Gaslighting the previously lit...Morons.

LL&P

I get folks like our resident Trump apologist, there's no mystery there, douchebaggery notwithstanding. Alternate facts and goal-post shifting might work on some, but to me it's transparently obvious that it's barrel scraping in lieu of any practical defense of what amounts to the indefensible. As part of the collective experience, I laugh along...this isn't so much the Trump era as it is extended cabaret.

LL&P

"Codswallop". Heh-heh.+1!

Kick...we'll get nowhere if you hold back like this. Tell us how you really feel.

I was thinking the same thing about you, JTC. ;)

You should know that your posts aren't remotely "boring," JTC, and are simply miles above the asshat's education level. He labels and dismisses because he's ignorant ordure... nothing more than a "wannabe" POS. Did you catch his post wherein he attempted to "borrow" one of your favored terms and flailed miserably in the attempt? Quite right. Side-splitting comedy.

Please keep posting and ignore his repetitive benighted codswallop; it's limited in scope like his ratiocination. Seriously. :)

Kick...we'll get nowhere if you hold back like this. Tell us how you really feel.

:D

77&?

As an aside to CRS...

Congrats.. You maneuvered Veronica into making a Pro-Gun argument.. :D

My family invented a line of firearms, Michael Moron, you destitute dumb uneducated asshat goober in your doublewide trailer in Shithole, Florida.

Congratulations for proving yet again how facts don't really matter to you the least little bit, and you just basically make stuff up about people and believe your own invented bullshit. :)

LL&P

According to hysterical Anti-Gun nuts.. YES...

As an aside to CRS...

Congrats.. You maneuvered Veronica into making a Pro-Gun argument.. :D

Kudos.. :D

Speaking as a guy born and raised in the Rocky Mtns, where hunting and all shooting sports were a way of life, who owned 21 firearms in his younger days, loaded his own ammo and was knowledgeable of all aspects of ballistic science, no, I cannot think of such a reason.

Likely due to the fact that you're thinking "backward" rather than forward.

Obviously such a firearm/bullet combo would only be useful for killing people, and it wouldn't even do a workman-like job of that!

Wrong again. Obviously, anything "useful for killing people" (your terms) would also kill other animals so your statement "would only be useful" is wrong for multiple reasons. Is killing things the only thing you do with a weapon, Stucki?

So help us out?

No. :)

Speaking as a guy born and raised in the Rocky Mtns, where hunting and all shooting sports were a way of life, who owned 21 firearms in his younger days, loaded his own ammo and was knowledgeable of all aspects of ballistic science, no, I cannot think of such a reason.

Obviously such a firearm/bullet combo would only be useful for killing people, and it wouldn't even do a workman-like job of that! So help us out?

OK, you seem to be describing a firearm (handgun) engineered to accept a cartridge with a steel case sufficiently long to essentially function as a very short barrel. Basically, a steel gun with a plastic handle, firing relatively impotent bullets.

No, it's not a steel gun; it's a 3D printed plastic gun that fires ammunition designed specifically for it. It's also not exactly like the one in the article I posted; I simply posted that in order to give you an idea what I was talking about. The bullets are far from impotent.

Doesn't that essentially defeat the whole purpose of the idea of a plastic gun, that presumably being reduced detectability?

Oh, come on, Stucki and LB. Can't either of you think of a reason one might want to perfect a bullet like that besides reduced detectability? I can think of several, but then I am me. :)

NeverTrumpers.. :^/

Remind me again of the respect and tolerance of the Left Wingery??

I seem to have forgotten what with all the FACTS to the contrary...

#290... Another example of ideological slavery..

Boring..

Oh SNAP!!!! That's just GOTTA hurt!! :D

Maybe, instead of adding to the devaluation of the word, 'facts'...why not just call it what it is, an article in support of your views.

*A quick reminder of definition of 'fact'... a thing that is indisputably the case.
"the most commonly known fact about hedgehogs is that they have fleas"
synonyms: reality, actuality, certainty; More
truth, verity, gospel
"it is a fact that the water is polluted"
antonyms: lie, fiction
used in discussing the significance of something that is the case.
noun: the fact that
"the real problem facing them is the fact that their funds are being cut"
a piece of information used as evidence or as part of a report or news article.
synonyms: detail, piece of information, particular, item, specific, element, point, factor, feature, characteristic, ingredient, circumstance, aspect, facet; information
"every fact was double-checked"
Law
the truth about events as opposed to interpretation.
"there was a question of fact as to whether they had received the letter"

LL&P

..... and a partridge in a pear tree....

:D

Since I know how much ya'all love polls.. :D

I was going to make exactly that point late last night, but I was too tired. The only thing I would have said differently was that what I read described the cartridge as essentially a miniature, one-inch barrel cannon.

Smooth barrel, very slow muzzle velocity, and, moreover, x-ray visible, metal detectable, and easy for sniffers to detect. With a plastic holder.

