You really need to laugh a little more.

Quite the contrary; I can't stop laughing. Please post more of your climate change is a "winning issue" without "lifting a finger"campaign theories. ;)

And, why are you still commenting on an old thread?

I like to live on the edge. :)

Then act like it around here. :)

You really should allow yourself to stop policing the board, Elizabeth. Otherwise, people might come to realize that your repeated requests for "muscular debate" are hollow and insincere.

Denying climate change and denying it would be wise for Democrats to make it their "number one issue in the age of know-nothing Trumpism" and denying that Democrats can make this a "winning issue against Trump without lifting a finger" are totally different concepts.

One can wholeheartedly believe in the existence of climate change without also believing it should be a number one campaign priority for a political Party. :)

Are you a climate change denier, Kick?

Quite the opposite. :)

Misplaced sarcasm, Kick.

That statement wasn't directed at you but at the accurate picture you drew of the American electorate, as a whole.

*laughs* Nope, not sarcasm at all, Elizabeth, rather a "thank you" for your continued and unceasing sentiments regarding the "devolving" politics of the United States.

http://www.chrisweigant.com/2018/08/15/the-iron-stache-wins-his-primary/#comment-124599

You might remember we have had this discussion before about "how low can the bar go" where you opine that "US politics is steadily devolving."

The sitting Vice President of the United States fatally wounded the former Secretary of the Treasury in 1804. The bar goes quite low... up to and including murder, treason, adultery, children out of wedlock, breaking and entering, Watergate... RICO charges to be named later, etc.

People have been expressing similar sentiments to yours for centuries, but "thank you" for your concern.

Indeed it does, Kick.

And never more so than when talking about the decreasing habitability of our home planet Earth. N

Right, Elizabeth, which you astonishingly believe the Democratic Party could make a "winning issue" against Donald Trump "without lifting a finger," and which I am telling you now would be side-splitting comedy to a vast majority of Americans whose primary concern at the present time is not remotely climate change on our "home planet Earth."

Saving the "home planet" would be a great platform for the Democratic Party versus the Trumpublicans if we were having a general election in the United States at the same time Earth was under attack by an enormous alien mothership with fortress saucers hovered over the White House and major cities of the world... a scenario resembling the plot of Independence Day. Of course, Trump wouldn't join the other world leaders and rise to the occasion because he's not mentally equipped to lead; he'd be the same little bitch whining and tweeting about "America First" and how we weren't concerned with defense of the home planet or our NATO allies who haven't met their 2% of GDP.

Mankind -- that word should have new meaning for all of us today. We can't be consumed by our petty differences anymore. We will be united in our common interests.
~ Bill Pullman, President Thomas J. Whitmore

Misplaced sarcasm, Kick.

That statement wasn't directed at you but at the accurate picture you drew of the American electorate, as a whole.

Indeed it does, Kick.

And never more so than when talking about the decreasing habitability of our home planet Earth. N
Now, there's some context for you!

The first part of that is why US politics is steadily devolving, just like the devolutionary media.

Thank you, Elizabeth.

Standard practice of the DoJ is that you don't indict a sitting president. I suppose that could change …

A memorandum opinion written in 1973 by Tricky Dick's DOJ to protect Nixon and a similar memorandum written in 2000 AB... after Bill, neither of which were concerned in any way whatsoever regarding the issue of whether or not the sitting president committed crimes that concern his winning the election through illegal means on multiple levels.

Things can change when circumstances change. Did the framers of the Constitution intend to allow a sitting president to be permitted to retain the office of the presidency after having committed crimes to attain that office? I'm guessing not... based on the list of grievances contained in their Declaration of Independence.

Maybe a deal can be struck among the United States and the guilty perpetrators to avoid lengthy litigation; it's working out fairly well along those lines so far. I don't see why Trump should be any different than the other perps. No one is above the law in the United States: Absolutely no one. :)

Shouldn't a habitable planet be high on anyone's list?

