If it's a hoax then Manafirt, Cohen, Flynn (eventually) and other high level Trump officials are serving time over some illusion.

And I suppose it will likewise be an ically as a result of this Impeachment process.illusion when Trump is removed from office or fatally damaged politically.

Do you think that either party has somehow suspended such "Focus Group" identify where the voters are activities? Impeachment (in the House) will NOT happen if no evidence of "Bribery, High Crimes and Misdemeanors" are voted over to the Senate regardless of any Focus Group results.

Which is what makes the Republicans argument of “First it was quid pro quo, now it’s bribery...Democrats keep changing their minds,” such a joke! “Quid pro quo” is not a criminal charge, it’s an element of a crime.

Yes! Quid pro quo is a necessary element for proving the crime of bribery. That the President of the United States would keep claiming repeatedly that there was "no quid pro quo" and he didn't want anything when he's already confessed on the South lawn of the White House that he wanted "a major investigation into the Bidens" and also said that China should start an investigation into the Bidens... tells anyone everything they need to know. Here's the video confession:

https://www.cnn.com/videos/politics/2019/10/03/china-should-investigate-biden-trump-sot-nr-vpx.cnn

What with all the emails and testimony to the contrary and Trump's own admission on the South lawn of the White House, it's ludicrous for the dipshit Trump cultists and Trump himself to now try to claim that he wanted nothing from President Zelensky and Ukraine. Trump quite obviously wanted a foreign government to smear his political opponent in order to help him win reelection in 2020 and clear Russia for their involvement in the 2016 election. Trump isn't fighting corruption by any stretch of the imagination; Trump is promoting corruption.

So Trump claiming now that he said "I want nothing... I want nothing... I want no quid pro quo" is basically the equivalent of Trump saying "I'm not orange... I'm not orange... I want no orange coloring on my face." *laughs*

Just like ya'all didn't care when Odumbo left Ukraine defenseless so as not to upset his BFF, Putin.. The guy Odumbo promised to be "flexible" for...

Thank you for that admission that Trump is Vladimir Putin's Bitch, Mike, because if you believe your mischaracterized regular spew regarding Barack Obama makes him Putin's BFF, then you've basically just conceded that Trump standing on a stage in Helsinki, Finland, and bowing down repeatedly to Vlad while the world watched him grovel and suck it definitely makes Donald Trump Putin's Bitch... on a very short leash.

Now, allow me yet again to correct your repetitive lying about the aid to Ukraine during the Obama administration:

The Obama administration didn't leave the Ukraine defenseless as you keep lying on this forum... because you're Trump's sucker and lying useful dipshit. The United States during the administration of President Obama did provide extensive military and security aid but not lethal weapons because key allies, U.S. officials, and many at the Pentagon were concerned that providing Javelins to Ukraine would escalate the conflict with Russia. The Obama administration rejected a request from President Poroshenko for lethal aid in 2014 but approved a $53 million aid package that included vehicles, patrol boats, body armor, night-vision goggles, and humanitarian assistance. The United States also provided drones. In fact, between 2014 and 2016, the United States committed more than $600 million in security assistance to Ukraine.

Every time you lie for Trump, the only thing you're proving is that you're a damn liar... and a Trump gullible rube and sucker, of course.

He answered that he did not want a "quid pro quo" because in order to prove the act of bribery in a court of law, it requires a "quid pro quo"... meaning something for something, and claiming there is none would be an affirmative defense to the criminal act of bribery.

Which is what makes the Republicans argument of “First it was quid pro quo, now it’s bribery...Democrats keep changing their minds,” such a joke! “Quid pro quo” is not a criminal charge, it’s an element of a crime.

http://www.chrisweigant.com/2019/11/20/two-plus-two-equals-four/

Enjoy, if the debate gets boring or anything...

-CW

They both claim that Sondland asks, “What do you want from Ukraine?”...not “Do you want a quid pro quo from Ukraine?” Why else would Trump answer that — out of the million possible things that he might want — he did NOT want quid pro quo!

