movie of the same name."

    LL&P

  118. [118] 
    Kick wrote:

    Michale
    111

    In that, he was much like President Trump... Who also plays roles to safe guard his country and Americans world-wide...

    And with that nugget, you have let it be known (and it is not retractable) that you have really drunk the Kool-Aid. Man, are you gullible!

    I've got really bad news for you, Michale: What you see is what you get with Benedict Donald. He sold out this country in a quid pro quo. He's not masterminding anything because you can't be a master if you don't have a mind. :)

  119. [119] 
    neilm wrote:

    CRS:

    but they are without relevance at the level I'm talking about.

    Nice attempt to dodge, but you were convinced that wages could only rise if productivity rose. I showed you clearly that the reverse can happen.

    It is called "investment" and it is a fundamental part of economics. Since you live off the government it might be an alien concept to you, but it is a pretty handy one for wealth builders.

  120. [120] 
    James T Canuck wrote:

    It gets worse, people...one glance at this, as a student of history, it left me cold.

    Dressing down generals, lamenting paranoidly "everybody's trying to get me", “Let’s fucking kill him! Let’s go in. Let’s kill the fucking lot of them,” and I have spent 40 years consuming hundreds of books on the Nazi's, and in particularly, Hitler, one quote shook me... Trump refered to his dealings with Jong Un as a contest of "wills"....“This is all about leader versus leader. Man versus man. Me versus Kim.”

    All the bullshit aside, forget the partisan shit. If this book is even just built on innuendo, there's a massive problem we all might wish we didn't have.

    Hitler wasn't eating the carpet like this until 1943m after the battle of Kursk, in 42, Hitler had himself a little break down, emerging in 43 yammering shit like Trump is now.

    I'll concede trump has done great, yeah...all hail trump the great.

    Now, how the fuck do get this guy out of the oval office?

    LL(if we're lucky)&P

  121. [121] 
    neilm wrote:

    Now, how the fuck do get this guy out of the oval office?

    "We're in Crazytown. I don't even know why any of us are here. This is the worst job I've ever had." - John Kelly

    When will the gullible wake up to this con man?

  122. [122] 
    neilm wrote:

    I guess it is OK to call Southerners "dumb" now - as in "this dumb Southerner" since Treasonous Trump calls Beauregard the Third that and nobody in the South seems to object.

  123. [123] 
    neilm wrote:

    Chief of Staff Kelly repeatedly calls Mr Trump an "idiot" and said that "it's pointless to try to convince him of anything". Defense Secretary Mattis told an aide that the president has the foreign policy understanding of a "fifth- or sixth-grader"

    I'm already looking forward to this book.

  124. [124] 
    Balthasar wrote:

    For the record, Kirk was NEVER any of those things.. Well, except for maybe the womanizer.. :D

    He played the roles that circumstances required of him to safe guard his ship and his crew...

    According to A History of Hazard Pay in Starfleet: Mortality rates in TOS vs. TNG, it is more risky to be a member of Kirk's crew than Picard's, particularly is one is a member of the ship's security detail (i.e., a Red shirt).

    They write:

    The total crew deaths among the two series are fairly even (though TNG ran over twice as long), but the relevant disparity comes in examining where the characters died.

    Of the 53 Enterprise personnel to die in TOS, 27 were killed while on away teams. Another four died as a direct result of injury or illness incurred on an away team.

    In TNG, out of 57 total crew deaths, only 14 were killed on away teams. Of those 14, eight were among the teams lost in the firestorms in "Lessons," leaving only six others: Tasha Yar, Marla Aster, two goldshirts in "Descent," a goldshirt in "Gambit," and Sito Jaxa (who wasn't really on an away team, just a mission).

    One might conclude that Riker led much safer away missions than Kirk did. While this is certainly true from a fatality perspective, it's also worth pointing out that Riker rarely even brought goldshirt* officers with him; he invariably chose the senior staff. Needless to say, if you're a lower-decker, you're safer on a planet with Riker than you are on the Enterprise-D, but even then you're better off there than you'd be on a planet with Kirk.

    *Don't let this confuse you. In TNG, the crew colors were reversed: security wore gold, officers wore red.

    The inevitable conclusion is that Picard's diplomatic and even nature made life aboard the Enterprise D far safer than it was for the crew serving under J.T. "shoot first, ask questions later" Kirk. ;)

  125. [125] 
    C. R. Stucki wrote:

    neilm Your [119]

    You are once again (as ever) confusing money with real wealth (goods and services). It's kinda axiomatic that we can only consume as much as we produce. When you say wages can go up without an increase in productivity, you're basically saying that we can somehow consume more without producing more.

    So where is the "more" gonna come from? The tooth fairy, the Easter bunny, or Santa Claus?

  126. [126] 
    neilm wrote:

    CRS [125] Complete blather to try to hide your ignorance.

    Noted.

