Trump's Erratic Threaten-Retreat-Threaten-Retreat Cycle
We now live in the world of Trumponomics, which might be defined as: "It's like Groundhog Day, except every day." I should specify that this is decidedly not in the sense of the movie of the same name -- where exactly the same things happen every day -- but rather in the sense that each and every day the entire world waits to see which side of the bed Donald Trump got up on: whether he's going to say something so threatening to the economy's future that the stock markets panic, or whether he's going to walk back some previous stupid comment and the stock market will recover a little bit.
The last few days have been somewhat hopeful, since it seems that some people still do have the power to stand up and explain to Trump that he is causing great harm. Trump blinked not once but twice this week, and reports are that in both cases it was directly due to people with greater knowledge than Trump explaining the ways of the world to him in such a way that he understood -- even to the point of backing down (which Trump hates to do). The first came when Trump reversed himself on wanting to fire the chairman of the Federal Reserve, and the second came as Trump hinted at weakening his brutal tariff moves against China.
The markets tanked in a big way on Monday, reacting to Trump's threat to fire Jerome Powell, but then recovered yesterday and today as Trump was forced to back off his juvenile playground bullying. Here's how the investment world is seeing all of this:
A stock market surge on Wednesday was again fueled not by concrete evidence of policy changes, but by off-the-cuff comments from President Trump and other officials, as investors latched onto scraps of information about tariffs, trade and other crucial issues that can shift from day to day.
Wall Street's drastic swings this week -- a sharp sell-off on Monday, followed by two big daily rallies -- highlight how investors are swayed by the latest headlines amid the confusion and uncertainty about the White House's intentions.
. . .
"What is different about this current market environment," Mr. [Steve] Sosnick [chief strategist at Interactive Brokers] added, "is that it is so driven basically by one person's decisions."
A "huge" portion of the volatility, he said, "is strictly the result of policy decisions, and we're seeing them being altered in real time."
Despite this week's rally, the S&P 500 sits about 10 percent below its level on Jan. 20, when Mr. Trump took office.
"This whole crisis has been man-made," Mr. Sosnick said.
One other chief investment officer echoed this complaint: "Trump threatening [Fed Chair Jerome] Powell one day and then backing off because the market sold off -- that's not coherent policy." Another economist put a particularly apt label on the Trumponomic world we all now live in:
The effects of Wall Street being captive to the latest statements from the White House could be far-reaching, beyond the daily rises and falls. "The erratic threaten-retreat-threaten-retreat cycle has economic consequences," Paul Donovan, the chief economist of UBS Global Wealth Management, wrote in a note. "The uncertainty this causes may impact consumer and business decision-making."
Seems pretty obvious, right? But you have to love that "erratic threaten-retreat-threaten-retreat cycle" label, since it captures the Groundhog Day nature of it all. Will the groundhog see his shadow or not this morning? Stay tuned!
This reversal all came about because a few of Trump's top advisors actually pushed back on his harebrained scheme to fire Powell, as the Washington Post reports:
President Donald Trump's abrupt shift in rhetoric Tuesday toward Federal Reserve Chair Jerome H. Powell reflected the private lobbying of some of his senior advisers, who had urged the president to back off his incendiary attacks on the central bank, three people familiar with the matter said.
On Monday, the stock market fell precipitously as Trump attacked Powell as a "major loser," fueling speculation that the president would move to fire the Fed chief. But by Tuesday afternoon, Trump appeared to dial back his rhetoric, saying he had "no intention of firing" Powell and arguing that the "press runs away with things."
Got that? It was all the fault of the press, even though Trump kicked off the whole thing by posting about how much he wanted to fire Powell on his own pet social media site. But it was that dastardly press, reporting Trump's actual words, that was the real problem. So Trump was forced to begrudgingly walk it all back, while still desperately trying to pin all the economic woes since he took office on Powell:
The president's shift followed the counsel of several administration officials, including Treasury Secretary Scott Bessent and Commerce Secretary Howard Lutnick, said the people, who spoke on the condition of anonymity to describe private deliberations. The officials cautioned that the administration did not need further disruption in financial markets from an all-out battle with the Federal Reserve and that it already had several major economic fights on its hands, including new tariffs, the people said. The market turmoil made Trump more open to leaving Powell in his position than he would have been a month ago, one of the people said.
"I would like to see him be a little more active in terms of his idea to lower interest rates," Trump said Tuesday. "It's a perfect time to lower interest rates. If he doesn't, is it the end? No, it's not, but it would be good timing. It would be.... It could have taken place earlier. But, no, I have no intention to fire him."
But it wasn't just Trump's top economic advisors pushing back. Also on Monday, Trump met with three CEOs who had some brutal predictions for where things were headed, due to Trump's trade war with China:
During a private meeting in the Oval Office on Monday, the CEOs of Walmart, Target and Home Depot reportedly told the president that supply chains could freeze and prompt stores' shelves to go barren if he doesn't reign [sic] in on his sharp tariff plans, and meddles with the Federal Reserve.
"The big box CEOs flat out told him the prices aren't going up, they're steady right now, but they will go up," an administration official familiar with the meeting told Axios. "And this wasn't about food. But he was told that shelves will be empty."
According to a separate official briefed on the meeting, Trump was told that if he doesn't change course, the impact could be noticeable in as little as two weeks.
The CEOs words seemed to have some sway on the president.
The following day, Trump told reporters that tariffs on China will "come down substantially" from his previously announced 145% rate.
A longer version of what Trump actually said: "145% is very high, and it won't be that high. It won't be anywhere near that high... It will come down substantially, but it won't be zero."
According to some media reports, the administration is considering dropping the tariff rate by between 50 and 65 percent, which would be a major reduction. Others predict it could even drop by half.
