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	<title>Comments on: Section 230?  More Like Section 8...</title>
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	<description>Reality-based political commentary</description>
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		<title>By: ListenWhenYouHear</title>
		<link>http://www.chrisweigant.com/2020/12/29/section-230-more-like-section-8/#comment-173139</link>
		<dc:creator>ListenWhenYouHear</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 31 Dec 2020 00:17:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chrisweigant.com/?p=19803#comment-173139</guid>
		<description>I think people fail to recognize Trump’s motivation behind this push:  Trump doesn’t give a shatburger about free speech; he just wants to be able to seek vengeance (READ - lawsuits seeking $$$$$)  on anyone that says/posts anything hurtful about HIM!!!   

Yes, this would result in a majority of his own posts getting blocked — which is one hurt feeling.   But it would let him sue big corporations that allow mean things to be posted about him and would cost these corporations massive amounts of money — that’s two things that bring Trump the most joy!   -1 + 2 = 1... so it is still a win for Trump!  

This has always been about giving Trump the ability to hurt anyone he feels deserves to be hurt.   He knows how to play the lawsuit game to hurt his enemies — one of the only master classes that Trump University could have offered that would have been worth the fee.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think people fail to recognize Trump’s motivation behind this push:  Trump doesn’t give a shatburger about free speech; he just wants to be able to seek vengeance (READ - lawsuits seeking $$$$$)  on anyone that says/posts anything hurtful about HIM!!!   </p>
<p>Yes, this would result in a majority of his own posts getting blocked — which is one hurt feeling.   But it would let him sue big corporations that allow mean things to be posted about him and would cost these corporations massive amounts of money — that’s two things that bring Trump the most joy!   -1 + 2 = 1... so it is still a win for Trump!  </p>
<p>This has always been about giving Trump the ability to hurt anyone he feels deserves to be hurt.   He knows how to play the lawsuit game to hurt his enemies — one of the only master classes that Trump University could have offered that would have been worth the fee.</p>
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		<title>By: C. R. Stucki</title>
		<link>http://www.chrisweigant.com/2020/12/29/section-230-more-like-section-8/#comment-173138</link>
		<dc:creator>C. R. Stucki</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Dec 2020 22:05:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chrisweigant.com/?p=19803#comment-173138</guid>
		<description>John M

Valid points.  I presume Trump resents the fact that his &quot;bully pulpit&quot; isn&#039;t nearly AS &quot;bully&quot; as Twitter&#039;s.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>John M</p>
<p>Valid points.  I presume Trump resents the fact that his "bully pulpit" isn't nearly AS "bully" as Twitter's.</p>
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		<title>By: John M from Ct.</title>
		<link>http://www.chrisweigant.com/2020/12/29/section-230-more-like-section-8/#comment-173137</link>
		<dc:creator>John M from Ct.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Dec 2020 21:58:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chrisweigant.com/?p=19803#comment-173137</guid>
		<description>C. R. on [13]
My understanding is that when a private media provider refuses to publish something you want to say, your right to free speech has not been infringed. You have the right to seek another public outlet, to stand in front of town hall and spout off, or even start your own media provider company and say whatever you want. If no one wants to publish your thoughts because they find them offensive, that&#039;s their right as private entities, and you just have to find someone who doesn&#039;t find them offensive or do it yourself.

The government censors free speech by shutting it down, and taxing, jailing, or otherwise legally sanctioning the speaker, with the force of law not opinion. You can&#039;t look elsewhere for another outlet because you&#039;re in jail, or have moved to another country to escape the censorship. Not the same as being banned from Twitter.

