Remind me again of the "tolerance" of the Left Wingery??

I seem to have forgotten what with all the FACTS to the contrary...

361

Yes, we can..

The problem is that ya'all insist that the Republicans start first and then ya'all will hold your Democrats accountable..

Like charity, accountability begins at home..

Clean ya'all's house first..

THEN ya'all will have a moral breadbox to stand on..

354

No, I had the right date..

I knew I was factually accurate on 7 Nov...

8 Nov just proved it to the rest of you.. :D

352

Everybody was pleased for the workers at the Carrier plant last year, even if the political sideshow was obnoxious and the cost was paid by Indiana's taxpayers (although, maybe some of them weren't thrilled).

UTC, the parent company, also announced a new facility in Connecticut.

Sadly, the deal cut by the then President-elect did not cover all the jobs - only 800 (another 300 were never in jeopardy - they were admins and engineers).

But the good news is that new facility in Connecticut. Could the laid off Indiana workers up sticks and move East?

Well at this point you may be asking yourself: Why are UTC moving a factory to Mexico from relatively cheap Indiana and opening a facility in high tax, expensive Connecticut.

Well of the 1700 jobs at the new CT plant, 350 are Ph.D.'s, and the rest are highly paid engineers.

We need an education revolution in this country. Is it ridiculous to think that we can get 90% of our kids though tertiary education with valuable degrees that get jobs that buy a World class living?

You know you have the wrong date, right?

November 8th.

Go read the link in [140].

Trust me, we all can do better.

I agree... If Alabama elects a Dumbocrat tomorrow, America HAS to do better than Alabama...

Really. Sadly, you are only fooling yourself.

I know that's what you have to tell yourself..

Because the alternative is that I am as right now as I was on 7 Nov 2016...

And THAT is just too much for you to handle...

351

https://www.safalniveshak.com/circle-of-competence-what-and-why/

And the advice ... read, read, read.

It turns out you will find answers in books - all that the "school of hard knocks" teaches you is a tiny part of the World with little relevance elsewhere. Experience is a slow teacher. But if you can learn to learn then you can gain real knowledge a lot faster from other peoples' wisdom. If you don't learn how to learn, then you are doomed to learn from experience - slow and painful.

Really. Sadly, you are only fooling yourself.

Now THAT's projection..

I am open to ANY idea, no matter how ludicrous and ridiculous...

As long as it's delivered in a fair, impartial, LOGICAL and RATIONAL manner, let's talk...

But when it's nothing but hysterical PTDS???

When many of ya'all have to create SAFE SPACES so you are not exposed to new ideas??? And such SAFE SPACES are ENCOURAGED by all???

Well, it's clear who is stuck in the narrow confines of Party slavery....

*I* have no Party.... :D

Give you a perfect example..

Can you concede that you MIGHT be wrong and that Trump will be a great President along the lines of JFK???

Nope... You cannot even CONCEDE the possibility...

Narrow minded.... LOCKED by Party Slavery....

350

You're projecting again Michale. There are different approaches to thinking. Yours tends to be zero sum, with a predisposition to bow to authority and focused on differences - other people approach things differently. So when you are confronted you expect the person to behave as you do, but I'm not your mirror opposite.

..... but only wthin the narrow confines of our ideology and Party slavery...

There... Fixed it for you.. :D

349

Word.....

348

It is in vain because you are not selling your proposals. If you assume, like Michale, that this is just a party based tit-for-tat contradiction forum then the whole point of posting here is in vain.

But I think you'll find that most are open to ideas. Michale tends to denigrate the conversation and the rest us us just try to wind him up as it costs him $0.25/comment at this time of the year and it is good for CW, but the point is an exchange of ideas.

There are some third rails for me, I'll admit. Denying climate science just isn't a rational position. Evolution the same. Announcing that one group of Americans are immune from sexual predators is another - both from evidence and probability theory.

However explaining why you think Obamacare needs improved and offering viable ideas is very interesting. Blanket condemnations, a la Michale, coupled with name calling is puerile, but we put up with him or install the "Michale blocker".

We are facing a changing America where there is increased inequality that is being driven, for the most part, along education lines - the well educated are thriving, the poorly educated are seeing their future diminish. One solution is larger government - take more money from the rich and give it to the poor. Another is less government - try to free up business so the pie grows and everybody gets more.

Both of these approaches have strengths and weaknesses - Europe offers a better social contract, but at the cost of lethargic growth and innovation - it isn't an accident that Google, Apple, Facebook and Amazon were born on the West Coast, or that Baidu, Alibaba and Tencent appeared in China.

But maybe there is a better way - instead of larger government vs. smaller government, how about smarter government? We have tools at our disposal that are changing our society immeasurably - why can't we harness these tools to create a smarter, more open, richer, society that creates more winners?

