I am on the record (as I am wont to do) as saying it's 60-40 that the House will pass the Articles Of Impeachment..

Wrong. Trump is going to be impeached because he's on video admitting that he wanted Ukraine to investigate the Bidens and for encouraging China to investigate them too. He's therefore confessed to his crimes. This isn't rocket science. Trump will be impeached.

I think the right wingnut talking heads do a great disservice to their viewers/listeners by continuing to claim that Trump's impeachment is falling apart. It isn't. Trump is going to be impeached... 100%.

Even though it's likely the WORST possible thing the Dems could do, there is a 60% chance they will actually do it...

Utter nonsense. Trump will definitely be impeached.

Anyone wanna go on the record with their bet??

Vote is Weds.....

ON THE RECORD: Trump will be impeached.

As I've said before, although I was accused by other posters of promising Trump would be impeached, I did not think he would be because I did not think Nancy Pelosi wanted to do it; then Trump left her no choice.

Trump will be impeached. Anyone telling you otherwise is hoping for a different outcome when Trump is definitely going to be impeached. It's not too late to stop falling for the GOP bullshit. Trump will be impeached. :)

This charge is especially laughable because Democrats are claiming that President Trump's exercise of Executive Privilege is "Obstruction Of Congress"...

It's laughable that you cannot seem to grasp the concept that there is no such thing as a blanket "executive privilege" nor executive privilege that applies to former employees like Bolton and McGhan wherein a President refuses to produce any and all documents or allow any and all subordinates or former subordinates to testify or produce documents. The Obama administration complied with subpoenas by submitting thousands of pages of documents, and the right-wing bullshitters are lying to their minions by claiming Obama produced none.

https://www.factcheck.org/2019/03/trump-wrong-about-obama-documents/

To illustrate how ridiculous it is, allow me to turn it around.

Republicans impeach Obama because Obama exercised Executive Privilege over Fast & Furious docs..

It's false equivalency and a ridiculous comparison and standard GOP Party buffoonery since Obama produced thousands of pages of documents and allowed his administration to testify. He only took issue to certain documents and still produced thousands of pages.

Anyone comparing Trump's obstruction of Congress with Obama wherein Trump refuses to comply in any way and has also ordered his subordinates and former employees to comply with Congress is comparing apples and oranges and lying in the process... hoping the uninformed minions will be too stupid to know the facts.

Pretty frakin' ridiculous, eh?? :D

That you spew the GOP Party bullshit on cue like a useful idiot? It's always ridiculous how you toe the Party line and make the false comparisons and buy into the Trump lies, but here we are. :)

But what I can tell you for an ABSOLUTE FACT that there is no such crime as ABUSE OF POWER or OBSTRUCTION OF CONGRESS in ANY State or Federal Criminal code..

Wrong! and Wrong!

First off: One does not have to commit a crime in order to be impeached so your whining is nothing but GOP Party buffoonery... whining that crimes haven't been committed when crimes aren't necessary and making ignorant semantical arguments.

Contempt of Congress is a federal crime. The President of the United States has ordered multiple employees on multiple occasions to violate federal statute at 2 U.S.C. Section 192:

Every person who having been summoned as a witness by the authority of either House of Congress to give testimony or to produce papers upon any matter under inquiry before either House, or any joint committee established by a joint or concurrent resolution of the two Houses of Congress, or any committee of either House of Congress, willfully makes default, or who, having appeared, refuses to answer any question pertinent to the question under inquiry, shall be deemed guilty of a misdemeanor, punishable by a fine of not more than [$100,000] nor less than $100 and imprisonment in a common jail for not less than one month nor more than twelve months. ~ 2 U.S.C. Section 192.

POTUS has directed his subordinates on multiple occasions to commit criminal acts as defined in federal law; how does such behavior not constitute multiple high crimes and/or misdemeanors? Call it Obstruction of Congress or Contempt of Congress or whatever you will, POTUS has ordered it. Comparing Trump's across-the-board refusal to comply with any subpoena of Congress to Obama and Fast and Furious is just more partisan lying spewed back by the ignorant minions on cue. Comparing Trump's refusal to comply with document production/subpoenas and Trump's ordering the same of others... comparing that to the Obama administration's compliance that produced thousands of pages of documents is pure Party buffoonery and -- need I say it? -- outright lying.

Anyone claiming there is no such crime as abuse of power in any State or Federal Criminal code is again arguing semantics... akin to a claim that there is no crime for "killing someone" when it's referred to as "murder," "manslaughter," etc.... mere semantics... nothing more.

It's called "malfeasance in office" and/or "official misconduct" and various assorted other names in the statutes of numerous and multiple states and also in federal law. Anyone telling you otherwise is either a partisan liar or useful idiot spewing back misinformation.

INNOCENT UNTIL PROVEN GUILTY IN A COURT OF LAW..

When President Trump is acquitted in the Senate, it will be a factual statement that President Trump is **INNOCENT** of all charges...

Wrong, wrong, wrong. "Acquitted" and "innocent of all charges" are two wholly different things. One can commit multiple crimes and be found "not guilty" at trial in the same manner one can be found "guilty" of crime(s) one did not commit. "Not guilty" and "innocent" are two different things.

I've said it before, and it bears repeating: You really should stop explaining legal terms because you suck at it and have no idea what you're talking about.

This charge is especially laughable because Democrats are claiming that President Trump's exercise of Executive Privilege is "Obstruction Of Congress"...

To illustrate how ridiculous it is, allow me to turn it around.

Republicans impeach Obama because Obama exercised Executive Privilege over Fast & Furious docs..

Pretty frakin' ridiculous, eh?? :D

Obama's convo with Putin thru Menedev comes to mind.

That was purely for Obama's benefit... Obama stated so himself "I need space to win my election"

So, I submit to you that attaching personal desires to foreign aid is not exclusive to Trump..

Not only that, but it seems like most people fail to recognize that Trump, our President, was asking a foreign government to go after an American citizen who has committed no crime! That is just WRONG!

No it's not wrong, not illegal.. As President, Trump has the authority to ask ANYONE to investigate ANY American...

Trump didn’t have Barr investigate Biden for corruption, but he wants a foreign government to do that??!!

Because the alleged corruption didn't occur where Barr had jurisdiction. It occurred where President Zelensky had jurisdiction so, logically, President Trump asked President Zelensky to look into it..

Nothing untoward whatsoever..

Also, Ambassador Sondland DID testify that he, personally, told the Ukrainians that the aid they were seeking was not coming until Trump heard them say that they announced Biden was being investigated for corruption and they looked into the CrowdStrike fantasy bullshit days before the phone call took place!

Sondland testified that THAT was *HIS* opinion.. NONE of it was verifiable by ANYTHING President Trump specifically said. Sondland testified to that as well..

Sondland was relaying his opinion, not any directive from President Trump. Sondland also testified that President Trump specifically STATED that he (Trump) did not want any quid pro quo..

Regardless of all these facts, the simple fact is NONE of what you have posted in included in the Articles Of Impeachment..

There are only 2 charges.

1. Abuse of Power

2. Obstruction of Congress

NEITHER of those charges are on ANY state or federal law books..

It's "collusion" all over again..

This impeachment, like "collusion" before it, is the BJ Hunnicutt of partisanship..

You are correct with your comment that ALL Presidents put stipulations on foreign aid being given, but those stipulations are all done on behalf of national security. Trump’s call was very different because the stipulations he placed on the foreign aid only benefitted Trump, personally, and did nothing to help our national security!

