Whoaa THAT was tortured..

Allow me to rephrase..

Further, I am on record as stating that what Franken did was, at WORST, crass and boorish (sound familiar??) and by such fact did not require his occupational execution....

267

Easy..

Roy Moore is NOT a child molester.. He is COMPLETELY innocent of ALL accusations..

Is that some sort of Star Trek reference? Heh...

https://orig00.deviantart.net/ce9a/f/2013/071/d/1/hoisted_by_his_own_picard_by_wytrab8-d5xv9z7.jpg

:D

OK, you can quibble about Moore, but Trump was indeed caught on tape (several times) bragging about sexual assault and sexual harassment. That, Jack, is a fact. Period.

Quibble??? It's the BEDROCK of our jurisprudence! A person is INNOCENT until PROVEN guilty in a court of law..

I hardly call that a "quibble"...

As to Trump, again, factually inaccurate. Trump was being boorish & crass in describing what gold-digging women *LET* women do...

If you would take Trump's statement into a court of law, you would be laughed out of court and the judge would likely find you in contempt for wasting the courts time..

Ya'all read into it what you WANT it to mean... That is all...

Got it. You believe any accusers against Democrats, but all accusers against Republicans are liars. Please explain again how you're supposed to somehow be independent?

I am not sure how your response relates to comment #49, but I'll answer it in general terms..

I am not the one who insists that ALL women are to be beleived.. That is ya'all's thing.. I am firmly on the record as stating that this #MeTOO stuff could lead to a very dark place where a woman scorned makes up all sorts of stuff and is automatically believed...

Further, I am on record as stating that what Franken did was, at WORST, crass and boorish (sound familiar??) and by did not require his occupational accusation..

This is the world that DEMOCRATS have created whereas the slightest innocent gesture of brush of body part to body part requires someone to fall on their sword..

Do you HONESTLY believe that Republicans are going to respond in kind??? The GOP is probably laughing their asses off at what Democrats did to their own..

I am not sure if that answers your question, but there it is..

262

Don't forget the original Puritan colonies here in America. They started out communitarian (not really communist, but then again the term hadn't been coined yet).

C. R. Stucki [34] -

OK, now this just seems appropriate:

Puritanism: The haunting fear that someone, somewhere, may be happy.
-H. L. Mencken

Heh.

Michale [36] -

Remember when it was the GOP that was claiming to be the party of family values and Dems used to ridicule them for it? Seems the tables have completely turned, these days, eh?

Heh. Couldn't resist.

Michale [37] -

Sling mud? I thought you were such a big fan of FACTS (as you'd put it) and all... name one thing wrong with what Franken said...

neilm [40] -

Excellent comment, especially the last bit. Just had to say that...

Michale [46] -

hoisted by your own Picard

Is that some sort of Star Trek reference? Heh...

Michale [48] -

OK, you can quibble about Moore, but Trump was indeed caught on tape (several times) bragging about sexual assault and sexual harassment. That, Jack, is a fact. Period.

Michale [49] -

Got it. You believe any accusers against Democrats, but all accusers against Republicans are liars. Please explain again how you're supposed to somehow be independent?

-CW

Quite right about the scale factor, tight social cohesion was viewed as vital from the very beginning. However, Kibbutz were not envisioned solely as economic engines but also as incubators of technical and leadership skills for a Jewish settlement that had little of either. Kibbutz proved highly successful as incubators for the state of Israel, but ultimately at a cost of stagnating the growth of the Kibbutz movement itself.

Ah... he he he... :D

256

Uh, I don't know - maybe it was a joke?

What's the problem???

I propose a new California State law that allows concealed carry laws specifically in the White House, the U.S. Senate and the U.S. House.

Uh... How is the STATE law going to be able to affect FEDERAL property???

Further, the proposed law states quite explicitly that those who carry MUST comply with all state laws...

So, I ask again..

What's the problem???

I propose a new California State law that allows concealed carry laws specifically in the White House, the U.S. Senate and the U.S. House.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/chrisladd/2017/12/07/please-raise-my-taxes/#5e25ed073042

So, when FORMER Senator Al FrakIt stated that, it WASN'T the "truth"... It wasn't ANYONE's "truth"...

At BEST, it was an opinion..

But it was most likely just a self-serving pitiful lie from a tortured soul who's ONLY crime was being frisky with women and getting fragged by his own side....

246

Soon To Be Senator Roy Moore is COMPLETELY innocent of all the accusations against him..