Ya'all are fed a steady diet of bullshit..

CNN confesses to ANOTHER Anti-Trump bullshit claim...

CNN Walks Back Jeff Sessions-Russia Bombshell

However, CNN admitted early Monday that FBI emails prove that Sessions’ explanation for the non-disclosures is accurate.
http://dailycaller.com/2017/12/11/cnn-walks-back-jeff-sessions-russia-bombshell/

And President Trump wins another round!! :D

Go ahead, people. Keep believing all the Fake News coming out of the Leftist MSM...

It just makes my laughter and my gloating so much more fun... :D

347

You are right. My apologies.

It most certainly will. I've been gaming out possible outcomes of the Mueller investigation, and they all look bad:

1. Mueller presents his proof, gets giant Raspberry from Trump and Republicans, who refuse to bring the matter to the House floor, effectively killing any attempt at impeachment until after the midterms. Democrats don't do as well as expected in the midterms, and the matter dies until it is raised during the 2020 election, by which point most folks have forgotten about it.

2. Mueller presents proof of collusion, but spares Trump of direct involvement. Trump pardons his son and a few others and declares the matter over.

3. Mueller presents proof of collusion, including Trump himself. Ryan, under seige, relents to impeachment proceedings, but halfheartedly. Trump fights tooth and nail, threatening the careers of any Republican who dares to vote against him, and vows to ruin Ryan. The House impeachment vote is delayed until after the midterms.

4. Mueller reports, and the House does nothing until 2018, when Democrats take over and begin impeachment proceedings, which get dragged out over the course of a full year. By 2019, cable news is reporting on 'impeachment fatigue', and it becomes clear that everyone has retreated back into ideological camps. The House finally votes out Articles of Impeachment along party lines, but the Senate drags its feet, setting up the 2020 election to be a referendum on Trump.

5. Regardless of what Republicans do about Mueller's report, Democrats take power of both House and Senate in 2018, and impeach Trump by late 2019. Pence takes office, pardons Trump, appoints him Vice President, then resigns.

You have NEVER heard me "defending Moore and 45". That's pure BS. I don't much get involved with personalities or ideologies. I mostly try (invariably in vain) to point out where 'Democratics' who suffer from misconceptions of how the real world works (that's all of 'em) go astray on how the gov't should be run.

Bullshit...

Franken & Conyers are the Democrats attempt to establish the moral high ground..

They will fail unless they put Kennedy and CLinton in their right place...

If Moore DOES lose tomorrow, look for Franken to rescind his resignation...

We are seeing the fear on the right regarding the Mueller investigation growing.

No... The hysterical NeverTrumpers are seeing fear on the right..

It's nothing but wishful thinking..

346

The last time 45 fired the lead of the Russia investigation it backfired on him. Badly.

History shows that this is the pattern (Nixon/Cox, Grant/Henderson, 45/Comey).

This is "playing the man, not the ball" and it is the media and public pressure that demand an independent investigation, so a replacement has always been appointed shortly thereafter.

45 is sufficiently venal, and the Republicans sufficiently desperate for tax cuts for the wealthy, and scared of the Fox News base, that it might take a swing election in 2018 to force the issue.

Don't get too excited, Michale, Moore might win yet. Senate race polls have an average error rate of 6%, plus this is an off schedule election with a lot of bizarre factors.

We'll know tomorrow night.

Plus, Franken and Conyers have nothing to do with Moore - they are part of the Democratic Party cleaning house. The Republicans have their own house cleaning to do (45 for starters).

Have you???

I'm middle-of-the-road, basically all I do is consider if I'm wrong.

It is only extremists that see things in black and white and think they are always right.

No, the cop was charged because the legal system is mob rule..

We didn't know if he was a thug with a gun or a good cop. The legal system did its job and justice prevailed.

Yes it did.. Which doesn't change the fact that he was only charge to appease the unruly mob..

Just like Zimmerman, just like Wilson, just like Tessig... etc etc etc

Wanting to let all cops walk away from every incident free of suspicion is why we have bad cops -

No one is advocating that.. When you have a cop like that one in South Carolina, charges are warranted BASED ON THE FACTS...

But in the cases that I mentioned and so many more, charges are pushed SOLELY on the basis of an unruly mob..

I don't know - why are you posting "look at me I'm winning" comments continually? Do you just like gloating, or are you scared?

WHy are you posting all of the TRUMP IS TOAST comments continually???

Are you gloating or are you scared?? :D

Have you ever considered you might be wrong? I mean, just once?

Have you???

345

Wouldn't it be a HOOT if the Dumbocrats forced out Conyers and Franken for NOTHING!!!!! :D

344

If you have dirty laundry, you can clean it or you can pretend it doesn't stink.

It is only Republican politicians and voters that seem to think they are the only people in the country that don't stink.

