ChrisWeigant.com

Our President's Crazy, Did You Hear What He Said?

[ Posted Tuesday, January 24th, 2017 – 19:08 UTC ]

I should begin today by explaining that that headline comes from a Talking Heads song ("Making Flippy Floppy"), which was written during the years when Ronald Reagan was in the White House. It's kind of a nonsensical song and it's just one throwaway line; it wasn't trying to make some deeper point. Back then, liberals were constantly amused by pronouncements from the Gipper (such as: "trees cause more pollution than automobiles," to give just one hilarious example), so it was a common sentiment among his political opponents.

After watching the first few days of the Donald Trump administration, however, it seemed the most appropriate headline to go with. Because he hasn't exactly had a great start. Or to put it another way: there will be no "pivot" to a more-presidential Trump. He is who he is, and that's who he's going to be as president. And a big part of who he is is his worldview, which is often (as one of his spokespersons admitted this weekend), full of "alternative facts." Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer helpfully pointed out, in response: "There are no alternative facts. The alternative to fact is fiction."

Bearing the worst brunt of this reaction is Trump's new press secretary, Sean Spicer. Spicer was reportedly instructed to make his first official interaction with the press, on Saturday, a full-throated defense of the indefensible: Trump's inauguration celebration in D.C. was the biggest in all of recorded history, and the press was just being mean by not pointing it out. Well, no, it actually wasn't and they weren't. Scientists, when deciding what is fact and what is opinion, will talk about "falsifiability," or the concept that any given assertion can be proven false. If it is falsifiable, it is data worth examining. If not, it is either opinion or faith -- both of which are really beyond the purview of hard sciences. "When we die, X happens" is a good example of a non-falsifiable statement (no matter what you insert for X -- "reincarnation," or "we go to Heaven or Hell," or whatever...), because it is impossible to prove. Near-death experiences don't count -- nobody has ever died and verifiably come back from the dead to tell the rest of us what to expect, and I don't expect they ever will. So the statement is unprovable, one way or the other.

Trump's inauguration size being the biggest ever is a falsifiable piece of data. It's pretty easy to prove it false, in fact -- just look at a photo of the size of the crowd Obama got in 2009 (or even 2013) and compare it to a photo of last Friday down on the Mall. So why pick this particular fight when it's pretty obvious to anyone with any sense that Trump (and Spicer) staked out the losing side of the argument? Sorry, Sean (and Donald), but that's just not what 1.5 million people on the Mall look like.

Trump needs to get a lot better about picking his battles now that he's president, but so far he has shown an inability to listen to the counsel of others on which battle is even a winnable one for him. His ego demands respect from all -- whether earned or not -- and it will have its way no matter what anyone whispers in Trump's ear. Trump was convinced his inauguration was the biggest, so it must be so -- and everyone around him must forcefully defend this position. Period.

Spicer's performance on Saturday was followed up on Sunday by more statements from Team Trump, clarifying what he meant (in other words: pretzel-twisting Trump's beliefs to bear some slight resemblance to reality). Trump then teed up the next big egotistical rewriting of reality, telling members of Congress that between three and five million votes in the election were nothing short of voter fraud. Spicer was back out today for a press conference where he had to weakly insist that "the president believes this to be true," while backing away from actually defending the assertion as being true (he's learning). This will hopefully, in the future, help journalists classify Trump statements, differentiating between "actually true" and "just something Trump believes." It's the same filtering scientists do when deciding what is a faith-based statement and what could be proven factual in the real world.

Of course, misstatements and mistakes are always possible. Spicer made one today that I fully expect to see exploited by the late-night comics tonight, when he stated (in response to a question whether Trump would be meeting with the Congressional Black Caucus any time soon) that Trump had already met some civil rights leaders, including "Martin Luther King Junior." That'd be a pretty amazing feat, if true (and would indeed even move "what happens when we die" into the realm of falsifiability). Spicer obviously misspoke, even if he didn't realize it (even after someone in the audience yelled out "the third!"). Trump met with Martin Luther King III, the son of the famous civil rights leader. But Spicer, when presented with a video of his goof, can fully be expected to admit he erred. Whether Trump is capable of doing so -- even when caught in a similar slip of the tongue -- still remains to be seen.

There's been a lot of armchair psychoanalysis of Trump (ranging from "narcissistic" to "megalomaniacal") due to his absolute, unshakeable belief that his election was the most stupendous election in the annals of American history. Again, it was not. It was fairly impressive for a Republican in modern times, but that's about it. It was not, for instance, "a landslide," no matter how many Trump spokesfolk insist that it was. A truthful and verifiable statement on the size of Trump's electoral victory would be something like: "Donald Trump earned the biggest Electoral College victory of any Republican since George H. W. Bush." This is factual, because Trump could have even lost a few states and still won the election. He bested both George W. Bush's records, in other words. But he didn't best Obama's two elections -- not by a longshot. He didn't beat Bill Clinton's record, either. And he certainly didn't come close to Reagan's impressive landslides, or even the tally for the elder Bush. None of these facts matter to Trump -- in his mind, his presidential election was (at the very least) the most awesome since the time of Abraham Lincoln, and perhaps even the best since George Washington. That this is not in any way true does not bother him in the least, because he sees things the way he sees them, and nothing is going to change his opinion.

One certainly hopes that, with time, Trump will at least either grow a thicker skin (and not be so prone to attacking perceived slights) or have people around him aware enough of verifiable reality to counsel which fights are worth picking, and which are just flat-out losing battles. Presidents have a way of brushing things off that Trump really needs some practice in, to put this another way. If he continues to insist that his version of events is the correct one -- even in the face of overwhelming proof to the contrary -- then he's going to start losing support of Republicans (and the general public) who are now giving the new president the benefit of the doubt. When all doubt has been removed and Trump still insists up is down or black is white, all he'll be doing is confirming that he is incapable of realizing when falsification has actually happened for everyone else.

So far, this has all been in the realm of the petty. What Trump believes vis à vis his own inauguration or his own election isn't all that meaningful to how he leads the country in either foreign or domestic policy. It's personal, but it has no real ramifications beyond the personal. What will be much more concerning is if Trump ever exhibits this kind of behavior towards real-world facts that will have an impact on the rest of America. If Trump refuses to admit that the scope of a foreign crisis is what all his national security advisors insist it is or if Trump refuses to agree with budget projections (to throw out just two easy examples), then how Trump chooses to interpret reality and react will have much more far-reaching consequences.