You see, in THIS country, we have this thing where people are INNOCENT until proven guilty in a court of law.

And I know, I know.. This is going to come as a REAL shock to you, but that EVEN APPLIES TO REPUBLICANS!!!

"OH MY GOD, WHAT A FUCKING NIGHTMARE!!!"
-Marisa Tomeii

But it's true.. It applies to Republicans whether you like it or not..

So, I'll say the FACT again, in case you missed it..

Soon To Be Senator Roy Moore is **COMPLETELY INNOCENT** of all accusations against him..

"These are the facts of the case. And they are undisputed."
-Captain Smilin' Jack Ross, A FEW GOOD MEN

245

Of course he was stating HIS truth..

But he wasn't stating any FACTS...

But you don't care about facts.. You don't even care about other people's TRUTH..

All you care about is YOUR truth..

And THAT is why the Demcorat Party is in the decimated shape it's in right now..

244

“I of all people am aware that there is some irony in the fact I am leaving while a man who has bragged on tape of his history of sexual assault is in the Oval Office, and a man who has repeatedly preyed on young girls has the full support of his party,”
-FORMER Senator Al FrakIt

I dunno WHY I expected FrakIt to leave with dignity and honor.. Of course, he had to sling mud and try and justify his behavior..."

Not mud slinging at all. Just stating the TRUTH, which I know you find so hard to handle, since you vehemently deny it on a wide range of subject matter all the time.

Nope, I'm with you.

Yet, that is EXACTLY the world ya'all have created.. Where even the simplest most inane gesture is worthy of "career" execution..

You people created the rules of warfare.. Now yer pissy because of the friendly fire..

What the frak did you THINK would happen!!!????

Did you HONESTLY think that yer frakin' DEMOCRAT politicians were actually good and pure and would NOT get caught up in yer hyper-politically correct net!???

Were ya'all THAT totally naive???

Well, ya'all got what ya'all wanted.. Except not EXACTLY the way ya wanted it.. YOUR politicians are dropping like flies.. Not the enemy..

I really have to laugh at how ya'all were hoisted by your own Picard...

243

The thing that would kill an effort to scale-up the Kibbutz model would not just be the numbers alone, so much as the ethnic diversity that would invariably be introduced. 10,000 Jews might work fine, but 5,000 Jews and 5,000 Palestinians likely would not.

Nope, I'm with you.

Maybe I'm just too old, you younger guys might not agree with that.

Those Amazon reviews are freakin’ hysterical! Some of the funniest things I have read in a while.

However in Israel, as applied at the Kibbutz level, a form of Communism worked quite well in providing a good, modern, standard of living for kibbutzniks and producing highly motivated over-achievers far out of proportion to their numbers in Israeli society.

I always thought that the Kibbutz model worked because it was a small enough group that peer pressure worked, and to an extent, everybody knew just about everybody else. The political models for groups of 100's do not scale up to millions, just as a plank across a stream won't scale up to the Golden Gate.

We can see the push back from the right - Michale exemplifies the "attack victims who accuse Republicans but wholeheartedly believe victims who accuse Democrats" mentality. We didn't expect anything else, this is just a tribal game for the right at the moment, with gloating rights the ultimate indicator of success, and to hell with decency.

On the left, the extreme is the other way - believe everybody and hold placing a hand on somebody's back during a photo at the same level as attacking a 14 year old.

This will be interesting. Sadly justice, perspective and right and wrong seems to be out of the picture at the moment.

Will Republicans pay a political price for their stance? Who knows?

Will Democrats decide to lower the purity test they are holding themselves to? Who knows?

There are many reasons to want Moore and 45 out of our government, the fact that they are sexual predators should be enough in itself, but as long as the right wing media can set the prevailing dialog based on our differences and social media strengthens our echo chambers, progress as a society will be slow.

Will we have another "Have you no sense of decency, sir? At long last, have you left no sense of decency?" moment? I certainly hope so.

Libertarians are so boring - they are the same as communists - full of great plans that have no real world value.

Politics is more than personal freedoms and personal finance - this is like saying in Tennis you hit a ball with a racket, in Baseball with a bat and in Soccer with your feet. Accurate in a perile sense but functionally useless.

And if you let everybody control all their money nobody would pay taxes and we'd destroy our economy, which basically has been successfully addressing the tragedy of the commons that you are idolizing.

