I will explain one last time.

Do I have a promise on that? *laughs* Your repetitive postings regarding the issue are ample evidence you should get to know yourself.

Your comments in response to mine are a waste of my time to read because they do not demonstrate much of an understanding of what I am trying to communicate.

OMG! You think it's unclear what you're repetitively communicating on this forum!? *laughs* The teacher who knows his history certainly gets it. The mountain man in Cali by way of Ukraine who knows his history is without question not missing it. In fact, I haven't seen a single comment on this forum from any poster who doesn't clearly understand your point (including me and also posters who are no longer here commenting at the present time). So you might want to reconsider from which side of our Northern border that comprehension problem is emanating. Hint: Blame Canada.

So, please don't waste anymore of your time or mine until you can discuss with respect and civility and, most importantly, with an understanding of the issue at hand.

You are mistaking disagreement with "respect and civility" so in the immortal words of Elizabeth Miller: "Don't waste my time." Just kidding; you cannot and do not (it's not possible). If you continue to blame Joe Biden for Russian aggression regarding the invasion of Ukraine, you're missing the big picture in favor of right-wing drivel and spew. We can agree to disagree on this, but make no mistake, you are understood fully because you're not that complicated.

I also reiterate from my earlier post (and will do so as many times as necessary): I am touched by your confession that it's little ol' me who controls your time. I will also "do you a solid" here and let you in a secrets (not secrets):

TIME: Only you can waste it; it's actually you who controls how you spend it. If you actually believe you can control my posts or my time, then you're seriously wasting your time. :)

I will explain one last time.

Your comments in response to mine are a waste of my time to read because they do not demonstrate much of an understanding of what I am trying to communicate.

So, please don't waste anymore of your time or mine until you can discuss with respect and civility and, most importantly, with an understanding of the issue at hand.

Not sure how you assess "good faith negotiations" when successive US administrations have not only entertained the notion that NATO expansion through Ukraine was a good idea but have consistently acted toward that end.

Which is relevant to "good faith negotiations" in 2021/2022 in what way? Rhetorical question. It isn't relevant. Your repetitive whining is in regards to Biden somehow taking something "off the table" that, in point of fact, was an ultimatum of Putin's that was never "on the table." See "North Atlantic Treaty" and "Open Door Policy" (Article 10), circa 1949.

Again, I have nothing against NATO expansion, per se. But, it just doesn't make any security sense for it to expand to Ukraine.

It obviously does to Ukraine. You seem to have bought into the utter asinine assumption that Western officials have spent decades proactively strong-arming European sovereign nations into joining NATO.

Did it never occur to you that former Soviet nations and other European nations might have joined in order to shield themselves from Russian aggression? See Budapest, Hungary, revolution circa 1956 and Prague Spring, Czechoslovakia, circa 1968. Do you also think Finland and Sweden have been strong-armed by the West into joining NATO? Or did it perchance cross your mind they might have wished to join in order to defend themselves from Russian aggression?

Ukraine could have been free and independent enough OUTSIDE of NATO without any NATO bases on its territory. In fact, the great Zelensky, himself, said as much early on in this war.

As we've already discussed in prior posts, the "hot war" (props to JL) began with the ouster of Putin's puppet from Kyiv in 2014 and was escalated on Putin's orders in 2021-2022. Around 2014, Zelenskyy was literally doing overdubbing recording for playing the part of Paddington Bear in the movie Paddington, which role he reprised for Paddington 2 in 2017. In 2015, Zelenskyy played the role of President of Ukraine in Servant of the People.

Also, I cannot fathom how you (or anyone) would believe it is remotely possible for any nation to be "free and independent" of Russia if Putin has stated in no uncertain terms that he does not (and will never) recognize the existence of that nation.

So, to recap: Big picture.

Ending the war will certainly involve negotiation, so the question is rhetorical.

Exactly! All that. Very well said.

Russia is (and has been for centuries) an aggressive imperialist power. The "Open Door Policy" of NATO is a viable counterbalance for a European nation wishing to seek entry for its defense; any sovereign nation of Europe may ask to become part of NATO: Ukraine, Finland, Sweden, et alia, etcetera.

Biden didn't take anything "off the table" just because Putin demanded it. Putin's "minimum requirements" were ultimatums. Ultimatums ain't diplomacy. :)

So, it seems the overarching opinion on what to do about the security situation in Europe revolves around regime change in Moscow.

My point (and as I interpret JL's) was that Putin gets his knickers in a twist and escalates whenever there is regime change in what he perceives already belongs to "Moscow," specifically in this instance, the sovereign nation of Ukraine... but (obviously) also multiple other nations. See "Soyuz Sovetskikh Sotsialisticheskikh Respublik"... or what we North Americans refer to as "Union of Soviet Socialist Republics."

