Do you have ANY facts to refute Stucki's claim??

Yes.

Didn't think so...

Michale, you needn't keep reminding anyone on this site that you "don't think." The fact is, anyone who repeatedly and continually claims to have knowledge regarding what facts multiple persons on a blog might have is clearly and unequivocally someone who doesn't think. :)

Yep.. That's what these people simply do not get..

Even when confronted with the FACT that Hillary did the EXACT same thing...

Re "Mueller's prosecutorial Dream Team", you got that right. They definitely are dreaming if they think they can declare getting dirt on your political opponent as being illegal, regardless of the source.

Goods for redistribution always of necessity have to originate with the productive, kinda by definition, right? Therefore, the process of "redistributing from the poor and middle class to the rich" would need to properly be described or characterized as 're-redistribution', right?

JL

Who here wants to continue to defend Fraken???

Balthasar,

This is why it's not a good idea to jump on the LET'S DEFEND SOnSO bandwagon...

You just HAVE to know that there are more accusations waiting in the wings...

Since no such magical candidate is available, unless they begin acting, as Clinton did, as a party of the center rather than of the hard left, they could be setting themselves up for another astonishing defeat in 2020.
https://nypost.com/2017/11/20/dems-denounce-bill-clinton-but-need-to-recapture-his-working-class-appeal/

"She has no point. She often has no point. It's part of her charm."
-Tom Cruise, A FEW GOOD MEN

:D

As I am wont to do..

"WELCOME TO THE PARTY, PAL!!!"
-John McClane, DIE HARD

:D

Have you seen approval ratings for other world leaders, lately? Macron, Merkel, Theresa May? Worse than Trump. It's not a great year to be a politician.

Ach, good point!!

I seem to recall that Weigantians were claiming that Merkel was the leader of the free world.. She can't even form a government! :D

Trump has higher approval numbers than ALL of them!! :D

She has no facts.. That's why she made childish personal attacks..

Do you have ANY facts to refute Stucki's claim??

Any facts at all??

No???

Didn't think so...

Who here wants to continue to defend Fraken???

Repeating what the Bloomberg writer said: it's as if G.Gordon Liddy had subcontracted the Watergate break-in to the KGB.

I can draw the line with just one co-conspirator, Roger Stone:

Roger Stone cut his political teeth as a dirty-tricks operative for Richard Nixon, and has been a successful political operative ever since, specializing in opposition research. Stone and Trump have a long association, dating back to 2000, when he was Trump's campaign chairman for an abortive run for the nomination of the Reform Party. Stone's former business partner was Paul Manafort, later Trump's Campaign Chairman. Stone is also personal friends with Julian Assange, and claims to have communicated directly with the GRU hacker(s) in the guise of "Guccifer". It was Stone who hinted just before the hacked Podesta emails were leaked that it was "Podesta's turn in the barrel", a phrase he repeated just hours before Al Franken's first accuser went public.

So is this about free speech, or trafficking in stolen information? I'm guessing the courts would say the latter. Kick is right, parts of this run into counter-espionage and RICO statutes.

This one also got caught in the automatic filter, and has now been posted. Again, sorry for the delay...

-CW

First off, welcome to the site! My apologies for the delay in posting your comment, as first-time commenters are automatically held for moderation.

From now on, you should be able to post to the site instantly, as long as you don't post more than one link per comment. Multilink comments are also automatically held for moderation, which can take a while.

As for your comment, yes, DACA was always an executive order. Trump overturned this policy with his own EO. So it leaves it up to Congress to act, or else the whole thing will turn into a pumpkin. You're also right about the dubious legal standing of Obama's EO, which is also why congressional action is necessary. If it is a bill signed into law, that removes a lot of the dubiousness (even though it probably will be challenged in court).

Anyway, thanks for commenting, and sorry again for the delay.

-CW

Yeah, that's sounds superficially reasonable, except if you look up the definition of 'commodity', it all falls apart, right? Pretty tough to try to include information under that definition.