He answered that he did not want a "quid pro quo" because in order to prove the act of bribery in a court of law, it requires a "quid pro quo"... meaning something for something, and claiming there is none would be an affirmative defense to the criminal act of bribery. It's also evidence of Trump's consciousness of guilt that he would answer such a question with using a phrase containing a legal term that would constitute an affirmative defense to the crime of bribery.

Bribery

Definition

Corrupt solicitation, acceptance, or transfer of value in exchange for official action.

Overview

Bribery refers to the offering, giving, soliciting, or receiving of any item of value as a means of influencing the actions of an individual holding a public or legal duty. This type of action results in matters that should be handled objectively being handled in a manner best suiting the private interests of the decision maker. Bribery constitutes a crime and both the offeror and the recipient can be criminally charged.

Proof of bribery requires demonstrating a “quid pro quo” relationship in which the recipient directly alters behavior in exchange for the gift.
...
Violators may be prosecuted under federal statute 18 U.S.C. 201 - Bribery.

https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/bribery

Trump and his administration got caught in bribery and the coverup of bribery and then immediately took steps to release the withheld funds, which is further evidence of consciousness of guilt, and Trump has already admitted on the White House lawn on televisions broadcast nationwide that he wanted Ukraine to do a major investigation of the Bidens and also said that he wanted China to do likewise.

If either of the Bidens from 2016 or before had committed any crimes, nothing has stopped the Federal Bureau of Investigation from spending the last couple years investigating them both. What the GOP dipshits want the American people to believe is that Donald Trump all of a sudden in 2019 decided to fight said corruption from years earlier and therefore required an investigation into the Bidens and needed Rudy Giuliani and the mobster twins to go to Ukraine and shakedown the President of Ukraine in order to effect an investigation. *laughs*

Yes! :)

Great minds think alike!

Funny how ya'all didn't care about that..

Funny that you are so obsessed with Obama that you have to compare everything that Trump does to something you claim Obama did. You’d think that Trump’s accomplishments would be impressive enough on their own without needing a comparison....but they aren’t!

Funnier that you think that Obama did this to spite Bush — like Bush expected or even hoped that Obama would allow his ambassadors to stay in their positions! Every ambassador was told their jobs ended the day Obama took office, which wasn’t unexpected, but guess what... Obama appointed some of those same people back into their ambassador positions once he was in office.

Also, Trump had chosen to keep Ambassador Marie Yovanovitch as Ukraine’s ambassador for two years. This wasn’t Trump changing up ambassadors when he first took office, this is him getting rid of his own pick for ambassador because she would get in the way of his attempts to corrupt our 2020 elections. It’s strange that Trump would appoint someone he thought was so horrible to such an important position and leave them there as long as he did with her.

Odumbo fired EVERY US ambassador when he was election, just to spite President Bush..

George W. Bush appointed Yovanovich as ambassador to Kyrgyzstan and also appointed her as ambassador to Armenia. Why would Barack Obama name Yovanovich as ambassador to Ukraine in 2016 if his aim was to spite President Bush?

You're demonstrably ignorant and gullible, you have a remarkable inability to connect dots, and you believe whatever bullshit you read and then spew it back here, and that makes you a useful idiot of the highest order.

Also: All the deflection in the world doesn't change the fact that Trump used his personal lawyer and two mobbed up associates of mobster Dmytro Firtash and withheld taxpayers' money in order to bribe a foreign nation to announce an investigation into his political opponent.

And we haven't even gotten to the part about the graft yet. :)

It negates a person's vote....

If you voted, you weren't disenfranchised. Nothing negates the fact that you cast your vote.

I understand why you have the position you do.. :D

You obviously understand precious little. Let me put it in terms your one brain cell can understand:

Voting is like taking a piss: Nothing negates that piddling around nor puts that toxic waste back from whence it came.

“And it was a very short, abrupt conversation,” Sondland continued. “He was not in a good mood. And he just said, ‘I want nothing. I want nothing. I want no quid pro quo. Tell Zelensky’ ” — that is, Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky — " ‘to do the right thing.’ Something to that effect.”

From Trump’s comments to the press following Sondland’s testimony:

Just a quick comment on what’s going on in terms of testimony with Ambassador Sondland,” Trump said. “And I just noticed one thing, and I would say: That means it’s all over.”

