There are no Democrats in the State Of Texas!???

Do not quote me out of context and fabricate words I did not say. Obviously, I never said there are no Democrats in Texas since there are multitudes of candidates who are required to register by Party affiliation; however, voters are not recognized by Party affiliation in the State of Texas.

Texas election law allows registered voters to vote in the primary of only one party in a given election, but as you may have noticed, the registration process does not require that you register as a member of a specific political party, as is the case in some other states. Consequently, you are not required to decide what party primary you will vote in until you arrive at the polls. Most voters, of course, don't put the decision off that long.

https://www.laits.utexas.edu/txp_media/html/part/0601.html

There is no place on a Texas voter registration form for a voter to register by Party. While one is always free to self-identify as a Democrat, Republican, Independent, NPA, Socialist, Communist, or Nazi to their friends and/or fellow citizens, Texas does not recognize nor record said voter's Party affiliation, and as I have stated on multiple occasions, I do not belong to any Party and never will, and your repetitive drivel to the contrary is nothing but your typical labeling bullshit wherein you post lies about others in order to cram them into your descriptive boxes and dismiss them rather than discuss political issues. You can't win an argument if you've got no real argument, and your repetitive fabrication merely proves you'll lie.

Now I KNOW you are full of shit.. :D

And the group KNOWS you will lie, quote posters out of context, buy into the nuttiest right-wing conspiracy theory bullshit and lies of BLOTUS, insist the group is responsible and condones the violence of others, and repeat your bullshit on a regular basis as if each day is new and your repetitive spew hasn't been covered ad nauseam already. :)

There are no Democrats in the State Of Texas!???

BBBWWHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Now I KNOW you are full of shit.. :D

The fact that you always come back to try and defend your destroyed position is proof positive that your position is, indeed, destroyed... :D

You wouldn't know I came back unless you came back yourself. You lose. Your pathetic one-size-fits-all argument doesn't work with me. I'm still not a Democrat and couldn't be one even if I wanted to be because of statutes of the State of Texas. Your obsession with discussing commenters personally rather than discussing actual political issues is again and as always duly noted. :)

You can't win, Veronica... :D

It's not about winning, Michale. Posters are trying to discuss political issues while you hijack their comments and devolve nearly every discussion into the same whiny repetitive rant and obsession about them personally. I'm never going to like your Orange Worship because I have this thing against criminals and traitors to our country, but that still doesn't make me a Democrat. I know it's your go-to argument and if it weren't for that bullshit you've have nothing at all, but you should let it sink in that some people with no party affiliation and some Republicans don't worship at the alter of the cult of personality of Trump... and some of those traitors are going to jail. :)

No you don't actually destroy anyone's position;

The fact that you always come back to try and defend your destroyed position is proof positive that your position is, indeed, destroyed... :D

You can't win, Veronica... :D

Which prompted YOUR claim that you are not..

Same claim, same bullshit, same repetitious nonsensical tedium from you... the irrefutable proof of your inability to grasp a concept that's been covered ad nauseam and move past it; one can only conclude you enjoy appearing brainless.

Texas voters do not register by Party and are allowed to vote in whatever primary we please, one or the other but not both. I've never belonged to either Party, and I've voted for candidates from multiple parties including D, R, I, and even Green Party once. Regardless of your utter nonsensical repetitive bullshit, I couldn't even belong to a Party in Texas if a chose to do so... which I most certainly would not.

You make a claim, you back it up.. That's the rules..

MY claim is already backed up by your incessant, psychotic defense of the Dumbocrat Party and your complete inability to hold them accountable for ANYTHING, up to and including putting forth the MOST shittiest candidate in the history of candidacy...

More total bullshit on your part. I do not generally defend either Party. The majority of my posts here are against the Con Artist in Chief and posting regarding discussion of political issues. You generally hijack them, fail to discuss anything political, and whine incessantly about Party bigotry... as you do with anyone who doesn't bow down at the alter of Your Orange Worship, you simply label a poster a Democrat and bigot. While nearly everyone else is trying to discuss political issues, you're obsessively whining about political affiliation and your hatred of the Democratic Party.

So, since YOU, my dear Veronica, cannot back up your claim that you are not a registered Democrat, that makes you the lying troll..

There is no place on a Texas registration form to even choose a political Party because Texas voters have open primaries. No one can choose a Party even if they wished to do so, and *gag* please refrain from posting the utter nonsensical and completely delusional statement that anyone is your "dear."

Hay, I don't make the rules.. I just destroy your position by them.. :D

No you don't actually destroy anyone's position; you don't have to do that because rather than even discuss political issues, you simply spend your time obsessing about posters and Party affiliation/hypocrisy and labeling and dismissing anyone who doesn't worship at the alter of the cult of personality of Trump. You also insist that BLOTUS is NOT a Republican whilst simultaneously insisting that posters don't like him simply because he IS a Republican... talk about psychotic.

The only thing you actually do destroy here is the flow of dialogue where posters who wish to discuss political issues are bombarded by a steady stream of your hate for the Democratic Party and love and worship for your Orange Idol. You post repetitively about you being "all ears" and quoting Ross Perot, and thanks to you and your repetitive bullshit, mindless drivel, and love and affection of the Orange Prick, I've come to associate you with "that giant sucking sound." :)

If Apple made solar tiles they would look like that.

With their fruit logo every 10th tile, no doubt.

I'm on Tesla's mailing list - checked out their sedan a couple of years ago. They offered me a 200 K red top' of the line for a 24 test! Very tempting, but I wasn't sure my insurance would cover this, logistics were messy - and it really wouldn't have been fair to take them up on a car I couldn't afford in a million years. When the price approaches Prius levels I may jump - especially if it's self driving...nobody will ever have an excuse to put me in a nursing home! Gotta plan ahead.

Heh. You are way braver than me because those self-driving cars occupy a spot very close to the top of my "opposite of and rhymes with bucket list." Having driven nearly every manner of land vehicle out there including an Abrams tank, my brain simply isn't wired to be able to trust a vehicle that would drive me; that is a feature I won't be needing.

Speaking of the Tesla prices approaching Prius levels, the price of the Model 3 approaches loaded Prius range, and I'm looking at maybe getting one. My SO keeps telling me to go ahead and order it, and I keep not doing it. :)

Haven't you got that bass-ackwards? It's actually your "bullshit claim" that I am a Democrat.

Which prompted YOUR claim that you are not..

You make a claim, you back it up.. That's the rules..

MY claim is already backed up by your incessant, psychotic defense of the Dumbocrat Party and your complete inability to hold them accountable for ANYTHING, up to and including putting forth the MOST shittiest candidate in the history of candidacy...

So, since YOU, my dear Veronica, cannot back up your claim that you are not a registered Democrat, that makes you the lying troll..

Hay, I don't make the rules.. I just destroy your position by them.. :D

What happens if an mini ice age happens? We dismantle the floating devices.

So, basically, we close the barn door AFTER the horse has run off...

Should we muck things up? It depends on whether or not you believe we already have and whether we should try to fix what we have already mucked up.

But what if we don't have the knowledge?? Don't you see how dangerous that is??

In the 70s, all the rage was Global Cooling. That was the big shiny and the planet was in danger of imminent destruction back then..

Suppose scientists figured out a way to heat the planet to counter global cooling..

Think of the MESS we would be in now??

