I am so looking forward to that - you have no idea! :)

Looks like Elizabeth is resisting the collective efforts of Weigantia to get over her insistence that a bad peace is always better than no peace.

How so?

K, Elizabeth.

Here's Zelensky's address to Congress this morning. (link provided)

You think I didn't watch it live, in its entirety?

To understand my point leave all that extraneous NATO Russia stuff out because my question was and is if America invaded Ontario and failed to capture Ontario's ten largest cities after three weeks of fighting ...and resorted to shelling Canadian civilians to break your will, how would you feel? Would you been saying these same things?

Why would America invade Ontario?

You see, you don't have a point if you leave out all of the "extraneous" NATO Russia stuff.

What's that saying ... you negotiate with the one on the other side of the negotiating table, not necessarily the one you would rather negotiate with ... or, something like that. :)

Besides, part of the deal is a security arrangement for Ukraine involving its protection, guaranteed by the US, UK and others, should Ukraine's territorial integrity be threatened again, so ...

I read somewhere today in an opinion piece that Z is quite an astute player in all of this.

I had been wondering why in the world would Z keep on asking for a no-fly zone to be implemented by NATO to protect Ukraine's airspace. Doesn't he know that there is no way in Hell that NATO would ever do this for reasons that are fairly obvious.

But, this opinion piece argued that Z knows that NATO would not and could not succumb to his demand for a no-fly zone. So, he can now say that, you know what, NATO can't seem to bring itself to help us when we need it most so, who needs NATO, anyways! He is setting up the circumstance where he can persuade his people that forgetting about NATO membership is no big deal.

I have to say, I never thought about it that way but it makes perfect sense and a good sign that Z knows exactly what he is doing and what needs to be done.

vladimir putin isn't "wrong-headed," he's pathological.

Well, I didn't say he was.

I said his worldview is wrong-headed.

I agree with Biden that Putin is a war criminal, based on the actions of his military in Ukraine.

Of course, if Biden didn't have bad timing he wouldn't have any timing at all ... publically calling Putin a war criminal just at the point in time when sensitive and fragile peace talks are going on and a deal is taking shape. But, whatever.

I don't think Biden is rejecting Putin's demands insofar as the current negotiations are concerned. In any event, Z is beginning to moderate his views on NATO membership and Putin no longer says regime change in Kiev is a goal, among other accommodations ...

I still think Biden and America's NATO allies made a huge mistake in taking Ukraine's membership in NATO off of the negotiating table - and even for ever considering it in the first place. Which was a main factor in the inevitability of this war.

JL

Russia being invaded since forever is a historical fact that all Russian rulers never forget. One answer has been to have compliant buffer states around them.

Not sure about compliant but definitely not states on their border with all of NATO's force and weaponry at the ready. :)

how exactly can you part the specific terms from the dictator and war criminal who's laying them out? if the president is using those terms, especially this president, why can't you trust him on it?

JL

"There has been little activity in the Russian invasion of Ukraine in the last 24 hours, according to a senior Defense Department official.

"We have observed naval activity in the north Black Sea off the coast of Odesa, but no shelling over the course of the last 24 hours that we observed," the official said. "And imminent signs of an amphibious assault on Odesa," he noted, adding that in terms of ground movements, the Russians are basically where they have been since yesterday."

Not sure why CNN doesn't know about this. I'm kidding.

i'm sure if we really try we could get inside stalin's head as well, but that doesn't make his positions reasonable or accommodating them a good idea.

Well, as mentioned, much of Putin's worldview is wrong-headed.

His terms with respect to Ukraine are not unreasonable nor unmanageable, with a little imagination and leadership on the part of Ukraine and its friends throughout the West.

The Russian terms, in fact, will form the basis of a peace agreement that both Ukraine and Russia can live with. But, time is of the essence - for all involved.

Well, that sounds like the ultimate date night from Hell and back! Heh.

What is with you guys and the non-serious analogies?

i'm sure if we really try we could get inside stalin's head as well, but that doesn't make his positions reasonable or accommodating them a good idea.