At this point, the only thing I can state with certainty is that this will not be the last time I use this David Byrne quote as a headline over the next four years. My only hope is that saying: "Our president's crazy, did you hear what he said?" will continue to just be a punchline for late-night television comics to exploit, instead of becoming a downright terrifying statement to make. At this point, that seems like the best we can all hope for.

-- Chris Weigant

 

Follow Chris on Twitter: @ChrisWeigant

 

77 Comments on “Our President's Crazy, Did You Hear What He Said?”

  1. [1] 
    neilm wrote:

    The real problem with Trump is his inability to understand reality. With the repeal of Obamacare real people are going to die when they could have been saved. Trump will believe that Obamacare was a disaster and so he has made things better, but real people will still be dead.

    This is why congress and the executive branch need to be forced to have the same healthcare coverage as, at a minimum, government employees. It would be even better if they had to have Medicaid.

  2. [2] 
    neilm wrote:

    How long will people who live in the real world subordinate their self respect for their need to see "liberals" lose?

    We are running a giant experiment in cognitive dissonance.

  3. [3] 
    neilm wrote:

    This time, with Trump and his paper thin skin and desperate ego, we can say definitively, that is isn't the same as it ever was.

  4. [4] 
    neilm wrote:

    https://shift.newco.co/https-medium-com-peteleyden-why-trumps-inauguration-is-not-the-beginning-of-an-era-but-the-end-72a86833f0a3#.s17asfz3c

    1. Pete Wilson anti-immigration BS
    2. Arnie the celebrity leader
    3. Red/Blue gridlock in Sacramento for a decade in the 90's

    U.S. today = California in the 90/00's

    As usual the rest of he U.S. is 10-20 years behind the Golden State.

    Trump is only accelerating the demise of crazy Republicans and bringing in a new progressive era.

    It certainly sounds good to me :)

  5. [5] 
    ListenWhenYouHear wrote:

    Note this amazing exchange with New York Times reporter Maggie Haberman:

    HABERMAN: What do you think people will take away from this convention? What are you hoping?

    TRUMP: From the convention? The fact that I’m very well liked. Look, I got more votes than anybody in the history of the Republican Party. Almost 14 million votes. I got 37 states. Kasich has one. As an example, Ted had, you know, not many. Thirty-seven states. Now, with the roll call, I had 44 states. It was 44 to seven and the seven was everybody else: 44 to seven. It was 44 to six because we are including the different islands. And when you are in that hall and you see those people, like yesterday, my daughter called up, she said, “Dad, I’ve never seen it — it’s total love.”

    This has always been one big ego stroking-fest for Twitler.... and it isn't gonna change anytime soon.

  6. [6] 
    neilm wrote:

    https://mishtalk.com/2017/01/24/expect-yelling-from-china-mexico-europe-importers/#more-43643

    There are only losers in a Trade War. Trump is a loser if he starts one.

    Note Trump is suddenly for border adjustments - somebody probably got the "Dick and Jane Explain Simple Trade Economics to the President" book for him.

  7. [7] 
    michale wrote:

    Back then, liberals were constantly amused by pronouncements from the Gipper (such as: "trees cause more pollution than automobiles," to give just one hilarious example),

    "What would this country be without this great land of ours?"
    -Ronald Reagan

    :D

    Because he hasn't exactly had a great start.

    Yer kidding, right???

    Trump's off to an AWESOME start.. He's keeping ALL of his promises!!

    Trump to sign executive orders enabling construction of proposed border wall and targeting sanctuary cities
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/president-trump-is-planning-to-sign-executive-orders-on-immigration-this-week/2017/01/24/aba22b7a-e287-11e6-a453-19ec4b3d09ba_story.html

    His cabinet appointments are facing no real opposition for confirmation...

    Trump is da bomb!!!! :D

    Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer helpfully pointed out, in response: "There are no alternative facts. The alternative to fact is fiction."

    And, as I have aptly proven, the Democrats are no stranger to alternative facts either...

    Schumer should clean his own house first before he complains about Trump's house..

    Trump's inauguration size being the biggest ever is a falsifiable piece of data. It's pretty easy to prove it false, in fact -- just look at a photo of the size of the crowd Obama got in 2009 (or even 2013) and compare it to a photo of last Friday down on the Mall. So why pick this particular fight when it's pretty obvious to anyone with any sense that Trump (and Spicer) staked out the losing side of the argument? Sorry, Sean (and Donald), but that's just not what 1.5 million people on the Mall look like.

    Of course, if one cherry picks the photos......

    For example, take a photo from the HEIGHT of Obama's inauguration and take a photo from WAY before Trump inauguration starts and viola.. You have "proof" that Obama's inauguration was bigger...

    It's all about the cherry picked data....

    Of course, misstatements and mistakes are always possible.

    "I am exhausted after touring all 57 states"
    -FORMER President Odumbo

    I just LOVE saying that.. **FORMER** President Odumbo..

    :D

    So far, this has all been in the realm of the petty.

    Yes, yes it has...

    But that doesn't stop the Left Wingery from being apeshit hysterical about it..

    Ya'all should pace yerselves.. Yer gonna blow a gasket if ya'all are THIS bad off right at the start..

    Ya'all got 8 years to go...

    PACE yerselves... :D

  8. [8] 
    michale wrote:

    The real problem with Trump is his inability to understand reality.

    A man who is as successful as Trump has been in business, a man who beat 17 political veterans, a man who creamed the BIGGEST and MEANEST and RICHEST political juggernaut in the history of the world???

    I would say that such a man has a complete and firm grasp on reality...

    I would further say that anyone who CLAIMS such a man does not understand reality; THEY are the ones who don't understand reality...

    With the repeal of Obamacare real people are going to die when they could have been saved.

    And when Odumbo pushed thru TrainWreckCare by hook and by crook, REAL people died that could have been saved...

    Works both ways, my friend..

    This is why congress and the executive branch need to be forced to have the same healthcare coverage as, at a minimum, government employees. It would be even better if they had to have Medicaid.

    Now, on THIS we are in complete agreement..

    So why didn't DumboCrats force this after forcing thru TrainWreckCare???