Have you ever considered you might be wrong? I mean, just once?

I don't know - why are you posting "look at me I'm winning" comments continually? Do you just like gloating, or are you scared?

No, the cop was charged because the legal system charged him.

We didn't know if he was a thug with a gun or a good cop. The legal system did its job and justice prevailed.

Wanting to let all cops walk away from every incident free of suspicion is why we have bad cops - they know they can get away with it. It is why the cops I know want the bad ones to be weeded out, and want justice to be seen to be done.

“Feeling grumpy or stressed? Let the Care Bears help!” the display states above a large, hand-drawn rainbow adorned with bit of advice for students.
https://www.campusreform.org/?ID=10254

The future leaders of the world.. :^/

"I weep for the future..."
-Maitre' de, FERRIS BEUHLERS DAY OFF

343

Why should I be desperate???

Trump is President and will be until 20 Jun of 2024... :D

Happy Days Are Here Again.. :D

342

You win the 'Net for the day with that one... :D

341

No.. The fact that the cop was charged to appease public opinion is what is sad...

340

To paraphrase a famous quote, With 'respecters' like that, women don't need abusers!!!

Smart lady. The U.N. is a fairly safe place as well. Sure she has to defend that asinine Jerusalem announcement, but nobody thinks that was her idea - it is obviously Sheldon Edelsen and Chuck Shumer. Plus being pro-Israeli is another long term feather in her cap - in 10 years everybody will have forgotten that except the people she reminds behind closed doors.

45 must be a winner, you keep telling yourself.

What are the three pieces of legislation that have passed (you know, the point of Government) that made a difference to you?

My guess, things that upset other people that you don't like because all you seem to have is your glee at other people's sadness.

Like the family of the guy shot by the cop. I'm sure the cop followed protocol, but gloating about that is a bit sad, n'est-ce pas?

This man was so much more than his image. While his vision soared, the power of his personality and the magnet of his intellect drew his colleagues to the table of compromise. It was there he did his best work. His love for the little guy and his affection for the underdog influenced everything he did. And importantly, his sense of humor and contagious laughter made him real and approachable in spite of his power and privilege.

http://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2017/12/no_one_ever_drowned_in_roy_moores_car.html#ixzz50xkxLaNd

Oh yea.. Democrats surely have a moral leg to stand on NOT!!

339

FRIDAY WAS ONE of the most embarrassing days for the U.S. media in quite a long time. The humiliation orgy was kicked off by CNN, with MSNBC and CBS close behind, with countless pundits, commentators and operatives joining the party throughout the day. By the end of the day, it was clear that several of the nation’s largest and most influential news outlets had spread an explosive but completely false news story to millions of people, while refusing to provide any explanation of how it happened.

Three distinct and separate news media platforms confirmed the date of the email and EACH platform said they have MULTIPLE separate and distinct confirmations of the SAME date...

So if we extrapolate that each media source (3) each had 3 separate independent confirmations of the date, that means that *NINE* people independently and THOROUGHLY separate from each other *ALL* read the date wrong in the EXACT SAME MANNER..

Do you see why it's impossible to take ya'all seriously??

You pass off the most ridiculous bullshit as fact....

Proof positive that ya'all are in the grips of PTDS...

338

His SCOTUS pick, Neil Gorsuch, eagerly cast a vote to impose the Muslim travel ban. His EPA head, Scott Pruitt, delivered a couple million acres of public monument land in the West to oil, gas, and coal industry developers. Trump busily continues to pack the federal judiciary with a parade of ultra-conservative, strict, constructionist Clarence Thomas and Antonin Scalia clones.
https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/sadly-trump-is-winning_us_5a2b1110e4b022ec613b823f

There ya go, people... Trump is winning.. HuffPoop says it so ya'all HAVE to believe it's true.. :D

Hoisted By Yer Own Picard :D

Philip Mitchell Brailsford, 27, was cleared of criminal liability last Thursday in the shooting death of Texas man Daniel Shaver.
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/12/11/former-arizona-cop-acquitted-in-shooting-was-failed-actor-report-says.html

NOT GUILTY

336

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DQtZUgqV4AAkwbe.jpg

Your TRUMP IS TOAST predictions have ALL been wrong..

ALL of them.. WRONG...

So, don't try and put yer "HOPELESS" sign on me.. :D ya'all are the ones who are so ruled by yer PTDS ya'all can't think straight.. :D

I would have thought that pointing out that ya'all are acting WORSE than Republicans acted under Odumbo would actually mean something to ya'all..

But you are such in the grip of ya'all's PTDS you don't even CARE that ya'all are acting WORSE than Republicans..

THAT should be a cold hard slap in the face......

334

It's also blatant discrimination to force Trump supporters out of a coffee shop.. Yet you don't have a problem with that kind of discrimination....