Can you imagine if the King’s carrier pigeons were captured mid-flight and had their messages copied and then re-released to finish their route by peasant hackers? I read on wiki that this exact scenario was what motivated Gutenberg to invent the printing press - so they could threaten to publish the stolen correspondences for the 1% of the population that could read to gawk at if the King didn’t give in to their demands.

Face it, the Founding Fathers could never have imagined the broad expansion that the definitions of their words would undergo when they wrote the Constitution. The 2nd Amendment is proof of that! But while the definitions may have broadened, the concepts behind their meanings remained the same. Any commodity that can be used to corrupt our democratic processes is illegal if it comes from a foreign power — whether it be gold bars or the mass release of fake news sites to millions of voters on Facebook.

Do you really think the founders had seeking advice, news, info, etc. in mind when they banned "contributions and donations"?? I'm betting they had MONEY in mind.

It'd be a real stretch to contend that their ban negated free speech rights.

I like your "potential crimes list," but you seemed to have inadvertently omitted RICO and espionage. :)

Am I making myself clear here?

Democrats are familiar with the law. Hell, Congress is pretty much a room full of lawyers. There has been a ban on contributions and donations from foreign governments or foreign nationals in federal elections since the 1970s. It is, however, possible to do opposition research overseas - it just matters how you do it. The Clinton campaign hired a contractor, Fusion GPS, who hired James Bond. That was legal. Then there's the way the Trump Campaign decided to do it.

Or as conservative Eli Lake of Bloomberg News puts it:"..when Russian hackers distributed stolen emails on the internet, they came from only one party: the Democrats. If Mueller finds evidence that this was coordinated with Trump or his associates, it would be like finding out G. Gordon Liddy subcontracted the Watergate burglary to the KGB."

And continue:"..consider the meeting in the summer of 2016 between Donald Trump Jr. and Russian nationals who reportedly offered to hand over dirt on Clinton. Noti said that if the Trump officials solicited the information, "the act itself was unlawful."

And that's not counting possible charges of money laundering, influence peddling, bribery, perjury, lying to Congress, lying to Federal Investigators, failure to disclose, making false statements, and of course, the classic original, Obstruction of Justice, all of which are options for Mueller's prosecutorial Dream Team.

Yeah, I get that "Fox News" thing a lot, but weirdly enough, I have no idea what it means. Where I live, Fox News is delivered over some sort of cable operation, and I only get TV by means of an old-fashioned antenna mounted atop the power pole behind my farmstead house.

I am familiar with Julius Rosenberg, but any allusion to what he has to do with consulting with Russians for political advice sailed right over my head.

If you wish to disagree with me about the legality/illegality of getting political mud from the
Ruskies on your opponent, specifics on that that would be far more interesting.

While grasping at Mueller straws in their desperation to find something that will get rid of Trump, the liberals seem to have overlooked the fact that it is NOT illegal to consult with Russians (or indeed, anybody else for that matter) to get dirt on your political opponents.

I'm not a liberal, but I'm still pointing and laughing. A prime example of what they mean when they say: "Your Brain on Fox News." I can't stop laughing. Keep these nuggets coming. :)

If Trump admitted publicly that he consulted with Russians, or Wikileaks, or anybody, Mueller couldn't do anything about it!

That's what Julius Rosenberg said. He had a code name too, just like "General Misha" Flynn. Say, whatever happened to General Misha's "Flynn Intel Group"? ;)

Really, John? You knew that William Bradley trekked up Africa's tallest peak?

While grasping at Mueller straws in their desperation to find something that will get rid of Trump, the liberals seem to have overlooked the fact that it is NOT illegal to consult with Russians (or indeed, anybody else for that matter) to get dirt on your political opponents.

What are you overlooking?

The liberals ... such a tired phrase you - and others, of course - are still using. It sounds so ... you know, yesterday.

The old political spectrums of right/left and conservative/liberal have little resonance these days.

The savvy among us have moved on to the past/future orientation where the up-side is enlightened and favours future-oriented policies that put and keep a nation on the cutting edge and moving forward.