Trump's got a big problem with his China trade war, and the problem is they're not backing down. China has plenty of (as Trump likes to put it) "cards to play," and China was singled out by Trump to be the big center-ring fight in his trade war. He wanted to see China cower and come to him with hat in hand, begging for a trade deal. This has not happened. Instead, they hiked their own tariffs on U.S. goods to 125 percent and called Trump's bluff. China knows full well that political pressure is a very potent thing in America, whereas that is not remotely as true in China. This means they can weather the storm a lot easier than Trump can. Which the CEOs must have explained to Trump in that meeting.
Trump continues his bluster, as the White House now insists that America will not "unilaterally" reduce their tariffs. Meaning China would have to make a move as well, probably in some good-faith effort as talks for a trade deal begin between the two countries. But by doing so, Trump is projecting weakness in a big way. He's all but admitting the trade war is going to hurt America first, not China. This will give China the upper hand in any negotiations.
Trump thought he could force China to the bargaining table. Obviously, he was wrong about that. He fully expected China to beg him to reduce his tariffs. They haven't. Up until now, big corporations haven't been hit too hard because they all stocked up on everything before the tariffs hit. But those stockpiles are now dwindling. So Trump faces the prospect -- within weeks -- of shelves at the big stores being empty. How will that play on the evening news? Trump's approval ratings on the economy are already tanking, and seeing empty shelves on the nightly news is only going to accelerate that trend in a big way.
So he blinked. Just like he blinked on the idea of firing Powell.
Both of which are good things, of course. But the best thing is seeing proof that there still are a few "adults in the room" who can talk Trump down from the brink, by explaining to him that it's all going to blow up in his face very soon now. At the very least, it's good to know that the groundhog can actually still be influenced by reality, instead of him seeing his shadow being a purely random event.
-- Chris Weigant
Follow Chris on Twitter: @ChrisWeigant
The first came when Trump reversed himself on wanting to fire the chairman of the Federal Reserve, and the second came as Trump hinted at weakening his brutal tariff moves against China.
It was a busy day today for Trump in the "getting owned" department, and it showed on his orange visage:
* Trump was owned by his own Fed Chair, Powell.
* Trump was owned by his "great relationship" in China, Xi.
* Trump was owned by his long-time possessor in Russia, Putin.
Heck, who didn't own Trump today? I even saw him on live TV today sitting at the Resolute Desk and negotiating with himself about tariffs in an incredible head-spinning self-own.
The rate at which Trump becomes Lame Duck Donald appears to be quickening... quack, quack.
what happens if Donald backs off on china, but china doesn't?
A very optimistic post on the pessimistic subject of this radically incompetent Republican administration's plans to remake the U.S. into a retro-50s McCarthy-style dictatorship.
OK, he didn't fire Powell, and he may have to admit that China will 'win' any trade war he wants to fight. Good on his so-called advisors - who failed to stop him from making those bonehead moves in the first place.
As others here have noted, there are other authoritarian and America-toxic irons in the fire, like the assaults on all private institutions not already in thrall to the administration, assaults on civil liberty and the rule of law, assaults on verifiable 'government efficiency' in serving the American public and its safety in the face of private capital's threats, etc.
Are his advisers and the big CEO's fighting him on those, too?
John M from Ct. [3] -
yeah, not to mention the cratering of American "soft power" worldwide... Marco Rubio's descent into toadyism is a thing to behold, isn't it?
-CW
OK, I just posted this on last Friday's column, I am reposting it here to be sure it is seen...
======================
Michale -
you want rules? OK, here is a rule for you to follow for the next week. Your continuing presence here depends on it.
Don't be a jerk.
That's it. Ask the internet question "AITA?" before you post, and if the answer is "Yes," then don't post it. Nobody wants to read it.
You are on thin ice, buddy.
I will give you a week.
You have no "benefit of the doubt" from anyone here, anymore. You just don't.
Some of us remember you as the guy who would cheerfully admit when others made a point that you actually either agreed with or at least contemplated (remember when you used to regularly post, with a skewed accent mark: "Touché"?)
Some of us remember you as a fun guy who would shrug off politics to discuss sci-fi and other fun subjects.
Some of us remember you as a decent guy who wasn't just a flat-out bully and would never for a minute listen to an opposing viewpoint.
I am one of them.
If you can manage to channel that pre-MAGA "Trump Deification Syndrome" Michale, I would be willing to bet that everyone here would be fine with you having a seat at the table.
However, the cult-following "I WILL NOT LISTEN to any fact that contradicts my Dear Leader" guy...
...that guy, NOBODY wants.
OK?
So just... here is your test... this is the difference between a yellow card and red...
Don't be a jerk.
(oh, and I personally salute you for voluntarily respecting the yellow card thing and not posting anything for a week... I tip my hat to you for that, ok?)
but seriously, dude, you are NOT adding anything to the conversation... you think you are, but you are NOT "owning the libs" here... you are just being annoying and a giant dick.
I am giving you one last chance. Go back to being polite and not-insulting, or pack it up and go someplace else.
Your choice.
You have been warned.
-CW
Poet
2
It’s highly unlikely China would retain them. China’s an export driven economy because young people consume things and there are now more Chinese over 50 than below. So to keep everyone employed (and relatively pacified) they need to export as much as possible. Keeping the tariffs would dampen demand for China’s exports and make them, not Trump, the baddies.
CW
4
Somebody somewhere once said that if you don’t want to occupy a country you can lead them to cooperate via things, like, oh, USAID. Someone (else?) said if we cut the State Department we’ll have to spend the savings on ammunition.
This is why I’m convinced Trump is Krasnov — Daddy Vladdy has had a great Trump 2.0 thus far, no? In fact, he’s the only winner in sight!
