Not sure why Joshua got so uptight about your calling him Josh. He called me Betsy in this thread! Heh. I think he thought that I was the one who called him Josh ... ;)

I apologize. I swear it said Joshua when I first typed it. Only saw it said Josh after you called me on it. Again, my mistake.

The horrific Hamas 10/7 attack on Israel was a traumatic event, in the truest sense. That attack and the real threat of more to come crystallized what Hamas is all about and that they need to be neutralized as an entity that would ever be capable of committing those atrocities again from Gaza or anywhere else.

More than 1200 Israelis brutalized and killed and taken hostage with the promise from Hamas that this is just the beginning is what is being compared to more than 30,000 dead Palestinian civilians, mostly women and children, and the destruction of Gaza as a platform for terrorists.

The question is how to square that perspective with the Palestinian struggle against occupation and loss of land and for statehood. One big problem is that Palestinians and their supporters and donors and leaders have squandered so many chances and so much money on things that have only set their cause back while Israel has long taken an approach to ensure that Palestinians will never become a political force in the land of Palestine.

Hence the intractable nature of peace in the promised land. How do we escape the seemingly endless cycle of violence? The chaos and death and destruction of the moment could provide the opportunity to move forward for all involved but only if there is enlightened and focused leadership on the issue - from all corners but especially from the US.

Maybe consider being a little more substantive?

It seems Trump hasn't got the market cornered on the concept of projection, not to mention magical thinking.

Unintentionally self-referential

There was an interesting discussion at the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace this morning, taking into account the various perspectives on what the way forward is to be from this inflection point. Like any discussion on the Middle East, it was largely depressing.

One key point that struck me as I was listening is that the way forward is almost entirely dependent upon, ah, US engagement. In that regard, Biden, who regards himself as a Zionist, has always struck me as someone who has a token degree of empathy for the Palestinian cause and who also has not, historically, been too willing to get his hands dirty in an intractable Middle East peace process.

Maybe Biden has come to his own personal and professional inflection point with the realization that he must now, at long last, lead the way out of the current chaos of the region with the understanding that the US is the indispensable nation.

Well, given that this is an anxious election year in America, one can still hope. :)

Governing Gaza After the War

If history had anything to do with forming opinions on current affairs, then there wouldn't be so much resistance around here to understanding what is actually happening and not happening in the here and now in Ukraine and Israel.

It seems Trump hasn't got the market cornered on the concept of projection, not to mention magical thinking.

You are right about one thing, though. It is pretty much a waste of time trying to engage with mean-spirited people who have closed minds. But, that won't stop me from trying to shed a little light around here, whenever the opportunity arises. I have become immune to the juvenile name-calling and democracy dies in the dark.

i am in no danger of excess blood pressure, just as you appear to be in no danger of ever becoming informed on any historical details regarding israel or ukraine that don't jibe with your fixed opinions. you don't get it, you don't want to get it, and that's your choice. after repeated attempts by myself and others to educate you have essentially been ignored and brushed aside as if they'd never happened, it's a little rich that you are accusing anyone else of refusing to engage.

JL

your opinions on israel/hamas hold zero sway with me because they are horribly misinformed.

Yeah, so you have mentioned, on occasion. That's not a great way to engage but, I do understand that if you can't engage without busting a blood vessel, then it's probably best that you don't.

The other exception (losing candidate who tried again and won) had two consecutive terms -- and beats out Trump for the distinction of being the worst human being ever to be POTUS.

Who could you be referring to if not Andrew Jackson!? Interestingly, like Grover Cleveland, that sorry excuse of a human being also won the popular vote in three consecutive presidential elections.

Mitch McConnell is stepping down as the Senate Republicans's leader and will not seek to keep his leadership position come November. Too many “Oops, I pooped my pants!” moments to let him be one of the faces of the party, I guess. No one has done more to allow the ultra-rich to buy politicians than Moscow Mitch. He will not be missed!

Israel's response is both a greater atrocity and a recruitment campaign for Hamas. The US should have made a much more vigorous effort to discourage Israel from taking this reprehensible and self-destructive path.

Israel is a long-standing ally of the US, and we should fulfill our commitments to our allies. But that leaves at least some room for greater pressure than we exerted.

Josh,

Do you feel that Israel’s response has been appropriate? Hamas is not pro-Palestine, it is anti-Israel. The death of 1200 Israelis was horrific and inexcusable. But the response by Israel has been even more horrific and inexcusable because it was not carried out by a terrorist group, it was carried out by a country that we heavily support. Almost 30,000 Palestinians have been killed and 100,000 injured since the Hamas attack in October. How many of these were actually members of Hamas is a number that I have yet to see published. They are being starved out since aid is not allowed to enter the area. Add to this the fact that they have no electricity and no clean water and you have the perfect recipe for slow and painful deaths. Their infrastructure has been destroyed.

Yes, Israel has the right to defend its people from attack. That does not justify the death toll in Gaza now reaching over 250 killed per day — more than we saw in Rwanda back in their worst days. Again, I ask you how many members of Hamas are included in these daily killings? It is not like life in Gaza had been good prior to the Hama attack.

Israel has the most sophisticated missile defense system in the world. I have never understood how someone launching a rocket from the rooftop of a Palestinian apartment building (that is shot out of the sky and does not harm any Israeli) justifies Israel giving everyone who lives in that apartment building an hour to grab what they can and evacuate before Israel destroys the entire building.

Can you imagine if a street gang in this country did a drive-by that didn't harm anyone and the police’s response was to blow up the housing projects where the gang members supposedly live? The Palestinian people are literally fish in a barrel — they have nowhere to seek refuge.

I do not know how Israel should battle Hamas to get them out of Gaza, but their current strategy is genocide and it must be stopped. It just feels like Israel is doing the same thing the US did in response to 9/11 — extreme acts of revenge that go far beyond seeking justice against those responsible for the terrorist attack.

The other exception (losing candidate who tried again and won) had two consecutive terms -- and beats out Trump for the distinction of being the worst human being ever to be POTUS.

your opinions on israel/hamas hold zero sway with me because they are horribly misinformed.

What I don't understand is what does Dean Phillips think he is proving aside from the obvious. Time for him to step aside - the voters don't want him.

They also don't want Marianne "you can manifest your own reality by thinking it" Williamson, but that hasn't stopped her from unsuspending her failed campaign. Let them waste their money, at least it's good for the economy.

Interestingly, the only president to win a non-consecutive term lost his bid for re-election against Benjamin Harrison (R) in the Electoral College but actually did win the popular vote. When the "do-over" election was held in 1892, Grover Cleveland (D), won the popular vote for the third consecutive presidential election.

So the dynamic between a president and the ex-president he defeated is rather unique for America to contemplate.

Well, we do know that (to date) no president has won two terms in office without winning the popular vote at least once. So if I was forced to place a wager on it at the current time, I would definitely not put my money on the candidate who is most likely to lose the popular vote for the third consecutive presidential election.

What I don't understand is what does Dean Phillips think he is proving aside from the obvious. Time for him to step aside - the voters don't want him.

Israel's reaction to the Hamas Horrors of 10/7 really is horribly 'over the top', by a long shot.

If there is no ceasefire in place by the end of the weekend as Biden predicted, then he better stop the unconditional military aid to Israel if he wants to get re-elected.