I dunno WHY I expected FrakIt to leave with dignity and honor.. Of course, he had to sling mud and try and justify his behavior... :^/

240

Congrats, Democrats... In your hysterical quest to be uber-Politically Correct and Hyper-Woke, you take down 2 of yer own...

Bet that makes ya'all feel so warm and fuzzy, eh?? :^/

239

Upvote for #34.... :D

238

http://theeconomist.tumblr.com/post/10850810005/our-friends-at-the-atlantic-have-rediscovered-one

I basically agree with what you are saying, but I'd like to add a few things to the discussion.

The Theory of Communism never sought to equalize outcomes, the slogan of the theorists was roughly "from each according to their abilities, to each according to their needs." As practiced in the authoritarian USSR or Maoist China or Vietnam etc. it resulted in a well off party elite, an inefficient economy and a downtrodden everybody else looking over their shoulders. In other words, it failed in its stated objectives.

However in Israel, as applied at the Kibbutz level, a form of Communism worked quite well in providing a good, modern, standard of living for kibbutzniks and producing highly motivated over-achievers far out of proportion to their numbers in Israeli society.

The Kibbutz movement was always economically fragile and relatively inefficient, but it was a major force until the 1980s, when the Israeli economy was radically restructured to look more like the US. economy (surprise, surprise, big aid packages from you know who). That said, the movement is still a major player in Israel's agricultural sector and not insignificant in manufacturing. It is much less egalitarian in it's present form, but is still a communal society that is basically moderate and pragmatic enough to stay afloat after an economic sea change.

As for U.S. Libertarians, they have a left, right and center. The movement basically derives from progressive principles dating to The Enlightenment. I have a Libertarian streak myself, but I try and balance the duality of Liberty: Liberty To Do Something- Liberty From Something.

You people are the only ones who label me a Republican, even though I have provided FACTS that prove I am not..

So don't put your acts on me..

237

Here is some good advice on understanding how to learn about financial issues. The advice holds for political issues as well - they even use the same Munger quote as I did above but with more context.

http://www.collaborativefund.com/blog/how-to-read-financial-news/

Of course. And so you are maybe starting to understand that all of your hyper partisan posts are similar nonsense?

Charlie Munger says a prerequisite to having an opinion is stating the opposing side’s view as well as you can.

You display almost no understanding of either what Republicans stand for, let alone what Liberalism is.

In fact, I'd wager if you understood the basic tenets of Liberalism you'd start to get uncomfortable about labeling yourself a Republican (save us the nonsense that you "aren't a Republican", you're not kidding anybody except maybe yourself).

Your ideological framework seems underpinned by tribalism, and your delight in trolling on this site.

236

Because none of that is actually factual..

Unlike Democrats who rape and sexually assault left and right..

I know. You post your misunderstanding of Liberalism dozens of times a day on this blog.

Why you defend Republicans who only want to abuse little girls and take away food from the hungry is beyond me.

Sure sounds like Liberalism to me.. :D

Yea.. Liberals didn't go "silly" at all.. :^/

http://cdn.washingtonexaminer.biz/cache/1060x600-254731591619793e5858d4c7a6718a63.jpg

Whatever you have to tell yerself to make it thru the day.. :D

The Ayn Rand acolytes, most of whom like Paul Ryan gave up on structured thinking at 14 when they read "Atlas Shrugged", have simplified the World and society into a facile storyline that meets their emotional needs.

The fact that we have a tax policy based on this puerile approach to economics and sociology is the real failing of the Republican Party.

I expect more such troglodyte legislation from this Congress - unless, like the alternative to Obamacare, they can't even develop their thinking into an alternative plan.

Moore is going to fit nicely into this intellectual environment.

My favorite was also the most popular:

I think it tried to deport the figures in our nativity scene.

Thanks CRS. Appreciated.

Has the CBO scored these "tweaks" yet? As far as I can tell, the answer is no. So maybe these tweaks will turn to be "twerks?" Congress seems to make a frantic effort to stay a bit ahead of the CBO cycle time.

OHMYGAWD, that is the single most perceptive, most cogent analysis of political reality that ever eminated from the pen (keyboard?) of a liberal!!!

My heartiest congratulations!!!

Sorry, there seem to be unofficial ways to post with just mouse clicks...anybody else encounter this?

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WASHINGTON (Reuters) - President Donald Trump will face off with Democratic leaders of Congress on Thursday in a high-stakes White House meeting intended to bridge differences over a spending bill and prevent a government shutdown.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-congress-shutdown/trump-faces-off-with-democrats-over-potential-government-shutdown-idUSKBN1E11DU

Of course, ya'all are going to SUPPORT the Democrats in their efforts to shut down the government, right???