JL

If you agree that Putin's desire to recreate the Russian Empire is a good and legitimate goal then NATO membership would be a great impediment. However, if one believes that Ukraine has a right to determine their own future and move toward the West, then NATO membership would be a good thing for them.

I would say that Putin's goal has been to make Russia a powerful nation again and, then to keep it that way and to protect it from expansion of NATO with all the force and weaponry that NATO membership entails.

Of course, Ukraine has every right to determine its own course, politically, economically and strategically.

NATO also has every right to choose what country it wishes to admit as a member.

This war was almost inevitable when the US and its NATO allies made an incredibly unwise choice to keep Ukraine's potential membership in NATO off of the negotiating table. In fact, that alone, arguably, set everything in motion.

I have some sense of what Putin's worldview is and how his grievances have over the decades been building up against the West, particularly since the Orange revolution in Ukraine in 2004.

His worldview has been shaped in part by the humiliation that he and many of his fellow Russians felt as the Soviet Union collapsed and, while Russia was down, by the expansion of NATO ever closer to Moscow's doorstep.

Putin believes in powerful nations being able to set the rules of the road while smaller nations must toe the line. He believes Russia, a powerful nation, is entitled to a certain sphere of influence without that space being interfered with by encroachment of the West. And, a threat to any or all of this he sees as a direct threat to Russia and his reins of power. He sees US policy as an effort to undermine his regime.

This is where Putin is coming from and while much of it is wrong-headed, it isn't too difficult to understand with an eye on history.

Can't you just forget about politics for a few hours every week?

http://akadjian.com/

So Russians regard any neighbor not under it's de facto control as threatening.

Does this mean that you believe that Progressivism and Capitalism are mutually exclusive?

Not Communism, mind you. The only thing that Communism has ever done for any country is make everybody poor.

Michale you cracked me up a couple of times there, keep up the good work.

Er, just a thought: I think that a dialog with you about American law enforcement could be useful. You understand the enforcement side and I understand the consumer side. Don't say yes -- don't say no -- have your people call my people and we'll do lunch!

Yes, I most certainly get what you're saying here.

To understand my point leave all that extraneous NATO Russia stuff out because my question was and is if America invaded Ontario and failed to capture Ontario's ten largest cities after three weeks of fighting ...and resorted to shelling Canadian civilians to break your will, how would you feel? Would you been saying these same things?

I strongly doubt it.

Putting yourself in this scenario should make you understand why Zelensky and Ukraine are doing what they're doing. Heck, Zelensky couldn't stop his country from doing so even if he wanted to.

It seems plausible to me, although I don't pretend to know one way or the other, that Russia depends for its legitimacy on being seen as a worthy heir to the Russian Empire, capable of dominating its sphere of influence. If so, then it would be threatened by having neighbors who can coexist in peace whether Russia wants to let them or not.

Looks like I'm caught up.

Russia delenda est

But if you can find me something with a real shot at replacing capitalism with something better (communism doesn't count), I promise to bring a keg and a case of chips.

I heard "keg" then what?? :D

You remember David?? His posting name was Akajidan or something like that??

He always said that if someone like me and someone like him could just get together over beers , we could probably solve 95% of this country's problems..

You sound like that kinda guy too.. :D

Well, what sort of party are we talking about? I don't agree enough with either of the majors (despite disagreeing with one a lot more than with the other) to be much fun there, and third-party politics seems pretty futile as long as we have winner-take-all plurality elections. But if you can find me something with a real shot at replacing capitalism with something better (communism doesn't count), I promise to bring a keg and a case of chips.

That's the point I have always made..

It's easy to understand why Putin/Russia THINKS that NATO is a threat to Russia.. From their perspective it IS..

But, as you point out, based on the past history of NATO, it's not a rational or logical fear..

It is a purely defensive organization. If you agree that Putin's desire to recreate the Russian Empire is a good and legitimate goal then NATO membership would be a great impediment.

Good/Bad are moral judgements and depends solely on one's perspective.. Kinda like "truth"...

