Actually, I was talking about the NFL, not the owners.

*LOL*

You said, and I quote: OK, so here's what I don't get... The NFL won't order their employees to stand for the anthem because it takes away their so-called Right to Free Speech...

So if you're not talking about the owners there, exactly who is it that you're referring to that "won't order their employees"? Who is it that you think actually makes the rules in the NFL?

Let me put that in perspective for you: Congress will not order the repeal of the ACA... I was not talking about the legislators; I was talking about Congress.

YOU brought up the owners, saying that they are Republicans and that they CAN'T be using liberal logic..

You said you didn't understand and whined about the NFL not ordering their employees to do something, and I agreed you didn't understand if you actually thought a group that was made up of almost entirely Republicans represented the thinking of liberals.

I pointed out that they are NOT acting like Republicans because what kind of Republican would make such bad business decisions as to let their players shit on the country.

In answer to your question: Donald Trump. There's a reason I call him "Benedict Donald." Whatever your definition of a "Republican" used to be is long gone, and as I have already stated above, if you think a silent protest is the equivalent of "shitting on the country" while you ignore the fact that Donald Trump wears and sells a hat that insinuates that America isn't already a great country (in all capital letters), then you just might be a Drumpf Drone (props again to Balthy).

The 6.3 percent slump — worsening from comparable declines of 5.6 to 5.7 percent during the previous three weeks — plagued a week whose off-the-field drama made gridiron tackling seem almost tame by comparison.
https://nypost.com/2017/11/22/the-nfl-ratings-slump-is-getting-worse/

It's really simple..

Order your employees to quit shitting on the flag, the anthem, the military and the country or the hemorrhaging will continue and accelerate...

Actually, I was talking about the NFL, not the owners.

YOU brought up the owners, saying that they are Republicans and that they CAN'T be using liberal logic..

I pointed out that they are NOT acting like Republicans because what kind of Republican would make such bad business decisions as to let their players shit on the country.. Ergo, they are using "liberal logic"...

Face the facts, sweetie...

You're wrong and I am right...

Uh... THE OWNERS...

Which is who you were talking about...

It's actually you who were talking about the owners and accusing them of "liberal logic" when they're obviously exactly the opposite and contemplating censorship in order to appease Trump and his cult of personality drones who suddenly are concerned with NFL profits.

I said it before, and I'll say it again. If the players on the sidelines wanted to show some real "respect" to America, they could cease with the silent protests and wear those red Trump campaign hats that insinuate in all capital letters that America isn't a great country, and as Paula rightly points out, they could also prove how much they respect the American flag by waving their confederate battle flags that so many of the Trump followers favor. /sarcasm off

Uh... THE OWNERS...

Which is who you were talking about...

And yet, the vast majority of these "Republican 1%" owners are allowing their employees to shit on the flag, the military and the national anthem. And, in doing so, costing their brand HUNDREDS of MILLIONS in lost revenue...

Yea.. THAT is logical...

So what? Who gives a hang about the NFL "brand" and how many dollars the owners lose? Did you give two shirts about it before Trump encouraged you to pick sides? You're allowing Benedict Donald to push your buttons and con you still.

[Spoken in your best Jeff Foxworthy drawl]: If you've bought "all-in" to the utter nonsensical fantasy that football players kneeling in silent protest during the part of a football game that most people don't even watch is the equivalent of "shitting on the flag, the military and the national anthem," you might be a "Drumpf Drone" (props to Balthy for that one). :)

Which is EXACTLY what the Dumbocrats did in the 2016 election and is still doing so today..

Funny how you don't have a problem with the Dumbocrats doing it...

Funny how you don't have a problem making up utter BS about posters on a chat board, and all you've demonstrated is your willingness to make stuff up and your ever present reliance on whataboutism. :)

The END of the Clintons!!!

Bummer.. I was really hoping she would run again in 2020... heh :D

BY ABBY LIVINGSTON NOV. 22, 2017 12:21 PM
https://www.texastribune.org/2017/11/22/us-rep-joe-barton-deciding-how-respond-after-graphic-photo-circulates-/

And Republicans are not immune from doing stoopid stuff...

Yea, but they can't seem to keep their hands to themselves or their wee-wees in their pants.. :D

Your Democrats are going to have to go ONE DEMAND in 2018 because all of yer donors are going to be toxic... :D

Dream on, Drumpf Drone. Plenty more where they came from.

