[115] MHorton: You can't just ignore this level of deception. It's either real delusion, or it's purposeful and focused propaganda.

I agree. Unchecked it leads to where we're at now, with a pathological liar as POTUS, surrounded by grifters, incompetents, opportunists and nutty true believers.

I think I'm reasonable and I don't allow trolls and bots to drive me off. Drop that r word and I agree with your point.

That organization is based on a story about a guy who was born to a virgin and rose from his grave after three days.

"it became clear that I was alone, and there's no point."

What does this mean? How are you alone? Do you need non-troll interaction and not get it?

I post just to say what I have to say. Sometimes others react/respond and sometimes they don't. Either way is OK.

The Catholic Church, for example, doesn't oppose evolution.

It's the denial of reality, and the purposeful shifting of conversations about reality to either false narratives or to subjective issues that's the problem, not just here but all over the internet.

Handwaving the behavior away as comparable to religion because it encompasses "weird" ideas is disingenuous.

Trump is just a vessel for a group of people who have learned to listen to the facts they like, true or not, and then demonize everyone who disagrees with those facts.

They make it too hostile an environment for reasonable people to persist in, leaving only other extremists; either their side, bolstering numbers and echo chamber, and the other side, which gives them a hyperbolic example of their philosophical and political opposition and validates their intense emotions on the subjects, and allows them to feel victimized and attacked, even as they gain more and more power.

Reasonable people are driven silent or away altogether, because there's no point in one or two people complaining about behavior that just a decade ago would have gotten you thrown out of decent company.

That's why I quit posting here; because it became clear that I was alone, and there's no point. The trolls always have more energy in the end, and when you can make up lies and personal attacks instead of using facts or reason, it's a much easier game.

You can't just ignore this level of deception. It's either real delusion, or it's purposeful and focused propaganda.

For sure. I don't think it's a good idea to behave as if crazy ideas are anything but crazy, but there's an awful lot of crazy in religion and it gets treated seriously by most people. Trumpism is a cultish religion.

I agree with everything else you said -- we know why he's here and he won't leave and etc.

But I really do think the notion of enabling has merit. I think one of the primary reasons the Republican Party has gone down such a rat hole is because Democrats and the media have, in different ways and for different reasons, enabled them. Not necessarily consciously -- indeed, I think enabling is mostly unconscious. It's people falling into patterns they aren't aware of. The dynamic here is sort of a mini-version of the national political dynamic.

I'll have to say that I've never seen any value of any kind in his cut and paste gaslighting, definitely not humor.

I don't know that they enable him. CW does and we all know why. It doesn't matter what any of us does. He won't leave. This is just reality TV-ish drama and desperate neediness a la Alt-Orange.

Of course, you may have meant something else -- I'm all ears. But I read it as: "Paula is humorless. I have a sense of humor. I'll avoid the other points since I have no response to them. But maybe others will join me in deploring Paula's failure to find Michale funny."

“Man invented language to satisfy his deep need to complain.”
~Lily Tomlin

Balthasar says, similarly, that Michale's "arguments" can be used for practice, and to use humor etc. versus hostility against them.

Elizabeth remains mute on her reasons for encouraging Michale's posts.

[89] MHorton counters with: Laughing off liars and propaganda is not the solution.

It's not funny, and it's not "rough armor" it's a man who's either willfully spreading lies for political purposes, or who has fallen to propaganda.

YES, YES, YES, YES, YES.

I don't find Michale's bullshit funny. I don't find his occasional jokes to be sufficient to outweigh the sheer, dead dishonesty that permeates his posts. I am not willing to trawl through his garbage to find the jokes. The "reward" isn't enough. However, some of you feel differently, and you believe other people should put up with Michale's crap because YOU like it. I don't agree but then I never said life was fair.

[88] To the next point: MHorton says: You can't hone an argument against someone who doesn't respond with facts or reasoning.

I think he is correct. You can make arguments -- you can put them out there. But Michale does not respond directly or honestly to them, he just does one or several of his usual dodges.

Want to hone an argument? Argue with someone who knows how to do it and can actually challenge your reasoning. Arguing with Michale is like trying to play tennis against someone who thinks he's playing a video game. Things happen, but they aren't debates.