Not only that, but it seems like most people fail to recognize that Trump, our President, was asking a foreign government to go after an American citizen who has committed no crime! That is just WRONG! If this is acceptable, what prevents Trump from asking foreign governments from going after other U.S. citizens that he has a problem with. Maybe someone who voted for Democrats, or someone who tweeted something he doesn’t like... that’ll make you think twice about vacationing abroad!

Trump didn’t have Barr investigate Biden for corruption, but he wants a foreign government to do that??!! Why did Trump wait until it was clear Biden was going to run in 2020 before he wanted Ukraine to look into him? It isn’t like the story of Biden telling the Ukraine to dump their corrupt prosecutor if they wanted aid money was not public knowledge back in 2016.

Also, Ambassador Sondland DID testify that he, personally, told the Ukrainians that the aid they were seeking was not coming until Trump heard them say that they announced Biden was being investigated for corruption and they looked into the CrowdStrike fantasy bullshit days before the phone call took place!

And it makes no sense for Trump to order his staff to ignore Congressional subpoenas to prevent them from testifying about something that was perfectly legitimate and that possibly could have prevented him from being impeached! He doesn’t want to have that asterisk by his name in the history books because it will mean that he will forever be known as the president who was only elected thanks to foreign help.

Oh gods, yes!! I think I have sneezed only 2 since T-giving and it was brutal...

That said, I’d take breaking my sternum and tailbone together over having kidney stones again!

My daughter suffers from kidney stones all the time.. Seeing the pain she suffers is just rips me apart.. So far, I have been lucky. Never had one.. knock on wood..

So Michale, If you have seasonal allergies, you definitely need to ask your doctor about taking antihistamines with your pain meds, as there are some that you don’t want to take together! I hope you have a sneeze-free recovery!

Also fortunately, I don't suffer from allergies.. But thanx for the sneeze free wishes... I am sure in time I'll be able to sneeze without feeling like I am passing a lung thru my nose... :D

For once, I know that what you are saying is definitely the truth. Years ago, I got a hairline fracture on my sternum (xiphoid process) playing rugby. It hurt to move; it hurt to breathe...and, yes, coughing was a nightmare! But there was one thing far worse that coughing... SNEEZING!!!

The first time I sneezed after the injury my roommate found me facedown halfway up the staircase that led to my room. I can control how hard I cough, usually, but sneezing.... even when I hold them in they are powerful! I hope you do not suffer from allergies like I do!

In my almost 50 years, I have broken, torn, and dislocated just about every body part you can injure. When it comes to which injury hurt the most, for me, the worst pain came from the smallest two bones getting fractured...the xiphoid process in my chest and my coccyx (tailbone) in my rump! A broken tailbone is painful when you are perfectly still and only hurts more when you move. There was no position I could get my body in that didn’t have me in tears that first week after I cracked it.

That said, I’d take breaking my sternum and tailbone together over having kidney stones again!

So Michale, If you have seasonal allergies, you definitely need to ask your doctor about taking antihistamines with your pain meds, as there are some that you don’t want to take together! I hope you have a sneeze-free recovery!

Previous GOP President's would cower and wilt at the onslaught...

President Trump gives as good as he gets, oft times gives BETTER then he gets..

Democrats and their media lapdogs simply don't know how to handle prey that fights back so ferociously..

Funny story from the Open Heart Intensive Care unit in St Augustine, FL.....

Along about the 2nd or 3rd day after they cracked open my chest, the nurses gave me a heart shaped pillow with a black antenna sticking out of it. They said I should use that if I had the urge to cough (for the record, coughing after open heart surgery is EXTREMELY painful)..

So I figured it was some kind of electronic device that monitored what my heart was doing when I coughed..

The next day, I had to cough so I grabbed the pillow and squeezed it tight. Coughed once or twice. Hurt like hell. Thought to myself, "Damn thing better have recorded that properly" thinking the nurses would up the pain medication to compensate.. As I was pulling the pillow away from my chest, the antenna snagged on something and was pulled it out of the pillow..

Hit the call button and confessed to the nurse I broke the pillow sensor by pulling the antenna out..

She giggled and explained that it's just a pillow to help with coughing and the "antenna" was nothing but a black thin-line marker so friends and family can sign the pillow..

We all had a good laugh about that for the next couple days.. :D

True story...

Trump Impeachment and Removal From Office: Support/Oppose
https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/other/public_approval_of_the_impeachment_and_removal_of_president_trump-6957.html

Support for this faux impeachment coup is losing...

This is over-all.. The numbers amongst Independents & NPAs are much much worse for Democrats..

Democrats rolled the dice and came up snake-eyes...

Okay, here we go, we got a real pressure cooker going here

Holy cow, I think he's gonna make it

Always brings a smile when I hear the song.. :D

Even though it's likely the WORST possible thing the Dems could do, there is a 60% chance they will actually do it...

Anyone wanna go on the record with their bet??

Vote is Weds.....

Facts are facts..

If DeBlowHole hadn't handcuffed the NYPD and actually allowed cops to enforce the law, Majors might still be alive today...

It's heinous crimes like this that Broken Windows Policing is specifically designed to prevent..

I feel for Tessa Majors family.. But they need to blame the politicians, not lash out against the cops for speaking the facts...

“I propose, pursuant to our rules, that the Chief Justice on behalf of the Senate issue subpoenas for testimony by the following witnesses with direct knowledge of Administration decisions regarding the delay in security assistance funds to the government of Ukraine and the requests for certain investigations to be announced by the government of Ukraine: Robert Blair, Senior Advisor to the Acting White House Chief of Staff; Mick Mulvaney, Acting White House Chief of Staff; John Bolton, former National Security Advisor; and Michael Duffey, Associate Director for National Security, Office of Management and Budget.”
-Chuck Schumer, Dec 2019

What a difference the -D/-R makes, eh???

Sorry, Chuckie... House Dems wouldn't let GOP'ers call witnesses they wanted..

You think President Trump is gonna help ya at all??

Keep dreamin'....

Recently retired U.S. Air Force Lieutenant General Steven L. Kwast gave a lecture last month that seems to further signal that the next major battlefield will be outer space. While military leadership rattling the space sabers is nothing new, Kwast’s lecture included comments that heavily hint at the possibility that the United States military and its industry partners may have already developed next-generation technologies that have the potential to drastically change the aerospace field, and human civilization, forever. Is this mere posturing or could we actually be on the verge of making science fiction a reality?
https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/31445/recently-retired-usaf-general-makes-eyebrow-raising-claims-about-advanced-space-technology

Ridicule a US Space Force at ya'all's own peril..

It's sad day in Weigantia when denizens of Weigantia hate President Trump more than they like their Sci Fi....

RCP

Damn the Impeachment Torpedoes; Full Speed Ahead

Though the people of the great state of California may be happy to see President Trump impeached for coloring outside the lines, the people of the Midwest, South and Mountain West who voted for him to be the Great Disruptor no doubt see things very differently. After watching Congress do nothing for two years except try to unseat the people’s president on a host of trumped-up charges, it is very likely that there will be hell to pay in 2020. That means not just a Trump victory, but also a larger Republican majority in the Senate and very likely a House of Representatives that will flip from the Democrats to the Republicans.
https://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2019/12/16/damn_the_impeachment_torpedoes_full_speed_ahead_141959.html

Democrats have accomplished a feat I had not thought possible...

They have INCREASED the chances of a President Trump re-election...

Democrats have seemed to have done ALL the wrong things..

See what happens when one governs, blinded by hate and bigotry??