Sounds good on paper, doesn't it? But context matters; it matters a lot. Also, whose list are you talking about? "Anyone's list"? Anyone covers a lot of people with a lot of lists. Your context is climate change as a "winning issue" for the Democratic Party "without lifting a finger," but that is without question a really big lift on a national basis because it's a complicated issue in context. When the national minimum wage remains fixed for a decade while everything is going up but your paycheck, it's an awfully hard sell to an extremely large portion of the electorate to voluntarily have their taxes raised in order to fund activism on climate change. Let the Green Party run on the issue of climate change. Democrats should be laser focused on "people not PACS"... borrowed from Beto O'Rourke who pretty much ran the equivalent of the Barack Obama campaign in Texas, although a little further to the left to reflect progress made since Obama's initial campaign.

Focus on "people not PACs" means making decisions that advance the interests of America's middle and working classes and not the interest of corporations and corporate donors. Democrats should focus on the stark differences between Republicans rhetoric versus what they've actually delivered and campaign on these stark differences and the protection of the middle/working classes:

* the right of health care
* the right of an education, extension of public education beyond K-12, the millions of jobs that go unfilled because Americans aren't educated
* the right to a living wage
-- (a) raising wages of middle/working classes -- fight for $15
-- (b) lowering taxes
* the right to vote without the myriad of ways to be disenfranchised
* the right to clean water/air <--- your climate change in less complicated terms

"People, not PACs." That should be the focus of the Democratic Party if their aim is to grow their voter base... my opinion, of course. :)

I must say that I find Twitter to be an utterly worthless waste of time.

Twitter's value is hugely dependent on who you follow. Twitter is where news breaks first (if you're following good reporters) and it also is an outlet for activism. People expressing outrage on twitter has actually caused (or played a significant role) actions that matter - for instance, this Whitaker AG thing - he's been pushed back and back and back because as soon as he was announced his history was mined and shared online and Twitter played a big role in that. Moms Demand Change on gun control is very active on Twitter as well and there's a very effective twitter hashtag that appeared a few days ago (#ThisIsOurLane) in which ER and other doctors began responding to the NRA/Ann Coulter saying MD's don't know anything about guns. Doctors began posting stories about digging bullets out of patients and it caught fire and further de-legitimizes the NRA.

If you don't like Twitter, evaluate who you're following and follow better people.

Also, you really should start frequenting DailyKos. DailyKos is dedicated to "more and better Democrats". It is partisan, yes. But it is NOT inaccurate and they follow a lot of stories that don't get wide coverage but are important - stuff happening in State Houses, etc. as well as the "big" stories.

Try it for a few weeks and see what you think!

Or could it be that the Weigantian haste to rationalize Clinton's loss by shouting "collusion" may have been misguided???

I dumped cable about a decade ago and I understand cable as-we-know-it will be dead in about 3 years. Hopefully with a stake of holly thru its cold expensive heart.

The only on-air TV I watch with any frequency is my local PBS station - which has (by far) the best content, best image and best audio quality. That said, I don't like PBS nightly news much better than the commercial equivalents...it suffers from many the same flaws.

I'm of the opinion that real time news is like fast food...addictive but harmful to your well being if consumed on a regular basis. I rely on online NYT and WAPO for most of my news coverage...and my weekly hard copy of the New Yorker magazine. I get a lot snippets from other newspapers and magazines online.

I must say that I find Twitter to be an utterly worthless waste of time. YouTube has some good stuff, but their presentation algorithm tends to overly favor contentious fluff and outright lies...and since I don't think it's good enough to warrant a paid subscription, it's bogged down by short commercials.

CW.com is like my local one-off local deli. Good food, good converstion and easy to get to.

I love that name. Another one bites the dust! McConnell may not get his bulletproof majority after all.

That’s a great win for that state! And she is the first openly bisexual woman elected to Congress, which has to make the evangelicals shudder in disgust.

While I do believe Democrats can make climate change a winning issue in California without lifting a finger, I think they'd lose a lot of fingers if they tried that line of "codswallop" in many parts of Texas, Oklahoma, etc. As always, "codswallop" happens to be in the eye of the beholder. You frequently comment about Trump winning in 2020 which makes me laugh out loud. I'll let you in on a little secret: There are more indictments coming.

The first part of that is why US politics is steadily devolving, just like the devolutionary media.

Standard practice of the DoJ is that you don't indict a sitting president. I suppose that could change …

You most likely believe that because it's high on your list of priorities.

Shouldn't a habitable planet be high on anyone's list?

Interesting.

Rupert Murdoch met with Tiny last week and Tiny has kind of gone into hiding.

Hoping more indictments are about to drop. There are rumors, but then there always are...