[90] John's point is correct -- Michale's presence or absence will not be mandated by us. That's never been my focus. Michale can blather or not and we can ignore him or not.

What I am interested in is responses to this contention: Joshua's, Elizabeth's and Balthasar's interactions with Michale are enabling. Enabling, just to be clear, means assisting someone in continuing unhealthy/bad behaviors by protecting them from consequences. The enabler(s) doesn't recognize, or minimizes, the harm being done, and in doing so, allows OTHERS to be harmed.

I have been guilty of this behavior myself. But after 45's election, a lot of things became clear. One is that by letting rightwingers lie, lie, lie without consequences, very bad things happen. Michale is a symptom of a larger problem that has to be dealt with, on many fronts. One of the remedies is to stop enabling.

And yet, you yourself admitted you will run away again..

And it's YOU who waits until you think I am gone before you start talking shit..

Apparently the facts PROVE you are afraid of me..

Because I'm the one threatening people online.

Awwwwww.... How did you put it???

You sound like a freaking 5 year old.

Grow. Up.

Eat yer own words, little bit.. :D

Because I'm the one threatening people online.

Calling them weak because they don't want to call me names back.

I'm not afraid of you, Michale. You're so pathetic it makes me sick to see people encourage your sad, delusional behavior.

As I said, which you are obviously too stoopid to read..

I treat people how they treat me..

If you don't like being attacked, then quit attacking..

At least *I* have the courage to say it directly to you..

You just whine and cry behind my back..

What a keyboard warrior you are.... Pussy

They are going to think whatever they want to think, regardless of the facts..

Just like they do with President Trump...

It's called being in a hysterical bubble...

Duuuhhhhh....

You know what Michale, have at it. I'll leave again

Of course you will.. Because you are a candy-ass who can't handle facts...

You go on and on about how I am preventing people from talking about politics..

Yet it is YOUR sorry ass who has done nothing but post about me since you slunked back in after you thought i was gone..

So, who's the dipshit??

That would be you...

Made me cry.

Lol. These comments are a joke.

And then here comes the troll, openly trolling.

Also, I quit when it became clear that you buy your way into these forums.

But sure, come back just to piss me off; that will SURE prove you're not just a troll here to troll people.

But when I show up, you run away like the little bitch you are...

I might just come back to see you run away again, crying your eyes out... :D

"MOM! THEY WERE MEAN TO ME EVEN THOUGH I AM THE COOLEST ONE!"

"DAD, THEY CALLED ME NAMES, I MEAN I CALLED THEM NAMES TOO BUT THEY CALLED ME NAMES AND THEY CALLED ME NAMES FIRST SO I CALLED THEM NAMES BACK AND THEN THEY WERE MEAN AND IT MADE ME CRY"

Grow. Up.

Another lie, that you know better. Several people here have made it clear they don't belong to a party, and yet you can't keep from lying and insults even when you're crying about people being mean to you, after years of you outright attacking people with outright lies for daring to disagree with you.

After all, it's not like we're have real face-to-face conversations here ... we're all safely positioned behind a screen.

As you like to say, get over it!

In your bubble, I simply make personal attacks on people WITHOUT provocation..

In reality, I *ONLY* personally attack people AFTER they have personally attacked me... If ya'all don't like the personal attacks I make, then stop making the personal attacks on me.. It's that simple...

In your bubble, I am being sophomoric because I said Victoria defended Nazis. Which she did..

In reality, it was simply a response to Balthasar's accusation that *I* was defending Nazis.. Which I never have.. But because ya'all are in the hysterical bubble, my "sophistry" (of which there was none) is attacked, but Balthasar's sophistry is given a free pass..

In ya'all's hysterical bubble, *I* am the *ONLY* one who makes off topic comments that must be publicly called out on..

In reality, while I do it more, ***EVERYONE*** has been guilty of posting off-topic comments..

But, the in the hysterical bubble, it's allowed for ya'all to do it without consequence.. But it's NOT allowed the only person in here NOT a slave to Party ideology..

As an aside to Liz..

It's not the teeth-kicking that bothers me so much as the fact that I get kicked in the teeth by the very few people here who should know better...