THAT's my point..

It is for that reason that, even as we respect the right of every American to practice whatever religion they wish, we have endeavored in recent years to assure that religious intolerance does not infect the public square. Intolerance cannot be deemed to be free exercise of religion because, according to multiple statements by the leaders of all of the great religions, it is not a tenet of any of them. One could quibble with how that shakes out in actual practice, but not with the legal and moral precedent.

And when the SCOTUS rules in favor of the baker, then there WILL be a legal precedent set..

And it won't be good for the gay community..

THAT (also) is my point..

So, despite yer straw man arguments, you DON'T address my points so, therefore, I can only conclude that you concede my points as factually accurate...

333

That's your opinion... But it's an opinion that is borne of Party slavery and, as such, that has to be taken into account when estimating the validity of the opinion...

And, after reading the compelling first chapters of the book "Collusion" I'm starting to wonder if he might be a traitor.

Ahhh so now yer a fan of the Russian Collusion bs now, eh? :^/

I had such hope for you..

Explosive stuff - reads like a John le Carre spy novel.

There is a reason for that. Because it's fiction... DuH.....

332

45's defense and continued support of Flynn (you know, the "great guy" stuff) is regarded in the intelligence community as fear of what Flynn knows about 45 or his family's involvement with the collusion on sanctions.

Also the background on how Russian Intelligence works and the way they cultivate "useful idiots" and compromise foreigners puts 45's continual praise for Putin in a damning light.

A lot is going to depend on how you view his credibility, because if 1/2 of what he claims happened turns out to be validated by Mueller, there are going to be fireworks.

If his book is completely accurate then Mueller will have to be closed down by 45 before he finishes his investigation, and the Republicans better hold both houses in 2018 to stop any further investigations happening.

https://www.theguardian.com/profile/lukeharding

You're welcome:

https://www.katzsdelicatessen.com/menu_and_local-delivery

https://www.barneygreengrass.com/pages/sandwiches

http://www.2ndavedeli.com/menus/dine-in-take-out/

One wonders who recommended him to Trump, and why.

Fun fact: Carter Page was the first foreign policy advisor's name given to the press by Trump!

To borrow from an old joke, the difference between a baker and a bigot is that a baker will make a cake for anyone; a bigot will make a cake for anyone but you.

Again, the measure is, is the cake already on the menu? If so, it's blatant discrimination to deny that cake to a member of any particular gender, religion or creed, or racial group, solely because they belong to that group, regardless of one's own religious belief.

It seems such a petty thing, to say, "I'll make that cake for you, but not for YOU." That was never a part of the American way. We are (as Murray's character in Stripes observed) a nation of mutts. Americans have come to these shores from every corner of the planet seeking a home where they aren't judged ineligible by religious fanatics, where they can hold any personal credo they wish without fear of rejection or retribution. Many of our ancestors were fleeing exactly that when they came here.

It is for that reason that, even as we respect the right of every American to practice whatever religion they wish, we have endeavored in recent years to assure that religious intolerance does not infect the public square. Intolerance cannot be deemed to be free exercise of religion because, according to multiple statements by the leaders of all of the great religions, it is not a tenet of any of them. One could quibble with how that shakes out in actual practice, but not with the legal and moral precedent.

WHO was "defending a hopeless position"??? :D

You are - he is hopeless in the position he occupies - you keep making this easier for me.

Yes. But if they put a cake on the menu, they don't get to pick their customers. Why is this beyond you? Oh yes, you can't come up with any other argument. Try the "cake is speech" one - SCOTUS might decide it works - hell, four justices already thing we have speaking cakes.

Ya'all have been WRONG about Trump at EVERY turn...

Actually, I've been right about 45 most of the time. He is a serial liar. He is narcissistic, he is unqualified for the job.

And, after reading the compelling first chapters of the book "Collusion" I'm starting to wonder if he might be a traitor.

Explosive stuff - reads like a John le Carre spy novel. Carter Page is getting absolutely trashed at this point in the book - I didn't know much about him before, but what a dimwit ... and of course 45 hand picked him.

Ya'all have been WRONG about Trump at EVERY turn...

It's clear from the FACTS who has been defendng a "hopeless" position...

331

But the simple fact is a person's freedom of religion trumps the convenience of a gay activists pushing an agenda...

And that is how the SCOTUS will rule...

Michale [84] - what a lot of nonsense you spout at times - this is what happens when you try to defend a hopeless position.

Ex-Squeeze me???

PRESIDENT Trump???

WHO was "defending a hopeless position"??? :D

330.

Hay.. It's their bakery.. they pick the cakes they will and won't make..

Funny how ALL discrimination that comes FROM the Left is perfectly acceptable to ya'all...

