Friday Talking Points -- The Week We've All Been Waiting For

[ Posted Friday, August 4th, 2023 – 16:21 UTC ]

You'll have to excuse us for thinking that this week's momentous events were all the direct result of a lost opportunity. For all the people who are grumbling that Donald Trump should have been criminally charged with trying to subvert American democracy and the will of the people a lot earlier than now -- which, by the way, now includes Trump himself complaining that it should have happened earlier -- let's place the real blame where it belongs: on Mitch McConnell and all the other cowardly Republican senators who voted with Trump in his second impeachment trial. If McConnell and nine more GOP senators had stood firm and done the right thing back then -- mere days after the January 6th insurrection attempt -- then we simply would not be where we are now.

McConnell, weasel that he is, first delayed the start of the Senate trial (after the House impeached Trump in record time) so it wouldn't finish until after Trump left office, and then used his own inaction as an excuse not to do the right thing. He could have started the trial with plenty of time to go before Trump left office, but he didn't. Instead, he explained he was voting for Trump because people who had already left office shouldn't be subject to impeachment and removal. This, after refusing to start the trial while Trump was still in office -- a weaselly move if ever there was one.

But removal from office isn't the only penalty that can be imposed by impeachment and conviction. While an impeachment trial cannot levy punishments such as imprisonment or fines (which are reserved for the criminal justice system), it can impose political punishments, up to and including barring someone from ever holding public office again in this country. Any public office.

So just imagine what would have happened if Trump had been convicted in his second impeachment -- as he should have been. Seven senators from the president's own party voted "guilty" -- a number unprecedented in American history -- but what would have happened if seventeen of them had?

We would simply not be where we are now. Donald Trump would have been barred from ever seeking office again. He could not have run for president in 2024. He could not have even run for dogcatcher. The Republican field might have wound up being a normal one, instead of being filled with "Mini-Me" Trumps. Trump might have faded into the political background, or just decided to wield influence as a Republican "kingmaker." Or maybe Donald Trump Junior or Ivanka would have run in daddy's place (one never knows). On the other side of the aisle, President Joe Biden might have even decided to step down after one term and thrown the Democratic field open as well. But no matter who was running, the nation would not have to worry about facing the menace of Trump being re-elected and spreading more chaos.

It is always nice to play "What if?" And it's been running through the back of our mind all week long. What if Donald Trump had just faded away? What if people had all but forgotten his name by now?

But of course we don't live in Fantasyland. We live in reality. Well, some of us do. Which brings us to this historic week.

Donald Trump can now accurately be called "the only thrice-indicted ex-president." And this one was the big one. As we wrote yesterday, an ex-president being accused in a court of law of trying to overthrow an American presidential election has, thankfully, never happened before. It has never happened before because up to Trump all of our other presidents have respected the will of the people. If they lost, they gracefully accepted the fact. If it was close and there were valid questions or objections, then lawsuits were filed, rulings were issued, and then the losing party gracefully accepted the result. Never before has a loser filed over 60 lawsuits, lost them all, and then still insisted that he had won (without a shred of actual evidence to back the claim up). Never before has a president attempted a coup by force. Donald Trump did all of that right before everyone's eyes. We all saw it. Very little of it was hidden -- most of it was right out in the open. "Fake electors" committed fraud by signing documents asserting things that were not true. They sent these documents to Congress to perpetrate a fraud on the American people. They wanted their Fantasyland result of the election declared valid over the actual reality of the situation. And they were directed to do all of this by a sitting president of the United States. Right out in the open. And it led to the worst violence against the United States Capitol in 200 years.

So 200 years from now (assuming America is still a going concern) students will read their history books and learn about this period in American history. And you know what? Donald Trump being indicted for stealing national security documents and for paying off an adult film personality will be mere footnotes. Whether Trump is ultimately found guilty or not on these charges isn't going to be the one thing that history remembers about this period. Instead it will be the outcome of the case that was filed this week -- and, quite possibly, the case yet to be filed against Trump in Georgia (which will deal with Trump's attempts to steal the election at the state level).

This is why we had to reluctantly agree with a very awkward phrase, after coming across it elsewhere. Because what began this week is going to wind up being the "Trial of the Semiquincentennial" in American history. The most important court case in 250 years, in other words.

The other two cases filed against Trump have more counts to them. This week Trump was only charged with four crimes: conspiracy to defraud the United States, obstruction of an official proceeding (and conspiracy to obstruct, as a separate count), and conspiracy to deny people from freely exercising their constitutional right to vote and to have their votes accurately counted. If convicted on all charges Trump faces up to 55 years in prison for these four counts alone (all told, Trump has now been charged with 78 felonies which add up to a maximum term of a whopping 641 years in prison).

