Thanksgiving Discussion Topic Suggestion
A key question now worth contemplating -- right before everyone goes home for Thanksgiving (and the inevitable family political squabbles) -- is how many of the promises Donald Trump made to his supporters can he break before they'll abandon him? Because so far, Trump has been doing some pretty serious backpedaling on some of his core applause lines, as he prepares to shift from campaigning to actually governing. Will his fans accept these broken promises, because they actually liked Trump's style more than they believed all his grand assertions, or did they take them all seriously and now are beginning to feel betrayed that they're not actually going to happen? This could be a crucial question, going forward, when assessing Trump's political capital and the effectiveness of his presidency.
Today's big news is that Trump apparently was just kidding about all that "Lock her up!" stuff out on the campaign trail. He's not going to sic his Justice Department on Clinton after all, it seems. Kellyanne Conway explained Trump's new position with a statement that might just send chills through Trump supporters everywhere:
I think when the President-elect, who's also the head of your party, tells you before he's even inaugurated that he doesn't wish to pursue these charges [against Clinton], it sends a very strong message, tone, and content. ... I think he's thinking of many different things as he prepares to become the president of the United States, and things that sound like the campaign are not among them.
For: "things that sound like the campaign" read: "all those applause lines where Trump made sweeping promises to his supporters, such as 'lock her up.'" This isn't the only big issue Trump's been recently disavowing, either, since he got elected. The big, beautiful border wall somehow became just a fence (in some places), and Trump's not guaranteeing Mexico's going to pay for it anymore (or, at least, he's lately been silent about this big promise). In another stunning about-face, Trump has actually been praising major portions of Obamacare, and saying a large part of it may not have to be scrapped. He's even sounding more reasonable on climate change these days, a big shift from: "it's all a Chinese hoax." Now he seems to be rethinking his stance on backing out of the Paris accords. Oh, and he talked to a Marine officer who told him torture doesn't work, so he's rethinking his support for waterboarding as well.
That seems to be a lot for Trump supporters to swallow, especially seeing as how he's not even in office yet. Breitbart just ran an article (I refuse to link to them, so do your own search to find it) with a headline that prominently featured the phrase: "Broken Promise," on the Clinton story alone, and the comments seem to be mixed. There are some who are outraged and feel betrayed already, and there are others insisting that Trump is merely doing a head-fake because if President Obama knew he was indeed going to go after Clinton, then he'd just pardon her right before he left office. If Obama thinks Trump won't go there, then he wouldn't pardon her. So even among Breitbart commenters, the reaction is so far pretty varied.
One thing is becoming pretty clear, and that is Trump supporters are likely to give him enormous latitude when it comes to his business dealings and possible conflicts of interest. The Trump Foundation taxes for 2015 were just released and showed that the foundation confessed to "self-dealing" after all those Washington Post stories laid bare how Trump used his own foundation's money in illegal ways. Plus, there are huge questions about whether a "blind trust" really means "turn it over to my children, who will also be my close advisors as president." But my guess is that Trump's supporters won't really mind any of it. After all, part of his appeal is his supposed business genius, so his supporters will likely brush all this aside as no more than sour grapes from Washington insiders and the lefty media. As Trump rightfully pointed out, there simply are no conflict of interest laws that apply to presidents. Presidents, members of Congress, and judges are all mystifyingly left out of the federal laws which ban conflicts of interest for all other federal employees. So Trump can continue to claim "all laws will be followed," and then do whatever he wants with his business dealings (such as Trump hotels encouraging foreign diplomats to stay there, which has already happened).
Making a fast buck is one thing, though, and disappointing your supporters on key campaign promises is another. Now, to be fair, Donald Trump is nobody's paragon of consistency. He flip-flopped on an almost weekly basis during the campaign, on any number of issues. His supporters didn't seem to mind all that much, so perhaps they'll take all of Trump's recent backpedaling in stride. He's still promising to make good on a number of things from the campaign, including dumping the Trans-Pacific Partnership deal on his first day in office. The promises he keeps may prove to be more important to his voters than the promises he jettisons. At this point, it's impossible to tell.
Trump's fluidity on positions could work another way as well, it's worth pointing out. Trump pays very close attention to the media, so if reports start coming from righty sites that he's losing support among his base because they feel betrayed, then he might just flip-flop right back to his original position, and then blame the whole thing on the biased media misinterpreting his real thoughts on the matter. He's a master at doing so, as evidenced by how many times he pulled this trick off during the campaign. So if any one of his new positions annoys his supporters too much, he can always later claim, "that's not true, I do still support my campaign position." It's worked before, so Trump may have this built-in "out" for anything that causes too harsh a reaction on right-wing news sites.
There's another facet to all of this as well. For every blustery extreme promise he made on the campaign trail that he's now walking away from, Trump could actually pick up some public support. "He's not so bad -- he just said all that crazy stuff to get elected," might run through the minds of people (especially Republicans) who refused to vote for Trump. They may see it as being reasonable and presidential, and be more inclined to give Trump the benefit of the doubt, for now.
