As I listened to NPR in the car yesterday, all these stories came up about various groups in Afghanistan and how their lives would now be different/destroyed. Every time I had the same thought: Ya, that's bad, but evidently not bad enough to fight the Taliban. America was not the only ones who had 20 years to do something.

Exactly right.

It is no more blame-shifting than blaming those unvaccinated right-wing science deniers and so-called "freedom fighters" who've suffered the consequences of their choice of refusing to vaccinate. We all suffer

Your freedumb to choose ain't "free"
It never has been
And likely never will be.

You mean I'd get to subject Weigantia to my all time favorite musician, Paul Simon?

You could do that every Sunday night, ya know ...

America was not the only ones who had 20 years to do something.

You hit the nail on the head right there! I'm positive that this is what frustrated Biden so much about Afghanistan, from the top leadership on down.

Does anybody know what constitutes long term success for the Taliban?

Of course. And, it's not just about staying in power.

As I listened to NPR in the car yesterday, all these stories came up about various groups in Afghanistan and how their lives would now be different/destroyed. Every time I had the same thought: Ya, that's bad, but evidently not bad enough to fight the Taliban. America was not the only ones who had 20 years to do something.

violence for political ends by individuals or non-state actors is called terrorism. violence for political ends by a state, especially within that state, is called policing.

JL

Does anybody know what constitutes long term success for the Taliban? Other than staying in power? As to terrorism, the Taliban practice it routinely. They ratchet it up and down.

Yes. And I invite you to let your imagination run wild about MtnCaddy, high up in the mountains in the world capital of weed, Country-Cali -- woot!

You mean I'd get to subject Weigantia to my all time favorite musician, Paul Simon?

To put my love in perspective...
Sure I was bummed that the Beatles broke up. But I was devastated when Simon and Garfunkel went their separate ways.

In honour of TS, how about we focus on our favourite songwriters this Sunday night ...

Oh, so the Taliban is less trustworthy than, say, the United States? Ask the Kurdish allies that Trump screwed in Syria how trustworthy we are before you cast insults.

The Taliban have enormous incentive to "play nice." They need international support and a minimum of incoming cruise missles so I don't expect much in the way of atrocities (especially to Americans.)

Dammit -- you mean Joe evacuated Americans from Lake Tahoe and left our Afghani allies behind?

Jesus, you'd think Joe would get the hang of this evacuation thing by now!;D

FYI I live roughly 75 miles east of Los Angeles and over a mile in the air. Thanks, Elizabeth.

Without predicting the future of Afghan politics, my understanding is that for now the war is over within the country as well. The Taliban won, and rules as much as anyone rules a country like that. So the war does not, in fact, "continue for the Afghans".

I hope you are not anywhere near Lake Tahoe ... just heard that all Americans have been evacuated due to wildfires!

Yeah, it's pretty much over, especially if Biden is re-elected. Heh.

However, US engagement with Afghanistan in a diplomatic sense has really just begun. And, that is not to take away any of the great work American diplomats have achieved in Afghanistan over the course of the last couple of decades. In fact, all of that work will put the State Department in good stead, going forward.

I'm hoping that new meaning will be given to my most favourite Biden quote:

"The US leads best when it leads by the power of its
example and not just by the example of its power."

This new "diplomatic mission" is going to be very interesting to watch unfold ...

If one were to limit ones definition of "war" to high intensity conflict, then it would be most accurate to say that indeed the war is over for America and her allies, but it continues for the Afghanis.

The most honest evaluation would be that with the withdrawal of troops the high intensity combat phase of the "forever war" has ended and will now continue on as a low intensity conflict (i.e. drone strikes, cruise missiles, occasional incursions by JSOC operators) for the foreseeable future.

No matter who is in charge, or the state of conflict, the Afghanis still have to live with the societal maladies of war.

So ask yourself, is it really over?

So true! However, the US has a keen interest in having the Taliban succeed. And, so, national interests collide and overlap. Not only because of the effort to get out any remaining Americans and Afghan allies who wish to leave but, because the US needs a functioning Taliban government now to work with to ensure that Afghanistan doesn't become a safe haven for terrorits again.

If any American citizens get killed in revenge over the next few weeks, Biden will likely pay a heavy political price (to state the obvious).

Indeed!