And the icing on the cake, for those who have been waiting a very long time to see this happen: Trump drew possibly the toughest judge in D.C., and will be facing a jury of D.C. residents. This is the same judge who, when ruling that the House January 6th Committee could have access to Trump's White House files, wrote: "Presidents are not kings, and Plaintiff is not President." This makes it the exact opposite of the case filed in Florida, where Trump pulled (by the luck of the draw) possibly the friendliest judge possible (one he appointed, of course) and will be facing a very Republican South Florida jury pool. But in the new case, Trump will now make a motion to move the venue to someplace other than D.C. -- and this motion will fail.

The real question is how speedy the trial will be. Will it happen before the election? Will it happen before the primary season? Or will Trump prove to be the master of legal delays and successfully push it all out after the 2024 election? These are crucial questions, for the sake of American democracy.

Many in the Republican Party now seem to want everyone to "move on" from the 2020 election and the January 6th insurrection attempt. "Let's talk about the future rather than rehashing old news," they say. To which we say: They had their chance to do just that -- just ask Mitch and any other Republican who was in the Senate and didn't vote to convict Trump in his second impeachment trial.

This week's indictment will guarantee that all of it will be a central subject to the 2024 presidential race, in one way or another. Already it has forced Mike Pence into taking a stand against Trump (something he's been rather reluctant to do on any other subject than January 6th). Here's just one quote from Pence this week: "[President Donald Trump was] surrounded by a group of crackpot lawyers that kept telling him what his itching ears wanted to hear." Ouch.

Also from Pence this week:

Anyone who puts themselves over the Constitution should never be the president. Anyone who asks anyone else to put themselves over their oaths to the Constitution shouldn't be president again. I don't know whether the government can make a case beyond a reasonable doubt of illegal conduct here. Our country is more important than any one man, and our Constitution is more important than any one man's career.

Rather astonishingly, Pence also immediately rolled out campaign merchandise with a quote (that Trump said about Pence) from the indictment, when Trump was trying to cajole Pence into unconstitutionally helping him overthrow a free and fair election. Trump complained when Pence refused: "You're too honest." Maybe the "Too Honest" merchandise will get Pence over the donor threshold for the first GOP debate, who knows?

Mike Pence is going to wind up being the star witness against Trump, when this case goes to trial. Not only can he report exactly what Trump said to him, but he took "contemporaenous notes" about meetings with Trump -- which we are absolutely positive will be introduced as evidence in Trump's trial.

In other "Trump legal woes" news, Trump's multimillion-dollar case against CNN (Trump sued because he was miffed when they called his Big Lie a big lie) was laughed out of court this week -- by a Trump-appointed judge. Trump also lost another one of his cases in Georgia which is trying to somehow head his upcoming indictment off at the pass. It was revealed in campaign filings this week that Trump's super PAC has spent over $40 million on legal fees just in the first six months of this year alone -- and that they spent more on lawyers last quarter than they had actually raised. And, just in case all the other legal news this week didn't disgust you, in the case of the woman suing Rudy Giuliani for sexual misconduct (among other things), transcripts of audio recordings were released, and they show precisely how loathsome Giuliani truly is -- if you've got the stomach for it.

But all of that -- and all the rest of the political news of the week -- was small potatoes compared to Donald Trump finally facing the legal music for his Big Lie and his attempts to steal an American presidential election. The first two indictments weren't central to the crime Trump attempted against the American people and the U.S. Constitution. But, as they say, the third time's the charm.


Most Impressive Democrat Of The Week

Sadly, this week's award must be presented posthumously.

The Lieutenant Governor of New Jersey passed away this week. Sheila Y. Oliver was the first Black woman to hold statewide office in New Jersey, and only the second Black woman in the history of the United States to have lead a state-level legislative body, as speaker of the New Jersey state general assembly. This week, tragically, Lieutenant Governor Oliver was taken to the hospital and passed away soon after.

This coincidentally happened while the governor was out of state, so Sheila was serving as Acting Governor Oliver at the time of her death. She had reached the highest office in the state, which certainly seems to qualify as going out on top.

Oliver, a self-described "Jersey Girl," was a pioneering, strong woman in Garden State politics. She leaves behind a very impressive legacy, which is why we had to add to it with this week's Most Impressive Democrat Of The Week.

Requiescat In Pace, Acting Governor Oliver. You will be missed.

[Lieutenant Governor Sheila Oliver will soon no longer have a state website, so you'll have to search out her personal online presence if you'd like to leave a message of condolence.]


Most Disappointing Democrat Of The Week

What with the momentous news about Donald Trump this week, no Democrat disappointed us at all. Perhaps we were just so focused on the center ring that we missed something? Well, feel free to make your own suggestions if you feel like it, down in the comments. But for now, the Most Disappointing Democrat Of The Week award is going back on the shelf for another week.