If Trump is thrown off of Twitter on January 21, his right of free speech hasn&#039;t been infringed in the slightest. He just can&#039;t speak on Twitter, that&#039;s all. Sure, he finds Twitter valuable and convenient to him and his political agenda, but his right to free speech means he just has to find a more amenable social media network, or start his own.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>C. R. on [13]<br />
My understanding is that when a private media provider refuses to publish something you want to say, your right to free speech has not been infringed. You have the right to seek another public outlet, to stand in front of town hall and spout off, or even start your own media provider company and say whatever you want. If no one wants to publish your thoughts because they find them offensive, that's their right as private entities, and you just have to find someone who doesn't find them offensive or do it yourself.</p>
<p>The government censors free speech by shutting it down, and taxing, jailing, or otherwise legally sanctioning the speaker, with the force of law not opinion. You can't look elsewhere for another outlet because you're in jail, or have moved to another country to escape the censorship. Not the same as being banned from Twitter.</p>
<p>If Trump is thrown off of Twitter on January 21, his right of free speech hasn't been infringed in the slightest. He just can't speak on Twitter, that's all. Sure, he finds Twitter valuable and convenient to him and his political agenda, but his right to free speech means he just has to find a more amenable social media network, or start his own.</p>
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		<title>By: Elizabeth Miller</title>
		<link>http://www.chrisweigant.com/2020/12/29/section-230-more-like-section-8/#comment-173136</link>
		<dc:creator>Elizabeth Miller</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Dec 2020 21:07:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chrisweigant.com/?p=19803#comment-173136</guid>
		<description>... if you haven&#039;t already, that is. :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>... if you haven't already, that is. :)</p>
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		<title>By: Elizabeth Miller</title>
		<link>http://www.chrisweigant.com/2020/12/29/section-230-more-like-section-8/#comment-173135</link>
		<dc:creator>Elizabeth Miller</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Dec 2020 21:07:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chrisweigant.com/?p=19803#comment-173135</guid>
		<description>Chris ... and, everyone!

You&#039;re so close to target on the pledge drive!.

Somebody, please chip in a little to keep this fine site commercial free!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Chris ... and, everyone!</p>
<p>You're so close to target on the pledge drive!.</p>
<p>Somebody, please chip in a little to keep this fine site commercial free!</p>
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		<title>By: C. R. Stucki</title>
		<link>http://www.chrisweigant.com/2020/12/29/section-230-more-like-section-8/#comment-173133</link>
		<dc:creator>C. R. Stucki</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Dec 2020 17:41:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chrisweigant.com/?p=19803#comment-173133</guid>
		<description>CW

It seems to me that either you or I are/am misunderstanding/misinterpreting the Sec 230 thing.  The Wikipedia article on Sec 230 says,  Section 230 provides protection from liability for internet providers in the removal of material deemed offensive, even if protected as 1st amendment free speech,  &quot;AS LONG AS IT IS DONE IN GOOD FAITH&quot;.

But you say &quot;Only gov&#039;ts can censor free speech&quot;, and &quot;Private companies do not have the power (to censor free speech) and never have&quot;.

Do you not see a contradiction there?  I&#039;m guessing that  what Trump wants to do is eliminate the ability of Facebook and Twitter to censor his stuff by claiming they&#039;re doing it &quot;in good faith&quot;, obviously implying that he considers their efforts to be in &quot;bad faith&quot;, and he does seem to have a valid point there.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>CW</p>
<p>It seems to me that either you or I are/am misunderstanding/misinterpreting the Sec 230 thing.  The Wikipedia article on Sec 230 says,  Section 230 provides protection from liability for internet providers in the removal of material deemed offensive, even if protected as 1st amendment free speech,  "AS LONG AS IT IS DONE IN GOOD FAITH".</p>
<p>But you say "Only gov'ts can censor free speech", and "Private companies do not have the power (to censor free speech) and never have".</p>
<p>Do you not see a contradiction there?  I'm guessing that  what Trump wants to do is eliminate the ability of Facebook and Twitter to censor his stuff by claiming they're doing it "in good faith", obviously implying that he considers their efforts to be in "bad faith", and he does seem to have a valid point there.</p>
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		<title>By: Elizabeth Miller</title>
		<link>http://www.chrisweigant.com/2020/12/29/section-230-more-like-section-8/#comment-173132</link>
		<dc:creator>Elizabeth Miller</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Dec 2020 16:23:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chrisweigant.com/?p=19803#comment-173132</guid>
		<description>JFC[9],

I agree! 

