Russ: And for the record, when Trump didn’t have an -R behind his name, he was all for illegal immigrants working at his properties.

Mike: Yea.. Most successful businessmen are.. What's yer point?? ~ Mike

Point to Russ who just got Mike to admit that Trump (among others) is a criminal perp.

The criminal "businessmen" are counting on that special kind of pure blind rube stupidity that would vilify a group of people as criminals while totally absolving the criminal cons who hire them. It's like it never occurred to Bubba Trump living in his trailer in Shithole that if those criminals he refers to as "businessmen" wouldn't hire illegal workers, they'd have a hell of a lot fewer reasons to enter the country illegally.

As we've discussed many times, connecting the very big dots isn't exactly their strong suit, and you can bet your bottom dollar that the GOP "businessmen" are counting on that bone-deep ignorance and inability at reasoning regarding cause and effect while they're bending them over.

It's all too easy to keep the penniless rubes angry and foaming at the mouth about the "others" versus the criminal cons like Trump himself who's been hiring them for decades and still doing so... meanwhile, pay no attention to Fat Bastard Criminal "Businessman" while he and his ilk pull your levers and laugh all the way to the bank... not laughing with you... laughing at you.

Love ya!

Me? ;)

Hey, EM, I don't expect you to click the link, but I did want to give a heads up to anyone interested that the GOP are planning to sabotage the South Carolina primary election against Biden. They've cancelled the GOP SC primary so no one can challenge Trump and are now planning to "vote for Trump" by voting for Bernie Sanders... their preferred candidate.

https://www.postandcourier.com/politics/upstate-gop-leaders-plotting-to-meddle-in-sc-democratic-primary/article_f1e7abd2-4788-11ea-aa9f-33a1d262994c.html

The fix is in.

So to recap: The GOP in South Carolina cancelled their primary and are planning to sabotage Biden.

-CW

Sanctuary City policies do NOT force cities to do anything — they actually do the opposite. It keeps the police from holding individuals on federal charges that do not rise to the level of a felony because they do not have the authority to do so! There are no policies that “force” cities to release criminals that aren’t supposed to be released.

That is Trump lying to the public...once again! Fear mongering of how horrible illegal immigrants are...except for the ones he hires, apparently.

Love ya!

Iowa 2012... a total GOP eff up from the word "go." See [77] above.

After that GOP shit show where Romney was declared the winner and then Santorum was the actual winner except he received zero -- count them -- zero delegates, Romney came in second and received 6 delegates, and Ron Paul in third received a whopping 22 delegates -- after all that playing out over months, then several of Ron Paul's aides were criminally indicted for a host of corruption charges connected to the 2012 GOP Iowa caucus and bribery for an endorsement -- campaign finance violations.

https://www.desmoinesregister.com/story/news/crime-and-courts/2016/05/05/former-ron-paul-aides-guilty-payment-scandal-kent-sorenson-michele-bachmann-jesse-benton-dimitri-kesari-john-tate/83968234/

#SSDD

Story??? More like a fairy tale..

Anyone with more than 2 brain cells to rub together KNOWS that Bernie was the big winner..

The reason it took so long to get the "results" is because they needed to be tweaked and massaged to make sure the fact that Bernie was the winner by a mile didn't get out..

It'll be interesting to watch the polling out of SC over the next week or so.

Yep. But keep in mind that Iowa is one state, and South Carolina isn't a caucus.

If Biden is toast, where will his voting base migrate to?

Bernie was supposed to win it easily, right? So what happened to Bernie? Why is Bernie not toast when he's been running for 5 years and hasn't made a whole lot of inroads with minorities? Super Tuesday will arrive. No one expected Biden to win in a lily white state... but Bernie? He was expected to win. 'Splain that while you're Biden bashing, please. :)

Big story: Pete beats expectations by a mile, and Biden falls far short of expectations.

That's what I had heard last night from about a dozen people there on the ground in Iowa... that Buttigieg had over performed his poll numbers. This was about the only universal theme I was hearing from friends in Iowa... most of them now in New Hampshire... one on their way back to Texas... that and the caucus goers being overwhelmingly female.

Biden almost has to win South Carolina now, but I think he can do that since Buttigieg and Sanders aren't exactly bowling them over here in the South.