Friday Talking Points

Volume 717 (8/4/23)

We've got a theme this week for our talking points. Which really should come as no mystery, after the week that was. Republicans are desperately trying to throw sand in everyone's eyes and somehow offer up some sort of half-assed defense of what we all know Trump did. Don't let them get away with it. Until some Republican starts thrashing Trump in the polling, he is still very much a danger to this country. So now is the time to pile on!


   Accused felon

Start calling Trump what he now is, all the time.

"This presidential election may be between a sitting president and an accused felon. The election will be between a man who believes in law and order and whose son served in the military and a man who is facing 78 felony counts (so far) and who praises violent insurrectionists who attacked police officers. That's a pretty easy choice to make."


   Of course he's guilty

Treat it as an accomplished fact.

"Of course Donald Trump is guilty. We all saw it with our own eyes! All the election lies he told, all the fake electors, a frenzied mob chanting "Hang Mike Pence!" with a gallows at the ready outside. There's no real defense for any of it, and we all saw it all right before our own eyes. It's just a matter of time before a jury agrees and finds him officially guilty."


   Trump's top lawman

He's got a book to sell, so Bill Barr is conveniently all over the airwaves. So use that!

"Even Trump's own attorney general -- Trump's very own top lawman -- thinks Trump should have been charged. Here's what Bill Barr has to say about the indictment:"

As a legal matter, I don’t see a problem with the indictment. I think that it's not an abuse. The Department of Justice is not acting to weaponize the department by proceeding against the [former] president for a conspiracy to subvert the electoral process.

"This is the guy who ran the Department of Justice for Trump. That's what he thinks about it. So to all those Republicans whining about how unfair it all is, I give you Bill Barr, in his own words."


   Lock up all the fake electors, too

We wrote about this earlier this week, and since that writing the state of Michigan has also brought charges against one other individual as well.

"I hope all the other states where it happened follow Michigan's lead and prosecute all the fake electors for election fraud. These people tried to steal an election, they should be punished. They tried to deny Americans the right to vote and the right to have their vote counted, just like Trump. They should face felony charges for doing so, just like Trump."


   Bad idea then, bad idea now

For all the "Oh, let's leave Trump alone, let's all just move on" people.

"I am astonished that some are saying that Trump should somehow be immune from criminal charges because it would be 'divisive' for the country, and that we should all just give him a free pass for all the criminal activity he's been accused of. Really? Here's a poignant quote (in hindsight) from an anonymous Republican official to the Washington Post, right when Trump started whining about his Big Lie after the 2020 election:"

What is the downside for humoring him for this little bit of time? No one seriously thinks the results will change. He went golfing this weekend. It's not like he's plotting how to prevent Joe Biden from taking power on Jan. 20. He's tweeting about filing some lawsuits, those lawsuits will fail, then he'll tweet some more about how the election was stolen, and then he'll leave.

"The price of doing nothing is allowing Trump to do whatever he wants. Which he will do. The downside for 'humoring' Trump on his Big Lie has already been horrific. The downside of letting him get away with it all could be the death knell for American democracy."


   I blame Mitch

Returning to our initial point this week....

"You know who I blame for the constitutional mess we are all in now? Mitch McConnell. Mitch knew Trump was responsible for January 6th. He could have held the Senate trial for Trump's second impeachment before Trump left office. And if Mitch had voted to convict Trump in the Senate, I bet nine more Republican senators would have felt free to do so as well -- which would have meant 67 'guilty' votes. And not only would Trump have been unceremoniously removed from office a few days early, but Donald Trump would now be permanently barred from seeking or holding office ever again. Any office. And now Trump might still be facing lots of felony charges, but constitutionally it wouldn't matter since he could never be president again for the rest of his life. So yeah, I blame Mitch for this mess."


   Since it annoys him so much...

This was reported from the arraignment. And it's so easy to do!

"Right after Trump's lawyer introduced him to the court as, quote, President Trump, unquote, the judge addressed him with the only title he now deserves: 'Mister Trump.' Apparently, this bugged him no end. So from now on whenever I say his name I will be sure to say it as Mister Trump -- just because we all now know it annoys him so much."

-- Chris Weigant


Follow Chris on Twitter: @ChrisWeigant

Cross-posted at: Democratic Underground


80 Comments on “Friday Talking Points -- The Week We've All Been Waiting For”

  1. [1] 
    Elizabeth Miller wrote:

    " ... On the other side of the aisle, President Joe Biden might have even decided to step down after one term and thrown the Democratic field open as well [if Trump had been convicted at his second impeachment and barred from holding public office]."

    Heh. Seriously, I doubt that Biden would have ever decided such a thing. And, why the Hell should he!?

  2. [2] 
    Elizabeth Miller wrote:

    Of course, the only thing that would be worse than Biden deciding not to run for re-election would be losing to Trump in 2024. That really would be The End.

  3. [3] 
    Kick wrote:


    But in the new case, Trump will now make a motion to move the venue to someplace other than D.C. -- and this motion will fail.

