Black Pearl Jam — Unplugged.

Well, I showed up. *sigh*

But Purdy was out there and we have a lot of football to go.

The 49er starting QB injured his wrist in warmups and will not play. Backup journeyman QB Josh Johnson season stats 1 - 2 for 10 yards…and just started out by being sacked for 9 yards…sorry for OUR loss, eh?

AH, well y’all play Hockey so I bet all you Canuck Gals like, er, contact sports!

Signed —

From Hockeytown and likewise has San Fran straight up

The US has been messing with Ukraine politics for just as long. And, here we are. Of course, that’s what Superpowers do, you thilly wabbit! Although I doubt nearly as much as Russia has.

In an ideal world, Ukraine with the help of the West, will be absolutely victorious with the added, ah, prize of being a member of NATO. Russia will slide back to its own internationally respected borders with little desire to do anything to strengthen its own security. The West will be satisfied, waiting patiently for regime change in Moscow - change that will be more in line with keeping the international order in place.

Close! Ukraine is being flooded with NATO equipment and every day is more integrated into NATO. Once Ukraine pushes Russia out Russia will be unable to invade anyone — see the Elizabeth’s Death March 3:35 video — there’s going to be a pop quiz!

So how do you see Ukraine NOT in NATO after winning the proxy war that Putin started? Ukraine is providing the manpower and suffers much destruction on behalf of the West, which includes the Canadian Armed Forces. Ahem.

[55]

Not Super Bowl Sunday but the Conference Championship games that select the two SB contestants. These are generally much better and more dramatic then many Super Bowl blowouts.

Bring THAT on, baby!

as john and caddy have already pointed out, ukraine WAS neutral.

Very true, as far as it goes.

Because, the US has been pushing for many decades for NATO expansion as far into the Russian sphere of influence as they could possibly go, up to an including Ukraine. The US has been messing with Ukraine politics for just as long. And, here we are.

In an ideal world, Ukraine with the help of the West, will be absolutely victorious with the added, ah, prize of being a member of NATO. Russia will slide back to its own internationally respected borders with little desire to do anything to strengthen its own security. The West will be satisfied, waiting patiently for regime change in Moscow - change that will be more in line with keeping the international order in place.

How's that for unicorns farting rainbows theory!?

;D You know I Heart You!

NATO jets to Ukraine is problematic because not only do you have to train Ukrainians on the equipment you have to set up the entire logistical structure to support this new weapons platform.

I’m not ruling such a thing out, but Soviet-era jets from neighboring countries would be far more useful.

For the record, Germany and America held hands and jumped together. (9:51)

as john and caddy have already pointed out, ukraine WAS neutral. their desire to join NATO began all the way back in 2002, but it only became urgent for them in 2014 after they'd already been invaded in crimea, and was enshrined in their constitution in 2019 after that invasion had been met with precious little concrete action from the international community, and attempts by the trump administration to use their desperation as a tool for his domestic re-election campaign.

could the invasion of donbas have been prevented by forcefully denying ukraine NATO membership? to my mind, that's a unicorns farting rainbows type of what-if. the strategy of negotiating treaties of reasonable exchange with expansionist dictators doesn't exactly have a stellar track record. the only form of communication that type of leader seems to understand is the language of military action. i believe the only US/NATO response that could have prevented the donbas invasion would have been if President Obama had found the foresight to have all those tanks and jets sent over back in 2015.

JL

Yep, you can tell that I’ve managed to keep myself in weed despite the Great 2022 Canadian Package LOST in the Mail Catastrophe.

This is a no-brainer because Russia, not Al Queda or Daesh, is our existential enemy. Remember fight them over there so we don’t have to fight them over here? Thanks to Putin’s blunder we don’t have to fight at all — not a drop of Western blood required — all we need do is give Ukraine the tools she needs to restore her borders. See Budapest Memorandum, above.

While Russia is still dangerous (1:09:16 — did you look at the 3:35 video summary, above? This defense economics and logistics Aussie Perun goes into the weeds a little bit deeper haha) and past Ukrainian successes do not guarantee future success …

I think Ukraine will drive Russia out and yes, I’ve absolutely no doubt Ukraine ends up in NATO.