  9. [9] 
    michale wrote:

    How long will people who live in the real world subordinate their self respect for their need to see "liberals" lose?

    As long as Americans and America wins... :D

    Trump is only accelerating the demise of crazy Republicans and bringing in a new progressive era.

    Ya'all have been saying that for the last YEAR...

    And yet, it's the DUMBOCRAT Party that is leader-less, rudder-less and brain-less....

    Talk about not understanding reality.... :D

  10. [10] 
    michale wrote:

    This has always been one big ego stroking-fest for Twitler.... and it isn't gonna change anytime soon.

    Who cares... As long as America and Americans keep winning, who CARES about Trump's ego???

    DumboCrats are just sore losers feasting on crow and sour grapes...

  11. [11] 
    michale wrote:

    Note Trump is suddenly for border adjustments - somebody probably got the "Dick and Jane Explain Simple Trade Economics to the President" book for him.

    Yep.. As I explained in a previous comment, President Trump SHOULD change his stance on Border Adjustments, as it will FORCE Mexico to pay for the wall, as President Trump promised..

    Apparently, President Trump reads CW.COM... :D

  12. [12] 
    John From Censornati wrote:

    That all sounds a lot like the twisted christian cancervative construct that the deplorables call "sincerely held religious belief". The faithers want legal protection for their beliefs that they make up as they go along. The Orange One's baseless beliefs will not be an issue to the Trumpthugs. Provided that he sticks to hating muslims and Mexicans, his fanboys will adore him. He's playing to the bootlickers, but his hazy orange bubble clouds his vision and makes him think that there are more of them than there really are.

  13. [13] 
    michale wrote:

    Trump is only accelerating the demise of crazy Republicans and bringing in a new progressive era.

    The Democrats' Rise Is Far From Inevitable

    The Senate map in 2018 is brutal for Democrats. If Democrats want to get their mojo back, they’re going to need to do more than get a small minority of voters to turn out for a march. They’re going to need to get back some of those rural votes.

    To do that, they’re probably going to have to let go of the most soul-satisfying, brain-melting political theory of the last two decades: that Democrats are inevitably the Party of the Future, guaranteed ownership of the future by an emerging Democratic majority in minority-white America. This theory underlay a lot of Obama’s presidency, and Clinton’s campaign. With President Trump's inauguration on Friday, we saw the results.
    https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2017-01-24/the-democrats-rise-is-far-from-inevitable

    You sure about that, Neil?? :D

    Because, from where reality sits, Democrats don't stand a chance in 2018 and are going to be severely handicapped in 2020 by the popularity of President Trump...

  14. [14] 
    michale wrote:

    That all sounds a lot like the twisted christian cancervative construct that the deplorables call "sincerely held religious belief". The faithers want legal protection for their beliefs that they make up as they go along. The Orange One's baseless beliefs will not be an issue to the Trumpthugs. Provided that he sticks to hating muslims and Mexicans, his fanboys will adore him. He's playing to the bootlickers, but his hazy orange bubble clouds his vision and makes him think that there are more of them than there really are.

    Sounds like a lot of wishful thinking, KFC... :D

    It's that exact kind of wishful thinking that brought us President Trump.... :D

    I'm just sayin'....

  15. [15] 
    michale wrote:

    Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer helpfully pointed out, in response: "There are no alternative facts. The alternative to fact is fiction."

    I am also constrained to point out that the "alternate" to fact is NOT fiction... The OPPOSITE of fact is fiction..

    The alternate to fact could simply be another fact...

    For example, weatherunderground dot com says the high today is going to be 77... That's a fact..

    An ALTERNATE of that fact can be found at weather dot com. Which says the high is going to be 82.. That an alternative to the first fact, but it's also a fact in itself...

    Another example...

    It's a fact that President Trump's inauguration had, say, 2 million people...

    It's an alternative fact that President Trump's inauguration had 500,000 people..

    Both are factual.. It just all depends on one's ideology as to which fact one wants to believe..

    See??

  16. [16] 
    neilm wrote:

    Both are factual.. It just all depends on one's ideology as to which fact one wants to believe..

    The gullibility runs strong in this one.

  17. [17] 
    neilm wrote:

    Yep.. As I explained in a previous comment, President Trump SHOULD change his stance on Border Adjustments, as it will FORCE Mexico to pay for the wall, as President Trump promised..

    Really? Explain how, and remember for Mexico to pay for the wall you have to ensure that American consumers are not simply paying higher prices on mpoorts, otherwise we the people have simply paid for the wall at least twice (once from our taxes and again with higher prices from Mexican imports) AND you have to explain why Canada, France, Senegal, Colombia, etc are not also paying for the wall.

    I read the original article you 'learned' this argument from and it was so full of holes and simplistic I thought it was an Onion piece.

  18. [18] 
    neilm wrote:

    are going to be severely handicapped in 2020 by the popularity of President Trump...

    Not really off to a good start, is he? He is going to be the most hated President in modern history based on his numbers so far. And if you think the rest of the country are going to fall for 'alternative facts', which the rest of us call lies, from some slick guy in Washington whose hair doesn't even look real, you have forgotten the fact that the electorate aren't fanboys like yourself.

  19. [19] 
    neilm wrote:

    Nice try with the weather example, however both web sites can show the evidence they use to create their estimate and it isn't like one is predicting -40 and all the others are in the 75-85 range.

    Try again. Trump has no evidence to support his ludicrous lie, but there is plenty of evidence that show he is lying (public transport, pictures, use of white ground cover at earlier inauguration, no 'magnetometers' in use, etc. etc.).

    Trump lies. It is that simple. He lies all the time. He has been proven time and time again to lie, then repeat his lie even in the face of overwhelming evidence. He doesn't care because at the moment he has a bunch of gullible fanboys that are so anti-liberal they will throw their integrity out of the window for him.

    Sad.

  20. [20] 
    michale wrote:

    The gullibility runs strong in this one.

    Says the guy who believes that Hillary won the election.. :D

    I read the original article you 'learned' this argument from and it was so full of holes and simplistic I thought it was an Onion piece.

    That's your opinion, but as I have aptly proven beyond any doubt, it's an opinion completely based on Party ideology..

    Not really off to a good start, is he?

    He's off to a great start!! :D

    He is going to be the most hated President in modern history based on his numbers so far.

    And WHO is producing those numbers?? The Leftist Media who samples 80% Democrats and 10% Republicans...