More later...

Good. Buttigieg, Sanders, and Warren definitely benefit from the lily white states getting to vote first, and New Hampshire is even whiter than Iowa. However, the South -- so far -- doesn't show signs of jumping on their bandwagons... meaning: Writing off Joe Biden after the lily white states in the North and before South Carolina and Super Tuesday is silly. :)

All the upset Bernie supporters who were beside themselves livid that Bernie wasn't announced as the winner last night can now quit your whining. As of now -- since they only released partial numbers -- Bernie might not have won after all, and Buttigieg has apparently overperformed his polling numbers... as I was told almost universally by my friends in Iowa (who've moved on to New Hampshire now).

Buttigieg ran basically the same race Obama did. He ran as a centrist who could reach people on both sides of the aisle and invited Republicans to caucus for him while knocking on doors. People forget, but that's exactly what Obama did, and Buttigieg organized for Obama in Iowa in 2008 and knocked on a lot of doors for him... and the rest is history. :)

-CW

Pete up in delegates, Bernie up in votes. 62% in.

Big story: Pete beats expectations by a mile, and Biden falls far short of expectations.

More later...

-CW

I heard it was a group of Elizabeth Warren caucus goers who missed it by only two and were allowed to pick up two and become viable, but by the caucus rules, when Warren's group wasn't viable, they were supposed to choose another candidate. So apparently on live television this happened -- with recorded proof via cable new network -- and no one knows how many caucus sites at which this happened. It is pathetic if that actually happened on live television, but it's still SSDD in Iowa... pretty much par for the course on both sides of the aisle... because caucuses suck for everybody.

And releasing part of the results is equally stupid. They should release all the results or nothing. Release the delegate counts. Who won which delegates? You can get huge numbers of voters in a caucus that amounts to almost no delegates. Still, this election isn't going to be won in one lily white state. Talk to me on Super Tuesday. :)

By all means.. Find me such an Iowa frak-up to match the current Democrat one..

what's with all this "if" stuff?

If the shoe was on the other foot and the GOP had such an unmitigated disaster and displayed such gross incompetence at the Iowa Caucus, ya'all would be attacking them to the high heavens..

The hypocrisy that permeates Weigantia knows no depths... :eyeroll:

so why dwell on it for being even moreso than expected?

Because the hatred and fake outrage toward Beyonce and Jay-Z staying seated during the National Anthem blew up in their hypocritical faces when Donald's Russian friend posted him failing to meet his own National Anthem purity test.

Also, the manufactured outrage at the Iowa caucuses (which is nothing new) takes the focus off President Impeached In Perpetuity who is being pronounced guilty by multiple GOP Senators.

But it takes Democrats to elevate such suckiness to extreme levels of incompetence and disaster...

and whether or not he'll stay on script. iowa was already looking chaotic even before the vote reporting fiasco, so why dwell on it for being even moreso than expected?

There is "chaotic" and then there is "unmitigated disaster"..

As far as what President Trump will say about impeachment??

Read back thru all my gloating of the last couple days.. :D That should give you an idea. :D hehe

The victory lap is going to be EPIC. And Pelosi will have a front row seat!! :D hehehe

Eight years ago, Mitt Romney was declared the apparent, but narrow, winner of the Republican caucuses over Rick Santorum. But the absence of full results on caucus night left the outcome unresolved. Weeks later, Santorum was declared the official winner, but long after it made any difference for his candidacy.

Yes, sir. Rick Santorum actually was the victor over Mitt Romney by a margin of only 34 votes, but Ron Paul carried a huge chunk of the rural portion of Iowa and came in a very strong third place. The caucus certified the results, but the GOP declared a "split decision" because the information from 8 precincts was still missing and unreported.

As for GOP delegate count coming out of Iowa in 2012, Santorum and Romney got about the same number... just kidding. Iowa is a stupid caucus (all caucuses are stupid, IMO) wherein the delegates are awarded much like an electoral college type system where a person can receive a large portion of the votes yet a smaller portion of delegates depending on which part of the state the votes were earned. In short, rural areas of the state with way less people have equal numbers of delegates as do thousands.