CW
5
I’d set the over/under for how long until the inevitable red card at roughly three weeks, max. Cain’t help hisself.
Had to look this up. 'AITA' as Chris refers 'the internet question' means 'Am I the Asshole?'.
I didn't pursue it, but there's evidently an entire subreddit on this topic, the phenomenon where one is SO CERTAIN that one is correct in some argument with others, but one has never stopped to self-question ones certainty. Perhaps, as the tag goes, its oneself who has got it wrong. Perhaps it is oneself who is actually the bad actor in a dispute. Perhaps it's oneself who is the asshole.
CW,
you want rules? OK, here is a rule for you to follow for the next week. Your continuing presence here depends on it.
Don't be a jerk.
Fair enough..
I do have one question though.. Just one simple one..
Does the rule apply to everyone here in Weigantia?? Or just to me?? Because as JL and Liz have also agreed, everyone here has been a jerk..
As Caddy's comment #8 clearly shows..
If you are going to allow me to be the Weigantia punching bag and tie my hands then I might as well, as you say, "pack it up"...
So, just let me know..
The last few days have been somewhat hopeful, since it seems that some people still do have the power to stand up and explain to Trump that he is causing great harm. Trump blinked not once but twice this week,
For the record, PRESIDENT Trump has not "blinked"..
It's called strategy...You HAVE read ART OF THE DEAL, right?? Keep your opponent guessing.. Hit them with so many lefts, then slap them down with a right...
And the strategy would be working perfectly if woke progressive Democrats would LET the strategy succeed.. But if the opponents of America believe that woke progressive Democrats will succeed in putting THEIr (our opponents) interests before America's then our opponents will try and hold out...
But I don't believe that Democrats will succeed... PRESIDENT Trump doesn't have to worry about re-election this time around..
And PRESIDENT Trump's will to help America is a LOT stronger than woke progressive Democrats' will to hurt America...
So, PRESIDENT Trump and America will win...
The markets tanked in a big way on Monday, reacting to Trump's threat to fire Jerome Powell,
Except PRESIDENT Trump never threatened to fire Jerome Powell.. That's what woke progressive Democrat propaganda brought to you buy the woke progressive Democrat propaganda machine..
So, the objective reality is that the markets tanking was the fault of woke progressive Democrats..
QED
This reversal all came about because a few of Trump's top advisors actually pushed back on his harebrained scheme to fire Powell, as the Washington Post reports:
"Washington Post" reports..
That's all you have to know to understand exactly what was what....
There was no threat to fire Powell...
It was woke progressive Democrat propaganda..
Got that? It was all the fault of the press,
You mean, like Clyburn blamed the press for the woke progressive Democrats getting their asses handed to them in the 2024 election??
You mean like that???
I'm just sayin'....
So Trump was forced to begrudgingly walk it all back,
No.. It means that PRESIDENT Trump simply stated that the claim of him going to fire Jerome Powell was woke progressive Democrat fake news and there was never any plan to fire Powell..
Trump's got a big problem with his China trade war, and the problem is they're not backing down.
And WHY is China not backing down?? Because China is expecting that woke progressive Democrats will help China defeat PRESIDENT Trump and America...
So he blinked. Just like he blinked on the idea of firing Powell.
Not factually accurate..
PRESIDENT Trump simply altered his strategy to account for woke progressive Democrats helping China defeat America..
The facts are clear.. PRESIDENT Trump *NEVER* indicated he was going to fire Jerome Powell.. That claim is nothing but woke progressive Democrat propaganda...
While it's true that PRESIDENT Trump and America are losing a battle here or there, we ARE winning the war..
And THAT is what is important...
JL,
while no real life person could ever be a perfect match for television characters from sixty years ago on a fictional other planet, Donald and mELakON come closer than any other two real life humans possibly could.
And if you were saying that PRESIDENT Trump is Melakon, you would have a point and your analogy would be somewhat applicable..
But you are NOT saying that PRESIDENT Trump is Melakon. You are saying that PRESIDENT Trump is Professor John Gill... There is absolutely ZERO of Professor Gill in PRESIDENT Trump
And THAT claim makes your analogy completely wrong as wrong can possibly be..
Not to mention the fact that Musk was a woke progressive Democrat darling just a few short years ago... Musk was actually part of Star Trek canon as a hero.. And it's a fact that Musk has not fired a SINGLE SOLITARY person or slashed a SINGLE SOLITARY budget or gave a SINGLE SOLITARY order to ANY US Gov agency...
There is absolutely ZERO of Melakon in Elon Musk..
As I pointed out before, Barack Hussein Odumbo as Melakon with Basement Biden as John Gill is a MUCH MORE factually accurate agenda..
I don't expect you to agree... But facts are facts...
Michale,
For now, I think you just have to accept that the rule Chris has outlined here applies to you and only you.
After all, we can't control how others behave here. So, it is up to each of us to control our own behavior and be the kind of commenter that Chris would be proud to have contributing in the comments sections of his blog.
If you do your part, then the rest will fall in place as it will, for better or worse and you will know, in any event, that you are doing what you need to do to make these comments sections the fun place that you and I both know they have been and can be again! :-)
MtnCaddy
7
Somebody somewhere once said that if you don’t want to occupy a country you can lead them to cooperate via things, like, oh, USAID.
The now toadying Little Marco (among others, I would wager). Great point.
In a 2022 letter, just three years ago, Rubio (with Patrick Leahy) wrote a letter to President Biden urging the prioritization of the funding of USAID to "counter the Chinese Communist Party's expanding global influence."
Someone (else?) said if we cut the State Department we’ll have to spend the savings on ammunition.
General Mattis.
John M from Ct.
9
Had to look this up. 'AITA' as Chris refers 'the internet question' means 'Am I the Asshole?'.