If we really want to stop suffering, there's no better way to do so than by leaving Ukraine to twist in the wind, so that it's forced to capitulate to being chopped up bit by bit and incorporated into the Russian Empire. Countries around the world will get the message and arm themselves, and in a couple of decades no one will ever suffer anything at all, ever. I'll stick to urban centers, so that when the end comes I'll have a good chance of being among the merely-unlucky millions who turn to incandescent gas instantaneously, instead of among the much-more-unlucky billions who die of radiation poisoning or famine over the following months. But after that, no more humans, so no more human suffering.

I bet yer a LOT of fun at parties, eh? :D

Very true....

But I get the feeling that Putin is past the "thinking reasonable" stage..

"Peter?? He was border-line for a while.. Then he crossed the border."
-Egon, GHOSTBUSTERS II

From all the available data, Putin has blown past the border...

Not factually accurate.. Zelensky is a capitalist.. All those "progressive" causes that he supports?? Legalized drugs, prostitution etc etc..

Z only "supports" those causes because he wants to regulate and profit from them..

Zelensky's wartime leadership IS remarkable and there is no taking that away from him..

But the reality is that Ukraine ranks quite near the top as Most Corrupt Governments in the world go...

And the institutionalized and systemic racism of Ukraine's government is well-documented..

Zelensky is everything that Lefties accuse President Trump of being..

The fact that destiny has but him on the moral and ethical and legal high ground doesn't change the reality of what Ukraine was before the war..

I mean, com'on.. Stacked up against Putin, Mark Pellegrino almost attains the morale and ethical and legal high ground..

Russia delenda est

1. russia grinds the ukranians down, assassinates zelenskyi and installs a puppet government that is subservient to putin.

2. russia gets bogged down and tired of fighting, declares victory and retreats.

any peace deal will only come after one of these scenarios has already occurred, and the result of the deal will reflect that outcome. yes, the two sides are in negotiations right now, but their positions are so massively far apart that compromise is downright laughable.

JL

the main goals of Ukraine and Russia are not mutually exclusive ... serious talks are ongoing to prove this; there simply is no other way out of this mess

How do you see this war ending, Joshua?

where the two sides' main goals are mutually exclusive, there's no deal possible without a winner and a loser. ukraine wants to be free and democratic; putin wants it to serve his agenda. it can't do both.

Walk on road. Walk right side, safe. Walk left side, safe. Walk middle, sooner or later, get squish, just like grape.”
~Nariyoshi Miyagi, the karate kid

JL

I still think it is doable and remains the only way to save lives.

How do you see this war ending?

With Putin or Zelenskyy dead most likely. I think if there is a peace deal that benefits Ukraine it's purely because of both the ferocity of the defense and the world jumping on board with sanctions. Nether can be scaled back in the slightest. The Russian army could just wander off if Russian logistics break down much further. They have been shockingly bad so far. Doubly so if the paychecks start to bounce...

How do you see this war ending? With a Ukrainian military victory?

Peace talks are underway in a serious manner and a way out of this mess is beginning to take shape.

The plan included a ceasefire and withdrawal of Russian troops from Ukrainian territory occupied since this war began on Feb 24th "if Ukraine agrees to neutrality and limits on its armed forces". Ukraine would also agree not to pursue NATO membership and not to host any military bases or weaponry if the US, UK and other allies agree to protect Ukraine from future assaults against its territorial integrity, as I understand it.

Of course, there is still the question of Crimea and the Donbas region and the belief that Moscow is not serious and cannot be believed. One Ukrainian official said that pressure must continue on Russia - militarily and otherwise - to force them to reach a deal. It's hard to argue with that.

In any event, the most important thing right now is to get to a ceasefire and withdrawal of Russian troops and then the stickier parts of a final peace deal can be worked out.

It's not a total match as Ukraine is a completely different country but from his Wikipedia page:

Zelenskyy supports the free distribution of medical cannabis, free abortion in Ukraine, and the legalisation of prostitution and gambling.[204] He opposes the legalisation of firearms.[204]

I suspect he may change his tune on that last one if he manages to survive this war but even with the rest it's been hilarious watching the right dance around it. Tough spot, everyone loves and plucky underdog even if the politics don't match...