I believe regime change in Moscow is the decision of the Russian people and certainly not mine... in the same manner I believe regime change in Kyiv is Ukrainians' decision and certainly not Putin's.

Putin's views have been long held and oft reported.

You should seriously pay more attention to those views and demands.

Less attention has been paid to how the US and its allies have responded since the collapse of the Soviet Union.

Certainly not by you. Your oft repeated issue regarding the most recent escalation of war by Putin is how Biden and the United States have acted in order to facilitate it, and you're stubborn in your assertion that JRBJ somehow took something off the table during negotiations held in attempting de-escalation. You are incorrect.

As Putin amassed 100,000 troops within striking distance of Ukraine's borders while simultaneously insisting there were no plans to invade, a treaty of Moscow's demands (spelled out in full) was released by the foreign ministry of Russia.

What you need to (finally) understand is that Biden took nothing "off the table" just because it was included in Putin's laughable laundry list of demands full of multiple pretexts for de-escalation of an ongoing war he'd already escalated.

If Putin (or any nation) wishes to dictate orders regarding the sovereign nations that may/may not become part of NATO, he'll first have to become part of NATO. That's the whole idea of NATO... since inception.

Again, I have nothing against NATO expansion, per se. But, it just doesn't make any security sense for it to expand to Ukraine.

Ukraine could have been free and independent enough OUTSIDE of NATO without any NATO bases on its territory. In fact, the great Zelensky, himself, said as much early on in this war.

Ending the war will certainly involve negotiation, so the question is rhetorical. The real question is what conditions are necessary for real, meaningful negotiation to be possible for both sides. If i understand things correctly, your position is that it was possible prior to 2022, and the present Russian escalation is evidence that it wasn't effectively tried.

My position is that good faith negotiation was attempted by multiple administrations, and a resolution was not possible primarily because Putin's minimum requirements were incompatible with the existence of a free and independent Ukraine.

How does this war in Ukraine end without negotiation?

Precisely, you hit it right on the nose, Putin views all these nations (and the 3 Baltic states too) as parts of Russia that have gone rogue and need to be brought back. There's no "negotiation" with that point of view, because anything he agrees to will only last until his next opportunity to take more.

Stop wasting my time.

Since you seem intent on confessing to everyone that it's little ol' me who actually controls your time, that illustrates quite a lot without me having to explain a thing.

In conclusion regarding the issue of "my time," I regret to inform you that I will continue to post however I please because there isn't a day of any week, an hour of any day, or even a single second of any hour where you actually control mine. :)

2014 is just the beginning of the hot war period. By that time Putin had already been waging political, economic and information warfare for a decade.

Totally correct, dead on accurate, 100% fact, exactly this.

He's been pretty consistent about escalating any time he doesn't entirely get his way.

Demonstrably... so the Ukrainians overthrow of the Russian regime in what Putin admittedly views as Russian territory is what is actually unacceptable to him, to the point that he's willing to wage bloody and costly war because of it, which if successful adds an additional four actual NATO member nations on what would then become (what Putin already perceives as) Russia's Western border, namely: Poland, Slovakia, Hungary and Romania, and which would be (quite obviously) a self-fulfilling self-contradictory paradox wherein Putin achieves the very scenario he claims as a pretext to further escalation of his "hot war" in Ukraine.

Stop wasting my time.

2014 is just the beginning of the hot war period. By that time Putin had already been waging political, economic and information warfare for a decade. He's been pretty consistent about escalating any time he doesn't entirely get his way.

But, I do believe that Biden taking Ukrainian membership in NATO "off the table" guaranteed that we would never know if leaving it open for discussion would have avoided war and paved the way for a resolution to the situation in Ukraine before Feb 24th without destroying the country and Ukrainian lives.

Biden took nothing of the sort "off the table" but definitely reiterated the sovereignty of Ukraine and their right to make those decisions for themselves but also that the United States would not appease Vladimir Putin by undermining a policy enshrined in NATO's original 1949 treaty (wherein a 6-year-old Biden had no input) that grants any European nation (obviously, including Russia) the right to ask to join NATO.

Fast forward to now wherein Russia had obviously already been engaged at war with Ukraine since 2014 when Ukrainians ran Putin's puppet, Viktor Yanukovych, out of office (regime change) and into exile in Russia, whereupon Putin declared it a coup and used it as a pretext to invade Ukraine in order to "protect." Fast forward to now and Putin wants to expand his ongoing war to include -- wait for it -- regime change of Kyiv in order to "protect" it from "Nazis." Is anyone besides MtnCaddy and me seeing a pattern here?

The US has been itching to expand NATO right up to the Ukraine-Russia border for decades.