Glenn Thrush of The New York Times, Charlie Rose of CBS, author Mark Halperin, NBC’s Matthew Zimmerman, NPR’s Michael Oreskes, Vox’s Lockhart Steele, the New Republic’s Hamilton Fish and the Atlantic’s Leon Wieseltier have all been suspended or fired in the last month over varying degrees of alleged harassment or assault.
http://thehill.com/homenews/media/361422-harassment-allegations-shake-political-media

The decimation of the propaganda arm of the Democrat Party...

YES!!!!!!

And yet, the vast majority of these "Republican 1%" owners are allowing their employees to shit on the flag, the military and the national anthem. And, in doing so, costing their brand HUNDREDS of MILLIONS in lost revenue...

Yea.. THAT is logical...

Trump is using the NFL to create division and encourage people to pick sides, and this concludes today's lesson in "Fascism 101: Divide and Conquer."

Which is EXACTLY what the Dumbocrats did in the 2016 election and is still doing so today..

Funny how you don't have a problem with the Dumbocrats doing it...

OK, so here's what I don't get...

Left Winger liberal "logic" at work...

You're right; you really don't get it if you actually believe that the NFL, a group that consists almost entirely of Republican owners belonging to the 1%, is an example of "liberal logic" when it is demonstrably exactly the opposite.

Trump is using the NFL to create division and encourage people to pick sides, and this concludes today's lesson in "Fascism 101: Divide and Conquer." Tune in next week to "Fascism 101: Distraction," when we'll discuss authoritarianism and keeping the masses divided against each other so they won't notice how badly you're screwing them and unite against you. :)

TRUMP IS TOAST Prediction #28,901

yyaaaawwwwmnnnnnnn

Yes, your mischaracterization of posters' comments and regurgitating the same one-note argument over and over is rather tiresome; good of you to let us know you're boring to yourself as well. I didn't say Trump was toast; I said he was going to get his turn when all the dust settles, and I was talking about his accusers who will not be silent and are in court against him even now.

Shocker... Collective group-think....

People agreeing on one issue isn't "collective group-think." For an illustration of group-think, please refer to the Trump cult of personality of which you belong to wherein Trump can do no wrong because of your worship and whataboutism. :)

OK, so here's what I don't get...

The NFL won't order their employees to stand for the anthem because it takes away their so-called Right to Free Speech...

So, to solve the problem the NFL is considering taking away EVERY employees' right to freedom of expression...

Left Winger liberal "logic" at work...

If the NFL thinks that this is going to stave off the MASSIVE bad publicity and MASSIVE loss of revenue... The NFL doesn't know it's target audience at all...

What with Hollywood Dem Donors dropping like flies....

One has to wonder where the Dems are going to get money to finance their 2018 campaigns..

Maybe One Demand will finally come into it's own.. :D

Yep... Yep... Yep....

Whatever you have to tell yourself to make it thru your day.. :D

I know better...

The fact that the Democrat responded to the accusations properly and with humility while one Republican chose to attack and humiliate women

Of course the Democrat did.. Democrats are pure as the driven snow...

:^/

Yer so transparent...

TRUMP IS TOAST Prediction #28,901

yyaaaawwwwmnnnnnnn

I agree with Paula and Balthy.

Shocker... Collective group-think....

A former scheduler for the Democratic congressman said she faced daily harassment from him, in a suit she later abandoned after a court denied her request to keep it sealed. A BuzzFeed News investigation on Monday showed that Conyers had settled a sexual harassment complaint with another former staffer.
https://www.buzzfeed.com/paulmcleod/another-woman-accused-rep-john-conyers-of-sexual-harassment?utm_term=.wyy9mLA26w#.mcyyYp4vkb

HA!

We're gonna get rid of 2 Democrat CongressCritters!!! :D

Didn't any one see the recent re-branding message of the GOP to the party of OPP?

So the GOP will now become the party of Old Pedophiles and Pederasts; they will be using the Naughty by Nature song O.P.P. to appeal to a wider audience to bring them into a tent...

So, to sum up...

And the fact that Franken is a Democrat and Moore and Trump are Republicans has NOTHING to do with your assessment, right???