Now, there is talk of US fighter jets going to Ukraine. Care to guess where that will take us all?

Of course, the German Chancellor, the one who just decided to send tanks to Ukraine, calls all the chatter about fighter jets ah, frivolous. Yes, he said frivolous. Maybe something got lost translation?

If you think this is going to end with Ukraine in NATO, you might be dreaming ...

I believe it was an article at the Carnegie Endowment For International Peace website...

Also, Canada/America/Russia/Germany and the rest of the EU have the same problem — should they resign from NATO?

What-about-ism doesn't work so well here and, no, it's not the same problem at all.

You’ve got an extreme right wing rapper from Vancouver —who’s politics I often disagree with but who’s art I enjoy.

He’s written exactly one song, Ghost. (3:21)

And it hit Billboard’s Number 1 although he doesn’t have a record contract as he’s not a fan of the industry.

Very true! And, that will certainly play against Russia in any political settlement that is reached - Ukraine's security arrangements with the US and NATO will be as critical as Ukraine's neutral status.

You’re joking, right?

In 1994’s Budapest Memorandum Russia, America and Britain guaranteed Ukrainian territorial security in exchange for the nukes Ukraine inherited from the USSR. Ukraine remained neutral, got invaded nine years ago…and you expect Ukraine to go this route again? Even Finland and Sweden have stampeded into NATO, hello.

Not quite laughable when you consider that Ukraine does indeed have a Nazi problem with extreme far right entities like the Azov Regiment now fully embedded within government and military structures.

Please cite your sources for this assertion of “fully embedded in government and military structures,” as neo-Nazis won a whopping 1.5% of the vote in the last Ukrainian election.

Also, Canada/America/Russia/Germany and the rest of the EU have the same problem — should they resign from NATO?

Yes, Ukraine is a sovereign nation. But, sovereign nations have never been able to do whatever they wish to do in their wildest dreams without severe consequences. Sovereignty is not absolute, in other words.

Indeed, Russia thought it could drive through Ukraine and subsequently into Romania, Poland and the Baltics to restore USSR-era strategic depth and place Putin up among the greats.

Also, here is the definition of “sovereign “

: possessing or held to possess supreme political power or sovereignty. : one that exercises supreme authority within a limited sphere.

I'm guessing that by victory you mean pushing Russia completely out of Ukraine, including Crimea and eastern portions it has controlled since 2014 - returning Ukraine to its full sovereignty and territorial integrity. Well, let's say they accomplish this feat, with a lot of help from their friends, and push Russia back to its own territory.

Damn straight! Anything less would be a spectacular blunder and you won’t see it happen because,

1- Ukrainian would fight with their bare hands if needed to repel this existential threat to its existence. I’m talking…picture Zelenskyy hanging by his heals from a lamppost for even entertaining anything less than total victory.

2- If Putin gets even that one square meter of Ukraine out of this he’ll simply pause, reload and resume invading his Sovereign neighbors.

Now, once 'completely victorious', all Ukraine would have to do is prevent Russia from waging war on them in the future. I'm pretty sure there is no geopolitical analyst who would tell you that Ukraine would ever be capable of preventing Russia from waging war. And, so, the war footing never ends and you not only have a long war but you have a never-ending war.

You are completely mistaken on this Elizabeth! No matter if Russia snatched victory from what is trending towards defeat Russia will never again be in a position to invade Ukraine nor anyone else again!

Will you puh-leeze just humor me and spend four minutes watching this video and tell me what he has wrong?

It is a matter of longstanding policy that no outside, non NATO member can dictate or have veto power over NATO procedures and membership.

Completely and wholeheartedly agree - absolutely, positively, unequivocally!

That isn't what I've been advocating. What I have been trying to say is that Biden and NATO and Ukraine should have had the good sense to know that you can't always get what you want ... but, if you try sometime you might just find that you get what you need!

Good Advice!

I might also point out: Russia itself violated the international agreement it had with the West, respecting the territorial integrity of Ukraine, when Ukraine agreed to give up nuclear ICBMs on its territory after the fall of the Soviet Union in exchange for security guarantees, when Russia annexed Crimea without Ukraine's consent.

