And he lied...

OK to be fair, it is possible that Obama had every intention of fulfilling his promise.

He is a CHICAGO Politician so I doubt it...

But if I am a fair person (and I am) I have to at least acknowledge the possibility.

And so I have....

Michale

Don't think I don't acknowledge the Right's responsibility in all this.

I do..

However I must point out that the Right didn't run on a platform of openness, transparency and changing the way DC works.

Obama did..

And he lied...

Michale

Exactly my point..

Obama and the Democrats have so poisoned the political process that even something as momentous as that barely garners a blip...

Remember, this is the guy (Obama) who ran on a platform of changing politics as we know it. He said he would make it better, make it more transparent, make it more friendly..

THAT is why I voted for the jack(gl)ass... :D

And what did he do??

And he has made the political situation 20 times worse...

Which no body can deny...

Obama and the Democrats have so poisoned the well, I honestly don't believe we can ever go back...

It's 1984 in a Brave New World...

Michale

As you said, two can play at this game.

How messed up is it that the death of Osama Bin Laden didn't even raise Barack Obama's approval rating to 60%??

:-)

Ball's in your court, I believe...

-CW

Can't argue the logic..

Other than to say what a sad state of affairs this country is in that even such an event like THAT wouldn't heal the wounds this country has, eh??

Michale

I think Atropos was definitely the young one.. :D

http://images.wikia.com/powerlisting/images/6/68/Supernatural_Atropos.jpg

But that's just me.. :D

Michale

As long as you're willing to admit you're just going on your gut, I certainly can't argue. My gut tells me that if GHW Bush hadn't secured a later release of the hostages in Iran, Jimmy Carter would have won a second term (imagine the impact in October if the hostages had been released...). But it's hard to argue "might have beens" when it's all speculation.

-CW

I hope Obama's number doesn't ever hit 90%, when you think about what had to happen for Bush to get there. I mean, y'know?

db -

I always liked the aspect of the fates of the three archetypes (stereotypes?) of women -- virgin, mother, crone. I think Clotho was the young one, but I forget the other two. Lachesis the middle one, maybe?

-CW

Damn good point... :D

Michale

The Norns are Norse mythology. They sit at Yggdrasil & weave the life & fate of men & gods. Much like the Greek fates; I'd assume.

The Narn couldn't even spin their own fate, much less anyone else's. But good catch.

Now, if you had said "the Narn" then I would have nailed it! :D

Michale

Exactly. My gut..

"Well, right now, Mac outranks your gut"
-Jeff Daniels, SPEED

:D

Michale

Damn skippy!! :D

The Norns have woven the threads of each of our lives. Or perhaps better phrased, it's better to be lucky than good.

But I'm missing the Borg reference. You've out-nerded me. Congratulations.

's OK... You stumped me w/ the NORNS reference, so we're even... :D

Michale

How's this for a bet: no matter how Obama's poll numbers drop this month, he'll still be above Bush for the month. Oh, might as well make that "for the rest of his presidency" while I'm at it.

Or, how about this bet..

No matter WHAT Obama does, he will never hit 90% approval rating, like Bush did.. :D

Two can play that game! :D

Sandy didn't move Obama's poll numbers. Romney was toast before, during, and after Sandy, sorry.

Polls Schmolls... I am talking reality, not polls... :D

Repeat after me. Polls don't mean diddley squat..

The fact that you can find a poll that "proves" exactly what you want to prove, PROVES that polls mean precisely dick.. :D

If the election were held a week before Sandy, we'd still be in Obama's second term. Period.

If the election had been held as normal and there wasn't any Sandy, we would likely be in President Romney's first term..

Of course, there is no way to prove who is right on this, but I still believe it.. :D

Michale

That should be "over 51% of the popular vote nationwide".

just to be clear.

-CW

How's this for a bet: no matter how Obama's poll numbers drop this month, he'll still be above Bush for the month. Oh, might as well make that "for the rest of his presidency" while I'm at it.

Heh.

Michale [7] -

Objective analysis my left foot. Poll numbers before Sandy: Obama takes commanding lead in Electoral College. Poll numbers after Sandy (and election results): Obama wins second term with commanding lead in EC -- first president since Eisenhower to win two terms with over 51% of the vote both times.

Sandy didn't move Obama's poll numbers. Romney was toast before, during, and after Sandy, sorry.

But, as you said, whatever helps you sleep at night, dude...

Romney never topped 250 EV once. Here, this may refresh your memory:

http://www.chrisweigant.com/2012/10/29/2012-electoral-math-one-week-out/

Obama was beating Romney like a drum long before the breeze picked up on the Jersey shore. Oh, except if you were listening to Karl Rove or Fox News, I suppose I should throw that in the mix. Because we all know how accurate their predictions turned out to be....

And wasn't Lachesis the one who measured? I'm just sayin'...

I challenged you all throughout the election to put together any winning scenario where Romney got 270 EV, and you never took me up on it then, citing your gut feeling instead. Seems like that's all you're citing here, too.