No, it is the fact that Franken apologized directly with his one accuser for his actions while Moore and Trump have not only refused to apologize; they have actively attacked the reputations of their accusers — that has EVERYTHING to do with my assessment!!!

The fact that the Democrat responded to the accusations properly and with humility while one Republican chose to attack and humiliate women that had simply corroborated his pussy grabbing claims and the other Republican chose to humiliate and trash women he won’t directly deny having asked out when the women were teenagers is why they should be treated differently! That there is an (R) after the names of the two we should be most critical of is sadly not shocking to anyone!

Paula, Balty, & Kick:

It’s nice to see so many of us on the same page with this one.

Preach. Amen, brother. :)

Not sure who will be "next," but Benedict Donald is going to get his turn when all the dust settles. Poor Donald has gone and admitted to peeping at underage teens in various states of undress when he was owner of the Miss Teenage America pageant... and a host of other admissions. He also owns a modelling agency where a whole lot of teens who worked for him are beginning to speak up. Those women Trump promised to sue have gone nowhere, and Donald is being sued by one of them as we speak, with who knows what's ahead? He's already paid off one accuser named Jill Harth, and she's gone nowhere either.

I agree with Paula and Balthy. I also think a problem with the #MeToo exercise is the false equivalency and assuming that everyone that speaks up is telling the truth, and I don't give a hang what political party someone belongs to... I'm not taking anyone's word regardless. Anyone regardless of party affiliation who is being accused better have an accuser who is willing to prove their case.

Bill Clinton and Donald Trump: Old news. Clinton no longer president, Trump president. I don't believe all the women who accused Clinton because I know who pays some of them to lie. I definitely believe enough of them to label Clinton an abuser regardless of the ones who are paid to embellish their stories. Trump is an admitted abuser, bragged several times about it and has paid off an accuser. Clinton and Trump used to be "friends" and share "friends" who can bury them both and it's sickening. Enough said.

Dennis Hastert: Old news. Proof he is a pervert is now obvious.

Newt Gingrich: More old news. Obvious hypocrite and stay tuned. Would not surprise me if some of Newt's victim's started singing. We'll see.

Roy Moore: Old news. Roy liked them young, but the age of consent in Alabama is 16. What he did with the 14-year-old child is inexcusable, and I believe her story but not all of Roy's accusers. Body language gives some of them away. Perhaps the 14-year-old lied about her age? Regardless of all that, Roy would be a lousy Senator because he's already been thrown off the Alabama high court for refusing to follow the law. I hope Roy wins, though, because that would be awesome for reasons I won't enumerate. Enough said.

Al Franken: His accuser admitted that she agreed to "practice the kiss." He did nothing without her consent in that regard, but it was pretty stupid taking the picture where he pretends to touch her through the flak jacket. Had he actually touched her, she would have felt nothing through the jacket. Stupid but hardly worth resigning over. Franken's accuser also said that she regrets that she did that skit over and over through the entire run of that USO tour. She consented to something that she wishes in retrospect that she hadn't agreed to do. I would say that describes a whole lot of us. In my opinion, her story is embellished (body language).

Who else? Might it be easier to list who is NOT next?

Paula: Not saying Dems won't be found who are guilty. If John Conyers is, he is. If there was a settlement, there was. There are others, from both parties. If they leak ONE then they have to leak them all. ALL.

I agree... leak them ALL... both parties and more than one POTUS. Trump/Bannon/Stone and their ilk will be clinging tightly to their whataboutism as if it excuses their actions, and it's going to get really cold because winter is coming. :)

And ANOTHER Democrat goes down in flames...

You mean, the ALLEGED behavior of Moore..

and the admitted assaults of Trump

What "admitted" assaults would those be???

So, to sum up...

Franken's behavior is simply boorish..

Moore and Trump should be taken out and shot..

And the fact that Franken is a Democrat and Moore and Trump are Republicans has NOTHING to do with your assessment, right???

Com'on, Balthy...

I was born *AT* night...

Not LAST night...

I certainly never said "all women are to be believed". My own brother was once falsely accused by a girl who later admitted that she was just trying to break up his relationship with a rival.

But I think that if we're going to seriously have this debate that some distinction must be made between seriously criminal behavior, boorish behavior, and merely awkward situations.