Know any pols who fit that bill?

If Trump admitted publicly that he consulted with Russians, or Wikileaks, or anybody, Mueller couldn't do anything about it!

That's what ya'all said about Comey...

Right up to the point that you blamed him for costing Clinton the election.. :D

And, when Mueller won't indict Trump for anything because nothing is there, ya'all will turn on Mueller JUST like you turned on Comey..

Ya'all are nothing if not consistent...

That's what ya'all said about Comey...

Right up to the point that you blamed him for costing Clinton the election.. :D

And, when Mueller won't indict Trump for anything because nothing is there, ya'all will turn on Mueller JUST like you turned on Comey..

Ya'all are nothing if not consistent...

Mueller knows better than to try to sell some BS to the public. Whatever he comes up with will be air-tight.

Yes, sir. There are tapes, intercepts from allies, etc.

He's already landed some indictments, and at least one guilty plea. More to come.

Yep... indictments sealed and waiting as Mueller now moves into the inner circle of the White House armed with the answers. :)

Put it another way...

Of the two groups.. Left Wingers and Trump supporters...

Which are the more heavily armed and trained??

What? Brownshirts? Storm troopers? What do Herr Drumpf's drones have in mind?

Mueller knows better than to try to sell some BS to the public. Whatever he comes up with will be air-tight. He's already landed some indictments, and at least one guilty plea. More to come.

Reviewed your list of Trump "accomplishments" at [11], which I sincerely hope you pulled off of some rightie website, because I don't think your own spelling and formatting is really that atrocious (item 43 is a continuation of item 42, for instance).

To save space, I'll refer only to the item numbers, and let you cross-check back to it:

A. Originated or already underway during Obama Administration:

5, 6, 12, 14, 15, 16, 20, 25, 26, 32, 33, 34, 47, 52, 54

B. Purely aspirational:

22, 28, 29, 30, 35, 38, 40, 41, 42, 43, 45, 55

C. Especially Dubious claims

18, 23, 44, 48, 56, 57

D. Just Bad Ideas

3, 8, 9, 10, 19, 21, 24, 31, 36, 39

D. Actually Funny, when you think about it:

2, 27, 51, especially 46

E. DUH!

4, 11

F. HUH?

49

G. Credit where credit is due:

1, 7, 13, 17, 37, 50, 53, 58

This must be an older list because it doesn't include Trump SOLELY AND ON HIS OWN getting three college basketball players released from a Chinese jail!

"Creamed"?? Considering all the BLUE facts of Virginia, the mere fact it was so close is a testament to how bad the Democrat Party is losing ground..

Given THAT fact, it's amazing Trump hasn't been impeached yet.... But then, Mueller is only just getting started.

{{yyyaaawwwwwnnnnnnn}}

There is not a SINGLE SOLITARY FACT that even slightly indicates that a SINGLE Hillary vote was changed to a Trump vote...

Not a SINGLE SOLITARY SMIDGEN of a fact...

Keep dreaming sunshine.. Trump is going to be POTUS for 7+ more years..

And if there is even the slightest attempt of nullifying a free, fair and legal election by trumped up BS, there will be consequences...

And they won't be pleasant...

You missed the point of the piece, completely.

And in the 2017 Virginia election, Trump supporters got creamed at the polls and were nowhere to be seen, replaced by an energized and outraged Democratic base who outnumbered them.

Given THAT fact, it's amazing Trump hasn't been impeached yet.... But then, Mueller is only just getting started.

We haven't been formerly introduced..

Hi, I'm Michale..

"We haven't met yet.. I'm Clint.."
"I don't care..."
CAPTAIN AMERICA: CIVIL WAR

:D

U.S. presidents actually have virtually no control of most things, particularly economy-related things. For instance, the congress has sole control over spending money, but we always blame the pres. for deficits.

That's true, of course...

But around here, these people like to blame President Trump for EVERYTHING...

