ChrisWeigant.com

Competing Perceptions Of The Republican Race

[ Posted Monday, April 11th, 2016 – 17:17 UTC ]

The Republican Party seems to be in the midst of a period of soul-searching, heading into the remainder of the primary season. The viewpoints within the party are all over the map, and even the perception of how the 2016 presidential race is going to play out can be vastly different from Republican to Republican. How it all turns out is anyone's guess at this point, but at least one Republican faction will be able to say "we told you so" at the end of the process. The questions are who is going to be right, and what it will mean for the party going forward.

Those outside the party perceive the situation slightly differently, of course. Democrats can barely contain their glee over the prospect of running against either Donald Trump or Ted Cruz, since they see both as easily-defeatable candidates who may actually allow them to win back control of the Senate -- and perhaps even the House. Any other choice of GOP candidate would have meant a very hard fight just for the Senate and would have put the House control completely out of the question, as most Democrats see it. Either Cruz or Trump will be far easier to run against than many of the other possible 2016 Republican candidates, so Democrats really see a win-win situation at this point, no matter which Republican wins in Cleveland.

The media, of course, just love all the infighting. Conflict sells, and this conflicted race been a doozy so far for ratings. Pundits are now excitably plotting out how an "open convention" is going to happen, which has long been the dream of most political journalists. Open conventions don't just mean conflict and drama, they mean conflict and drama right up to the very end, on the floor of the convention. Made for TV! If Donald Trump does somehow wrap up the necessary delegates before the convention begins, listen for the bitter sounds of disappointment from cable television commentators, as their open convention dreams are crushed.

But media types and Democrats aren't really the ones with the best interests of the Republican Party in mind. What's interesting is the wide range of attitudes coming from Republicans themselves as to the likely outcome of the presidential race and what it could mean for their party. There are some Republicans predicting doomsday for pretty much all of the likely scenarios, in fact. Now, as a note of caution, all of them could be proven wrong to some degree or another. Republicans could win the White House with either Donald Trump or Ted Cruz. Please remember that this presidential contest has already defied all the rules of conventional political wisdom, so literally anything could happen.

Still, the levels of panic emanating from some factions within the Republican Party are pretty notable. The first ones to panic were the establishment Republicans. They've been panicking pretty much non-stop since they first realized that Donald Trump was not, in fact, the joke that they thought he was going to be. Establishment Republicans are walking around in their own personal nightmare these days, as they contemplate the fact that their only two viable remaining choices are Donald Trump and Ted Cruz. Either, as they see it, is going to prove devastating to the Republican Party this November. Both Trump and Cruz (for slightly different reasons) are going to cause massive losses in down-ballot races, pretty much across the board. Republicans rely on demographics like suburban women to win general elections, and if they defect en masse then losing the Senate is almost a certainty. Trump, for fairly obvious reasons, would drive away moderate voters who usually lean Republican -- but then so would Cruz for being so ultra-conservative and uncompromising. The most memorable summation of this way of thinking came from Lindsey Graham, after dropping out and considering the Trump/Cruz choice which remained: "Whether it's death by being shot or being poisoned, does it really matter?" Graham eventually chose the poison, and endorsed Cruz.

It's extraordinary that so many Republicans look at the two frontrunners in their presidential race and foresee nothing but a massive defeat in the fall. This sort of defeatism is usually the province of Democrats, in fact, at least in years gone by. The Machiavellian answer to the choice between Trump and Cruz is to deny both of them the nomination at the convention and pick some white knight to ride in and save the party from itself (Paul Ryan, assumably). This, however, comes with its own risks -- risks that those advocating for such a solution now barely even acknowledge. The biggest danger is a third-party bid by either Trump, Cruz, or both. If the national convention ignores the will of roughly three-fourths of Republican primary voters by choosing someone like Ryan, there are going to be millions of very dissatisfied primary voters (and that's putting it mildly). Both Trump and Cruz campaign against their own party's leadership (in slightly different ways), so their voters are already wary of the party bigwigs. If the convention "steals the nomination" from Trump and Cruz, it's going to be very hard to get those millions of voters back into the Republican fold in time for the general election. Ironically, instead of Ryan being a consensus candidate, he might wind up being the most divisive to the party's base, because both Trump and Cruz voters would be so outraged by the choice.