    The perpetually aggrieved Righties are whining incessantly that Defendant Donald can't get a fair trial in D.C., the same BS that multiple of the other January 6 Defendants have claimed who tried and failed to get a change of venue from the place where they committed their crime(s).

    Public Service Announcement

    If you feel like you cannot get a fair jury trial for committing crime(s) in Washington, DC, forget about a small town, you best not try that in a federal district; however, if you do get indicted by the United States District Court for the District of Columbia for [allegedly] perpetrating crime(s), simply waive a trial by jury, choose a bench trial wherein you argue your charge(s) before the bench and throw yourself on the mercy of the Court.

    Thoughts to ponder. :)

  4. [4] 
    Kick wrote:


    The real question is how speedy the trial will be.

    Oh, Magic 8 Ball!

    Will it happen before the election?

    Most likely.

    Will it happen before the primary season?

    Outlook not so good.

    Or will Trump prove to be the master of legal delays and successfully push it all out after the 2024 election?

    Very doubtful.

    These are crucial questions, for the sake of American democracy.

    Hence, the Magic 8 Ball. :)

  5. [5] 
    MtnCaddy wrote:


    I predict that Joe will trounce TFG bigly and resign the office after two years. This will allow Kamala to show Murica that a girl is just as good as a boy.

  6. [6] 
    MtnCaddy wrote:


    I’m as prone to hand-wringing as all my Fellow Travelers, okay?

    But Joe crushed it in 2020 and with each passing day Trump is losing any chance at winning the swing voters needed to be re-elected. TFG NEVER hit 50% approval rating and that’s before Covid and J6. So where is he going to find the votes to win the general?

    I predict epic bloodbath next year. Yes, we can’t be complacent and we must bust ass to get the job done but the good guys in Murica are energized against the threat that we faced and will face.

  7. [7] 
    Elizabeth Miller wrote:

    I love your optimism, Caddy!

  8. [8] 
    MtnCaddy wrote:


    You picked the right headline for this Friday’s column and I want you to know that I may have enjoyed reading it almost as much as I suspect you had writing it. I get the impression that quite a bit of this simply flowed out of you with a minimum of friction. Having said that I find that writing well is a struggle. I’m an endless font of words, trust me. It’s the cutting out and consolidation of words and concepts that most challenges me. Good job, Amigo!

    And nice to see you Kick — you and Elizabeth are most intriguing!

  9. [9] 
    MtnCaddy wrote:

    Thanks Elizabeth. Please know that I’m seriously stressed that because fucking #MoscowMitch blew it , there’s a small but real chance that Trump could win. But this is NOT 2016 which HAD to break EXACTLY as it did for Hillary to lose. And after all, Corporatist Hillary did kinda suck, no? With each passing year I think lesser and lesser about Slick Willy and Obama.

    In fact FYI I almost voted for Jill Stein in 2016 and I knew that TFG’s upset win would energize the Democratic Wing of the Democratic Party.

    I ignore the polling on Dark Brandon because it wasn’t reflected in the 2022 election results. Joe’s results in his first midterm in office was more successful than any President since Saint Ronnie? The polls are vastly overrated, it seems.

  10. [10] 
    MtnCaddy wrote:

    Hey Elizabeth, would you like to crank up the Sunday Evening Canadian Music Appreciation Festival sometime soon? You know, a one-off to celebrate a decent week?

    Also, is that your blonde Facebook profile? If so I’ll send you a friend request. FB simply eats too many hours (like Twitter) but it’d be cool to interact with you on that platform. No worries if you’re not into it, K?

  11. [11] 
    Elizabeth Miller wrote:

    That was my original FB profile ... but, now the pic is of a different blonde - a big blonde street fighter who was the lead vocalist for my all-time favourite band. Please do send me a friend request!!!!

  12. [12] 
    Elizabeth Miller wrote:

    Hey Caddy ... got any ideas for Sunday night? I miss those fun music nights.

  13. [13] 
    italyrusty wrote:

    Talk about a missed opportunity: zero talking points noted that the U.S. government's credit rating has suffered only twice, both times with a GOP-controlled Congress.

    "Republicans INCREASE the government's deficit with their political games" perhaps?

    'Fitch Ratings has downgraded the United States government’s credit rating, citing ... a “steady deterioration in standards of governance” over the past two decades.
    It’s only the second time in the nation’s history that its credit rating has been cut. In 2011, the ratings agency Standard & Poor’s stripped the U.S. of its prize AAA rating after a prolonged fight over the government’s borrowing limit. The Government Accountability Office, in a 2012 report, estimated that the 2011 budget standoff raised Treasury’s borrowing costs by $1.3 billion that year.'