Democrats needed to take a step back a long time ago and do an honest and complete self-assessment... Had they done so, they might actually have a chance in 2020... But it's likely too late now..

Ahhhhh Sophomore High School.. :D

And the DOWN side to that would be... what exactly?? :D

Kill joy.... :D

It's really a shame when people simply can't accept that they lost.... :(

That brings back some very fond memories of New Jersey circa 1976 for me..

Thank you..

Or to put it another way, C.R. Stucki, there is no term so innocuous, technical or connotation free that the mean-minded cannot turn it into an insult.

"trhe mokuhlek nam-tor rai thrap wilat rim nam-tor taken"
-Sarek Of Vulan

Roughly translated.

"There can be no offense where none is taken"

Actually it was because the House approved the Articles Of Impeachment.

So it WAS a real impeachment..

And, since the GOP did, in fact, swing over a few Democrat votes against Clinton (I quoted 20 above because I read it someplace.. But wiki only has it at 5, so we'll go with that number) so technically, it was bi-partisan impeachment. But I readily concede it was bi-partisan in name only..

But your tap-dance that 2 Independents voting in favor of impeachment makes this a bi-partisan impeachment is pure moose poop...

If Democrats can't swing a SINGLE GOP vote to the AYE column to impeach, then this will be the glaring'est partisan impeachment in the history of the Republic.

And, based on the quotes from Democrats over the last 20+ years.. A partisan impeachment is not a legitimate impeachment..

What you refer to as my “hair splitting” is actually just me pointing out the flaws in your “logic”. You being wrong is all on you!

It's your opinion I am wrong.. As I pointed out 2 independents who caucus with Democrats voting in favor of impeachment simply does not make a bi-partisan impeachment. It's tap-dancing at it's lamest..

Liz and I have made an agreement that Dems pulling 20 House GOP'ers to vote AYE to impeachment would constitute a "bi-partisan" (and therefor) a legitimate impeachment..

I will allow that, if Democrats can pull even ONE GOP'er to vote AYE on impeachment in the House, you will have a (VERY SOMEWHAT) logical argument to make vis a vis "bi partisan" impeachment...

But, based on the writing on the wall, this is going to be a completely partisan impeachment with absolutely NO GOP support..

As I said, I give it a 60-40 that the AOI will pass the House.. I don't believe that the GOP can peel off 16-20 Dem votes... Even though, the AOI failing in the House would be the Democrats' best case scenario..

I'll take it one step further and predict that, of the 30+ Dems who face re-election in Trump areas, 25+ will lose their jobs in Nov of 2020...

and a meteor could strike the earth tonight and send up a cloud of dust preventing sunrise.

And even such as you describe would NOT prevent sunrise.. At best (worst??) it would prevent earthlings from SEEING the sunrise.. But it would not prevent the actual sunrise..

However, addressing the intent of your comment, yes.. something can happen that could prevent said prediction from coming thru...

But then we move into the area of statistical probabilities and from there, the sky's the limit..

Suffice it to say I think we can agree that, if President Trump perceives that he was won, there will be victory laps.. Numerous victory laps..

And President Trump will sail thru that.. His numbers will definitely rise a lot more..

i sincerely doubt it.

Really?? In the Senate Trial where President Trump is in complete control, you don't think he will just sail thru??

What do you base that on??

make donald the only president in history to be elected twice without winning the popular vote.

It's possible.. But in our system of elections winning the vanity vote is utterly irrelevant to actually winning the election..

However, this time around, with the disgust at Democrats for this failed faux impeachment coup, I think a tens of millions of Independents & NPAs are going to be turned to the Trump camp and millions of disgruntled & demoralized Trump haters are simple going to stay home..

So, President Trump winning the popular vote this time around, while still meaningless, is a distinct possibility..

it was more a general statement, most evident in your slightly demented citation of MLK2 to support the pretense that the people

You'll have to provide the quote so I can understand the context in which it was made..

I am fairly certain it was more along the lines of "Those who try to make an incident of racism where no such racism exists... THOSE people are the true racists."

IE the Michael Brown and the Trayvon Martin shooting..

But if you provide the quote and context, I can be more clarifying..

the fact that she went down the path of impeachment in spite of her ample reservations means (in my opinion) that she felt the evidence was SO compelling and overwhelming, the bipartisan part didn't matter enough to prevent going forward.

And yet, the bi-partisan part was given equal billing to the compelling and over-whelming..

When you consider the context of Biden's and Nadler's 1998 comments and Pelosi's & Schiff's 2019 comments, the one common thread IS "Bi Partisan"..

Ergo, it's logical to conclude that bi-partisan above all else is the most important factor..

Which is also supported by the fact that the founding fathers made a bipartisan impeachment the ONLY impeachment that could actually survive...

I would also submit (as I pointed out above) that a simple diplomatic phone such as one that ALL President's have had with foreign leaders ("Do this or you won't get that") hardly stacks up in the "compelling" nor "overwhelming" department when compared to Russia Collusion serious wise..

If Democrats weren't willing to push impeachment over High Treason (Russia Collusion) it seems to me to be ridiculous that they would push impeachment over a run o the mill diplomatic phone call which was, by comparison to Russia Collusion, the equivalence of an overdue library book..

Finally, it's telling that Democrats didn't include ANY of that in their 2 Articles Of Impeachment.

Like "Collusion", Democrats chose to "crimes" that are not even on the State or Federal books AS crimes..

The Dems charges are as nebulous and hazy and the evidence that the "supports" those charges..

So, I have to ask..

Is THIS the impeachment you wanted?? Or do you concede that Democrats blew ANOTHER opportunity to take down President Trump..

Would you agree that the Democrats' time would have been better spent actually legislating to give them something to point to in 2020 as a reason to to keep Democrats in power??

a sunrise is a human construct. i would argue that if we were all dead, the earth rotating on its axis wouldn't be a sunrise anymore.

Again, I disagree. A sunrise is no more a human construct than gravity is..

"If I drop a hammer on a high-gravity planet, I don't need to see if fall to know that it has fallen."
-Commander Spock, STAR TREK, Court-Martial

I could have gone with a bear defecating in the woods or a tree falling in a forest that no one sees, but when in doubt, always go with the Trek analogy.. :D

Speaking of a bear defecating in the woods..

"A bear and a rabbit are taking a shit in the woods. The bear asks the rabbit, 'Do you have problems with shit sticking to your fur??'. The rabbit replies, 'No, why?'... So, the bear wiped his ass with the rabbit."
-Eddie Murphy, DELIRIOUS

:D

But back to the point...

A sunrise is a sunrise, even if there is nothing alive to even know what a sunrise is...

Now we're moving into the realm of quantum theory, a la Schrodinger's Cat. And while we could have some fun with that, your intellect likely far out strips mine in that regard.. Everything I know of quantum physics I learned from Star Trek, Stargate SG1 and BTTF...

"You mean everything in Back To The Future was bullshit!!??"
-Scott Lang, AVENGERS-ENDGAME

As an aside, (assuming you have seen ENDGAME. Read no further if you haven't) the explanation that says you can't go back in time to the past to change your present seems to be completely bullshit.. If someone went back in time to killed little baby Hitler in his crib, it is certain that the traveler's present will be irrevocably altered.. Or would it simply create an alternate time line. If so which, timeline would the traveler return to???