So, about those delegates, Rick Santorum having won the majority of votes won zero delegates... just kidding... *shakes head*... not kidding! Rick Santorum "won" Iowa and zero delegates. Romney got the vast majority... just kidding:

Delegates
Santorum ...... 0
Romney ......... 6
Ron Paul ...... 22

Popular vote
Santorum ...... 29,839
Romney ......... 29,805
Ron Paul ........ 26,036

Since the guy who won the popular vote got zero delegates... which GOP candidate actually won Iowa in 2012?

Answer: Who cares? Caucuses suck. Caucuses have always sucked.

Or just more equivocating and excuses???

Joe Biden flopped in Iowa. And so did the Democratic party's reputation

The apparent malfunctioning of a new app, meant to transmit vote totals, threw the Iowa caucus in disarray. And this benefited some more than others
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/feb/04/joe-biden-flopped-badly-iowa

As usual, Democrats EPIC'LY failed..

Only a moron or an America-hating dirtbag would have a problem with it..

https://www.miamiherald.com/news/politics-government/article239913588.html

Being that Trump has created a hierarchy of sycophants wherein loyalty is determined by boot licking/ass kissing that must follows his every idiotic move, it'll sure be interesting to watch the spinners, holsters, rubes, and dipshits defend this.

You have to stand proudly for the National Anthem or you shouldn't be playing; you shouldn't be there. Maybe you shouldn't be in the country. ~ Donald Trump

And that is why Trump is the true winner. Jeb Bush was right to call him the chaos candidate early on in the 2016 primary season. Bush meant that Trump sowed chaos. He did, and he does. But it was also true in another sense. Trump thrives on chaos, even that which he doesn't create. The more American democracy degrades, becomes a circus, and gets permeated by a miasma of bad faith and bad blood, the more politicians like Trump will flourish and succeed in their efforts to act as ringmasters of a carnival freak show at the core of our public life.
https://theweek.com/articles/893559/trump-just-won-iowa-democratic-caucuses

Even Left Wing rags that hate President Trump acknowledge that he is the undisputed winner in Iowa today.. :D

Russia doesn't have to bother interfering with our elections..

The Democrats are perfectly capable of fraking things up all on their own...

:smirk: :D

They realize that Bernie was going to have a really really good day..

So they engineered this caucus debacle to blunt the impact on Bernie's huge win...

A divided Democratic Party, united only in a quest to defeat President Trump this year, is stretched to breaking over fault lines of young and old, liberal and moderate, persuaders and mobilizers, stabilizers and revolutionaries. About the last thing they need now is another Hillary Clinton revival tour -- but here it comes.
https://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2020/01/31/ready_dems_hillary_wants_a_starring_role_142275.html

Hillary Clinton..

The gift to the GOP that keeps on giving..

Hillary will never be missed...

How can we miss someone who will never go away??

, he couldn’t rip children out of the arms of their asylum seeking parents, no matter how much he might have liked to do so.

President Trump was simply following the same policy that yer Messiah, Odumbo was..

Funny how you didn't complain about children being ripped out of the arms of their alleged "parents" then, eh??

How come??

Obviously the FACTS prove that you really don't care about the children being ripped out of the arms of their alleged "parents"..

Apparently, you prefer to keep children with the rapists and the child sex traffickers..

Which, to be perfectly honest, is a really sick and twisted position to take. Promise me you'll never be left alone with children, eh? :smirk:

The Iowa caucus results appear to be indefinitely delayed, leaving the Democratic candidates in a lurch.
https://www.politico.com/news/2020/02/03/iowa-caucus-2020-election-110600

This is not just a run o' the mill caucus issue...

This is a full blown snafu... An unmitigated disaster..

Leave it to Democrats to destroy an American institution..

"I always knew that thing was a bad idea. Leave it to the Catholics to destroy existence."
-Serendipity, DOGMA

:D

This isn't a party thing. It's a caucus thing. Please remember:

I don't think the GOP was stoopid enough to depend solely on an app for their caucus..

It's reminiscent of the disastrous TrainWreckCare website rollout..

You’ve never adequately proven that Democrats loved Donald Trump ever.

Actually, I have.. Several times..

Do you deny it?? Because, if you deny it and are willing to concede when I prove it again, I'll be happy to do so..