Punk has (that's why he is "Punk"... a compliment)... one example:

http://www.chrisweigant.com/2017/03/28/will-democrats-work-with-trump-it-depends/#comment-97507

i've shared my poetry and songs here before - a few original to this blog. kick can back me up on that - she's much better than i am at record keeping. have you shared any of yours?

Record keeping!!!!! Ahem... Just so ya'all <-- see what I did there understand, that "record keeping" is done all in one place... my memory; I have not a single written record whatsoever.

Songs, oh yes... we have shared songs:

JL has... just one example:

http://www.chrisweigant.com/2017/04/24/a-very-busy-week-ahead/#comment-98972

{Continued...}

Laughing off liars and propaganda is not the solution.

It's not funny, and it's not "rough armor" it's a man who's either willfully spreading lies for political purposes, or who has fallen to propaganda.

Either of those is not funny, and not something to "hone your arguments on"

Besides, you can't hone an argument against someone who doesn't respond with facts or reasoning.

I'll never understand why you people want to keep a troll around.

Go to the comments section of The Hill.

When Redstate has more reasonable comments than CW, things are wrong. I've said so the whole time.

I'd love to have reasoned discussions, but you can't block someone and ignore 100 literal posts in reply to his trolling.

You guys seem to think that you have to have a troll around to have someone to disagree with you.

But I'd bet I'm more conservative than most of you, and I enjoy playing Devil's Advocate in a rational manner, because I was properly trained in how to debate.

We could have all sorts of discussions, Paula sure seems to like them, but instead you'd rather have a liar yell at you.

you said it as i wish i could have. the value michale brings is a sense of humor and the opportunity to sharpen our arguments. he does regularly intersperse his brand of sophistry with valid arguments, so i like to focus on those.

@alto,

i've shared my poetry and songs here before - a few original to this blog. kick can back me up on that - she's much better than i am at record keeping. have you shared any of yours?

JL

Is that another new venture to fix politics?

BTW, comment 56... yup.

A

On the other hand, if open hostility to trolls is what trolls feed on, you're undercutting yourself by being hostile.

I prefer clever retorts, myself, in the manner of CW, who should be the gold standard of decorum here. Nobody tells me what to do here, but I do know how to take a cue.

So while I understand your outrage, Paula, I urge you to take the more constructive path of utilizing Michale (and anyone else) as an opportunity to sharpen your intellectual sword against rough armor. Stay positive, stay sharp, be funny. That's how we win.

I seem to recall a few rulings issued from your bench, but a poet who never shares any poetry obviously has pretty good judgment.

Oops.
I just passed judgment... or was that gas?

A

THAT's the unhealthy part.

But you seem to think we need to let him get away with his crap AND not call him on it.

That is emotionally unhealthy, masochistic behavior that benefits only one person: Michale.

@paula/don/liz/balthasar/kick/alto/MH

my goal is not to seem holier than thou, it's to help keep this forum interesting, open to dissent and free from personal attacks. whatever his flaws, i believe this forum is better off with michale than without him, and i stand by that belief. judge me for that if you want, but know that judgment says as much about you as it does about me.

How exactly did I get dragged into this? Was it something I didn't say? :)

HOW is this forum better off from his input? Explain it to me.

Explain to me why I shouldn't see your constant defense of him as enabling. And patronizing to him -- although he seems too oblivious to notice that. But you have literally told me you sometimes get through to him if you explain things carefully and clearly -- as if he's a child. He is not a child and his views are not amusing or harmless. They lead directly to people who gather around confederate statues and run over people in cars and beat people and shoot people and all the rest. None of those people received the pushback they needed previously. Many of them are publicly shocked at the pushback. That should tell you something.

Neither you nor Elizabeth have responded to my point, nor offered a substantive defense of Michale's trolling. Even in your "apology" you're actually still insulting me -- "this judgement says as much about you as it does me" -- translation: I'm the spiritual good person and she's the bitch. Very passive-aggressive. And by extending your "apology" to the others you are trying to get kudos and reassurance. That's more manipulative behavior.