Thanks, John. Now I don't have to look it up. :)
I didn't pursue it, but there's evidently an entire subreddit on this topic, the phenomenon where one is SO CERTAIN that one is correct in some argument with others, but one has never stopped to self-question ones certainty. Perhaps, as the tag goes, its oneself who has got it wrong. Perhaps it is oneself who is actually the bad actor in a dispute. Perhaps it's oneself who is the asshole.
All this talk referring to "assholes" got me to thinking, you know what they say about opinions being like "assholes"? EGO.
How did that thing post? I was not finished!
Lastly, Opinions Aren't Facts: OAF. :)
Hegseth orders makeup studio installed at Pentagon
So when Trump is pushing his "Make Men Manly Again” Movement, he is talking more Village People than Army Ranger...
FACT CHECK
The markets didn't immediately tank the next day on Friday, but that's only because the markets were closed in observance of the religious holiday, Good Friday; however, they definitely tanked on Monday.
Liz,
If that's the case, I might as well pack it up..
Because I refuse to accept the role of Weigantian Punching Bag without the ability to defend myself and my point of view..
After all, we can't control how others behave here.
No we can't.. But CW can. The fact that, if what you are saying is correct, that CW expects me to simply take the abuse without responding is a pretty sure indication that it is CW who has changed and not me..
If you do your part, then the rest will fall in place as it will, for better or worse and you will know, in any event, that you are doing what you need to do to make these comments sections the fun place that you and I both know they have been and can be again! :-)
Do you HONESTLY believe that the comments will be a "fun place" when the likes of Victoria, Russ and Caddy will continue their sick sexual perverted attacks??
I KNOW it wouldn't be "fun" for me and I am pretty sure it wouldn't be "fun" for you or JL either.. At least, I hope it wouldn't be.
What you are describing is NOT a forum for the free-exchange of ideas, but rather a fascist forum where no dispute or disagreement of the group-think is tolerated..
Again, the fact that such blatant intolerance is not only allowed, but made the law of the (Weigantia) land is another sure indication that it's not me who has changed.
All of the afore pre-supposes that you are correct in your assessment that the rule applies ONLY to me and that others are free to wail on me and my family and my children to their heart's content..
If it's NOT the case... If the DON'T BE A JERK rule applies to EVERYONE, then I can work with that...
Powell’s termination cannot come fast enough!
~ Donald Trump, April 17, 2025
Thank you.. That proves that PRESIDENT Trump didn't say he was going to fire Powell...
Kinda like CW saying to me, "You can't get banned fast enough"
It doesn't mean he is planning to ban me at this time. It simply means that he looks forward to the day that he WILL ban me...
As such, it's another example of how CW has changed..
But thank you for confirming the facts..
PRESIDENT Trump *NEVER* said it was his intention to fire Powell...
"Thank you for your co-operation."
-Black Widow, THE AVENGERS
Essentially, Michale, the rule does indeed apply to everyone. If you follow the rule and others do not, then CW will, presumably, deal with those commenters, accordingly.
And, yes, I think this has been tried before, unsuccessfully. Which doesn't mean that it can't ever work. I think the least you can do is follow the rule, tone it down, be considerate of others, aggressively self-edit, etc. and see how it goes this time around.
One piece of advice going forward, Michale and which I intend to abide by ... comments should be limited as much as possible to being directly related to the subject matter in Chris's headlining columns. By ensuring that, I think we can eliminate a lot of the extraneous and distracting threads of comments that can very easily devolve into the kinds of juvenile behavior that have become so prevalent in these comments sections.
Michale
20
Thank you..
You're welcome.
That proves that PRESIDENT Trump didn't say he was going to fire Powell...
That proves that Trump threatened to fire Powell... in writing... and not for the first time either.
Kinda like CW saying to me, "You can't get banned fast enough"
It is false equivalency to claim that an actual quote directly from Donald Trump's social media post would be like a fake quote that was invented and ascribed to someone else.
It doesn't mean he is planning to ban me at this time. It simply means that he looks forward to the day that he WILL ban me...
It honestly just means that a fake quote was invented and then interpreted by the quote's inventor to achieve his own agenda.
As such, it's another example of how CW has changed..
It's honestly more an example of how things get invented that were never actually said by a person and then the inventor speculates further and explains what someone else meant by a quote they never actually made.
But thank you for confirming the facts..
Well, I'm not sure why anyone would claim otherwise when Trump actually did threaten to fire Powell.
PRESIDENT Trump *NEVER* said it was his intention to fire Powell...
Honestly, though, I would wager Trump actually did say that to someone in his administration because Kevin Hassett, National Economic Council Director, confirmed on multiple occasions that Trump and his team had been studying whether firing Federal Reserve Chair Jerome Powell was an option. Prattling about it incessantly without considering actually doing it would be nothing more than empty threats.
Regardless, CW was dead-on accurate when he said: "The markets tanked in a big way on Monday, reacting to Trump's threat to fire Jerome Powell...," because that definitely did happen.
"Thank you for your co-operation."
CW can thank me later. :)
@m,
just because we're all responsible doesn't mean we're all EQUALLY responsible. CW thinks you're MORE responsible than any single other individual, and on that point i agree. you seem to like arguing that this opinion stems primarily from bias against Trump, against conservatives, or against you personally, but in THAT sentiment you're very much alone. worse, if you continue to belabor that point of contention, you're unlikely to remain here much longer.
This is not a situation you can argue your way out of, and your instinct to fill up more space with more argument (instead of accepting that your view on that point is not going to be taken seriously) will work against you, not in your favor. thirteen straight posts of firehose insults is not kicking ass, it's wasting space. as dire as all this may sound, i'm on your side, and i hope you can make the necessary changes, so we get to keep your perspective.