    Trump is ONLY hated by those people who support globalist corporatism... Patriotic Americans love Trump..

    Try again. Trump has no evidence to support his ludicrous lie, but there is plenty of evidence that show he is lying (public transport, pictures, use of white ground cover at earlier inauguration, no 'magnetometers' in use, etc. etc.).

    And again, who is producing this "evidence"...

    The Leftist MSM who has proven beyond ANY doubt that they will lie and cheat to attack Trump..

    Your source is not credible, therefore your evidence and your "facts" are not credible..

    That's the reality of the here and now..

  21. [21] 
    michale wrote:

    Nice try with the weather example, however both web sites can show the evidence they use to create their estimate and it isn't like one is predicting -40 and all the others are in the 75-85 range.

    But they ARE different "facts"... THAT's the point..

    There is such a thing as alternative facts..

    But what the Leftist MSM is force feeding you are not facts...

  22. [22] 
    neilm wrote:

    But they ARE different "facts"... THAT's the point..

    There is such a thing as alternative facts..

    You really don't understand the concept of legitimate estimates and pulling stuff out of where the sun don't shine. Explains why you fall for Trump's lies.

    Also, Trump's popularity is a historical low for a brand new President - so again, he is off to a bad start in the popularity stakes - this is a simple fact. Your fact that he is really popular isn't a fact it is a desperate hope. Like your numbers for Trump's inauguration.

    Must have really stung when many times as many people protested on Saturday as could be bothered to turn up on Friday. What a sad loser Trump already is, "ratings machine" my behind.

  23. [23] 
    neilm wrote:

    The Economist's take on Trump's inauguration speech: "I have a nightmare".

  24. [24] 
    michale wrote:

    Dow Hits 20000 for First Time
    Since Election Day, the stock market has found fresh legs to add to one of the longest bull-market runs in U.S. history

    http://blogs.wsj.com/moneybeat/2017/01/25/dow-hits-20000-for-first-time/

    Making America Great Again.... :D

  25. [25] 
    michale wrote:

    The Economist's take on Trump's inauguration speech: "I have a nightmare".

    Yes.. We ALL had a nightmare.. It was called The Odumbo Administration..

    But now the long 8 year nightmare is over...

    It's morning in America....

    You really don't understand the concept of legitimate estimates and pulling stuff out of where the sun don't shine. Explains why you fall for Trump's lies.

    As opposed to YOU falling for Odumbo's lies???

    :D

    Must have really stung when many times as many people protested on Saturday as could be bothered to turn up on Friday. What a sad loser Trump already is, "ratings machine" my behind.

    Too bad for you, those people couldn't have bothered to show up on 8 Nov, eh??? :D

    Sucks, don't it.. :D

  26. [26] 
    michale wrote:

    Yes.. We ALL had a nightmare.. It was called The Odumbo Administration..

    I know, I know.. You don't like it when I call Obama names..

    But you quit with the 'Orange Facist', get Russ to quit with 'Twitler' and get Chicken Boy to quit with 'Orange One' and I'll gladly act like an adult as well....

    Until such time, it's a 3rd grade playground around here.. :D

  27. [27] 
    neilm wrote:

    Trump needs to get a lot better about picking his battles now that he's president, but so far he has shown an inability to listen to the counsel of others on which battle is even a winnable one for him. His ego demands respect from all -- whether earned or not -- and it will have its way no matter what anyone whispers in Trump's ear. Trump was convinced his inauguration was the biggest, so it must be so -- and everyone around him must forcefully defend this position. Period.

    The cognitive dissonance an obviously intelligent guy like Spicer will have to deal with every day will wear him down and we'll see his character - is he all about the power, or does he have some integrity. This is an internal battle many of Trump's inner circle will have to face. Here is my take on some of them:

    Tillerson: as long as he nods sort of in Trump's direction and he isn;t undermined by some nut case like Flynn or Trump's family, I think he can put America first and will be peripheral to Trump's court.

    Kelly-Anne: She took on the greatest challenge in politics in the last decade or more and made Trump as polished as a turd can be. Her new role seems to be to keep polishing the same turd, and I think once her point has been made in the pol-sci circles she'll realize that her success story was all about 2016, and people are less and less impressed with the same "pulling a rabbit out of a hat" trick. She'll get bored and leave to create her own marketing firm.

    Maddog: I hope Trump is scared of him and every time some clown in Trump's court tries to foist something stupid on America Maddis shouts at them until they crawl back under whatever stone they came out from.

    Sessons: he will piss off so much of America overreaching he will be one of Trump's early scapegoats thrown aside to try to turn around Trump's plummeting popularity ratings.

    DeVoy: She will flounder around doing a lot of damage but since America doesn't care about their kids' education she will last well past her sell by date.

    Mnuchin: interesting opportunity here. He might turn out to be a Joe Kennedy type - somebody who knows the system from playing it and does America a favor by really putting some effort into cleaning it up. Alternatively he might just be another insider working the system for the mega rich. Time will tell. I suspect Trump will try to interfere but Mnuchin will confuse him and get what he wants when Trump can't admit he doesn't know the fist thing Mnuchin is talking about.

    Puzder: will get bored pretending to be a public servant and after he has done the things he wants for his businesses will go back to being the biggest fish in his own pond.

    Perry: Will be putty in the hands of senior civil servants. They will give him some ribbons to cut and let him declare himself a visionary. He and Trump will be very happy together.

    Kelly: He will do a good job for America, but he is in the hot seat and will have to sign up for more Trump "alternate facts" than most of the rest of the intelligent Cabinet members. I think he has too much integrity and if he can build a personal reputation as a decent guy in the public's eye as head of the DHS then he will try to challenge Trump in the court of public opinion. Trump may well back off as long as Kelly gives him some BS 'wins' for Trump to strut about with.

  28. [28] 
    michale wrote:

    I mean, if you want to talk about LIES..

    What about the lie that the Left Wingery spewed incessantly that if Trump were elected, the Stock Market would collapse???

    Like I said (and NO ONE can refute) when it comes to lies, clean yer own house first.. THEN you have a foundation to complain about GOP lies and Trump "lies"...

  29. [29] 
    neilm wrote:

    I know, I know.. You don't like it when I call Obama names..

    I don't care, but it just reflects on you - you gave me some good advice once and it stuck.