I think you're offended, but I also think you don't have a case. You certainly haven't made it. You've stated your contention: the forum is better off with Michale's presence. So defend it.

our judgments of others tend to say more about ourselves than those we judge. i apologize to any of you i've given the impression that i'm trying to censor your opinions. my goal is not to seem holier than thou, it's to help keep this forum interesting, open to dissent and free from personal attacks. whatever his flaws, i believe this forum is better off with michale than without him, and i stand by that belief. judge me for that if you want, but know that judgment says as much about you as it does about me.

JL

I am inhuman, uninteresting, dim and boring. But YOU are without an argument. And your failure speaks volumes.

Here's a little tidbit about your Netroots fave Ironstache Bryce.

Dodging a debate with his primary opponent isn't very cool.

http://therealnews.com/t2/story:19813:Paul-Ryan-Challenger-%27Iron-Stache%27-Dodges-Debate-With-Primary-Opponent

A

Indubitably.

When was the last time that you made a serious comment here about a serious subject that didn't have anything to do with the antics of Michale?

Your comments would be far more interesting if you could just focus on something other than Michale.

Finding
Reality
In
Net
Groups
Everyday

But, meanwhile http://www.rawstory.com/2017/08/this-makes-you-scared-muslim-couple-attacked-after-enraged-passerby-hears-them-speak-arabic/

Trolls like Michale fearmonger, which results in innocent people being hurt. Your encouragement empowers him, and his lies. By "taking him seriously" you take his bullshit seriously. You legitimize his bullshit arguments.

Do you know of any small money Democrats?

"Alpha Media adult alternative KINK (101.9) Portland, OR will track the classic Pink Floyd album, “Dark Side of the Moon” in its entirety beginning at 9:36am local time. “The eclipse has a soundtrack,” a promo on the station announced. The peak of the total eclipse will synch with the album’s closing lyrics “the sun is eclipsed by the moon” from the song “Eclipse.”"

Like Kick, I'll have to wait for 2014 to see the total eclipse, but I know already what my soundtrack will be.

It looks like my concerns about the Indianapolis were unfounded... she's 18,000 feet down.

Yes. To put that in perspective, she is 3.4 miles deep in the Pacific Ocean, about 1 mile deeper than the wreckage of the RMS Titanic in the Atlantic. Also... so far... the finder is not revealing her exact location.

Yep.

BTW, Joshua, you constantly try to tell me what I'm allowed to think and not think and say and not say. Meanwhile I have yet to see your extremely condescending exchanges with Michale produce anything other than the most minimal, and invariably short-lived, reductions in Michale's output of rightwing trollery. You do not help him, you enable him. Do you hand booze to your friends who are trying to quit drinking?

Michale is a serial liar. When you pretend his lies don't matter you are saying "lying is ok". And when a culture does that for long periods, we get 45 and we get Nazis in our streets. Quite possibly Michale doesn't know when he's lying because it's so second-nature to him now. That is still not acceptable. Elizabeth treats Michale dishonesty as though its "cute" but occasionally tiresome. You treat it as though Michale is just confused or misguided. Just like those confused, misguided nazis in Charlottesville.

It is my view that coddling liars enables them. It isn't kind. It isn't enlightened. It isn't holy. It is irresponsible. It is dangerous. When you do it you endanger honest people. You endanger vulnerable people.

But whatever floats your boat...

Oh, and Joshua, you say caring about Michale's hurt feelings is "human" -- implying that I am not. How could you be so mean?

I don't get how anyone can rationalize what he said when the Nazi's came out and cheered his comments.

Nation Review's comments are particularly interesting, since NR drove the white nationalists out years ago.

It's crazy how many people are willing to defend literal Nazis just to piss off "leftists."

I don't have much sympathy for Republicans though; I quit being a Republican years ago for these very reasons, and anyone who's kept voting for them was quietly condoning this the entire time.

It turns out that I am living in the path of totality. Who knew? So I wrote a song to celebrate. I only have words so far... no music. So, here goes...

TOTALITY
Well... I'm living in the path of totality
I'm living in the path of totality
So I'm living in the path of totality
April 2024

It's a work in progress. I still have some time to fine tune it. ;)

In the meantime, nearly every elected Republican has issued some sort of statement distancing themselves from Trump's remarks. Even the Joint Chiefs of Staff (who never issue political opinions) felt compelled to issue statements reaffirming the military's commitment to equal rights.