"Eh.. I've had better.."
-Jim Carrey, LIAR, LIAR

:D

But don't forget, she's a VERY PRETTY "hateful intolerant bigoted characture".

OK, you seem to be describing a firearm (handgun) engineered to accept a cartridge with a steel case sufficiently long to essentially function as a very short barrel. Basically, a steel gun with a plastic handle, firing relatively impotent bullets.

Doesn't that essentially defeat the whole purpose of the idea of a plastic gun, that presumably being reduced detectability?

Oh pullleeessee.. If President Trump has two scoops of ice cream, ya'all hysterical morons "take to the streets"..

If President Trump uses a nonsensical word, ya'all hysterical morons "take to the streets"..

Morons like Milano are nothing but a hateful intolerant bigoted caricature....

http://thefederalist.com/2018/08/01/lets-debunk-misleading-panic-3-d-guns/

Look at the FACTS...

Yes, you can.. You have been able to do that for a decade or more...

Has there been an epidemic of shootings with 3D printed components??

No there has not..

This latest hysteria is just another way that anti-gun fanatics want to get their toe in the door that leads to a gun ban...

And, what is so hilarious is this latest hysterical anti-gun shiny is not even a 2nd Amendment issue..

It's a 1st Amendment issue..

Just goes to what I have always said.. In order to ban guns, anti-gun nuts will have to eliminate the 2nd Amendment and eviscerate they 1st, the 4th and several other Constitutional rights..

The real problem I think is all the other parts of the gun. The AR-15 is more of a specification than a single product. Many companies make various parts for it. With 3D printing, you can buy the hard to make parts, the barrel, breach, and anything else that is subject to high heat and pressure, then print the easy stuff. Like fully auto or burst mode mods. Or large magazines. Stuff that is illegal in many jurisdictions.

Two points - 1),modern gunpowder does NOT "explode", it burns,

Who said anything about smokeless powder? What part of the term "gunpowder" is confusing at all for you, Stucki? I'm talking about "gunpowder." Yes, it is a low-level explosive.

and 2), if you seat the bullet an inch deep into the cartridge case, there would (in the case of handgun ammo), not leave nearly sufficient space for the powder.

You couldn't be more wrong, Stucki. I know several guys who've been making these for years manually; they know their stuff. I'll see if I can find a link for you. Be right back.

Okay, not anyone I know in this article but some of the same basics they use:

https://www.wired.com/2014/11/atlas-314-3-d-printed-guns-bullets/

But far more important, matters not in the slightest what the cartridge case is made of - the instant the bullet exits the case mouth, the full pressure of the burning propellant is transferred to the gun barrel.

No, sir, it absolutely is NOT... and the roof of the chamber is left open. See the link I found you. Go back to basics, Stucki. Duh. :)

LL&P

No, actually wrong.

Two points - 1),modern gunpowder does NOT "explode", it burns, and 2), if you seat the bullet an inch deep into the cartridge case, there would (in the case of handgun ammo), not leave nearly sufficient space for the powder.

But far more important, matters not in the slightest what the cartridge case is made of - the instant the bullet exits the case mouth, the full pressure of the burning propellant is transferred to the gun barrel.

I am not at all knowledgeable about about 3-D printer technology, but I can pretty much assure you that plastic guns, regardlwss of how manufactured, would pretty much be limited to firing .22 cal Rimfire ammo. Larger calibers would generate more pressure than the plastic could bear without exploding.

You had me until you added: "regardlwss of how manufactured." Oops.

What do you think about larger caliber shells not made of the typical brass but rather made of steel with the lead an inch deep inside? A shell like that could contain the explosion of the round's gunpowder rather than transferring that force to the plastic barrel of the gun... steel ammunition could essentially act as the barrel of the weapon, right?

Simple science, which I understand is not so simple for so many. ;)

The "community" didn't care about FACTS... They just wanted their pound of flesh, facts be damned..

Answer: You can't

Apply this logic to the "community" that is the Trump cult where the herd of gullible bleating sheeple spew out their talking points on cue, play incessant semantic games regarding "collusion" a.k.a. "conspiracy," and etcetera ad nauseam "facts be damned."

Perhaps you'll figure something out if you do. :)

Very well said, sir. :)

I grew up with waxed paper straws and the world didn't come to an end.

I still use those. :)

The belief that cops turn a blind eye to the illegal actions of other officers is mind numbing to me! Illegal activities are best done out of public view, and the police know this better than anyone. While they may hear rumor of someone acting improperly, unless they witness it firsthand there isn’t anything that can be done! If they believe a co-worker is using more physical force than is necessary on a suspect, they may pull them off of the suspect, but they have no authority to arrest the officer simply because they think it might be excessive. That is determined by an investigation, not by the officer on the spot.