If Apple made solar tiles they would look like that. Tough sell to the Architectural Board though: Discontinuity with the rest of the my roofline, and the adjacent units. My home is small and my electrical bill is really tiny - it's about what I pay for internet. The fridge is probably my biggest draw after the AC.

I'm on Tesla's mailing list - checked out their sedan a couple of years ago. They offered me a 200 K red top' of the line for a 24 test! Very tempting, but I wasn't sure my insurance would cover this, logistics were messy - and it really wouldn't have been fair to take them up on a car I couldn't afford in a million years. When the price approaches Prius levels I may jump - especially if it's self driving...nobody will ever have an excuse to put me in a nursing home! Gotta plan ahead.

I'd love to go solar, but my covenant probably wouldn't approve it for aesthetic reasons and the best solar exposure is somewhat blocked anyway.

Tesla Solar: There is no aesthetic substitute. Check them out; they are simply awesome.

https://www.tesla.com/solarroof

Full disclosure: They're prettier glass tiles with a lifetime warranty but at approximately double the cost.

I got a pretty good subsidy on all this: factory rebate, utility rebate, tax credit, lowered the cost by 10%. All gone now. The old system knew just when to die.

Nice. You've got to love those multiple subsidies. I will avail myself of every single one of them and accept every single penny available. I've even acquired a most excellent storm shelter for which FEMA paid half the cost... so when the sirens blow, I am 10 feet underground and safe and sound.

Moral of story: energy efficiency depends at lot on where you live and what you've got...and some random fate.

Oh, yes. :)

Yes, that's your continued bullshit claim..

Haven't you got that bass-ackwards? It's actually your "bullshit claim" that I am a Democrat.

Completely unsubstantiated..

Yes, your claim is "completely unsubstantiated."

And, as a wise Weigantian pointed out..

If you can't back up your claim with facts, you are a lying troll.. :D

Well, okay then... by your own admission you're a "lying troll." You'll get no argument from me on that. :)

For any who are rightly suspicious of model-based or otherwise filtered time series, a well-known but controversial Canadian jet stream expert based at U. of Ottawa this week demonstrated why the popular "alarming" metric of Arctic ice - PIOMAS - must be being calculated with a model that is unquestionably flawed. Using dog-in-the-ring raw US Navy sounding data, he demonstrates that it is not possible that the now-equal published PIOMAS volumes for Aug. 8 2012 and 2017 can both be valid.

I'm not going to post the YouTube video, but you can watch it by searching the token watch?v=bDKHoX0izGE His discussion of PIOMAS is at about 8:45 into the video. The rest of the 15 min video deals with how screwed up the jet streams are.

At this point in time, I absolutely agree. When I wrote of artificially increasing diminished arctic albedo - so called geo- engineering - I used the word "somehow" because most schemes are still coming from techno- Utopians who dismiss the scale and the system's complexity.

There was an original Star Trek where Scotty kept saying the ship didn't "feel right," and kept checking everything but nothing appeared wrong. It turned out that -I don't remember exactly - they were in a parallel universe or something.

It is the same deal in the Arctic for the past few years for the old pros in the military, the sciences, and academics who have spent their lives in the region.

Those folks don't care what the instruments do or do not say. I mentioned Jason Box above; his star dimmed at NOAA the day he emailed, standing and watching from the ice, the way in which a massive iceberg was calving: "Greenland is f*cked." He works for the Danish government now, and has been granted the right to buy property in Greenland.

I'm not going to purse this issue any further.

That said, I'd encourage you to click back to that nullschool link I posted before, every so often. Keep an eye on that gyre just west of the Pole. If that doesn't disappear soon, there won't be any multi-year ice left among the islands when the sun goes down in September.

If that happens, my friend, a few months from now, when the citrus freezes or the shuffleboard courts close due to high temperatures, trust that I'll be the first to say I told you so.

How about a few thousand two tiered plastic floating reflective devices about the size of football fields deployed around the arctic region and south pole? The bottom is black (doesn't break down when exposed to sunlight) and the top is raised up and is white to reflect sunlight and can be replaced when needed to keep it from breaking down and ending up in the ocean.
Some could even have refrigeration devices powered by the motion of the ocean and solar panels to make the ocean water colder.
This might as least slow down the melting and help protect the jetstreams some.

And what happens when the new ice age that is being predicted by the sun's Maunder Minimum actually happens???

All those scientists that worked to make the oceans colder.... "oooops... Our bust.. Sorry about that..."

We don't know enough to know what we don't even know!!

Do you HONESTLY think it's a good idea to start mucking things up, even if we COULD have any kind of effect???

Like buying and selling CO2 credits.

Get that!!?? Morons are buying and selling what people exhale!!!

What's next?? Buying people's farts!!????

The human caused global warming religion is nothing but a Scientologist-esque scam....

https://sunriseswansong.wordpress.com/2017/01/01/arctic-sea-ice-5/

There are a LOT bigger things than humankind that has REAL affect on the planet's climate..

See that big orange thing in the sky during the day??

That's the main one...

It's only human arrogance that says humans can control the planet's climate....

And let's not kid ourselves..

That is *ALL* that the human caused global warming fanaticism has accomplished..

Making the likes of Gore and Branson and lawyers and lobbyists richer...

Forgive me if I misunderstood your basic position.

You are forgiven. :D

I have always maintained that the climate is indeed, changing..

The lack of change I have noted is not climate..

Those sound to me like fairly standard denier positions.

That's because you have bought into the Left Wing smear campaign that tries to equate the Holocaust Denial with the acceptance of facts and reality vis a vis the planet's climate..

What I care about is if there are ways to replace the lost reflectivity from the ice and snow now gone from the Arctic region, either by somehow helping to make it snow or by somehow inceasing reflectivity in the Arctic atmosphere.

IF there was ice and snow gone..

The facts clearly show that the loss of Arctic Ice is highly exxagerated...

That's not denial. That is simply an acknowledgement of the facts.. The Arctic Ice Pack is the same thickness now that it was in 1940...

That's all I'm concerned with regarding conditions in the air and in the ocean. What happens in the Arctic doesn't stay in the Arctic.

Yea, I know.. I have seen THE DAY AFTER TOMORROW too.. :D

But the simple fact is ALL of the predictions and models made and touted by the global warming religious fanatics have been WRONG...

We have a bigger chance of having the planet destroyed by a giant asteroid than we do of having the planet destroyed by the changing of the climate...

It is simply NOT within the realm of the technology of human kind to be able to control the climate of the planet...

SIMPLY.... NOT.... POSSIBLE....

Mother Nature will do what Mother Nature will do and humans are helpless to stop it..

Call me a silly knuckle dragging ground pounder, but I just fail to see how making lobbyists and lawyers and Al Gore and Richard Branson richer is going to help change the climate of the planet...

Spend all those untold trillions on something LOGICAL that would have an EFFECT and then I can see the logic of the position..

But spending those untold trillions on just TALKING about the problem!??

Where is the logic in that???

To sum up...

I don't DENY that the religious-esque fanatics that make up the global warming groups MIGHT be right...

But THEY deny that they COULD be wrong...

So, who are the "deniers"?? Really.....

Forgive me if I misunderstood your basic position. I was lead by my reading of your comments above, which included:

[143] -
There has been no statistically significant warming since 1996..

[120] - So, even if there IS a scientific consensus about human caused global warming.... which there isn't... so what??

