The progress you mentioned is minimal compared to the cost. The juice is not worth the squeeze.

As I have said many times, you are hyperfocused on "cost" and missing the "Big Picture." Besides, it's obviously not your money so why worry about the cost other people are paying for progress? Some things are priceless and worth the cost in time and/or money. Stop thinking "small" and perhaps you'll catch on to some universal truth and learn something.

Funny how I can be both of accused of thinking too big because the three proven parts of One Demand have never been put together before and thinking small for the same reasons.

Funny how I never accused you of thinking "too big" and likely never will. Your posts to the author of this blog are becoming troll-like and becoming smaller and more insignificant with each passing day.

You keep insisting that because there are no small contribution candidates that you would have to not vote. This is not true. That is the purpose of the write in vote.

In a majority of states, a write-in vote is like NOT voting. Again, you appear to have NOT done your homework or any research.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/politics/2016-election/write-in-votes/

Why do you keep repeating the nonsense about "My definition of small money"?

Because I am allowed to disagree with your opinion and your definition of "Small Money" even if you think my opinion is "nonsense."

Am I not allowed to have my own opinion on that and seek to find and work with others that may agree with me?

What part of "#FirstAmendement" is confusing at all? Duh.

The Columbus reference is laughable. What was reported by history of Columbus "discovering" America was contradicted by other history.

That was my entire point, Don, and it was my response to your statement:

In all of history nothing that happens for the first
time has ever happened before the first time it happened.

Now that nugget you wrote there is what is really laughable. :)

What is by design of our founding fathers is when legislators do what they have done for the last thirty years that you vote for someone else.

Is that so? Well, Bernie Sanders has been in Congress for several decades and actually meets your definition there moreso than any other candidate that was running for President of the United States last cycle. Again, yet another case of the reality not exactly matching the rhetoric. Besides, I did vote for someone else. Duh. :)

As conceding your point on Roehmer once does not seem to be enough, I will again say that I will not mention it in the future. I suggest you do the same.

It's Roemer, Don... R-O-E-M-E-R, pronounced "Roma" in the South, and I will speak about Roemer whenever I please. #FirstAmendment

The people free to marry who they love has nothing to do with the rank and file vs. the top earners.

I never said it did. You asked "what proof can be provided that voting for Big Money candidates can work," and I stated you should look at the big picture, stop thinking small. Whether you choose to acknowledge it or not, things have happened over the last 30 years that do qualify as progress. As I already stated, I do realize that my definition of "working" and yours would probably be two different things, but I provided you some proof anyway. It's laughable that you insist that democracy isn't working because candidates... with the noted exception of Buddy Roemer... *LOL*... won't self-limit their campaign contributions to a fraction of what the law allows and to an amount that you personally find acceptable.

Over the last thirty years the rich got richer under Democrats and Republicans and the rank and file remained stagnant or lost ground. That is NOT progressing slow and steady- it is a downward spiral leading to oblivion.

There you go thinking small again. You're hyperfocused on one issue whilst simultaneously insisting things aren't working at all. That's my entire point, Don.

Of course, trickle down economics is one of the primary reasons for income inequality and stagnant wages. And voting for Big Money Democrats is a primary reason that trickle down economics was enabled to happen.

As I said before, I don't give a rat's behind about Party, and I have voted for multiple different parties. As there is no such thing as a "Small Money" Democrat or Republican or _________ <-- fill in Party here, if I limited myself to your criteria, I wouldn't be able to vote at all, and I can assure you that I will be voting and encouraging as many people as I can to vote, vote, vote... the more the merrier.

Just because there is has always been Big Money in our political system doesn't mean we have to accept it. There were always slaves until we decided it was wrong and changed it.

Slavery was always wrong whether we "decided it was wrong" or not. You deciding whether or not you accept "Big Money" in our political system doesn't make a candidate who accepts more than your defined limit an inherently evil person, and a candidate like Buddy Roemer who meets your definition of "Small Money" doesn't change the fact that Buddy Roemer is a rich banker whose rhetoric doesn't match his reality.