  30. [30] 
    neilm wrote:

    What about the lie that the Left Wingery spewed incessantly that if Trump were elected, the Stock Market would collapse???

    Let's see. The stock market is assuming they are getting Trump-lite, not Donnie Darko.

    http://www.economist.com/blogs/buttonwood/2017/01/investor-uncertainty?fsrc=scn/fb/te/bl/ed/

  31. [31] 
    michale wrote:

    I don't care, but it just reflects on you

    As it reflects on you and Russ and ChickenBoy and Troll/Asshole...

    Right??

    - you gave me some good advice once and it stuck.

    Well, almost stuck.. :D

    But I am just playing the game by ya'all's rules....

    Let's see. The stock market is assuming they are getting Trump-lite, not Donnie Darko.

    And yet, the Market has gone up and up and up and up...

    So either you are wrong about Trump or the entire Market is wrong about Trump....

  32. [32] 
    michale wrote:

    All I am saying is that reality is not driving your "facts" here...

    The only thing driving your "facts" is partisan ideology....

  33. [33] 
    altohone wrote:

    Balthy
    delayed response to comment 248 from Obama poll watch

    Bernie did lay out exactly how to pay for his plans.
    Claiming otherwise is dishonest.

    You may recall Hillary Inc. and her corrupt media lackeys clutching their pearls about Bernie's Single Payer plan costing $18 trillion over ten years... while ignoring that at our current pace of expenditures we will be spending $30 trillion in the same period, and not even covering everybody.
    Yes, we are currently spending about 3 trillion dollars per year on health care.
    Not only is Single Payer truly universal coverage, but it actually yields massive savings.

    Corrupt "centrists" attacking the base of the Democratic party with such lies and many others is not a path to success.

    After eviscerating the Democratic party through massive and repeated electoral failures, it's time for the right wing corporatists posing as Democrats to step aside.

    Now, there certainly are bad aspects to some strains of populism.
    But sometimes serving the will and interests of the majority is just honoring the concept of democracy.

    And, for the record, if you want to talk about Venezuela, an honest discussion would include the impact of the economic warfare we unleashed after the coup attempt against Chavez by our corporatist Democratic "leaders" failed miserably.

    A

  34. [34] 
    neilm wrote:

    So either you are wrong about Trump or the entire Market is wrong about Trump....

    Markets are fickle in the short term, and, as I stated in the article I wrote last week, indifferent to the partisanship in the White House.

    Starting a trade war is something markets have not had to deal with in the modern era (nobody has been as stupid as Trump to even jawbone about it). This is a factor that wasn't covered (lack of evidence to draw conclusions for) in the paper I based part of my article on.

    There are only losers in trade wars. Surely Mnuchin is smart enough to know this, plus free trade is a cornerstone of Republican philosophy. Let's hope somebody stops Trump before he crashes multiple economies. Mind you, he might be one of the shortest Presidents in history if he trashes the U.S. economy by canceling NAFTA then the Republicans pull their knives out and stab him in the back - there is plenty to work with - the emoluments clause is easy pickings for an impeachment.

  35. [35] 
    altohone wrote:

    neil
    4

    "Trump is only accelerating the demise of crazy Republicans and bringing in a new progressive era.

    It certainly sounds good to me :)"

    Me too.
    But helping it along by recognizing the failures of the corporatist warmongering wing of the Democratic party is a necessary step.

    I don't trust him to follow through, as the confirmation vote for the head of the CIA who wouldn't rule out a return of torture as US policy showed, but even Chuck Schumer has admitted that Democrats need to re-embrace economics that help the working class.
    That's not quite admitting that the economics they had embraced was harming the working class, but it is a baby step in the right direction.

    The Third Way types who are set to spend millions attacking the Warren and Bernie wing need to be recognized as anti-progressive... and called out... as in challenged vocally.
    Lip service to progressive issues, or only focusing on progressive social issues and ignoring the economic ones while maintaining devotion to Republican-lite economics, will not fool voters.

    A

  36. [36] 
    altohone wrote:

    Troll
    7

    "And, as I have aptly proven, the Democrats are no stranger to alternative facts either..."

    Setting aside the "morality" of claiming two wrongs make a right, once again we witness trollery in action.

    In this case, whataboutery.

    Rather than trying to defend Trump, it's "what about Democrats".

    So convincing.

    A

  37. [37] 
    Don Harris wrote:

    What's the big deal if a few million votes were voter fraud committed by illegal immigrants?
    After all, they are just doing the job that 40% or more of the eligible citizens refuse to do.

  38. [38] 
    altohone wrote:

    Hey CW and gang

    This is well worth a read-

    "Seymour Hersh Blasts Media for Uncritically Promoting Russian Hacking Story"

    by Jeremy Scahill
    The Intercept
    January 25 2017

    He bashes the media, Obama and Trump.

    A breath of fresh air.

    A

  39. [39] 
    michale wrote:

    Starting a trade war is something markets have not had to deal with in the modern era (nobody has been as stupid as Trump to even jawbone about it). This is a factor that wasn't covered (lack of evidence to draw conclusions for) in the paper I based part of my article on

    If Trump starts a trade war and we lose, then you'll have a leg to stand on...

    But, until that happens, it's all ideologically based conjecture...

    There are only losers in trade wars.

    Assumes facts not in evidence..

    Let's hope somebody stops Trump before he crashes multiple economies.

    Again, nothing but ideology talking..

  40. [40] 
    michale wrote:

    Troll (Formerly Known As Asshole)

    Setting aside the "morality" of claiming two wrongs make a right, once again we witness trollery in action.

    Yes, we are witnessing it in action..

    So, why don't you quit it like several people have asked??

    Rather than trying to defend Trump, it's "what about Democrats".

    I don't HAVE to defend Trump.. He's doing an awesome job as POTUS, as I knew he would..

    It's only the America-Haters who claim he isn't...

  41. [41] 
    ListenWhenYouHear wrote:

    What about the lie that the Left Wingery spewed incessantly that if Trump were elected, the Stock Market would collapse???

    Wow! So all this time you have not understood the difference between someone being wrong about a prediction they made and someone choosing to be dishonest??? Oh wait, you do know the difference and this is just another example of life imitating fart from ya!

  42. [42] 
    michale wrote:

    Wow! So all this time you have not understood the difference between someone being wrong about a prediction they made and someone choosing to be dishonest???