Those sound to me like fairly standard denier positions.

I try to stay out of the politicized argument. Climate denial uses the same methodology that tobacco companies did so successfully for so long: attack research as inconclusive or methodologically flawed, and when it becomes too difficult to deflect the public's understanding of the damage, deny any factually established link between those and the causative factor.

I don't care what the political opponents of Big {Oil, Coal, Steel, etc.} are trying to impose on their targets. I don't care what the global average temperature is. I don't care what future "rise" in global average the nations of the world agree is the red-line target for limitations on emissions.

What I care about is if there are ways to replace the lost reflectivity from the ice and snow now gone from the Arctic region, either by somehow helping to make it snow or by somehow inceasing reflectivity in the Arctic atmosphere.

The reason is that is likely the only thing that can restore order to the jet streams. The world's typical, non-extreme, weather patterns literally hang on that order. If that doesn't happen, random occurrences of isolated, extreme weather will continue and accelerate.

Here's an display of the northern hemi's jet streams. In the old days, jet streams circled the globe more or west-to-east, oscillating in so-called Rossby waves, which would produce predictable, forecast-able, weather. In the last five years, they have been fractured for longer and longer events, both winter and summer.

https://earth.nullschool.net/#current/wind/isobaric/250hPa/orthographic=-72.05,87.41,285/loc=-109.321,84.347

Now the base state is chaotic, and what happens is jet stream eddies spin up storms, and the jet stream breaks away so suddenly that the storm then stays in place. "Cuttoff low" is the media term being used to explain to people why they got 4 months of rain in 4 hours.

To the extent the jet stream becomes chaotic, weather will be unpredictably chaotic. That's something that, locally, can freeze crops, or starve them of water. That's something that allows Saharan heat to penetrate and remain in Europe, or equally likely, allows polar cold to penetrate Europe. Animal metabolism rates depend exponentially on ambient temperature, with a "hard" wet bulb threshold where a warm blooded creatures can't regulate body temperatures and the animal / person quickly dies.

That's all I'm concerned with regarding conditions in the air and in the ocean. What happens in the Arctic doesn't stay in the Arctic.

Judging from what I have seen...

Not many.. :^/

So, apparently for your covenant, aesthetics takes priority over the destruction of the planet...

Remind me again of the LOGIC of that???

I'd love to go solar, but my covenant probably wouldn't approve it for aesthetic reasons and the best solar exposure is somewhat blocked anyway.

But, I did replace my 20 YO HVAC system and the results are impressive. It's basically halved my electricity and gas bills. I figure payback in around 10 years.

My cooling is regulated to relative humidity now, not temperature, which floats a bit within defined limits. This is far more comfortable than the old thermostatic regulation, even though my temperature in summer tends to peak at around 78 degrees F....setting a lower temperature limit feels a bit chilly. My old system had return air ducts that were too small. This is fairly common and significantly lowers system efficiency, so I modernized 'em.

Spec-ing the new system revealed a code violation. My AC condenser was located too close to my gas line. Relays arc, so having them next to a gas line probably isn't a great idea. So I moved the condenser, which is a huge box compared to the old one, but much quieter. My neighbor likes this, it doesn't impact me much.

I got a pretty good subsidy on all this: factory rebate, utility rebate, tax credit, lowered the cost by 10%. All gone now. The old system knew just when to die.

Looked into more insulation: not cost effective.

Looked into an infrared barrier for my attic space. This is a close call, cost savings in the summer, but solar load on my roof lowers my heating bill in winter. Cost neutral, but if my local climate zone goes more southern I'll reconsider.

I replaced nearly all my lighting with LED 3 years ago. 2 exceptions - oven and refrigerator lights.
Payback probably a decade, rebates and bulk buys on the internet really help. Payback 10 yrs, but far fewer ascensions on step ladders or mucking about with a pole in the great room (which is most of my house).

Full disclosure: I drive a Prius. It's elegant, smooth and actually accelerates to highway speed very briskly...the electric motor acts like a turbo charger. Fill it up about every 3 weeks...9 gallons.

I do miss my old Miata AKA "the useless car" according to wife. Yes, but you didn't drive it, you wore it. Pretty good commuter car and good gas mileage.

Moral of story: energy efficiency depends at lot on where you live and what you've got...and some random fate.

I am ALWAYS open to other interpretations. :D As long as they have FACTS to back them up.. :D

In that interpretation Dems are still not as bad.

Good point..

So I guess you would agree with me that it's all about the spin.. :D

less weight
less athleticism = lower accelerations
greater brain plasticity = better brain resilience

So, you would disagree with that moron who claims letting their children play football is tantamount to child abuse??

"High quality MRI scans and the like are very likely going to show that your head and brain are to be protected, especially during early years."

I think you are correct in your assumption, but youth sport participants have three factors protecting them:

less weight
less athleticism = lower accelerations
greater brain plasticity = better brain resilience

The fundamental problem facing modern pro football is that competitive teams are composed of massive sprinters who collide at full tilt over and over again.

You don't see anything approaching this level of specialized athleticism in younger kids...although a few high school players seem to be on the cusp. As a parent I would worry most about mismatches...but as a parent you worry about pretty much everything.

But A> a half-hearted approach is better than a NO-Hearted approach, eh?

And 2> Their approach is better than the Dumbocrat approach.. :D

And as explained here before, the money is just the starting point.

But that's the beauty of the Trump approach.. It's NOT about the money.. It's about the support.. The entire article lays that out quite succinctly...

Even if Trump did meet the financing conditions the rest of what he stands for disqualifies him from getting my vote. If he were the only small contribution candidate on my ballot I would still cast a write in vote.

That would seem to dilute your efforts to get politicians onto the ONE DEMAND bandwagon...

They have to be ONE with you on EVERY issue.....

In 2016, his campaign raised more than $281 million from grass-roots donors—an amount surpassed only by President Obama’s 2012 reelection campaign, which pulled in $329 million from small donations. But whereas donors who gave $200 or less comprised roughly 30 percent of the overall amount raised for Obama’s campaigns, small donors provided more than 53 percent of Trump’s campaign money, compared with just 21 percent for Hillary Clinton. Trump’s success here is even more impressive than it might seem at first glance: He didn’t start actively fundraising from grass-roots supporters until June 2016, giving him just five months to establish a small-dollar fundraising machine that went toe-to-toe with those that Obama, Clinton, and Sanders each took at least a year to build.

Don, sounds to me like Donald Trump is your kinda candidate..

Over half of his contributions are EXACTLY the kind of contributions you are looking for...

It looks like a Political Party has taken your ONE DEMAND idea to heart...

Over the first six months of 2017, the Republican National Committee pulled in $75 million—nearly twice as much money as the Democratic National Committee, which raised $38 million. The predicament isn’t simply that there is a funding gap between the parties; it’s what kind of money they attract. Republicans have quietly taken a decisive edge over Democrats when it comes to small-dollar fundraising.

During that same six-month time span, the RNC raised $33 million in small contributions—money from people who donate $200 or less over an election cycle—while that same class of donors gave the DNC just $21 million.
http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2017/08/10/the-democratic-partys-looming-fundraising-crisis-215474

The problem for ya'all is that it's the wrong Party.. :D

Intolerant Democrats Devour Their Own
The party’s left wing wants to purge anyone opposed to abortion or single-payer health.
https://www.wsj.com/articles/intolerant-democrats-devour-their-own-1502320565

Howz that "Better Deal" carp workin' out for ya'all?? :D

GOP has their problems, sure..