“ ‘I want nothing. That’s what I want from Ukraine.’ That’s what I said. ‘I want nothing.’ I said it twice. So he goes, he asked me the question, ‘What do you want? I keep hearing all these things. What do you want?' He finally gets me,” Trump continued.

If you ask a child what they want for their birthday gift and they answer, “I want nothing. I want nothing. I definitely don’t want a new dirt bike,” we ALL know what the child wants.

They both claim that Sondland asks, “What do you want from Ukraine?”...not “Do you want a quid pro quo from Ukraine?” Why else would Trump answer that — out of the million possible things that he might want — he did NOT want quid pro quo!

The funniest thing is that Trump is claiming that THIS proves that his saying that he wanted nothing on this call CANCELS out the actual phone call where Trump says that he DOES want something from Zelensky! I’m sure John Wilkes Booth tried the “I told my agent that there was no way I wanted to shoot Lincoln in the head,” defense, too.

One major tell that Trump is lying...”To which I turned off the television.” This is Trump trying to sound like he was taking Sondland’s call seriously, but ain’t no one buying that cow!

So, when Victoria said that I was ignorant regarding CW's bias, she was full of shit.

You're full of shit all the way up to your eyeballs because I never said you were ignorant regarding CW's bias.

I said your "ignorance is bone deep" when you described CW's bias as palatable, and I asked if your ignorance could be any more bone deep when you asked CW the question: "Could your bigotry and bias be any more palatable???"

I stand by my statement about your demonstrable ignorance. The fact that you think my statement regarding your repeated demonstrable ignorance has anything whatsoever to do with whether or not CW is or is not biased is additional proof of your demonstrable ignorance.

The fact that you're too ignorant to understand that my comments regarding your repeated ignorance have nothing whatsoever to do with whether or not CW is biased is further proof of your ignorance regarding same... so thank you so much for the assist.

You're quite obviously too stupid to know how ignorant you sound.

palatable? a more genteel way of saying, "yummy"

Geppetto Checkmark

How about former Ukraine ambassador Marie Yovanovitch’s testimony? We learned that Trump fired her without explanation (which as president he had every right to do) and besmirched her reputation. Yes, Trump treated her horribly, but being a jerk is not an impeachable offense.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/opinion/opinions-the-democrats-impeachment-bombshells-arent-exploding/ar-BBX0O58

Awwww Poor Yanovich.. She got fired..

Odumbo fired EVERY US ambassador when he was election, just to spite President Bush..

Funny how ya'all didn't care about that..

Just like ya'all didn't care when Odumbo left Ukraine defenseless so as not to upset his BFF, Putin.. The guy Odumbo promised to be "flexible" for...

Dumbocrats are LOSING this faux impeachment coup..

THAT's what happens when Dumbocrats use a Focus Group to determine the strategy...

It ONLY plays well with the base.. The ones who already hate President Trump and America...

DUH!!!

i thought wapo fact check gives true statements the geppetto check mark

Oh, I see you're looking for the astonishingly rare Geppetto Checkmark which means that a statement contains the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. We reserve this for claims that are unexpectedly true so it is not awarded very often. We regret to inform you that this statement falls just short of being bestowed that unparalleled honor for the reasons highlighted in bold.

duh. And you know what? I've got it on good authority that they're biased to the Left. OMG! ~ Balthasar

Although we find the gentleman's words to be a statement of truth, WaPoop isn't quite ready to confirm the existence of God by granting it the status of "whole truth" and "nothing but the truth."

An example of a statement that would earn our coveted award is as follows:

furthermore, anyone who wants to participate in pie need only visit their local grocer's bakery section. and then possibly a polling booth, but mostly the bakery. ~ nypoet22

http://www.chrisweigant.com/2018/10/23/two-weeks-to-go/#comment-129663

Geppetto Checkmark

Pie is the very definition of the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth... so help us God! :)

Once again, Dumbocrats are getting their asses handed to them by the FACTS and REALITY..

This is ya'all's Russia Collusion delusion all over again!!

BBBBBBWWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Have you ever noticed how everything you discuss swings the Democrats way???