Well, I actually wouldn&#039;t want to see FB go completely away. But, it could be a very pleasant place for people like me who use it only to share and chat about/with music and musicians ... and the like. The rest of it and all of twitter can go away.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>JFC[9],</p>
<p>I agree! </p>
<p>Well, I actually wouldn't want to see FB go completely away. But, it could be a very pleasant place for people like me who use it only to share and chat about/with music and musicians ... and the like. The rest of it and all of twitter can go away.</p>
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		<title>By: John From Censornati</title>
		<link>http://www.chrisweigant.com/2020/12/29/section-230-more-like-section-8/#comment-173129</link>
		<dc:creator>John From Censornati</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Dec 2020 13:22:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chrisweigant.com/?p=19803#comment-173129</guid>
		<description>Senate Dems should go ahead and swallow McConnell&#039;s poison pill. It&#039;s way past time to remove the sludge from Twitter and Facebook. It would be OK if they dried up and blew away.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Senate Dems should go ahead and swallow McConnell's poison pill. It's way past time to remove the sludge from Twitter and Facebook. It would be OK if they dried up and blew away.</p>
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		<title>By: John From Censornati</title>
		<link>http://www.chrisweigant.com/2020/12/29/section-230-more-like-section-8/#comment-173128</link>
		<dc:creator>John From Censornati</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Dec 2020 13:18:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chrisweigant.com/?p=19803#comment-173128</guid>
		<description>When I think of Section 8, I think of HUD&#039;s Section 8 affordable housing program.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>When I think of Section 8, I think of HUD's Section 8 affordable housing program.</p>
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		<title>By: MtnCaddy</title>
		<link>http://www.chrisweigant.com/2020/12/29/section-230-more-like-section-8/#comment-173127</link>
		<dc:creator>MtnCaddy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Dec 2020 06:12:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chrisweigant.com/?p=19803#comment-173127</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ve been occasionally checking in on the comments sections in &lt;a href=&quot;https://www.foxnews.com/politics&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Fox News,&lt;/a&gt; &lt;a href=&quot;https://www.oann.com/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;
 OANN,&lt;/a&gt; &lt;a href=&quot;https://www.newsmax.com/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;
Newsmax&lt;/a&gt; and, this evening, 
&lt;a href=&quot;https://www.breitbart.com/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt; Breitbart.&lt;/a&gt;



Not trolling, mind you, just in case &lt;i&gt;stupid rubs off,&lt;/i&gt; and I would say you can&#039;t imagine the insanity of most of the Trumpanzies. Except...alas, you can imagine.*sigh*






Many of the Breitbartians believe Fox News has went full-on Communist. Really, I think that&#039;s an insult to Communism.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I've been occasionally checking in on the comments sections in <a href="https://www.foxnews.com/politics" rel="nofollow">Fox News,</a> <a href="https://www.oann.com/" rel="nofollow"><br />
 OANN,</a> <a href="https://www.newsmax.com/" rel="nofollow"><br />
Newsmax</a> and, this evening,<br />
<a href="https://www.breitbart.com/" rel="nofollow"> Breitbart.</a></p>
<p>Not trolling, mind you, just in case <i>stupid rubs off,</i> and I would say you can't imagine the insanity of most of the Trumpanzies. Except...alas, you can imagine.*sigh*</p>
<p>Many of the Breitbartians believe Fox News has went full-on Communist. Really, I think that's an insult to Communism.</p>
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		<title>By: MtnCaddy</title>
		<link>http://www.chrisweigant.com/2020/12/29/section-230-more-like-section-8/#comment-173126</link>
		<dc:creator>MtnCaddy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Dec 2020 04:21:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chrisweigant.com/?p=19803#comment-173126</guid>
		<description>Reaganism has trashed the American Dream for most of us. If Bernie Sanders doesn&#039;t win your &lt;b&gt;Most Honest&lt;/b&gt; category for 2020, I nominate him for a &lt;b&gt;Lifetime Achievement Award for Most Honest&lt;/b&gt; as he&#039;s been railing against Reaganism for decades now.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Reaganism has trashed the American Dream for most of us. If Bernie Sanders doesn't win your <b>Most Honest</b> category for 2020, I nominate him for a <b>Lifetime Achievement Award for Most Honest</b> as he's been railing against Reaganism for decades now.</p>
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		<title>By: MtnCaddy</title>
		<link>http://www.chrisweigant.com/2020/12/29/section-230-more-like-section-8/#comment-173125</link>
		<dc:creator>MtnCaddy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Dec 2020 04:17:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chrisweigant.com/?p=19803#comment-173125</guid>
		<description>[1]






A little lite research indicates that Repugs have tried to alter or revoke Sec. 230 going back before this last minute imbroglio because they claim that social media is somehow&quot;unfair&quot; to Conservatives. So the sentiment is not new.






But #MoscowMitch introduced legislation in the Senate today to do just that. IMO this is a &quot;poison pill&quot; maneuver on his part to Scotch the $1,400 add-on to the second stimulus check of $600. We can&#039;t have a decent stimulus that would help Joe Biden with the American economy, can we?