NATO has been itching to expand NATO into every European nation including Russia since 1949. Also relevant: Before expanding his preexisting war on Ukraine, Putin recited a revisionist history laundry list of Russian grievances and declared that Ukraine doesn't actually exist. In point of fact, Kyiv actually predates Moscow as a major political and cultural influence by approximately 600 years.

Hey, I was all for NATO expansion but there is a limit to the effectiveness of the expansion and a point where it does more harm than good. As is being demonstrated very clearly now.

Russia has already been at war with Ukraine under false pretext since 2014. Somebody fell hard for Vladimir's latest ridiculous pretext to expand said ongoing war since the ouster of Putin's man in Kyiv, and now here we are. I don't blame you but rather that moron you're so fond of who frequently spews right-wing talking points and totally misses the big picture. :)

JSYK I think this song sums up Putin’s attitude towards Ukraine.

Have to admit I was not expecting the J5 there, but yes that absolutely nails it.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Then you try to say you're leaving me
And I always have to say no
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Way to not miss the forest for the trees. Obviously, not unlike Joe Biden, you're not overly preoccupied with minor details and Putin's obvious pretexts regarding Ukraine that so easily distract (by design) others. :)

I thought Biden's speech the other night after the ongoing, never-ending debt crisis was averted once again was great!

It was pretty dang good. Biden displays himself above the fray while allowing his surrogates to handle the political dirty work.

How the media and some Dems like Schumer are talking about it, not so much.

What!? It's classic political "good cop/bad cop" -- Negotiation 101 -- wherein the negotiating never ceases and words spoken today are an obvious downpayment for tomorrow's next incessant negotiations. The Democrats are getting better at this every day. That whole "if I knew then what I know now" concept seems to be paying off. Biden has learned to roll these morons, and for all Trump's bloviating BS, Poor Donald obviously doesn't have clue.

They still don't get what bipartisanship is all about. And, Biden can talk until he's blue in the face and they never will.

They're Biden's surrogates, Elizabeth. It's their job to get down in the mud and rub the others' noses in it so Biden doesn't have to. There are a great many Lefties I know who have spent decades longing to see it. :)

This is worth watching:

It's better to have serious people on your team than performance artists and liars.

Definitely worth watching. There are far too many in the GOP who cannot govern because they are demonstrably "not serious people," and on that subject, I have some words of advice to offer those nonserious GOP MAGAts and morons:

* If you've spent months and months mocking Joe Biden as "senile" but now somehow find yourself whining and wondering how you got outsmarted by him, that makes you the doddering old fool.

* If you've expended a considerable amount of time insisting the debt ceiling bill is excrement stuffed between bread but then subsequently voted to pass it, you need never wonder why Americans are convinced you're full of shit.

* You're repeatedly defining yourselves.

Biden did not roll over in the face of Republican bluster.

I'm not surprised that Joe kept quiet while silently rolling the GOP, but I must say I'm really surprised I haven't heard more discussion about the huge golden nugget that Trump gifted Biden regarding the entire issue.

He did not give away the store.

The minute Trump dropped that threat basically claiming ownership of any default for Republicans, Biden didn't have to give them very much at all:

I say to the Republicans out there – congressmen, senators – if they don't give you massive cuts, you're going to have to do a default.

~ Donald Trump, CNN Town Hall

*
Trump then "predicted" a default wouldn't happen because "the Democrats would absolutely cave."

Why should they cave? Dumbass Donald just tied a default around the neck of Republicans unless "massive cuts" were made. All Biden had to do was keep saying I can't deliver the votes for the kind of "massive cuts" to Americans that Donald Trump is demanding so you have two choices:

(1) follow Trump's orders
(2) lower your expectations.

Neither the Republicans nor the press truly cares all that much about the deficit these days (as was decidedly not the case, back in Obama's time), and this fundamental unseriousness undercut McCarthy's bargaining position from the beginning.

Trump hanging the blame around the neck of the GOP unless there were "massive cuts" didn't help McCarthy either. It's hysterical how Trump keeps bragging how he's this great negotiator. *shakes head* "I can end that war in 24 hours," says Trump... who might as well be saying: "I think Americans are a bunch of stupid people."

The Democrats should be able to get a lot of mileage out of that "massive cuts" or "do a default" quote from Donald Trump; the commercials practically write themselves. :)

No, I actually don't think that.

But, I do believe that Biden taking Ukrainian membership in NATO "off the table" guaranteed that we would never know if leaving it open for discussion would have avoided war and paved the way for a resolution to the situation in Ukraine before Feb 24th without destroying the country and Ukrainian lives.