It's still early days, so it's impossible to see how all these reversals by Trump will play out. But it's also an interesting topic of conversation for Thanksgiving family get-togethers. After your uncle (or aunt, or sister, or whomever) gleefully gloats for a while over Trump's victory (liberals are going to have to eat some crow with their turkey, in other words), take the initiative and see if they're open to a reasonable conversation about their support for him. "What promises he made during the campaign would be deal-breakers for your support if he goes back on them?" is an excellent question worth asking over the holidays, in other words. What would cause Trump supporters to abandon him? What would be unacceptable? What could be dismissed as: "Oh, he was just saying that stuff to get elected"? The answers to those questions might be the best early indicators of how successful Trump's presidency is going to be seen by those who supported him. So it's certainly worth asking, during the holiday weekend.
-- Chris Weigant
Follow Chris on Twitter: @ChrisWeigant
LizM -
This one's for you, but it's also for everyone else, as a topic for liberals to discuss among themselves this holiday weekend. And yes, I am aware that Canucks celebrate Thanksgiving on another day, but you'll see why this is directed towards you just by reading the headline and seeing the accompanying photo.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/the-best-choice-for-the-next-dnc-leader-is-right-under-our-noses/2016/11/22/3d78e42e-b008-11e6-8616-52b15787add0_story.html
This is one of those brilliant ideas that I truly wish I had had. Seriously, it makes ALL KINDS of sense! I urge everyone to check it out -- again, you don't even need to read the story, just the headline and the photo is enough...
:-)
"discuss among yourselves" as the Coffee Talk lady says....
-CW
Chris,
Thanks for that! I've been staying away from the news this last little while as much as possible and I had not seen this or heard of it.
For me, Biden's name has always gone hand in hand with foreign policy and, under conditions we might call normal I doubt that his name would ever have been thought of for this position.
I don't think Biden is the kind of guy who would relish getting into the nitty gritty of partisan politics. But, given everything that has happened of late, I can imagine that even he might seriously consider this position and he may even change the nature of the job.
One thing is for sure - it would mean I would still be able to hear his views on a consistent basis and even have the pleasure of his contributions on the Sunday morning shows again. :)
LizM -
He seems to me to be the right pick to reach out to disaffected blue collar workers. Which is exactly what the Dems need right now. Don't konw how he'd do the fundraising part of the job (which is usually all anyone cares about for national committee chairs of either party). But he certainly deserves serious consideration, if he'd even be open to doing the job.
Like I said, you don't even need to read the article. When you see the photo, the entire concept makes perfect sense!
:-)
-CW
Like I said, you don't even need to read the article. When you see the photo, the entire concept makes perfect sense!
You wouldn't be trying to make a wise crack about my guy, would you!?
No, I didn't think so ... :)
One of the Democrats' biggest problems is they think they are not reaching out enough to disaffected blue collar workers.
They have learned nothing in the wake of this election if they think they can keep trying to reach out to one group or another - they need to find a unifying American message that speaks to everyone. Am I right or am I right? Heh.
Lemme ask ya'all a question...
How do ya'all feel about the back-pedaling from the Left??
Obama said so many things bad about Trump. Basically said that if Trump were elected, it would be the end of the world.. Yet, now Obama is praising Trump and urging all Americans to get behind Trump as President..
How do ya'all feel about THAT back-pedaling??
Now, to address the questions..
How do I feel about prosecuting Hillary?? I am all for that broken promise... Not solely for altruistic reasons, mind you... But enough blood has been shed.. It's time to heal...
Campaign hyperbole is just that.. Hyperbole DURING a campaign... Hillary did it. Obama did it. EVERY candidate does it... The essence of the man hasn't changed..
Having said that, I can say that I *AM* disappointed about Trump's apparent Global Warming change.. I am HOPEFUL that he is simply being misquoted or the NYT just heard what they wanted to hear... I don't mind if a person claims that they believe that humans MAY have a slight effect on the planet's climate. I personally don't believe it, but it's a nuanced enough answer to show the person is not totally taken in by the con...
But, as with everything, Trump can SAY all sorts of things and they really won't mean much to me...
What he DOES is what is important...
Anyone ever read the novel THE JESUS FACTOR?? Not to be confused with a Jesus Clip... :D
That certainly has relevance here.... The novel, not the clip...
Liz,
One of the Democrats' biggest problems is they think they are not reaching out enough to disaffected blue collar workers.
I don't think the problem is what the Democrats think or don't think..
The problem is that they AREN'T reaching out to disaffected blue collar workers..
Those tens of millions of workers voted for Obama because Obama gave them hope that things will change..
They went for Trump for the exact same reason...
They have learned nothing in the wake of this election if they think they can keep trying to reach out to one group or another - they need to find a unifying American message that speaks to everyone. Am I right or am I right? Heh.
Yer right.. :D
To date, Democrats only message has been to pit one group of Americans against another...
Democrats told black Americans and brown Americans that their lot in life was the fault of white Americans...
Democrats told Democrat Americans that their lot in life was the fault of of Republican Americans...