To hear you tell it, Democrats are as pure as the driving snow and can do no wrong..

Funny how that ALWAYS is the case..

100% Democrats are good and pure and Republicans are evil incarnate...

What are the odds that would be reality?? :D

duh. And you know what? I've got it on good authority that they're biased to the Left. OMG!

Exactly..

So, when Victoria said that I was ignorant regarding CW's bias, she was full of shit.

Thank you for proving my point for me..

It negates a person's vote....

I understand why you have the position you do.. :D

i thought wapo fact check gives true statements the geppetto check mark

JL.

duh. And you know what? I've got it on good authority that they're biased to the Left. OMG!

FACT CHECK: True

Chris grew up in the Washington, D.C. suburbs, and has always been interested in politics. His own politics are a mix, and probably could be described as "left libertarian." On some issues, Chris agrees with the mainstream, and on some he's to the left of Bernie Sanders. It all depends on the issue, and on the arguments raised by all sides.

http://www.chrisweigant.com/about-chris/

Washington Post rates it ZERO Pinocchios. ;)

duh. And you know what? I've got it on good authority that they're biased to the Left. OMG!

disenfranchisement is when someone who has the right to vote is denied that right. impeachment is when a president is accused of committing a crime while in office. these are two completely different and unrelated events.

Exactly!

Now do palatable. :)

Mike wants "facts to support" my opinion that his ignorance is bone deep when he supplies that near daily!? *laughs*

The bias is palatable... ~ Mike

Mike's ignorance is bone deep.

Could your bigotry and bias be any more palatable??? ~ Mike

Could Mike's ignorance be any more palatable, and might some cheese to go with that incessant whine of his make it more so? Or chocolate... pie!

The FACT is, CW's commentaries ARE biased and I am sure that even HE would concede as much..

I made no opinion whatsoever regarding whether or not CW's opinion you quoted in your comment was biased. I simply pointed out your repeated demonstrable ignorance.

even if a hypothetical president were unfairly removed from office, that would have zero bearing on the denial of anyone's vote. people might be upset and feel like their voice and vote were being disrespected, but objectively that's not remotely the same as it being taken away.

Where were are your crocodile hysterical tears when Odumbo was refusing ALL military aid to Ukraine??

You're either misinformed or lying. The Obama administration didn't refuse ALL military aid to Ukraine. The United States during the administration of President Obama did provide extensive military and security aid but not lethal weapons because key allies, U.S. officials, and the Pentagon were concerned that providing Javelins to Ukraine would escalate the conflict with Russia. The Obama administration did reject a request from President Poroshenko for lethal aid in 2014 but approved a $53 million aid package that included vehicles, patrol boats, body armor, night-vision goggles, and humanitarian assistance. Between 2014 and 2016, the United States committed more than $600 million in security assistance to Ukraine.

Today the first 10 armored Humvees for Ukraine arrived from the United States! In a ceremony at Boryspil Airport with U.S. Chargé d’Affaires Bruce Donahue, President Poroshenko thanked the United States for its ongoing assistance and promised that Ukrainian soldiers would make good use of the vehicles. In the next week, two more shipments of armored Humvees from the United States, for a total of 30, will arrive in Ukraine. The United States has committed more than $120 million in security assistance for Ukraine to date, and has additionally promised 230 Humvees in total, as well as $75 million worth of equipment including UAVs, counter-mortar radars, night vision devices, and medical supplies.

https://ua.usembassy.gov/first-u-s-armored-hmmwvs-arrive-ukraine-greeted-president-poroshenko/

Hence, ya'all don't really give a shit about Ukraine.. You just want another blunt object to beat President Trump over the head with.

Hence, you're either lying or an inveterate gullible rube quite content to spew back the propaganda being spoon-fed to you like a toddler by the outright fabricating right-wingnut dipshits who some of them are on record voting to approve this aid because they're members of Congress. Many of the same people who approved $600 million dollars of aid to Ukraine during the Obama administration now stand before the cameras and repeatedly lie to their minions and morons that Obama sent no military aid. Those members of Congress aren't stupid, they obviously know they voted multiple times to send military aid to Ukraine during the Obama administration... so they obviously believe their base of supporters are either liars and/or useful idiots who will repeat the lies they're telling.