But that doesn't mean it's buckets o' sunshine for the Dumbocrat Party...

:D

And THIS is the deal ya'all wanted the US to be a part of??

Are ya'all daft!???

This is what ya'all don't get...

THIS is what your Democrat Party has become...

Are you tired of winning yet?
In the long march to remaking American greatness, President Trump has certainly attracted plenty of scorn and ridicule from all the predictable and boring corners over all the predictable and boring nonissues.
Russian roulette doesn’t really work without at least a single bullet. Without a bullet, the gun will never be found smoking. But — as ever among lazy leftists — ignorance of guns and how they work is celebrated as the highest virtue.
Yet amid the cacophony from the swamp, a few uncorrupted observers are starting to notice something shocking to them.
Despite all the Sturm und Drang from the crazy political press, President Trump is actually making real, concrete progress toward Making America Great Again. And, shocker of shockers, he appears to be that rare political actor who is determined to actually keep the promises he made to voters.
In no area is there more winning going on right now than Mr. Trump’s promised crackdown on immigration, both legal and illegal.
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2017/aug/8/homeland-security-has-improved-under-trump/

Making America Great Again...

:D

Their Commander In Chief has issued them an order..

If they can't obey orders, they have no right to serve in the US Military...

According to the Associated Press, a news release says the cake was valued at $25-$30. Sheriff's spokesman Deputy Gilbert Acciardo says employees confronted the pair, but Messer used profane language to tell them it was now his cake. Acciardo says Messer asked if "We're really going to jail for this?" upon his arrest.
http://www.wdrb.com/story/36097070/teens-allegedly-stole-ice-cream-cake-from-london-ky-dunkin-donuts-as-part-of-social-media-prank

Like I said.. Welcome to your new Democrat Party.. :^/

The NY Grime guilty of massive fear-mongering and totally bullshit anti-Trumpism!!???

Say it ain't so!!!! :D

Just more facts that proves the claim that those who push the human caused global warming con are nothing but fanatical zealots..

So, you fabricate on a prolific basis, proving nothing beyond the fact your willingness to lie frequently. I'm not a Democrat. I've never belonged to a Party, and I never will.

Yes, that's your continued bullshit claim..

Completely unsubstantiated..

And, as a wise Weigantian pointed out..

If you can't back up your claim with facts, you are a lying troll.. :D

I apologize if I snipped in a snippy way that gave that implication. With all due respect to michale, I don't really follow discussions about climate when deniers are in the mix.

Who has denied that there is climate???

Who has denied that the climate is changing??

You are much MUCH too intelligent to use the Straw Man Tie To Holocaust argument...

There are numerous scientists both in academics and government who have had their points of view surpressed.

Why Yes. Yes there is...

And you have to ask yourself WHY their views and points and science is being suppressed...

No.. Tiny minds just believe whatever their Party tells them to believe..

It's even worse than that. Really tiny minds believe a pathological lying con artist who spent the majority of his life belonging to another Party; he knew exactly where to go to find them and how to exploit them for his own enrichment. John Miller, John Barron, Trump U, Benedict Donald... a con by any other name... there's simply no one he won't exploit/throw under the bus in his relentless pursuit of his own interests.

So, I guess you are another one who would let 20 millions souls die while you worked out the cost/benefit analysis of giving away life-saving drugs for free...

So, I know you are one who would make up utter nonsense about someone in order to prove absolutely nothing beyond your propensity to fabricate. Interesting, though, to hear you whine now about the "cost/benefit analysis of giving away life-saving drugs for free" when you whine incessantly about government-subsidized health care. Drugs aren't "free"... many somebodies somewhere are providing the capital and manpower to produce, manufacture, distribute, and administer them to individuals... and someone somewhere is paying for them, and in this country it's generally United States consumers/taxpayers.

Now I ask you: Which of us here in Weigantia are on record multiple times as favoring government-subsidized health care, which I can assure you includes "life-saving drugs," and which of us aren't? Of course, the majority of us here support single-payer health care and wouldn't give two shits about the "cost/benefit analysis blah, blah, blah" of providing "free" medical care to millions... and we're obviously already on record as opposing any efforts to take away "free" and subsidized health care from millions of Americans. Not that it's whatsoever a new development, but you don't seem to have thought that one through.

Like I said.. It's no wonder your Dumbocrats can't win elections..

So, you fabricate on a prolific basis, proving nothing beyond the fact your willingness to lie frequently. I'm not a Democrat. I've never belonged to a Party, and I never will.

And yet... It's NOT happening that way??

Yes, it actually is. The United States crossed one million households with solar energy in early 2016. Your ignorance regarding this issue doesn't change the facts.

http://www.businessinsider.com/solar-panels-one-million-houses-2015-10

Why is that??

Because you seem woefully uninformed regarding a multitude of subjects that require nothing more than cracking a book or searching the Internet.

Because the technology isn't ready for deployment..

The technology is deployed on Neil's home, several of my neighbors homes, and soon to be deployed on my homes. It pays for itself over a relatively short period of time, particularly when government entities are offering rebates/credits to taxpayers/consumers who deploy them.

All of ya'all's obfuscations ignore the salient point..

IF the planet is in imminent danger of destruction, the *ONLY* course of action that makes ANY kind of logical sense is to give this stuff away for free in a valiant attempt to stave off said imminent planetary destruction..

Say, you're whining a lot lately about getting things for "free." You seem blissfully unaware that somebody somewhere is paying for the manufacture, production, installation, etc., and do you realize that in the United States this generally ultimately means taxpayers?Are you willing to pay higher taxes to subsidize "free" solar panels and/or "free" life-saving drugs? I'm guessing not. So the compromise to those who would scream, "Why should I be forced to pay higher taxes for Neil's solar panels" is that the government will partially subsidize them. It's not indicative of their importance; it's indicative of compromise.

Very little things in life are actually "free," although sunlight is actually one of them. If only they could produce photovoltaic cells that convert sunlight directly into electricity. Oh, wait!

The fact that ya'all don't support this plan PROVES that ya'all don't REALLY believe that the planet is in any imminent danger of being destroyed..

Who said we didn't support the plan? As Neil explained, he got a huge tax rebate of $10,000, and I would be willing to bet $1,000,000 that Neil would have accepted a $30,000 rebate that covered the entire cost, making them "free." I can assure you I will be installing solar panels and taking the huge tax credit/rebate/deduction in the near future, and I would gladly accept their entire cost.

Make sure you clean up all that brown stuff off your nose and wipe yer mouth... :D

Perhaps you just pulled your head out of your ass for the thousandth time, and you're explaining your ritual to the rest of us. :)

I appreciated what Neil posted and the time it took him to explain it in such detail; leave it to you to turn a "thank you" into something sick. You should try it sometimes instead of your usual BS; it's one of those free things you keep whining about lately. :)

I apologize if I snipped in a snippy way that gave that implication. With all due respect to michale, I don't really follow discussions about climate when deniers are in the mix.

There are numerous scientists both in academics and government who have had their points of view surpressed. I'll give two names, one from each profession, and others who are putting out their work via one pseudonym.