"This is why Temporal Mechanics gives me nosebleeds"
-Geordi LaForge, STAR TREK TNG

You want to have a REAL Mind-Frak, read Stephen King's 11/22/1963.. Mind-blowing..

a sunrise is a human construct. i would argue that if we were all dead, the earth rotating on its axis wouldn't be a sunrise anymore.

it was more a general statement, most evident in your slightly demented citation of MLK2 to support the pretense that the people defending the public against racism are themselves the real racists. regarding impeachment, if you're going to quote biden and nadler, why not find something less than twenty years old? they've both been in public the whole time. since pelosi's quote is more recent, i'll address that one.

"unless there’s something so compelling and overwhelming and bipartisan, I don’t think we should go down that path.”

the fact that she went down the path of impeachment in spite of her ample reservations means (in my opinion) that she felt the evidence was SO compelling and overwhelming, the bipartisan part didn't matter enough to prevent going forward.

I want you, I need you
But-there ain't no way I'm ever gonna love you
Now don't be sad
'Cause two out of three ain't bad
~meat loaf

JL

Technically the meteor would have to strike the earth with such force as to stop it from rotating on its’ axis to prevent a sunrise from occurring. The cloud of dust would simply block the sunrise from being witnessed, but it would still occur. Granted, we’d all be dead if this happened, but I am pretty sure this is the only way to prevent a sunrise from occurring.

i sincerely doubt it. my quatloos say that you'll be voting for biden, and helping to make donald the only president in history to be elected twice without winning the popular vote.

shoot, i should have included THAT in my year-end nominations column. anyhow, you heard it here first.

JL

Your hair splitting is an epic fail..

Nope, you just proved my point! You called it the “Clinton impeachment”, which means it wasn’t an illegitimate impeachment...he was acquitted and wasn’t removed from office...but Clinton was impeached. Trump will be as well.

What you refer to as my “hair splitting” is actually just me pointing out the flaws in your “logic”. You being wrong is all on you!

I predict that, today, the sun will set in the west. I also predict that, tomorrow, then sun will rise in the east..

and a meteor could strike the earth tonight and send up a cloud of dust preventing sunrise. some predictions are more likely to be accurate than others, but irrespective of the probability of their occurrence they're still not facts until after they have happened.

i could go find that middle school youtube video if you like.

JL

"Dilly dilly"

:D

Nope.. Until the Full House votes in the affirmative on the Articles Of Impeachment, President Trump has not been impeached..

And, as I said, the BEST thing that could happen to Dems is that the AOI fails in the House.

Cuz, when this gets to the Senate, it's ALL President Trump's show.... ALL...

This is what REALLY BUGS everybody about you Michale. You twist reality to where it is NOT EVEN REMOTELY ACCURATE.

No.. What really BUGS everybody about me is that I am ALWAYS accurate.. And, what bugs ya'all MORE about me is that I always concede when I am not accurate before ya'all get a chance to jump 10-8 in my shit..

The recent Horowitz report is a perfect example of this. :D

Mueller STATED that he could NOT find enough evidence TO exonerate the president.

Not factually accurate. Mueller completely exonerated President Trump on Russia Collusion, which is what we were discussing..

Mueller claimed he could not make a determination on the Obstruction so he left the exoneration of Obstruction to the AG and the AG exonerated President Trump on that.

So, either by self or by proxy, Mueller totally exonerated and vindicated on Russia Collusion and Obstruction in the Russia Collusion..

You have some wiggle room on those points, I will grant you. TOE-MAY-TOE TOE-MAA-TOE etc etc...

But you will have NO WIGGLE ROOM WHATSOEVER when the Senate completely and utterly exonerates and vindicates President Trump on the current nebulous, hazy and ambiguous Articles of Impeachment..

Assuming the AOI makes it thru the house...

I give it a 60-40 shot that the AOI will pass the House...

Then it becomes President Trump's show..

And lord have mercy on ya'all's souls if that comes to pass...

I am trying to do you a favor here Michale if you would ONLY LISTEN and be more JUDICIOUS in your CHOICE OF WORDS.

In other words, if I used wishy-washy hazy ambiguous words you would prefer?? :D

Usually I choose my words very precisely to convey the exact meaning I intend to convey..

"I distinctly remember saying, 'Stop the bus.' Not 'shoot the bus.' '*Stop* the bus.' I'm very particular with my words. 'Stop.' 'Shoot.' 'Stop.' 'Shoot.' Do those words sound the same?"
-Pagan Min, FAR CRY 4

Since the point of that particular discussion was victory laps, it doesn't really matter if you think Mueller exonerated Trump or not.. It only matters that TRUMP thought it was exoneration and THAT prompted the "victory lap", which was the point of mine and JL's discussion..

Many of you people tend to nitpick at my comments and find a lame or typo in a tertiary or supplementary part of my comment and claim that said lame/typo disqualifies my entire comment..

Personally, I take that as a compliment as it's a concession of the validity of my main point..

But I do admit that sometimes, it gets tedious and tiresome to have to keep repeating the same valid points until there is nothing left to nit pick...

C'est le' vie

It's called **BI** Partisan... Not ***TRI** Partisan..

It is Democrats and those who caucus as Democrats who are in favor of impeachment.

During the Clinton impeachment, GOP had 30 House Democrats on their side.

And THAT wasn't even considered a bi-partisan impeachment...

Your hair splitting is an epic fail..

Based on the criteria that you keep harping on... that means that impeachment is legitimate!

Only in your la-la land...

"However, Trump will still be held accountable symbolically for his misdeeds, since it will become a permanent stain on his record, going down in history as only the 3rd president to ever be impeached.

No, that is not what's going to happen."

Sorry, but it HAS ALREADY HAPPENED.

"Trump will use this impeachment to do victory lap after victory lap.. Trump will crow from the highest heavens that he has been vindicated and exonerated TWICE..."

This is what REALLY BUGS everybody about you Michale. You twist reality to where it is NOT EVEN REMOTELY ACCURATE.

Mueller STATED that he could NOT find enough evidence TO exonerate the president.

A LACK of evidence for a finding of ONE WAY OR THE OTHER, is NOT HE SAME as a finding of INNOCENCE.

You CANNOT keep CONFLATING the TWO as EQUIVALENT without losing YOUR CREDIBILITY Michale.

I am trying to do you a favor here Michale if you would ONLY LISTEN and be more JUDICIOUS in your CHOICE OF WORDS.

Justin Amash is not a Democrat, he is an Independent. He’s voted in favor of the articles of impeachment. Therefore, it is not solely the Democrats that are in favor of impeachment.

Based on the criteria that you keep harping on... that means that impeachment is legitimate!

Liz... Liz.... My old friend Liz... :D

Sure, it should have been started, given the NOT perfect transcript of the call between the US president (most powerful man in the world) and the newly elected Ukrainian president (not in the same universe, power politics speaking, and highly dependent on the US president for help in turning back Russian aggression in his country) who was indeed pressured to do Trump a personal political favour even if he denied in public that this pressure had been exerted.

Sure the phone call was not perfect.. I doubt there exists in all the annals of President phone calls one that IS perfect...

But once again. Not having a "perfect" phone call is not an impeachable offense..

But there was no pressure. President Zelensky has stated as such on NUMEROUS occasions that he felt no pressure for anything..

If you have any FACTS that show President Zelensky is lying, by all means.. Let's hear them..

But it is a non-factual claim to say that President Zelensky was "pressured" by President Trump. There exists NO FACTS to support the claim.

Asking a foreign government for help in finding dirt on your political rivals and using the power of the highest political office in the land to ensure that the foreign government provide that help by withholding military aid and public support for that government in its hot war against the Russians is a high crime that no president before Trump had done.

Factually not accurate.. First of all, the "favor" President Trump asked for was for assistance in routing out the corruption of the 2016 presidential election is nothing untoward..