The Trump voters and the Cruz voters see the party's chances in November differently, of course. The basic argument from the Trump camp is that Trump is drawing in millions of new voters -- people who were so disillusioned with the political process that they normally don't bother to vote at all. These voters are not standard Republican base voters -- they're independents, and even ex-Democrats. The way to win in November is to give millions of these disaffected voters a reason to turn up at the polls, and the wave of new voters will swamp Hillary Clinton or Bernie Sanders, especially in Rust Belt states like Michigan and Ohio. This argument does have some merit -- Trump has indeed been pulling in new voters, although the extent of this phenomenon is impossible to accurately know everywhere. He's also right that if the industrial Midwest is in play (instead of being solidly in the Democratic column), the road to victory in the Electoral College gets a lot harder for Democrats.

The Cruz camp makes a different argument -- a more traditional one within Republican Party ranks. Their argument is one of purity, plain and simple. The Republican Party (this way of thinking goes) loses presidential elections when it puts up moderates and others who aren't "true" conservatives. When they put up unapologetic fire-breathing conservatives, they win. So rather than undermining the party's chances by running people like John McCain or Mitt Romney or Bob Dole, nominate a dyed-in-the-wool conservative to improve the chances of victory in the fall. Rather than pulling in disaffected moderate voters (as Trump brags he's doing), a real conservative will reignite a fire under disaffected conservative voters, which will propel them to victory. This argument usually points to all the evangelical and socially-conservative voting blocs who didn't turn out for Romney and McCain as evidence that there are indeed enough of these voters to win in November.

Trump's supporters are arguing for something fresh and new to bring in voters that the pollsters don't even currently see. Cruz supporters argue that a pure conservative candidate will reinvigorate the Republican electorate in ways not seen since Ronald Reagan. The establishment Republicans worry that both of these arguments are wrong (if not downright fantasy), and that the only way they've got a prayer is to get someone like Ryan onto the ticket who can still be competitive in all those suburban districts out there. Or, at the very least, someone who can contain the damage in the down-ballot races.

It will be impossible to tell which one of these arguments is the most correct, because Republicans can only nominate one candidate. So two out of three of these scenarios will not even occur this year. The arguments may remain, though -- the "run a true conservative" argument has actually been around for a long time in the GOP. There are six possible outcomes, and only one will wind up happening, so the lessons drawn from the aftermath will be confined to whose argument was actually tested.

If Trump is the nominee and he wins the presidency, the "make the tent bigger" argument will be proven correct. If Trump loses the general, then "he was too extreme" will have been the right way of seeing things all along. If Cruz becomes the Republican nominee and wins the White House, then the Republican Party as a whole is going to take a very serious turn to the right. Purity will rule the day, and any hint of moderation will lead to condemnation (and primary challenges). If Cruz loses to a Democrat, then it may actually bury the "let's run a true conservative" argument for a generation's time, at least. If Ryan runs and nobody gets behind him (either a third party undermines his support, or even just a whole lot of Republican voters stay home and don't vote in November), then we may have an even more vicious fight for who sets the direction of the party the next time around. If Ryan does manage to win in November, then the Republican Party might have a golden opportunity to quash the influence of the Tea Party and all the other purists within their ranks.

No matter what happens, though, there will likely be a continuation of the soul-searching the party is currently engaged in. There are at least three major factions right now, all of whom are convinced that their way of looking at things is right and that everyone else in the party is wrong. Only one of these will even get the chance to prove their theory. No matter who gets the nomination in the end, it may do nothing to unite the party. This means that even beyond the 2016 election, there is most likely going to be a continuing struggle over which direction the party should be heading towards. No matter what happens in the presidential race, it's going to be difficult to reconcile the various perceptions within the Republican ranks -- and it's going to be especially difficult if the Democrat wins in November.