One is Guy McPhearson, who is an Emeritus Professor at the University of Arizona. He was among the first to assert that non-linear effects ("feedback loops") would destroy habitat to such a degree that industrial civilization will experience disruptions that will lead to death rates leading to human extinction during this century. Clearly, this is not a popular position. He currently lives in Belize.

Another is Jason Box, a glaciologist, himself an ex- academic, who was principal author/editor from 2008-2012, of the Greenland section of NOAA's annual State of the Climate report. At that point, his predictions of sea level rise, on the basis of accelerations in Greenland's glacial melt and movement, became too dire. He now works for the Geological Survey of Denmark and Greenland.

The third is the person or persons writing under the name Sam Carana. His/their blog is http://arctic-news.blogspot.com , although if you look at that blog's "About" page, that name appears at the end of a long list. I just now noticed that the first name in that list is former Head of the Polar Ocean Physics Group at the University of Cambridge.

That list is a good place to look for scientists who dispute the linearity of the modeling and whose work was accordingly, regularly sidelined or maligned. Only now is that dispute being given mainstream consideration, because even casual empiricism is proving them far, far, too conservative, and even scientists have some sense of shame.

And if ANYONE would know about drawing "absurd red lines" it would be a Dumbocrat!! :D

Apparently Republicans can draw absurd red lines also, most recently the current president who criticized the prior president for doing so. If you've criticized the drawing of red lines, why in the hell are you criticizing Engel for doing exactly what you've done yourself on multiple occasions?

Of course, THIS Dumbocrat didn't give a carp about 'absurd red lines' and American credibility when his buddy Odumbo was doing it..

Prove it. Seriously... prove it.

If your aim is to prove that somebody is a hypocrite for not criticizing someone who set a red line when he is on record criticizing somebody else who did, then I'd say that you and Representative Engel have a lot in common.

So, why should Engel think HE has any credibility???

So why do you think YOU have any credibility? Putting words in people's mouths and claiming they believe something they may or may not believe says exponentially more about you than it does anyone else.

You really can't know everything that people think or believe, regardless of what they will or will not share in public or on the Internet. I have a neighbor with the most beautiful blue eyes I've ever seen; I can assure you that he'll never hear that from me, although I have admired his solar panels on more than one occasion. :)

Just wanted to let everyone know there's a new column up (a REAL column, even!).

http://tinyurl.com/y7r8cyeq

-CW

I do not believe that the scientists you are referring to qualify among those saying that it's pointless to do anything about climate change because it's too late... the fringe to which I was referring.

If the scientists to which you are referring are being sidelined or ignored, that is news to me and I would love a link, as that is not an effort I would join or support... which you seem to be saying I was unintentionally doing.

There is widespread recognition that previous predictions for the arctic were too optimistic, and that what is being observed is occurring faster than climate models suggested.

There is also a consensus that what was agreed in the Paris Accord is insufficient to address the problem.

The BBC just had a disturbing article about greenhouse gas releases being reported well below actual releases.

"Dodgy GHG data threatens Paris Accord"

http://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-40669449

There's also a story today on BBC about peat fires burning in Greenland to an extent never seen before.

A

"We all stand at our desks now - sitting is the new tobacco."

Welcome to your new Democrat Party... :D

Why not??

It's obvious that ODUMBO's failed leadership didn't accomplish anything but accelerate NK's ascension to a bona fide nuclear power..

Under Odumbo, they were predicting that it would take a decade for the little runt to have miniaturization and ICBM capability..

Capabilities he has now...

Score another one for Odumbo "leadership"....

Quite right - most of us expected that an adult couldn't control the whiny brat, and I assume most of us expected it to only take a week for the puerile clown to prove us right.

I don't think headers are in the same league, but soccer probably ought to ban them, at least for youngsters.

High quality MRI scans and the like are very likely going to show that your head and brain are to be protected, especially during early years.

I'm assuming that alcohol is going to start to be treated like tobacco soon - too late for me but probably future generations will treat it the same way that my generation treated heroin or cocaine - to be used with extreme caution if at all.

BTW, a snippet overheard from one of my friends 27 year old daughters who works in SF talking about office work:

"We all stand at our desks now - sitting is the new tobacco."

Man I'm getting old - especially as I'm sitting with a glass of wine as I type ;)

Actually, it sounds yummy... :D

Don't you think that secular humanism is yummy
-Allison Gardner, BEDAZZLED

:D

The American Association of Neurology released a preview of a study examining 40 retired NFL players ranging in age from 27 to 56 years. The majority had been out of the game for less than 5 years.

High resolution MRI scans indicated neurological damage in 40% of the players. Longer careers were statistically associated with greater damage. Number of reported career concussions was not correlated with brain injury.

Cognitive tests of executive function, memory, concentration, learning, and spatial and perceptual functions closely mirrored the MRI findings.

Football is not going to be able to engineer it's way out of neurological hazard with better training and equipment. Accelerations are just too high. The game is going to have to change substantially or become marginalized like boxing.

I don't think headers are in the same league, but soccer probably ought to ban them, at least for youngsters.

About the whiskey on the gums. I was probably one of the last of those kids, in the early 1950's, at 2AM on advice to my mom from my pediatrician. Johnny Walker was in the liquor cabinet. I still like it well enough, but prefer single malts.

Not for children.. :D

Roy Spencer has appeared on Rush Limbaugh and is regarded as a climate denier by most scientists yet even he thinks the RSS feed is incorrect.

So, can't argue the facts so argue the messenger. :D

I could list a dozen different REAL scientists who prove the same thing...

If I thought it would do any good..

I would 'ave more luck convincing fanatical christians that there is no god.. :D

I'll also change your mind about haggis, if that is also required.

My favorite dish is haggis. Heart, lungs, liver. You shove that all in a sheep's stomach, than you boil it. That'll put some hair on your ass!
-Max, ARMAGEDDON

:D

Turns out they use different climate models to take the raw data and convert it to temperatures:

http://www.drroyspencer.com/latest-global-temperatures/

Roy Spencer has appeared on Rush Limbaugh and is regarded as a climate denier by most scientists yet even he thinks the RSS feed is incorrect.

Inconvenient?

I cannot believe you think whisky has no redeeming value. My Scottish soul is wounded ;)

Come over to my house any January 25th when I have my Burns Supper and I promise to change your mind ;)

I'll also change your mind about haggis, if that is also required.

Facts don't lie, people.. Only Democrats do.. :D

Touche' :D

No they are not.. There has been no statistically significant warming since 1996..

It was only when your so-called "scientists" started tweaking and adjusting the data to fit the theory, were ya'all able to claim that temps are going up..

Virtually *ALL* of the warming you are claiming comes from the tweaks and adjustments..

This is well documented as fact..

Currently the sun activity is stable, we are an average distance from the sun (milankovitch cycles) but our CO2 levels are rising and we are experiencing warming.

No, we are not..

Science and reality.

No.. Political correctness...

As opposed to Dumbocrats who ONLY want good little drones that will do and think as they are told... ;D

Present company excepted.....

Of course.. :D

Yup. The climate deniers are ignoring reality.

Global average temperatures are going up. CO2 is the forcing factor as the other factors are either mostly steady or actually forcing a decrease.

Let's look at your current argument: Anthropomorphic CO2 couldn't have caused prior warming because there were no humans then.

Let's use your house as an analogy. The temperature in your house is governed by (1) your HVAC, (2) the outside temperature and (3) the your windows (open or closed).

We are going with a simple model here to make a point.