The “bad apples” make life for the rest of the police extremely hard! So why would they knowingly protect someone like that? If you witnessed a co-worker do something criminal at your job, would you risk going to prison and losing your career by covering for them? Who would risk doing that, especially if the crime doesn’t benefit you, personally in any way?!? Are you going to risk everything for some person you might barely know or like? So why would a police officer?

That said, the police do “protect” other officers who are involved in shootings because they know no one else does. (By “protect”, I mean they do not bash them in the press, which many people seem to believe they should do.). The media rarely waits until all the evidence is known before deciding to portray an officer as the guilty party in a shooting. Even if the officer is later found to be in the wrong, the police aren’t going to trash them publicly. Good people with great intentions still make mistakes that have horrible results. It doesn’t make them horrible people. It just means they have to be held accountable for their actions.

Technology advances. What is beyond the abilities of today's 3D printers is likely to be standard capabilities in a few years.

Also, the price of technology drops with time. The computing power in my Apple Watch would have cost millions 30 years ago.

America will lead the stupidity when it comes to 3D printed guns - but the real challenges will be faces by countries that currently have sensible gun control systems in place.

You do realize that these guns being printed are pretty much made to be single shot and disposable. Their accuracy will be questionable at any distance. In fact, it is because triggering the bullet will likely cause the gun to explode in the user’s hands that the government opposes making them available to the public. You are right that firearms must be able to handle the high temperatures associated with firing a bullet. Except for the largest commercial 3D printers, no other 3D printer should be expected to create a product that is safe to use.

Correct.

No officer goes into work hoping to get to shoot someone that day!

Hmm.

One of my classmates from high school joined the police, and thankfully the Glasgow Police so he didn't get a gun. He was a psychopath who wanted to hurt people but you had to get to know him before you got past his mundane exterior.

Let's face it, if you are a psychopath then being a nurse or a police officer are two jobs that give you ample scope to hide violence more easily than say a plumber or a lawyer.

This is why the police need to police themselves effectively - the whole omerta nonsense hurts the 99% of good cops from lack of public trust.

Many of my friends who are lawyers and who are very rich, old, and white don't trust any cop at all. These are people who can browbeat any cop fairly easily in a normal situation, so have nothing to fear, but teach their (wealthy, white) kids how to act around the police to avoid arbitrary violence and harassment.

They also shot Rice almost immediately upon encountering him, rather than take the extra two or three seconds that they needed to ascertain that Rice was actually carrying a toy. The cop involved in that incident had already been transferred from another department because he was to quick to shoot.

The gun had been altered so that unless you viewed it up close, it would be difficult to distinguish it from a real firearm. There are federal laws in place because of the danger these guns pose for causing people to believe they are real. The deaths of multiple children is why we require toy makers alter their guns to make them look less real. The toy makers put a bright orange muzzle on their toys, but black paint hides the orange warning fairly well!

Rice’s actions also played a part in his death. Rice was pointing the toy at the head’s of strangers walking in the part, laughing at how scared they looked. He had to know that they believed it was a real gun, because who is scared by a Nerf gun? The officers reacted properly given the threat Rice appeared to pose for those nearby. And don’t be fooled by the media’s use of Tamir Rice’s image from when he was 8. Rice was 5’6 and weighed 195lbs. He was a big kid for his age. It is tragic that he died so young.

I got the worst whooping of my young childhood when I pointed a toy gun at a police officer. My dad made it very clear to me just how dangerous it was to ever point ANY gun (real, toy, or even my “finger gun”) at a person who might believe I am pointing a real gun at them and then they have to shoot me in self-defense.

But the belief that there is an epidemic of police violence is simply untrue.

Compared to what? No other 1st world country has this problem.

Well, when you consider that the police respond to literally millions of calls for service every week in this country without incident, you start to recognize how rare officer involved shootings are.

No other 1st world country has citizens armed to the teeth the way they are in the U.S.. No officer goes into work hoping to get to shoot someone that day!

The majority of the time, shootings occur because the officer believes it is necessary to preserve life. They have to make split-second decisions based on the info they have at that time.

To say “they should have waited a few more seconds” is the same as saying “they should have ignored the obvious warning signs”. We blame the police for not doing anything about the high school shooter in Florida even though he showed signs that one day he MIGHT be a threat, but we fault them when they act when a person has demonstrated that they are an immediate threat!

And Michale pointed out that more whites are shot by police than blacks, even though at a disproportionate rate. There are more whites in prison than blacks, but again at disproportionate rates for the overall population. Yes, there are some people who get wrongly convicted for crimes they do not commit, and while everything should be done to prevent this, they make up an incredibly low percentage of those in prison. And yes, it is ludicrous that possession of crack would have a stiffer penalty than possession of pure cocaine of the same weight, but that is not the police’s fault — they just enforce the laws as they are written.