What a douchebag.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[1]</p>
<p>A little lite research indicates that Repugs have tried to alter or revoke Sec. 230 going back before this last minute imbroglio because they claim that social media is somehow"unfair" to Conservatives. So the sentiment is not new.</p>
<p>But #MoscowMitch introduced legislation in the Senate today to do just that. IMO this is a "poison pill" maneuver on his part to Scotch the $1,400 add-on to the second stimulus check of $600. We can't have a decent stimulus that would help Joe Biden with the American economy, can we?</p>
<p>What a douchebag.</p>
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		<title>By: MtnCaddy</title>
		<link>http://www.chrisweigant.com/2020/12/29/section-230-more-like-section-8/#comment-173124</link>
		<dc:creator>MtnCaddy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Dec 2020 04:03:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chrisweigant.com/?p=19803#comment-173124</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t think that Trump &quot;takes careful aim&quot; at anything. He just blathers out whatever hops into his Covid-ridden mind. 





And alas, we still have 2 days, 4 hours and half a minute -- Left Coast Time* -- to do something stupider in 2020. As I warned previously, &quot;We ain&#039;t out of the woods yet!&quot;





*Or, as I like to tease my BFF who lives in Cleveland, LBT. Which means LeBron Time, as he&#039;s now an LA Laker.




At least I &lt;i&gt;think he&#039;s still my BFF</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don't think that Trump "takes careful aim" at anything. He just blathers out whatever hops into his Covid-ridden mind. </p>
<p>And alas, we still have 2 days, 4 hours and half a minute -- Left Coast Time* -- to do something stupider in 2020. As I warned previously, "We ain't out of the woods yet!"</p>
<p>*Or, as I like to tease my BFF who lives in Cleveland, LBT. Which means LeBron Time, as he's now an LA Laker.</p>
<p>At least I <i>think he's still my BFF</i></p>
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		<title>By: Elizabeth Miller</title>
		<link>http://www.chrisweigant.com/2020/12/29/section-230-more-like-section-8/#comment-173116</link>
		<dc:creator>Elizabeth Miller</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Dec 2020 00:20:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chrisweigant.com/?p=19803#comment-173116</guid>
		<description>John,

&lt;i&gt;Surely the conservative media mavens can see that, even if Trump can&#039;t - they (like most people) are a lot smarter than he when it comes to gaming out future consequences of flashy attention-getting statements.&lt;/i&gt;

I&#039;m not so sure that we can make that assumption, currently. Ahem.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>John,</p>
<p><i>Surely the conservative media mavens can see that, even if Trump can't - they (like most people) are a lot smarter than he when it comes to gaming out future consequences of flashy attention-getting statements.</i></p>
<p>I'm not so sure that we can make that assumption, currently. Ahem.</p>
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		<title>By: Elizabeth Miller</title>
		<link>http://www.chrisweigant.com/2020/12/29/section-230-more-like-section-8/#comment-173115</link>
		<dc:creator>Elizabeth Miller</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Dec 2020 00:18:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chrisweigant.com/?p=19803#comment-173115</guid>
		<description>More like section 8, indeed! Heh.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>More like section 8, indeed! Heh.</p>
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		<title>By: John M from Ct.</title>
		<link>http://www.chrisweigant.com/2020/12/29/section-230-more-like-section-8/#comment-173114</link>
		<dc:creator>John M from Ct.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Dec 2020 23:30:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chrisweigant.com/?p=19803#comment-173114</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t think Trump is the only Republican who thinks (or says he does) that social media presently discriminates against conservative or right-wing posts. But are any other voices besides the president advocating for abolition of Section 230, hoping to free up conservatives&#039; ability to post whatever they want? Is he alone in this one, or is he fronting for a corps of angry conservative opinion-makers and office-holders?

Because I&#039;ve long seen the consequences in the same terms as you do here. Legal liability for the platform means good-bye to almost any wild-eyed political or social discourse, of whatever stripe. Surely the conservative media mavens can see that, even if Trump can&#039;t - they (like most people) are a lot smarter than he when it comes to gaming out future consequences of flashy attention-getting statements.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don't think Trump is the only Republican who thinks (or says he does) that social media presently discriminates against conservative or right-wing posts. But are any other voices besides the president advocating for abolition of Section 230, hoping to free up conservatives' ability to post whatever they want? Is he alone in this one, or is he fronting for a corps of angry conservative opinion-makers and office-holders?</p>
<p>Because I've long seen the consequences in the same terms as you do here. Legal liability for the platform means good-bye to almost any wild-eyed political or social discourse, of whatever stripe. Surely the conservative media mavens can see that, even if Trump can't - they (like most people) are a lot smarter than he when it comes to gaming out future consequences of flashy attention-getting statements.</p>
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