And now for something completely relatable... I wasn't wrong about Herr Drumph. Missing memorial ceremonies in the rain because, wet, your hair looks like you wear a pancake-toupee, is evidence that remembrance means nothing to some. Is it any wonder Trump talks a good military, but is scared by its details; grandson of a draft dodger, draft dodging grifter that he is.

Back to the "purple state' that is Florida, luckily, in a generation or two, most of it will be under water...because climate change doesn't exist. SMH. Maybe they'll get their voting shit in order while there's still time.

LL&P

And now for something completely relatable... I wasn't wrong about Herr Drumph. Missing memorial ceremonies in the rain because, wet, your hair looks like you wear a pancake-toupee, is evidence that remembrance means nothing to some. Is it any wonder Trump talks a good military, but is scared by its details; grandson of a draft dodger, draft dodging grifter that he is.

Back to the "purple state' that is Florida, luckily, in a generation or two, most of it will be under water...because climate change doesn't exist. SMH. Maybe they'll get their voting shit in order while there's still time.

LL&P

Did you happen to catch this article, posted today at Huffpo?

Now Is The Time To Act On Climate, Environmentalists Say. Voters Aren’t So Sure.

Why do you think an existential issue like climate change gets such short shrift by American pols in Washington?

Because the ones in charge right now are more interested in making money via those whose primary concern is also making money via fossil fuels and methane.

I think Democrats can make this a winning issue against Trump without lifting a finger.

You most likely believe that because it's high on your list of priorities. While I do believe Democrats can make climate change a winning issue in California without lifting a finger, I think they'd lose a lot of fingers if they tried that line of "codswallop" in many parts of Texas, Oklahoma, etc. As always, "codswallop" happens to be in the eye of the beholder. You frequently comment about Trump winning in 2020 which makes me laugh out loud. I'll let you in on a little secret: There are more indictments coming. :)

What is wrong with Democrats?

Which Democrat? Democrats are not easily lumped and labelled under one definition; they're a Party of diverse people with different ideas from sea to shining sea.

And while not true, it has resonated with a lot of voters.

What cam Democrats do about that, with just a little effort?

Why do you think an existential issue like climate change gets such short shrift by American pols in Washington?

I think Democrats can make this a winning issue against Trump without lifting a finger. Same for why the apparent excellent economy has many flaws about it.

What is wrong with Democrats?

And, of course, I ask with reference to 2020 ...

Why is everyone here, of all places, so hypersensitive?

Wait, what?! The self-appointed board monitor who is requesting an apology for a differing opinion and routinely whines about "common decency" and language wants to know why "everyone here" is "so hypersensitive."

You first. :)

Glad to see him demonstrating just how “pro-military” he truly is! I guess it isn’t just members of our military that get captured that he doesn’t respect...he cannot be bothered to show respect for those that made the ultimate sacrifice for this country!

I can report that they noticed and called him some choice words similar to and exactly like what he says he grabs women by without asking.

I really believe I'd run in there even if I didn't have a weapon. ~ Donald Trump speaking about the mass shooting at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School in Parkland, Florida

*shakes head* I really believe that it's time the gullible minions figured out that Benedict Donald is a pathological lying con artist. If Trump could send John Kelly by vehicle, then he could have gone himself. If Obama had done something similar, the heads of the right-wing sycophants would have exploded. Obama didn't wear a flag lapel pin! Obama saluted with a cup in his hand! OMG! Imagine if Obama was a "no show" to an event where the other world leaders managed to attend.

The so-called Party of taking responsibility for your actions has become the Party of whining grievance who will blame anyone and anything while excusing themselves and Hair Dick Tater for anything and everything. #Pathetic

However, you should apologize for completely misinterpreting the sentiment behind the MDDOTW. It had nothing to do with Beto's character or his prowess as a candidate.

Apologize to who? The adult who writes this blog? Maybe it's just me, but I feel quite certain CW is well equipped to suffer the slings and arrows and sheer horror of having a commenter disagree with his opinion. I would wager LB will apologize for having a differing opinion when Paula and I apologize for our regular posts that don't meet Elizabeth Miller's definition of "common decency"... which is going to happen in approximately that quantity of time that is typically referred to as never.

In comments along the way there were references to what people were doing/saying on cable news, as well as Nate Silver.