Q2 2018: 4.1%

Q3 2014: 5.2%
Q2 2014: 4.6%
Q4 2011: 4.6%

Abra-ca-bitchslap-dabra!

Metal X 3D Printer Brings Metal to the Workshop for Under $100K

Yea, just another hysterical shiny for the Anti-gun nuts.. Like all their hysterical shinies, very little logic or facts and an excessive amount of hysterical whining and teeth gnashing...

Metal X 3D Printer Brings Metal to the Workshop for Under $100K

That story mentions that when the printed results are placed in the sintering oven (not included in printer price) to melt the plastic fibers in the metal, "the component shrinks by about 20 percent, as is expected, and what's left is a nearly fully dense metal part."

Guns need exceedingly exact machining. This is particularly true for any automatic cartridge chambering/ejection weapon. Words like "about" don't work for gun component sizing. So, even before we start on the mechanical components, the barrel better be 0.224 for an AR-15, not about that diameter. That means a metal lathe -with a long bed- is going to be needed. And while we're buying 5-figure metal working machines, we may as well order our vertical and horizontal milling machines, too, because they're going to be needed as well. Oh yeah, and a sintering oven, whatever that is.

Sure, one could job out the sintering (?), barrel bore and groove work, triggering and chambering machining, and all the other little exactly sized moving parts that make a weapon actually fire.

Then, here's what really makes this whole thing techno-fiction nonsense. Gun barrels need specialized, flaw-free steel. They get really, really hot, particularly in automatic fire.

They also have to withstand very high pressures. We had guns in the house when I grew up, and over the fireplace was a 10-gauge double barreled shotgun used by my great-grandfather. The reason it was over the fireplace is because it was made in 1874 and had a damascus steel barrel. Damascus steel was strong enough for the black powder used in shotgun shells in its day. However, a modern high-pressure smokeless shotgun shell would have chambered perfectly, and then, with strong likelihood, turned the chamber's steel into exploding shards of shrapnel with a kill radius of several yards.

The printer's process description above says "what's left is a nearly fully dense metal part." Un-huh.

I mean that totally and completely sincerely..

I can. Besides, everything I've read about that book indicates a relationship to the truth that one could only call "casual".

Hay.. He's YOUR Messiah....

Ocasio-Cortez, unlike some other democrats, doesn't need Obama's endorsement. She'll win handily all on her own.

Most likely..

Personally, I think Dumobcrats should ALL go all in in supporting the Socialist...

Word...

Methinks someone is trying to stir up trouble.

Ocasio-Cortez, unlike some other democrats, doesn't need Obama's endorsement. She'll win handily all on her own.

Of course Stone is pond scum, and a complete bogun. As I said, he put in a decent effort with, 'The Man Who Killed Kennedy,' he did get some interesting snippets from sources I'd previously not encountered, and they checked out as authentic. I read his books a few years back, before all his shenanigans with Assange and monkey-man. So I have to call them as I see them. I can't in good conscience dismiss the sum total of his output because he hangs in a motley crew.

LL&P

Looks like Odumbo doesn't like the Socialist....

"And if we were talking about the Vanity Vote, you would have a point..

But we're not, so you don't..."

AND if I was talking ONLY about the vanity vote, YOU would have a point.

But I and were not, so YOU DON'T.

Trump won by less of an electoral vote margin over Hillary Clinton than either:

Barack Obama over his opponents in BOTH of his elections AND

Bill Clinton over his opponents in BOTH of his elections.

Are you willing to concede that both Bill Clinton and Barack Obama won ALL 4 times by landslides?

You have to in order to claim Trump's victory was a landslide also.

And if we were talking about the Vanity Vote, you would have a point..

But we're not, so you don't...

If it makes it easier to swallow, it's MY OPINION that President Trump won the Electoral count in a landslide..

"But 306 to 232 is NOT a razor thin win..

270-269 is a "razor thin" win..

306 to 232 is a landslide. A shellacking..

PERIOD..."

NOPE, it is NOT. You're still WRONG.

One generally agreed upon measure of a landslide election is when the winning candidate beats his opponent or opponents by at least 15 percentage points in a popular vote count. Under that scenario a landslide would occur when the winning candidate in a two-way election receives 58 percent of the vote, leaving his opponent with 42 percent.

The online political news source Politico has defined a landslide election as being one in which the winning candidate beats his opponent by at least 10 percentage points, for example. And the well-known political blogger Nate Silver, of The New York Times, has defined a landslide district as being one in which a presidential vote margin deviated by at least 20 percentage points from the national result. Political scientists Hill and Kathleen Thompson Hill and say a landslide occurs when a candidate is able to win 60 percent of the popular vote.

One generally agreed upon definition of an Electoral College landslide is a presidential election in which the winning candidate secures at least 375 or 70 percent of the electoral votes.

Trump meets NONE of those definitions of a landslide by ANYONE's OFFICIAL measure.