I am also constrained to point out that the US setting conditions on countries receiving US aid has been a time-honored tradition since there there WAS a US...

Finally, there could have been absolutely NO PRESSURE based on the delay of the aid because, at the time of the call, the Ukrainians were not even aware the aid was being delayed..

So, let's consider the facts... President Trump & President Zelensky talked about future military aid, not the current aid package still in the pipeline. Trump asked if Zelensky could look into the the corruption of the 2016 election from the Ukrainian side of things and, while Zelensky was at it, look into the Hunter Biden corruption...

Zelensky said, "sure, no problemo" or words to that effect...

And that was the phone call..

While the manners and dialogs certainly were not Emily Post, there was nothing untoward or impeachable there..

Have you considered that the president forced her hand by acting in such behavior as described above? At the very least, she had to begin a congressional investigation.

Yes, I considered that.. And discarded it.

Because, if you line up both the Ukraine Call and Russia Collusion side by side, Russia Collusion (had it been factually accurate) was much much MUCH worse than the Ukraine phone call..

By comparison, the Ukraine phone call was a minor statistical blip..

Put another way. When it comes to seriousness, Russia Collusion was high treason..

The Ukraine Phone call was an overdue library book...

So, given this. The ONLY logical conclusion that fits the facts is that Pelosi was given data and stats that show how the 2020 election is slipping away from the Democrats so she needed something... ANYTHING... to distract the American people.. So she choose this innocuous Ukraine phone call "whistle blower" complaint..

Another possibility is that the forces of the Far Left Dems who wanted impeachment had something on Pelosi that was serious enough to force Pelosi to their will..

No other reasons make any sense for Pelosi to violate her "compelling and overwhelming and bipartisan" pledge..

Let's face the facts.. The Ukraine call is neither compelling, overwhelming and it sure as hell ain't bipartisan...

I would love to find out exactly why Pelosi did this 180... But it's likely that it was 2020 election data that forced her to abandon her pledge..

Given the circumstances of the president's consistent behavior since taking office, you can't possibly blame the Democrats for trying!

Yes, I can.. And I do..

If Democrats had honestly given President Trump a chance then I could see your point..

But Democrats have been talking impeachment since EVEN BEFORE President Trump took office!!!

Get that!?? Democrats wanted to impeach President Trump even BEFORE he was President Trump!!

So, yea I can blame Democrats... This impeachment has been the Democrat plan since Nov 10th, 2016..

Given this fact, it's quite easy to blame Democrats..

I'm pretty sure that Madison never imagined one party wholly acting in the way this Republican party has by completely ignoring any wrongdoing by this president.

Again with respect I disagree...

Madison probably imagined this EXACT scenario where an entire party would rally for/against an unpopular elected POTUS..

Which is exactly why they made the bar so high in the Senate..

I am sure that, if Madison et al had envisioned the type of hate that President Trump instilled in people, they would have made an equally high bar for the House..

Apparently, while prescient, the founding fathers were not perfect..

Nothing about this affair is simple, not least the explanation for the behavior of one party in its virtual entirety to put blinders on when it comes to the wrongdoing of the president.

That's because you refuse to see the facts and the reality from the other side..

"No, you were right and I was wrong so.... what?? We're no longer family??"
-Jeanne Miller, STARGATE ATLANTIS

That's my special gift.. My superpower, if you will.

I CAN see and acknowledge both sides of an argument..

President Trump is boorish and crass and vulgar and narcissistic and an arrogant prick..

I see that.. Ya'all are completely factually accurate with those claims..

But where ya'all are wrong is equating those qualities with being impeachable...

President Trump can be a royal ass.. More often than not..

But THAT is not impeachable..

Ya'all make the mistake that your opinions of President Trump constitute and justify impeachment...

And I simply point out ya'all are wrong...

Sorry.. That's taken.. :D

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9mGNhvkVT8Q

predictions aren't facts,

Sure they are..

I predict that, today, the sun will set in the west. I also predict that, tomorrow, then sun will rise in the east..

Some predictions CAN be considered facts dependent on what they are based on..

President Trump's victory laps when he has perceived he has won is an example of such predictions = facts..

but i agree that is likely exactly what he'll do. the question is whether or not the voting public will buy it.

Considering the voting public bought it after the Russia Collusion delusion victory laps, it's a good bet that history will repeat itself..

The question is, why would Democrats risk it??

Answer: Because Democrats thought they would be greeted as liberators...

Agreed??

the answer to that question is probably not, and he'll likely win re-election in spite of it, not because of it.

Disagree. President Trump's numbers rose considerably after his Russia Collusion Delusion victory laps..

This time we're talking about the nuclear response of politics.. Impeachment..

And President Trump will sail thru that.. His numbers will definitely rise a lot more..

About the only thing that Democrats could do that would give President Trump's re-election campaign a BIGGER shot in the arm is an ACTUAL failed assassination attempt instead of just the political/legal version of same they are trying now..

you're also going to have to start including the year any time you quote anyone, because you tend to intentionally take things so completely out of their historical context as to render them meaningless.

For example??

Nadler's and Biden's quotes were 1998.... Pelosi's & Schiff's quotes were 2019...

The fact that ALL quotes say basically the EXACT same thing would seem to indicate that age of the quote is not relevant to the validity of the sentiment expressed.

Ample FACTS, in the form of quotes, exist to establish the logical conclusion that, in the minds of Democrats, a partisan impeachment is not a legitimate impeachment.. And that has been the Democrat Party position for over 20 years...

If you have facts/quotes to offer that disputes this??

Perot...All Ears....

This impeachment is not legitimate...Which is why it never should have been started..

Sure, it should have been started, given the NOT perfect transcript of the call between the US president (most powerful man in the world) and the newly elected Ukrainian president (not in the same universe, power politics speaking, and highly dependent on the US president for help in turning back Russian aggression in his country) who was indeed pressured to do Trump a personal political favour even if he denied in public that this pressure had been exerted.

Asking a foreign government for help in finding dirt on your political rivals and using the power of the highest political office in the land to ensure that the foreign government provide that help by withholding military aid and public support for that government in its hot war against the Russians is a high crime that no president before Trump had done.

Pelosi herself said that she won't authorize impeachment unless it was bi-partisan..Why did she change her mind??

Have you considered that the president forced her hand by acting in such behavior as described above? At the very least, she had to begin a congressional investigation.

Exactly... The framers understood that Party zealotry might get in the way so they made it so an impeachment CAN'T WORK strictly along Party Lines..Democrats are ignoring that wisdom and trying it anyways..

Given the circumstances of the president's consistent behavior since taking office, you can't possibly blame the Democrats for trying!

I disagree.. I am all but certain that the Founding Fathers KNEW that a Party would coalesce around it's leader and fight for him..

Of course, that is not what I meant about one party throwing a spanner in the works as was done here. I'm pretty sure that Madison never imagined one party wholly acting in the way this Republican party has by completely ignoring any wrongdoing by this president.

It really is THAT simple..

Nothing about this affair is simple, not least the explanation for the behavior of one party in its virtual entirety to put blinders on when it comes to the wrongdoing of the president.

I'm done with you on this issue because you are acting with extreme intellectual dishonesty.

Sorry I suppose for any perceived insensitivity.

'Retarded' initially came into use as an euphemism for 'handicapped', however, once it achieved universal acceptance, , it became de-facto pejorative in the course of the natural progression of all euphemisms. Think 'queer' as an euphemism for 'homosexual', followed by 'gay' as an euphemism for 'queer', inevitably to be followd by who knows, perhaps'dilly'.