232

But if you're a small businessman or blue-collar worker worried about cost of living and with children to feed and educate, and who thinks little about identity issues, those charges grate on your nerves. Trump is your champion, not the lords in Congress. If Republicans don't follow his lead, more of them will share the fate of Sen. Jeff Flake, whose political career the President has called "toast."
http://www.cnn.com/2017/12/05/opinions/why-trump-is-winning-bauerlein/index.html

Yep... Yep...

We had an old saying in the teams.....

LEAD, FOLLOW OR GET THE HELL OUT OF OUR WAY

That's what patriotic Americans are saying today...

231

At this point in American history, moral preening is all about political power, not actually morals. Both parties engage in claiming moral high ground and the media more often than not lets Democrats claim it more easily than Republicans.
http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2017/12/06/roy-moore-is-going-to-win-his-senate-race-despite-democrats-phony-claim-moral-superiority.html

Yep... Yep....

228

Bloomberg News corrected Wednesday its bombshell report that special counsel Robert Mueller had subpoenaed Deutsche Bank records pertaining to President Donald Trump and his family.
http://dailycaller.com/2017/12/06/bloomberg-corrects-bombshell-trump-bank-records-story/

Once again, ya'all salivate over FAKE NEWS and then get yer asses handed to ya when it is PROVEN to be FAKE NEWS...

heheheheheheehehehehehe

Pretty good way to start my day.. :D

225

I think DH was being sarcastic.. :D

224

https://www.amazon.com/Trump-America-Great-Collectible-Ornament/dp/B01N67D8HO/

Have you not been reading the Friday columns, or what? I've been devoting each week's talking points to the tax issue for weeks, now.

-CW

Equalizing outcomes (communism) destroys individual striving, and unfettered greed (it's all mine, and I should keep it) destroys the social contract that gives people a reason to invest in their community.

As usual, the solution is messy - moderation results in winners and losers (the rich and the poor if using wealth as a measure) but ensures that the losers don't lose all hope from our society. A large underclass of hopeless people ferments unrest, violence, crime and revolution.

America suffers from higher violent crime rates than other similarly wealthy nations (https://www.statista.com/chart/3848/the-us-murder-rate-compared-to-other-countries/), so the approach in the current tax bill to increase inequality is a step in the wrong direction if we are trying to improve our society. If we are just focused on individual greed, this tax bill is a winner.

Everything you say is true, but irrelevent to my point.

As long as competition exists , the "lowly workers" are paid what the marketplace determins their contribution to the total effort is worth, and if the "lowly workers" disagree, they have an obligation to offer their time and talents to other employers.

However, if my 'top/bottom' and/or 'up/down' terminology offends you, we could adjust the semantics by inverting the traditional pyramid, and say the most productive folks are at the bottom and the least productive at the top. Regardless of the terminology, taxes by and large transfer wealth from the productive to the unproductive, regardless of how you construct the semantic pyramid, and the principle holds either way.

I only used the "top/bottom" and the "up/down" terminology the way I did because that is the traditional verbal construct for economics discussions such as this, and is the terminology CW used to get this discussion started.

It's ridiculous to characterize tax reductions as "Upward transfers of wealth". All wealth originates with the productive, kinda by definition, right?

I realize that, like most principles of economics, is over the heads of liberals, but that's how the real world avtually works!"

Actually that's NOT how the real world works. I know that's over the heads of most of you conservatives, but wealth is built from the ground up, not from the top down.

A corporate CEO would have no job, and nothing to manage, if not for the hundreds or thousands of lowly grunt workers toiling away at the very bottom in the sweat shops of his company. Neither would the Wall Street hedge fund manager have anything to do if not for the existence of some company somewhere. Even the Silicon Valley Computer tech would have nothing to profit from, if low somebody in some factory somewhere did not at least watch over the robot producing his widget.

And if all of those lowly workers were paid real livable wages, then everybody from the ground up would make money and be more wealthy, instead of only people at the top, since wealth ALWAYS percolates UPWARD and NEVER trickles DOWNWARD.

I realize that, like most principles of economics, is over the heads of liberals, but that's how the real world avtually works!

I'm happy to report the pledge drive has moved past the halfway point to our yearly goal. Woo hoo!

Thank-you emails will be forthcoming soon, for those who haven't gotten them yet.

:-)

-CW