One day the outside temperature is 70, the windows are open, but your HVAC is on full heating mode. Your house is at 90, and the forcing factor is the HVAC.

You realize your mistake, and switch off the HVAC. However the temperature outside goes to 90 and so does your house. Now the forcing factor is the outside temperature because your windows are open.

You close your windows and the next day the outside temperature drops back to 70, but the sun is blazing through your windows and the temperature goes up to 90.

All three days the temperature was 90. Each day there was a different forcing factor.

This is how things like sun activity (your HVAC), milankovitch cycles (outside temperature), and CO2 (closing your windows) can all cause global warming.

Currently the sun activity is stable, we are an average distance from the sun (milankovitch cycles) but our CO2 levels are rising and we are experiencing warming.

Science and reality.

Giving children whiskey shots has absolutely NO REDEEMING VALUE whatsoever...

I am sure as a volunteer sports referee you recognize the value of team sports for a child's growth and maturity...

Your comparison is apples and Eskimos...

I just find it funny how Dumbocrats have absolutely NO PROBLEM with ripping fetuses out of women, but gasp like little wussies at the mere thought of organized children's sports...

I've been wondering about this. The research found brain injuries in 110 of 111 professional players studied and 177 of the total 202 former players at all levels. This was of brains of deceased players donated by their families, so this was not a random study and conclusions should be taken as in need of a lot of further research.

In my local soccer league "heading" the ball is now banned for under 12 year olds (I'm a volunteer referee and so I got instructions to call an infringement if a player under 12 headed the ball starting last year).

We will see how this goes. I'm pretty sure a parent would be charged with child abuse if they regularly gave their kids whisky shots with every meal, however not so many years ago doctors in Scotland would "recommend" rubbing babies gums with a finger dipped in whisky to help with teething.

I'm surprised you want all Republicans to inflict brain damage on their kids however Michale - but since y'all want them to stop going to University now I suppose your party is for dumbing down their kids so they will all be incapacitated enough to vote Republican in the future ;)

Unlike Blotus and his criminal family and cronies.

NY MAG....

'Nuff said..

I can find something on Brietbart that says just the opposite..

And it's JUST as reliable.. :D

No worries ;)

On the contrary, science and reality are my ONLY things..

It's ya'all who have a problem with it because you ignore the fact that your so-called "scientists" have to adjust and tweak the data to come out with the politically proper "solution"..

Virtually *ALL* of the warming that you point to COMES from the tweaks and adjustments...

When those politically correct tweaks and adjustments are discarded, global temps plummet...

This is documented fact...

Facts clearly show who has the problem with REAL science and who does not :D

Dr. Bennet Omalu, a neuropathologist and expert in the study of the effects of concussions, recently reacted to the study that found 110 of 111 former NFL players who had their brains donated suffered from chronic traumatic encephalopathy (CTE). He said that letting children play football is the definition of “child abuse,” and doesn’t believe there is any way to make the sport safer.
http://boston.cbslocal.com/2017/08/08/concussion-expert-football-child-abuse-cte-nfl/

This is why Dumbocrats are morons...

Science and reality aren't really your thing.

No worries ;)

Unlike Blotus and his criminal family and cronies.

Michale I've been explaining reality to you for too long for me to expect you to accept what the scientific process says when you don't like the results.

That's just the problem.. You aren't explaining the "scientific process".. You are explain YOUR justification for ignoring the REAL science that doesn't conform to your ideology..

The REAL scientific process is to adjust a theory to fit the data..

FACTS prove beyond any doubt that you Democrats adjust your data to fit your theory...

How can you even CONSIDER that to be a valid "scientific process"??

Other people may enjoy the attached article however as it articulates clearly what is happening to the Republican Party and was written by an ex-GOP precinct Committeeman who can't accept what the Party of rationality has become.

Other people here enjoy the attached article because it says EXACTLY what they want to hear...

That is all..

As I said, I'm a realist. There is too much money in politics, and if you read some of my earlier comments (e.g. [91] above) you know that I understand that.

I admire your vision and persistence on this, and do support you, but I don't see your approach as having a realistic chance of success, sadly for both of us and the country as a whole.

I give money to the politicians I vote for and I don't ask for anything in return. The amounts are well within the $2,700 limit. I give at the local and national level for each politician, so they are basically a rounding error in their total fundraising efforts, but at least I'm putting my money where my mouth is.

If everybody gave only $10 to each of their congressperson candidate, senatorial candidate, and presidential candidate when they voted the need for big money would evaporate.

Even better, if everybody made their voting decisions based on a minimum of basic research instead of their "gut" and the ads they watched on TV, money in politics would be meaningless - any residual amounts would be under extreme scrutiny because instead of going to "fund raising accounts" we would know that they are for corruption.

So we can have:

One Demand: only vote for politicians who don't accept big money (e.g. more than $1,000 per validated source)

Money-Where-Your-Mouth-Is: Everybody donates at least $10 to everybody they vote for

Enlightened Voting: People take politics seriously, even if only for one week every two years.

All three require an apathetic public to become minimally engaged, and this is where my "realism" kicks in. Sadly the biggest flaw in the machine are the damn humans.

And your "scientific process" completely lines up with your political ideology..

What are the odds that THAT would happen??

Climate change is real and it is caused primarily by human activity.

And what caused Climate Change when humans weren't around??

Explain the explosion of CO2 but temps aren't rising..

You STILL haven't addressed that..

) Race still skews economic outcomes in the United States.

Yea, that's the claim.. But no facts to back it up that can't be explained by other criteria...

Inadvertently, you prove my point..

Your scientific beliefs are COMPLETELY in line with your political beliefs...

And, the facts clearly show that if there is EVER a conflict, you adjust your scientific beliefs to match your political beliefs..

Your belief in human caused global warming is a perfect example...

It's the same thing as adjusting the data to fit the theory..

REAL science does just the opposite...

No, it is simpler than that. My understanding of reality is based on conclusions that follow from the scientific process, and so I don't need to believe anything. Many other people have the same understanding because of the same process.

Currently the Republican Party has lost its marbles, so they collect all sorts of interpretations of reality, few of which agree.

There is an old observation that if civilization restarted from scratch the science books would be the same as ours but the Bibles would all be different.

Until the Republican Party accepts scientific reality again, they have lost my vote. I'm not a Democrat, I'm a realist, and in our current two Party system where third parties have no feasible route to power, the Democrats are the only choice.

Here are four beliefs that will ensure you cannot win a Republican primary at the moment:

1) Climate change is real and it is caused primarily by human activity.

To read where the above four came from I recommend this article:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/chrisladd/2017/07/20/why-republicans-cannot-replace-the-aca-or-accomplish-anything-else/#78eca1142776

All of ya'all's scientific beliefs completely and utterly line up with ya'all's (NEN) Party and ideological beliefs..

The odds of that happening are astronomical..

Ergo, the ONLY logical conclusion is that ya'all's Party zealotry determines ya'all's scientific beliefs...

Of course, NEN... :D

No.. Tiny minds just believe whatever their Party tells them to believe..

So, I guess you are another one who would let 20 millions souls die while you worked out the cost/benefit analysis of giving away life-saving drugs for free...

Like I said.. It's no wonder your Dumbocrats can't win elections..