The entire process of course, representing PC run amok!

predictions aren't facts, but i agree that is likely exactly what he'll do. the question is whether or not the voting public will buy it.

the answer to that question is probably not, and he'll likely win re-election in spite of it, not because of it.

JL

No, that is not what's going to happen.

Trump will use this impeachment to do victory lap after victory lap.. Trump will crow from the highest heavens that he has been vindicated and exonerated TWICE...

We both know this is factually accurate..

What Democrats will have done is give President Trump a YYUUUGGGEEEE win that he will ride all the way to the election..

Once again Democrats have forgotten the age old adage..

"If you are going to try and kill the king... You better KILL the king."

Another old adage would seem to apply here..

"Beware the Ides of March"

Thernberg is learning the Left Wingery lessons well... :eyeroll:

If ya can't convince people with your words, let the executions begin!!

Yea, it sucks how mortality creeps up on us all....

Thanx John M...

How many quatloos do you want to wager on that? I will be you:

2) If Warren is the Democratic nominee, she will win the presidency over Donald Trump

Warren cannot win against President Trump.. Independents and NPAs will run from her in droves.. Her bans on fraking and fossil fuels alone makes her un-electable.. Her plan to eliminate all private health insurance is simply the cherry on top..

You name the stakes and I'll accept anything you put forth..

Yes, and it was a totally foregone and not unexpected result, since the Labour candidate Corbyn was flawed and damaged goods.

Actually, that's not factually accurate... The world media breathlessly went on and on about how close and election this was going to be...

Only the huge size of Boris Johnson's win was surprising, not the fact that he won.

OK, this I can agree with.. So, BoJo's utter TROUNCING of the liberals in the UK has no bearing on election dynamics here?? Is that what you are saying??

Let me put it another way... it is going exactly as expected.

I don't believe you.. :D If ya'all had expected the impeachment to go this way, ya'all would NEVER have supported it..

All the Democrats will vote for impeachment, none of the Republicans will.

Yep.. And according to Biden and Pelosi and Nadler and Schiff... That makes this impeachment NOT legitimate...

However, Trump will still be held accountable symbolically for his misdeeds, since it will become a permanent stain on his record, going down in history as only the 3rd president to ever be impeached.

Censure would have done just that as well without ripping the country apart...

Democrats rolled the dice and lost.. They thought for SURE they could get a GOP'er (likely SEVERAL GOP'ers) to their side...

And I am also constrained to point out that, until the House actually passes the Articles of Impeachment, President Trump has NOT been impeached...

And, I have to say in all honestly.. The BEST thing to happen to Democrats is that the AOI fails..

Because if this moves to the Senate??? Democrats are going to need a priest..

As for the Senate, obviously there are not going to be enough votes there to remove Trump from office, however, there still might be enough Republican defections to get a bare majority of 50 to 53 votes for impeachment.

Assumes facts not in evidence..

There will be no GOP defections in the Senate anymore than there will be GOP defections in the House.

No, this is DEMOCRATS baby all the way to the wire..

And, history will not look kindly on Democrats putting the entire country thru this whole divisive mess, SOLELY based on Party agenda...

Look what happened to the GOP after Clinton?? And THEY had TRUE bi-partisan support in the form of 30 House Democrats voting with the GOP against Clinton...

And the GOP was shellacked in subsequent elections..

How do you think it's going to look for Dems when it's a straight down the Party line impeachment..

It's got to be called what it is.. A coup...

Pure and simple...

I don't see where CRS mentioned anything about autism.. If he had *I* would have spoken out as I have a grandson who is autistic..

While the terminology is crude, this Thornberg girl IS either a complete moron for actually believing in this global warming con..

Or she has media savvy beyond her years as a Left Wingery operative who knows how to say the right things, push the right buttons and have the Global Warming sheeple eating out of her hand...

The FACT that she was given TIME's PERSON OF THE YEAR over the Hong Kong protesters??

Proves it's nothing but politics at play...

Nothing more..

I'm fairly well up on the autism thing. I have at least one autistic grandkid. The Google def. of 'retarded' is "less advanced in mental, physical or social development".

My experience and observation is that the "social" part of it is normally the hallmark of the disability.

It was not my intent to impute mental retardation to the Thunberg girl.

You are simply jumping to the erroneous conclusion that because the "retarded" terminology has acquired a pejoritive connotation among teenagers, that the term should be proscribed from normal discourse. I disagree.

And, I'm agreeing with YOU … and Biden.

That's great.. It's always nice to have common ground.. :D

But, that still doesn't make the president pure as the driven snow!!!!

And no one claiming it does, least of all me..

President Trump is an arrogant narcissistic asshole..

Obama ALSO was arrogant and narcissistic and could be an asshole at times..

It's the nature of the beast..

But my point is, those qualities are NOT impeachable..

It simply means that the president got away with impeachable behavior

Here's where we part ways.. NONE of President Trump's conduct was impeachable..

President Trump hasn't done anything that Obama, or Bush or Clinton hadn't done before him..

because this impeachment is going nowhere because it's practically purely partisan, FOR GOD'S SAKE!!! and, therefore, for good or evil, ILLIGITIMATE.

Sigh. Am I making myself clear. now?

Yes you are. We are in complete agreement. This impeachment is not legitimate...

Which is why it never should have been started..

Pelosi herself said that she won't authorize impeachment unless it was bi-partisan..

Why did she change her mind??

The framers of the US constitution came up with a pretty good idea of including an impeachment clause to protect against corruptible power.

Exactly... The framers understood that Party zealotry might get in the way so they made it so an impeachment CAN'T WORK strictly along Party Lines..

Democrats are ignoring that wisdom and trying it anyways..

The fact that most everyone here is going along with it simply indicates the depth of hatred for President Trump..

But, they probably never imagined that one entire party could and would throw a spanner in the works.

I disagree.. I am all but certain that the Founding Fathers KNEW that a Party would coalesce around it's leader and fight for him..

Which is exactly why the made it so that only a BI-PARTISAN impeachment would be workable..

A Partisan impeachment simply cannot stand.. It WON'T stand.. It won't be ALLOWED to stand..

And the Party who TRIES a solely Partisan impeachment will pay the price at the ballot box..

It really is THAT simple..

Because, well, THEY WERE TOO YOUNG! Let that be some sort of lesson for Democratic primary voters, never mind the caucusers ...

The lesson that needs to be learned is to put COUNTRY before Party...

Pelosi herself said:

“Impeachment is so divisive to the country that unless there’s something so compelling and overwhelming and bipartisan, I don’t think we should go down that path because it divides the country.”

So, what changed her mind???

It surely wasn't that milquetoast Trump/Zelensky phone call. A phone call that BOTH sides of the call (Trump/Zelensky) said there was no undue pressure, no quid pro quo and nothing untoward..

So, what caused Pelosi to do a complete 180??

My *guess* is she saw the election dynamics and the lot of Democrats candidates, one of which will face President Trump in Nov of 2020 and panicked..

But for whatever reason, Pelosi in Sep 2019 totally and utterly ignored the wisdom of Pelosi Mar 2019...

Michale

"Well I have to say that you people are simply useless during my convalescence... :("

All other things aside, I do wish you a speedy recovery. I myself had a heart attack and angioplasty surgery and stent placement about 5 years ago.

"The Dems have as much chance of taking the Senate as Warren has of winning the White House..."

How many quatloos do you want to wager on that? I will be you:

1) The Democrats will take over the Senate in 2020, if not at least make it a 50 / 50 split and...