    When said someone is wrong about **EVERY** prediction, then dishonesty seeps in...

    Oh wait, you do know the difference and this is just another example of life imitating fart from ya!

    heheheheheh Now THAT was funny!! :D

  43. [43] 
    neilm wrote:
  44. [44] 
    altohone wrote:

    neil
    43

    Thanks.
    Did you catch the surprise winner of the first round of the Socialists primary in France wants to pursue it as well?

    The experiments in the article you shared all seem to suffer from some of the shortcomings discussed in the Ladd article (and comments) you shared a while back.

    I'm a little worried that false conclusions will be drawn from fundamentally flawed efforts.

    A

  45. [45] 
    altohone wrote:

    Troll
    40

    "I don't have to defend Trump"?
    You seem to be spending an awful lot of time trying to defend him.
    If you don't have to, why are you trying?

    But look.
    You've been a troll for over a decade.
    Long before you had the pleasure of meeting me again here.
    Trying to shift the blame onto those who are inured to your trollery won't convince me to stop.

    You not understanding the incivility of trolling isn't an excuse.

    My documentation of your trollery and the various tactics you use (unlike your empty assertion) is not an effort to get you to stop.
    It's a public service from just one of the many you have lied about.

    Trollery prevents honest debate.
    Your tactics are offensive.
    And exposing them is highly amusing.

    A troll who thinks that my calling out said troll and documenting his trollery makes me a troll isn't convincing, but so be it.
    Like Trump, you will believe what you want to believe.

    There is some good news.
    Your cries for help are causing you to miss a tremor in the force... you are soooo close to vanquishing me... don't give up now.
    Can't you feel the impending victory?
    The vulgarity didn't work.
    The mimicry isn't working.
    But I can just tell that your next idea will hit home.
    Hang in there.
    You can do it Duffy Brown.

    But, hey.
    Since begging for help is on your agenda these days, I'll offer you some.
    I'm still open to giving you a (probably temporary) reprieve.

    Apologize for including me in your false generalizations about everyone here in Weigantia, and stop including me in them going forward, and in return I will promise to only call out your trollery in comments you specifically direct to me.

    That's a fair deal.

    I can't promise to stop calling you a troll though, because I'm an honest person.

    A

  46. [46] 
    neilm wrote:

    I'm a little worried that false conclusions will be drawn from fundamentally flawed efforts.

    I am too, however the alternative is that everybody sits on their hands.

    This could be like solar panels or wind turbines - they get some momentum in fits and starts, and there are some small successes and failures, but over time the economic environment makes it more and more feasible and the stutters turn into small programs then larger and larger programs.

  47. [47] 
    michale wrote:

    Troll (Formerly Known As Asshole)

    You seem to be spending an awful lot of time trying to defend him.

    'Trying' my ass.. I am wiping the floor with you people.. :D

    I can't promise to stop calling you a troll though, because I'm an honest person.

    The fact that you insist on lying about me proves you are not an honest person..

    Which is typical of you Left Wingery fanatics.. :D

    Sorry if your butthurt because I am calling you out...

    Quit being an asshole and I'll quit pointing it out...

    It's really simple.. But I am not surprised you can't see it...

    Civility always escapes trolls like you....

  48. [48] 
    michale wrote:

    WALL CONSTRUCTION TO BEGIN IN MONTHS
    THE IMMIGRATION DIRECTIVES...
    Temp ban on refugees...
    Border Patrol Praises...
    Prepares To Drastically Reduce USA Involvement in UN...
    Presidency Upends Familiar Story Lines...

    I have to say... President Trump is really kicking ass and taking names...

    No wonder patriotic Americans are cheering... :D

  49. [49] 
    michale wrote:

    Troll (Formerly Known As Asshole)

    I must REALLY be getting to you that you would expend so much effort to try and convince yerself that yer not the asshole everyone here knows you are... :D

  50. [50] 
    michale wrote:

    https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t34.0-12/16358690_1833219423609724_2121450323_n.jpg?oh=0ec0d187e765e6d469053e7c51e7db67&oe=588B901A

    Ahhhhhhhh So THAT's what's wrong with Trump....

    Where do ya'all FIND these people!??? :^/

  51. [51] 
    michale wrote:

    Prepares To Drastically Reduce USA Involvement in UN...
    https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/25/us/politics/united-nations-trump-administration.html?mtrref=drudgereport.com&gwh=C9F0FF1B21D502811B8F98910D43050D&gwt=pay

    Another good start!!

    President Trump is REALLY kicking ass!!! :D

  52. [52] 
    neilm wrote:

    Michale:

    You're hyperventilating again - calm down buddy.

    Trump is a proven con man - you know that is true when you take off your rose colored glasses. He might be legit in his new role, but you have to be a lot less gullible than you have been so far - he has a lot to prove before his approval rating comes out of the toilet for the vast majority of regular, no BS Americans.

  53. [53] 
    neilm wrote:

    Michale:

    What danger is a 2-year-old Syrian orphan boy or girl to the U.S.?

  54. [54] 
    Balthasar wrote:

    President Trump is REALLY kicking ass!

    I hope that someone has told the Orange One that all of these executive orders are subject to review by the courts (even the secret ones!), and that projects like his Pet Wall have to be funded by congress.

    Every good dictator likes to make it rain on his followers, and the Trumpettes are getting drenched with one goodie after another right now. Get fat on it, dudes, feast like there's no tomorrow...

    What's he gonna do when he runs out of low hanging fruit? It's still a democracy, as inconvenient as that sounds...

  55. [55] 
    michale wrote:

    You're hyperventilating again - calm down buddy.

    I am perfectly calm...

    It's you Left Wingers that are hysterical..

    TRUMP IS EVIL BECAUSE HE DOESN'T HAVE A DOG!!!

    Jeezus... :^/

    Trump is a proven con man - you know that is true when you take off your rose colored glasses.

    Trump beat THE BIGGEST and MEANEST Political Juggernaut in the history of the planet..

    A fact you CONSTANTLY ignore..

    He might be legit in his new role, but you have to be a lot less gullible than you have been so far - he has a lot to prove before his approval rating comes out of the toilet for the vast majority of regular, no BS Americans.

    His approval rating is at 57% and rising...

    You're predictions are just like all your other predictions...