-- Chris Weigant

 

Cross-posted at The Huffington Post

Follow Chris on Twitter: @ChrisWeigant

 

64 Comments on “Competing Perceptions Of The Republican Race”

  1. [1] 
    Paula wrote:

    Chris: Gonna be interesting.

  2. [2] 
    Michale wrote:

    There are at least three major factions right now, all of whom are convinced that their way of looking at things is right and that everyone else in the party is wrong.

    Sounds kinda uh... bigoted.. :D

    Seriously though... Establishment Republicans just HAVE to know that if they don't give Trump the nomination that he has EARMED, there is simply NO PATH to victory..

    Even with the Hillary indictment..

    Michale

  3. [3] 
    Elizabeth Miller wrote:

    Hillary was indicted?

  4. [4] 
    Michale wrote:

    Seriously though... Establishment Republicans just HAVE to know that if they don't give Trump the nomination that he has EARMED

    EARMED??? WTF!? :D

    Michale

  5. [5] 
    Michale wrote:

    Hillary was indicted?

    Not yet.. 21 +/- more days.. :D

    And it's going to be a wild ride!!! :D

    Michale

  6. [6] 
    Michale wrote:

    http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2016/04/colorado-gop-leader-disgruntled/

    WOW...

    These guys shouldn't hold it all in. They should tell us how they REALLY feel! :D

    Michale

  7. [7] 
    Michale wrote:

    Liz,

    Hillary was indicted?

    Just imagine what it's going to be like when Director Comey takes to the podium at a press conference and announces that he has forwarded a recommendation of indictment to the DOJ against Hillary and/or senior staff...

    Just imagine how the Democrat Party's world will come crashing down.. It's going to make what's going on with the Republican Party look like nothing..

    Of course, there will be those on the Left who will scream, "IT'S ALL POLITICS!!!"..

    But wait.. We have Obama explicitly STATING for the record that there is absolutely NO POLITICS in play over this issue...

    And those Left Wingers will have painted themselves in a corner because they have ALSO stated for the record that Obama doesn't lie....

    This is truly going to be a May to remember... If we're lucky, it will happen on May 4th... :D

    Michale

  8. [8] 
    Michale wrote:

    As far as the GOP primary goes..

    If Cruz had ANY smarts at all, he would relinquish the Colorado Delegates and tell the State GOP Party to have a REAL caucus...

    But, of course, Cruz doesn't HAVE any smarts..

    All he has is ego...

    Michale

  9. [9] 
    nypoet22 wrote:

    "The other thing with the terrorists is you have to take out their families, when you get these terrorists, you have to take out their families. They care about their lives, don't kid yourself. When they say they don't care about their lives, you have to take out their families"

    someone said something about gestapo tactics?

  10. [10] 
    Elizabeth Miller wrote:

    Michale,

    I notice that you take great pleasure in other peoples' misfortune and displeasure.

  11. [11] 
    Michale wrote:

    I notice that you take great pleasure in other peoples' misfortune and displeasure.

    Au contraire... I am the most compassionate guy you would ever hope to meet..

    But I am ALSO a guy who cares about justice and gleefully celebrates when crooks and scumbags get what they deserve...

    Make no mistake.. There is no "misfortune" when it comes to Hillary Clinton..

    She made a conscious decision to break the law and do something that indicates an appalling lack of judgement..

    sans humanite'

    I am trying to find the Romulan translation, but the latin will serve for now...

    Michale

  12. [12] 
    Michale wrote:

    Where's ya'all's compassion for the likes of Monica Lewinsky, Juanita Broadderick and all the other women that were Bill Clinton's sexual assault victims and then victimized again by Hillary Clinton???

    Let's talk about THAT (lack of) compassion, eh?? :D

    Michale

  13. [13] 
    Elizabeth Miller wrote:

    Make no mistake.. There is no "misfortune" when it comes to Hillary Clinton..

    Of course, I wasn't talking about Hillary. :)

  14. [14] 
    neilm wrote:

    If Cruz had ANY smarts at all, he would relinquish the Colorado Delegates and tell the State GOP Party to have a REAL caucus...