2) If Warren is the Democratic nominee, she will win the presidency over Donald Trump

"And you saw what happened in the UK over the weekend, right??"

Yes, and it was a totally foregone and not unexpected result, since the Labour candidate Corbyn was flawed and damaged goods. With someone better, Labour might have fought the Tories to a draw. Only the huge size of Boris Johnson's win was surprising, not the fact that he won.

"Is the impeachment going exactly as you hoped it would??"

Let me put it another way... it is going exactly as expected. All the Democrats will vote for impeachment, none of the Republicans will. However, Trump will still be held accountable symbolically for his misdeeds, since it will become a permanent stain on his record, going down in history as only the 3rd president to ever be impeached.

As for the Senate, obviously there are not going to be enough votes there to remove Trump from office, however, there still might be enough Republican defections to get a bare majority of 50 to 53 votes for impeachment.

BIDEN made himself clear when he said a partisan impeachment is an illegitimate impeachment...

And, I'm agreeing with YOU … and Biden.

But, that still doesn't make the president pure as the driven snow!!!! It simply means that the president got away with impeachable behavior - not once but twice, maybe even three times, IN MY OPINION since this is an OPINION BLOG, ISN'T IT!!? - because this impeachment is going nowhere because it's practically purely partisan, FOR GOD'S SAKE!!! and, therefore, for good or evil, ILLIGITIMATE.

Sigh. Am I making myself clear. now?

The framers of the US constitution came up with a pretty good idea of including an impeachment clause to protect against corruptible power.

But, they probably never imagined that one entire party could and would throw a spanner in the works. Because, well, THEY WERE TOO YOUNG! Let that be some sort of lesson for Democratic primary voters, never mind the caucusers ...

No. You really are not making yourself clear..

BIDEN made himself clear when he said a partisan impeachment is an illegitimate impeachment...

Why do all of Democrat's claims and integrity go out the window when it's Trump??

Do the ends justify the means??

That's now what Joe Biden said...

Apples and oranges, you know. Am I not making myself clear?

That would be redundant.

Not redundant enough, apparently. Ahem.

Anti-impeachment Democrat Jeff Van Drew meets with Trump to discuss party switch
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/jeff-van-drew-donald-trump-party-switch

The hits just keep on coming...

I am SURE that, since ya'all made such a fuss and spectacle when that Amash guy left the GOP, ya'all will be fair and balanced about this Party switch??

I mean, ya'all are about fair and balance right??? :D

I wish President Trump would do some stupid gaffe that would bring ya'all to your keyboards gloating how it's the end of Trump...

With things going so awesome for President Trump and this country, ya'all are simply no fun at all..

Allow me to throw ya'all some hope...

Is a trap being set for Trump in the Senate trial?

The political charade of an impeachment “investigation” is but the latest example. But that impeachment charade could harbor the greatest threat to Trump’s presidency.
https://thehill.com/opinion/white-house/474242-is-a-trap-being-set-for-trump-in-the-senate-trial

Something for ya'all to dream about and warm the cockles of yer hearts.

Don't say I never do anything for ya'all.... :D

SHOCKING!!

Who could have POSSIBLY predicted this... :D

No wonder Time Magazine has lost all relevance in the news business. Henry Luce must be rolling in his grave.

Give her credit...

At such a young age, she knew which buttons to push that would bring the sheeple flocking to her door to listen to her bullshit..

That's no small accomplishment...

We're seeing a female Jim Jones rising up...

The kool-aid cometh....

No wonder Time Magazine has lost all relevance in the news business. Henry Luce must be rolling in his grave.

(emphasis mine)

There you have it people... This impeachment is NOT legitimate by ANY stretch of the definition.

If ya'all don't want to take Joe Biden's word for it..

“Impeachment is so divisive to the country that unless there’s something so compelling and overwhelming and bipartisan, I don’t think we should go down that path because it divides the country.”

How about Nancy Pelosi's words????

No matter how ya'all want to spin it, by the Democrats' own words...

This impeachment is not legitimate...

Again... Flaw...?? Logic...?? All Ears...??? Ross Perot....

They simply followed the Russia Collusion delusion playbook..

Find a "crime".. Get some obscure meaningless sod to make the claim.. Then use all their investigative powers the House Dems have to dig into every aspect of Trump's existence and hope they hit pay dirt..

"There has GOT to be something there because it's well.. yunno... Trump!!!"
-House Democrats

As I said.. Easy to figure out...

What's hard to figure is why, since the Russia Collusion delusion playbook failed so utterly and completely, why would House Democrats think it would work THIS time around???

"Learning the controls 's easy.. It's reading Klingon.. Now THAT is hard."
-Captain Scott, STAR TREK IV

Once again, if there is a flaw in the logic....

"I am all ears"
-H Ross Perot

Labour’s wipeout in yesterday’s British election highlights the transnational defection of the white working class and deepens the global crisis of the social democratic left.
https://prospect.org/world/et-tu-uk-labour-victory-british-election/

I am surprised there was no mention of the UK elections in this FTP

Surely this bedrock example of the world wide Leftist/Socialist on the run and being decimated has some bearing over US Politics..

Fact is, Leftist/Socialist US Dem candidates are running scared and Left-moderate US Dem candidates are singing to the high heavens..

I know, I know.. The general consensus around here is to simply ignore bad news and hope it goes away..

Howz that werkin' out for ya'all??? :D

Grrr.. PROOFREAD, Michale!! PROOFREAD!!!

That's not what Joe Biden said...

"In the case of an impeachment, fair means bipartisan. Once the election is held, our leaders hold office until the next election. It is simply antithetical to our constitutional democracy to use impeachment to overturn an election on partisan grounds. It violates the independence of the presidency and it usurps the people’s voice."

Just because the process for impeachment falls along strictly party lines, more or less, resulting in acquittal in the Senate, doesn't mean that the president didn't commit an impeachable offence against the constitution.

That's now what Joe Biden said...

"In the case of an impeachment, fair means bipartisan. Once the election is held, our leaders hold office until the next election. It is simply antithetical to our constitutional democracy to use impeachment to overturn an election on partisan grounds. It violates the independence of the presidency and it usurps the people’s voice."

It is beyond question.. Beyond doubt that this is a Partisan impeachment.. Period. Full stop..

And THAT is harmful to our country in so many ways, not the least of which giving Putin and the Russians cause for great joy and glee...

Put plainly, Democrats are doing Putin's bidding...

It's really THAT simple...

Is that factually accurate???

An agreement on a new U.S.-Mexico-Canada trade deal.
A new budget including more than $1.3 billion for a border wall and blocks a government shutdown.

The signing of a pro-Israel anti-Semitism executive order.

The chances of President Trump's re-election continue to grow and grow... :D

Plus there is a new Wall Street record. Didn't ya'all claim that Wall Street would explode if Trump was elected??

Well, in a way, ya'all are right.. Wall Street HAS exploded... :D Just not in the way ya'all predicted..

So, while Democrats are crying in their coffee that they can't get a single fact to support a single real impeachment charge, President Trump is racking up some real and tangible wins...

Whatcha'all think?? Maybe it's time to simply concede 2020 to President Trump and plan for 2024??

Because, let's face reality, people...

President Trump is steam-rolling all over Democrats...

You are such a slave to the ideology of Trump cult worship, FACTS mean nothing to you.

Lemme know when you have any actual facts and we can test your theory... :D

Yea.. Cuz going into space is such a useless, ridiculous and "vain" endeavor, right??