It doesn't matter that whether or not there are small contribution candidates. That is not a reason that there can't be.

No, but I can't vote for a candidate that doesn't exist, and I can assure you that I will be voting and encouraging everyone to do likewise... the more the merrier. #Election2017

In all of history nothing that happens for the first
time has ever happened before the first time it happened.

I disagree, Don. It is widely reported in history books that Columbus discovered North America. I can assure you that the inhabitants of Turtle Island would disagree with that bollocks. :)

Your going to need more than feeble excuses and will have to address all the parts of One Demand that have been proven out instead of desperately focusing on Roehmer. And provide something that actually is progress.

No, Don, I'm not going to need to provide anything else that is progress because I'm done here. Whether or not you choose to admit there's been progress over the last several decades doesn't change the fact that there has been some progress, albeit slow as by design of our founding fathers. You refusing to recognize the gains because you're hyperfocused on one issue doesn't mean they don't exist. It's not up to me to prove your "One Demand" theory doesn't work; it's up to you to prove that it does. I'm not "desperately focused" on Roemer, but perhaps if you'd been the least bit focused on the easily searchable truth about Roemer's campaign contributions or even the fact that you're misspelling his name repeatedly, perhaps you could present a more persuasive argument or example that your theory can work instead of providing evidence that proved exactly the opposite. :)

And verily I tell you, that if he is elected yet a third time to high position, the cock will crow, and everyone will deny having had anything to do with it, and he'll probably be crucified in the press shortly thereafter.

I'm picturing Foghorn Leghorn as the cock doing the crowing.

If in their future there is a Senator Moore, what with the Current President and his proclivities and Dennis Hastert and now Senator Moore, the GOP should give thoughtful consideration to rebranding themselves as the Grand Old Pedophiles.

My comment was a response to Neilm about proof that One Demand can work.

Yes, I know that, Don. And in your response, you stated unequivocally that "Buddy Roehmer won congressional elections and elections for governor with 100 dollar contribution limits as both as a Democrat and Republican," whereupon I laughed out loud and took a proverbial trip down memory lane since I personally wrote Buddy Roemer a check with multiple zeroes on it in the 1980s more than once.

This is not the first time I mentioned Roehmer, but it is the first time anyone said that he never ran a 100 dollar campaign other than for president.

I confess to not reading every one of your posts. I do read most of them, though. Still, there was nothing to prevent you from checking the FEC records to determine the validity of Buddy Roemer's claims before you used him as the poster boy for how a One-Demand type formula could work... since he failed miserably doing it.

If that is the case I will not mention it again.

I will say, it's sure not your fault that a politician lied, though. :) The FEC records show Buddy also took many contributions from PACs while claiming he wasn't. Go figure. The FEC records come in handy to keep them honest because these days the lies are coming more fast and furious than I've ever seen in my lifetime. It's sad.

I was being asked for proof that One Demand can work and you joined the discussion. So it seems appropriate for me to ask for proof that voting for Big Money candidates can work.

Oh, come on, Don. Think big. Democracy moves slow, particularly for the rank and file versus the top earners. In many ways, there have been a lot of successes over the last 30 years also.

* People are now free to marry whom they love.
* Health care legislation was passed.
* Our lawmakers are looking more like our diverse citizenry versus 100% white guys.

There's something in there actually working, although progress moves slow and steady... as designed. Keep moving forward. :)

I am well aware of how our political system is designed. Your belief that the last thirty years can be explained by the failure of trickle down economics shows you do not.

*LOL* Coming from a guy who didn't spend 5 minutes checking FEC records in order to determine the validity of a politician's rhetoric and then held it out as proof that his One Demand theory can work, I am now laughing. :)

It is Big Money controlling our political process that made it possible for trickle down economics to exist.

