rum is often my spirit of choice as well.

Best rum you've ever tasted? I'll go first:

La Favorite Cuvée la Flibuste

Oh... that rum.... it's good stuff. Pricey too but worth every dollar. :)

when most are more concerned about their own jobs and families than they are about the integrity of their profession, it only takes a couple. which brings us back to the whole "why don't you get over your pneumonia and bring me my meatloaf" question.

JL

So, what is the remedy? I don't want to believe that PBS is a part of that so, don't tell me it is. :)

that builds a culture of fear among members of the press, and anyone who isn't afraid is sent packing

Well, they can't send ALL of them packing, can they?

Next, the producers will pay somebody to take it off their hands as we are through the looking glass.

https://www.who.int/news-room/detail/20-04-2020-itu-who-joint-statement-unleashing-information-technology-to-defeat-covid-19

Might a fear of reprisals and more general lack of courage have something to do with it?

The Governors are too busy trying to keep people alive and procuring federal help to worry about presidential accountability.

And, the WH press corps, more visible than ever, lately, is no match for Trump. NOT EVEN CLOSE. Day after day after day – ad particular nauseam – Trump eats them for dinner and then spits them out on national television.

What about the responsibility of the electorate in holding the president accountable? We can dream.

Can you help me explain how it is that the Trump (mal)administration could dismantle a national security system for dealing with viral pandemics and shake off responsibility and avoid accountability for a glaring failure to respond in a timely manner to the outbreak?

well... yes, all politics have a personal component and a broader ideological component, just as all politics are both local and global. however, the degree to which each component has influence does vary.

my impression of stucki's attitude toward covid is that it's a lot more heavily weighted toward the "how will this affect me personally" side than the "how will this change the world" side.

JL

This is why national unity is so important in fighting this virus and other similarly dangerous respiratory pathogens.

When there is national unity regional cooperation and global solidarity can follow. That what we mean when we say we are all in this together and we will beat this virus only if we act together.

are you certain of that? my sense coming from CRS is that it's more personal than political.

@CRS,
that impression is mistaken. Although I know five people who have lost someone to covid-19, i also know two who have had family deaths due to other causes this spring. we still have cancer, diabetes and heart attacks, although there HAS been a precipitous drop in car crashes, gun violence, and pretty much every other form of death that requires one to go outside one's own home.

JL

What happens if a governor declares a re-opened state economy and hardly anybody shows up at the places of business? Maybe the folks in the red ass hats give it a go - but it's one thing to protest in the open air, or from your car idling in the open air, but quite another thing to actually start shopping within sneezing distance of your fellow man/woman/child. I think even Trump's Finest might give it a pass until they can see how things work out - infection wise.

Same body of law applies to sporting events, restaurants and bars, office space, assembly lines, barbers, Drs. and Dentists.

There are so many details getting glossed over:

What about protective gear? Are we supposed to get by with bandanas for masks and sandwich bags for gloves? I still can't buy either. Does it matter?

What about money? If you haven't got any you can't participate as a paying customer. A lot of Americans are recently out of work and therefore broke. The $1200 they got, if they got it, has already been spent on credit and the bank has taken some or all of that windfall. It just doesn't look like a good business climate right now.

Opening beaches is easy for a governor. Resuscitating a sick national economy is much harder and governors can't just snap their fingers to make it happen. Governors are going to be looking carefully at how Trump is polling in their state before they charge up the hill in support of some half baked/over hyped Trump promise.

No "agenda", more like skepticism of the "evidence". No healthy people (and damn few unhealthy people) seem to be dying of corona where I live, but I have the impression that every single person that dies in NYC these days is miraculously done in by the new virus, because it "makes better news". NYC has evidently abolished cancer, diabetes, heart attacks, and car crashes.

"No, actually my reason would be closer to not causing the country to experience financial collapse/recession over people's sniffles."

I believe a rampaging virulent pneumonia that left unchecked collapses both the economy and the healthcare system at the same time, is a lot more serious than just the "sniffles" right??? Because that is what we got.

Which begs the question, what is your agenda in trying to downplay this so much, in the face of all the medical evidence to the contrary???