And for the record, when Trump didn’t have an -R behind his name, he was all for illegal immigrants working at his properties.

Yea.. Most successful businessmen are.. What's yer point??

There are lots more reasons to dislike the traitor in the White House, but it’s easier for you to just ignore the facts and truth concerning him.

And that's your problem.. You don't WANT to listen to the FACTS about him and the only "truth" you have with President Trump is your "truth"..

I don’t think it is that shocking if Buttigieg did well in Iowa — he has focused his campaign there early on — spending a good bit of time going door to door trying to meet as many folks as he could.

Buttigieg learned a lot from the "school of hard knocks" campaigning for Obama in 2008.

I think it shows that in person meetings has a better response than tv and radio ads.

Smart guy. :)

Buttigieg gave one of the best victory speeches I've heard in a long time

He seriously did or you're kidding?

...all of the others paled in comparison tonight. Yesterday.

They seriously all gave victory speeches!? Buttigieg is a good speechifier. ;)

And you STILL have not adequately explained why Democrats loved Donald Trump when he had a -D after his name..

You’ve never adequately proven that Democrats loved Donald Trump ever. The real question is why you love him more since he is arguing that he is a dictator with no checks and balances that can hold him accountable for any improper or illegal actions?

And for the record, when Trump didn’t have an -R behind his name, he was all for illegal immigrants working at his properties. Before he became a Republican, he couldn’t rip children out of the arms of their asylum seeking parents, no matter how much he might have liked to do so. Prior to that -R behind his name, Trump wasn’t able increase the deficit to over $1 trillion dollars in good economic times.

There are lots more reasons to dislike the traitor in the White House, but it’s easier for you to just ignore the facts and truth concerning him.

Everyone gave a victory speech.

What!? That's hilarious. Yang too? Steyer too?

Klobuchar is getting kudos for leaping out as the first to do so.

Seriously!?

After all, when there are no results, why not give a victory speech?

That's one way to spin it; no results equals good results. It's comical to watch them fight like Hell over 41 delegates every 4 years. With all those candidates, it seems like anyone who comes out of Iowa with around 8 or more delegates is in decent shape.

I don’t think it is that shocking if Buttigieg did well in Iowa — he has focused his campaign there early on — spending a good bit of time going door to door trying to meet as many folks as he could. I think it shows that in person meetings has a better response than tv and radio ads.

Buttigieg gave one of the best victory speeches I've heard in a long time ...all of the others paled in comparison tonight. Yesterday.

CW-

Agreed. But wouldn't adopting a "ranked choice" ballot combine the best attributes of both the caucases and primary balloting?

The caucases allow for local individualized face to face political participation, perhaps reminiscent of Democracy back in old Athens,
including the option (for some) of considering evidence and changing one's mind. Primary balloting yields easier to interpret results and with the quickness that addresses our national obsession with getting instant results. Everybody wins and our politic system will have a refined awareness of America's politica will and aspirations.

Everyone gave a victory speech. Klobuchar is getting kudos for leaping out as the first to do so.

After all, when there are no results, why not give a victory speech?

Heh.

-CW

This isn't a party thing. It's a caucus thing. Please remember:

Eight years ago, Mitt Romney was declared the apparent, but narrow, winner of the Republican caucuses over Rick Santorum. But the absence of full results on caucus night left the outcome unresolved. Weeks later, Santorum was declared the official winner, but long after it made any difference for his candidacy.

In other words, not a snafu, but a fubar. From either side of the aisle...

Sigh. The problem, of course, is that Iowa cannot change to a primary, because the minute it does, NH will try to leapfrog in front of it in the calendar. NH law states that their primary doesn't happen on a set date but rather "two weeks before any other primary in the country." That sets up a battle royale with Iowa should they decide to change...

-CW

Did Buttigieg give a victory speech?

Maybe this will be the ultimate death of the whole "caucus" idea, which in my opinion would be a good thing.

Totally agree... just look at Washington State in 2016. Two totally different results when they held caucuses and primaries.

So maybe what we're hearing now is the death knell of the whole caucus concept?

About time. :)

You won't regret it.. It's hilarious.. :D

Let me know how the 'cluster----' works out.. :D

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U9t-slLl30E

:D

Sigh.