I disagree, Don. Supply-side economics, commonly referred to as "trickle down," that were ushered in with the Reagan Administration is one of the primary reasons for income inequality and stagnant wages, whereas there generally has always been "Big Money"... and by that I mean the Don Harris definition of "Big Money"... in our politics.

As for the Big Picture comment- the solution to every issue in the entire picture is obscured by the influence of Big Money and you don't see it?

I "see" that you apparently believe that anyone who takes more than your defined contribution is deemed evil and shouldn't receive anyone's vote. That is "small" thinking, Don. Nevertheless, yet you still voted for Big Money candidates while sitting atop your high horse and castigating the rest of us for doing it. The FACT is that there is not a single politician in America who meets your definition of "Small Money"... not a single one, and anyone like Buddy Roemer who tells you that he does is just another in a long line of politicians who lied to you.

Oui, monsieur... et l'hiver arrive.

Non, non! C’est le printemps qui est sur le point d’arriver!

:-)

C. R. Stucki [15] -

OK, touché.

But please remember Christie got reelected, overwhelmingly. As did (to our everlasting shame) Ahhh-nold, out here in CA. The pendulum swings, even in blue states...

Don Harris [16] -

Don't forget the original low-donation candidate. When Jerry Brown ran for president back in the 1990s, he had an 800-number, and he refused all donations over $100. It was ahead of its time, but you've got to give Brown credit for being a pioneer, predating Howard Dean, John Edwards, Bernie, and all the rest of them.

:-)

John M [18] -

Thanks for the update! I'm now watching the Atlanta suburbs intently...

-CW

I meant from me, the former being a slip of the keys. Like the good Judge Hizzoner, I would not attribute guilt to myself until such time as proof of such guilt is brought forward, or until such time as such wicked accusation is made to my face, at which time I will call upon the Lord to rescue the ass upon which I sit, just as the Lord did sit upon his ass on behalf of the people of Alabama when the good judge was elected twice after being cast out for being of such immense character. And verily I tell you, that if he is elected yet a third time to high position, the cock will crow, and everyone will deny having had anything to do with it, and he'll probably be crucified in the press shortly thereafter.

Far be it for me to try to stir up trubble in the Alabama Gee-O-Pee.

Alabama Gee-O-Pee! OMG, Balthy... I can't stop laughing. You have captured the spirit of the South there and outdone yourself, but "far be it for me?! Didn't you mean from me... or is this your sly little admission of guilt, sir? ;)

Just sayin' ;)

Far be it for me to try to stir up trubble in the Alabama Gee-O-Pee.

Sorry, my mind wandered. Trump's schtick is getting old - even the South Koreans humored him and sent him on his way, and the Chinese have been ostentatiously stroking his ego, happy no doubt to see him tear up the TPP and leave them to economically dominate their neighbors. They too will (literally) patronize him and send him home.

Meanwhile, our erstwhile Republican congress has built a brand-new Tax Frankenstein for us to wave our pitchforks at, but they're not even sure if it can walk yet (not sure if it even has legs), and as usual, didn't include either a heart or a brain.

I'm just sayin'...

OMG Balthasar - you didn't just drop a "black op" theory on us, did you ;)

I was going by what I read about Roehmer. He claimed to have run 100 dollar campaigns and there was nothing that said he didn't.

Roemer claiming to have run "100 dollar campaigns" and you claiming that "Buddy Roehmer won congressional elections and elections for governor with 100 dollar contribution limits as both as a Democrat and Republican" are two very different things, and there was an easily searchable database kept by the FEC that proved he didn't. Buddy Roemer ran a presidential campaign using the $100 rhetoric and... read the article I linked above. His name was on zero ballots. He collected around $300,000 dollars and dropped out of the race.

It is possible that not all campaigns he ran were 100 dollar campaigns, but some were.

No, Don. Roemer ran one $100 campaign for president in 2012 and therefore zero successful campaigns using the "One Demand" type formula. The FEC records were always there proving otherwise and easily searchable.