I miss ya, buddy.

https://www.who.int/dg/speeches/detail/g20-health-ministers-virtual-meeting-saudi-arabia

Sincere thanks go out to Saudi Arabia for donating US500 million to the WHO Global Response.

https://pitchfork.com/news/bonnie-raitt-remembers-john-prine-in-new-video-watch/

No, actually my reason would be closer to not causing the country to experience financial collapse/recession over people's sniffles.

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=john+prine+angel+from+montgomery+youtube&ru=%2fsearch%3fq%3djohn%2bprine%2bangel%2bfrom%2bmontgomery%2byoutube%26qs%3dSC%26pq%3djohn%2bprime%2bangel%2bfrom%2b%26sk%3dSC1%26sc%3d8-22%26cvid%3d2AF855F5F72241E38F973C7735BF834C%26FORM%3dQBRE%26sp%3d2&view=detail&mid=4775C4289348AF8607E74775C4289348AF8607E7&&FORM=VDRVRV

"Puts me in mind of the recent demise of singer-songwriter John Prine, who after suffering from cancer for many years, died last week "from complications of the Coronavirus" according to his Time Magazine obit."

And your point is???

You have no idea how much longer he could have lived without getting the virus. It could have been years.

Does the fact that the virus simply pushed him over the brink, that he would have died eventually anyway, somehow excuse the fact that it was the virus that finally killed him??? Therefore in order to minimize the impact, he should not be counted as a virus death, to somehow skew the numbers one way or another? That's true only if you want to make the virus out to be less serious than it really is, for what reason?

"Where I live , VERY few people of any age are dying from Corona, and virtually NO young people. There's fewer than a half-dozen in my county, and several of them claim to have never even known they were sick with anything."

Then you are very lucky and fortunate so far. But you cannot and should not assume that that is always going to be the case, or that things will not get worse.

And that, I'm here to confirm, is a sad fact.

I mean, this virus has always been known to be a respiratory pathogen. So, of course, there is human to human transmission! And, when the WHO put out there first guidance to countries on 10 January they said that all of the usual respiratory precautions be taken.

I guess reading and understanding skills are not quite where they need to be ...

Now, it's a lovely sunny spring day here and so far it's been unusually dry for April. Does that mean it's a lovely sunny spring day and a dry April everywhere in the world? Or even in the whole northern hemisphere? Of course not. My friend in Michigan had snow two days ago.

While it is important to be precise and concise- just ask the social media people at WHO! - but I think most of here know what we're talking about most of the time. :)

you weren't the target audience. i was hoping CRS hadn't noticed and might read it now.

covid-19 isn't spreading everywhere with equal speed, because most people don't travel to or from wyoming or south dakota, while MANY people come to and from new york. however, it will eventually spread everywhere because all the evidence available shows that it is very contagious and very deadly to a large subset of the population - NOT just those who are already "teetering on the brink."

the fact that it is NOT deadly to about 80% of the population is actually terrible news, because people with no symptoms are less likely to stay home while contagious, and therefore much more likely to infect others.

any suggestion that the virus is less deadly than advertised is most likely mistaken.

JL

i'm repeating the link i shared in post 39:

Did you think we didn't read it the first time? :)

Seriously, genetic diversity amongst the human hosts may go a long way toward explaining how and who this virus is infecting.

It would also allay some fear about not being able to find an effective vaccine because of genetic changes in the virus.

Where I live , VERY few people of any age are dying from Corona, and virtually NO young people. There's fewer than a half-dozen in my county, and several of them claim to have never even known they were sick with anything.

https://www.livescience.com/genes-for-covid19-coronavirus-severity.html

although my data are admittedly anecdotal, there have been a LOT more deaths in my circles since the virus hit. in my opinion, it is far too big an increase to attribute to chance. while correlation doesn't necessarily equal causation, i consider it highly unlikely that this is all just happening by coincidence.

JL

Oops, hit the wrong button in the middle. Anyway, I calculate that the normal daily deaths in NYC should be about 30 -31, but as I said to Bashi, I'm estimating that if the jump in daily deaths represents a lot of people who were teetering on the brink already, we wont really know the effect of the corona thing until we see the annual totals.