    But, of course, Cruz doesn't HAVE any smarts..

    Cruz has the smarts to outmaneuver Trump in the CO process. I told you Cruz is evil.

    I would honestly prefer a President Trump over a President Cruz - even though I fully expect a President Clinton.

    The real question is: how many more byzantine delegate selection processes are there?

    For example, Iowa has still not chosen their complete roster of delegates. Iowa! (See below the line.)

    All we hear from Trump is that he is such a great businessman. How do you reconcile that with losing all the CO delegates?

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Source: http://www.thegreenpapers.com/P16/IA-R#0409

    Saturday 9 April 2016: Republican Party District Conventions convene in each congressional district to choose the state's district delegates to the Republican National Convention according to the results of the Precinct Caucuses. Each of Iowa's 4 congressional districts is assigned 3 National Convention delegates.

    Saturday 21 May 2016: The Iowa State Republican Convention officially convenes. 15 of 30 National Convention delegates are selected according to the results of the Precinct Caucuses.

    The State Convention as a whole chooses Iowa's statewide delegates (10 base at-large delegates plus 5 bonus delegates) to the Republican National Convention.
    In addition, 3 party leaders, the National Committeeman, the National Committeewoman, and the chairman of the Iowa's Republican Party, will attend the convention as pledged delegates by virtue of their position.

  15. [15] 
    neilm wrote:

    "The other thing with the terrorists is you have to take out their families, when you get these terrorists, you have to take out their families. They care about their lives, don't kid yourself. When they say they don't care about their lives, you have to take out their families"

    The San Bernardino terrorists left behind a baby. Does Trump want to kill babies?

  16. [16] 
    Michale wrote:

    Liz,

    Of course, I wasn't talking about Hillary. :)

    Oh... Then who were you talking about??

    Because she's the only one I can think of who I revel in their "misfortune".. :D

    Neil,

    All we hear from Trump is that he is such a great businessman. How do you reconcile that with losing all the CO delegates?

    Because that's not business. That's politics..

    :D

    Michale

  17. [17] 
    Michale wrote:

    Neil,

    I would honestly prefer a President Trump over a President Cruz - even though I fully expect a President Clinton.

    I wouldn't be too sure about that...

    http://media2.s-nbcnews.com/j/newscms/2016_15/1491896/if_these_were_the_candidates_in_november_would_you_chartbuilder_2_8a0f19b81397ce6c7dd8faa12ffaf2d5.nbcnews-ux-600-480.png

    And THAT poll doesn't even take into account the Clinton/staff indictment...

    Imagine what the polls will look like when Clinton and/or staff is under indictment...

    Michale

  18. [18] 
    Michale wrote:

    http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2016/04/11/gregg-jarrett-attorneys-five-takeaways-from-obamas-defense-clintons-emails.html?intcmp=hphz03

    And there are STILL people out there who think Hillary is innocent of any crime..

    "Fascinating"
    -Spock

    :D

    Michale

  19. [19] 
    Elizabeth Miller wrote:

    With specific regard to the perceptions of the Republican race, I would suggest that the most impressive republican of the 2016 race for the White House is none other than Governor John Kasich.

    His speech today in New York was a breath of fresh air and it would be a great thing for America and for the rest of us out in the world if Kasich could manage to win the Republican nomination. Because, that is the only outcome that would, at the very least, ensure that there will be a real and substantial debate on the critical challenges facing the country and on what solutions will work best.

  20. [20] 
    neilm wrote:

    And there are STILL people out there who think Hillary is innocent of any crime..

    C'mon Michale - you know that Fox News is going to be completely biased on this. They use 'revelations about Hillary' as a teaser to keep desperate viewers on the hook through the commercial breaks.

  21. [21] 
    Michale wrote:

    Liz,

    And the fact that Kasich has absolutely NO CHANCE of beating Hillary, even when she is indicted, has nothing to do with it, right?? :D

    Just kidding you. :D I know you are 1000% sincere in your desire to have what you view as a real and substantial debate...

