Exactly.

Well stated sarcasm. :)

You're still missing my point(s)! Sigh.

Nobody on this blog is "missing" your elementary and wholly incorrect points. Repeat: Nobody. You're just totally missing the big picture.

But, hey, we're not averse to "diplomacy" here. You should just "roll it up" and surrender to us now; it's the only way you'll have anything left after we get done with you. If you get my meaning. :)

I've never said that and I don't believe that.

at this point, putin should absolutely not be given ANYTHING he wants without exacting a heavy price for it. he has been negotiating in bad faith for twenty years, so it makes sense to presume he still is and act accordingly.

i'm not missing your points, i'm disagreeing with them and saying they're wrong.

JL

Despite my (and other Weigantian’s) efforts you are unwavering in your belief that somehow sovereign nations Ukraine and the NATOs owe Putin any obedience or even consideration. You also ignore Russian revanchism in the Georgian Civil War, Transnistria, North Ossetia, Abkhazia, Tajikistan, two wars in Chechnia bracketing war in Dagestan, the Russo-Georgian War, suppressing insurgencies in Ingushetia and the North Caucuses in general along with Crimea and the Donbas. Toss in cyber attacks along with interference in Brexit and America’s 2016 and 2020 and…

You know, you’re right: Putin is a badass and everybody should simply give him whatever he wants. *sarcasm off*

But, don't worry ... I'm close to giving up trying to explain it.

Am I really being that freaking unclear!!!

not unclear, inaccurate. you've conflated past, present and future, and presumed agreement on points that are in dispute.

when zelenskiy took office, donald trump was president of the usa, and the military conflict for eastern ukraine was already in progress. when he spoke to trump hoping for military aid to protect his country from the ongoing russian invasion, what he got was the attempted extortion of anti-biden propaganda.

the change that occurred last year was not from no-war to war, it was from war to total war.

JL

Give it a rest, Caddy. Or try acting with a tad more civility.

[23] Elizabeth Miller wrote:

Caddy,

If NATO on Russia’s border is the paramount concern of the Kremlin then they’d pack up and go home now that Finland has joined NATO, right?

WRONG! The paramount concern is NOT NATO on Russia's border but rather NATO in Ukraine. Finland is most decidedly not Ukraine - not in this context or in any other.

Yeah, only Putin apologists think Putin has any fucking say in the matter.

as to the merit of donald's initial claims of rigged voting machines, bill barr would certainly know. he's the guy who ushered in diebold electronic voting machines in 2004, and defended them at hearings where it was essentially proven that they were easier to hack than a box of cheerios.