JL
Essentially, Michale, the rule does indeed apply to everyone. If you follow the rule and others do not, then CW will, presumably, deal with those commenters, accordingly.
That's what I needed to hear..
I am fine with that.. I have unquestionably proven beyond ANY doubt that I can be the bigger man...
If everyone else follow my example, then there won't be any issue that CW would need to step in on..
I think the least you can do is follow the rule, tone it down, be considerate of others, aggressively self-edit, etc. and see how it goes this time around.
I can follow the rule.. I can tone it down.. But, unless they apologize, there will NEVER be an instance where I would be considerate of the ones who dragged my children and grandchildren into their sick sexual perverted fantasies..
I just can't do it. I am not that strong...
One piece of advice going forward, Michale and which I intend to abide by ... comments should be limited as much as possible to being directly related to the subject matter in Chris's headlining columns.
OR responding to others bringing up legitimate debate subjects...
I can easily do that...
I think we can eliminate a lot of the extraneous and distracting threads of comments that can very easily devolve into the kinds of juvenile behavior that have become so prevalent in these comments sections.
I don't think it can happen.. There are simply too many volatile types who believe their opinions are the ONLY opinions worth discussing and anyone who disagrees with them is wrong and inherently evil.
But I am willing to give it a go....
If it DOES fail, it won't be because of anything I did or didn't do....
I can promise you that..
@liz,
I think the most important thing you wrote about is the need to "aggressively self-edit," meaning that once a post is complete, go back over it before posting. remove words or phrases that you know will antagonize people, even if you personally think they deserve it, or shouldn't be offended by it. remove anything you already mentioned in the same comment section - or better yet, go back and read your prior posts to check if there's anything you already said, and erase it if you did.
reading is fundamental.
JL
That's great, Michale!
But, unless they apologize, there will NEVER be an instance where I would be considerate of the ones who dragged my children and grandchildren into their sick sexual perverted fantasies..
Well, apologies may be asking and expecting too much but, if I were you, I wouldn't let that stop me from following the rules, including refraining from tapping out personal insults (ie. being 'considerate' of others).
Anyway, lets say we give it a try ... starting right now! :-)
JL[26],
couldn't agree more!
just had a thought ... I wonder if Chris could make it so that when you hit the 'Submit Comment' thingy, a window pops up automatically asking if you would like to preview and edit your comment ...
I can't tell you how many times I have wished to take a comment back after not previewing it first. But, I am getting better at aggressively self-editing. Heh.
JL,
just because we're all responsible doesn't mean we're all EQUALLY responsible. CW thinks you're MORE responsible than any single other individual, and on that point i agree.
I can understand why ya'all would think that.. That's an ideological call based on... ideology.. I have posted innumerable facts that support my position.
We'll just have to agree to disagree..
. thirteen straight posts of firehose insults is not kicking ass, it's wasting space.
And bunches of straight posts attacking myself and PRESIDENT Trump and anyone else who disagrees "IS kicking ass"??
as dire as all this may sound, i'm on your side, and i hope you can make the necessary changes, so we get to keep your perspective.
The only changes I am making is to tone it down..
But as Liz pointed out, I can't control how others comment..
I WILL just let their personal attacks stand alone and then we'll see if Weigantia can go back to the tolerant and reality based forum it was or not..
As I said above, if this fails it won't be because of anything I did or did not do...
I believe that if CW simply takes a deep breath and rationally examines the PROs of my presence here instead of just looking at the CONs, he'll see, as you do, the benefit of my presence here...
Time will tell...
"It usually does."
-Elizabeth Miller
:D
Liz,
, if I were you, I wouldn't let that stop me from following the rules, including refraining from tapping out personal insults
That I can do... :D
Michale [25]
Playing the victim to the end? You have your own sins, should they demand you apologize as well?
Because I refuse to accept the role of Weigantian Punching Bag without the ability to defend myself and my point of view..
Then do so. Come up with arguments as to why your side is right and back them up with links to sources that back that argument up.
Page after page of dumb slur infused pontification is not defending yourself, it's the epitome of being a jerk...
Bashi,
Playing the victim to the end? You have your own sins, should they demand you apologize as well?
I think there is a lot the rest of us can do to encourage and facilitate a change for the better. For example, was that first sentence or two that you wrote really necessary? I mean, if you had it to do over again, would you edit it out? :)
Bash,
Playing the victim to the end?
Just the facts..
You have your own sins,
I do... But, besides JL, I am the ONLY one who has conceded such. Has Victoria or Russ or Caddy stepped up to hold themselves responsible for their disgusting and perverted sexual attacks on my family???
Nope... Never..
should they demand you apologize as well?
They wouldn't have to "demand".. If they were to apologize, I would step up and do the same..
A simple and sincere apology can erase a MULTITUDE of sins...
That's just how I am...
Then do so. Come up with arguments as to why your side is right and back them up with links to sources that back that argument up.
I do.. I don't post the links any more because ya'all complained about the links.. Don't complain about something and then turn around and whine that I don't do it..
But I *ALWAYS* have the facts to back up my opinions and facts..
Page after page of dumb slur infused pontification is not defending yourself, it's the epitome of being a jerk.
But you only say that because it's defending PRESIDENT Trump..
Again with the exception of JL, not ONE of ya'all are capable of conceding when PRESIDENT Trump is correct or is doing the right thing...
With a few minor exceptions, not a single one of ya'all is willing to give PRESIDENT Trump (or myself) the benefit of the doubt..
Just like ya'all aren't willing to give cops the benefit of the doubt.. It's all part and parcel to the same ideological bent..
It's why ya'all were completely and utterly WRONG about the 2024 election and I called it dead on balls accurate...
Carp!!!