Picture a world where the company selling a solar product employs people who work for a living provided by selling their skill to the solar product company in exchange for a paycheck for the sale and installation of said product... and bonus... a lot of these guys are veterans. Win-win. The solar product company's profits pay local, state, and federal taxes, employees, etc. Win-win. The guy who buys the solar product is... let's say... Neil. Neil's priority is saving himself money, but regardless of his stated priority, Neil will be helping to save the planet (all kinds of ways) whether it's his priority or not. Win-win-win. Neil helps to employ veterans, save the planet in all kinds of ways, and save himself money... doesn't even matter what his primary motivation is.

Now multiply Neil x 100.
Now multiply Neil x 1,000.
Now multiply Neil x 100,000.
Now multiply Neil x 1,000,000.

And yet... It's NOT happening that way??

Why is that??

Because the technology isn't ready for deployment..

All of ya'all's obfuscations ignore the salient point..

IF the planet is in imminent danger of destruction, the *ONLY* course of action that makes ANY kind of logical sense is to give this stuff away for free in a valiant attempt to stave off said imminent planetary destruction..

The fact that ya'all don't support this plan PROVES that ya'all don't REALLY believe that the planet is in any imminent danger of being destroyed..

Or ya'all just like saying the opposite of what I say... :D

Thanks for all your posts about this subject, Neil; they were extremely helpful and much appreciated. :)

Jeesus....

Make sure you clean up all that brown stuff off your nose and wipe yer mouth... :D

And if ANYONE would know about drawing "absurd red lines" it would be a Dumbocrat!! :D

Of course, THIS Dumbocrat didn't give a carp about 'absurd red lines' and American credibility when his buddy Odumbo was doing it..

So, why should Engel think HE has any credibility???

Poor logic. Try again, this time take the huge Republican bias off your thinking and that might help make rational decisions.

Add to that the fact that tiny minds generally think of issues in terms of black and white, either this or that, one or the other, and can't generally fathom the concept that almost everything is not simply a choice between two things. It would serve them well to take a breath, stretch the boundaries of their little brains and imagine a world where things aren't overly simplified... it's easy if you try... because we're living in it.

Picture a world where the company selling a solar product employs people who work for a living provided by selling their skill to the solar product company in exchange for a paycheck for the sale and installation of said product... and bonus... a lot of these guys are veterans. Win-win. The solar product company's profits pay local, state, and federal taxes, employees, etc. Win-win. The guy who buys the solar product is... let's say... Neil. Neil's priority is saving himself money, but regardless of his stated priority, Neil will be helping to save the planet (all kinds of ways) whether it's his priority or not. Win-win-win. Neil helps to employ veterans, save the planet in all kinds of ways, and save himself money... doesn't even matter what his primary motivation is.

Now multiply Neil x 100.
Now multiply Neil x 1,000.
Now multiply Neil x 100,000.
Now multiply Neil x 1,000,000.

I didn't install solar panels to save the planet. I did so to save money.

It matters not your motivation; as you know, you're helping to do that regardless. For those who for whatever reason aren't interested in saving the planet, maybe saving money and doing their part to help gainfully employ veterans would be their motivator, but they'll still be helping to improve air quality, etc.

https://energy.gov/eere/sunshot/solar-ready-vets

For the same reason I just bought a ICE car that gets about 40 mpg - it is cheaper over the next 10 years in total cost than a hybrid or an electric and, once you count in the CO2 used to generate electricity, is basically a very close option from an environmental perspective.

And maybe next time you go to replace or add a vehicle to your household, technology might have evolved to the point where it will be more cost effective to purchase a 100% EV and make your own fuel off the roof of your home. *sigh*

I ride my bike to save money, get fit, and it helps the environment at the same time.

Yes... exactly! I'll bet you also take some beautiful scenic routes on your bike and enjoy our beautiful country too... some well-deserved R&R. It's not an "either this or that" proposition like simple minds want to insist is the case... it's all of the above and not limited thereto.

Thanks for all your posts about this subject, Neil; they were extremely helpful and much appreciated. :)

I don't know if this will post well, but here are my electricity numbers that I used to model the solar decision and track the progress.

It posted fine, and... dang... that is simply awesome, Neil. I am duly impressed. :)

Also, you can get free solar already in California - you basically rent out your roof space and a company puts their panels up and gives you a break on your electricity.

Got to love it... California leading the nation in energy issues. Isn't it California with regulations regarding roofs with solar reflectance? *looking for link*

http://www.energy.ca.gov/2012publications/CEC-400-2012-003/CEC-400-2012-003-BR.pdf

Texas has no such rules/regulations, but I voluntarily chose a roof with SR when I replaced the roof on my Texas property... one good hail storm that finally finished off that 20-year-old roof. My insurance company didn't bat an eye and paid for the SR roof I selected. I was told it might result in up to 20% savings, which turned out to be way off the mark. Making no other changes whatsoever with the exception of the "cool roof," it actually slashed my energy bill by 1/3... pretty darned awesome.

I then got industrious and decided to replace every single light bulb -- and I mean all of them -- with LEDs, and that simple change along with my SR roof produced about an overall 40% reduction in electricity costs. I won't bore with details, but I made a few other inexpensive changes, and I have cut my electricity bill smooth in half... it feels like getting "free electricity" because the cost to make all these changes was fairly minimal.

Also three years ago when I put my panels up the total cost was $30,000, but I got a $10,000 rebate. The panels are saving me about $2,300/year for a payback period of under 9 years.

Wow... Now that is bloody awesome! :)

There is, of course, the oldie but goodie how "scientists" swore up and down that the earth was flat...

Remember when "scientists" swore on a stack of bibles that smoking was actually GOOD for you...

Saccharine.. Caused cancer.. Didn't cause cancer.. Caused cancer...

Cell phones.. Perfectly safe... Then caused ear cancer.. Then perfectly safe again..

High fiber diet.. "Scientists" claimed that a high fiber diet significantly reduced the chances of colon cancer.. Oops.. 20 years later, such a claim is not scientifically supported..

In the past, the "scientific consensus" was that life began at conception... We know now that no such consensus exists..

And the list goes on and on of "scientific consensus" that turned out to be dead on ballz wrong...

So, even if there IS a scientific consensus about human caused global warming.... which there isn't... so what??

It's not as if scientists haven't been MASSIVELY wrong in the past, eh??

Exactly....

No, I am referring to facts..

New York magazine recently featured an article which included quotes from one such character and he was in fact condemned by the scientific community.

Yes.. That's one example... But I can point to DOZENS of garbage articles that were actually supported by the so-called "scientists"...

And I think it's fairly certain they'd get the same treatment here if CW quoted them or gave them a guest column.

I have posted DOZENS of articles of gloom and doom by hysterical global warming "scientists"...

All were fully supported by Weigantians...

You also may be confused by the word imminent.

No, I am fairly confident of my definition of "imminent"...

You may believe it means next year or something, but affecting this generation, or by 2100 is usually how it is framed, and scientists consider that imminent on a geological time scale.

So, you believe that the planet is going to be destroyed in 83 years if we don't give trillions of dollars to the likes of Al Gore and Richard Branson, et al...

Yea... THAT's logical.. :^/

For reasons which go back to my days flying across the North Atlantic, I have had an interest in the Arctic. The "fringe scientists" are mainly those who observe and measure arctic amplification (search terms). Changes in and around the Arctic Ocean are happening very rapidly at this point.