Franken's behavior is probably in the latter category, at worst in the 'boorish' category. He absolutely shouldn't resign for such petty alleged offenses.

But the behavior of Moore, and the admitted assaults of Trump fit into the 'criminal' category, and should be assessed accordingly by voters.

As for the GOP, as Paula said the other day, given their history, no dirty trick seems to low for them to consider, so anything that emanates from those quarters should be taken with a mountain of salt.

So, in other words.. ALL WOMEN ARE TO BE BELEIVED...

EXCEPT women that work for Fox News and/or voted for Trump..

Of course, that exception doesn't apply when women who work for Fox News and/or voted for Trump are accusing someone with a -R after their name..

THEN they join the ranks of the TO BE BELIEVED women..

I wish you could take a step back from your hysterical religious-esque Party zealotry and see how utterly and completely ridiculous you sound....

Repubs just don't want to let go of their favorite punching bag. Maybe they need therapy.

And no one on the networks has yet broached the question of how Roger Stone happened to know before the fact that the Franken accusations were coming.

Looks like another 'dirty tricks' operation in progress to me, an effort to establish a false equivalence, and to take down a liberal threat.

An Alabama sheriff claims Doug Jones molested him as a child. On Facebook, where no doubt it was shared like crazy. Then he claims he was being sarcastic.

This idiot "retracted" his "sarcasm" but the accusation will probably be floated all over rightwing web outlets, etc. He's been suspended.

The floodgates have been opened for women with genuine complaints to come out. Rightwing operatives found a perfect opening for their dirty tricks.

They can only win by cheating.

Fine.. Then we can ignore the Moore accusation that occurred almost FORTY years ago....

Are you of the opinion that ACCUSED = GUILTY when the person has a -R after their name???

Nope. Every case is different and should be judged on its own merits. When what a person is being accused of is criminal, then those accusations definitely deserve closer scrutiny! If they aren’t criminal, then it really shouldn’t matter.

Franken’s actions were not criminal, and that is based solely on what these women have accused him of doing! The kiss he gave, while rehearsing a scene in a skit that called on Franken to kiss her, was rougher than she liked. She says she was unaware that he was going to kiss her — so I guess sometimes the pretty ones really are stupid as the script called for him to kiss her!

This is nothing but the GOP’s attempts to destroy the political career of someone that scares the crap out of them!

And drop the “ButwhataboutBillClinton” blubbering! If you want to talk about things that occurred 30 years ago that do not involve anyone currently in politics, we can talk about that AFTER we get finished discussing things that are presently in the news.

Moore was the prosecutor in the town where he was accused of trolling for teenie-boppers. He’s running for office. He claims to be a “Christian warrior”, but there is nothing about the man that I would call Christ-like except his gender!

His campaign has compared the accusations he is facing to the persecution that Jesus Christ faced. The unbelievably massive arrogance they show in attempting to draw comparisons between the two just makes me hope they get their wish....with both stories ending the same way!

How about the congressmen should be kicked out of office, and made to pay the claims with their OWN money!!

Huffington had her own issues with her staff committing sexual assaults and sexual harassments..

She did nothing about it...

Arianna Huffington Ignored Sexual Misconduct at The Huffington Post
https://gizmodo.com/arianna-huffington-ignored-sexual-misconduct-at-the-huf-1820389889

The Party is over, Democrats....

The article is about a hit-job in the New York Post that used images from a skit Al and Ariana were in on Bill Maher. They LOOK bad until you get the explanations. Ariana says it's bullshit and explains the skit.

Republicans/Bannonites/Trumpers are going to gin up accusations everywhere they can. That's what they do. They accuse, accuse, accuse. Gotta try to even things up! Roy Moore calls teenagers in Trig class and is so sleezy girls hide from him at the mall so gotta find a Dem.

Dems must NOT lay down for this.

Not saying Dems won't be found who are guilty. If John Conyers is, he is. If there was a settlement, there was. There are others, from both parties. If they leak ONE then they have to leak them all. ALL.

And HELL is coming with me!!! :D

. I want EVERY NAME of Congressmen/Senators who have paid off victims. ALL OF THEM.

Michigan Rep. John Conyers, a Democrat and the longest-serving member of the House of Representatives, settled a wrongful dismissal complaint in 2015 with a former employee who alleged she was fired because she would not “succumb to [his] sexual advances.”