So it's only fair that he get the credit when the good things happen.. :D

Interesting article. It doesn't say anything I did not already know, and doesn't say anything I disagree with. In fact, it ends by asking the same question I was, "But will it be enough?" I.E. without formal U.S. government agreement and participation, and also of course, in a general sense, are we as a planet doing too little too late?

As the 2016 election proved beyond ANY doubt, Trump supporters ONLY do the poll at the ballot box...

Given that FACT, all the polls you love to quote are exclusively from hysterical NeverTrumpers being polled..

Given THAT fact, it's amazing President Trump has done so well....

1.) That is the only one I will give you.
2.) How so? Since Republicans control all 3 branches.
3.) Hillary would have took us out too. The TPP is going ahead without the USA, and China is now dominant in the region.
4.) Illegal immigration was falling anyway under Obama. Trump had nothing to do with it.
5.) Consumer confidence was rising under Obama.
6.) The economy was improving under Obama. Trump simply hasn't screwed it up yet.
7.) The lumber issue only complicated NAFTA negotiations, and Canad can appeal to the WTO, where it has always won.
8.) Bids is not the same as actually being built or funded by Congress,
9.) Assuming it even goes through and is not reversed, the USA will not actually pull out of the Paris accords until 2020 and after Trump leaves office.
10.) Keystone pipeline is still held up in the courts.
11.) Only 5 out of the 28 NATO nations have boosted spending, and they were doing so without Trump.
12.) VA was already being reformed. Trump did nothing new.
13.) Allowing private health care choices for Veterans has only passed the House, not Congress as a whole.
14.) Jobs were being created under Obama, the recovery has simply continued under Trump.
15.) Again, household income recovery started under Obama.
16.) Stock market started rising under Obama.
17.) China is also importing Australian beef. And only lifted the mad cow ban on USA beef after the USA agreed to import Chinese chicken. Funny how you don't mention that.
18.) Regulation rollbacks were on health and safety measures, which will end up costing more in the long run than what they save.
19.) Coal mining is still declining because it is being replaced by cheaper natural gas.
20.) Trump only continued Obama's military strategy against ISIS. He did not know better than the generals or have a secret plan like he boasted.
21.) Travel ban is still permanently blocked by the Federal Courts.
22.) Executive order for religious freedom everyone agrees was only a re-statement of already existing policy that had been in place for several years.
23.) Trump had done nothing for NASA, except appoint someone to head NASA who is not qualified to do so.
24.) Trump has only proposed to cut UN budget. Congress has not approved doing so.
25.) The FBI started targeting the gangs in 2004, long before Trump became President.
26.) Obama deported more illegal immigrants than any President before him. Trump still has to match Obama's record.
27.) Trump has not signed any major piece of legislation to date. He has signed many Executive orders, which is the same thing Obama did.
28.) I will give you that one.
29.) The commission on voter fraud has yet to issue a report, has not met in months, and appears to be dead in the water, as it has not even done anything active in months.
30.) But has yet to declare a nation emergency or free up enough money to actually do anything substantial on addiction.
31.) All state drug testing of the unemployed has been declared unconstitutional wherever it has been tried.
32.) Unemployment started falling under Obama and has simply continued.
33.) Historic Black Colleges called Trump tone deaf and found his initiative to be laughable.
34.) I will give you this one.
35.) I will give you this one as well.
36.) Reversal of Dodd-Frank passed the House but not the Senate yet. Doing so would allow another Lehman Brothers collapse fiasco.
37.) I will give you this one.
38.) Statement with no practical effect.
39.) End of DAPA results in making orphans of American citizen children.
40.) Companies are still moving out of America. No significant consequences enacted yet for doing so.
41.) and 42.) and 43.) Not anything different that other President's have been saying since Ronald Reagan urged companies to buy American.
44.) Remains to be seen.
45.) Remains to be negotiated. No changes yet to any existing trade agreements. So nothing accomplished.
46.) Repeat
47.) Again, economic recovery started under Obama continues regardless of what Trump has or has not done.
48.) Promised not the same as actually doing.
49.) I will give you this one. Minor potatoes.
50.) Proposed hug military budget increase will wipe out that savings many times over.
51.) Leaving many critical Federal government posts still vacant hampers American ability to operate effectively, especially in diplomatic realm.
52.) Trump tax cut proposal will wipe out any temporary budget surplus and plunge USA deeper into debt.
53.) I will give you that one.
54.) President has no effect on gas prices. Was true of Obama and is true of Trump.
55.) Another meaningless statement.
56.) Pure Bull shit.
57.) Outright Lie and falsehood.
58.) More bullshit