These include Americans, Danes, Norwegians, and Russians. They're rejected by institutionally harbored academic science because their work is empirical, and they make public their beliefs about the flaws in current climate models. They claim those flaws result in the models quite generally predicting situations with horizons far longer than will be, and are being, observed. These situations include melted permafrost, methane release, and an ice-free Arctic Ocean.

Interestingly, the same opinion is held by, among others who are not fringe-anything, including such invested parties as the Chief of Naval Operations in 2014. He commissioned Task Force Climate Change, and wrote in the Executive Summary of its Report (here http://greenfleet.dodlive.mil/files/2014/02/USN-Arctic-Roadmap-2014.pdf ):

Today, the observed changes in the Arctic Region climate and the reduced extent of summer sea ice reveal the potential for the Arctic Ocean to [attract] infrastructure development and commercial investment, resource exploitation, fishing, and tourism.

Over the last four years, Task Force Climate Change, in consultation and collaboration with the broader governmental and private scientific communities, has concluded that ice conditions in the Arctic Ocean are changing more rapidly than first anticipated.

The militaries of Russia, Canada, Denmark, Norway and the USA are having to accept the reality because they border the Bering and Fram Straits into the Arctic Ocean, and all of them are talking about joint protection and patrol of the ice free channels, which should appear within one or two years. That, according to the Navy and also lots of "fringe" scientists you can listen to or read on the net.

Bill Clinton?
Ha.
NAFTA selling, New Deal attacking neoliberal.

Whoever you're quoting is ignorant or purposefully perpetuating a myth.

A

You are either referring to some on the fringe, or to people (who are not scientists) trying to raise money or make money selling doom and gloom books.
As I understand it, right wing sites have taken to promoting such types in order to feed their agenda and straw man arguments.

New York magazine recently featured an article which included quotes from one such character and he was in fact condemned by the scientific community.

And I think it's fairly certain they'd get the same treatment here if CW quoted them or gave them a guest column. But he doesn't, and the folks here have no obligation to respond to random quacks out in the ether... and I'd bet that like me, few here read let alone follow any links you provide to climate denier articles.

You also may be confused by the word imminent.
You may believe it means next year or something, but affecting this generation, or by 2100 is usually how it is framed, and scientists consider that imminent on a geological time scale.

A

Apparently James Hodgkison learned that lesson very well...

NO ONE denies that climate change is real..

NO.... ONE....

Anyone who TRIES to make that argument is a moron that is clueless about reality...

That makes us the only country in the entire world with a leader that denies climate change is real!

"You can't fix stoopid"
-Ron White

Or... if you prefer...

"Here's your sign..."
-Bill Engvall

As opposed to GOING to school and being dumb and susceptible to the Dumbocrat argument which consists of destroy, attack and kill anything or anyone you disagree with...

I think it is important to look at the two other countries (Syria and Nicaragua) and the reasons that they chose not to sign the Paris Accord.

Syria is in the midst of a bloody civil war. There is no reason for any country to sign on to this accord unless it has a stable government that can commit to the goals stated. They aren't in a position to really make long term goals about their carbon footprint when they are just trying to survive day to day.

Nicaragua is the other nation that chose not to sign. I believe the reason that they chose not to sign was that they did not feel the Paris Accord did enough to fight climate change! It's not that they deny climate change is real, they have no doubt that it is a real threat; they just want everyone to do more to combat it!

That makes us the only country in the entire world with a leader that denies climate change is real! Think about how stupid that makes us look. Trump: Making America a Giant Asshat!

For those that accept the danger to the climate:
Real Time 431
Bill Maher: In order to fix climate we have to fix our democracy first.
(Al Gore seemed to agree.)

Tell me... How do you expect to control the climate???

After you explain that, then explain how you expect to control the orbit of the planet...

Or it's rotation...

:D

And if a woman CHOOSES to be, that is her right..

She should be able to without being attacked and denigrated by your moronic Dumbocrats..

THAT's the point you don't get..

And THAT'S why ya'all continue to lose election after election after election...

And Trump merchandise is made where? In Oz? A Republican who accuses Democrats of catering to "the Wall Street crowd" is blowing Cuban cigar smoke up your ass. Ask any of the several billionaires in Trump's cabinet.

the millennials who whine about an inability to pay back student loans no one forced them to borrow,

Well, if they didn't go to school, they'd be dumb, and susceptible to Republican argument, so I guess the GOP is against affordable education for a reason.

women who look at child-bearing principally as a bad career move,

Barefoot and pregnant, that's what they outa be.

and people who are being asked to surrender their freedom of choice and their vote in exchange for a promise to be taken care of from the cradle to the grave.

No, better to fixate on pre-cradle humans, and ensure that undesirables make it to the grave sooner. When the 'choice' is between food or medicine, it doesn't feel much like 'freedom'.
When the option in the voting booth is between 'coverage' and 'die quickly', the choice is easy.

So dead on ballz accurate, it's scary....

There are lots of reasons the partisan division has become so lopsided in favor of the GOP. The Democrats and their friends in the government departments of elite universities and on the editorial desk at the New York Times will say it's because the legislative district maps are drawn unfairly, because the votes of non-whites are suppressed in the South and in rural areas, and just about any other excuse they can think of to suggest the Republicans are cheating. In truth, the voters just aren't buying any more what the Democrats have to sell.
https://www.usnews.com/opinion/thomas-jefferson-street/articles/2017-08-07/jim-justices-party-switch-is-the-latest-sign-the-democrats-are-in-trouble

Yeerp... That's it in a nutshell..

Patriotic Americans are simply not buying what the Democrats are selling..

Whether they call it a New Deal, Big Government, A Great Society or a Better Deal..

It's the same old schtick wrapped up a new label.. But it's still the same old tired crap that Americans have bought into in the past only to be scammed and conned and disappointed...

Thar's a new sheriff in town... And patriotic Americans love 'im!!

Once again, the NY GRIME has egg on it's face, pushing "fake" news from a "suppressed" report that was "leaked"... :D

I promise not to throw it back in your face... :D

U.S. Job Openings Surge to Record in Sign of Robust Labor Demand
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-08-08/job-openings-in-u-s-surged-to-record-6-16-million-in-june

Making America Great Again... :D

Admit to reality...

President Trump is doing a LOT better job than ya'all thought possible... :D

Since no one wants to step up... Might as well be me... :D

Yes, a very few do actually do that..

But the vast majority wallow in hysterical fear mongering and are not slapped down by rank and file Left Wingers, as they should be...

If that WERE to happen, if rank and file Left Wingers, including Weigantians, WOULD slap down those moron fear-monger'ers, I wouldn't have to post so much about the subject...

Which also describes Democrats perfectly..

So the *ONLY* logical position is to NOT be party to EITHER Party....

No.

It is necessary to take action now, as ending the still increasing levels of pollution, AND decreasing them from current levels are both processes that will take years.

The longer it takes, the higher the risk and the cost.

Climate scientists are actually cautious with the terms they use, and condemn those who present the threat as looming so near in the future that there is no point in acting to prevent it.

A

I'm sure that is one reason, but financial interests do sway many as neil pointed out, not to mention that susceptibility to misinformation, ignorance and plain old stupidity are factors in many cases... or the combination of some or all five reasons.

A

Would you agree that those on the Left who scream hysterically about the imminent destruction of the planet are NOT doing your cause any favors by being so inaccurately hysterical??