You actually claimed Roemer won several federal congressional elections as well as Governor... which didn't happen. You are henceforth relieved of using Buddy Roemer as evidence that "One Demand" works since he is quite obviously exactly the opposite. You're welcome. :)

What proof do you have that voting for Big Money candidates has ever worked in the last thirty plus years?

It's a ridiculous question, Don, since my definition of "worked" and your definition are going to be two different things. Our political system of checks and balances is... by design of our founding fathers... meant to move slowly and methodically toward decisions by a series of compromises amongst people from multiple political persuasion. I believe your "last 30 years" issue is easier explained by the failure of trickle down economics to actually trickle down. We've discussed this before.

And things getting worse slower under Democrats than Republicans is not working.

I don't give a rats behind about Party affiliation. I believe Republicans have accomplished some great things in office as well as Democrats. I'm more of a "big picture" type thinker who doesn't believe that a politician who will take a larger contribution is inherently evil and vice versa. There is no such thing as a small money candidate, Don, regardless of what they claim to be.

You certainly cannot meet the standards you set for me.

Of course I can since I didn't set any standards for you, Don. I simply proved that Roemer didn't meet your definition. There is no politician alive that does and never has been... regardless of their rhetoric. :)

Continued

Yet despite being proven right about these possibilities I am told I still have to prove that One Demand can work.

Well, you brought up Buddy Roemer, the banker turned Congressman from Louisiana who is famous here in the South for being primaried and losing to David Duke... yes, that David Duke.

So there's your guinea pig, Don. Want to see how those "limitations" actually worked with Buddy?

It’s almost as if Roemer was proving that you can’t make headway running for president with a $100 contribution limit by…not making headway running for president with a $100 contribution limit. He raised more than $367,000 in small donations; in his last financial disclosures his campaign had $114,495 in the bank, and he told me he “lent” it $20,000 of his own money. According to Federal Election Commission data, he also gave his campaign another $25,100.

Roemer says he’s always fought the corrupting influence of money. As a congressman in the 1980s, Roemer claims, he never took PAC money. “Tip O’Neill used to laugh at me, ‘You can’t win, Buddy.’ I won every time.” Actually, according to FEC records, he took $8,600 from 19 PACs in 1980 and $49,200 from 112 PACs in 1982.

http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2012/05/buddy-roemer-suspends-presidential-campaign/#

Buddy Roehmer won congressional elections and elections for governor with 100 dollar contribution limits as both as a Democrat and Republican.

Buddy Roemer!

Oh, Don. Seriously?! Buddy Roemer is a banker and all that this implies.

Sorry, Don, but these contributions are actually easily verifiable. Buddy Roemer took contributions that exceeded your "One Demand" as a Representative of Louisiana.

https://www.fec.gov/data/receipts/?two_year_transaction_period=1982&data_type=processed&committee_id=C00148312&min_date=01%2F01%2F1981&max_date=12%2F31%2F1982

I believe Banker Buddy didn't start limiting his contributions until 2012 when he ran for president, but even then he still didn't meet your "One Demand" because he self-funded in the amount of $25,000 and took a loan for $10,000.

I'm just sayin'...

A link to Senator Jeff Merkley with a video about legislation he is introducing to combat the "money in politics" problem. Interesting.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/woman-says-roy-moore-initiated-sexual-encounter-when-she-was-14-he-was-32/2017/11/09/1f495878-c293-11e7-afe9-4f60b5a6c4a0_story.html?tid=ss_tw&utm_term=.c4b0638dddc4

I said yesterday Doug Jones may be the luckiest Dem candidate ever, given where he is and his uphill battle.

Now, after a smattering of off-year victories at the state and local level, it's "The Republicans are headed for extinction!".

All political hype.

City Councilwoman Keisha Lance Bottoms, Democrat, and City Councilwoman Mary Norwood, Independent, will proceed to the runoff, having earned 26 percent and 21 percent of the vote, respectively.

