If Putin invaded Ukraine to keep NATO off it’s borders, please explain “not in the universe of ideas.” What’s the difference between NATO in Ukraine versus in the Baltics and now in Finland and Sweden??

I think I can answer that in the fewest number of words by asking you if you see any difference at all in the Russian historical and modern day sphere of influence with respect to Ukraine versus Finland and Sweden.

And, why, do you suppose that for the last many decades there has been a push for Ukraine membership in NATO- and not so much for Finland and Sweden - by Biden and neoconservatives in the US national security arena?

You've done your research which should point up precisely why I wrote "not in the same universe of ideas".

Sweden and Finland joining NATO is not in the same universe of ideas as Ukraine being a member of NATO, not by any stretch of imagination.

It disrespects my good faith effort to summarize and present scores if not hundreds of hours of research on the matter — research I enjoyed, granted, but I put a lot of effort into bapping out the above on my phone.

Elizabeth Miller either do me the courtesy of telling me where and why I’m wrong or else STFU about something you know little of. Putin Apologist is not a good look, Honey.*smh*

That's what's called completely missing the point, taking your eye off the ball, conflating one idea with another unrelated one, etc. etc. etc. ad nauseam. Ahem.

NATO membership was NOT the cause of the invasion it’s Putin’s excuse for naked aggression against a sovereign state. It was geopolitics and demography that motivates Putin — and quite possibly any successor as well(!) and was almost inevitable.

Think this through with me, starting with the it’s not NATO part:

Putin already borders the NATO Baltic countries. If NATO on his border is the real motivation the Baltics is where he’d invade.

Due to corruption (and no territorial integrity since 2014, another NATO requirement!) Ukraine was many years away from joining. New members must be approved by all 30 NATO members. When I see how uncooperative Turkey and Hungary have been about admitting relatively non corrupt Sweden and Finland I think I will not live long enough to see Ukraine a full member.

Thanks to this invasion Sweden and Finland joining adds 800 miles of NATO on Russia’s border. So if you’re right shouldn’t Putin pull out of Ukraine because he’s already lost the war?

All of this assumes that the war didn’t start in early-2014 in Crimea and Donbas. Under Obama not Joe, I might add. We’ve had boots on the ground since then and it really shows in Ukraine’s performance.

Second, the effect of Russia’s geopolitical situation. Russia is long and flat and with tundra in the north and desert in the south cannot support a large enough population to garrison it’s borders. It’s been invaded 50 times and going back to Catherine the Great Russia has persistently invaded its neighbors to establish strategic depth around itself (see: Warsaw pact, simply the latest iteration of this historical strategy.) This strategic depth is why both Napoleon and Hitler couldn’t quite conquer Russia before the winters came, so it works!

Third, the demographics of Russia left Putin with a “it’s now or never” choice. Russians stopped having kids post 1991, and it’s population is aging faster than anyone’s besides China’s. Thirty years later, this is literally the last time that there will be enough fighting age Russian men to wage war. Russia will not survive the next twenty years (and neither with China.)

I’ve the time to research the hell of of this and here’s my favorite theory of the REAL reason for this war: Crimea.

Crimea is linked to Ukraine and depends on a two water canals flowing south from the Dnieper to grow food to feed its 2 million people. Obviously, Ukraine shut off the water back in 2014, so there’s that survival of Crimea thing right off the top. Moreover, pre-2022 the only connection from Russia to Crimea was the $3.6B Kerch bridge. Upon which unknown parties detonated a truck bomb in October. It’s damaged but still serviceable.

Crimea is super important because it has Sevastopol and unlike St. Petersburg it never freezes in winter. So Putin invaded to secure a land bridge from Russia through Donbas, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson. Oddly enough, he annexed them.

So I hope you understand that Joe didn’t screw up in the slightest, Putin did. Ukraine would fight back with spears and rocks before they’d be conquered and all the West has to do is foot the bill! We would be fucking idiots not to see this through to Ukrainian victory and this is certainly securing the rules based international order — dissuading China from invading Taiwan, for example.

They should have gotten rid of it if they could (Manchin was a NO, I think); they should have taken it off the table if they couldn't make it go away.

Don't count on a discharge petition. The Speaker has all kinds of ways of making that one wait a while. We learned the gory details when Boehner had an immigration bill from the Senate.

If nothing else is "successful," there's no way the donor class (and above) lets that happen. They lose way too much money. I'm guessing that as a card to hold back, Biden knows he's got that one.

Well, I have learned - the hard way - to never dismiss out of hand a decision that Biden makes about things like this because he usually turns out to be the guy who knows best.

Though, I would also have loved to hear him wax lyrical about why he thinks eliminating the debt limit would be irresponsible - I'm surprised that he didn't explain it, ad Bidenitum! :-)

I would agree that this is the biggest domestic political mistake Biden made to date.

And, I'd add that his biggest international political mistake to date with decidedly domestic political consequences was pushing for Ukrainian membership in NATO AND taking that potential (though never gonna happen) NATO membership off of the negotiating table before Russia decided to start an all-out war in Ukraine. In what is quite obviously a catastrophic way - for Ukraine, for the rest of the world and for Biden's, ah, vision for a new US-led world order.

Too bad that one of my favourite US national security advisors, Zbigniew Brzezinski (RIP) is no longer with us to advise Biden as he might have persuaded my still favourite US president to act more responsibly.

Really? I wouldn't go there. Who knows how bad it gets? There's already an "additional batch".