329

https://www.amazon.com/Collusion-Secret-Meetings-Russia-Helped-ebook/dp/B0776YZF4P/

I'll let you know if it is as good as the reviews say.

And I'd forgotten about Dick Morris (thanks Balthasar).

I know of plenty of delis that don't have BLT on the menu - I'm sure at some, if I asked, they'd make one up if they had the ingredients, but if they didn't, then hey, it is their deli, they pick the ingredients to stock.

Which would have to be a bakery that made and sold rainbow colored cakes in the past, else the gay couple would have no case. Similarly, if advertising for the bakery says: "wedding cakes made to order", the baker might have to explain why baking one cake is any more or less religious in nature than baking another.

Could, for instance, the baker refuse the order if it included instruction that it not be decorated? Would the baker's presumed first amendment right to refuse the order extend to plain cake?

I wonder if that's what Dick Morris did with Clinton in 1994. Remember that odd event?

I am guessing you haven't had pleasant run-ins with cops.. :D

328

Badly crafted and hastily crafted anti-recording laws are now on the books in many states, but I have every confidence that they will be tested in the courts soon, as will the use (and non-use) of body cams. I can't conceive that the right of a citizen to record a public event occurring right in front of him wouldn't be upheld in some form, lest the establishment be dogged forever by guerilla video.

But I also think that focusing on lawless cops misses the mark by some degree. I think it might be Eric Holder who said that laws that strengthen the ability of good cops to weed out bad cops might be, long term, a more effective way to combat the problem. Empower good from within. That's what whistleblower laws accomplish.

After all, when Wall Street is caught out stealing, they don't blame the SEC's accountants and attorneys, they blame the laws that affect their relationship with them.

Empowering all citizens to record police/civilian interactions would be a step towards leveling the playing field between Us and Them, and transparency laws would improve understanding and accountability between Them and everyone else.

Every deli in the city does BLT.. There is absolutely NO REASON why the muslim deli shouldn't do BLT.. I want THAT deli to make me a BLT..

Because, you see, my goal is NOT to have a BLT.. My goal is to FORCE my beliefs on others who REFUSE to share them...

Yes... It's a weak argument..

But it's EXACTLY the same argument that the gay couples are making when they insist to pick out the bakery that furthers their activist agenda...

327

It depends on what the Republican is asking the consultant to do. As you say, s/he is a Democrat Consultant so s/he is selling Democrat Consulting - if that is what the Republican wants, then s/he can offer to buy those services - but what the Republican candidate can't do is ask the consultant to provide Republican consulting because that isn't on the menu. Capiche?

Frankly, if I was a Democratic Consultant and a Republican wanted me to run their campaign I'd say: "Thanks! Pay me up front."

So, if I want to run for office as a Republican and I go to a Democrat Consultant and hire them to run my campaign, they can't refuse or else they would be guilty of discrimination..

We have these manufactured cases all the time, and the problem is, who decides which to accept into court and which to ignore.

We will have one testing Roe vs. Wade soon enough - this is the hideous bargain the religious made with their morals to support 45 and Moore - they would get them the votes to stack the SCOTUS with anti-abortionists.

The religious might find they are overplaying their hand.

I think that the religious will see this as a pyrrhic victory after the initial gloating is over. The gay community is well organized and this is going to piss them off, and they are going to highlight all the bigots who come out of the woodwork if this passes and Christianity, which is already suffering from association with child molesters such as the Catholic priests and Roy Moore, are going to be indelibly tied to the most hateful who relish the chance to legally act on their bigotry.

Is that clear? I mean, it isn't that difficult.

That is why the religious whackos who are pursuing this are going with the "Cake is speech" nonsense. Even they don't think a house painter should be forced to stock mushroom omelets just because you feel a bit peckish.

It is already legal for a gas station not to carry pork. Or a car dealership not to sell Twinkies. I mean, really, is this the level of argument that the right is running with?

Do you really want to force your exterminator to sell you broccoli? Or a new toaster? Or a cruise to Alaska?

Also, are you trying to tell us that a BLT is a form of speech - this is the argument the right wing religious extremists are using to defend the baker from not selling the cake.

A cake is speech? Snowflake thinking. The religious already have their safe spaces - they are called churches. In America, thanks to the Constitution, they don't have any special privileges, unlike, for example, the United Kingdom, where 26 Bishops (Lords Spiritual) of the chosen religion get to vote in the House of Lords.

But the religious right want to impose their morality (which, it seems, includes touching 14-year-old girls) on everybody. It doesn't work like that. And the real hypocrisy is that these are the same people bleating on and on about "Sharia Law".

Seriously, in the article that tallied the number of lies they did say that at some points 45 issues so many lies that they can't be counted, so the number they use is only those that they can specifically count - they know he lies more, but just too quickly at times.

Sullivan is saying that THIS case is a bad case for a multitude of reasons..