    NOT COMING TO PASS... :D

    What danger is a 2-year-old Syrian orphan boy or girl to the U.S.?

    If we were talking about JUST a 2 year old, you would have a point.. But we're not, so you don't...

  56. [56] 
    michale wrote:

    I hope that someone has told the Orange One that all of these executive orders are subject to review by the courts (even the secret ones!), and that projects like his Pet Wall have to be funded by congress.

    Neil?? You want to tell Balthy how his childish and immature name-calling reflects poorly on him, not on Trump..

    Of course you don't.. That only applies when Left Wingers are called names..

    Balthy,

    Of course Trump knows it.. But, unlike Odumbo, whose executive orders were struck down by the courts, Trump's will pass the court test...

    All of the sudden, you don't like Executive Orders???

    WOW... WHO could have predicted that??

    Oh... wait.. :D

    Every good dictator likes to make it rain on his followers, and the Trumpettes are getting drenched with one goodie after another right now. Get fat on it, dudes, feast like there's no tomorrow...

    So, you concede that Trump is keeping all his promises... :D

    You can't win.... I have facts and reality on my side...

    What's he gonna do when he runs out of low hanging fruit? It's still a democracy, as inconvenient as that sounds...

    It wasn't inconvenient for Odumbo and the DumboCrats.. They just rolled right over it..

    But Trump has the American people behind him...

    Odumbo and the DumboCrats did not...

  57. [57] 
    neilm wrote:

    Trump beat THE BIGGEST and MEANEST Political Juggernaut in the history of the planet..

    You sound like a little girl at a Bieber concert.

  58. [58] 
    neilm wrote:

    But Trump has the American people behind him...

    Except that is an alternate fact, or we we non-BS types call it, a lie.

    Trump's approval rating is in the toilet. There were massive marches against him over the weekend. Even the right wing were complaining that there weren't safe spaces for their anti-abortion groups that wanted to march against Trump - that takes some going.

    Politics is a dirty game. When the Republican Party is done with Trump they will throw him out - he is already becoming a liability, but he will be a useful scapegoat for all the unhappy people for the next year or so as they put their weasely agenda in place (gut healthcare, tax breaks for the rich, cut corporate taxes, remove regulations their owners do't like, etc.).

  59. [59] 
    neilm wrote:

    What danger is a 2-year-old Syrian orphan boy or girl to the U.S.?

    If we were talking about JUST a 2 year old, you would have a point.. But we're not, so you don't...

    I am. I'm talking about an American family adopting a Syrian boy or girl - an under 5-year-old.

    Trump just stopped them from saving a kid's life or at a minimum giving a poor kid a chance.

    All for a chest-thumping opportunity.

    Are you happy about this?

  60. [60] 
    neilm wrote:

    His approval rating is at 57% and rising...

    Source.

  61. [61] 
    John M wrote:

    Michale wrote:

    "For example, weatherunderground dot com says the high today is going to be 77... That's a fact..

    An ALTERNATE of that fact can be found at weather dot com. Which says the high is going to be 82.. That an alternative to the first fact, but it's also a fact in itself..."

    NO, those are NOT FACTS. Those are FORECASTS, otherwise known as PREDICTIONS. A Fact would be AFTER the temperature has already occurred and has been MEASURED. ONLY THEN does it become a FACT, at which point there is NO SUCH THING AS AN ALTERNATIVE FACT, ANY OTHER temperature IS IMAGINARY.

    "It's a fact that President Trump's inauguration had, say, 2 million people...

    It's an alternative fact that President Trump's inauguration had 500,000 people..

    Both are factual.."

    NO THEY ARE NOT. ONLY ONE IS A FACT. THE OTHER IS A FALSEHOOD.

    You can believe the Earth is FLAT all you want, BUT THAT DOES NOT NEGATE REALITY and make it TRUE, just because it is what you want to believe.

  62. [62] 
    John M wrote:

    Michale wrote:

    "Of course, if one cherry picks the photos......

    For example, take a photo from the HEIGHT of Obama's inauguration and take a photo from WAY before Trump inauguration starts and viola.. You have "proof" that Obama's inauguration was bigger..."

    To assert that photos were cherry picked and taken at different times, ASSUMES FACTS NOT IN EVIDENCE. IN FACT, the two comparison photos were NOT taken way before Trump's inauguration had started. That has not even been credibly asserted by ANYONE.

    YOU are REALLY reaching here Michale to try to justify an untenable position on your part.

  63. [63] 
    michale wrote:

    You sound like a little girl at a Bieber concert.

    And you keep ignoring the point because it totally demolishes yer argument.. :D

    Except that is an alternate fact, or we we non-BS types call it, a lie.

    No, it's not. To BOTH of your points..

    Trump's approval rating is in the toilet.

    Trump's approval rating is higher than Obama's...

    There were massive marches against him over the weekend.

    Yea.. Foul-mouthed people making terrorist threats while dressed up as vaginas...

    Those are the people against Trump... :D

    When the Republican Party is done with Trump they will throw him out - he is already becoming a liability, but he will be a useful scapegoat for all the unhappy people for the next year or so as they put their weasely agenda in place (gut healthcare, tax breaks for the rich, cut corporate taxes, remove regulations their owners do't like, etc.).

    TRUMP IS TOAST prediction #745

    :D

  64. [64] 
    michale wrote:

    Trump just stopped them from saving a kid's life or at a minimum giving a poor kid a chance.

    Source??

    His approval rating is at 57% and rising...

    Source.

    The Rasmussen Reports daily Presidential Tracking Poll for Wednesday shows that 57% of Likely U.S. Voters approve of President Trump’s job performance. Forty-three percent (43%) disapprove.
    http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/trump_administration/prez_track_jan25

    Like I said, Trump's approval numbers are higher than Obama's... Shove THAT in yer pipe and smoke it.. :D

  65. [65] 
    michale wrote:

    JM,

    NO, those are NOT FACTS.

    It's the prediction that's the fact..

    NO THEY ARE NOT. ONLY ONE IS A FACT. THE OTHER IS A FALSEHOOD.

    Nope.. They are both Facts..

    One count was taken at the height of the inauguration, the other count was taken right at the beginning of the inauguration..

    BOTH counts are fact...