    Many of us Americans prefer a President who can actually get things done and make Americans lives better, regardless of their political/ideological affiliation...

    The only one who has a chance of doing that is Donald Trump...

    Michale

  22. [22] 
    Elizabeth Miller wrote:

    And the fact that Kasich has absolutely NO CHANCE of beating Hillary, even when she is indicted, has nothing to do with it, right?? :D

    Actually, I would like to see a Republican in the White House AND a Republican congress. Because, I'd like to see how they govern. I think John Kasich is the best - scratch that, the ONLY - candidate in this election cycle for that experiment.

  23. [23] 
    Elizabeth Miller wrote:

    By the way, Kasich has actually got things done, you know.

  24. [24] 
    Michale wrote:

    Actually, I would like to see a Republican in the White House AND a Republican congress. Because, I'd like to see how they govern.

    Yea, I tried the same experiment when I voted for Obama in 2008...

    Didn't work out so well... :^./

    Michale

  25. [25] 
    Elizabeth Miller wrote:

    He says he's made the lives of Ohioans better. Why wouldn't he be able to do the same for the rest of the American people?

  26. [26] 
    Elizabeth Miller wrote:

    Well, why not give the experiment a go with Republicans?

  27. [27] 
    Elizabeth Miller wrote:

    And, Michale, your experiment with Democrats wasn't exactly a fair test since for all of the time that there was unified government, there was a huge financial crisis to contain.

    Not saying that there won't be another such crisis that puts a fly in the ointment this time around. Still, I'd like to see how a Republican like Governor Kasich would act and lead as POTUS.

  28. [28] 
    Michale wrote:

    He says he's made the lives of Ohioans better.

    What do Ohioans say??

    David???? :D

    Well, why not give the experiment a go with Republicans?

    Nope.. I am going to go with NONE OF THE ABOVE as far as Political Partys go..

    Donald Trump. He's my guy... :D Sure, he's an asshole.. But maybe that's what we need. An asshole who will slam down all the OTHER assholes on the planet...

    "Alright, whoever the hell you are. Use of military frequencies by unauthorized personnel is a felony. As we have no aircraft carrier Nimitz and no Captain Yelland I suggest, asshole, that you stop impersonating some other asshole and get off the air! You're wasting our time!"
    -Pearl Harbor Radio Operator, THE FINAL COUNTDOWN

    :D

    Michale

  29. [29] 
    Michale wrote:

    Looks like Ryan is going to take a Sherman on a Presidential run...

    Comments???

    Michale

  30. [30] 
    Elizabeth Miller wrote:

    Good. I think Kasich deserves this nomination.

  31. [31] 
    Michale wrote:

    And, Michale, your experiment with Democrats wasn't exactly a fair test since for all of the time that there was unified government, there was a huge financial crisis to contain.

    Oh I am sure there will ALWAYS be something that will "skew" the results..

    But the mark of a good leader is how he or she handles things when they go sideways...

    Michale

  32. [32] 
    Elizabeth Miller wrote:

    Donald Trump. He's my guy... :D Sure, he's an asshole.. But maybe that's what we need. An asshole who will slam down all the OTHER assholes on the planet...

    Good luck with that.

  33. [33] 
    Elizabeth Miller wrote:

    But the mark of a good leader is how he or she handles things when they go sideways...

    In the case of Obama and the Democratic congress, there was not only the most destructive financial crisis since the Great Depression greeting them on their first day in office but also an opposition whose sole priority, in the midst of the most destructive global financial crisis since the Great Depression when many Americans were suffering terribly, was to make President Obama a one-term president.

    That is the sort of thing that doesn't skew the results of an experiment but rather makes those results unusable for any serious analysis of the experiment.

  34. [34] 
    Elizabeth Miller wrote:

    Let's try that again ... :)

    But the mark of a good leader is how he or she handles things when they go sideways...