    If you ever get to be a wealth producer you'll understand the realities of the marketplace rather than the Economics 101 class you took 50-60 years ago.

  127. [127] 
    ListenWhenYouHear wrote:

    neilm,

    I guess it is OK to call Southerners "dumb" now - as in "this dumb Southerner" since Treasonous Trump calls Beauregard the Third that and nobody in the South seems to object.

    As someone from Georgia and LA (lower Alabama), I promise you that this is the most damaging thing that could come out of this new book on Trump’s presidency. Tapes could be released with Trump whimpering to Putin promising to do whatever Russia wants, and Southern Trump supporters would have made excuses for him — but non-Southerners calling Southerners “dumb” because of the way we talk....

    OH HELLLLLLLL NO!

    THAT will never be acceptable!!! Trump might have found the one way to snap awake those that have been under his spell!

  128. [128] 
    Kick wrote:

    LWYH/Russ
    127

    Tapes could be released with Trump whimpering to Putin promising to do whatever Russia wants, and Southern Trump supporters would have made excuses for him — but non-Southerners calling Southerners “dumb” because of the way we talk....

    OH HELLLLLLLL NO!

    I know, right?! Pity that! ;)

    ^ *thick Southern drawl* ^

  129. [129] 
    Michale wrote:

    The inevitable conclusion is that Picard's diplomatic and even nature made life aboard the Enterprise D far safer than it was for the crew serving under J.T. "shoot first, ask questions later" Kirk. ;)

    Which simply shows the agenda of the writers of TNG vs the writers of TOS.. :D

    TV GUIDE did a poll about PICARD vs KIRK..

    Readers overwhelmingly chose KIRK if the mission required guts and nerves of steel and integrity.. They wanted PICARD if the mission was namby pamby talking things to death without really accomplishing anything.. :D

    So, take the spin that helps you better sleep at night.

    :D

    *Don't let this confuse you. In TNG, the crew colors were reversed: security wore gold, officers wore red.

    "Wait a minute.. Aren't you two wearing the wrong colors??"
    "Don't you know ANYTHING about history!??"
    "I'm a doctor, not a historian."
    "In this time period, command officers wore gold and support services wore red."
    "And women wore less.."
    "I think I'm going to like history."

    -STAR TREK: DEEP SPACE NINE, Trials & Tribulations

    :D

  130. [130] 
    Michale wrote:

    "Ethan Peck has been cast as Spock -- the half-human, half-Vulcan Science Officer of the U.S.S. Enterprise, and foster brother of Michael Burnham -- in the upcoming second season of Star Trek: Discovery. Peck is the grandson of legendary actor Gregory Peck, who counted among his final projects the 1998 TV miniseries Moby Dick, which starred Patrick Stewart as Captain Ahab, the role Gregory Peck famously played in the 1956 movie of the same name."

    I had read that.. Personally, I love Zachery Quinto's Spock.. He nails Leonard Nimoy as Spock perfectly..

    And the Spock tribute that they did in STAR TREK BEYOND was perfection...

    As much as despise STAR TREK 90210, they make some great movies.. It's just not Trek...

    REAL Star Trek would never kill 6 billion Vulcans just for cheap voova...

  131. [131] 
    Michale wrote:

    According to A History of Hazard Pay in Starfleet: Mortality rates in TOS vs. TNG, it is more risky to be a member of Kirk's crew than Picard's, particularly is one is a member of the ship's security detail (i.e., a Red shirt).

    Yea, but the way they killed of Tasha Yar negates ANY credit they may deserve... :^/

    That deserves THE MOST POINTLESS DEATH IN THE HISTORY OF SCI-FI DEATHS award...

    And it happened on Picard's watch...

  132. [132] 
    Michale wrote:

    But it's awesome how you can make Star Trek into a political fight..

    I am sure it's appreciated by all.. :D

  133. [133] 
    C. R. Stucki wrote:

    neilm

    Yeah, speaking of blather, I loved your story about how you discovered that you could increase productivity by hiring competent people to replace the incompetent people you had previously hired.

    Did that win you 'Mgr of the Yr' award, or did it occur to your bosses that you were incompetent for hiring the incompetent people in the first place?

  134. [134] 
    Michale wrote:

    Heh.... :D

    But this begs the question..

    Don't those incompetent workers deserve a "living" wage??

    What kind of heartless soulless employer would get rid of incompetent people who just wanted money but didn't want to actually WORK for it!!???

    Ah yes.. An employer who runs a successful business... :D

  135. [135] 
    Michale wrote:

    The self-styled Saviors of the Country need to step forward, identify themselves, and speak plainly, honestly, and loudly about the menace in the White House.
    http://theweek.com/articles/765667/reveal-yourselves-trump-administration-resisters

    Yes.. By all means..

    ALL American Traitors need to self-identify so they can be purged and exposed for the gutless cowards that they are...

  136. [136] 
    Michale wrote:

    Woops...

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