While Trump surpassed the required 270 electoral votes with room to spare, his margin ranks no better than the bottom quarter of Electoral College showings in American history, and no better than the bottom one-third of the showings since the end of World War II.

If your share of the electoral vote ranks behind Martin Van Buren's, then you did not win in a landslide, which is EXACTLY where Trump is ranked.

This one's for you...

Poll: Biden leads Trump in early 2020 match-up
https://www.politico.com/story/2018/08/01/biden-trump-2020-elections-752979

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2018/07/31/how_trump_has_managed_to_defy_gravity_137665.html

Ya'all have eyes but you do not see...

Answer me that.

It takes two to tango, my friend..

How can LEOs be "positively engaged" with a community that seeks to execute LEOs who have the audacity, the temerity to DO THEIR JOBS when black people commit crimes??

The article that started this comment thread is a perfect example..

The "community" didn't care about FACTS... They just wanted their pound of flesh, facts be damned..

This scenario is played out over and over and over again.

How do you "engage" with a community like that?

Answer: You can't

It's up to the community to change their ways.. Then they would see how LEOs become more engaged in the community..

US GDP hits 4.1%....

"Abra-ca-dabra, biatch"
-President Trump

:D

"I don't think their opinions count for a hill o beans.."

And that opinion right there on the part of some of the public and law enforcement IS THE PROBLEM.

How can law enforcement be effective for the community or safe for the officers if you are not positively engaged with the very community that you are supposed to protect and serve and simply dismiss their opinions as if they don't matter?

Answer me that.

If you think that the Swedes will retain Assange and NOT turn him over to the US, I have some swampland down here in FL I wanna sell you..

The ONLY reason Assange hol'ed up in the Ecuadorian Embassy is because he knew that he would never see the inside of a Swedish court room..

To me, it says that Team Treason had good reason to think that the meeting was going to become public knowledge in short-ish order anyway. So, might as well start the distraction/obfuscation now; so that when a real reliable source confirms it, it will already be old/fake news for the base.

Dammit dood!! You know better than to bring LOGIC and REASON into a conversation about President Trump..

The ONLY thing you can say is hysterical Anti-Trump rantings!!!

Fer shame, dood.. Fer shame....

And if it had NOT been a toy, those extra two or three seconds could have cost them their lives..

Is THAT preferable to you??

Compared to what? No other 1st world country has this problem.

Comparing the US to any other country is a fool's errand...

That's not settled opinion. I've seen programs that suggest that the training itself induces paranoia, and that the trainers themselves are trigger-happy.

Bullshit...

All of these rationales would make far more sense if there were just as many unarmed whites as blacks being mistakenly shot, but there aren't.

Once again, bullshit..

The fact-checking website PolitiFact concluded in August 2014 that police kill more whites than blacks after the claim was made by conservative commentator Michael Medved. PolitiFact cited data from the Centers for Disease Control on fatal injuries by “legal intervention” from 1999 to 2011.

“Over the span of more than a decade, 2,151 whites died by being shot by police compared to 1,130 blacks. In that respect, Medved is correct,” said PolitiFact.

Granted, that doesn't take into account armed or unarmed..

But the ONLY stat that is relevant here is the percentage of shootings that are ruled Good Shoots...

That's the crux of what has our black communities upset, justifiably so.

Are those the same black communities who riot and destroy their own neighborhoods when a black person is justifiably shot by a cop??

I don't think their opinions count for a hill o beans..

Exactly...

Upwards of 98% of all OI shootings are ruled Good Shoots..

No. No that is not JOB #1! Police officers know that they may be called to put their lives in danger for the sake of their community. “To Serve & Protect” might result in their losing their life.

The goal is to make sure everyone goes home alive each night. But that is not their “job.” Trust me, my heart stops anytime I see our police chief’s vehicle driving through the neighborhood while Devon is on duty.

Fair enough. I acknowledge your correction..

Stone is a political hit-man, whose firm (with Manafort) was once the biggest lobbying operation on K street. His political dirty tricks resume includes organizing the 'Brooks Bros riot' of Republican operatives that stopped the vote counting in Florida in 2000, among others. He's high-priced pond scum.

As for his books, the most sympathetic review of the LBJ book, by Hugh Aynesworth for the Washington Times said: "The title pretty much explains the book's theory. If a reader doesn't let facts get in the way, it could be an interesting adventure." Aynesworth, who covered the assassination for the Dallas Morning News, added that the book "is totally full of all kinds of crap".

They also shot Rice almost immediately upon encountering him, rather than take the extra two or three seconds that they needed to ascertain that Rice was actually carrying a toy. The cop involved in that incident had already been transferred from another department because he was to quick to shoot.

But the belief that there is an epidemic of police violence is simply untrue.