I can't stand most of the talking head stuff these days and don't watch it. I get my internet access through cable but don't get cable TV, nor the Dish nor anything else. The only network television I've watched in the last few years has been the occasional SNL. I watch segments posted online at times, mostly of Rachel Maddow, but sometimes others. I watch CSPAN online for things like the Kavanaugh hearings.

"Does anyone want to talk about why Democrats are not making climate change their number one issue in the age of know-nothing Trumpism?"

Because of the nature of the debate in American, Climate change itself is not a winning issue. Not alone by itself. It's portrayed as a "hoax" or as a kooky left wing socialist issue being used to raise taxes and wreck the economy. And while not true, it has resonated with a lot of voters. Democrats won on protecting health care and acting as a check on Trump's worst impulses. If you want to win on climate change, it needs to be packaged differently as an innovative economic stimulus, green jobs creator, and competitive advantage selling point.

"Why is everyone here, of all places, so hypersensitive?"

Elizabeth, part of it may have to do with the fact that "hypersensitivity" is one of the charges the right always levels at the the left in order to dismiss them and be condescending to them whenever the left complains about social injustice issues. Do you know how many times I used to hear that gays who are "civil" have civil rights? That's like patting a woman on the head and telling her not to worry her pretty little self while the men discuss and make all the political decisions. I'm sorry, but no one EVER handed you your rights on a silver platter. It goes part and parcel with the use of terms like "snowflake" and claiming college students are against any kind of speech they don't themselves agree with. Charges of being too politically correct are in this same vein also. When what the right really wants is simply to be able to freely express their bigotry without being called on it like in the good old days of yore. But as we have also seen with President Trump, rhetoric and tone does have real world consequences in giving the unstable license and sanction to act on their worst impulses.

The term "wave election" has been used a lot lately by just about everybody....but does the term really mean anything...or the same thing to different commenators? There are lots of different physical waves. Are there differnt kinds of political waves as well?Since Democrats and Republicans agree on very little, I have to wonder. Before I got on the wave wave I used the term herd or herd effect instead of wave. I think herd is better, but we are all slaves to communication fashion.

I think the MDDOTW award has historically been given out in both of those circumstances and at least one of them involved Biden. :)

Being a Weigantian means never having to say you're sorry. Heh.

After all, it is one of the existential issues, y'know ...

The problem, in a nutshell, is how this award is viewed.

I would have thought the these awards would have been thoroughly understood by now. Sheesh.

Sorry, I am slow to raise issue with this as usually it is given to the actual Democrat that CW believes has disappointed everyone, and not the most disappointing news story featuring a Democrat.

The fact that CW didn’t choose to post how the contact Beto regarding this award seems to support my point, but I guess you just understand these things better than I do.

Why build a wall, when no one in their right mind wants to enter for fear of catching a burst of welcoming crossfire?

LL&Pistols at dawn.

"Trump chose to skip out on attending the memorial services in France."

[19] Mezzomamma

"Was it the rain--or was it realising that none of it would be about him?"

From French President Macron's speech, right in front of Trump:

“Patriotism is the exact opposite of nationalism. Nationalism is a betrayal of patriotism. In saying ‘Our interests first, whatever happens to the others,’ you erase the most precious thing a nation can have, that which makes it live, that which causes it to be great and that which is most important: Its moral values.”

The problem, in a nutshell, is how this award is viewed.

I would have thought the these awards would have been thoroughly understood by now. Sheesh.

agree, beto really doesn't deserve MDD. honestly i think that dishonor should be shared by kathleen williams (MT) and JD Scholten (IA-4), who failed to even come close to beating two men who have no business even running for dog catcher, much less Congress.

JL

Glad to see him demonstrating just how “pro-military” he truly is! I guess it isn’t just members of our military that get captured that he doesn’t respect...he cannot be bothered to show respect for those that made the ultimate sacrifice for this country!

CW, just consider this:

Trump did this same thing to the Republicans who lost their seats.

Your comment illustrates why I have given up watching real time election results trickle in on TV. It is like watching paint dry.

I hope you here will accept my apology when I won't celebrate this wonderful Democratic victory.

You can celebrate or not. That's totally up to you and nothing to apologize for.

However, you should apologize for completely misinterpreting the sentiment behind the MDDOTW. It had nothing to do with Beto's character or his prowess as a candidate.