Outside government, conservatives have been more vocal, but many still criticize the President. One conservative called Trump's remarks "monumentally stupid", while Romney called on the president to apologize.

There are, of course, those who will defend even the stupidest things their POTUS does. Many, following the lead of Trump and Sessions, have tried to draw an equivalency between white separatists and Antifa, the leftist anti-fascist group, as though being pro-fascist was merely another side of some inconsequential political coin.

The writer that Michale linked to this morning [33] takes the novel approach of claiming that Trump "never campaigned to be our moral leader", and is "no angel" - essentially arguing the proposition: 'so what if he's a racist?'

Certainly, those at the receiving end of Trump and Sessions' 'law and order' agenda would disagree that moral motivation has no bearing on the matter, particularly following Trump's glancing endorsement of police brutality in a recent speech.

Hear that sound? It's honest Abe whirring in his grave like an out-of-control carousel, as 'the party of Lincoln' steps up to defend the Confederacy, and its generals, and the philosophy of hate that he devoted most of his life, and his entire presidency to eradicating. Nobody is suggesting tearing down the Lincoln memorial, probably for the same reason that Trump can't find a defender on capitol hill - moral leadership matters, even 150 years after the fact, and maybe more so today than ever.

for better and worse, michale is a member of our community. no individual gets to decide what any other individual must think, no matter how strongly we disagree. expressing concern for the health and well-being one of our own is not being a sock puppet, it's being human.

JL

Don't obsess on the polls. You shouldn't read much into short term fluctuations of the RCP rolling avg. plot. It has the virtue of simplicity, but that's about the only virtue. It's very noisy because RCP doesn't factor in house bias. There is a strong wave pattern in the data, probably because the different pollsters report in a fairly repeatable pattern. There is roughly 6 weeks between peak to peak or valley to valley numbers over the last 9 months. Daily numbers mean next to nothing. The long term trend is reasonably clear: Trump has been losing ground since February, his net favorability has dropped about 15%. That's a real problem for him, since he started at an historic low.

Heheheheheheheheheheheheheheheh ...

Ahem. Seriously.

Heh.

I'm thinking that there must be another (more valid) reason why you no longer wish to be a part of this wild place ... hmmm? ...

It's really amazing that we are still all here and ready to take another virtual beating at your hands.

Sure, some of the stuff you have to ignore but, jeez, just ignore it. It works for me!?

read it and think about it.

http://etc.usf.edu/lit2go/174/a-connecticut-yankee-in-king-arthurs-court/3049/chapter-6-the-eclipse/

JL

we're living in hysterical times. are we hallucinating donald's statements in favor of the klan and the neo-nazis? i guess we need to read the entire transcript to figure out whether he actually said those things, or if there's some other context we're missing.

JL

One can only get kicked in the teeth so often before they get sick of it..

On the plus side, I DID find a commentary that explains ya'all's problem perfectly...

How To Know You’re In a Mass Hysteria Bubble
http://blog.dilbert.com/post/164297628606/how-to-know-youre-in-a-mass-hysteria-bubble

It was like going to church and receiving an epiphany from the gods...

I wish ya'all the best...

I miss Michale ...

Please come back!

It looks like my concerns about the Indianapolis were unfounded... she's 18,000 feet down.

A

A weekly check might be better. :)

I spoke too soon.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/israel-trump-charlottesville-nazis-ayoub-kara_us_599995cfe4b01f6e801f166d?ncid=inblnkushpmg00000009

Happy to see the impact in Israel is not being ignored.

A

Yeah well, it wasn't a protest sponsored by Dems, so I wasn't sure if I was expecting too much even though I'm sure a bunch of the protestors were Dems.

No doubt, it's a tricky thing to write about since a small number of protestors acted in a manner unworthy of our support or praise (and I'm not talking about those who were responding to being attacked and defending themselves, but rather those who failed to adhere to accepted forms of protest).