It's time you face reality Michale. Trump has the lowest approval rating of any President in history since measuring began. He is on track for the worst mid-term electoral defeat and will not win re-election.

The sooner you accept this reality fanboy, the better off you will feel....

We tend to give the incumbent pres. credit for all the good things that occur during his administration, and blame for all the bad things, and truth be known, he mostly has damn little to do with either.

U.S. presidents actually have virtually no control of most things, particularly economy-related things. For instance, the congress has sole control over spending money, but we always blame the pres. for deficits.

Here is a piece made especially for John M but, everyone should find it of interest:

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/the-transition-un-climate-summit-donald-trump-jerry_us_5a110297e4b0e6450602ebc9

US jobless claims fall as record run persists
AFP AFP•November 22, 2017
Washington (AFP) - New claims for US jobless benefits fell in mid-November, confirming the strength of American labor markets and continuing a record streak of low levels, official data showed Wednesday.

Data were collected during the survey week for the Labor Department's monthly jobs report.
https://www.yahoo.com/news/us-jobless-claims-fall-record-run-persists-140437347.html

Making America Great Again

What has Trump done exactly? Other than sign some meaningless Executive orders

I am REALLY glad you asked that.. :D

NUMBER ONE ACCOMPLISHMENT
Kept Hillary Clinton from being elected POTUS..
2.Broke the stranglehold of Political Partys on DC
3.He took us out of TPP
4.Illegal immigration is now down 70% (the lowest in 17 years)
5.Consumer confidence highest since 2000 at index125.6
6.Mortgage applications for new homes rise to a 7 year high.
7.Arranged 20% Tariff on soft lumber from Canada.
8.Bids for border wall are well underway.
9.Pulled out of the lopsided Paris accord.
10.Keystone pipeline approved.
11.NATO allies boost spending by 4.3%
12.Allowing VA to terminate bad employees.
13.Allowing private healthcare choices for veterans.
14.More than 600,000. Jobs created
15. Median household income at a 7 year high.
16. The Stock Market is at the highest ever In its history.
17. China agreed to American import of beef.
18. $89 Billion saved in regulation rollbacks.
19. Rollback of A Regulation to boost coal mining.
20. MOAB for ISIS
21. Travel ban reinstated.
22. Executive order for religious freedom.
23. Jump started NASA
24. $600 million cut from UN peacekeeping budget.
25. Targeting of MS13 gangs
26. Deporting violent illegal immigrants.
27. Signed 41 bills to date
28. Created a commission on child trafficking
29. Created a commission on voter fraud
30. Created a commission for opioids addiction.
31. Giving power to states to drug test unemployment recipients.
32. Unemployment lowest since may 2007.
33. Historic Black College University initiative
34. Women In Entrepreneurship Act
35. Created an office or illegal immigrant crime victims.
36. Reversed Dodd-Frank
37. Repealed DOT ruling which would have taken power away from local governments for infrastructure planning
38. Order to stop crime against law enforcement.
39. End of DAPA program.
40. Stopped companies from moving out of America.
41. Promoted businesses to create American Jobs.
42. Encouraged country to once again
43. ‘Buy American and hire American
44. Cutting regulations 2 for every one created.
45. Review of all trade agreements to make sure they are America first.
46. Apprentice program
47. Highest manufacturing surge in 3 years.
48 $78 Billion promised reinvestment from major businesses like Exxon, Bayer, Apple, SoftBank, Toyota…
49. Denied FBI a new building.
50. $700 million saved with F-35 renegotiation.
51. Saves $22 million by reducing white house payroll.
52. Dept of treasury reports a $182 billion surplus for April 2017
(2nd largest in history.
53. Negotiated the release of 6 US humanitarian workers held captive in egypt.
54. Gas prices lowest in more than 12 years.
55. Signed An Executive Order To Promote Energy Independence And Economic Growth
56. Has already accomplished more to stop government interference into people’s lives than any President in the history of America.
57. President Trump has worked with Congress to pass more legislation in his first 100 days than any President since Truman.
58. Has given head executive of each branches 6 month time Frame dated march 15 2017, tortured trim the fat. restructure and improve efficacy of there branch.