I think you are completely wrong there. I think Putin has always been negotiating in bad faith and the Russian "terms" is the return of as much of the Soviet Union as Putin can manage. The center piece of that being the control of Ukraine. Russia's "neutrality" is purely in name only. Zelenskyy leaves or he dies if he takes the deal. For Ukraine it's now the real choice between the wealth and freedom of Europe and the west or returning to a Russian vassal state.

How much blood is that worth? In WWI and WWII that was measured in millions. So far in Ukraine it's measured in thousands.

Plus, I think the current gambit is not long term survival but make it so painful for the Russian people they deal with the problem on their own. It may have been unseemly for him to say it but Lindsey Graham was not wrong. This ends with Putin leaving power and he does not have a retirement plan.

Also keep in mind Israel really does not want Iran selling oil openly on the world market. A quick end to the war might prevent that. And there are still large populations of Jews in both Russia and Ukraine. A quick end would be good for them as well.

My heart breaks for everyone in Ukraine - they are suffering unimaginable horror and that is just the people who have managed to get out. The ones who are left there must bear even greater suffering. All for a completely unnecessary and unjustified war.

You ask me how I would feel and would I be saying the same things if America invaded Canada. Well, in that little scenario of yours you fail to mention that Canada had pulled out of NATO and was taking up Russia on its offer to enter into a joint security arrangement with the goal of destabilizing a still democratic America.

You might imagine that I would be strongly advocating against war and against my country joining with Russia. I would advocate for my country to come to its senses and not leave NATO and not join Russia! And, in the case of an invasion when Canada and Russia refused to say that they would not be entering into a security arrangement and that Canada would remain neutral, I would be strongly advocating for a negotiated way out of our mess. A mess which came about because of incompetent leadership on the part of Russia and Canada in not recognizing the completely reasonable and manageable terms given by America.

So, you see where I am coming from now?

Sounds like that's light years away from where things stood before the invasion, no?

How in your world does this invasion not guarantee Ukrainian membership in NATO, along with Finland, Sweden and likely Austria? Malta, Cyprus and Ireland taking their chances.

And now... for something completely different...

If America invaded Ontario and failed to capture Ontario's ten largest cities (not even capturing Windsor after three weeks of fighting) and resorted to shelling Canadian civilians to break your will, how would you feel? Would you been saying the same things?

No, things won't be the same as before the invasion.

Sounds like that's light years away from where things stood before the invasion, no?

How in your world does this invasion not guarantee Ukrainian membership in NATO, along with Finland, Sweden and likely Austria? Malta, Cyprus and Ireland talking their chances.

If this was happening to Canada and not Ukraine how would you feel?

The Euros and a Lead from Behind Obama intervened to stop Gaddafi from bombing his own citizens in Lybia.

Saving innocent life in Ukraine lacks is not so imperative, it seems...

The only way Ukraine gets out of this mess alive and somewhat intact is through negotiations with Russia. And, the Russian terms have been crystal clear over the past few months and, indeed, for 30 years!

The Israeli PM Naftali Bennett, acting as a go-between, presented Zelensky with these well-known and not unreasonable Russian terms and Z soundly rejected them. Worse than that, someone on his team told the Israeli press that they amounted to no more than 'surrender'. Which, of course, could not be further from the truth and so, Z walked back that nonsense in a tweet.

The leadership being provided by NATO and the US has been less than stellar, too. Their insistence on keeping open the promise of NATO membership for Ukraine is part of what got Ukraine into this war in the first place.

Now, Zelenskyy can show some real leadership by ending this unnecessary war with some simple language that Ukraine will remain neutral and never seek NATO membership. He is coming closer to such an announcement and negotiations seem to be getting serious.

Not a great time for Biden to call Putin a war criminal, though but, what are you gonna do when there is such a paucity of leadership all around?

Here's Zelensky's address to Congress this morning.

Yes it's (16:56) but I think you'll see why Weigantia disagrees with you on Ukraine. Also, how did Biden fail in this situation?