    In the case of Obama and the Democratic congress, there was not only the most destructive financial crisis since the Great Depression greeting them on their first day in office but also an opposition whose sole priority, in the midst of the most destructive global financial crisis since the Great Depression when many Americans were suffering terribly, was to make President Obama a one-term president.

    That is the sort of thing that doesn't skew the results of an experiment but rather makes those results unusable for any serious analysis of the experiment.

  35. [35] 
    Michale wrote:

    In the case of Obama and the Democratic congress, there was not only the most destructive financial crisis since the Great Depression greeting them on their first day in office

    And yet, as I have pointed out, Obama is creating the EXACT same "perfect storm" by pushing lenders to make housing loans to those who can't afford it...

    What's that saying about doing the exact same thing over and over again hoping for a different result??

    Michale

  36. [36] 
    Elizabeth Miller wrote:

    But, I would say that despite all of the roadblocks put up by the congressional republicans, President Obama and his estimable treasury secretary, Tim Geithner, did a pretty decent job of arresting the downward spiral of the US and global economy by providing solid leadership and good policy.

  37. [37] 
    Elizabeth Miller wrote:

    What's that saying about doing the exact same thing over and over again hoping for a different result??

    Are you talking about the credits involved in the bank settlements?

    I hope lenders won't make that mistake again.

  38. [38] 
    Michale wrote:

    Liz,

    Good luck with that.

    At least it won't be boring... :D

    "You can rob me, you can starve me...and you can beat me and you can kill me. Just don't bore me."
    -Gunny Highway, HEARTBREAK RIDGE

    :D

    Michale

  39. [39] 
    Michale wrote:

    Are you talking about the credits involved in the bank settlements?

    No.. I am talking about the Obama Administration forcing lenders to lend money to people with crappy credit and ridiculously low down payments..

    Circumstances that CAUSED the 2008 economic implosion...

    Michale

  40. [40] 
    Elizabeth Miller wrote:

    I didn't know the Obama administration was doing that. Where can I read more about that?

    Gotta link? :)

  41. [41] 
    Elizabeth Miller wrote:

    At least it won't be boring... :D

    "At least" leaves quite a lot more that will be much worse than boring.

    If that makes any sense at all. But, you know what I mean. :)

  42. [42] 
    Michale wrote:

    I didn't know the Obama administration was doing that. Where can I read more about that?

    Gotta link? :)

    Don't I always... :D

    Team Obama is setting us up for another housing-market collapse
    http://nypost.com/2016/04/09/team-obama-is-setting-us-up-for-another-housing-market-collapse/

    But sssshhhhhhhhhhhh

    Weigantian natives don't like it when their Messiah is slapped down.. :D

    Michale

  43. [43] 
    Michale wrote:

    But, I would say that despite all of the roadblocks put up by the congressional republicans, President Obama and his estimable treasury secretary, Tim Geithner, did a pretty decent job of arresting the downward spiral of the US and global economy by providing solid leadership and good policy.

    And yet, if one asks Joe and Jane Sixpack if their lives are any better and what will you hear???

    Not only a resounding NO!!! but a resounding HELL NO!!!!!

    Which is why Donald Trump is going to be our next President...

    You heard it here first.. :D

    Michale

  44. [44] 
    neilm wrote:

    And yet, if one asks Joe and Jane Sixpack if their lives are any better and what will you hear??? Not only a resounding NO!!! but a resounding HELL NO!!!!!

    So what are you saying Michale - even though the average wage has increased, and the average net worth, the median wage and the median net worth hasn't budget.

    Let's vote in Trump or Cruz and lower the 1% tax rates again, that should fix it ;)

    Joe and Jane Sixpack need to vote for somebody who is going to increase Income, Capital Gains and Inheritance taxes to redistribute the wealth. But Joe and Jane Sixpack don't want to do that because they've been trained to say "socialist" if anybody proposes it.

    Get back to me when you conclude that "trickle down" is a huge joke. Tell me, do you still buy into the Laffer Curve logic? Seriously, I'm wondering when the right wingers like yourself will conclude that Reagonomics is a disaster for the middle class. I want to know because it will be time to phone a friendly lawyer in the Caymens ;)

  45. [45] 
    neilm wrote:

    Bloody nannybot.