He lost! And, THAT was a big disappointment ... to many Americans, I presume.

America stayed out of that war as long as it could because many in America, and not just the isolationists, were wary of Europe's tendency to regularly descend into bloody fratricide, a concern that went all the way back to George Washington.

So lots of folks were upset that we were even drawn into that unnecessary bloodbath in the first place, and pissed that it resulted in an outbreak of the 'Spanish flu' stateside, resulting in the deaths of nearly 20 million mostly young victims.

So it's not surprising at all that the same considerations delayed America's entry into the second war to break out there just 20 years later.

If as you say, the 'tide was already turning against Germany' when the US arrived in 1918 - that being a matter of dispute among historians, by the way - it is indisputable that such was not the case when we arrived twenty years later: without US intervention, that war was already lost.

After that second bloodbath, the US decided, 'Fuck it, we'll just keep troops in Europe in case something new flares up.' And that somehow worked, even though the Soviets occupied the half of Europe that we hadn't reached. We kept them at bay too.

But now Europe is again challenged by a right-wing on the march, and this time the US leader is a buffoon that supports nationalists, rather than a scholar that doesn't. Will Europe rise to the occasion and defend its advanced democracies against this emerging threat, or bicker, cower and relent, as they've done in the past?

The latter, if Britain is any measure. Teresa May keeps trying to stick lipstick on the Brexit pig even as evidence piles up that the whole thing was a Putin inspired project designed to divide the EU.

Italy has already (again) fallen to the fascists. Only a matter of time before Merkel succumbs as well, and we're back to being up to our necks in jack-booted thugs, this time with both Russian and US backing. If that doesn't send a chill up your spine, then you don't know history at all.

I'm with you all in the trenches. Yes, we can grimly celebrate our successes of this last week - historic because it had to be, to make up for years of neglect and party ossification. Making up a third of our losses means that two-thirds of our losses still remain unanswered, to state the obvious.

But the Death Star still hovers overhead, and Emperor Nectarine in still in charge. That casts an ominous pall on the party, no matter how drunk the Ewoks get.

Now is the time to re-assess, to examine both our wins and our losses for clues to how to fight the larger battle yet to come in 2020.

So Chis, if you happen to detect an underlying sobriety in your fellow Democrats, remember that many of us are still living behind enemy lines, so to speak, and that for many of us our state leadership, local officials, and legislature are still rosy-cheeked Republicans, and there is still a resistance out here that needs to be organized.

In a sense, we're the like grizzled vets in war movies, who say to the still-green recruit: "Yeah, we got 'em good this time. But I remember the war of '16, and we thought we had 'em good then too, and then - the horror. Have a drink on me tonight, kid, but don't forget that tomorrow the war begins again, and it ain't over 'til it's over for good."

Trump will always be his own worst enemy. It will be amusing to watch him devolve into full-blown lunacy over the next 24 months, as he stumbles from one catastrophe to the next.

I had to chuckle at the historical irony of Trump going to France for the 100th anniversary of the 1918 armistice. The Trump family probably shiver at the mere mention of WW1, considering the patriarch of the American wing of the family actively dodged conscription into the German army and was ultimately run out of Germany ahead of a Freikorps drumhead court. Add Trump's personal reasons for not engaging in small talk about ancestral profiles in courage at cocktail party's to the national uneasiness at these ceremonies, and you get a grumpy-Trump. Now don't get me wrong, America played a vital role in WW1, millions chose to fight, millions more added to the overall war effort, but history has been less kind to actual participation than it has to the overall effect. The US, while aiding the allies with cash and materiel, remained neutral until Feb 6, 1917, it wasn't until German overtures to the Mexican gov't pledging aid in the retaking of Texas, New Mexico and Arizona that the US decided to act out of self-preservation. When the GI's finally arrived on the continent in 1918, the tide was already turning against Germany, the extra manpower in the field arguably forced the Germans to surrender sooner than later, but the writing was on the wall as Germany stood no chance of victory once they realised the US and its economy would soon come to bear. It's at war's end that the American Great War romantic notions need a little more than just tempering. At the treaty of Versailles, the main combatants heaped onerous repercussions on Germany for the war, largely ignoring Woodrow Wilson's 'Fourteen Point' plan. Wilson, deciding his domestic political life was more important than post-war European concerns, let the French and British embitterment dictate treaty demands. Most historians see this as the worst thing Wilson could have done, as it gave rise to national Socialism in Germany and the likes of Hitler. Wilson's buckling at a crucial point didn't do him any good either, he went on to lose the next election which in turn led to the US not ratifying the peace treaty and subsequent failure to join the League of Nations, a global body he himself had dreamt up...