  14. [14] 
    italyrusty wrote:

    Senator Patty Murray deserves at least an honorable mention for MIDOW. I know it's not 'sexy', but she is a terrific example of a Democrat who is serious about governing.
    '“For the first time in five years, this committee finished passing all twelve individual appropriations bills with overwhelming bipartisan votes, under incredibly tough circumstances—and all before the end of July. When we said we would return this committee to regular order, we meant it—this is a big deal...."'

  15. [15] 
    italyrusty wrote:

    The two Tennessee state legislators who were expelled *should have* received MIDOW this week.
    'State Rep. Justin Jones beat Republican candidate Laura Nelson, and state Rep. Justin Pearson beat independent candidate Jeff Johnston.

    The two first-term lawmakers were expelled in April after they joined demonstrators in calling for stronger gun control following a Nashville school shooting that left three children and three adults dead.'

  16. [16] 
    italyrusty wrote:

    Also nominees for at least an honorable mention: Rep Torres, Sen. Smith, Rep. Porter and others for keeping Alito's feet to the fire - and in the public discussion about the corrupt Supremes.
    '“Congress has the authority to set the Supreme Court’s budget and to infinitely expand the high court. But, according to Justice Alito, Congress cannot require SCOTUS to have a code of ethics like the rest of the federal government,” Rep. Ritchie Torres (D-N.Y.) wrote on X, the platform formerly known as Twitter, on Saturday. “Does that sound remotely logical?”
    Several Democrats with legal backgrounds were quick to question Alito’s reasoning that Congress had no ability to regulate the Supreme Court.

    “This view is more than controversial; it’s incorrect,” Rep. Katie Porter (D-Calif.) posted on X. “As a government official, I welcome the American people holding me accountable—why doesn’t Justice Alito?”'

  17. [17] 
    italyrusty wrote:

    Re: New Jersey's Lt Governor Sheila Oliver

    Forgive me if it seems heartless to say: dying doesn't make one 'impressive' that week.
    For those interested in learning more about her impressive PAST accomplishments (which oddly Chris NEVER mentioned in a single FTP column that I recall):

  18. [18] 
    Kick wrote:


    Talk about a missed opportunity: zero talking points noted that the U.S. government's credit rating has suffered only twice, both times with a GOP-controlled Congress.

    And also both times with a President of the United States that was a Democrat and also both times with Biden as a major player in the administration... so not exactly an optimal talking point with which to criticize your political opponent when it can easily be thrown right back in your face.

    When I'm reading your seemingly requisite weekly rants against Chris and his FTPs, I find myself frequently wondering if you actually understand the purpose of talking points. If the political opponent to which you're talking can easily turn your point back on you... not a good talking point. If your opponents' response is easily recognizable as total fabrication or it's deflection like "but, but, Hillary" and/or "but, but, Hunter Biden's laptop" or all manner of other whataboutism... good talking point. :)

  19. [19] 
    Elizabeth Miller wrote:


    Talk about a missed opportunity: zero talking points noted that the U.S. government's credit rating has suffered only twice, both times with a GOP-controlled Congress.

    Yes, that Fitch downgrade was unsurprising. But, the steady deterioration in standards of governance that they cite dates back well more than two decades to at least David Stockman and the Reagan era when the Republican cult of economic failure finds its roots.

    A talking point about this is tricky business, to be sure. But, it can be done. And, Chris is certainly the one who could do it!

    Democratic administrations are not blameless, after all - not in the deterioration of standards of governance nor in the failure to change the mistaken narrative that Republicans are the better stewards of the economy.

    Biden is the Democratic president who has come the closest to rectifying this situation but, sadly, I am sure he won't get it done. For many reasons - and his age ain't one of them. Ahem.

    It has taken decades for the false Republican narrative to take shape and it will take as long to correct it, if that is even possible, given the state of the electorate.

    As for the point you've read about backfiring talking points - well, that is always possible. But, there are also ways to prevent that and a big part of the answer lies in straightforward communication and a laser focus on policy.

    You know who was brilliant at laying out the effect of the Republican cult of economic failure on the US economy? Former treasury secretary Timothy Geithner, that's who! Yeah, seriously! He nailed the talking point at an event held by the Centre For American Progress back during the Obama administration.

    He's also the guy who was very largely responsible for saving Main Street and steering the US economy out of great peril in the aftermath of the financial crisis that began in 2008/09. Unfortunately, and despite all of his heroic efforts, he is still pretty radioactive as far as the average ill-informed voter is concerned and therefore not the greatest messenger even though he could be one of the best!

  20. [20] 
    C. R. Stucki wrote:

    kICK [18]

    Yeah, it also occured to me that the oxidized Italian is on pretty shaky ground there on his credit rating thing, and it further ilustrates the proclivity of Dems to give credit for absolutely every last good thing that happens during a Dem president's admin to him, while all the bad stuff is somebody else's doing.

  21. [21] 
    Elizabeth Miller wrote:


    That makes crafting a talking point about the Republican cult of economic failure a complicated proposition but hardly impossible.