Very true! And, that will certainly play against Russia in any political settlement that is reached - Ukraine's security arrangements with the US and NATO will be as critical as Ukraine's neutral status.

In fact, the main reasons the Russians gave were A) to remove NAZIS from the government of Ukraine, laughable since Zelensky is Jewish, and B) to protect ethnic Russians in Ukraine. If that's the case, why wasn't the same action taken against Estonia? Can it be that Estonia is already a NATO member while Ukraine is not?

(A) Not quite laughable when you consider that Ukraine does indeed have a Nazi problem with extreme far right entities like the Azov Regiment now fully embedded within government and military structures. Of course, Putin's claims of a Nazi regime in Kyiv are wildly exaggerated.

(B) Ukraine has been the highest priority Russian foreign policy concern, especially over the course of the last few decades, and is in a league of its own in terms of how Putin sees Russia's very existence and what's in its national interest. You just can't compare that to Estonia!

That's exactly what we are seeing right now. American leadership. The best way to end the war as quickly as possible is to see to it that Ukraine is victorious as fast as possible. That will save the most lives without rewarding a Russian war of aggression in any way.

American leadership, as it stands right now, is only serving to prolong the agony of this war, with incrementally increasing support for Ukraine that is just enough to keep Ukraine in the fight and nothing more.

How do you define victory for Ukraine? And, what would the US and its allies have to do beyond what it is doing now in order to "see to it"?

I'm guessing that by victory you mean pushing Russia completely out of Ukraine, including Crimea and eastern portions it has controlled since 2014 - returning Ukraine to its full sovereignty and territorial integrity. Well, let's say they accomplish this feat, with a lot of help from their friends, and push Russia back to its own territory.

Now, once 'completely victorious', all Ukraine would have to do is prevent Russia from waging war on them in the future. I'm pretty sure there is no geopolitical analyst who would tell you that Ukraine would ever be capable of preventing Russia from waging war. And, so, the war footing never ends and you not only have a long war but you have a never-ending war. Which, by the way, is hardly in the interests of the United States.

And, let's say the US and its allies provide everything that Ukraine needs to be victorious - up to and including troops. Then what would be the real world consequences of such an escalation?

I think the only reality-based outcome here is for a negotiated political settlement that is durable and enforceable and takes into account the interests of all parties. I think that is also the quickest way to end this war and all of the suffering and loss of life it has already inflicted on the Ukrainian people.

Apology accepted, naturally.

1) Abkhazia (Georgia)

2) South Ossetia (Georgia)

3) Chechnya ( arguably an internal Russian Federation affair)

4) Nagorno-Karabakh (Azerbaijan vs Russia and Armenia)

5) Transnistria (Moldova) - which has nothing to do with NATO membership at all, as Moldova declared itself officially neutral, like Switzerland and Austria.

6) Donbas and Donetsk (Ukraine)

7) and finally, Crimea (Ukraine)

"Finally, and for the sake of clarity, my argument is that Biden's and NATO's stance on Ukrainian membership in NATO despite decades of Russian resistance to that notion, and their insistence on not allowing that discussion to even be on the 'negotiating table' before this insanity began was tantamount to inciting war."

1) It is a matter of longstanding policy that no outside, non NATO member can dictate or have veto power over NATO procedures and membership.

2) There is no proof that NATO membership was in any way responsible or the justification of war. In fact, the main reasons the Russians gave were A) to remove NAZIS from the government of Ukraine, laughable since Zelensky is Jewish, and B) to protect ethnic Russians in Ukraine. If that's the case, why wasn't the same action taken against Estonia? Can it be that Estonia is already a NATO member while Ukraine is not?

Russian interference in and designs on the territory of, and support for separatists, Ukraine, and Georgia, and what Russia likes to call the "Near Abroad" all pre-date the war and any possible negotiations with the West.

I might also point out: Russia itself violated the international agreement it had with the West, respecting the territorial integrity of Ukraine, when Ukraine agreed to give up nuclear ICBMs on its territory after the fall of the Soviet Union in exchange for security guarantees, when Russia annexed Crimea without Ukraine's consent.