I think there is a lot the rest of us can do to encourage and facilitate a change for the better. For example, was that first sentence or two that you wrote really necessary? I mean, if you had it to do over again, would you edit it out? :)
Had I seen this before I posted, I would have altered my comment as well...
My bust....
That's an ideological call based on... ideology..
no, it's a quantitative call based on... quantity..
Heh.
Michale,
My bust....
Heh ... it takes some getting used to but I know we can do it!
I do.. I don't post the links any more because ya'all complained about the links..
Total cop out and you know it...
But I *ALWAYS* have the facts to back up my opinions and facts..
But are conveniently prevented from posting them? Again, total cop out...
Again with the exception of JL, not ONE of ya'all are capable of conceding when PRESIDENT Trump is correct or is doing the right thing...
With a few minor exceptions, not a single one of ya'all is willing to give PRESIDENT Trump (or myself) the benefit of the doubt..
Any different than your treatment of Obama and Biden?
Just like ya'all aren't willing to give cops the benefit of the doubt.. It's all part and parcel to the same ideological bent..
But Occupy, Black Lives Matter and the Anti Fascists movement are all "scumbags"?
It's why ya'all were completely and utterly WRONG about the 2024 election and I called it dead on balls accurate...
You mean your lies about how big the victory was (it was one of the closer races in American history)...
Yup, playing the victim till the end and evidently the end is near...
For example, was that first sentence or two that you wrote really necessary? I mean, if you had it to do over again, would you edit it out? :)
Hell no. Accurate and absolutely necessary...
Bashi, I thought you wanted to be a larger part of the solution here... you made some very valid points in [38].
i agree with bashi, it was and is absolutely necessary.
kick provided the link, but in this situation i thought it might be a good idea to post an excerpt of text from goode trickle (edited for length):
once red cards get involved, i think they close the line in vegas.
necessary, that is, if our goal is to try to help michale overcome his more self-destructive instincts.
I just think we need to give some space and to give every chance for the behavior to change; however, this time is definitely my last go at trying to change things for the better around here; I'm slowly but surely losing all interest in being here.
Yes, quite different than Odumbo and Biden..
I **VOTED** for Odumbo... And I am on record as saying on MULTIPLE occasions, that Biden was an honorable man and he should have left on a high moral note and NOT run for POTUS..
So, yea... It's quite different..
Now that I have proven you wrong, you're going to refuse to concede the point and simply move the goal posts or go off on some tangent..
That's (one of) the problems here.. With the exception of JL, none of ya'all can admit yer wrong...
Liz doesn't have that issue because she is never wrong. :D
But Occupy, Black Lives Matter and the Anti Fascists movement are all "scumbags"?
Yep.. Exactly... BLM was a MASSIVE con (well documented) that burned and destroyed and killed DOZENS of people including at least 8 cops..
Anti Fa is to TRUE anti-facism what the Democratic Republic of North Korea is to TRUE democracy..
These are both factual points that you refuse to concede...
You mean your lies about how big the victory was (it was one of the closer races in American history)...
Not factually accurate.. Considering the context, PRESIDENT Trump's victory was a HUGE blowout...
ANOTHER factual point that you refuse to concede.. It's all part and parcel to the Trump/America hate and PTDS...
But you have been more a less a gentleman in that you mostly stayed away from personal attacks on my family... The once or twice you ventured slightly in that direction, I could tell it made you feel icky and you stopped..
And, for that... I luv ya... :D
necessary, that is, if our goal is to try to help michale overcome his more self-destructive instincts.
AND....
And help most everyone else overcome the urge NOT to push my buttons that bring on those alleged self-destructive instincts..
Opinions aren't facts.
And, just to return to politics for a second....
http://mfccfl.us/pollnumbers.jpg
Opinions aren't facts.
I never said they were..
I said that MY opinions are SUPPORTED by the facts..
Opinions supported by additional opinions are still opinions.
Michale,
And help most everyone else overcome the urge NOT to push my buttons that bring on those alleged self-destructive instincts..
Now, that right there is something that should have been self-edited out because it is most decidedly NOT a point in your favour.
Liz,
Now, that right there is something that should have been self-edited out because it is most decidedly NOT a point in your favour.
I simply pointed out that ALL who participate will need to change their ways..
Or, "look in the mirror" as JL put it...
in your favour
Love the British accent.. :D
Kick,
Yes... Opinions are opinions and not facts..
We've established that.. :^/
I simply pointed out that ALL who participate will need to change their ways..
It sounded more like you are admitting to not being able to control your own urges after your buttons have been pushed.
A big part of self-control is not letting your buttons get pushed in the first place and, when they do, not responding in kind.
It sounded more like you are admitting to not being able to control your own urges after your buttons have been pushed.
It HAS been an issue.. But I promise to work on it.. :D
I **VOTED** for Odumbo... And I am on record as saying on MULTIPLE occasions, that Biden was an honorable man and he should have left on a high moral note and NOT run for POTUS..
And were already down on him weeks in to his term, long before he had a chance to prove himself as the sidebar history of this site proves...
Now that I have proven you wrong,
Yes, yes, premature elation is one of your known flaws...
Did you give Obama a chance during his second term? You know, and apples to apples comparison?
Yep.. Exactly... BLM was a MASSIVE con (well documented) that burned and destroyed and killed DOZENS of people including at least 8 cops..
And how is this different than the Trump administration?
Anti Fa is to TRUE anti-facism what the Democratic Republic of North Korea is to TRUE democracy..
So, you want concessions from us that you would never give yourself.
That's (one of) the problems here.. With the exception of JL, none of ya'all can admit yer wrong...
I'll give you the honest answer to that one: When anyone has admitted they were wrong, you have taken it out of context and pushed it back in their face. Sometimes ad nauseam. You know, jerk behavior. So of course no one will admit they are wrong to you.