Yer blatant Party slavery and hypocrisy is nauseating..

Your projection is "palatable," your ignorance penetrates all the way down to the bone, and you're Hair Dick Tater's gullible sucker... in more ways than one.

Facts to support??

No?? None??

Yea.. That's par for the course with you haters and bigots... :D

The FACT is, CW's commentaries ARE biased and I am sure that even HE would concede as much..

Could his ignorance be any more bone deep?

The bias is palatable...

Your ignorance is bone deep. *laughs*

And remind the few...
When ill of us they speak...
That we are all that stands between...
The monsters and the weak...

https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/13839e8d10b9303c8d9aee50576e15b15f4844be91d15073a21097a85b780c50.jpg

Impeachment surprise: How Adam Schiff validated my reporting on Ukraine

All three of these points have since been validated by the sworn testimony of Schiff’s witnesses this month, starting with the Bidens.
https://johnsolomonreports.com/impeachment-surprise-how-adam-schiff-validated-my-reporting-on-ukraine/

Schiff-head has totally destroyed Biden's campaign... :D

Thus, removing Trump would benefit Russia, proving that, for Dems, Ukraine’s security is just another pawn in their war against the president.

One of the MANY facts ya'all ignore??

Even if EVERYTHING ya'all fact-lessly claim about President Trump is all dead on ballz accurate, one point rises above all else..

President Trump has been the better friend to Ukraine than Odumbo ever was...

Ya'all whine and cry about the threat to Ukraine..

Where were are your crocodile hysterical tears when Odumbo was refusing ALL military aid to Ukraine??

No where to be found.

Hence, ya'all don't really give a shit about Ukraine.. You just want another blunt object to beat President Trump over the head with.

Yer blatant Party slavery and hypocrisy is nauseating..

The doubts took a leap when Vindman conceded that lawyers said it was legal for Trump to temporarily withhold more than $400 million in aid to Ukraine.

Even the traitor vindomin conceded that what President Trump did was perfectly legal...

Democrats got totally destroyed yesterday...

The letter seemed strange enough when it became public Monday, but Tuesday’s hearing more than justified her fear and desperation. With her party now having failed to hit anything close to pay dirt after three long days of public testimony, she is trying to keep her members on board the impeachment train, lest the whole effort crash in failure and disgrace.
https://nypost.com/2019/11/19/goodwin-why-dems-are-so-worried-after-latest-round-of-impeachment-hearings/

As I said.. If Democrats have another sad showing as they did yesterday, it's doubtful that this faux impeachment coup will survive the week..

Another reason to miss the old Weigantia...

Yep.. Vindemen is a traitor...

No different than Bradley Manning...

One has to wonder if Vindimen will start to transition to being a woman to garner public sympathy...

Arizona GOP Rep. Paul Gosar offered a blunt assessment of Vindman's testimony, tweeting: "I think people need a reminder: the democrats said they would impeach starting in December 2016–before @realDonaldTrump was even sworn in. This is a hearing looking for a reason. It’s corrupt and immoral. The dude in the uniform is a seditionist."

The traitor Vindimen gets caught in a lie and ya'all give him a pass, SOLELY because he is saying what you want to hear..

Could your bigotry and bias be any more palatable???

The dood in uniform is a traitor..

It's THAT simple..

Another perfect example of HHPTDS....

Your hatred consumes what's left of your intelligence, Stig...

Never in all that time.. and I mean **NEVER**...

Never in all that time would I have EVER believed that Weigantians would be on board with a FOCUS GROUP'ed faux impeachment coup..

****NEVER****

The ravages of HHPTDS sure are taking their toll on the integrity and intelligence of once intelligent people..

"Kind of hard to prove a corrupt quid pro quo theory when the key U.S. policy people, plus the Ukrainians, were never aware of such an arrangement," Texas GOP Rep. Dan Crenshaw added late Tuesday, noting that Ukraine's president has said he felt no pressure from Trump to open any probes. "Can we go back to governing now, that’d be great thanks."
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/ex-ukraine-envoy-nsc-official-testify-in-second-round-of-impeachment-testimony

Democrats were DECIMATED yesterday..