Compared to what? No other 1st world country has this problem.

they are extremely well trained on when they are legally justified to use deadly force

That's not settled opinion. I've seen programs that suggest that the training itself induces paranoia, and that the trainers themselves are trigger-happy.

the “use of force” they were permitted to use with those nightsticks would easily be considered “police brutality” by today’s standards.

So we should be shooting people instead? Check your logic.

All of these rationales would make far more sense if there were just as many unarmed whites as blacks being mistakenly shot, but there aren't. That's the crux of what has our black communities upset, justifiably so.

Assange being fed nothing but bread, water and Surströmming for a decade or two does dance nicely in my mind. He's earned it.

LL&P

I had considered that among the plausible explanations, I just don't ascribe that depth of cunning to these clowns. Remember, as far as Trump's 'brain trust' is concerned, they're selling snake-oil to folks that can't read the label. The rest of us, they couldn't care less what we understand. Trump and his gang have long since given up broadening their base, they're on permanent white-wash duty to forestall dissension in the ranks.

Plus, why try to walk it back? I think it's yet another clanger.

LL&P

To me, it says that Team Treason had good reason to think that the meeting was going to become public knowledge in short-ish order anyway. So, might as well start the distraction/obfuscation now; so that when a real reliable source confirms it, it will already be old/fake news for the base.

Lol...'skullduggery-aforethought'

Delicious.

LL&P

I too have an askance eye on Assange. He's got the life expectancy of a gnat unless a western power takes him in. Either way, no more creme brule for him.

I quite like Roger Stone, at least he on the right track with the Kennedy assassination. LBJ obviously had him killed, and Stone goes all the way to connect the dots in his books. Well worth a look-see, Stone's books are brilliantly sourced and great read.

LL&P

We're talking about the shooting of unarmed black men here, of which there have been about a dozen in 2018.

At no time were the cop's involved lives at risk, because these victims weren't armed.

It is not whether the officer’s life was actually at risk, but whether or not it was reasonable for the officer to believe that their life or someone else’s was at risk when they pulled the trigger that the law is concerned with.

The media will report that a person driving a car towards an officer is “unarmed”. Tamir Rice was “unarmed” despite the fact that he was playing with a toy gun that looked just like a real handgun. The people he had pointed the toy gun at did not believe it was a toy. A person in a dark alley who the police tell to “freeze” who thinks they should ignore the command and instead grab their phone out of their pocket to film the whole encounter (resulting in their being shot) will be considered “unarmed”.

I am all for prosecuting police who violate the law and abuse their authority. But the belief that there is an epidemic of police violence is simply untrue. The reason that so few officer involved shootings result in charges being filed against the officer is because they are extremely well trained on when they are legally justified to use deadly force.

In 1824 Robert Peel's 'Peelers', London's first Metropolitan Police Force, reduced a rampant crime rate by 75%, armed with nothing but nightsticks and whistles.

That was enough at the time. Also, the “use of force” they were permitted to use with those nightsticks would easily be considered “police brutality” by today’s standards.

Plastic guns might change that oath.

Keep focus, Trump having a go at the Koch Bros. today is the smokescreen for the plastic gun idiocy...Not only has Trump not augmented a single gun law, he's made sure it's even easier to have a firearm for every nutter. 1.2 million fresh millennial's every year, hating gun violence, and it's GOP defenders, will make the difference in November.

Lol, Manafort...blaming his subordinate for his own actions, aint going to wash. Orville Redenbacher loves this shit.

Honest Abe...According to Trump, he's rocketed past 'The Great Emancipator' in popularity. I know my British/Canadian education is limited, but I'm fairly sure polls didn't exist before the electronic age? Meh...no doubt, it'll blow right by the herd.

LL&P

PERIOD

No. No that is not JOB #1! Police officers know that they may be called to put their lives in danger for the sake of their community. “To Serve & Protect” might result in their losing their life.

The goal is to make sure everyone goes home alive each night. But that is not their “job.” Trust me, my heart stops anytime I see our police chief’s vehicle driving through the neighborhood while Devon is on duty.

I won't bother countering with a list of the myriad times that liberals have supported half-measures, including the assault-rifle ban in the 1990's.

You're on the losing side of the gun argument. Polls show support for gun control approaching 69%. Only the NRA's wealthy backers (including Russia, apparently) have kept tougher laws from being enacted already.

And if YA'ALL are wrong about climate catastrophes (as ya'all have been WRONG time and time again, FAILED PREDICTIONS time and time again) ya'all will have destroyed the global economies and brought about a worldwide depression that makes the 1930s depression look like lollipops and rainbows for nothing...

Two things:

One, the businesses created in the effort to combat climate change have been a huge boost to the economy! The Solar industry now employees far more people and is worth more than the outdated coal industry. You cannot provide any proof that the economy is hurt by those combatting climate change because it is having the opposite effect — something that is obvious to everyone who hasn’t buried their heads in the sand!