Funny how you Dems were all for going into space when it was a Democrat POTUS pushing it, eh??

Thereby proving without a doubt that the only thing at play here is the -D vs -R dynamic..

It's really sad here to see commenters sneering at space endeavors..

What's next?? Snide comments on how crappy Star Trek is??

Once again, the differences between the old reality based Weigantia and this new HHPTDS infused Weigantia are plain to see...

TRANSLATION: There are no FACTS to support ya'all's claims. Just nothing but hearsay..

Matter of fact, the **ONLY** people who actually have FIRST HAND eyewitness accounts of the phone call have stated unequivocally that President Trump specifically ruled out 'quid pro quo'...

But hay.. I am a fair guy.. If Democrats have the FACTS for quid pro quo or bribery or whatever, why weren't those charges included in the Articles of Impeachment??

I'll tell you why.. Because Democrats don't have the facts to back up the charges..

NOT irrelevant at all. You know very damn well that if Trump did win a Nobel, you would turn 180 degrees on a dime so fast that you would give yourself whiplash. You're not fooling anyone Michale.

Irrelevant and mind-reading..

Meaning, of course, that if Democrats take over control of the Senate,

You just HAVE to know how much you are dreaming, right??

The Dems have as much chance of taking the Senate as Warren has of winning the White House...

And you saw what happened in the UK over the weekend, right??

But hay, since yer here..

Is the impeachment going exactly as you hoped it would??

"You don't have to live in Kentucky to vote against Mitch McConnell."

Meaning, of course, that if Democrats take over control of the Senate, Mitch ceases to be majority leader of the Senate regardless what happens in his own race in Kentucky.

"ive me one of those "ample" FACTS with the sources to back them up..

I'll wait.."

Why bother??? Since you have your head so far up your ass regarding reality all the time anyway. What really Michale would be the point??? You are such a slave to the ideology of Trump cult worship, FACTS mean nothing to you.

"And if Trump gets a Nobel, he'll turn it down. Not.

Irrelevant and mind-reading.."

NOT irrelevant at all. You know very damn well that if Trump did win a Nobel, you would turn 180 degrees on a dime so fast that you would give yourself whiplash. You're not fooling anyone Michale.

Give me one of those "ample" FACTS with the sources to back them up..

I'll wait..

And if Trump gets a Nobel, he'll turn it down. Not.

Irrelevant and mind-reading..

That's all ya'all ever have...

You said just the opposite when this impeachment saga started..

I think Congress should add to the criminal code making it illegal for a president to solicit, bribe, extort or otherwise attempt to coerce a foreign entity, government or individual into providing assistance in any way shape or form in order to influence the outcome of any political office, local, state or national.

Fair enough.

But as things stand NOW, there is no such "crime" as ABUSE OF POWER or OBSTRUCTION OF CONGRESS..

Like Democrats' love affair with "collusion" during the Russia delusion...

As to Pelosi disappointing some Democrats: "the perfect is the enemy of the good". If this week accomplished nothing else, it puts the lie to Trump's continuing attacks of 'do-nothing' Democrats. Never mind that FOX News will parrot his campaign slogans, anyone who hasn't drunk the koolaid will notice.

When the 2020 campaign season kicks into high gear, every Democratic candidate must hammer their Republican adversary with every 'no' vote (or non-vote in the case of the Senate). Believe it or not, many Americans don't realize that the Senate is controlled by the Republicans and Democrats must educate (or remind) the voter at every opportunity.

And if Trump gets a Nobel, he'll turn it down. Not.

That would be redundant. It's already against the law to solicit, bribe, extort, or otherwise attempt to coerce a foreign entity to provide assistance in any way, shape or form to your election.

But of course, Republicants don't recognize any laws or norms until the balance of power shifts, or at least until Moscow Mitch is out of the picture.

The facts are ample. You just refuse to admit them.

Just because the process for impeachment falls along strictly party lines, more or less, resulting in acquittal in the Senate, doesn't mean that the president doesn't deserve to be impeached

That's not what was said weeks ago when this started.. It was virtually universally agreed (by those who made their positions clear) that an impeachment must be bi-partisan to be legitimate.. And, of course, there are all the Biden/Pelosi/Schiff/Nadler quotes as well saying the same thing..

And, ironically, to date, the ONLY bi-partisan positions are from those who oppose impeachment..

Just because the process for impeachment falls along strictly party lines, more or less, resulting in acquittal in the Senate, doesn't mean that the president didn't commit an impeachable offence against the constitution.

Really??

I have to say you are wrong.

INNOCENT UNTIL PROVEN GUILTY IN A COURT OF LAW..

The bedrock of US Jurisprudence..

When President Trump is acquitted in the Senate, it will be a factual statement that President Trump is **INNOCENT** of all charges...

How do you define a "high crime" as stated in the constitution, Michale?

I don't.. It's not my place..

But what I can tell you for an ABSOLUTE FACT that there is no such crime as ABUSE OF POWER or OBSTRUCTION OF CONGRESS in ANY State or Federal Criminal code..

Democrats are choosing hazy, nebulous "crimes" because all the evidence they have is also hazy and nebulous..

The first tip off as to how bad a shape the Democrats are in is that they had to FOCUS GROUP the charges??

"Forget what the FACTS say, let's just FOCUS GROUP a charge!!! So much easier!!!"

The BEST thing to happen to Democrats is if they lose the vote in the House..

Because if this makes it to the Senate??? It's going to a MASSACRE of Democrats..

"From what I've read, if this makes it to court, he's going to need a priest more than a lawyer"
-Tom Cruise, A FEW GOOD MEN

Apples and alligators..

Thornberg willingly put herself into the political scene and was not dragged into it, as Barron Trump was..

You yourself has stated that POTUS children should NOT be dragged into a political brawl..

Apparently, that only applies to POTUS children NOT named Trump..

There really should be a playbill put out so one can keep track of all the honorable pearls of wisdom and righteous positions of integrity that DOESN'T apply to people named Trump.

Would make things easier.

As for Thornburg and her getting the Nobel??

That was even MORE stupid than Odumbo getting the Nobel...

Which simply proves that the Nobel isn't worth shit these days...

It's purely Politically Correct bullshit..

Just because the process for impeachment falls along strictly party lines, more or less, resulting in acquittal in the Senate, doesn't mean that the president didn't commit an impeachable offence against the constitution.

How do you feel about those 2 Articles??

I mean, from all the hoity toity talk about "quid pro quo" and "bribery" and "extortion, Democrats only come out with TWO Impeachment Articles...

NEITHER of which has any basis in State or Federal law???

It's the Russia Collusion delusion all over again..

Pretending there is a crime and then coming up with ZERO FACTS to support the pretend crime..

Is this impeachment everything you hoped it would be???

The evidence shows that Donald J. Trump, the president of the United States, has put himself before his country. He has violated his most basic responsibilities to the people. He has broken his oath. I will honor mine. If you would honor yours, then I urge you to your duty.

Of course there are no facts to prove ANY of what Nadler claims..

But I also have a Nadler quote..

"There must never be a narrowly voted impeachment or an impeachment substantially supported by one of our major political parties and largely opposed by the other. Such an impeachment would lack legitimacy, would produce divisiveness and bitterness in our politics for years to come. And will call into question the very legitimacy of our political institutions. We have no right to overturn the considered judgment of the American people"
-Jerry Nadler

I guess, for Nadler, (and most everyone here) it ALL depends on who is being impeached.

A POTUS with a -D after his name or a POTUS with a -R after his name..

:^/