It's likely that Democrats will cave and close down this faux impeachment coup this week...

NONE of the witnesses, even the DEMOCRAT chosen witnesses, has said any bribery occurred..

Democrats only arrived at the "bribery" conclusion because their Focus Groups told them it was the one word that generated the most hatred against President Trump...

Can you imagine if our jurisprudence was all based on Focus Groups!??

"OK, people.. I am going to give you a list of words.. Whichever word you choose as the most serious and heinous, THAT is what we will charge the suspect with.."

That's how Democrats roll...

It's MIND-BOGGLING in it's stupidity and craven partisanship..

I mean, it's as if Democrats are **TRYING** to de-legitimize their own faux impeachment coup...

This also proves a larger point Democrats have been making all along, because this is precisely why the first round of hearings was held behind closed doors. When witnesses have no idea what others are saying, they don't know when they'll be contradicted. As Volker just showed, sometimes this leads to "Oh, my, I just remembered!" moments, later on. This will be even more apparent in tomorrow's hearing, because Ambassador Gordon Sondland is going to have to revise a whole bunch of things he said -- or "misremembered."

The bias is palatable...

Dem witnesses are pure as the driven snow..

GOP witnesses are liars incarnate..

Of course, there are no FACTS to support the claims..

Weigantia of old would be APPALLED and EMBARRASSED at the Weigantia of HHPTDS....

It's amazing..

Over 35,000 pages of testimony and NOT A SINGLE WITNESS has said "Bribery" except once. As it pertained to VP Joe Biden..

Looks like the new Focus Group'ed marketed term is dying an ignoble death...

Wonder what term Democrat Focus Groups will hit on next..

This is just like the Global Warming con..

First, Dumbocrats try to Focus Group and Market science..

Now they are trying to Focus Group and Market impeachment..

One has to wonder if Democrats Focus Group whether or not to take a dump..

Because Democrats sure are shitting on this country and the Constitution...

If the FACTS are on your side, you don't NEED a Focus Group..

That's the point..

So, apparently, Democrats don't believe that the facts are on their side..

Ergo, they need Focus Groups..

It's utterly ridiculous to run an impeachment by Focus Groups and Marketing...

Which, I am sure EVERYONE here would agree with.. If it were Republicans doing it...

disenfranchising? hardly.

Of course not.. It's only disenfranchising when it's DEMOCRATS who are allegedly disenfranchised. It's not disenfranchising when it's ONLY Trump supporters.. it's not as if they mean anything, right??

not that it's at all likely, but if by some chance donald were removed from office for bribery and other crimes, it's not as if hillary clinton or nancy pelosi would then take over as chief executive.

And yet, many on this very forum has put forth that EXACT scenario...

So.. Tell me again how it's NOT disenfranchising??

Gotcha.. :D

How do you feel about Democrats running this impeachment by Focus Group instead of the FACTS???

Pretty low, even for Democrats, eh? :smirk: :D

Republicans don't support traitors.. Even when they are in uniform. Remember Berghdal??

Also early on, a Democrat pointed out what Trump had tweeted about Vindman last week, which included the smear that he was a "Never Trumper." When asked directly if he was a Never-Trumper, Vindman responded: "I'm a never-partisan," which I thought was the best answer of the day.

Except the facts clearly show that Vindeman is a NeverTrumper..

When he had concerns, he went whining and squealing to fellow Trump/America haters with his complaint..

Right off the bat, he ignored the proper chain of command..

That proves he is a Trump/America hater..

I can understand why you are feeling frazzled. I get bleary eyes by the end of the morning sessions - and I don't take notes or write a column for the next day...I just go to the gym to get my blood circulating again.

I have no idea what I'm going to do tomorrow. It all depends on how much energy I've got versus how much sleep I've gotten.

I may post once, twice, or not at all. I might post after Sondland's morning testimony, but I may not have time. I may post after both rounds of testimony, and I may even go late into the night and post my snap debate reactions.

It's going to be a busy day, and I can't promise anything other than that I'll try my best to get something up here -- but it quite likely won't appear at the regular time. Just to warn everyone in advance...

-CW