    To assert that photos were cherry picked and taken at different times, ASSUMES FACTS NOT IN EVIDENCE. IN FACT, the two comparison photos were NOT taken way before Trump's inauguration had started. That has not even been credibly asserted by ANYONE.

    I am not saying that THAT is what happened.. I am simply giving a logical and rational reason for the disparity in the photos..

    And given the FACT that we KNOW that the Leftist MSM will manipulate the facts and outright LIE to attack Trump, it's highly likely that this is EXACTLY what occurred..

    YOU are REALLY reaching here Michale to try to justify an untenable position on your part.

    Not at all.. I am simply bringing to the table something VERY sorely needed..

    Logic and rational thought amidst all the hysterical partisanship...

  66. [66] 
    michale wrote:

    Trump orders weekly publication of crimes committed by illegals in sanctuary cities

    “To better inform the public regarding the public safety threats associated with sanctuary jurisdictions, the Secretary shall utilize the Declined Detainer Outcome Report or its equivalent and, on a weekly basis, make public a comprehensive list of criminal actions committed by aliens and any jurisdiction that ignored or otherwise failed to honor any detainers with respect to such aliens,” the order reads.

    The same executive order “directs that federal funds be withheld from cities and counties that don’t cooperate with immigration officials,” Patch reports.
    http://www.theamericanmirror.com/trump-orders-weekly-list-crimes-committed-illegals-sanctuary-cities/

    I LOVE this President!!!!

    This is JUST what is needed...

  67. [67] 
    michale wrote:

    http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2017/01/26/cal-thomas-why-am-still-feeling-good-about-president-trump-so-far.html

    What he said...

    President Trump is a shoe-in for 8 years as POTUS! :D

    Hell, the President even has the UNIONS singing his praises!!!

    It's time to face reality, people... Your TRUMP IS TOAST predictions will NEVER come true... :D

  68. [68] 
    michale wrote:

    http://www.rollcall.com/news/politics/donald-trump-white-house-charm-offensive

    And, once again, the wisdom of President Trump shines thru...

    Odumbo had a phone and a pen and that is ALL Odumbo had.

    President Trump knows people.. Knows how to get along with people and to get people to do what he wants, not by threats or intimidation but rather by TALKING to them and getting to know them and making them decide to follow the President..

    And it works...

    When was the last time UNION LEADERS gave a GOP President such a glowing review???

    President Trump is going to be a president up there with the likes of Reagan and Lincoln and Washington...

  69. [69] 
    michale wrote:
  70. [70] 
    michale wrote:

    President Trump is going to be a president up there with the likes of Reagan and Lincoln and Washington...

    If all that hysterical fanboi-ism sounds familiar??

    It's what ya'all have been sounding like the last 8 years... :D

    It's not funny now that the cat's on the other foot, eh?!? :D

  71. [71] 
    altohone wrote:

    Troll
    47

    I've substantiated your trollery.
    Your claim that you're not a troll is the lie.

    Not only do you not know what a fact is, you don't know what a lie is.

    Claiming you don't need to defend Trump, and then insisting you're doing a great job at it?
    Another whopper. Proving yourself to be a liar again and again must get tedious.

    So, I take it you're passing on my offer?

    A

  72. [72] 
    altohone wrote:

    John M
    61

    You've got the troll is flailing nicely.

    First he simply repeats the claim about his nonsensical weather prediction "fact" you debunked, and then insists pure conjecture is also a "fact".

    Sort of puts all his "facts" into perspective.

    Pretty funny he's doing this under a column about facts.

    A

  73. [73] 
    michale wrote:

    Troll (Formerly Known As Asshole)

    I've substantiated your trollery.
    Your claim that you're not a troll is the lie.

    Not only do you not know what a fact is, you don't know what a lie is.

    Yea.. You spew that lie constantly..

    Yet you never have ANY proof..

    Ergo, you are lying...

    So, I take it you're passing on my offer?

    What offer?? All I read was mewling whimpers from a little boy who is incapable of having an adult and mature conversation...

    The only "offer" that is relevant here is for you to cease your childish and immature personal attack bullshit.. Then I will cease responding in kind..

    It's yer call, dickless... :D

    "Yes, it's true. This man has no dick"
    -Bill Murray, GHOSTBUSTERS

    :D heh

  74. [74] 
    nypoet22 wrote:

    give it a rest guys.

    alto, you started the name-calling this round, so you're most at fault. no one will take your arguments seriously if they sound like they originated on the schoolyard.

    michale, in all fairness your argument sometimes does fall into a bit of trollery, so please take it in good fun and don't retaliate.

    thanks for your support.

    JL (troll asshole #3)

  75. [75] 
    michale wrote:

    michale, in all fairness your argument sometimes does fall into a bit of trollery,

    Using what definition?? In other words, any definition of "troll" that applies to me applies to every one else as well..

    so please take it in good fun and don't retaliate.

    I tried that.. For months.. It didn't work.. He just kept coming and coming..

    So I had to take matters into my own hands...

    On the other hand, if Weigantians condemn his trollings as they happen, anything *I* do would simply be redundant so I wouldn't bother...

    Irregardless (where is STIG when ya need 'im?? :D) it will end when his trollings end...

    JL (troll asshole #3)

    "Haarddly"
    -Simon, DIE HARD 3: WITH A VENGEANCE

    I know it's annoying to ya'all and for that, I apologize.. But as you not, he started it so I have no choice but to finish it, temporarily painful as that may be for the rest of ya'all. For that, ya'all have my sincerest sympathies..

    :D

  76. [76] 
    michale wrote:

    . But as you not, he started it so I have no choice but to finish it, temporarily painful as that may be for the rest of ya'all. For that, ya'all have my sincerest sympathies..

    Grrrrr...

    But as you POINT OUT, he started it so I have no choice but to finish it, temporarily painful as that may be for the rest of ya'all. For that, ya'all have my sincerest sympathies..

    My bust... :D

  77. [77] 
    altohone wrote:

    Troll and nypoet22

    No, actually.

    The troll has memory problems, but in reality, he started it... originally, and in this round of lovely banter.
    I don't expect you to keep track though nypoet.

    The funny thing is, I called the troll out when he lied about me by lumping Don and I in with the Hillary Democrats here when he dang well knows he is wrong to do it.

    Apparently, he lost track of which lie I was seeking the apology for though.

    Not surprising.

    And, trolls denying they are trolls is just par for the course.
    A given.

    A

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