Georgia House districts 117 & 119 (where Athens is located) have flipped. GA HD-117, Dems flip a GOP seat 53–47% And in Georgia HD-119, the Democrat won 57%. Both are districts Trump had carried. The Democrats will also pick up GA Senate District 6, since, while no individual got 50% of vote, and will require a December runoff, the top two candidates are both Democrats.

In other mayoral contests: in Manchester, New Hampshire, the Democrat Joyce Craig beat Republican Mayor Ted Gatsas. In St. Petersburg, Florida, it seems that the incumbent Democrat Rick Kriseman, has won a close re-election against former popular Republican mayor Rick Baker by 3 percentage points, 51.4 to 48.6.

I don't recall offering any personal opinions on the efficacy of "advertising/propaganda". I think I said that I'd personally never met or heard of anybody who changed his "philosophical/ideological leanings" based on "political campaign advertising".

And I find your cute childish rhyming game, while illustrative of human nature, mostly irrelevant to political campaigning, but if I'm wrong, I've got a sure winner for you in 2020.

You guys should go on national TV with something akin to 'Whom should we BUMP'? 'Whom should we DUMP'? 'How about ________?'

Surely, on your system, that would be guaranteed to get rid of 'the Donald', right?

Having lived my whole life in the rocky Mtns, I've never made any effort to keep current on east coast, big city, NY area politics, but I seem to recall that Christi was mostly an aberration for NJ. I think the previous half dozen or so governors that preceded Christi were all Dems, I think He only served a single term, and the guy following him is a Dem. Sounds like Dem country to me!

Even if the Big Money Democrats manage to wrest control in 2018 it will only be another turning point in the endless circle of shifting control between Big Money Democrats and Big Money Republicans.

This is another pendulum Don. Big money builds in insidiousness in our politics to a crescendo, then a wave of disgust sweeps it out when the politicians are too far from the voters and too close to the money. We are seeing it now - people are getting more angry about the NRA's influence on gun politics, and the Republicans are way out of step with voters on the Corporate vs. Middle Class tax beneficiaries.

The Tea Party and Occupy were a cry in the wilderness until one got coopted by bigots and the other lost their marbles (camping out, in NY, in winter - you aren't going to get the soccer moms on board with that protest).

45 has woken up a lot of people in the middle who were depressed with politics as usual. This is the type of wave that can insist on real campaign finance reform and put at a minimum put handcuffs on Citizens United.

You have one idea, but it just isn't getting traction, even in a friendly audience like this. I challenge you to come up with three or four more ideas that will lower the influence of money in politics - study what happened the last time in history we as a nation fought back against big money - Roosevelt in the early 1900's for example.

If you propose a plan that has already worked and you can show viable steps to achieve it then you are far more likely to be the key mover and shaker in achieving your goals.

Good luck! I'm rooting for you, and your passion is commendable.

The fear of 45 and Bannon is evaporating. The pendulum is swinging - remember this week in 10 years time when we are told that Democrats have a lock on power and the Republicans are dead.

The pendulum always swings back... always, though sometimes quicker than other times. Anyone who believes and/or tries to convince you otherwise is drunk on the respective color Kool-Aid or way too deep into the cult of personality, worshiping at the alter.

I've watched the elation/despair pendulum swing in the U.K. and the U.S. for four decades and realize that the only constant is denial.... and self delusion.

Yes, sir. Now multiply this exponentially so because we're not even dealing with the "normal" level of denial and self-delusion, but the Benedict Donald level, a con artist who would turn coat on his own country in his unquenchable need for praise and money.

Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose.

Oui, monsieur... et l'hiver arrive.

Growing up in the mid-Atlantic region, VA was one of those "Yellow Dog" Democratic states, until the Reagan Revolution caused most Southern states to shift to the GOP. Since that shift, VA has been solidly red. Barack Obama, amazingly, shifted it blue again, and it voted Dem in 08, 12, and 16.

But even so, it wasn't until last night that I referred to it as a "blue state."