The response from Weigantians??

{{{cchhhirrrrrpppppp}}} {{{ccchhhirrrrpppppp}}}

AND we want every woman BLOTUS attacked to be able to tell her story to the world again and this time be heard. WE heard them last year.

Yea, and it's funny how they ALL disappeared once Trump won the election...

Funny how that is, eh??? :D

Only Al Franken has been willing, so far, to hold public hearings.

Yea, that was when ONE woman complained...

Now we have two... He has been silent since the 2nd one popped up...

AND we want every woman BLOTUS attacked to be able to tell her story to the world again and this time be heard. WE heard them last year. Blotus called them all liars. And, of course, Bannonites are trying to muddy the waters re: Roy Moore. Only Al Franken has been willing, so far, to hold public hearings.

Key word being ACCUSED.....

Are you of the opinion that ACCUSED = GUILTY when the person has a -R after their name???

What high ground?

Yea, I agree.. The Democrat Party lost the moral high ground with Bill CLinton and never got it back..

Good point...

It's that simple...

What high ground? Donald Trump and the entire GOP Congress make me feel gross every day! If that’s all it takes to get rid of someone, I will gladly pack Franken’s luggage for him!

Moore doesn’t deny going out with high school girls — he admitted to doing so with the disclaimer that it was always with the parent’s permission! His bride was 14 years younger than him when he married at 38yo. He is accused of giving underaged girls alcohol and sexually molesting them.

Moore used to always claim that homosexuals were child molesters. I wonder if that was his way of trying to come out?

Moore doesn’t deny going out with high school girls — he admitted to doing so with the disclaimer that it was always with the parent’s permission! His bride was 14 years younger than him when he married at 38yo. He is accused of giving underaged girls alcohol and sexually molesting them.

Moore used to always claim that homosexuals were child molesters. I wonder if that was his way of trying to come out?

Moore doesn’t deny going out with high school girls — he admitted to doing so with the disclaimer that it was always with the parent’s permission! His bride was 14 years younger than him when he married at 38yo. He is accused of giving underaged girls alcohol and sexually molesting them.

Moore used to always claim that homosexuals were child molesters. I wonder if that was his way of trying to come out?

I would say it was more like a smoke alarm with a snooze button that got hit a bunch of times by a drowsy Murdoch. He ultimately got out in time, but you could argue this snooze function ultimately killed Roger Ailes, while O'Reilly is still suffering from smoke inhalation and working out of his neighbor's garage. Murdoch collected the insurance (minus a sizeable deductible) and is repairing his damaged network.

SNL could make an amusing Farmers Insurance Hall of Claims commercial out of this incident("We know a thing or two because we've seen a thing or two").

The woman said her butt cheek was grabbed tightly..

I thought all women were to be believed..

I guess it's only women who accuse Right Wingers are the women to be believed...

That wasn’t sexual harassment; that was someone tired of having to pose in group photos every few minutes!

The woman says different...

Al Franken should NOT step down, because he has done nothing that warrants that! The first incident was him being immature and occurred prior to him running for Congress. Nothing he did came anywhere close to being a violation of law. Chris, I am disappointed that you are suggesting that he should resign.

If Franken doesn't step down, the Democrat Party loses the moral high ground...

It's that simple...

Wrong holiday.

Heh.

I cannot remember many group photos where someone wasn’t trying to squeeze people in as close as possible. This wasn’t Franken trying to get a cheap thrill, it was a freaking photo! That wasn’t sexual harassment; that was someone tired of having to pose in group photos every few minutes!

Al Franken should NOT step down, because he has done nothing that warrants that! The first incident was him being immature and occurred prior to him running for Congress. Nothing he did came anywhere close to being a violation of law. Chris, I am disappointed that you are suggesting that he should resign.

Personally, I think it looks like the GOP is trying to make sure that Franken won’t try for the White House in 2020!

{ssiiigghhhhh}

I am always gabberflasted at the snowflakes ability to actually BRAG about being pussies and having to create safe spaces to avoid hearing the facts that they don't like to hear...

But hay.. If they want to cede the rhetorical battlefield to me because they have nothing in their intellectual arsenal??? Far be it from me to stop them..