Now all of the examples that Sullivan gave, and the one that you provide at [70] already have remedies. It is already legal for a baker to tell a client that he doesn't do penises. It's already legal for a kosher deli to not carry pork, etc.etc.

Oh, so you allow that bakers CAN discriminate, just not because of their faith..

Where is the logic in that??

That's the point that Sullivan is missing. It is not the province of the shop owner to care what the client does with his product once he's made and sold it,

But we're not talking about a product, we are talking about a creation...

Put another way. If someone commissioned me to paint a picture and told me that he was going to burn it afterwards, I would tell him to bugger off..

How is a cake any different??

Your examples are all products. And, in this instance, we're talking about creations..

But I do acknowledge the logic of your arguments..

I simply believe, as Andrew Sullivan believes, that this is a case that the Baker's adherence to his faith trumps the couple's inconvenience of having to go elsewhere..

The gay couple will lose this case and set a bad precedence for the gay community..

325

The article that you post at [69] is just such an article, even more so when you realize that Sullivan is himself gay.

I suppose that my answer to Sullivan would be to say that it gets a lot stickier when you substitute the word 'gay' with 'black' or 'female', and the word 'baker' with the word 'bank'. Can a privately owned bank refuse an account or a loan to a black family, or to single woman simply on the grounds of the applicant's race or sex, even if the bank's private owner cites some religious ground? I certainly hope not.

And what if that religion happens to be Scientology or Islam, rather than Christianity? Could a Buddist
contractor refuse to amend the plans for a building in progress on the ground that the feng shui of the change is all wrong? What if it's a government project?

Now all of the examples that Sullivan gave, and the one that you provide at [70] already have remedies. It is already legal for a baker to tell a client that he doesn't do penises. It's already legal for a kosher deli to not carry pork, etc.etc.

It is not, however, legal for a kosher deli to refuse to serve the same product to an ethnic arab that it would serve to anyone else.

That's the point that Sullivan is missing. It is not the province of the shop owner to care what the client does with his product once he's made and sold it, unless the customer informs him that, for instance he intends to use the cake to choke his grandfather, at which point he should call the police.

But unless the couple in question were asking for him to also officiate their wedding, the cake's ultimate use is not the baker's concern.

As I understand it, the couple were asking only for a 'rainbow' cake, much like those often made for children's birthdays. The baker could legally refuse to provide anything he didn't normally provide - like a plastic image of two men on top, for instance - but if he would normally have no religious objection to making and selling rainbow cakes, he should have no problem making this one, and what happens to it once it leaves his store is of no concern to him.

By the same token, the seller of tiki torches in Charleston can't be sued because they were used in a White Nationalist march because, a) his is a public business, by law anyone can enter and purchase a torch or torches, and b) his responsibility for the torches ends once the torches are sold.

Or, better yet... Go into a muslim deli and FORCE the muslim owner to make me a BLT...

THAT is the road that the hysterical Left Wingery and hysterical gay activists are leading us down..

That your conscience and convictions are subject to the whims and the will of the State....

That's not the America that I have fought and bled and killed and so many have died for...

324

It always worries me when gays advocate taking freedom away from other people. It worries me as a matter of principle. But it also unsettles me because some gay activists do not seem to realize that the position they’re taking is particularly dangerous for a tiny and historically despised minority. The blithe unconcern for the First Amendment in the war on “hate speech,” for example, ignores the fact that, for centuries, the First Amendment was the only defense the gay minority ever had — and now, with the first taste of power, we are restricting the rights of others in this respect? Ugh. Endorse the state’s right to coerce speech or conscience and you have ceded a principle that can so easily come back to haunt you. The freedom of any baker to express himself is, in this respect, indistinguishable from that of any gay person to do so — a truth that our current tribalism blinds so many to. I hope, in other words, that the baker prevails — but that the Supreme Court decision doesn’t turn on religious so much as artistic freedom.
http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2017/12/andrew-sullivan-let-him-have-his-cake.html

Yep.. Yep... Yep...

323

So, attacking Leftist MSM for their blatantly lies is now "leftist propaganda"???

Jeezus, you will say ANYTHING to protect your biased and totally full of shit media, won't you?? :^/

322

A Party slave would be OUTRAGED that their media frak'ed up what should have been an easy lie...

321

And yet, you don't mind when your news media blatantly LIES to you??

Of course you don't.. Because you WANT to believe it's true... So, you don't question it. Even when it's PROVEN to be a false narrative...

That's not being a "news junkie".. It's being a Party slave... A drone without a mind of it's own..

320

No, it's already evident

adjective: evident

plain or obvious; clearly seen or understood.
"she ate the cookies with evident enjoyment"

synonyms: obvious, apparent, noticeable, conspicuous, perceptible, visible, discernible, clear, clear-cut, plain, manifest, patent

Why?? Because the MEDIA has told you so?