  46. [46] 
    neilm wrote:

    @Michale [43]:

    Have Joe and Jane Sixpack supporting Trump figured out Reagonomics has screwed them over for 35 years yet? When they do, get back to me, until then they get what they vote for. Their loss, but the whining is a bit boring and they are messing it up for the sensible people voting Democrat to try to balance the Capital vs. Labor power struggle.

  47. [47] 
    Michale wrote:

    Have Joe and Jane Sixpack supporting Trump figured out Reagonomics has screwed them over for 35 years yet?

    yea.. That's the Left Wingery claim...

    But Joe and Jane Sixpack remember how awesome everything was under Reagan... How the world trembled at our might..

    Now, the world laughs and ridicules the US and it's "red lines"...

    "You cross THIS line, you die... Uhhh You cross THIS line you die... You cross THIS line, you die!! Fine! You knock on my door, I not come out!!"
    Robin William's impression of Barack Obama...

    and they are messing it up for the sensible people voting Democrat to try to balance the Capital vs. Labor power struggle.

    yea.. "sensible" is what got us the Coward Of The Country, Barack Obama....

    Michale

  48. [48] 
    Michale wrote:

    I hope lenders won't make that mistake again.

    GOVERNMENT lenders are making that same mistake again...

    Why??? Because the Democrat Party needs votes. And the ONLY way that the Democrat Party can get votes is to bribe people with free stuff...

    Michale

  49. [49] 
    Michale wrote:

    Neal,

    You DID catch the poll that show Clinton and Trump neck and neck in the general, right??

    Not that polls mean anything this far out, but ya'all REALLY do like the polls..

    At least, ya'all like the polls that say what you want to hear... :D

    Michale

  50. [50] 
    Michale wrote:

    Neal,

    Sorry... Neil..... My bust....

    Michale

  51. [51] 
    Michale wrote:

    Why??? Because the Democrat Party needs votes. And the ONLY way that the Democrat Party can get votes is to bribe people with free stuff...

    "OOOOOoooo!!! Obama is going to give me a free phone and pay my mortgage!!!"
    -Average Obama voter....

    Michale

  52. [52] 
    Michale wrote:

    This twit just in!!!

    Barack Obama [] @BarackObama

    LIVE: President Obama is speaking about women's equality on #EqualPayDay. ofa.bo/fA5j

    Yea, Obama SPEAKS about women quality pay all the time..

    But his White House pays women, on average about 20-30 cents less than men for the same work...

    Obama speaks about a lot of things..

    But when it's time for the rubber to hit the road??

    He punks out...

    Michale

  53. [53] 
    Michale wrote:

    Sorry, went off on a tangent.. It just chaps my ass that people actually BUY into Obama's total and complete felgercarb....

    OH well, off to watch Season 9 of Big Bang Theory.. Almost caught up!! :D

    Michale

  54. [54] 
    neilm wrote:

    You DID catch the poll that show Clinton and Trump neck and neck in the general, right??

    Yup - but of an eye-opener for me.

  55. [55] 
    neilm wrote:

    But Joe and Jane Sixpack remember how awesome everything was under Reagan... How the world trembled at our might..

    You mean like when we pulled out after the suicide bombing in Beirut?

    The rest of the world regarded Reagan as a clown. It is a right wing wet-dream that America wasn't regarded as anything but a dangerous child at the time - I mean, the whole Grenada thing - really? Pathetic.

  56. [56] 
    Michale wrote:

    Yup - but of an eye-opener for me.

    I am actually surprised ta hear you say that.. Kudos.. :D

    You mean like when we pulled out after the suicide bombing in Beirut?

    One incident does not refute the idea..

    Under Reagan, the US was unchallenged in military prowess..

    The rest of the world regarded Reagan as a clown.

    SOME of the ingnorant in the rest of the world regarded Reagan as a clown...

    The ENTIRE world regards Obama as a clown..

    at the time - I mean, the whole Grenada thing - really? Pathetic.