The US has been itching to expand NATO right up to the Ukraine-Russia border for decades. Hey, I was all for NATO expansion but there is a limit to the effectiveness of the expansion and a point where it does more harm than good. As is being demonstrated very clearly now.

Of course, now, all bets are off for how large NATO can or needs to be. Chalk it up to another of Putin's unwise moves and miscalculations.

Because Joe doesn’t control either Russia nor Ukraine. When the invasion began few (especially Russia) thought the war would last for more than a handful of weeks, so Joe telling Ukraine they were on their own would essentially hand Ukraine over to occupation.

You think that Joe publicly (and privately) ruling out Ukrainian membership in NATO would have stopped the invasion. But this war was always going to happen because this is the last time Russia has the manpower to try and reestablish the Soviet Union-like buffer states all around its perimeter. This has been their strategy for centuries now. Ukraine never was the final objective it’s just on the way to Poland and Romania. You know, NATO allies whom we’d have to defend BTW

Joe did what he could to stop Putin and has done a masterful job of rallying support for the good guys in this matter.

To give my disappointment with Biden more clarity, his failure to avoid war in Ukraine and the consequential negative impacts this war has had on some existential challenges facing the globe - like, for example, climate change and energy policy - is the overarching reason for my disappointment.

Am I still over the moon that he is POTUS and, with some luck, will be until 2029? Hell, YES!!! :)

I thought Biden's speech the other night after the ongoing, never-ending debt crisis was averted once again was great!

How the media and some Dems like Schumer are talking about it, not so much. They still don't get what bipartisanship is all about. And, Biden can talk until he's blue in the face and they never will. Oh, well ... perhaps, after a second term, Biden will have had more luck in pushing that idea forward.

Of course fresh blood is always needed in politics and in government and sometimes it's time to throw the rascals out, but the mixture of inexperience,incompetence and extreme ideology (mainly from the right) in Congress for the past several years is appalling. On the other hand, it has at least meant they are too incompetent to do their worst.

The newer Dems, on the other hand, mostly show signs of learning how to navigate the realities of governance in order to get closer to what they believe in, and have had effective, experienced mentors in governance to learn from.

Joe has always pitched his tent in the ideological middle of the Democratic Party (see 1994 mass incarceration Joe) and thank heaven that he’s followed the more recent (transformative) iteration of it.

This is worth watching:

incredibly good job

It's better to have serious people on your team than performance artists and liars.

this is true. slow, gradual inflation is generally a good thing for people with mortgages and such. it's the hyperinflation of weimar germany or 1990's ukraine for example, which we need to avoid.

JL

Weren't those more like 'resurrected' jobs rather that "creeated" jobs? Once the Dempanic passed on, the jobs came back on their own.

Re "inflation keeps going down."

That's utter nonsense. The RATE OF INFLATION (GROWTH) that's going down, it's damn well NOT prices that are going down. Prices are still going UP every gawdam day, just not quite as fast as yesterday or last week.

Why? How has Uncle Joe earned anything less than a B+/A-?

Leave Ukraine out of it — you are misinformed and you stubbornly refuse to engage any Weigantian about the subject, and I’ve given up trying to reach you. Let’s talk about the other stuff.

The debt ceiling deal is the latest example of Biden's genius in "getting it done" despite the razor-thin Democratic majority in the Senate and, until this year, in the House.

Biden continues to defy the (very low) expectations of the chattering classes. For a while now, I've scrolled past any article that suggests Biden is "low energy" or "too old" or even hints that he's inept or a pushover. I'm entirely happy to eat crow so long as Joe Biden continues to astonish those who count him out.

First and foremost, these Friday Talking Points are intended (I hope) to guide Democrats to do a more effective job of boasting about their accomplishments.

Secondly, too many poor and working-class Americans regularly vote against their own economic interests. Case in point is the 'claw backs' that are included in the debt-ceiling deal that just became law. One of the line items that will be canceled was to provide high-speed internet to rural communities, i.e. riders of the "Trump Train" and before that "Tea Party" members.

I think you may be right about that.

But, what really gets me is the apparent conventional wisdom that says Republicans are better at economic policy than are the Democrats. And, that simply is not the case. Which is why I can't seem to stop pushing the Republican cult of economic failure line. :)

I suspect Dems “suck” at economics messaging is because 40 years ago the Dem Donor Class decided that they, too, like Reaganomic’s tax cuts and through bleeping Clinton and Obama have deliberately failed to point out the insanity of trickle down.

Why do Dems in general not lean hard into their tax and fiscal policies and stand them up against the Republican cult of economic failure.

I just don't get it. :(

But, I doubt you'll ever hear those words about the 14th amendment from Biden. In fact, I think he secretly hopes there will be yet another such crisis to avert before he leaves the White House. Yeah! That's how much he loves bipartisanship. Heh.