  22. [22] 
    nypoet22 wrote:

    The cult of economic failure has never been all Republicans, nor only Republicans.

  23. [23] 
    Elizabeth Miller wrote:


    I see your point and, I've made it myself ... on more than one occasion. Ahem.

    I once wrote in these pages that Dems need to own up to their part of the failure if they are going to have any hope of changing the false Republican narrative that Republicans have the best pro-growth tax and fiscal policies. Republicans most decidedly do not.

    From your comment and from what I know about Democrats' ability to set any narrative, let alone the correct one, and from what I know about the collective knowledge of the electorate, I do not anticipate that an effective talking point on the economy will ever be implemented by Democrats.

    And, mark my words ... if Republicans win the WH next November, the narrative will be that voters were thinking about the economy - theirs and that of the country. And, they will have, once again, voted against their own economic interests, not to mention against any number of their other interests.

    And, the cycle will continue.

    What's your remedy?

  24. [24] 
    Elizabeth Miller wrote:
  25. [25] 
    Elizabeth Miller wrote:

    My favourite Biden quote:

    "No US foreign policy can be long sustained without the informed consent of the American people."

  26. [26] 
    Elizabeth Miller wrote:


    I was just reading about the Republican strategy Re. global boiling and it is familiar: Drill baby, drill!

    Of course, just like with economic policy, the Democrats aren't doing all that needs to be done, either, on environmental policy. But, also just like the economy, there is one party that doesn't care about climate change and one that is at least doing something right.

    Given the great disparity between the two parties on these two critical issues, it shouldn't be too hard to formulate effective talking points that distinguish one party from the other without inviting blowback that hits its mark. Of course, on both issues, Democrats would necessarily have to come clean on their own shortcomings.

  27. [27] 
    MtnCaddy wrote:


    Yeah, I miss those Sunday nights, too. What do you say that we try out a no theme Sunday? We can shoot selections back and forth — FYI I never heard of Prism before making your acquaintance here in Weigantia — so, why not? I mean, come on, you surely must get a tune stuck in your head, sometimes for days.

    Would you be surprised if I confided that Weigantia really helped me get through the social isolation that Covid caused? Even with Don and Michale it was my cool online family aaand even if we’ll never agree about Ukraine I still aim to meet your blonde/or whatever version over coffee/wine in Vancouver.

  28. [28] 
    nypoet22 wrote:


    argumentum ad populum

    my suggestion would be for republicans (as well as allegedly "conservative" dems and indies) to get a better fiscal policy, like perhaps one that's actually conservative rather than mathematically impossible - and for anyone else with more than half a brain to tell them so. as a matter of fact, i believe it was george h.w. bush (41) who called it "voodoo economics" was he a democrat?


  29. [29] 
    nypoet22 wrote:

    actually i think that IS a better term: the death cult of voodoo economics

  30. [30] 
    italyrusty wrote:

    Kick [3]:

    The Magic 8-Ball idea was hysterically funny. Thank you.

    (I didn't comment yesterday because I think I used up my daily quota, ha ha!)

  31. [31] 
    Elizabeth Miller wrote:


    No theme sounds good to me. Just like you, this place helped me through the pandemic lockdowns, too. Not sure how I'd have managed without it. In fact, it was because of the lockdowns that I became immersed in music. Music had always been a part of my life but it has become huge over the last few years. It was during this time that I opened up a FB account for the first time - never would have thought I'd ever do that! I have used it primarily to chat about music and discover new music. My favourite FB group is Vancouver Rock Groups from the 60s to 80s and, aside from this place, it is THE best place on the internet(s)! By the way, still waiting for that friend request - how ever did you find me there!?

  32. [32] 
    nypoet22 wrote:

    the only fb account i keep is under my granddad's name

  33. [33] 
    Elizabeth Miller wrote:


    actually i think that IS a better term: the death cult of voodoo economics

    Indeed. But, don't we need to tie that to Republican policy, notwithstanding who coined the term?

    Hence, the Republican cult of voodoo economics ... whatever will change the notion in most peoples' heads - including here in my country - that says Republicans (perhaps, read: conservatives?? - sounds so quaint, nowadays...) are the best stewards of the economy.

    All the polls I have come across still say that a majority of Americans think Republicans, generally speaking, have better economic policies!

    I've never been a fan of "talking points" but, my time here has begun to change my mind about that. An effective talking point that begins to change how most voters think about what party is best for the economy would be a good start, no?

  34. [34] 
    MtnCaddy wrote:


    And also both times with a President of the United States that was a Democrat and also both times with Biden as a major player in the administration... so not exactly an optimal talking point with which to criticize your political opponent when it can easily be thrown right back in your face.

    By this logic if you were in two auto accidents and both times the other party was at fault, YOU are the common denominator, the one person who was present at both accidents. Does that make you a bad driver?