    Funny you should mention that.. After my Heartbreak Ridge quote, I got a hankering to watch the movie.. Which was about the Grenada action.. :D

    But I take it you have never served in the military...

    Michale

  57. [57] 
    Michale wrote:

    Neil,

    C'mon Michale - you know that Fox News is going to be completely biased on this. They use 'revelations about Hillary' as a teaser to keep desperate viewers on the hook through the commercial breaks.

    And yet, NO ONE can refute the FACTS of the issue..

    I get it. The messenger is frak'ed so the message MUST be bogus..

    I am the same way.. Ya'all post something from HuffPoop or DK and treat it as gospel and I scoff and denigrate the message by way of the messenger...

    So yer not alone..

    But the facts ARE the facts...

    It's universally accepted that Hillary made a mistake and used very poor judgment in setting up her private home-brew insecure bathroom closet email server.

    This is ADMITTED by Hillary, Obama and everyone else...

    Even without the illegality of her actions, such poor judgment disqualifies Hillary from being President.

    Michale

  58. [58] 
    Michale wrote:

    Ya'all are slacking....

    COLORADO GOP DECIDES VOTERS DON’T NEED TO VOTE. WAIT! WHAT?
    https://radio.foxnews.com/2016/04/11/colorado-gop-decides-voters-dont-need-to-vote-wait-what/

    No slams against the GOP for disenfranchising voters???

    Is it because they are GOP voters so they don't matter???

    Here, let me help ya'all out...

    The GOP is a bunch of frakin' turd blossoms for disenfranchising Colorado voters...

    There.. Better?? :D

    Michale

  59. [59] 
    Michale wrote:

    For those who claim Trump is wrong on EVERYTHING...

    "I tell you, it's unfair even from the Democrats' side. Every time I turn on the television, Bernie wins, Bernie wins — for weeks — Bernie wins, Bernie wins, Bernie wins. And then I watch the commentators and they say, 'Bernie can't win.' How do you win every single week, every single state and you can't win? You know why? Because it's a corrupt system. It's corrupt there, and it's more corrupt on the Republican side."
    -Donald Trump

    If give you FACTS that prove them wrong... :D

    Michale

  60. [60] 
    Michale wrote:

    IF I give you facts but I say 'IF' instead of 'I', is it still factual?? :D

    Michale

  61. [61] 
    dsws wrote:

    Trump is bringing in millions of new voters. But they're not people who are disillusioned with the political process. They're people who don't care about the political process and just want a big show.

    He'll still lose the general election (assuming he wins the nomination, which I think he will). There are more millions of voters who do care at least a little about the political process, and won't vote for Trump. But they'll be back in subsequent elections, and they'll vote in down-ballot elections this fall. Trump is a pure boon for the Party, unless they "steal" the nomination from him.

  62. [62] 
    dsws wrote:

    There is nothing corrupt about having Southern votes count. Hillary won by huge margins in the South, and the South has more people than the states Bernie has been winning, so she's won more delegates. Bernie's wins happened more recently, but so what?

  63. [63] 
    dsws wrote:

    If Cruz loses to a Democrat, then it may actually bury the "let's run a true conservative" argument for a generation's time, at least.

    Not on this planet. They'll be convinced that the True Conservative lost because the Establishment stabbed him in the back.

  64. [64] 
    Michale wrote:

    DS,

    Trump is bringing in millions of new voters. But they're not people who are disillusioned with the political process. They're people who don't care about the political process and just want a big show.

    Assumes facts not in evidence..

    He'll still lose the general election (assuming he wins the nomination, which I think he will).

    X2

    There is nothing corrupt about having Southern votes count. Hillary won by huge margins in the South, and the South has more people than the states Bernie has been winning, so she's won more delegates. Bernie's wins happened more recently, but so what?

    It's called MOMENTUM and is a relevant factor..

    Not on this planet. They'll be convinced that the True Conservative lost because the Establishment stabbed him in the back.

    In spades.... :D

    Michale

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