I just marvel that the actually BRAG about their impotence.. :D

Paula-2

Every case is unique. There is a lot of faux equivalency being made. In reality, there is a continuum of boorish to misdemeanor to felony. Punishment ought to fit the infraction. Maybe the best way to deal with this would be something along the lines of a truth and reconciliation commission.

My comments are not intended to condone or minimize sexual harrassment/predation in the workplace or any other place. Greater sexual equality in thw work force could reduce the problem - or it might just make for greater equalty among predators. We'll see.

Melania Trump???

WOW... That's pretty low.. Even by Weigantian standards...

Women, you have collaborators in your ranks.

I happen to agree with this...

Rose McGowan is being touted from the Left as "brave" and a "hero"...

But let's look at what she really did.. She took a 100K bribe and a career boost to ignore the problem.. And, in doing so, she aided and abetted 2 more decades of Weinstein victimizing hundreds more women...

That's not the actions of a brave hero.. That's the actions of a selfish, greedy and perversely corrupt scumbag...

Becoming a victim is usually NEVER a choice...

CONTINUING to be a victim almost always is...

One thing that doesn't get mentioned is that some women are only too happy to take the sexual escalator to a bigger house. *. The White House is currently home to one. If I ever had a male boss that didn't take on a wife one generation younger than he - well I can't remember one. It was/iscommon to the point of normalacy. Women, you have collaborators in your ranks.

* The male climber is no exactly unheard of, but less common due to male dominated power structure.

Oh I dunno.. It might be like ripping off a band-aid.. Doing it all real quick to get it over with.. hehehehe

Thanx, Liz.. :D

We have a LOT to catch up on...

That may be true, Chris. But, it won't impact the up-wing gang. They'll just move on and get things done.

:-)

Hey, what time is it? :)

"Welcome to the party, pal."

Hehehehehe Thanx :D

Imagine how different the political landscape would be..

It's entirely likely that the Democrat Party would not be now up Shitz Creek......

http://www.flatwaterkayaker.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/musky-paddle_6.jpg

...... without a paddle...

ROY MOORE!!!! ROY MOORE!!!! ROY MOORE!!!!

..... lets lay down the facts...

1. A 40 year old accusation...

2. Mere weeks before a major election....

3. Moore was a Democrat when he was mall-shopping for young girls...

But, by all means.... Bring up Roy Moore.. :D

Lindsay Menz told CNN last week for a report broadcast Monday that the interaction with the Minnesota senator made her feel “gross.” She said she immediately told her husband that Franken had “grabbed” her bottom and that she posted about it on Facebook.

It's funny how, when it's a Democrat accused, people here want "a case to be made"...

When it's a Republican accused, the mere accusation is all the case that needs to be made...

Funny how that is, eh?? :D

Documents from the complaint obtained by BuzzFeed News include four signed affidavits, three of which are notarized, from former staff members who allege that Conyers, the ranking Democrat on the powerful House Judiciary Committee, repeatedly made sexual advances to female staff that included requests for sexual favors, contacting and transporting other women with whom they believed Conyers was having affairs, caressing their hands sexually, and rubbing their legs and backs in public. Four people involved with the case verified the documents are authentic.
https://www.buzzfeed.com/paulmcleod/she-complained-that-a-powerful-congressman-harassed-her?utm_term=.hcyxv7eBV1#.gl6Gye8NL7

The only relevant question today is this..

Will the Democrat Party survive....

I don't agree with doing the GOP's work for them, especially when it comes to character assassination.

As a fan and supporter of Al Franken I need the case to be made, not via back and forths in the media. I want a real hearing and i want Al to be able to defend himself. THEN I'LL decide.

Al is willing to undergo an examination. I (and many, many people) think he should do exactly that. Paul Waldman had a piece up at WaPo saying Franken should resign and Greg Sargeant tweeted it. The responses were 99% "no". Al Franken's situation is, at this point, unique. We want our hearing.

Roy Moore isn't willing to do that. Donald Trump isn't willing to do that.

Louis C.K. admitted his accusers were telling the truth. Apparently so has Charlie Rose, and Mark Halperin and several others.

As to the larger point, yes, I fully expect many, many more predators to be outed. Each needs to be seen on the merits. If the person immediately admits fault and quits or whatever, there it is. If they don't, well then we have to go through further steps.

What brought it out into the open?