Not factually accurate.. Considering the context, PRESIDENT Trump's victory was a HUGE blowout...
Just not in the numbers of either the popular or electoral college vote...
ANOTHER factual point that you refuse to concede.. It's all part and parcel to the Trump/America hate and PTDS...
You do realize I view you as the America hating, unpatriotic one, right? It's all in perspective, making that class of dumb slur particularly dumb...
Elizabeth
27
But, unless they apologize, there will NEVER be an instance where I would be considerate of the ones who dragged my children and grandchildren into their sick sexual perverted fantasies..
Having dragged his children (and grandchildren — sounds like a generational grooming) into his own sick perverted sexual fantasies it’s somehow something that is my/our fault? When he’s the one who highlighted his kids to attract the right kind of fellow Swingers?
Caddy,
What you wrote in [55], I never said. Your entire [55] would have been better left unsaid ... or aggressively self-edited out, in other words.
Caddy,
You are responsible for your own comments, in the final analysis, and whether those comments are worthy of being tapped out underneath any of Chris's excellent headlining columns.
Bash,
And were already down on him weeks in to his term, long before he had a chance to prove himself as the sidebar history of this site proves...
I don't think it was weeks... Unless you are talking like 50 weeks??
But his senility DID became readily quite quickly... But woke progressive Democrats were hysterical with their "sharp as a tack" claims..
So, you want concessions from us that you would never give yourself.
I never conceded that I would not acknowledge the FACTS.. And the FACT is that AntiFa is a fascist Democrat wing...
So of course no one will admit they are wrong to you.
Yes, that's what I said.. NO ONE admits when they are wrong..
But you do raise an interesting point that mirrors my own..
You claim that *MY* actions are the cause of ya'all never admitting yer wrong.. So your claim is it's *MY* fault that ya'all respond that way...
So you would agree, then, that the ones who so grossly and perversely attack my kids and grandkids are responsible for my response to those disgusting and perverse attacks...
If it applies in ya'all's case of never admitting ya'all are wrong, then it must apply in my case where those who make those disgusting and perverted attacks on my kids and grandkids are responsible for my responses..
QED
You do realize I view you as the America hating, unpatriotic one, right? It's all in perspective, making that class of dumb slur particularly dumb...
So, first off you say the "dumb slur" and then tell me it's a "dumb slur"...
You see how things are??? :D
But we have established a vital point here..
You have stated those who initiate the gross and perverted comments are responsible for my response. Just as MY "taking things out of context and pushing it back in ya'all's faces are responsible for ya'all never admitting when you are wrong..
I think we have reached an important milestone here.. :D
Just so you know... Using another person's own words to defeat them in a debate is a tried and true debate tactic they teach in Debate Tournaments..
Ya'all just don't like it because I am so successful at it.. :D
Caddy,
Having dragged his children (and grandchildren — sounds like a generational grooming) into his own sick perverted sexual fantasies it’s somehow something that is my/our fault?
As you have been told by numerous others, I never posted those messages..
But you refuse to accept the facts...
Liz,
What you wrote in [55], I never said. Your entire [55] would have been better left unsaid ... or aggressively self-edited out, in other words.
Well said...
I don't think it was weeks... Unless you are talking like 50 weeks??
Less than a month. Fast enough that I thought you voted for him to purely give yourself more gravitas to your arguments against him...
I never conceded that I would not acknowledge the FACTS.. And the FACT is that AntiFa is a fascist Democrat wing...
The only fact in that quote is you don't seem to understand the word fact.
You claim that *MY* actions are the cause of ya'all never admitting yer wrong.. So your claim is it's *MY* fault that ya'all respond that way...
Your specific behavior is predictable and unpleasant so people avoid the trigger. It's called being a jerk.
So you would agree, then, that the ones who so grossly and perversely attack my kids and grandkids are responsible for my response to those disgusting and perverse attacks...
I do see you are hamming up your side so you can play the victim. You want "them" to be at fault while taking little responsibility yourself. which is fine, but don't be surprised if it ends in a red card.
As I said before, it's a two way street and your side need much more paving. Chris mentions many complaints about you but never complaints against any of the rest of us. Does that mean he never gets them? Who knows but it does demonstrate one person is causing enough waves that action needed to be taken. Whataboutism in something like this has nothing to do perfection but outsized ratios of behavior...
As I said before, it's a two way street and your side need much more paving.
So, we agree it IS a two way street. Thank you.. That's all I wanted to hear..
Chris mentions many complaints about you but never complaints against any of the rest of us.
Oh, there have been MANY complaints about the rest of ya'all..
They are just ignored because of ideology...
Another way that Weigantia has changed since the arrival of Victoria, Russ and Caddy...
I still luv ya... :D
Michale
I don't think it was weeks... Unless you are talking like 50 weeks??
But his senility DID became readily quite quickly... But woke progressive Democrats were hysterical with their "sharp as a tack" claims..
Obama was never senile and still isn't.
I never conceded that I would not acknowledge the FACTS.. And the FACT is that AntiFa is a fascist Democrat wing...
That's a right-wing conspiracy theory and thus an opinion no matter how many times it is posted claiming otherwise.
Insisting that others apologize and admit when they're wrong about their opinions is just ridiculous attempts to control what others are required to say and post. I am generally of the opinion that no one is required to post to please anyone else... with the obvious exception of Chris Weigant.
As for Chris, I endeavor (operative word there) to follow his wishes as I feel he is definitely worth it and I can actually prove that; however, I won't actually prove that. Other than that, I definitely don't feel anyone owes it to anyone else to post to suit their wishes for apologies or agreeing more often (or at all) with their political points of view which they repeatedly claim are facts but which I believe is more akin to cult worship and repetitive right-wing propaganda... what Chris has aptly named "Trump Deification Syndrome." Sorry... not sorry.