  35. [35] 
    MtnCaddy wrote:

    I just don’t like the Republican cult of economic failure.

    While technically correct it doesn’t flow very well, it’s kind of clunky. Also, reachable voters who usually vote red might be a little sensitive about the word “cult” nowadays so it may be more off putting than persuasive.

    I like Reaganomics is for the already wealthy — Bidenomics is for the REST of us!

    Bidenomics is more fair than Reaganomics!

  36. [36] 
    MtnCaddy wrote:

    Or simply

    Bidenomics — yes! Reaganomics — no!

  37. [37] 
    Elizabeth Miller wrote:

    I was just going to ask if you're still around ... and will you be later on for the festivities?

  38. [38] 
    Elizabeth Miller wrote:

    Also, reachable voters who usually vote red might be a little sensitive about the word “cult” nowadays so it may be more off putting than persuasive.

    That makes a lot of sense. Still think the TP needs to somehow dispel the myth that Republicans are the better stewards of the economy.

  39. [39] 
    Elizabeth Miller wrote:

    Where's Timothy Geithner when you need him!? :)

  40. [40] 
    Elizabeth Miller wrote:

    Well, back by popular demand, ahem ... welcome, everyone, to the CW Sunday Night Music Festival and Dance Party!

    No theme this evening ... just play what you feel!

    I'll start things off with a song that is, arguably and without any logical fallacies on or off the panda list, the best song ever!

    Boston - More Than A Feeling

  41. [41] 
    Elizabeth Miller wrote:

    Here is More Than A Feeling, again, this time without the guitars, focusing in on the amazing voice of Brad Delp ...

  42. [42] 
    Elizabeth Miller wrote:

    Because nothing compares to ... this Weigantia crowd, here is tribute to Sinead O'Connor as she covers Prince's song, Nothing Compares 2 u.

    First up, the Prince original followed by Sinead's version and, then a very interesting analysis video of Sinead's cover by Fil from Wings of Pegasus where he explains how Sinead transformed Prince's original through chord changes ...
    Prince - Nothing Compares 2 U

    Sinead O'Connor -Nothing Compares 2 U

    Wings of Pegasus Analysis Video - Sinead O'Connor covering Prince

  43. [43] 
    Elizabeth Miller wrote:

    In another tribute tonight, this time to Tony Bennett singing a Stevie Wonder song with Stevie in the audience!

    Tony Bennett - For Once In My Life (Songs in the Key of Life)

    Wings of Pegasus Analysis Video - Tony Bennett at 88 was STILL a MASTER at work

  44. [44] 
    MtnCaddy wrote:


    Naw, I’d nominate Good Vibrations or perhaps Suite for Judy Blue Eyes as the greatest pop song ever.

  45. [45] 
    MtnCaddy wrote:


    That Prince original is interesting!

  46. [46] 
    Elizabeth Miller wrote:

    More sad news with the passing of an original (and my favourite) Eagle, Randy Meisner ...

    Eagles BBC '73

    Eagles - Take It To The Limit (1977)

  47. [47] 
    MtnCaddy wrote:

    These two songs have dominated my 24/7/365 inner juke box going back to last year. Every waking moment of my life there’s been a tune running through my head. I think it’s a blessing.

    Andelman’s Yard by Mike Gordon of Phish.

    The Endless Enigma by Emerson, Lake and Palmer.

  48. [48] 
    MtnCaddy wrote:

    You’ve likely noticed that I like looong songs. I have a background in piano at six and violin at eight. My late Mother was a total classical music snob and it likely rubbed off on me — I like complicated and long compositions.

    Like, say, Supper’s Ready by Peter Gabriel-era Genesis. It clocks in at 23:06.

  49. [49] 
    Elizabeth Miller wrote:

    Non-brief songs. I love them, too ... naturally!

  50. [50] 
    MtnCaddy wrote:

    Elizabeth I really appreciate you posting the tracks with their names. It’s a little more hassle but it lets Weigantians go back and play some good music.

  51. [51] 
    MtnCaddy wrote:

    Yup, that sure ain’t your mug on your Facebook page. I liked the blonde picture better. Taras STRATELAK just sent you a Friend request…

  52. [52] 
    MtnCaddy wrote:

    Hey, what would you think about doing a Sunday Evening theme of singles only? You remember 45-r.p.m. records we listened to on AM radio, right? Canadian station CKLW ruled Detroit! It was the highest wattage radio station in North America, 50,000 watts if memory serves.

  53. [53] 
    MtnCaddy wrote:

    Another theme idea is a non-white artist theme. Y’all got black folk in Canadian, right?

  54. [54] 
    Elizabeth Miller wrote:

    One of my all-time favourite bands is the Guess Who, from Winnipeg, Manitoba. During a gig in my hometown of Kitchener-Waterloo they were taking a break and Randy Bachman was tuning his guitar while Burton Cummings was off looking at a, ah, record collection in the trunk of some guys car in the parking lot. Ahem.