It's time for you to face reality, people...

Despite all your predictions and fear-mongering, President Donald Trump is on track to a major landslide re-election in 2020....

The sooner you accept this reality, the better you will feel....

What has Trump done exactly? Other than sign some meaningless Executive orders.

Literally nothing in the way of major legislation.

You can't obstruct something that not even the other party (Republicans) can get their act together on.

Exactly right. There's literally been no major legislation to obstruct. Republicans agreeing with Democrats that taking away health care from millions of their constituents is bad legislating is not exactly an exercise in obstructing just to obstruct. Donald Trump made a lot of campaign promises regarding health care and failed to deliver legislation that came anywhere near matching his rhetoric; in fact, it wasn't even anywhere close. The main obstruction to enacting Trump's agenda is Trump himself and a handful of Senate Republicans not willing to allow Trump to screw their constituents.

Why should Democrats obstruct something when Republicans are doing it for them to themselves and their own legislation?

Exactly. Tune in next week when Trump repeats his claim that "the rich will not be gaining at all with this plan." *LOL*

"And Democrats obstruct everything Trump does for the same reason..

What's yer point??"

What's your point?

What has Trump done exactly? Other than sign some meaningless Executive orders.

You can't obstruct something that not even the other party (Republicans) can get their act together on. Why should Democrats obstruct something when Republicans are doing it for them to themselves and their own legislation?

And Democrats obstruct everything Trump does for the same reason..

What's yer point??

Yep.. yep.. yep...

But, this isn't the time to point out FACTS, S2...

This is ONLY the time to bash Republicans and ignore the FACT that the Democrat Party is no better...

Get with the program, dood!!! :D

According to who???

Chuck and Nancy... Not the most reliable of sources...

If Pelosi plays hardball on the issue, then Democrats will withhold their support for any budget bill that doesn't include a clean DACA fix, and we could be headed towards a Yuletide government shutdown.

And, of course, ya'all will support that government shutdown, right?? :D

One thing is for sure..

We do live in interesting times.. :D

Think about how truly crazy that is! A party puts forth legislation that it believes will benefit their constituents, they make sure that they dotted all of their “i”’s and crossed their “t”’s, and then they get word that the president is in full support of the bill and plans on signing it into law as soon as they get it to him... so they tank it!!!

The Republican Party demonstrated that they were not concerned with political philosophies; they were not using this bill as leverage to get something else they wanted, they simply did not want Obama to get credit for signing a good piece of legislation into law! More than anything, they demonstrated that they do not give a damn about doing what was best for their constituents or this country.

The Republicans couldn’t allow Obama to sign legislation that would contradict their mantra that he was trying to destroy our country.

One has to wonder what the rest of the hundred Senators not directly involved in whatever is the topic du jour do with their time.

Oh, right, they're across the street on phone lines raising funds.

Go for it, DonH! I'm all in this time.

They have NO IDEA how to work with the Democrats to get the details hashed out so that a bill is acceptable by both sides. Many of those that came into Congress as Tea Party candidates were elected thanks to their commitment to NOT work with Democrats (or with any Republican that doesn’t completely agree with every position they hold!) They were elected to prevent bill’s from passing, and they got really good at doing that job.

What is being asked of these Republicans is similar to if you asked a Major League Baseball pitcher who was a lefty to start pitching using their right arm: You might find one who is able to adapt, but most people cannot make that dramatic of a change in how they do their job!