Welcome to the Dark Side.. :D

Careful ...

Maybe this will be the ultimate death of the whole "caucus" idea, which in my opinion would be a good thing.

Dems have already switched almost all of the caucus states to primaries, I think only about 3 or 4 remain. So maybe what we're hearing now is the death knell of the whole caucus concept?

Primaries are a lot easier to count, period.

-CW

Sigh.

-CW

The real problem with Iowa is that the state itself is lopsided.

It's certainly not indicative of the Democratic electorate at large since it's around 90% Caucausian (if that's what you mean). :)

How are Democrats gonna govern 329 million Americans when they can't even handle a few thousand voters in Iowa???

ANYONE could have made that call..

Except Democrats, of course..

One thing is perfectly clear from the Great Democrat Iowa Debacle of 2020...

Democrats are still against Sanders and will damage him at ALL costs...

Iowa's Democratic Party hung up on a precinct secretary while he was live on CNN
11:57 p.m.
If one feverish scramble of a segment on CNN could describe Monday night's Iowa caucuses, this is it.

Sebastian complained to Blitzer about how the app "just doesn't work" as he waited on hold to speak to an Iowa Democratic party official on Monday. And when Sebastian finally got through, the Iowa Democrat's luck got even worse.
https://theweek.com/speedreads/893500/iowas-democratic-party-hung-precinct-secretary-live-cnn

"Let's vote with an APP!!! What could POSSIBLY go wrong!!???"
-Democrat Party

The ONLY winner in Iowa tonight is going to be President Trump...

At least, that is what my "peeps" are telling me on the ground... :D

In the case of a tie during Monday night's caucuses, the state is resorting to an old-fashioned coin flip to decide which candidates win delegates. A couple have already occurred.
https://theweek.com/speedreads/893489/iowa-officially-first-caucusdeciding-coin-flips-year

Democrats.. :eyeroll:

(1) Buttigieg outperforming his polling numbers.

And yet, the FACTS don't support your "peeps on the ground in Iowa"...

Funny how that is ALWAYS the case, eh? :D

Sanders wins IOWA! :D

I've been hearing anecdotal stuff as well, some of it contradictory.

Me too, CW... totally contradictory information from about a dozen people. I heard only two things that were consistent, and it was:

(1) Buttigieg outperforming his polling numbers.
(2) The caucus goers being lopsided with females.

It's Democrat's version of "quality control"..

IE Controlling the "votes" so the desired outcome is achieved..

It is indeed..

It comes from the Democrat penchant to try and please everyone and ending up pleasing no one and pissing off everyone..

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/

:smirk: :D

Who could have POSSIBLY predicted that Biden would fall by the wayside.. :D

oh.. wait.. :D

But, then, that's your point, isn't it. Heh.

I've been hearing anecdotal stuff as well, some of it contradictory.

This is why we need numbers!

Grrr...

They're now reporting "inconsistencies" which is not reassuring, and that officials from the caucuses are waiting for "an hour" on the phone to report their numbers.

WTF?

-CW

Democrats could screw up an iron football... :eyeroll:

Multiple peeps on the ground in Iowa are telling me that Buttigieg is doing much better than the polls indicated. I'm hearing it was a lopsided electorate of about 60% women and 40% men. Not sure if any of that is true, but I heard that from multiple contacts.

BBBBBWWWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Yea.. Just like your "contacts" told you Hillary was going to win FL, PA and the presidency.. :D

But it's OK.. I am sure hearing "voices" in your head seems perfectly normal to you.. :smirk: :D

They're double-checking everything.
This is new because we have to report 3 different numbers.
This is also new with the remote caucuses as well.
We have a new app to report numbers, meaning some confusion.

But who knows what's really going on, especially after that last minute poll was yanked, too...

-CW

No kidding! We have the Left Coast advantage of being two hours behind Iowa, but we need the bleeping numbers.

Counting votes isn't really a difficult proposition.

What!? Has there been some sort of election interference going on here or is there something about caucuses?

Unbelievable.

Numbers! I want numbers!

Sigh...

-CW

There may well be four tickets out of Iowa this year, but I think five is doubtful, personally.

Waiting to see results... nothing in yet...

-CW

It's going to be a good news viewing night out here in country-Cali - woot!