As for NJ, if Repubs weren't expected to do well there, then how do you explain Chris Christie's success?

neilm [3] -

Exit polls back you up. Angry people vote. And nothing is going to stop them from doing so. If this is a trend, look forward to Speaker Pelosi once again...

John M. [4] -

Hadn't heard that about GA. How did the Atlanta mayor election go? Haven't heard the result in that one, either...

neilm [6/7] -

Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose.

Yeah, the only thing that's delusional in politics is to deny the existence of the pendulum. That's the only universal rule I've discovered, over the years.

:-)

Kick [8] -

OK, I heard it in a slightly different form, and it worked pretty much 100% of the time, when we tried it as 5th graders, that I can remember:

Say the word "toast" five times: toast toast toast toast toast.
Say the word "toast" four times: toast toast toast toast.
Say the word "toast" three times: toast toast toast.
Say the word "toast" two times: toast toast.
Say the word "toast" once: toast.

What do you put in a toaster?

Every time, the answer came back as "toast."

Also, reading a book by George Lakoff, a similar test exists. Subliminally flashing the words "OCEAN" and "MOON" right before being asked the name of a random laundry detergent, the subject almost always responds: "Tide."

These things do actually work, and most of the time, people don't even realize it is happening.

-CW

I presume that constitutes your confession that you DO switch your political allegiance based on campaign advertising, right?

You "presume." Oh, how you do presume, and therein lies your obvious problem, Stucki. You presume much too much about people you don't know and frequently assert that "everyone" is a person you can easily define with a few labels.

People cast their votes based on only two criteria, philosophical/ideological leanings, or their pocket book, and nobody ever gets persuaded to change his mind by political advertising.

So your above assertion that "nobody ever gets persuaded to change his mind by political advertising" is laughable and ridiculous, particularly because a majority of people are quite easily persuaded, and I can easily prove it.

Where can you find a beach? ....... the coast.
What is a cooked lump of beef? ... a roast.
What is another word for brag? ... boast.
What is the opposite of least? ...... most.
What do you put in a toaster? ......

A majority would answer "toast," but then I led them there with the previous conversation. Without the prior chatter, a majority would obviously answer "bread" and rightly so because you don't generally put toast in a toaster.

If advertising/propaganda on radio, television, social media, the Internet and/or even in person and at rallies didn't move people to act in certain ways, no one would waste their time doing it.

That would indicate that some people do indeed BELONG in a "simple box".

Oh, look how fast Stucki learns, y'all. He is now conceding that "some" people BELONG in a "simple box" and not "all" or "everyone." I wonder if this means he is ready to concede that there are indeed more than "two reasons" people choose to vote the way they inevitably choose to vote. Besides, Stucki, you left out "One Demand" as being one of the two reasons and therefore totally discounted Don. ;)

Perhaps you should try "getting out" (of your simple box) more.

It's your "simple box," Stucki... not mine and not many others either and never was. You see, we don't actually fit in a "simple box" of your making... never did and never will... no matter how many times you insist we "all" do.

Neither denial or self delusion are party oriented - but understanding science (i.e. reality) seems to be leaning Democrat at the moment - it very obviously hasn't always been that way - particularly economically, and the economic delusions on the left are likely to be the genesis of their next crash.

Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose.

I've watched the elation/despair pendulum swing in the U.K. and the U.S. for four decades and realize that the only constant is denial.

Sounds like you are whistling in the dark to me and trying to poo poo how astounding it really was.

Maybe this will put things in perspective for you.

Republicans lost their super majority in the Georgia legislature too. In fact, two districts that were specifically gerrymandered to be safe very conservative seats, ended up being won by Democrats.

As for Virginia, 15 white Republican men lost, and were replaced by 11 Democratic women, in a state also heavily gerrymandered by Republicans. Democrats took 54 percent of the vote and Republicans still manged to almost break even in representation.

45 could turn out to be a massive pratfall for the Republicans. Anger is a motivating emotion.