Again, I can't help but think about COINTELPRO.
One of the well documented incidents occurred at a protest four days after the Kent State massacre... an LEO infiltrator threw a rock at the police and peaceful protestors were arrested and prosecuted for it, and the media savaged all the protestors about it.
Or, at the Occupy camp in Oakland CA, the night the camp was forcibly destroyed, a bunch of men who nobody in Occupy had ever seen before showed up and instigated the violent clashes with the police that were all over the news.

I hope we are only witnessing ignorant types with impulse control issues who don't understand that their actions are counterproductive.
It would be sad if there is a group who adopt the tactics of the right to fight the right, or if there are active efforts to discredit the left again.

That said, the vast majority were peaceful and do deserve some credit for standing up to Nazis, and the resulting impact on Trump and his gang.
I'm glad you agree.

-
-

So, were there any independent, DSA, or Green party candidates given speaking slots at Netroots?
Or was it just acceptable lefties?

-
-

As for Bibi, see my follow up to nypoet.
Unfortunately, I don't think the impact will be very big, because most of the discussion is occurring in Israeli media as far as I have noticed.

Someone here noted that the Rabbi who handled Ivanka's conversion spoke out strongly, but the Israel angle is being ignored.

A

Thanks.
I hadn't heard about the discovery.

I'd have to dig to find the article, but there was a disturbing report about Chinese salvage operators stealing WWII shipwrecks in Indonesia or the Philippines or thereabouts.

They are legally protected tombs, and it's hard to imagine such disrespect to earn a buck.

A

Thanks. I really appreciate it.
I'd like to see more people in the mainstream make that point on issues other than the no brainer response to neo-Nazis (which you have, so that isn't directed towards you).

The comment from his son was disturbing but revealing.
The ongoing effort to paint all critics of Israeli policies as anti-Semitic, when there is a reluctance by Jewish right wingers to condemn fellow right wingers who are truly anti-Semitic will hopefully open some eyes.

That's not to say that there aren't critics of Israeli policies who are also anti-Semitic, and it's important that we continue to call them out vocally as well.
In my experience they're mostly right wing interlopers on left wing sites, but there are also the ignorant and a contingent of conspiracy theorists... with a sprinkling of Israel activists trying to discredit BDS.
With a lot of effort, the ignorant can be informed, but the latter two groups will be a perpetual barrier to reasoned discourse on the issues.

20

Oh jeez.
Americans rallying behind Trump because of his offensive remarks is sick. Talk about revealing.

A

agreed, bibi does not speak for most jews, or even most israelis.

JL

okay, 3.9 points.

8/14: 37.4-57.4
8/18: 39.0-55.1

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/other/president_trump_job_approval-6179.html

technically you're right, but it's still not a good look for our country.

JL

[moved forward from Trump's Tailspin]

"You've got city hands Mr. Hooper... been countin money all your life."
- Quint in Jaws

Say, Punk... speaking of Quint, they just located his USS Indianapolis after 72 years. Go figure.

https://youtu.be/xO60RohuARY?t=2m

Noon the fifth day, Mr. Hooper, a Lockheed Ventura saw us, he swung in low and he saw us, a young pilot, a lot younger than Mr. Hooper. Anyway, he saw us, and he come in low and three hours later, a big fat PBY comes down and start to pick us up. Y'know, that was the time I was most frightened, waitin' for my turn. I'll never put on a life jacket again. So, eleven hundred men went into the water, three hundred sixteen men come out; the sharks took the rest, June the 29th, 1945. Anyway... we delivered the bomb. ~ Quint in Jaws

LL&P

OK, it now reads:

The only current African-American Republican senator, Tim Scott, admitted...

Better?

-CW

Have to say, that's still my favorite login yet...

As for your link, damn, Canucki journalism is pretty impressively erudite. That was a scathing article, and yet I feel like I just earned a college credit or two for reading it. Delanda Trump indeed!

Thanks for a good read from up north...

-CW

That is a damn good point, and I'm kind of astonished at myself for missing the obvious. Everyone who reacted so as not to be later shamed by some modern version of the "When they came for the Socialists" poem does indeed deserve recognition. And I don't know how I blew it -- it was kind of a "face-palm" moment to read your comment, in fact.