Which states flipped due to Sandy? How many states would Romney have won if the storm hadn't hit? Add it up -- it's just beyond the bounds of reason, even with Republican-weighted polls.

Repeat after me: first president since Eisenhower with 51+ percent twice in a row. Even Saint Ronnie couldn't pull that off (although he did rack up a spectacular EV total, I will admit).

If the election were held a week before Sandy, we'd still be in Obama's second term. Period.

-CW

"If Hurricane Sandy hadn't happened, we would likely have had President Romney.."

Michale, the Great & Powerful has spoken.

How dare I, the weak & puny, contradict him by using facts. i.e. the polls at the time don't support.

So, Oh Great One, why do you say that? What facts encourage you to spread your pearls of wisdom before us?

The Norns have woven the threads of each of our lives. Or perhaps better phrased, it's better to be lucky than good.

But I'm missing the Borg reference. You've out-nerded me. Congratulations.

But I only have to point to Obama's beginnings to prove that, more often than not, it's the fickle hand of Atropos that makes things go the way they go, rather than ability or competence...

We ONLY have President Obama because of a Borg drone, fer chreest's sake!!

How much more fickle can ya get!?? :D

Michale

I could ask you the same question..

I state my point clearly and without obfuscation.

If Hurricane Sandy hadn't happened, we would likely have had President Romney..

Then you come back with polls. "The polls say different" you claim..

Well, you know my view on polls. They don't mean shit.. And that view is backed up by so many facts, it would be impossible to list them all..

I'll restate my most previous statement to account for your semantic games.

Claiming that Sandy wasn't definitive in Obama's re-election is akin to saying that 9/11 wasn't definitive in Bush's 90% approval rating..

Michale

Sometimes I wonder if you get your jollies by playing these word games.

You assert (#3) that Hurricane Sandy was the proximate cause of president Obama's reelection.

I state (#6) that the tracking polls did not move beyond normal noise levels before & after the hurricane.

You respond (#7) that one can't trust polls.

If one can not trust polls; then what evidence do you have that (potential) President Romney was done in by the Hurricane? I can just as easily state that Mitt was done in by the film of his 47% comments, his wife with the common touch of Marie Antoinette, or his hopelessly confused positions on several issues.

Your response (#9) that, "Sandy had nothing to do" with the reelection is a misstatement of my position. Everything had something to do with the election. We're talking actual & proximate causes & weighting each event. You're trying to make it an all or nothing position.

Sandy certainly did not help WMR. But since the un-unskewed polls did not move significantly before & after the event; your statement that it was the defining factor is just so much moonshine.

Saying that Hurricane Sandy had nothing to do with Obama's re-election is like saying that 9/11 had nothing to do with Bush's 90% approval rating..

Michale

No effect on voting, my left arse cheek... :D

Hurricane Sandy gave Obama his second term.

It's that simple.

And any objective and politically agnostic person will tell you the same thing.

Michale

True, but I bet we will know it when we see it. And, optimist that I am, I bet we even AGREE on it..

Like for instance, President Obama's polling numbers did not shift significantly after Hurricane Sandy. President Romney was never more than a figment of his closed feedback loop.

Whatever you have to tell yourself to sleep at night. :D

But the fact is, it's likely that w/o Christie's awesome response to Sandy for Obama to play off of, he would have lost the election..

That's what objective analysis has shown...

Like for instance, President Obama's polling numbers did not shift significantly after Hurricane Sandy.

Yea and, of course, polling numbers are always the PERFECT indicators of the facts and reality, right?? :D

Remember....

AT night..

Not LAST night... :D

Michale

"Considerable"?

"Barring any outlier"?

Too amorphous for me. But then again RWMO have always been good on the fuzz-words blather & short on facts.

Like for instance, President Obama's polling numbers did not shift significantly after Hurricane Sandy. President Romney was never more than a figment of his closed feedback loop.

For an allegedly smart guy, Obama is pretty dumb..

"You are the DUMBEST smart person I have ever met!!!"
-Will Smith, I, ROBOT

About the ONLY group that would be MORE universally hated than the IRS would be the CIA!! :D

Michale

This is why Obama's numbers are going to take a hit..

You can only give the finger to the American people for so long before they start realizing, "Hay! We're getting screwed here!!"

Michale

Abso-frakin-loutly...

And dead on ballz accurate, to boot..

If it wasn't for Hurricane Sandy, we would likely be "enjoying" life under President Romney and Vice President Ryan...

Which is, ironically, how a fictitious VP Ryan became POTUS.. :D

& I'll cover that bet too.

Another bet we can never establish either way..

Obama has proven time and time again that he is a Chicago politician thru and thru..

Given that, the odds are in my favor.. :D

But I WILL make a bet with you (and anyone else who wants A PIECE OF THE ACTION :D) that Obama's approval ratings will drop considerably and his disapproval rate will shoot up this month.

Barring any outlier(s), of course...

Any takers?? :D

Michale

Crass.

& I'll cover that bet too.

Well, it IS the start of the Hurricane Season around these here parts..

I bet Obama is praying for another Hurricane Sandy...

Michale