Where do you get your information? From cloud patterns? Of course the media had a role. Unlike most Fox viewers, I peruse a large amount of media, both online and offline, both left and right leaning, before forming an opinion, which is why I'm usually fairly well informed. I'm what they call a "news junkie".

At least, the polls that tell you what you want to hear.. :D

All you have to support your position is FACTUALLY PROVEN bullshit polls and FACTUALLY PROVEN bullshit media..

:D

Like I said.. It's so adorable..

319

Pew research surveyed 37 countries and found a widespread collapse of trust in the US president and in the United States. A median of just 22% said they have confidence in Trump to do the right thing in world affairs, a jaw-dropping collapse from the 64% who trusted the US president at the end of the Obama presidency.

A stunning 74% said they have little or no confidence in Trump, up from just 23% who didn't trust Obama. Mistrust in the US leader extended to confidence in the United States, with favorable views of the United States plummeting around the world from 64% to 49% since Trump became president.

Thanks for the data, Michale.

It's "already evidence"???

Why?? Because the MEDIA has told you so??

The SAME media that has blatantly LIED over and over and over again??

And you believe them SOLELY because you WANT to believe them..

318

SO, an ad honimem attack on Greenwald... CHECK

Likely a staffer who saw the email and read the date wrong, told his boss, who told his boss, etc.

So, a half dozen staffers ALL read the date wrong???

My gods, man.. Do you see how far off the reservation you have to be to float THAT kind of BS and actually EXPECT it to be believed!!??

All the rest is just strawmen and deflection and has nothing to do with the FACT that the MSM has absolutely NO CREDIBILITY on President Trump whatsoever...

317

Trump's global credibility is shot
http://www.cnn.com/2017/12/06/opinions/trump-global-trust-lost-opinion-ghitis/index.html

Get that??

*CNN* says that Trump's credibility is shot...

BBBBWWWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

316

Agreeing with me?? THAT is just asking WAY too much.

I never thought that I'd find you spreading leftist propaganda this early in the morning, but stranger things have happened lately.

You do know what Greenwald's point of view is here, don't you? Greenwald is the American who helped Snowden get to Russia so that he could dump thousands of top secret US documents onto the internet via Wikileaks and Greenwald. Greenwald is protecting both his Russian friends and Wikileaks by attacking western media. That's the background.

As for the story itself, Greenwald probably gets it right: at least two – and possibly more – sources, which these media outlets all assessed as credible in terms of having access to sensitive information, all fed the same false information to multiple news outlets at the same time.

Likely a staffer who saw the email and read the date wrong, told his boss, who told his boss, etc.

This all comes at a time when Mueller is turning up the heat on his probe - at least four indictments that we know of, at least two flipped witnesses that we know of, and at least two guilty pleas that we know of, so far. The new FBI director just confirmed that Mueller's team has obtained FISA warrents, and Mueller just spent two days with Trump's personal assistant, Hope Hicks.

Considering where this investigation began - with Jeff Sessions for instance testifying under oath that nobody 'he knew of' having any contact with Russians - Mueller already has enough evidence to prove extensive contact between the Trump campaign and the Russians.

The contacts that we know about include at least nine principals in the Trump campaign interacting with Russians at least 31 times, including at least 19 meetings. In addition, extensive financial ties between Trump, Kushner, Eric Prince, Manafort, Mike Flynn and Wilber Ross, and the Russians, some worth billions of dollars, have been documented.

So at this point it's not a matter of IF, but of HOW the Trump team did its collusion, and what quid pro quo's were bandied about. Flynn, for instance, finally admitted to discussing the lifting of Magnitsky Sanctions with the Russian Ambassador, his previous lie to the FBI revealed when Kislyak reported the exchange to Putin and it was picked up in intelligence intercepts.

Attacking the messenger Michale, whether it is Mueller or the press, won't change the direction of the investigation or the facts of the case. It's already evident that the Trump campaign was prepared to trade US policy, and possibly the Ukraine itself, for advantageous assistance in the 2016 election. It shouldn't be long now before we discover how deep, and how high, that corruption actually went.

If ya'all watch NOTHING else today, ya'all have to watch this.. :D

315

No word yet as to where the newlyweds will honeymoon, but the Stein family is reputed to own a castle in Romania...

:D

314

To be more accurate, agree 1000% with everything that Glenn Greenwald just said...

Agreeing with me?? THAT is just asking WAY too much.. :D

At minimum, these networks – CNN, MSNBC and CBS – have to either identify who purposely fed them this blatantly false information, or explain how it’s possible that “multiple sources” all got the same information wrong in innocence and good faith. Until they do that, their cries and protests the next time they’re attacked as “Fake News” should fall on deaf ears, since the real author of those attacks – the reason those attacks resonate – is themselves and their own conduct.