So, if Trump is allowed to speak at any events on Nov 11th, no doubt he'll make a complete shambles of it, but keep in mind, it's not his complete and utter ignorance of historical fact, some of the problem might be a national 'reparsing' of its role throughout.

" In Flanders fields the poppies blow
Between the crosses, row on row,
That mark our place: and in the sky
The larks still bravely singing fly
Scarce heard amid the guns below."

LL&P

This new AG is on very dodgy constitutional ground, but I don't expect anything but compliance from the Republicans.

The lame duck Congress will try to push through as many rich donor friendly bills as they can, and the Senate will go into overdrive with extremely partisan Judicial appointments.

This is hardball politics, and the Democrats can't bring their "high road" thinking until they are powerful enough to impose it on both sides.

Scary biscuits!

But then I remembered CW's column reminding me to pay no attention to the early numbers, and I just sat back and watched the biggest midterm win for Democrats since Watergate play out.

Bring on 2020!

I'm sorry if I've been sounding like an eeyore since the election, but I was taught by people I respect that you never celebrate until the enemy is not only defeated, but crushed to the point he can't rise back. The Prague Spring was the object lesson behind that.

So I never celebrated when unknown persons destroyed the spoofing radio beacons that East Germany employed in attempts to lure aircraft out of the Berlin corridors, or when the commanding general crossed the bridge as the last uniformed Russian to leave Afghanistan. Or when Poland broke its Soviet bonds. Or when the Ceaucescus fled for their lives. I did celebrate when they became the last Romanians ever sentenced to death, and faced their firing squads. But that was some weeks after the Wall fell and was largely just satisfying denouement.

So, lift a glass to commemorate the breach of the Wall; it was the iconic symbol of the collapse of the Soviet empire. I'll lift a glass, too, if and when Matthew Whitaker is forced to recuse and/or resign; perhaps it will be an iconic symbol of the collapse of the Trumps. I'll look ahead with anticipation when the new Congress is seated and it's the beginning of the end.

I hope you here will accept my apology when I won't celebrate this wonderful Democratic victory. It's an important battle won. It's not close to winning this war.

Beto = MDDOTW? With all due respect, that's one of the most short-sighted, and downright stupidest, things I've read on this blog, and that includes the crap that posters from the right used to put in comments.

God has smote down the jailbird. I reckon she should have prayed harder.

"I picked the wrong time to stop being a Democrat." ~ Kim Davis (R)

{fake quote}

You mean Pete Sessions, son of former FBI Director William S. Sessions... the Pete Sessions who is Washington DC's most powerful anti-marijuana official and Chairman of the House Rules Committee who uses his position to stifle amendments to protect legal marijuana, the 11-term soon to be ex-Representative of Texas's 32nd congressional district who was the recent object of a massive "get out the vote to get Pete out" effort... that Pete Sessions?

Never heard of him. ;)

http://blog.foodydirect.com/index.php/obamafavepie/

Another factor was the increase in mail-in voting meant a lot of races weren't called quickly so even more wins took hours/days to materialize.

It was pretty late before we learned Scott Walker unexpectedly lost. Etc.

Next day we had Tiny's crazy presser and Sessions firing, which, of course, kept us from being able to bask in the building wave. And then the drama in Florida and Georgia commenced. Florida triggers memories of 2000 -- which, in my view, was the event that ushered in the modern-abusive-GOP.

So Tiny's antics & Rick Scott's treachery kept us from enjoying the successes we'd achieved. Bastards.

And then, too, we're now in the lame duck period during which I anticipate a lot of bad crap as Tiny/GOP try to take advantage of their final weeks holding the House as well as Senate. So while we have things to celebrate we also have to survive the next several weeks with Tiny operating in "cornered rat" mode.

What happened with the mid-terms wasn't the end of the war. It was that we received a new shipment of ammo, troops, supplies. There's still a bunch of battles looming. I feel much better about our ability to prevail but the ultimate fights are still ahead.

JL