"What is needed on the world stage right now is the kind of American global leadership that will bring this unnecessary and unprovoked and terminally stupid war to an end. But, up until now, there has been no sign that it will come."

That's exactly what we are seeing right now. American leadership. The best way to end the war as quickly as possible is to see to it that Ukraine is victorious as fast as possible. That will save the most lives without rewarding a Russian war of aggression in any way. Chamberlin tried a negotiated peace with Hitler, all that ended up doing was the loss of Czechoslovakia for nothing. A negotiated Ukraine settlement with Putin will only result in something similar in the long run.

Finally, and for the sake of clarity, my argument is that Biden's and NATO's stance on Ukrainian membership in NATO despite decades of Russian resistance to that notion, and their insistence on not allowing that discussion to even be on the 'negotiating table' before this insanity began was tantamount to inciting war.

THIS IS ONLY TRUE if Russia gets to play by a different more imperialism-friendly set of rules than every other country on the planet. Russia doesn’t want [fill in the blank] in Ukraine? Tough fucking titties — Ukraine is a Sovereign nation!

This is an opinion space, number one.

And, number two, the argument I am making - which I have obviously made about as clear as mud - does indeed lack sufficient supporting evidence and that is PRECISELY the point I have been trying to make!

Finally, and for the sake of clarity, my argument is that Biden's and NATO's stance on Ukrainian membership in NATO despite decades of Russian resistance to that notion, and their insistence on not allowing that discussion to even be on the 'negotiating table' before this insanity began was tantamount to inciting war.

Can I prove the corollary, that talking reasonably with Russia about their concerns regarding Ukraine's membership in NATO would have prevented this regional security crisis from becoming an international crisis on any number of fronts and all out war?

Of course, I cannot. Would keeping Ukraine's membership in NATO, it's economic relationship with Europe and its security arrangement with Moscow ON the negotiating table made any difference in the unwise calculations that Putin
took? Who the Hell knows! And, Biden and NATO made damn sure that we'd never find out, didn't they? THAT has been my point all along.

@Liz,
What caddy is trying to communicate to you is that your argument lacks sufficient supporting evidence. You may legitimately believe you've provided it, but to our eyes you have not. If your goal is to convince anyone that a different policy might be wise, you'll need to provide some form of proof that your preferred strategy could realistically result in an end to hostilities. If you can't, you're basically shouting opinions at the wall.
JL

Putin had to bail on Kiev. He got booted well away from Kharkiv. Then he lost the only major Ukrainian city he conquered early on, Kherson. The Kerch bridge had a mysterious truck bomb explosion on it and Crimea will prove to be a death trap for Russian military forces. The inept Ukrainians have CAPTURED more equipment than they started the war with.

Yep, the Ukrainians don’t stand a prayer, Einstein.

Don't go all bat shit crazy on me just because Ukraine can't mount an offensive, okay?

2- myself and others point out our issues with your uninformed shit

3- you pull a Don Harris and utterly fail to address anyone’s point

4- wait, rinse and repeat.

What is your fucking problem?

So define WTF you think Joe or Europe or anybody besides Putin can do to end this war? Stop being a Putin apologist unless you can back your reasoning up. Otherwise I’ll just keep jumping down your throat when you blame EVERYBODY but Vladimir Vladimirovich.

You’re fucking pissing me off.

Just WHY is that so? Please be specific.

All parties involved were black so this is ZERO racism TOTAL facistic policing. Don’t go there, Elizabeth.

Biden, meanwhile, continues to show American leadership on the world stage, intervening in a stalemate over Ukraine to get some modern tanks to the battlefield in time for the anticipated spring offensive from both sides. Biden freed Germany up to send their own Leopard 2 tanks by promising to send a couple dozen M1 Abrams tanks from America. This defused the tension within NATO, and now the tanks should be on their way soon (from Poland first, most likely).

I've seen Biden show leadership on the world stage on countless occasions since I've been following his career for the last few decades, most notably on issues related to the US invasion of Iraq. His moves on the 'tanks for Ukraine' issue have demonstrated something far less than stellar leadership.

What is needed on the world stage right now is the kind of American global leadership that will bring this unnecessary and unprovoked and terminally stupid war to an end. But, up until now, there has been no sign that it will come.