Two, we have NOT BEEN WRONG when it comes to the predictions! They predicted the ocean temperatures would rise and they did. They predicted the polar icecaps would melt at accelerated rates and they have. Your prediction that fighting climate change will doom our economy is the only failed prediction being discussed by anyone.

Correction: that was 1829. And by the way they wore top hats while they did it! Peel was adamant that police should look as UN-military as possible, reasoning that the public would be less likely to be helpful if their neighborhoods felt 'occupied'. To that end, he also dressed his 'Bobbies' in blue, to contrast with the red uniforms that the British military wore at the time to send the clearest possible signal: we're not the military.

We're talking about the shooting of unarmed black men here, of which there have been about a dozen in 2018.

At no time were the cop's involved lives at risk, because these victims weren't armed.

In 1824 Robert Peel's 'Peelers', London's first Metropolitan Police Force, reduced a rampant crime rate by 75%, armed with nothing but nightsticks and whistles.

In the mid-1990's Mayor David Dinkins significantly reduced New York's crime rate by adopting the 'broken windows' policy, a highly effective, but non-violent, policing technique.

Number of unarmed suspects shot by the combined police forces of London, Paris, Rome, Berlin and Madrid this year: 0.

Dumbass. Michale, when will you not fall into traps?

Break with tradition, read and follow the links, try to fathom the truth. Your orangutan is on the brink of the endangered list...Run this past your Pastor...according to Monkeyman, collusion is only a crime when the DNC do it.

LL&P

Act II is officially over on Labor Day. I'll speculate the following. Arresting Assange in Britain should come this month. His extradition can proceed over the election break. He can be shown proven Federal charges carrying mandatory sentencing guidelines totaling most or all of the rest of his life in prison.

The SC can be ready for one of the opening scenes of Act III which I will dearly love to see. If Assange cooperates, I further speculate that Stone can at long last be indicted for operating a conspiracy with foreign agents against the interests of the United States. That's a synonym for collusion.

Of course Stone was not in the campaign, sort of, but for me it would be a great way to kick off the final roundup in this rodeo. Disclosure: for reasons going back decades, I do not like Roger Stone.

Yes.. That is PROOF and FACTS of the ranking of the Electoral win..

But 306 to 232 is NOT a razor thin win..

270-269 is a "razor thin" win..

306 to 232 is a landslide. A shellacking..

PERIOD...

THAT is job 1...

PERIOD

"You can add it, but that doesn't make it true. Not even close. It wasn't a landslide.

Of course it's not "true" to you..

But it IS factually accurate.."

NO, It's NOT.

"Trump barely made it because of an electoral college fluke with a razor thin margin

306 to 232 is NOT a "razor thin margin" by ANY stretch of the definition."

Yes it IS.

HERE is both the PROOF and the FACTS:

Trump’s Electoral College Victory Ranks 46th in 58 Elections. Mr. Trump won 30 states, gathering 306 of 538 electoral votes. There have been 45 presidential elections in which the winning candidate won a larger share of the electoral vote.

Rank according to the Percent of electoral vote won:

1.George Washington (1789) 100 percent
George Washington (1792)
3.Franklin D. Roosevelt (1936)
4.James Monroe (1820)
5.Ronald Reagan (1984)
6.Richard Nixon (1972)
7.Thomas Jefferson (1804)
8.Abraham Lincoln (1864)
9.Ronald Reagan (1980)
10.Lyndon B. Johnson (1964)
11.Franklin D. Roosevelt (1932)
12.Dwight Eisenhower (1956)
13.Franklin Pierce (1852)
14.Franklin D. Roosevelt (1940)
15.James Monroe (1816)
16.Herbert Hoover (1928)
17.Dwight Eisenhower (1952)
18.Woodrow Wilson (1912)
19.Franklin D. Roosevelt (1944)
20.Ulysses Grant (1872)
21.William H. Harrison (1840)
22.George Bush (1988)
23.Warren G. Harding (1920)
24.Andrew Jackson (1832)
25.Ulysses Grant (1868)
26.Calvin Coolidge (1924)
27.Theodore Roosevelt (1904)
28.Bill Clinton (1996)
29.James Madison (1808)
30.Bill Clinton (1992)
31.Andrew Jackson (1828)
32.Barack Obama (2008)
33.William Taft (1908)
34.William McKinley (1900)
35.Grover Cleveland (1892)
36.James K. Polk (1844)
37.Barack Obama (2012)
38.William McKinley (1896)
39.Abraham Lincoln (1860)
40.James Madison (1812)
41.James Buchanan (1856)
42.Benjamin Harrison (1888)
43.James Garfield (1880)
44.Martin Van Buren (1836)
45.Harry Truman (1948)

46.Donald J. Trump (2016) 56.9 percent

47.John F. Kennedy (1960)
48.Zachary Taylor (1848)
49.Richard Nixon (1968)
50.Jimmy Carter (1976)
51.Grover Cleveland (1884)
52.George W. Bush (2004)
53.Thomas Jefferson (1800)
54.Woodrow Wilson (1916)
55.John Adams (1796)
56.George W. Bush (2000)
57.Rutherford B. Hayes (1876)
58.John Quincy Adams (1824)*

First off, there AREN'T any pro-law enforcement liberals..