    Anyway, while Randy was tuning his guitar he stumbled onto a riff that perked up the audience and band members. They called Burton back in and said, hurry man, we don't want to forget this riff - just sing some words to it, any words ... and American Woman was born ... and put my hometown on the map, sort of. :)

    Anyway, here is American Woman - all 14 minutes of it! A version of this video has already been removed from Youtube so watch this one while you can!

    Guess Who - American Woman (2000!)

    And, then, another Fil analysis video ...

    Wings of Pegasus Analysis - American Woman

  55. [55] 
    Elizabeth Miller wrote:

    Friend request happily accepted! :)

  56. [56] 
    MtnCaddy wrote:

    Alas, I gotta check Elizabeth, but I enjoyed this and I hope you’re up for another one. Another theme idea for you to consider would be current events, politics and/or advocacy music.

    Such as Ball of Confusion by the Temptations.

  57. [57] 
    Elizabeth Miller wrote:

    Another theme idea is a non-white artist theme. Y’all got black folk in Canadian, right?

    Absolutely! And, we have some indigenous artists, too!

  58. [58] 
    Elizabeth Miller wrote:

    A non-white theme night would be great - a lot of Black Canadian and First Nations singer-songwriters to cover - but not limited to Canada, eh?

  59. [59] 
    Elizabeth Miller wrote:

    I gotta check Elizabeth, but I enjoyed this and I hope you’re up for another one. Another theme idea for you to consider would be current events, politics and/or advocacy music.

    I like it! Have a great rest of the evening ...

  60. [60] 
    MtnCaddy wrote:


    Yay! I normally don’t spend much time on Facebook but now that we’re friends I just might check in more often. Years ago I used to bag on my BFF because he liked FB so much. Then one day I checked it out and spent…20 hours straight on it. Got up to pee and that’s about it.

  61. [61] 
    MtnCaddy wrote:


    Thanks, Gurl you have a good one as well! :D

  62. [62] 
    Elizabeth Miller wrote:

    FB is great place to chat about music ... with musicians and with fellow fans. Politics? Not so much. Heh.

  63. [63] 
    Elizabeth Miller wrote:


    That link doesn't work. Hope this is the one you were referring to ...

    The Temptations - Ball of Confusion

  64. [64] 
    Elizabeth Miller wrote:


    Every waking moment of my life there’s been a tune running through my head. I think it’s a blessing.

    Indeed, it is!

  65. [65] 
    nypoet22 wrote:
  66. [66] 
    Elizabeth Miller wrote:

    Nice selections tonight, Caddy - I'm going to have to get into some more ELP ...

  67. [67] 
    Elizabeth Miller wrote:

    Hey Joshua! Nice one ...

  68. [68] 
    nypoet22 wrote:

    am i too late to the party?

  69. [69] 
    Elizabeth Miller wrote:

    No, not at all.

    What else have you got!?

  70. [70] 
    nypoet22 wrote:

    well, I'm sure you've heard it sometime in the past (well i'm sure liz has, caddy i'm not certain), but i'm bringing it back, since it's mine.

    late song blues

    courtesy of yours truly

  71. [71] 
    Elizabeth Miller wrote:

    I'm pretty sure I heard that one sometime in the past ... but, wow, Joshua ... I didn't know (or remember) that you have a Youtube channel - I just spiked the likes and subscribed!!!

    Nice shots there ... and they match up well enough with the song. :)

  72. [72] 
    nypoet22 wrote:

    i forget too sometimes. here's dar williams' calling the moon

  73. [73] 
    Elizabeth Miller wrote:

    Now, THAT is a beautiful song. You will have to play more of her and of her collaborations ... just quickly read about the Cry Cry Cry album of covers. Do you have that one?

  74. [74] 
    nypoet22 wrote:

    yes, somewhere...

  75. [75] 
    Elizabeth Miller wrote:

    You can play some of it for our next little shindig. G'nite and pleasant dreams ...

  76. [76] 
    nypoet22 wrote:

    here's another of their great collaborations, revisited more or less unplugged.

    ballad of mary magdalen

  77. [77] 
    nypoet22 wrote:

    i liked to cover that one myself...

  78. [78] 
    Elizabeth Miller wrote:

    A truly wonderful song to end on, Joshua. But, I would love to hear your cover, some time. Apologies in advance if you have already played it here before - I have an awful memory.

  79. [79] 
    nypoet22 wrote:

    no, i don't believe i've ever recorded that. thank you for the vote of confidence though. funny thing, i've heard a number of jewish people ask richard shindell about the spot-on cultural imagery, and it turns out some of it was completely accidental. funny, the way the muses work.

  80. [80] 
    Elizabeth Miller wrote:


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