Emphasis mine...

And, if ya'all were the fair minded rational people I know ya'all CAN be, you would agree 1000% with everything I just said here..

But I know that ya'all are in the throes of virulent cases of PTDS so I expect ya'all will ignore or attack what I just said here..

It's OK.. I understand and forgive ya'all.. Ya'all are not responsible for your actions when under the influences of such a grave illness...

312

Sound familiar???

If this Fake News is all just a bunch of honest mistakes, why are the virtually *ALL* in one direction and one direction only??

Answer: They are not honest mistakes, but a coordinated campaign of dis-information and out and out bullshit with one single goal in mind..

The nullification of a free fair and legal US presidential election..

And the fact that ya'all actively SUPPORT such a plan is disturbing beyond all belief..

311

The spectacle began on Friday morning at 11:00 am EST, when the Most Trusted Name in News™ spent 12 straight minutes on air flamboyantly hyping an exclusive bombshell report that seemed to prove that WikiLeaks, last September, had secretly offered the Trump campaign, even Donald Trump himself, special access to the DNC emails before they were published on the internet. As CNN sees the world, this would prove collusion between the Trump family and WikiLeaks and, more importantly, between Trump and Russia, since the U.S. intelligence community regards WikiLeaks as an “arm of Russian intelligence,” and therefore, so does the U.S. media.
https://theintercept.com/2017/12/09/the-u-s-media-yesterday-suffered-its-most-humiliating-debacle-in-ages-now-refuses-all-transparency-over-what-happened/

The Leftist MSM is abandoning all pretext of journalistic ethics and facts and just going with an all out war to bring down the President. They couldn't do it with FACTS because the FACTS don't support their narrative.

So they have opted for a campaign of lies and bullshit...

And the fact that ya'all buy into the shit storm of Fake anti-President Trump Fake News shows that ya'all don't care about facts or ya'all's old stand by "truth"...

Ya'all support the removal of President Trump by *ANY* means necessary..

How long, I wonder, until the hysterical NeverTrumpers start searching around for a John Wilkes Booth or a Lee Harvey Oswald???

I honestly have to wonder if anyone here would really care??

310

No... That's what FACTS look like....

309

That's wrong, they say, because Democrats might be biased against Trump.

Some of those same Democrats were also on the team that investigated Hillary.

That's wrong, they say, because Democrats might have been biased in favor of Hillary.

To recap: Democrats can't investigate Democrats, and Democrats can't investigate Republicans.

And both Comey and Mueller are Republicans who are too biased, they say, to investigate Trump.

That's what pretzel logic looks like!

It all reminds me of Charlie Brown, Lucy and the football. I shouldn't have to explain that, because it's depressingly familiar: at various times in the recent past, Democrats have relied on Evangelicals to reject open vulgarity and bad behavior, on conservative Deficit Hawks to reject trillion dollar boondoggles, and on National Security Hawks to reject open overtures to America's adversaries, only to see each of those groups end up voting enthusiastically for candidates and programs that unabashedly trash those principles.

And if I got a bitcoin for every time I've heard a Democrat bemoan the tendency of low income Republicans, black republicans, hispanic republicans, female republicans, and elderly republicans to vote against their own self-interests, I could be a Winklevoss twin.

And yet, whenever Democrats gather these days, the subject comes up: why can't we win those people over? What are we doing wrong? What about independents? Why can't we attract them?

Sorry sunshine, but most 'independents' are just closet partisans, who voted against the popular vote (i.e., Democrats) in 2000, 2004 and 2016.

Most observers put the number of 'true' independents in the 4-5 percent range, most of them being folks who don't even want to be bothered, and probably won't vote.

So all of the anguished hand-wringing that went into the decision that vanquished Franken was for naught. Save for the temporary and ephemeral bragging rights it bestows upon the Democratic congress, it accomplishes exactly nothing for Democrats politically, and we need to understand that as we move forward.

So when Moore wins next Tuesday in Alabama, we shouldn't be surprised, nor should we wonder where all of the 'good' republicans went to. They will do what they always do, and have always done - vote with their cultural tribe, for the most part.

2018 will not be a war of ideas, it will be a war of attrition in which turnout determines outcomes, as it did in last month's Virginia primary. If Democratic enthusiasm remains strong, and if GOTV efforts are vigorous, we will win.

But let's stop pretending that appeals to Republican decency or consistency will have any effect on those races, or that Democrats can claim the 'high ground' in any of these contests, because we've already been dragged into the GOP swamp, where any perceived high ground is merely a cruel illusion.

I question the accuracy of your accounting of Trump's lies. I've been following them, and I come up with the figure of 11.837 lies per day. You've gotta pay closer attention.

Well, I am sure glad ya'all don't stoop to bigotry.. :D