Second of all, liberals believe the ONLY solution is a gun ban...

The epitome of moronic-ness...

And you think THAT is what happens??

It COULDN'T be that the cop legitimately felt his life or the life of others were in danger??

It COULDN'T be that, now could it?

Thank you for proving my point..

It's ALSO funny how ya'all ONLY feel that way when it's a black perp... I guess, in YOUR minds, it's justified when it's white Perps...

:^/

The patrolman's job is to make an arrest, period.

No.. It's the patrolman's job to make it home alive and insure other innocents make it home alive..

THAT is job 1...

The cops that get into these situations are acting out of insecurity, fear or belligerence.

OHMYGODS, that is just TOO STOOPID to address.. :^/

How about working together with pro-law enforcement liberals on gun laws that would reduce the danger to cops on the street?

Because it isn't any cop's job to be judge, jury and executioner. That's the State's job, following a fair and open trial, according to the law. The patrolman's job is to make an arrest, period. If he is unable to make a clean arrest, it's his job to call in someone who can.

The cops that get into these situations are acting out of insecurity, fear or belligerence. Until they can learn to apply non-lethal force in every instance, they simply aren't doing their jobs correctly.

It's easy...

Just pretend they were a Trump supporter... See how easy it is??

No, I won't answer because you have yet to answer my questions..

I know WHY you won't answer... Because any rational and reasonable answer would show the fallacy of your argument..

I get it, I really do...

You can't point to one case where you eviscerated a bad cop despite multiple times where you gleefully point to a dead person and tell us they deserved it.

I already have pointed to one case. The scumbag cop in one of the Carolinas who shot a black guy in the back and then planted his tazer to make it look like the black guy attacked the cop first..

Your turn..

Were ANY of the cases you listed a "bad shoot"...

No, none were..

So why should I eviscerate a cop who was simply just doing his job??

Why do you ALWAYS assume that, if a cop kills a black perp, the COP is always guilty of murder??

I know, I know.. You won't answer that either...

But at least we're having the discussion I want to have.. :D

You won't answer because you can't answer. You still can't point to any comment I made supporting your lie that: "Yea, you have.. You (and many others) have gone on and on about how Hillary really won the election"

You can't point to one case where you eviscerated a bad cop despite multiple times where you gleefully point to a dead person and tell us they deserved it.

Time to man up, if you can. (We know, you can't, all you can do is troll.)

1. Rand Paul is always the maverick who is going to vote against the Republicans, then a week or two later changes his mind (latest example, Kavanaugh). Note I'm not against changing your mind, just making it a public spectacle to get news coverage time after time.

2. Lindsay Graham getting all worked up and gung-ho then doing nothing - (latest example, Russia sanctions for continued interference in our elections).

Nope, you haven't answered either of them..

Once you do, I'll be happy to address your points. :D

I've already answered questions - time for you to man up - do you support bad cops who shoot illegally just because they are cops, and if not, why do you only post links to news where a cop gets vindicated, but not links to ones where bad cops are punished?

Also, why do you then gleefully use the link and make up some story in your head that everybody else on the site was wrong and you were proved right?

It's totally rational to behave as though subsequent money acquired has a reduced utility value compared to the first money. Jeff Bezos can eat fancier food than can a poor person, but he cannot eat a bite more.

But that's not neilm's point. Go way back and read where he first brought up the K - T thing. It's beyond ridiculous the way he (I presume) re-phrased it.

We have 2 outstanding questions.

1. Are you validating the protesters' position in the Chicago shooting, IE are you claiming it was a bad shoot??

2. Were the OI shootings you listed all adjudicated as "good shoots", IE justified use of force???

Kahneman and Tversky applies nicely to the Bernoulli Wager AKA the St. Petersburg Paradox.

Flip a coin until you obtain a tails result. Your payoff is 1 dollar if you flip a heads on the first try, nothing if you flip tails. The payoff doubles each time you get another heads toss: 1,2,4,8.... How much are you willing to pay to play that game?

Most college undergrads are initially willing to pay about $4. It doesn't increase much if you explain to them that the expected payout is infinite. A very few are willing to up to about 50 bucks. (These tend to be math majors). People don't behave as if 10 million bucks is ten times as good as 1 million bucks.

And yer just noticing this now!?? :D

Rewording something is some sort of climb down in your head? Time to go back on the meds buddy.

I calls 'em and I sees 'em...

And back-pedaling is becoming quite the Weigantian past time these days.. :D