Puts me in mind of the recent demise of singer-songwriter John Prine, who after suffering from cancer for many years, died last week "from complications of the Coronavirus" according to his Time Magazine obit.

i knew there was a reason i liked you. rum is often my spirit of choice as well. scotch or rye on occasion, but i'm pickier about which of those i'll try.

Somebody's lying, my guess is the "Medical Examiner's Office" you cited in 1st para.

Do the math. NYC has 8.5 million inhabitants, representing 3.8% of the total U.S. pop. Unless NYC residents are substantially longer-lived than the rest of the country, that 3.8% should translate int

couldn't just call it the resolute desk in the oval office? anyhow, bush senior used a different desk.

I can get wordy when I drink rum.

Bush 41 used the Resolute desk for a few months but preferred the walnut desk he used as Vice President from the Chesapeake and Ohio Railway Co. I could have just called it the C&O desk, but I didn't because rum. I cannot fathom why anyone wouldn't want to use that historical desk gifted by Queen Victoria.

Remember that time Trump informed Macron that the Resolute desk was "like 1814"?:

https://tinyurl.com/yd2a9kx7

Trump is such an inveterate moron/con. #pathetic

People seem to have lost sight of the fact that on average, about 8000 people die every single day in the U.S., usually totaling about 2.8 million annually. I'm betting that when the totals for the current yr are calculated, there will not be any serious difference from recent previous yrs, meaning most if not all of the deaths attributed to the infamous new virus will turn out to be people who would have died anyway, corona or no carona.

If you are betting, then you are losing! In NYC, one of the medical examiner’s offices said that over the last five years, they averaged around 25 deaths per day where the person died at home in the months of Feb/March. This year that number increased to over 200 - 250 deaths at home per day. Most of these were never tested for the coronavirus, so they aren’t being counted as COVID-19 related. Of course ignoring the fact that we are currently battling a pandemic doesn't help explain why the numbers jumped from 25 death/day to 250 deaths/day.

And NYC isn’t alone in experiencing a massive increase in unexplained daily deaths — cities worldwide have reported similar occurrences. This is why it is ridiculous to think we are over-estimating the number of deaths this virus is causing...especially in this country where testing is still not readily available to the masses.

Hey, Kick! How are you doing these days. I mean, really, how is it going?

Other than my Trump worshiping otherwise awesome uncle passing away on April 15... great as ever.

Hope y'all are well in Canada.

Everyone keep yourselves well, dang it.

couldn't just call it the resolute desk in the oval office? anyhow, bush senior used a different desk.

JL

Sir Paul
Sir Elton
Sir Michael aka Mick

Rolling Stones … amazing!

Are you watching the show!?

Right now I'm drinking rum and Coke and twirling a little yellow umbrella I got from the bartender at my local pub, the Crown & Tanker. Good stuff.

That's very funny.

No, it isn't funny. Biden has already been in charge of enough at the top to prove what type of administration he'll have, and I would wager without hesitation he'll run it no differently than we've already witnessed. For an elected member of the United States government, he's more like a career member than the majority of them. Biden is already a known "known"... a multitasker.

Perhaps that will be the case when they get a damn sight more than a scintilla of leadership from the top, eh?

Not everything that the prior administration put in place has been dismantled. You keep Canadasplaining about the government of the United States as if it's one person when it has never been and will never be... no matter who occupies the space behind the desk carved from a ship sitting in the room with no corners.

If COVID-19 doesn't spur us toward positive change through science, solutions and solidarity, then what hope is there for us?

I think it can be much better in many ways if we want it bad enough.

That's very funny.

My point was just to say that rather than expecting the Biden administration to focus on prosecutions of its predecessor, I'd like to see a thorough examination and after action report on how the Trump administration responded to the coronavirus, in granular detail.

My point was that we -- the career employees of the United States of America -- have an amazing ability to focus on a myriad of things and to multitask... so I'll take all of the above and an entire list of other things with a cherry on top.

Besides, wouldn't it be even more difficult that it already is for Biden to begin the long effort that uniting the country will require?