Trump told ALL Americans that their lot in life was the fault of illegal immigrants, criminals, yada yada yada...
Trump HAD the unifying message and that is why he won...
You are dead on ballz accurate, Liz.. Democrats DO need to come up with a unifying message that talks to ALL Americans...
Identity politics simply DOES NOT WORK...
I really can't see Biden accepting the DNC chair position...
It would be like Obama accepting a manager position at McDonalds...
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/the-best-choice-for-the-next-dnc-leader-is-right-under-our-noses/2016/11/22/3d78e42e-b008-11e6-8616-52b15787add0_story.html
And in the general election, well — she actually won the general election when it comes to actual votes. So as far as the actual voters are concerned, a narrow but clear plurality voted for Clinton’s continuity over Donald Trump’s change.
I swear, if I hear anything more about the "popular vote" I am going to lose it!!
The PV doesn't mean squat because candidates didn't CAMPAIGN for the popular vote.. A campaign for the PV would look totally and completely different...
One can argue that the Cubs didn't win the World Series, that it was really a tie...
THAT argument has as much validity as the "POPULAR VOTE HAS RELEVANCE" argument...
I am HOPEFUL that he is simply being misquoted or the NYT just heard what they wanted to hear...
The media spin on President Elect Donald J. Trump’s sit down with the New York Times on November 22, can only be described as dishonest. Trump appears to soften stance on climate change & Donald Trump backflips on climate change …
The ‘fake news’ that Trump had somehow moderated or changed his “global warming” views was not supported by the full transcript of the meeting.
http://www.climatedepot.com/2016/11/23/fake-news-update-media-falsely-spins-trumps-climate-comments-read-full-nyt-transcript/
Aha!!!
What's ya'all's thoughts for Romney as SecState???
Rudy would be infinitely more fun.
Soaring Consumer Confidence: Are Americans Happy It's Trump, or Just Happy It's Over?
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-11-23/soaring-consumer-confidence-are-americans-happy-it-s-trump-or-just-happy-it-s-over
"Where's an apocalypse when ya need one??"
-The Left Wingery
:D
Rudy would be infinitely more fun.
Troo dat.... :D
I have always thought of Romney as kinda a wet blanket..
I definitely want Rudy for SecState...
It appears the General Mattis is a shoe-in for SecDef...
Nice.....
Re Thanksgiving Conversations:
If you have to say anything, prepare for the future. Ask what the three most important reasons somebody voted for Trump and how they intend to hold him to those. If they can't list three and dodge listing metrics, then you know they are either weak minded or just a fanboy.
What's ya'all's thoughts for Romney as SecState???
Good idea.
Given that Trump is calling for NASA to stop researching the climate, I'd put the NY Times article as Trump waffling and the NYT hearing what they wanted.
But we will see. Trump knows full well that climate change is happening and has real life impacts (e.g. building a wall to protect one of his golf courses https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/nov/17/donald-trump-ireland-golf-resort-wall-climate-change).
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/nov/17/donald-trump-ireland-golf-resort-wall-climate-change
But we will see. Trump knows full well that climate change is happening and has real life impacts (e.g. building a wall to protect one of his golf courses
Once again, like with illegal immigration, ya are changing the argument to make your argument seem valid..
NO ONE is denying that climate change is happening.. The climate has always changed. The climate will continue to change with or without human's influence..
The idea that humans can actually CHANGE the climate of the planet??
That's ridiculous...
That's like saying that humans can control the orbit of the planet...
Given that Trump is calling for NASA to stop researching the climate, I'd put the NY Times article as Trump waffling and the NYT hearing what they wanted.
That's apparently exactly what happened, according to the actual transcript...
My faith in Trump is well-placed.. :D
If you have to say anything, prepare for the future. Ask what the three most important reasons somebody voted for Trump and how they intend to hold him to those. If they can't list three and dodge listing metrics, then you know they are either weak minded or just a fanboy.
Or politics are just not that big a part of their lives and they just go with their gut...
"We can't discard a possibility, just because we don't happen to like it."
-Martin Sheen, FINAL COUNTDOWN
:D
Besides, ALL of Trump supporters are "weak-minded", right?? They would HAVE to be to even VOTE for Trump, right??
:D
Given that Trump is calling for NASA to stop researching the climate,
Having NASA research planetary climate is as utterly ridiculous as having the Center for DISEASE Control research gun deaths or auto accidents...
[10]
Michale -
What's ya'all's thoughts for Romney as SecState???
Rudy would definitely be far more fun!
I like the idea of Biden in the DNC Chair.
Joe Biden...
* would be full time, not part-time casual
* has a wealth of experience far beyond any of the other candidates
* has a deep knowledge of positions at state level and all three branches at federal level
* is extremely likeable, very trustworthy and has very high approval ratings
* has the common touch which is an essential (yet all too often neglected) quality in a position such as this
* is smart
* is eloquent
* is honest
I'm sure there's many more qualities that deserve to be on this list but these were the ones from the top of my head.