I was really happy to see the response in Boston today. I promise, I'll either address this next week in an article, or at the very least add a note to the FTP, noting this week's omission.

And thanks for pointing it out!

As for Netroots (haven't finished your comment yet, kind of answering as I read each paragraph), it is officially non-partisan, but then again so are the conservative conventions.

I mean, it's lefty. Which politicians are really going to show up? NRN would certainly welocme a Progressive Republican (if such creatures even exist), but I've never seen one.

The interesting thing, really, is who shows up. I've seen a wide number of Dem senators show up (Franken, Warren, Sanders) but also have never seen Hillary at one (she may have attended one of the first, before her 2008 run, I don't know, but she was nowhere to be seen in 2008 or 2016).

So, no, it's not officially a Dem party convention, but (logically) that's who shows up to schmooze the lefty crowd.

Your news on Israel was interesting, I have to say. I vaguely heard about the comment supporting Trump, but didn't even read the article. So it's interesting to see some spillover into other countries' politics.

-CW

You looking at RCP? They've been manipulating their own data set, but I don't think it's been a full four points...

Paula [2] -

I think you may be right about the tipping point, where nobody wants to work for him anymore. We'll see...

Although I still maintain that a weak and ineffectual Trump in the WH that everyone ignores and laughs at is still better than President Pence.

Maybe that's just me, though...

LizM [4] -

Bookmakers in Ireland are taking bets. Is such gambling legal in Canada? Heh.

Speak2 [5] -

Didn't I say that? Lemme check...

OK, you're going to have to believe me on this one, but that was actually in the original draft [Hello, Cory Booker?!?]. But it somehow got edited out when I rewrote that whole sentence. I'll fix it after I finish this comment, promise, because that is indeed what I originally wrote. Good eye, and thanks for pointing it out.

OK, altohone's going to need a separate comment from me, so let me go fix it now...

-CW

Here's an interesting take that includes several of the bits CW mentioned, but with a broader context.

https://www.counterpunch.org/2017/08/18/to-see-or-to-nazi-trumps-moral-blindspot-is-americas/

A

This interview with Col. Wilkerson about al Qaida is worth watching.
It includes a couple of clips from others that provide some necessary context about al Qaida in Idlib province in Syria, but also lays out the choices we face in a very straightforward manner that I would hope most would agree on.

http://therealnews.com/t2/story:19792:Wilkerson%3A-Under-Trump%2C-Al-Qaeda-is-Flourishing

about 14 minutes long

A

http://www.thewhig.com/2017/08/15/president-trump-needs-to-go

Let's not forget, according to Trump, we are no problem.

LL&P

"The same thing that primarily set us apart then: respect for human rights, and the right of all people to political self-determination through a representative government."

Um.
Right.
Well, I'm sure you are aware that Putin was elected several times with large majorities and remains popular... that your claims about him may be true but are actually unproven assertions... that two of our last five presidential elections went to the candidate who got fewer votes... that our government is representative of big donors rather than the people... that our own press is dominated by five corporations who fire dissenters of the establishment line and exclude alternative views... that our own history is replete with persecutions and assassinations and human rights violations up to this day...

... and that Reagan's beef with communism coincided with his support for anti-democratic authoritarians who violated human rights, killed political opponents and allowed no press freedoms (not unlike many of our allies today, not just Saudi Arabia).

So, basically, your claim that it wasn't the evil empire of communist ideology that was the real reason for Reagan's words as quoted by CW yesterday, but rather other factors at play, is really blatant historical revisionism coupled with head in the sand denial about the current realities we face that does not match our noble rhetoric, and a side serving of hypocrisy.

My comment was about the false narrative that justifies our global empire based on military and economic hegemony that too many Americans feel is justified by the good we are doing spreading freedom and democracy, but the truth is rather different... illegal wars, instability, oppression, etc.

Another path is possible.
A path of dialogue and diplomacy, a path of cooperation and compromise rather than confrontation and conflict.

The "evil empire" of communism may have been a good reason for our policies back then, but times have changed, and it's time to reconsider whether the people making trillions off of our militarism should be the ones determining our foreign policy and limiting our domestic policy options.

A