Not even a scintilla.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/18/us/politics/bernie-sanders-voters-biden.html?action=click&module=Top%20Stories&pgtype=Homepage

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0hgkFjisCqM

Those will be the numbers that will ultimately verify (or disprove) my point, but unfortunately, there is a 2 - 3 yr lag in the compilation and publication of those stats. The most recent stats I could find in that area are for 2018, and by the time 2020 numbers become available I'll likely be included on those stats!

My point was just to say that rather than expecting the Biden administration to focus on prosecutions of its predecessor, I'd like to see a thorough examination and after action report on how the Trump administration responded to the coronavirus, in granular detail.

Besides, wouldn't it be even more difficult that it already is for Biden to begin the long effort that uniting the country will require?

That's an interesting postulate, update us when you come up with something approaching a proof. You know, real numbers and logical argument.

Things that should be taken in account:

The increased death rate for not doing social distancing, including the vast increase from overwhelming the medical system.

Reduced other infectious diseases.
Reduced gun deaths.
reduced vehicle related deaths,
increased suicide rates.
Reduced on the job deaths.
Ect...

I suspect if looked at through a non-partisan bias, equal numbers would not tell the story you want them to tell...

This novel coronavirus is really something. What we don't yet understand about it leave us with some very interesting questions.

I just hope we finally learn the lessons we need to learn before the next one shows up. Which could be much worse for us.

Is it reasonable to throw millions of folks out of work, create massive poverty, etc. if it is really not saving any lives???

The short answer: Your premise is flawed because it's really saving lives.

That's precisely why the right-wing and their ilk have gone right back to their downplaying the severity of the virus in the same way they did the entire months of January and February and right up until Friday the 13th of March.

https://www.livescience.com/genes-for-covid19-coronavirus-severity.html

You're missing the point. The question is NOT whether my stony heart is lacking in sympathy/empathy or whatever, the question is, Is it reasonable to throw millions of folks out of work, create massive poverty, etc. if it is really not saving any lives???

It's just that it's ridiculous on its face to claim it's "really not saving any lives" when the various models estimated that upwards of 2 million Americans would have lost their lives if mitigating steps weren't taken... so the mitigating steps were taken to avoid the catastrophic loss of life and to stave off the effects of the sheer numbers of ill people that would have overwhelmed the critical care capacity of US hospitals to the point of breaking... setting up a scenario where even more Americans die from curable diseases because our hospitals are overwhelmed if not for the mitigating steps we did take.

Fast forward to now where the right-wing talking heads and so-called conservatives types are now looking at the fatality numbers that were a direct result of the mitigating steps taken in order to avoid overwhelming numbers and the crushing effect to America's hospitals and proclaiming: "See there, big whoop."

It doesn't work that way, righties. The road taken was to affirmatively act to mitigate the loss of life and hospital overload, and the fatality numbers therefore achieved shouldn't be construed as your cue to go right back to downplaying the severity of the virus.

There'd be no need to mitigate the crush of damages to life and our healthcare system if the virus wasn't severe. This ain't rocket science.

yes, that's what he's saying. it's also the current narrative coming out of fox news and the like. what they're saying is, "almost everyone dying of covid-19 probably would have died this year anyway."

that is highly unlikely to be true, but it makes them feel better about encouraging folks to put their lives in danger so the folks at the top can get back to reaping huge profits.

kaffee: grave danger?
jessep: is there another kind?
~a few good men

I'm trying to get your point but, I just don't understand your thinking on this.

You say that the mitigation measures that we have had to put in place and endure are unnecessary because lives are not being saved??

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=rush+closer+to+the+heart&view=detail&mid=3485B1C3047308E6B3FF3485B1C3047308E6B3FF&FORM=VIRE0&ru=%2fsearch%3fq%3drush%2bcloser%2bto%2bthe%2bheart%26form%3dEDGEAR%26qs%3dSC%26cvid%3db4f08cb52e5142fb9bdb582cb35c639d%26cc%3dUS%26setlang%3den-US%26elv%3dAQj93OAhDTi*HzTv1paQdnh3fBUwHCJaEwSn1i0ZEygymVmjQBPJ98mqzPYY9Vx%25212dYEQ5rrv*LOldfTgBAJ8MvRck58ZRLCuzxLmY8pg92E%26plvar%3d0

So, get used to it.