Ukraine is critical to the EU. It’s farmland has made it the “breadbasket of Europe.” It has many energy and other resources that are important to the world economy.

Flawed that Ukraine’s democracy is it’s cleaning up corruption which is a problem that was or still is a problem for ALL former Warsaw Pact countries.

But most importantly and what you refuse to acknowledge is that if Ukraine falls Russia will be on the border of the Baltics, Poland and Romania and will try to conquer because that has been Russia’s geopolitical strategy for centuries. That means NATO will have no choice but to eviscerate the incompetent Russian military which vastly increases the chance that Russia will initiate nuclear war.

Let me make it simpler.

Why would NATO, as an organization, wish to expand to include Ukraine?

Your nomenclature is a matter of indifference to me. Call the just-conceived human a 'zygote' or a 'billy goat', I don't care.

I intended the "sub-human" thing to be an adjective, not a noun.

Your [3] makes no sense to me.

The word "dead" has no meaning except in relation to something that was at some point alive. Nobody would say rocks are 'dead', or air is 'dead'.

Obviously the sperm and egg are 'alive', but they do not constitute a human being until they combine, and then they do.

Good for you! :)

Ukraine is not Latvia, nor is it Finland or Sweden. Which has kinda been my point throughout this tedious conversation.

I did some research and the eastern edge of NATO member Latvia is 398 miles from Moscow. The eastern edge of Ukraine is 338 miles from Moscow. That’s a whopping 60 miles closer, ahem, and not strategically significant. The invasion is simply Russian Revanchism, period.

For the record I believe that Ukraine (a) will become a NATO member and (b) will recover the 18% of Ukraine that Russia occupied in June, the date of this Timelapse time-lapse map of the territorial ebb and flow. (0:26)

“Sub-human” is YOUR word and just like “unborn child” it’s the Forced-Birthers attempt to put words into Freedom-Lover’s mouths. It’s called a fetus in the English language.

Of course, no one is 'forcing' Ukraine to do anything it does not wish to do. It is a sovereign nation, after all. Just like NATO can make exceptions to its 'open door' policy of admitting new members. No one is forcing NATO to admit Ukraine, at any time, in other words.

Whether there was ever a commitment, firm or otherwise, by NATO or by the US to Russia not to expand to within a few hundred miles of Moscow through Ukraine is really beside the point. With the point being - a question really - why would NATO want to expand its sphere of control in such a manner as that.

Now, in the current context of what is happening in Ukraine and what has happened there in the last decade, the NATO calculus, as they say, has changed. But, I still don't see Ukraine ever being admitted as a full-fledged member, nor do I see Ukraine winning back the Eastern part of its territory and Crimea by way of a war with Russia.

I did a couple searches, and found plenty of stuff with Biden saying basically that NATO gets to admit new members according to its established procedures, with only NATO members getting a veto, not Russia. I didn't find anything about trying to force Ukraine in, or whatever.

There's a statement by some high-ranking politicians, I forget who, that they didn't expect NATO to admit any countries farther east than the then-current applicants. Russia makes a big deal about it, but it was never a commitment by any national government, nor by NATO as an organization.

There's a sort-of logic to the idea that if Russia wants to conquer a country, and the country is applying for NATO membership, Russia has to act before they get in if it's ever going to. But that's not a contributing factor in Russia's decision whether to start a war, only when.

I'll go on record with my guess:

No. It will be more like every presidential election in living memory except 1992 and 2000.

Life can't begin at conception, unless the sperm and egg are dead immediately before. Are they?

LOL!