If anyone is in frequent attendance in the comments section of a left-leaning blog in search of agreement with their right-wing partisanship, might I suggest they'd have better luck looking for a needle in a haystack. A needle can easily be found in a haystack by burning it down; however, the repetitive attempts to burn down a left-leaning partisan blog in search of Orange Worship will generally net you bupkis.
Thoughts to ponder. :)
But his senility DID became readily quite quickly... But woke progressive Democrats were hysterical with their "sharp as a tack" claims..
Obama was never senile and still isn't.
No one ever claimed Odumbo was senile... :^/
Thoughts to ponder. :)
Or.... Not.. :)
See!!? Weigantia CAN be fun again!! :D
JL,
what happens if Donald backs off on china, but china doesn't?
"Well, then sir.. We will clean their chronometers.."
-Colonel West, STAR TREK VI, The Undiscovered Country
Michale
62
No one ever claimed Odumbo was senile... :^/
Today? Okay. Other times, when McCain was referred to as "senile," it was inferred that Obama was also... for those of us who remember that dynamic.
Or.... Not.. :)
Fine. Don't consider it at all, and while you're busy not considering it, ask yourself why it is that you continually complain in victim fashion that others aren't taking you and your views into consideration and see if you can make the dots connect why that might be happening when you repeatedly post responses like that one.
Kick,
Today? Okay. Other times, when McCain was referred to as "senile," it was inferred that Obama was also... for those of us who remember that dynamic.
OK There is STILL no reason to mention this because McCain has NEVER been part of this discussion, nor was Odumbo EVER mentioned to be senile in this discussion..
So, it's a mystery to ALL of us as to why you even brought it up? :^/
OK people... It's been real and it's been fun..
And it HAS been real fun.. :D
I think we accomplished a lot today...
We're well on the way of making Weigantia great again!! :D
Back to work tomorrow and it's my long work weekend.
See ya'all on the other side.. :D
When Yellow Card says "They are just ignored because of ideology." [60], it sure seems like a jerk to detached observers like me. Questioning CW's motivations and insinuating that he is biased rather than sick of a toxic TDS chatbot troll is kinda the opposite of "polite and not-insulting". It's a weasely passive-agressive 1st inning move very much in line with it's predictable cyclical game of pwning CW.
Fool me once, shame on - shame on you. Fool me - you can't get fooled again. - King George W
Michale
66
OK There is STILL no reason to mention this because McCain has NEVER been part of this discussion, nor was Odumbo EVER mentioned to be senile in this discussion..
Incorrect. I mentioned Obama was never senile, and I definitely had my reasons for saying it.
So, it's a mystery to ALL of us as to why you even brought it up? :^/
Nobody ever mentions Colonel West from Star Trek, for that matter, but that certainly doesn't stop you from repeatedly bringing him up.
An even bigger "mystery" than that is why you would repeatedly infer that you can read everyone's mind and cannot stop with the responses wherein you put words in everyone's mouths that they never said.
In addition to that "mystery," you seem wholly incapable from stopping yourself from continuing the routine practice of flippantly dismissing the opinions of others, which CW literally addressed in his post today:
If you don't want to consider the points in anyone's post(s), so be it, but a flippant response dismissing them altogether like the garbage at [62]: Or.... Not.. :) followed quickly by your response at [63] stating: "See!!? Weigantia CAN be fun again!! :D" says you are just here to troll and, in my opinion, is the very definition of being a jerk.
Michale,
Don't do it ... don't take the bait.
Michale, do it! Take the bait!
Elizabeth Miller
70
Michale,
Don't do it ... don't take the bait.
It wasn't "bait" on my part. Make any post like that in order to discount the posts of anyone else, and that's the same bullshit he always does like a total "jerk."
And you coming along and posting that only encourages him to play victim when he's not.
MtnCaddy
71
Michale, do it! Take the bait!
It wasn't bait, but he'll definitely play the poor victim with her encouragement.
Michale -
Haven't even gotten up to comment [20] yet and I am struck by a thought...
when did you become such a snowflake? Remember when you used to rag on liberals for being snowflakes?
I mean... just sayin'...
-CW
LizM [22] -
Amen.
-CW
Kick [23] -
Thank you.
:-)
-CW
General comment -
Let's all look forward, shall we?
Let's bury all the hatchets of the past and deal with the present and the future, ok?
-CW
Michale [33] -
Again with the exception of JL, not ONE of ya'all are capable of conceding when PRESIDENT Trump is correct or is doing the right thing...
With a few minor exceptions, not a single one of ya'all is willing to give PRESIDENT Trump (or myself) the benefit of the doubt..
(speaking for the group)
We'd all be a lot more willing to do so if the flip side of that coin were true too... how often do YOU concede when Trump does something wrong or stupid?
Just something to think about. I mean, it goes both ways -- it should be a two-way street, right?
-CW
nypoet22 [41] -
Yeah, that post from goode trickle did sting, I have to admit.
but I'm in a different (and unforgiving) mood now.
thanks for posting that, though. Just strengthens my resolve...
-CW
BashiBazouk [59] -
You are entirely correct. The vast majority of the complaints I have gotten in the past few years have been against one commenter. And even "vast majority" is understating it...
-CW
Kick [61] -
As for Chris, I endeavor (operative word there)
Captain James Cook's ship was called the Endeavour.
Just some fun trivia there...
-CW
Kick [61] -
A needle can easily be found in a haystack by burning it down
Oooo! that's a good one... hadn't heard that before, but it is a pretty brilliant metaphor, I gotta say...
-CW
OK, I made it through Wednesday, but it's after midnight, will have to get to Thu and Fri tomorrow...
-CW